DISQUS

Jack and Jill Politics: Afternoon Open Thread

  • lamh32 · 1 month ago
    Michael Basiden was talking bout Spike Lee and Tyler Perry. I was gonna post my own words about it, but after reading the following post from a blog I freqent, I agreed with him so much, that I'm just gonna post it here (h/t Smoothlikeremy)

    Smooth Like Remy
    One thing about social media is that you find out pretty quickly that many times there are opinions, even within demographics which you identify with, that strongly diverge at times over things you might think have close to a consensus view. I for one have been a fan of Tyler Perry for a very long time. Certainly long before he started doing movie and was just doing plays. His material was always funny and over the top but at its root he always had positive messages in his work.

    When he started doing movies and TV I liked some of his work and didn't care for other parts but I still recognized the messages he was trying to send. So much of his films are about wounded and "damaged" blacks and other minorities finding a way to make themselves whole again, usually with a touch of Christianity involved.

    Now is that for everybody? I imagine not but I also don't think he makes movies for "everybody". Tyler Perry makes movies and TV shows for the people who will enjoy them and judging by his success so far that is a substantial number of people.

    But there are a group of what I would describe as bourgeois ass black folks who seem to think that because Tyler Perry isn't making THEIR type of movie then he should be derided or torn down. That is the biggest bunch of bullshit I have ever seen and it burns me up to no end. Hell I don't like all of Michael Bey's movies. Does that mean I think he shouldn't be able to make them? But to hear these folks tell it Perry is "harming" the black community because he includes over the top characters like "Madea" in his projects. This shit would be funny if it wasn't so pathetic. Its like they can't see past their own concern trolling to notice that "Madea" is just the honey to bring folks in before they get a good message from the rest of the show.

    The latest clown, and I do mean clown, to trip on Perry is Spike Lee. Lee had the nerve to call what Perry is doing coonery, I guess he is now the voice of black upper crust or some shit. But its amazing that the same asshole that made "School Daze" and "Do The Right Thing" could accuse anybody on earth of coonery. Oh I guess we are supposed to forget about all those Jordan commercials too? Negro please. Girl 6? C'mon Son! Get the fuck outta here with that bullshit.

    The truth is, and I hope most folks can see this, that Lee is mad because Perry is getting shine that he thinks is reservered for "guys like him". I think Perry's response is absolutely perfect and I hope he has a face to face "conversation" with Lee real soon to see if he has the nuts to talk that coonery shit to the man's face. Somehow I doubt it.

    By the way, somebody should tell Spike Lee that real coonery is running to the media to hate on another black man who is just trying to do their own thing. Seriously.
  • itgurl_29 · 1 month ago
    Tyler Perry's an ignorant buffoon who makes movies for ignorant buffoons. His movies are straight coonery. If that were a white director making those movies, those same black folks running to see Madea would be crying foul.

    That said, if Tyler wants to make movies for ignorant black folk, that's his right. But the problem is that we have such little representation on film that Tyler Perry's garbage is basically all we've got.

    So if black people in Hollywood who are behind the camera and have actual talent want to see someone other than Perry shine, they are going to have to step up their business game. Tyler Perry has no artistic talent. He can't write for shit and his movies are poorly directed and shot. But what he does have is a business sense that no one out there can touch right now.
  • Town · 1 month ago
    I can't hate on Tyler Perry for making "buffoonery" if black folks are the ones going to see the buffoonery.

    I don't know whether TP's stuff is coonery or not because I've never see a TP production. I guess TP has a right to churn out coonery just like those white guys who put on any movie starring Jack Black or Anna Farris.

    My problem is this: how come nobody else is financing a studio? Why isn't Spike financing his own studio? Or hitting up Will, Denzel, Oprah, Halle, etc. for financing so quality stuff can be put out?

    How come BET and TV One arent' producing their own original programming for dramas? Trashy reality shows don't count.

    Why do black oriented movies "need" to be on the big screen? I understand that a big part of the problem is distribution, but can't a quality black movie be put out on DVD? Cuz you know black folks stay buying a DVD. Or is it that we need that Oscar validation?

    If some chicken chomping rapper can put out a crappy movie on DVD, why can't a quality black film maker put his/her stuff on DVD, bypass the middle man and go straight to the people?

    Like they said last night, most whitefolks don't even know who a Madea or Mr. Brown is but Tyler Perry is getting paid. Most whitefolks don't know a thing about Televisa or Bollywood either but those folks are getting straight paid too.

    Instead of bemoaning the fact that Lily is the only black person on Y&R or why there are no black people on General Hospital except the fat surly nurse why can't somebody put on a telenovela-style drama for black people by black people instead of begging CBS or ABC to do it for us?

    That's all I had to say.
  • rikyrah · 1 month ago
    I'm with you, Town. There's NO REASON why Perry should be alone. But, guess what, Perry was willing to put HIS MONEY WHERE HIS MOUTH IS. The rest of them aren't willing to roll their money and take a risk.

    House of Payne started slow and has built itself pretty well. I used to tape it for me no-cable having sister, so I watched a great deal of it.

    I have never seen his plays in person, and only seen part of a play on DVD - I don't think I'll ever go see his plays.

    I think Spike is attacking him for the content, and who Tyler Perry is. I think there's sort of a intellectual snobbishness going on here. Spike is a serious guy who actually went to school. He thinks of film as craft; art almost. Spike is a 3rd generation Morehouse man, and went one of the top film schools in the country. And here comes a play guy thinking he's a filmmaker.

    I remember Spike being harsh on the young man who did The Inkwell; told him that maybe he needed to go to school and actually LEARN filmmaking before he attempted another film. So, yes, I think it's the art part of it; the filmmaking part of it.

    there is no doubt that Tyler Perry's audience was not being served, if they were, there would have been another Tyler Perry before Tyler Perry.

    that said, I'm scared to death of Perry getting ' for Colored Girls'..I'll say it - I don't think he has the talent to do it justice, and for him to bastardize it and coon it would be unforgiveable.

    I don't dislike Perry because he put his OWN money where his mouth is. I never ever would have thought the Black person to fund and build their own studio would be a Christian Play Producer from the 'Chitlin' Circuit'. I believe there are others, who could have pooled their money, if they had been serious about controlling the product. But, that takes entrpreneurial risk. They didn't need to start with their own material; they could have done it small, straight to videos, or coupled with a cable channel. Why hasn't anyone Black hooked up with BET or TVOne to produce 'Lifetime'ish movies based on the novels of successful Black writers? Start on the small screen and build it up. But, they haven't done it, so why blame Perry for making the risk -WITH HIS OWN MONEY?

