Jack and Jill Politics - Latest Comments in About MLK being a Black Republican…

Re: About MLK being a Black Republican…

Blackie — Mon, 28 Jul 2008 06:34:55 -0000

A Black person being Republican is like a chicken favoring Harland Sanders. But don't feel so bad--I'm not that much in love w/ the Democrats, either. GOP--Grand Order of Pigs..

Re: About MLK being a Black Republican…

msmartin — Mon, 07 Jul 2008 20:28:19 -0000

Yet you align with them.

Re: About MLK being a Black Republican…

Tish — Mon, 07 Jul 2008 18:58:19 -0000

I stand corrected. Columbus day is a holiday as well. Thank you.

Re: About MLK being a Black Republican…

msmartin — Mon, 07 Jul 2008 18:41:39 -0000

I know I can't wait to join!

Re: About MLK being a Black Republican…

afroacademic — Mon, 07 Jul 2008 18:34:00 -0000

Do you mean Federal? Because if so I think only Washington and Columbus have days as well.

Re: About MLK being a Black Republican…

afroacademic — Mon, 07 Jul 2008 18:31:45 -0000

Sorry to jump in but as a young academic in training I must interject.

This country will never truly move forward until this county heals the old wounds, which yes are centered on race. Race, as it has historically been known in the US, is a construct of legalistic and social making. Known as the "unthinking decision" race was codified into law and order during the infancy of the colonies.

The central conversation of race is so deeply rooted in our collective historical memory that it refuses excavation, but what I've seen in the classroom recently gives me faith that the future may hold an honest dialogue about these central issues.

However, politically: as long as one of our two parties hangs onto the legacy of the southern strategy and can ignore the actual concerns of blacks there can and will not be any movement. Perhaps as conservatism goes into bankruptcy in the coming years a new ideal will form which can free the Republican party from its tarnished past. But until then Black Republicans must ask themselves if 80% of the black community is just crazy in their distrust of said party?

The problem is that rather than thinking about what the party could be for blacks, the party (and far too many black Republicans) think the problem is with blacks. No thank you.

In the end the Republicans bought their racial problems to themselves. Don't expect black folks to come half way when the offending party won't move an inch.

Re: About MLK being a Black Republican…

msmartin — Mon, 07 Jul 2008 17:43:16 -0000

You spelled exclusive wrong.

Re: About MLK being a Black Republican…

msmartin — Mon, 07 Jul 2008 17:41:42 -0000

And Val, D is entitled to his position as a person of any color but I don't won't to hear the opinion of someone representing as black when they are white and coming from a different place.

Re: About MLK being a Black Republican…

msmartin — Mon, 07 Jul 2008 17:37:54 -0000

Val,

I thought you were gone, but since you're not let me help you. This conversation is a long standing conversation between me and D (and others) and it is about dishonesty.

I don't know what color you are and don't care. In fact, color means nothing me until it is used against me. I too wish for a perfect world were it doesn't matter, but such isn't the case. I have been moved to speak out for mine at times during this campaign - sorry you haven't or uncomfortable in others doing so.

Your party affiliation is also your choice and means nothing to me until you use color as the black conservative Republicans have in conjunction with promoting the Republican party platform which is not inclusive of African Americans sugar coat it is as you wish (you too D).

It is not my desire to go in to detail to inform you about a series of conversations that you apparently haven't been privy to because by your own admission, you haven't been around because you're so tired of the race thing, but D represents as black conservative but has never ever been offended by anything that is a clear affront to African Americans and only repeats the meme of the conservative right (with hardly an intelligble position might I add).

I wish race didn't matter, but it does, America won't let you forget it.

May I suggest, in the future that you get the background before you insert yourself into an ongoing conversation.

Re: About MLK being a Black Republican…

Val2 — Mon, 07 Jul 2008 17:22:39 -0000

nice pic btw msmartin. looks good.

Re: About MLK being a Black Republican…

Val2 — Mon, 07 Jul 2008 17:20:41 -0000

msmartin. please stop it. how disrespectful is this? Where is this conversation going? To question someone's color? Even if D was of another color or race, what does that mean? He is not entitled to his opinion? Or are blacks only allowed to think one way about everything? Is there a "black" test somewhere that we should all be taking? I am sorry and I know your question is not directed at me but I have four kids and the thought of someone attacking them because they think differently or subscribe to a different party affiliation or if they simply have another way of thinking - - - they could be perceived as not 'black enough' what is that?

