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It's pretty straight forward for me. The original sin will always be 9/11. That didn't give the US a right to attack Iraq. Was there Al Qaeda in Iraq before 9/11? No.
"9/11" did give us a right to pursue Osama Bin Laden, literally to "the ends of the Earth," and George W. Bush (in concert with John McCain) totallly FUGGED that up.
Iraq has been a huge distraction--more tied to nepotistical revenge (W avenging his daddy more than acting in the best interests of this country---a truly retarded #$#$#).
Bush and the republicans may have dismissed Osama as a minor detail (which is totally contradicting their being SO DAYUM patriotic)...but this country's history and reputation for being an upright-"Don't fu#k with US" type of country--has been greatly diminished and left us in a state of disrepair. Some days, I'm shocked by how the republicans and the Bush Admin have "pulled the wool" over so many eyes.
Make no mistake about it: Until Osama Bin Laden (and Al Sawahiri) are either captured or killed, the US wll be (and should be) considered a "punk" nation. Long after we are all fish-feed, history books will wonder why it took us so long to capture pr kill the Al Qaeda leadership. This country's honor will not be restored until we do.
So I wouldn't reduce it to an "Iraq-for-Afghanistan" troop swap. As Big Daddy Kane would say, I see it as "Getting the Job done." This country has unfinished business. Let it be done. Amen.
Question for everyone - why hasn't there been any investigations into the various artwork, artifacts and historical works stolen from the Iraqi Museums and palaces? Iraq had some of the most priceless artifacts in the world...its largely thought by the academic community, as well as Christian academics, to be the birthplace of civilization...the Garden of Eden was in Iraq! Where are all of those pieces of history??
What most people don't realize about the recent uptick in violence in Afghanistan is...that it happens every year. The Taliban come down from the mountains in the spring/summer and slug it out, only to retreat back there in the winter/fall. It's been going on since we went in there in 2001 (numbers here).
The only people it's new to are the ones who haven't really been paying attention in the first place.
And what is it with people and this surge? I really want Obama to start wearing a, "the surge worked" t-shirt so people in lala land can stop getting their panties in a bunch. Correct me if I'm wrong, but, I believe Obama's whole argument is that we should have kept our focus on Afghanistan, to begin with instead of going to war in Iraq, and we need additional troops there to finish what we started. I think that it is questionable whether we will be able to, but are you trying to suggest that we should continue what we have been doing for the past couple of years?
I'm just trying to understand your reasoning, other than the fact that you don't think Obama knows what he is talking about.
The first thing is that because of the deployment cycle for Iraq, ultimately a unit will leave there and-probably within a few months of returning stateside-be tapped for duty in Afghanistan. That's just the nature of the beast, and it would happen regardless of who's president. So for people to get upset about an "Iraq for Afghanistan troop swap (as Jack put it)" is really a waste of time.....because essentially, that's exactly what it will be.
Again, it would happen with McCain, Obama, Barr, or McKinney (hell, or with Nader).
The second thing I'm saying is that the uptick in violence is something that goes on every year during this time....but it's always reported as a "Taliban resurgence." "Taliban thawout" is probably more accurate.
The US military once operated on the premise that we could fight two major wars at the same time (mostly during the buildup in the 80's). That changed during the 90's (and I will leave the partisianship out of it). We can't do that now; that's a fact, and anyone who can't acknowledge that is stupid. Pre-Iraq, could we? Not sure, but no one intended for Iraq to be a major war.
And I also agree with you on your second point. I guess I'm just wondering why both of these conflicts were so poorly executed/planned. and I think it is the fact that people in the Bush administration thought this was going to be an easy victory (whatever that means). I think some people, i.e. Rumsfeld, thought that this thing would be wrapped up in six months or so. I think that if anybody would have suggested that we would have the same troop presence in Iraq that we do now, they would have been laughed out of the room. So yeah, that's what makes me angry. If you are going to topple a leader and take over a country, you need to at least have a realistic idea of what you are getting yourself into, and its clear that they didn't. They underestimated the political/cultural tension in the country, and we are paying dearly for it.
But my whole point is, what do we do now? I think whoever is going to be President in the next term is going to be screwed either way. I think the violence in Iraq will continue because a) they don't want us to be there, and b) people are struggling to get power so they will try to get rid of their enemies, which means our leaving will put certain groups at risk. And, I also think it is a toss up in Afghanistan. even if we get more troops over there, it still has the potential to blow up in our faces. I'm just depressed by our prospects all around.
Violence in Iraq will continue whether we're there or not. I don't think there's much "blow up" potential in Afghanistan anymore, as it will quiet down like it normally does.
I actually think we need a larger humanitarian effort there, as opposed to a bigger military footprint. We can bomb Afghanistan flat and it won't make that much of a difference (there's not so much infrastructure there that we can't quickly rebuild), but if we go bombing poppy fields and not replacing them with something the farmers can benefit from, we'll have the Iraqi insurgency again.
Any nation that harbors Bin Laden (and Al Qaeda leadership) would need to fear the onslaught of every weapon this nation possesses...what's the ***king purpose of being a superpower if you can not deter nation-states, terrorist groups or individuals from attacking you?