    Most of the fiction I read is by Black authors about Black people, with dimensions. these authors have a built in base. how come BET or TVOne haven't done a deal with Beverly Jenkins the same way that Lifetime has with Nora Roberts? Nobody is stopping them.

    WHY is a show like LINCOLN HEIGHTS on ABC FAMILY? are you going to tell me that IT has a bigger audience than BET or TVOne.

    look at all these smaller cable channels that have been producing ORIGINAL PROGRAMMING for forever and a day - how come BET or TVOne don't do the same?

    the Nigerians have a THRIVING film industry, and nobody Black here has found a way to hook up with them?

    Telemundo and Univision can run those telenovelas, -originally produced and advertised right here in the US ofA, and BET/TVOne can't do the same?

    all I hear is excuses.

    Perry PUT HIS MONEY WHERE HIS MOUTH IS. now, dislike him or not, his critics need to PONY UP.
  • Miranda · 1 month ago
    And very well said!
  • Ladyvenoms · 1 month ago
    *hides her copy of "why did i get married".




    dang...
  • CPL · 1 month ago
    Hey, "Why Did I get Married" is one of Tyler Perry's best movies.

    Instead of Spike and Tyler sniping at one another, they should be joining forces to produce movies that will be supported by us and everyone else.

    My only complaint with Tyler's movies is that there is always a beaten down sista who starts to get her act together in time for Prince Charming to come into the picture. That's a nice fantasy, and one I've often indulged in, but the reality is, we women need to be working on ourselves and be content in the knowledge that if we get a significant other; that's cool, or if we gotta travel alone, that's cool, too.

    I'd like to have a man. But if I'm destined to be alone, I need to know in my heart that it's okay - that women are validated as WOMEN, whether we're in relationships or NOT.

    As for Spike's criticisms, I'd had more respect if he'd gone to Tyler mano-a-mano, instead of airing that shyt on TV, so he can give the wingnuts something to flare up amongst ourselves.
  • lamh32 · 1 month ago
    Can you be anymore condescending? So anyone who enjoys Tyler Perry's movies are "ignorant buffoons"?

    I'm sorry, but I know a good number of people who go to see Tyler Perry's movies and his plays, and they are far from ignorant.

    It's people like you who need to get over yourselves. The way we react to the arts (music, tv, film) and the disciplines of art (comedy, paint, drama, etc) are subjective.

    You don't like Tyler Perry's movies, fine. But that does not make those who do "ignorant buffoons"
  • Miranda · 1 month ago
    High falutin knee-grows have deemed themselves the experts on what is "art"...dont pay them any attention. Pay your $8 to see what you want to see...fuck them.
  • itgurl_29 · 1 month ago
    Oh, please. His movies are straight up coonery. Period. You cannot tell me you'd still be getting your laugh on if a white person made those films. No way. We'd be ready to protest.
  • Guns3000 · 1 month ago
    EXACTAMUNDO, we will degrade ourselves ALL DAY but let a white man do it and there is hell to pay. You have educated negroes on this board saying TPs movies are good and we are overrreacting. If Madea was made by a white man there would be petitions everywhere in the black blogosphere. And then some peeps on this board are screaming about racism and stereotypes every chance they get. They should be ashamed of themselves.

    If a Jewish director made a movie perpetuating Jewish stereotypes he would shunned
    If a Hispanic director made a movIe perpetuating Hispanic stereotypes he would shunned.
    If a Black director makes a movie perpetuating black stereotypes not only is he not shunned he is APPLAUDED by black people. SMH

    And I'm supposed to support TP because "he used his own money" and it's a "black business." Nonsense, that's the same logic black rappers use to call black women BITCHES AND HOES on records. "You are stopping a black man from getting paid" BULLSHIT. PAID AT WHAT COST?
  • itgurl_29 · 1 month ago
    Exactly. One character I find even more offensive than Madea is Mr. Brown. Here he is:

    http://static.reelmovienews.com/images/gallery/...

    Now, he is a bubbling fool. Can't speak English properly and his speech and mannerisms are right out of minstrel shows. These same people on here calling me a highfalutin negro would be calling for protests and writing letters boycotting products if Brett Ratner or Ron Howard or any other white director created and directed this character. You can't tell me different.

    People on here are giving Tyler a pass for this coonery bullshit simply because he's black.

    Spike is right, period.
  • msmartin · 1 month ago
    Have you ever seen a Tyler Perry "movie"?
  • eclecticbrotha · 1 month ago
    Nice rant that I completely disagree with. Apparently you fell asleep during "School Daze" and "Do the Right thing" because you obviously missed the social commentary in each. I also notice your sourced comment ignored "Malcolm X." If you want to defend Tyler Perry then fine, but you're delirious if you think his movies compare to what Spike Lee has in his reportoire. I have enjoyed Perry's movies myself but his TV projects are definitely God Awful coonery.
  • miss_opinion · 1 month ago
    Judging from what Tyler Perry has said , he dresses up as woman because he feels you have to bring in the people via low rent humor. He basically is in favor of making an ass of himself so you can get the bigger message which is self improvement and never giving up. I can respect what he is trying to do, I do believe his films are getting better. However, I still can't stomach Medea. It just comes off as well "coonery." Bringing down the people just to get them in the door to give them the bigger message.
  • Webb · 1 month ago
    By the way, somebody should tell Spike Lee that real coonery is running to the media to hate on another black man who is just trying to do their own thing. Seriously.

    Yeah, i'm definitely having problems with airing the "dirty laundry" like this in the MSM. In fairness, Spike started this feud on Ed Gordon's program and Tyler upped-the-ante on 60Minutes. Hmmm, 60Minutes vs. Ed's show? Wonder who got more exposure?

    We're polling on this issue too (on the front page). Some of us are anxiously awaiting Spike's counter-response and looking forward to expanding threads on this issue.

    Will this sh*t get calmed down or will they take it to another level? In the end, is it good for black films?

    Oprah could intervene, but I think she's biased now. Spike had to beg folks like Oprah and Bill Cosby to help him finish X financially.

    Tyler has given both Oprah and her best friend Gayle white Bentley-convertibles...LMAO, yeah, I think Oprah would be biased about this issue.
  • Guns3000 · 1 month ago
    Tyler Perry couldn't hold Spike's jock strap. Spike's movies aren't laughs and giggles. He tries to deliver a message. Spike makes classics Jungle Fever(my favorite), Malcolm X, Four Little Girls, When the Levees Broke
    Spike begged folks because the studio wouldn't give him the money to finish the project properly and he used his own salary do it. That shows me that he really cares about the story.