I am offended for D. C’mon all - we are better than this. What can we possibly expect to achieve by this statement? See . . . that is what I get for coming back to read when i said i would drop off for a while.

Blessings to you msmartin.

Re: About MLK being a Black Republican…

Coby_D — Mon, 07 Jul 2008 17:08:08 -0000

You want to continue on that childish line of attack, come over to my blog.

Or, hell, if you're close enough, I'm in DC Monday-Friday.

Re: About MLK being a Black Republican…

msmartin — Mon, 07 Jul 2008 17:04:09 -0000

You are not black - we've been over that before too!

Re: About MLK being a Black Republican…

RonnieB — Mon, 07 Jul 2008 16:45:22 -0000

The Republican National Committee on Jesse Helms:

"The Republican Party has lost a true champion in the passing of Jesse Helms, but it could be no more fitting that we begin the celebration of his life on Independence Day. His patriotic spirit and dedication to the tenets of our great Party will be remembered and idolized long after our mourning has ended, as will his contributions to the state of North Carolina, the United States Senate, and the many charitable causes he supported. We keep his family in our prayers and keep his conservative ideals with us always."

Part of that "spirit" and "dedication" is clear in one of Helms' many racist comments:

"The Negro cannot count forever on the kind of restraint that's thus far left him free to clog the streets, disrupt traffic, and interfere with other men's rights." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesse_Helms

Or this little gem:

"Crime rates and irresponsibility among Negroes are a fact of life which must be faced." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesse_Helms

That last one made in 1981.

What a great party for Black people!

Re: About MLK being a Black Republican…

Mosesmalone — Mon, 07 Jul 2008 16:42:03 -0000

These NBRA guys are just in for themselves. Like i said before these are educated people with the knowlege of the history of both party. They know that the attitude of the national republican party toward black people is "srew them", so they have to spread lies to attrack black people to their party. And they doing it the year that the presidential candidat of the democratic party is an african american, which is not very smart. If it was true that MLK was a republican why are is wife and children supporting democrates?? Why is the national republican party not using the MLK legacy to attract black people? does the republican party even care about attracting black people? I'm not saying that the democratic party is right on all the issue but if i was a black person coming from another planet i would find very intersting that all black congressman and women are democrats.
You can't make your voice heard by been excluded in the decision making. The democratic party will not solve the problem of black( but at least it give black the power to be heard and bring their concerns on the national scene.
It's 2008 and while the democratic party is pushing its first african american to the presidency of the USA(not Dominican republic or haiti, USA), the republican candidat is going to Memphis to apologize for not voting for MLK's birth. And this why black people unapologetically vote democrat.

Re: About MLK being a Black Republican…

Slave Revolt — Mon, 07 Jul 2008 16:21:37 -0000

Val, my point is that the propensity to be a Tom is rooted in illegitimate hierarchies that are predicated on wealth, race, class, gender, religion, and tradition. My comments transcended mere racial considerations. However, truth be told, with whom and with what one identifies, what one's goals are--these say a lot about folk. And we cannot escape the judgement of our fellow human beings.

I would just say that we should approach our relationships and our goals with respect to both Jesus and Dr. King---as well as Gandi, John Brown, Walter Ruther, Mother Jones and others. Don't know all these names--do a google, educate yourself, expand your horizons.

We need to question these hierarchies--and if they cannot be rationally justified, then we should work to dismantle them and erect something better in their place.

Meritocracy is fine--but we need truely equal opprotunity to compete on a just playing field from the start.

To settle for less is, well, something that a Tom would want.

("Aunt Jemimah don't like Uncle Ben" Does anyone here remember where this line comes from?)

Re: About MLK being a Black Republican…

Coby_D — Mon, 07 Jul 2008 15:39:49 -0000

I'm going to bring this full circle, and then I'm done with this particular thread:

I'm black. I'm conservative. The two are not mutually exculsive. If people can't deal with that, that's on them.

Nothing about this discussion is helping to win the War on Terror, lower the price of gas, or fix the economy.

There are much more important things that we could be discussing besides the sins of conservatism and why black Republicans/conservatives don't do what other blacks think they should.

If everyone is as tired as the "politics of the past" as they claim to be, start with letting this go.