This is not about being macho...this is about seeing human beings leap from 100-story buildings, falling to their deaths rather than suffering through a burning inferno of jet fuel...it's about human flesh disintegrating in the collapse of those towers. I have not forgotten, nor will I ever forget it.
I'm not about to allow Bush's war in Iraq distract from the underlying, unfinished business that this country faces with the culprits of 9/11.
It's like Pearl Harbor happened and we've just ignored the Japanese for nearly seven years, wasting lives and resources in an ill-conceived war that has greatly damaged our alliances.
The world would have "had our backs" if we had stayed true to the key objective--the total annihilation of Al Qaeda--even if it meant chasing Bin Laden into Pakistan.
As for invading Saudi Arabia? Sure, the price of gas would be $20-a-gallon, but If Bin Laden were being harbored by Saudi Arabia, abso-__ing-lutely.
Chasing down Bin Laden in Afghanistan is hardly gonna stop people from attacking the US. This dont-mess-with-us-or-we'll-anhilliate-you mentality is precise;y why the US is between a rock and a hard place. Al-qaeda is a symptom of the problem facing the US: global hegemony and disregard for other peoples right to sovereignty is exactly why people like Al-qaeda want to attack the US. Stop propping up dictators in Saudi Arabia. Stop vetoing every UN resolution that attempts to determine Palestinian right to a state. Stop assasinating leaders in third world countries. Stop BOMBING civilians!!
The "war on terror" is a horrible misnomer. Terrorism mind you, is a tool used to fight wars not an object of defeat. Conventional military solutions are completely misdirected in Afghanistan. And the greatest hypocrisy of this "war on terror" is that if anything it has given Al-Qaeda their greatest recruitment tool ever. While the US might not have faced an attack after 9/11 your allies in this "war" have suffered horribly. London, Madrid, and lets not forget Pakistan. Pakistani civilians have paid a high price for being forced to fight this war while the US drops bombs from the sky.
I honestly believe (out of desperation) that Obama has to buy into the "war on terror" rhetoric but his political history and his nuanced understanding of political issues lead me to believe that he realizes the futility of a military solution. His popularity abroad is not because hes young. or black or speaks really well as the MSM would have you believe. It's because he actually has a brain that can process grey, and multi-faceted issues. You should work on that. I am very glad you are not president of the US (though the current one is no better).
But THAT would have made us no new friends.
To my knowledge, the US have never dropped a single bomb on Pakistan. Our troops have not been allowed (to cross into Paskistani territory) beyond Tora Tora, as far as I know. Let's get our fact straight.
During the primaries, Barack was lambasted for suggesting that he would go into Pakistan to capture/kill BIn Laden--and I'm still applauding him on that declaration.
Bush, McCain and Clinton criticized him for being too much of a hawk and not understanding the precarious position that Musharraf was facing due to the extremists in his country.
I am an intellectual. I like to think that I can "process grey, and multi-faceted issues," too...but sometimes, you do not have to be an intellectual to address issues like these issues. All an issue like this requires is common sense. The answer is simple, "You attack us, you will get ganked--we will hunt you to the ends of the earth. If martyrdom is what you seek, you will receive it."
Don't get me wrong, I feel your concerns about American hegemony and Jeremiah Wright's postulating "We brought this on ourselves," but at the end of the day, THERE IS NO EXCUSE for 9/11. Call it what you want: "War on Terror," "Rightgeous Jihad," call it whatever you want. I'm never gonna sit back and say that we deserved to see people jumping off of buildings.
Like John Kerry tried to do in 2004, you can reduce "9/11" to a criminal act--deserving a policing/CIA style action more so than a military/war activity against a nation state...I'm FINE with that too. This remains unfinished business--I don't care how it's handled, but it's still got to be handled.
I am not for dropping bombs on innocent civilians...I am for capturing or killing Osama Bin Laden (and the Al Qaeda Leadership). It's no different than the way that Simon Wiesenthal and the Nazi Hunters are still scouring South America for concentration camp -Gestapho types who escaped Germany after WWII (sixty years later).
History demands that we close this chapter--whether you like it or not.
Now we already have tactical control over the valley, but that is strictly from Air Support and the ability to control the high ground. However within the Valley Region in the East we need more troops on the ground to draw the taliban out of the local villages. Putting 3-4 thousand more troops in the Valley would give the U.S. complete and total control of the ground war in the Eastern Zone.
I wasn't deployed to the south near Helman and Patika, but most of my company who did get stationed in the south would agree, that place more troops in the southern zone would help with the ground war.
The Air Force and Army Air Support is awesome. Those guys do a spectacular job with securing the high points and giving us air support during major operations. The Air Force and Army do a great job on that front, but we need at least another 20-30 thousand in Afghanistan. I want to go back, because I believe in that mission. We can actually claim victory in Afghanistan.
Also...
If you would like to send care packages to troops in Afghanistan shoot me an email at justinlpugh@gmail.com to I can give you the address for troops working hard to defend not only our freedom, but the freedom of those in Afghanistan.
Sorry if the post seemed rushed...