    "Yeah, i'm definitely having problems with airing the "dirty laundry" like this in the MSM. In fairness"

    I hear some negroes say this and they said the same thing when Bill Cosby was TELLING THE TRUTH. I say screw that air it out put it on front street. One thing I will say if black audiences are paying to see the coonery and buffonery what does that say about us?
  • miss_opinion · 1 month ago
    Disagreeing with another black person is NOT the def. of coonery lol. Lets not try and reinvent what the word means. Spike is airing his strong disagreement with the material. Being a coon is going around and degrading yourself for a dollar or a pat on the head. I disagree with Spike on many issues but he is never acted like a coon.
  • Webb · 1 month ago
    This has nothing to do with "Disagreeing with another black person." This has everything to do with when, where and how you disagree with another black person...in public or private.

    Anytime a black person puts on a show for the sake of Massa (or the MSM), it's a shucking/jiving Coon Show.

    What happens when Spike goes on Morning Joe again? You think that THIS shyt is NOT going to come up? Will he shy away from it, or will he retailate and call Tyler a coon in front of a grinning Joe and Mika? How will he react? Remains to be seen.
  • Guns3000 · 1 month ago
    Pure nonsense, without Spike Lee making it happen for decades Tyler Perry wouldn't have the opportunity to make a movie.
  • Webb · 1 month ago
    Without Spike Lee making it happen for decades Tyler Perry wouldn't have the opportunity to make a movie.

    Far be it for me to "school" you on AA Cinema...I respect Spike for what he has accomplished, but he is NOT the father of AA Cinema that you're making him out to be.

    As far as I'm concerned, the true father of AA Cinema (as we know it) is Melvin Van Peebles. If you knew your history, you would know about Melvin Van Peebles and Sweet Sweetback's Baadasssss Song.

    Because no studio would finance his film, Van Peebles funded the film himself (and in part by a $50,000.00 loan from Bill Cosby), shooting the film independently over a period of 19 days, performing all of his own stunts...Van Peebles not only directed, scripted, and edited the film, but wrote the score and directed the marketing campaign.

    The film, which in the end grossed $10 million, was, among many others, acclaimed by the Black Panthers for its political resonance with the black struggle.


    So for those of us who know our history, we're not buying this bullshyt about Spike being the "Godfather of Black Film" and he certainly does not have the right to be considered the Grand Arbiter of Coonery.
  • CPL · 1 month ago
    Don't forget Gordon Parks - he was more than just an Award winning photographer. While he's known for his connection to "Shaft", he also made that wonderful movie, "The Learning Tree", which was a semi autobiography of Parks' own growing up in the segregated Midwest.

    As you rightfully put it, Melvin Van Peebles, along with Gordon Parks, paved the way for the Spike Lees and Tyler Perrys, so they both owe a debt of gratitude to Van Peebles and Parks.
  • Webb · 1 month ago
    True that...props to Gordon Parks but were you aware...

    According to Melvin Van Peebles, the original production of SHAFT was of a white detective story, but after the success of Sweet Sweetback's Baadasssss Song (1971), the original script was scrapped in favor of an adaptation of Ernest Tidyman's 1970 novel Shaft, which focused on an African-American detective.[1]

    If we really wanted to get deep about it, we could go back to Oscar Micheaux, but i've got to give credit where credit is due.

    MELVIN VAN PEEBLES WAS AND IS THE SHYT.
  • Guns3000 · 1 month ago
    Webb, is that all you got? "If you knew your history" I never called Spike the father of anything. Reading is fundamental. I'm sure the illiteracy rates among Tyler Perry fans are a lot higher since they find humor in black in folks shucking and bucking so much.

    Thanks for the Melvin Van Peebles background. I'm sure Melvin busted his ass so TP could come along and make these soul-planish type of movies. If you are trying to dismiss a 20 year career making classics(Jungle Fever, Malcolm X, When the Levees Broke, etc) to some in the closet director who makes a handful of movies WITH THE SAME DAMN CHARACTER and the same buffonish slapstick shtick there really is no point having this debate. No big deal though right. HE'S GETTIN PAID NIGGA. CHA CHING. You know what they say in Hollywood. If blackman needs a hit you know what does? Put on a dress. Maybe for the next one TP he can borrow one out of your closet?
  • Webb · 1 month ago
    Kneegro please, did you not say, "without Spike Lee making it happen for decades," as if Spike Lee innovated this shyt?

    Then further down the thread, you obsess about Spike Lee's jock strap..."Tyler Perry couldn't hold Spike's jock strap." LMAO, forget about Tyler, YOU'RE THE ONE RIDING SPIKE'S SPIKE TONIGHT, You're all "On-that-Jock" Gunns___, lmao.

    Introducing jock straps and "dresses in the closet" into the thread--you sure you want to go there with WEBB? I just checked my closet. Sorry, no dresses...but I found your girlfriend's ****** in my dresser drawer.
  • Guns3000 · 1 month ago
    What is your sister's panties doing in your dresser drawer?
  • SouthernGirl2 · 1 month ago
    Maybe for the next one TP he can borrow one out of your closet?


    Maybe TP can borrow anyone of the pretty ones in yours?

    No big deal though, right?
  • rikyrah · 1 month ago
    Oscar Micheaux has them all beat, and did it in times that were unimaginable - what he was able to do.
  • Webb · 1 month ago
    Micheaux was the first...but he didn't change the game. There's a reason it's called Show-Business.
    Van Peebles CHANGED the Game, forever and ever, Amen.

    The Poll-of-the-Moment: Spike Lee vs. Tyler Perry - Where do YOU stand?
  • ochyming · 1 month ago
    Soap opera-like art and Microsoft's Windows will sell more than anything with proper value. Because we are all vain and cheap mentally.

    One thing that really stupefies me is how afro-americans ignores its artists with a capital A, i mean is there an engaging middle class?

    Afro-americans or Blacks today equals hip hop ONLY.
    While your culture and contribution to humanity in arts spans a broader spectrum.

    I do not know of any people so ignorant of it own culture.
  • Miranda · 1 month ago
    I completely agree with this assessment.
  • RobM · 1 month ago
    Did anyone read the NYT magazine article on Precious yesterday?
  • Angelar · 1 month ago
    I just did..impressive in my humble opinion.

    think this will be a movie I will pay to see in a public theater instead of waiting for netflix
  • msmartin · 1 month ago
    "By the way, somebody should tell Spike Lee that real coonery is running to the media to hate on another black man who is just trying to do their own thing. Seriously."