Re: About MLK being a Black Republican…

Coby_D — Mon, 07 Jul 2008 15:32:52 -0000

Thanks, Val. Don't stay gone long.

Re: About MLK being a Black Republican…

RonnieB — Mon, 07 Jul 2008 15:29:18 -0000

And where are those Black Republicans when their party needs to be dealt with when it comes to minorities? They pull a vanishing act.

But if Democrats go too far on affirmative action or some other issue that unnerves White men, Black Republicans are barking louder than anyone.

Colin Powell called out his party for this. No other Black Republican has had the courage.

Re: About MLK being a Black Republican…

Val2 — Mon, 07 Jul 2008 15:25:50 -0000

D - It is okay to disagree. Don't fall for the hype and no need to go on the defensive. Hold to your ideals (even though we don't agree on most politically) but that is your right. I ain't mad at you. It is strange to me that folks are associating political affiiliation with a persons view on minorities. One has nothing to do with the other and I am speaking from personal experience. If we are going down that road -- how about views minorities have of each other? Anyway. I gotta shut it down. All this racial baggage is giving me a headache. Will check back in a few weeks.

Re: About MLK being a Black Republican…

Michelle — Mon, 07 Jul 2008 15:23:25 -0000

D, as the person who was involved in that discussion and to whom you were replying with that comment you quoted, I would like to point out that that statement from you only came after I pushed you pretty hard. I wonder if there are other comments where you do this (or something more analytical even) -- and if so, did other people have to work like I did to get you to say what you are claiming full credit for saying. (I don't know bc I have not been closely reading your comments/discussions over time).

Which doesn't take away from the fact that you wrote what you quoted above in the open thread last night, or from the second part of that comment which to me was way more interesting and less rhetorical.

I just want to add a little context as one of the others involved in that discussion.

Re: About MLK being a Black Republican…

RonnieB — Mon, 07 Jul 2008 15:21:24 -0000

Poor effort at a rebuttal, D. Nonetheless, there are two--maybe three--Republicans
who are Black that have had the courage to speak well of the entire Black
community, instead of either showing gratuitous contempt or being indifferent..

I'd say Gen. Powell, S.O.S. Rice and (of late) Michael Steele. The rest seem
to be too afraid of losing their "I'm-different-than-them" standing.

When folks like Shannon Reeves are more representative of Black Repubs,
will they gain respect--not just from other Blacks, but from very Whites they
try and appeal to.

Re: About MLK being a Black Republican…

Val2 — Mon, 07 Jul 2008 15:16:29 -0000

"We all have the capacity to Tom from time-to-time---by dint of the fact that we don't research issues, and we have to ingratiate ourselves toward more powerful economic forces in order to merely survive. Again, when you have human oppression and hierarchies of privilege you will have Toms."

I read this post 6 times and this is why I stopped visiting JackandJillPolitics lately. Jack - you know I love you and I especially love your posts Rikyah but I just can't agree with this nonsense. I understand history. I understand all that but where are we going as a nation of people? When can we get past the obsession of seeing color first before we identify ourselves as Americans? Or when can we get past putting party affiliation before our country? D - If you lean toward the Republican Party because they represent "most" of your ideals -- good for you.

Will stop by in a few weeks when we get back on the track we were during the primary stage when we were more focused on getting Obama elected and having conversations on moving this country forward together as a people vs. being bogged down in race. I am so ready to turn the page. I fully understand it won't be easy but holding to this type of mindset is not a part of any solution . . . I am ready to set all that aside and move to the next level. Later All

Re: About MLK being a Black Republican…

Coby_D — Mon, 07 Jul 2008 13:34:25 -0000

...as opposed to.....democratic conservatives?

I get it now; you don't like me. That's okay. However, it must have been past your bedtime when I posted this yesterday:

"You want me to fall on the sword for the right wing and call them bad for throwing gays, blacks, and whoever they need to under the bus? Fine; bad right wing."

I've repeatedly said that the Republican Party has been suspect-hell, more than suspect-in dealing with minorities. I know that. It's not of my doing. It is what it is.

Re: About MLK being a Black Republican…

msmartin — Mon, 07 Jul 2008 13:05:46 -0000

I've been reading D's comments for months and I've never once read anything that he wrote against anything that affects minorities. He is also not honest about Republican conservatives and the way they view minorities.