    I could not have said it better myself.
  • carolinagirl · 1 month ago
    Hey msmartin! Good to see you!
  • rikyrah · 1 month ago
    hi msmartin,

    I hope you are doing well.
  • Admiral_Komack · 1 month ago
    Hello, MsMartin (waves)!
  • Admiral_Komack · 1 month ago
    I've watched one "Madea" movie halfway through...but I enjoyed it.

    I've bought "Madea" movies as gifts...and they were appreciated and the persons who received them were not "ignorant buffoons".

    I watched the 60 Minutes Tyler Perry interview and was impressed with the man.

    Maybe Spike Lee is jealous.
  • aleth · 1 month ago
    Reid said he is a "strong supporter" of the public option but that is is "not a silver bullet." He said it was a key way to ensure competition among insurers and "to level the playing field."...... Reid noted he had not asked Obama to make the calls.
    -----------------------------------------------------------
    I have a series of questions AS I EXPECT THE NEXT OUTRAGE OF PROGRESSIVEBLOGSHERE PRESIDENTS:

    1. Why is Reid using Obama's language saying "Reid said he is a "strong supporter" of the public option but that is is "not a silver bullet." He said it was a key way to ensure competition among insurers and "to level the playing field.".---- ITS THE DAMN SAME THING OBAMA HAS BEEN SAYING WORD FOR WORD PROGRESSIVEBLOGOSHERE PRESIDENTS.

    2. What is the opt-out and why does Reid say there is a co-op too?

    3. Why hasn't Reid asked the president to make the calls yet? HUMMMMMMMMMMM let me guess Obama will need to make the calls during conference. And Clyburn had it right he said they did not want Obama heavy involved because the congress and senate actually WANT TO DO THEIR JOB. THAT IS, ENSURE THAT THE SEPARATION OF POWER STAYS IN PLAY INSTEAD OF BEING ORDERED AROUND WHICH LEAD TO THE CLINTON FAILURE.

    but i know there is another outrage coming sooooooooon. I hope that Harry Reid is not double crossed and I just want him to get it out of the SENATE. Don't trust him and can someone tell me what is in the opt-out? co-op too?
  • lamh32 · 1 month ago
    Hey guys,

    That Election '08 documentary : For The People is premering on HBO next week. I don't have HBO, so I wish they would show it online too.

    Here's the trailer: http://www.hbo.com/docs/programs/bythepeople/vi...

    OMG!! Ya'll gotta check out the little white kid who was phonebankiing for Obama last year
  • BlackAmericanPrincess · 1 month ago
    I cannot WAIT to see this documentary, my dvr's been set since last week. Little man who was phonebanking for Obama had me DYING laughing, too too cute!
  • morphus · 1 month ago
    For decades the Congress has been the Broken Branch of our Government. Since at least 1995 (and possibly before) Congress has done very little legislating as an independent and co-equal branch of our government. Mostly, the House and Senate have moved in lock-step with GOP Leadership (the Gingrich/DeLay era) or rubber stamped the wishes of a GOP President (the Bush era). The ability of various committees and members to craft legislation and learn to work together has been lost.

    One Thing that is clear about the HRC debate is that Congress is being forced to relearn this skill. It is messy and unfamiliar territory to anybody who does not remember what a functioning Congress looked like. Most Reporters, staffers and Members have never covered or been part of a functional legislative process. The measurement for Legislative success over the last 15+ years has been: is Congress doing or not doing exactly what Leadership and/or the President wants them to do. The current HCR debate can not be measured by that yardstick. This time success will be measure by how well or how poorly Congress crafts Legislation.

    President Obama has given the Legislative Branch his goals and preferences for legislation. He has not given them marching orders--and that is a good thing for our Democracy. Congress will have to sort out the details themselves. It is called Legislation and I for one am glad that this branch of Government is beginning to act like a co-equal part of the Government again. It is also good that President Obama refuses to give into the temptation to tell them exactly what to do. This tough love for the broken branch is way overdue.

    I know that many are so used to the unitary executive meme of the Bush years that they think President Obama must do the same, but from our side. Many are dismayed that he is not using that power to ram through progressive policies and forcing a Democratic Congress to rubber stamp them. While it would make it easier to cover issues and fit them into familiar narrative structure, it would still be wrong.

    Legislation is messy. Congress needs to do its job as a co-equal branch of the Government. The President in our system is not a King. I for one, am glad to see a President willing to let Congress Legislate as a co-equal.

    Regardless of how the HCR debate turns out (and I think it will turn out just fine), this is a good thing.

    Congress has been weak and broken for over twenty years. Fixing Congress is important. I'm glad to see the HCR debate be a step in that direction.

    DailyKos response: Congress' role in health care reform

    http://www.dailykos.com/comments/2009/10/26/041...
  • JeffL · 1 month ago
    Amen. It is another element of Obama's style and yes it is rooted in the community organizer philosophy of enabling others to stand up on their own. He has shown the same approach in working with OAS while dealing with the Honduras coup. He has signaled multilateralism as his approach in a number of international issues.

    The absolute nadir for Congress IMO was the vote to authorize military force in Iraq and the many Dems that voted for that.

    We can't complain about the danger our democracy faces with an "imperial Presidency" during one administration and then want that "imperial Presidency" back the next one.
  • Ladyvenoms · 1 month ago
    basically, obama wants congress to their dang jobs.

    works for me!
  • rikyrah · 1 month ago
    Senate Dems to Obama: Um, a Little Help Here?

    After a weekend of furious activity, Democratic leaders in the Senate think they are close to getting the votes they need in order to pass an "opt-out" version of the public option.

    But they feel like President Obama could be doing more to help them, with one senior staffer telling TNR on Sunday that the leadership would like, but has yet to receive, a clear "signal" of support for their effort.

    The White House, for its part, says President Obama supports a strong public option, as he always has--and that, as one senior administration official puts it, the president will support the Senate leadership in "whichever way" it chooses to go on this particular question.

    Read those statements carefully and you'll see they don't actually contradict each other. Instead, they offer a pretty good picture of where the public option debate is at the beginning of a week that could quite possibly decide its fate.

    For those just tuning in, the underlying issue here is whether to create a government-run insurance program into which people could enroll voluntarily and that might, ideally, provide more affordable coverage while providing the private insurance industry with much-needed competition. As recently as two or three weeks ago, many observers (this writer included) thought the idea was more or less dead politically.

    But interest in the public option has surged, thanks in part to anger at the insurance industry and the idea's resiliency in opinion surveys. Supporters of the public plan have made headway by seizing on a proposed compromise first introduced by Delaware Senator Tom Carper--a proposal under which the federal government would create some sort of national public plan, but still allow states to opt out of it.

    Key liberal proponents of the public plan, like Senator Jay Rockefeller of West Virginia, have indicated they could support an opt-out. More important, key centrist Senators have hinted some they might be amenable to such a proposal, as well. According to several Capitol Hill sources, those statements--along with private conversations between the leadership and their members--have convinced Democrat leaders it's possible to pass an opt-out. In fact, they think may be just one or two votes away from sixty, the number necessary to break a filibuster. (Not every senator who votes to break the filibuster would necessarily vote for the final plan.)

    But when Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid briefed the president at the White House on Wednesday, Obama responded with a series of tough questions--not rejecting the idea, but not rushing to embrace it, either. When word of that meeting leaked out, public option supporters took Obama's reaction to mean that the administration continued to prefer the "trigger" compromise, under which a failure by private insurers to deliver affordable coverage would trigger the creation of a public plan.

    Maine Senator Olympia Snowe, the lone Republican working with Democrats on health care, favors a trigger. And it's no secret that the administration has worked hard to keep her on board--either because Obama wants at least one Republican vote, because he believes losing her might mean losing some moderate Democrats, or some combination thereof.

    Whatever his reasons--and it's possible only Obama himself knows--his reaction prompted complaints that generated headlines in the Huffington Post and Talking Points Memo, among others. The administration responded by stating, clearly, it was not trying to undercut the Senate leadership. But it still did not go out of its way to support the opt-out--something the Senate leadership noticed, according to the senior staffer.

    The administration could send a signal, in some form or fashion, that they support the Democratic leadership's proposal to include this public option with a state opt-out in the bill. ... a word of support from the president, from [administration spokesman Robert] Gibbs at the podium, any number of ways ... any indication of support would be appreciated by the leadership.

    This staffer added that administration officials "seem more interested in pursuing an Olympia Snowe strategy."

    The administration, meanwhile, continued to say what it was saying late last week: That Obama wants the strongest possible public option that the Senate will approve--and that it stands behind Reid's effort to build that support. On Sunday, a senior administration official told TNR

    We will be 100 percent behind whichever direction Reid decides to go. ... Reid hasn't asked for help. He is polling his caucus to make a decision on the opt out or the trigger. Whichever way he chooses, president Obama will help make the sale publicly and privately.

    http://www.tnr.com/blog/the-treatment/obama-coo...
  • aleth · 1 month ago
    In the press Reid explicitly stated I have not put in a call to the president to get help.

    I think someone posted below Senate you don't need help, you have the power use it. YOU ARE A CO-EQUAL BRANCH act like it. FOR the last 30 years we have had spineless legislature who don't want to do the hardwork or think independently

    CO-EQUAL BRANCH [THE PRESIDENT IS NOT THE PRESIDENT OF THE SENATE, SENATORS DO IT YOURSELF]

    Executive Branch---executes the law [elected by the people, states the preferred will of the people]
    Legislative--- makes the laws [direct representative of the people ---hence the OFA etc to put pressure on them to make the law their rep. want]
    Judiciary: interpret the laws.
  • Val · 1 month ago
    say it again!
  • rikyrah · 1 month ago
    Errrbody ELSE is abandoning Dick Cheney, left and right, but not Slave Catcher Ron Christie.

    Kneegrow just needs to quit.
  • itgurl_29 · 1 month ago
    Ugh! I can't stand him. They could have him standing on a block and then put the rope around his neck and he'd swear they were simply awarding him a medal for his service to the GOP.
  • Guns3000 · 1 month ago
    Who is worse Ron Christie or Henry Lee Peterson?

    LOL
  • RobM · 1 month ago
    I am assuming you watched Hardball @ 5EST.
    Christie's politics are despicable but the manner in which he presents them isn't. Hardball must call both Willie Brown and Ron Christie in advance. Christie goes and receives talking points from the GOP/die hards. Willie Brown appears to have nothing.

    When you present a timeline as an argument you represent facts that are verifiable as opposed to a call for patience and deliberation. People don't have patience or deliberation even though that is the correct thing to do. With people like Christie you need to go to a timeline he and then sum up with he got it wrong.

    It would be Jul 2001 warning from intelligence agencies attack imminent no deliberat attempt to find out where

    Sep 2001 attack

    Oct 7th 2001 Invasion of Afghanistan

    Dec 2001 truce called in Bora Bora mountains Osama Bin Laden escapes

    Mar 20th 2003 Invasion of Iraq on bad information

    May 1st 2003 Bush declares mission accomplished fighting still going on in Afghanistan

    Dec 6th 2006 Iraq study group reccomends surge

    Jan 10th 2007 President Bush announcement surge approved

    That is 31 days to make a decision after 3+ years of Mission Accomplished. Who dithered Mr Christie? How long does it take to make decisions Mr Christie. President Obama called for a strategy in Mar of 2009 and in Sept 2009 he calls for a change. Isn't that quicker than Mr Bush and Sheney? No change in strategy in Afghanistan in how long?
  • rikyrah · 1 month ago
    Sunday, August 9, 2009
    Detroit: Urban Laboratory and the New American Frontier

    NB: This post is intended to be provocative.

    The troubles of Detroit are well-publicized. Its economy is in free fall, people are streaming for the exits, it has the worst racial polarization and city-suburb divide in America, its government is feckless and corrupt (though I should hasten to add that new Mayor Bing seems like a basically good guy and we ought to give him a chance), and its civic boosters, even ones that are extremely knowledgeable, refuse to acknowledge the depth of the problems, instead ginning up stats and anecdotes to prove all is not so bad.

    But as with Youngstown, one thing this massive failure has made possible is ability to come up with radical ideas for the city, and potentially to even implement some of them. Places like Flint and Youngstown might be attracting new ideas and moving forward, but it is big cities that inspire the big, audacious dreams. And that is Detroit. Its size, scale, and powerful brand image are attracting not just the region's but the world's attention. It may just be that some of the most important urban innovations in 21st century America end up coming not from Portland or New York, but places like Youngstown and, yes, Detroit.

    ..........................................


    This piece also highlights one the absolutely crucial advantage of Detroit. It's possible to do things there. In Detroit, the incapacity of the government is actually an advantage in many cases. There's not much chance a strong city government could really turn the place around, but it could stop the grass roots revival in its tracks.

    Can you imagine a two-story beehive in Chicago? In many cities where strong city government still functions effectively, citizens are tied down by an array of regulations and permits that are actually enforced in most cases. Much of the South Side of Chicago has Detroit like characteristics, but the techniques of renewal in Detroit won't work because they are likely against code and would be shut down the minute someone complained. Just as one quick example, my corner ice cream stand dared to put out a few chairs for patrons to sit on while enjoying a frozen treat on a hot day. The city cited them for not having a license. So they took them away and put up a "bring your own chair" sign. The city then cited them for that too. You can't do anything in Chicago without a Byzantine array of licenses, permits, and inspections.

    In central Indianapolis, which is in desperate need of investment, where the city can't fill the potholes in the street, etc., the minute a few yuppies buy houses in an area and fix them up, they immediately petition for a historic district, a request that has never been refused, ensuring that anyone who ever wants to do anything will be forced to run a costly and grueling gauntlet of variances, permits, hearings, etc. Only the most determined are willing to put up with that.

    In most cities, municipal government can't stop drug dealing and violence, but it can keep people with creative ideas out. Not in Detroit. In Detroit, if you want to do something, you just go do it. Maybe someone will eventually get around to shutting you down, or maybe not. It's a sort of anarchy in a good way as well as a bad one. Perhaps that overstates the case. You can't do anything, but it is certainly easier to make things happen there than in most places because of the hand of government weighs less heavily.

    What's more, the fact that government is so weak has provoked some amazing reactions from the people who live there. In Chicago, every day there is some protest at City Hall by a group from some area of the city demanding something. Not in Detroit. The people in Detroit know that they are on their own and if they want something done they have to do it themselves. Nobody from the city is coming to help them. And they've found some very creative ways to deal with the challenges the result. Consider this from the Dowie piece:

    About 80 percent of the residents of Detroit buy their food at the one thousand convenience stores, party stores, liquor stores, and gas stations in the city. There is such a dire shortage of protein in the city that Glemie Dean Beasley, a seventy-year-old retired truck driver, is able to augment his Social Security by selling raccoon carcasses (twelve dollars a piece, serves a family of four) from animals he has treed and shot at undisclosed hunting grounds around the city. Pelts are ten dollars each. Pheasants are also abundant in the city and are occasionally harvested for dinner.

    This might sound awful, and indeed it is. But it is also an inspiration and a testament to the human spirit and defiant self-reliance of the American people. I grew up in a poor rural area where, while hunting is primarily recreational, there are still many people supplementing their family diet with wild game. Many a freezer is full of deer meat, for example. And of course, rural residents have long gardened, freezing and canning the results to help get them through the winter. So this doesn't sound quite so strange to me as it might to you. The fate of the urban poor and the rural poor are more similar than is often credited. And contrary to stereotypes the urban poor often display amazing grit and ingenuity, and perform amazing feats to sustain themselves, their families and communities.

    As the focus on agriculture and even hunting show, in Detroit people are almost literally hearkening back to the formative days of the Midwest frontier, when pioneer settlers faced horrible conditions, tough odds, and often severe deprivation, but nevertheless built the foundation of the Midwest we know, and the culture that powered the industrial age. No doubt in the 19th century many of those sitting secure in their eastern citadels thought these homesteaders, hustlers, and fortune seekers crazy for leaving the comforts of civilization to head to places like Iowa and Chicago. But some saw the possibilities of what could be and heeded the call to "Go West, young man." We've come full circle.

    http://theurbanophile.blogspot.com/2009/08/detr...
  • morphus · 1 month ago
    It hard to believe what's happening in Detroit and its sad.
  • aleth · 1 month ago
    sounds like an oppourtunity in the midwest, maybe i should take a chance. I got to think and pray about it. I guess life is all about risks
  • TyrenM · 1 month ago
    Good Afternoon JJP:
    Public Option w/ Opt-Out in Senate Bill (Harry Reid).
    Governor Pawlenty says MN should opt out. Leave Tim, just leave already. Here's hoping Opt-out is baseline for Conference Commitee. Have a good day.
  • Miranda · 1 month ago
    I dont believe this for one second:

    Heart Attack: Natural Causes Send Madoff Billionaire to the Bottom of the Pool
    Toxicology report still pending for the man who pulled more out of Madoff's scheme than anybody.

    The body of Jeffry Picower, the man who pulled more money -- $7 billion -- out of the Bernard Madoff Ponzi scheme, underwent an autopsy today and the cause of death is determined to be drowning as a result of a massive heart attack, according to Dr. Michael Bell, the medical examiner who performed the autopsy.
    Bell told ABC News that the toxicology results will take ten weeks and if there is anything found that could have contributed to Picower's death he will amend the death certificate.
    The body can now be released for burial, according to Bell.
    "Usually the family will have a funeral home fax a release form, at which time we will hand over the body to the funeral home for burial," said Bell.
    Picower's wife Barbara called 911 yesterday at around noon when she noticed her husband, who had been swimming in the pool outside their gigantic Palm Beach mansion, had sunk to the bottom.
  • rikyrah · 1 month ago
    he no more had a heart attack than the DC Madam committed 'suicide'.

    call it tinfoil hat if you wish.
  • SouthernGirl2 · 1 month ago
    I dont believe this for one second:

    Neither do I.
  • vulcan_girl · 1 month ago
    Ken Lay died of a "heart attack", too.
  • RobM · 1 month ago
    The lawyers will go after the estate. At $7 billion they can not go for it.
  • RobM · 1 month ago
    Do you own an iPhone? Are you losing your religion?
  • ochyming · 1 month ago
    From
    Herd Mentality




    It’s not just that Apple is different among computer makers. It’s that Apple is the only one that even can be different, because it’s the only one that has its own OS. Part of the industry-wide herd mentality is an assumption that no one else can make a computer OS — that anyone can make a computer but only Microsoft can make an OS. It should be embarrassing to companies like Dell and Sony, with deep pockets and strong brand names, that they’re stuck selling computers with the same copy of Windows installed as the no-name brands.


  • allheavens · 1 month ago
    I had a Google Phone G1 but recently upgraded by the MyTouch 3G and love both of them.

    Now when it comes to computers I am Apple ALL the way.
  • carolinagirl · 1 month ago
    The new Droid phone is booty.

    The iPhone is the Alpha and the Omega. LMAO.
  • Admiral_Komack · 1 month ago
    I love my iPhone!

    I love the apps!

    SWEET!
  • JeffL · 1 month ago
    Healthcare system wastes up to $800 billion a year

    "The U.S. healthcare system is just as wasteful as President Barack Obama says it is, and proposed reforms could be paid for by fixing some of the most obvious inefficiencies, preventing mistakes and fighting fraud, according to a Thomson Reuters report released on Monday."

    http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20091026/ts_nm/us_us...

    Nothing particularly new there, but its a nicely timed reminder for the so called deficit hawks.
  • morphus · 1 month ago
    Discovered this fact a few years ago, but, on Sunday, 60 mins investigated the Medicare crime capital in Florida, it was a good show.
  • Mothsmoke · 1 month ago
    Do you know if any of the HCR bills have any criminal enforcement components?
  • morphus · 1 month ago
    Early on enforcement was there (H.R. 3200, America's Affordable Health Choices Act. ):

    "Mandatory Compliance Programs for Providers and Suppliers. Requires providers and suppliers to adopt compliance programs focusing on reduction of fraud, waste, and abuse. Empowers the Department of Health and Human Services (HHS) to disenroll non-compliant providers and suppliers and/or impose civil monetary penalties or other intermediate sanctions.

    Provider and Supplier Enrollment Scrutiny. Requires pre-enrollment screening of Medicare providers and suppliers. Screening includes background and criminal history checks, licensure history and compliance with other program requirements before Medicare billing privileges are granted. Allows enrollment moratoria in specifically identified high-risk areas. Limits Medicare enrollment for durable medical equipment and home health services companies.

    Enhanced Government Auditing. Requires Medicare and Medicaid program integrity contractors to conduct audits and payment reviews. Gives the Center for Medicare and Medicaid Services (CMS) additional audit powers and the authority to collect overpayments uncovered by audits.

    Increased Fraud and Abuse Funding. Increases funding for the Health Care Fraud and Abuse Control Fund by an additional $100 million per year and allows for more flexible use of such funds. "
  • Acts Of Faith Blog · 1 month ago
    New From AOFBlog: Where the Criminal-Minded Can Go http://bit.ly/inqSC
  • morphus · 1 month ago
    When Medea Benjamin stood up in a Kabul meeting hall this weekend to ask Masooda Jalal if she would prefer more international troops or more development funds, the cofounder of US antiwar group Code Pink was hoping her fellow activist would support her call for US troop withdrawal.

    She was disappointed.

    Ms. Jalhal, the former Afghan minister of women, bluntly told her both were needed. "It is good for Afghanistan to have more troops – more troops committed with the aim of building peace and against war, terrorism, and security – along with other resources," she answered. "Coming together they will help with better reconstruction."

    Rethinking their position

    Code Pink, founded in 2002 to oppose the US invasion of Iraq, is one of the more high-profile women's antiwar groups being forced to rethink its position as Afghan women explain theirs: Without international troops, they say, armed groups could return with a vengeance – and that would leave women most vulnerable.

    Though Afghans have their grievances against the international troops' presence, chief among them civilian casualties, many fear an abrupt departure would create a dangerous security vacuum to be filled by predatory and rapacious militias. Many women, primary victims of such groups in the past, are adamant that international troops stay until a sufficient number of local forces are trained and the rule of law established. (Read more about Afghan women's concerns here.)

    'Code Pink' rethinks its call for Afghanistan pullout
  • Mothsmoke · 1 month ago
    SENATE VOTES TO RENEW PATRIOT ACT SPY POWERS

    http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2009/10/pariot...
  • morphus · 1 month ago
    "[T]he committee approved renewing measures that include allowing broad warrants to be issued by a secretive court for any type of record, from financial to medical, without the government having to declare that the information sought is connected to a terrorism or espionage investigation. A proposal that would put limits on such requests was defeated."

    Ugly, especially after there were reports about extensive abuses.
  • Mothsmoke · 1 month ago
    I'd hope that the President would work to get some of this rolled back, but that was certainly wishful thinking. Presidents are loathe to rollback executive power.
  • morphus · 1 month ago
    The US wants to defeat al-Qaida in Afghanistan. But politicians don't realise we're fighting the wrong war, in the wrong country

    Whisper it quietly. Contrary to popular opinion, the west has won the war in Afghanistan.

    How do I know this? Because Barack Obama says the aim of the war is to "disrupt, dismantle and defeat" al-Qaida in Afghanistan – a strategy endorsed by our very own Gordon Brown. If that's the case, then let me spell it out to the president and the prime minister: there are no Afghans in al-Qaida, and no al-Qaida in Afghanistan.

    So why not declare victory and bring the troops home?

    That's not just my humble view – that's the view of one of the world's leading counter-terrorism experts, Dr Marc Sageman, of the Foreign Policy Research Institute in Philadelphia:
    We've won. It was critical, after 9/11, that we went into Afghanistan to destroy the terrorist training camps that the plotters had attended … and we've done that: there are no camps left in Afghanistan, and all of the terror plots now come out of Pakistan.
    Dr Sageman has impeccable credentials: a forensic psychiatrist, sociologist and scholar-in-residence with the New York police department, he served as a CIA case officer in Islamabad in the late 1980s, working closely with the Afghan mujahedin. His most recent book, based on an analysis of more than 500 terrorist biographies, convincingly argues that Bin Laden and his ilk have ceased to function as an organisational or operational entity and that the "present threat has evolved from a structured group of al-Qaida masterminds, controlling vast resources and issuing commands, to a multitude of informal local groups trying to emulate their predecessors by conceiving and executing operations from the bottom up. These 'homegrown' wannabes form a scattered global network, a leaderless jihad."

    ...

    First, the claim that fighting a war in Afghanistan protects the streets of New York and London from terrorist attack. The crux of Dr Sageman's argument, and empirical research, is that, since 2002, there has not been a single terrorist plot in the west that can be traced back to Afghanistan. "

    ...

    Second, the claim that a resurgent Taliban poses a threat to the west. Dr Sageman is adamant that the prospect of "deeply divided" Taliban forces retaking Kabul and returning to power in Afghanistan is "not a sure thing". Nor would a Taliban return to power "mean an automatic new sanctuary for al-Qaida." The relationship between the two organisations, he says, "has always been strained … indeed, al-Qaida has so far not returned to Taliban controlled areas in Afghanistan." It is a view shared, incidentally, by a senior member of the Obama administration, the national security adviser, General James Jones, who told CNN that "the al-Qaida presence [in Afghanistan] is very diminished. The maximum estimate is less than 100 operating in the country. No bases. No ability to launch attacks on either us or our allies."

    Third, the claim that Afghanistan will benefit from an Iraq-style "surge" of western troops. This was Sageman's testimony on Capitol Hill:
    Let me answer that with an old Middle Eastern proverb. 'It's me and my brother against my cousin. But it's me and my cousin against a foreigner.' So if we send 40,000 Americans ... that will coalesce every local rivalry; they will put their local rivalry aside to actually shoot the foreigners and then they'll resume their own internecine fight ... Sending troops with weapons just will unify everybody against those troops, unfortunately.
    Dr Sageman is keen for policymakers in the west, who promote falsehoods and myths about Afghanistan while sitting "several thousand miles from the war zone", to acknowledge the futility of escalation, instead of recognising the success in ridding Afghanistan of al-Qaida, as long ago as 2002.

    We won't find al-Qaida in Afghanistan
  • ochyming · 1 month ago
    I thought Afghanistan war IS to prevent a safe-heaven for any Western interest resistance group.

    Al-Qaida defeated?

    I thought Al-Quaida IS a resistance call.
    And i do not think they need a base to operate, neither IRA nor ETA needed one.
  • morphus · 1 month ago
    What do you think military planners are using to request 40K troops for a surge? Surge to do what?
  • ochyming · 1 month ago
    I really do not know, i was being cheaply ironic.
    I mean is there a stark line these days that separates Al-Qaeda from Taliban?

    I tend to ignore journalists most of time, so i do not know nothing about that war.

    Surely it is not only about Al-Qaeda and the West DO not care about the well being of those people - NEVER did, it is a political and economic strategy war, i think.
  • morphus · 1 month ago
    On point, war is about the other guy's resources.
  • morphus · 1 month ago
    Today was an amazing beginning for us. Not just the beginning of the three day protest against the American Bankers Association (ABA) conference, but the beginning of the end for business as usual on Wall Street. The big banks heard loud and clear tonight that taxpayers are fed up with them taking our money and use to pay themselves outrageous profits and lobby against financial reform.

    They did everything they could not to hear us. They've been ignoring our demands ever since we asked them to meet with us at their convention this weekend. So, tonight, taxpayers decided to invite ourselves in. All we wanted to do was deliver a letter to the Wall Street bankers to let them know how much they've hurt our communities - and what they need to do to clean up their act.

    They wouldn't listen to us. They kicked us out. But, the bad news for them is that we'll be back. We're not going to leave after tonight. In fact, more and more people are coming to Chicago in the next 48 hours. What started as a thousand people tonight will continue to grow up until Tuesday when more than 5,000 taxpayers march on the ABA and demand an end to Wall Street greed.

    VIDEO: You Weren't on the Guest List
  • rikyrah · 1 month ago
    The Race Man
    Steven Hahn
    October 26, 2009 | 12:00 am


    Up from History:
    The Life of Booker T. Washington

    By Robert J. Norrell

    (Harvard University Press, 508 pp., $35)

    I.

    Once the most famous and influential African American in the United States (and probably the world), Booker T. Washington has earned at best mixed reviews in the decades since his death in 1915. Black intellectuals and political activists, from W. E. B. Du Bois to the present day, have generally seen Washington as a conservative racial accommodationist, yielding to the repressive power of Jim Crow and urging American blacks to abandon their political struggles for equality and instead to set their sights on a future of manual labor and petty property ownership.

    Nothing brought Washington more notoriety than the speech that he delivered in 1895 at the Cotton States and International Exposition in Atlanta when, before a racially mixed audience, he appeared to acquiesce to the imperatives of legal segregation ("in all things purely social we can be as separate as the fingers") while encouraging African Americans to "cast down your buckets" in the Jim Crow South. Although he is still read in college (and some high school) classes, usually against Du Bois, and remains in the pantheon of black historical figures, Washington is widely ridiculed and derided in black communities for his seemingly shameless pursuit of white favor. For many, he is the classic "Uncle Tom." Even his most distinguished biographer, Louis R. Harlan, could not do much better than find at Washington's core a drive for personal power and a penchant for political manipulation. And now that we are in the Age of Obama, when a man of African descent who set his sights on higher education and threw himself into grassroots politics--in short, who did many of the things that Washing-
    ton advised against--has been elected president of the United States, do we really need to reacquaint ourselves with the likes of Booker T. Washington? Do his life and views any longer have meaning for us? Do we need another biography?

    Robert J. Norrell clearly thinks we do. The author of several histories of race and the American South, including a fine study of the civil rights movement in Tuskegee, Alabama, where Washington flourished, Norrell believes that both the professional and popular wisdoms on Washington are seriously mistaken. In his view, they overestimate the efficacy of protest as a vehicle for change and they underestimate the challenges that Washington faced. Americans, Norrell writes, have lost touch not only with the idea of educational, moral, and economic development as a means for integrating disadvantaged groups in the modern world, but also with the memory of how fiercely Southern whites contested the developmental projects that Washington devised. In Booker T. Washington, Norrell sees a sophisticated mind, a complex approach to social problems, and admirable goals for the people he sought to lead, all in a world that set profound limits on what he could expect to achieve. Rather than take the potentially suicidal path of resistance or simply concede the fight, Washington offered hope and optimism, together with an effort to rise above history itself. But who, we might ask, benefitted from his offer, and how?

    http://www.tnr.com/article/books-and-arts/the-r...
  • morphus · 1 month ago
    Monday, Oct. 26

    • Afternoon: President Obama will speak to sailors at Naval Air Station Jacksonville on the first stop of a two-day trip to Florida.

    • Evening: President Obama will attend a fundraiser at Fontainebleau on Miami Beach to benefit Democratic members of the U.S. House and Senate. He will stay in Miami overnight.

    CPAN: Presidential Remarks at Fundraiser in Miami

    Monday Timeline for President Obama's visit to Florida
  • morphus · 1 month ago
    An online dating site that excludes ugly members, is now a global enterprise, offering an exclusive club for the truly shallow at a location near you. The site, Beautifulpeople.com forces potential members to submit a photo, which then must be approved by current members, before they are admitted to the site.

    Online Dating Site: Only the Beautiful Need Apply
  • morphus · 1 month ago
    A suburban Chicago bank has admitted its role in a money laundering scheme connected to an international pseudoepherine trafficking operation.

    The U.S. attorney's office accused Family Bank and Trust Co. of conspiring with with its former top executive and others in 2001 to violate federal bank regulations by failing to file multiple currency transaction reports. The unfiled reports involved deposits of more than $800,000.

    The bank has been placed on two years' probation and ordered to forfeit $800,000. It also will relinquish any claims involving $2.2 million being held by the government in connection with the drug trafficking case

    In that prosecution, multiple defendants were convicted of structuring cash deposits from their illegal business into multiple accounts at Family Bank to disguise the illegal nature of the proceeds.

    Bank admits to laundering drug trafficking money
  • ch555x · 1 month ago
    Reminds me of the bank scene in "Scarface". Tony Montana & Co. carrying in sacks full of money while the banker stands there speechless...
  • RobM · 1 month ago
    rikyrah

    did you get a chance to watch Madmen?
  • rikyrah · 1 month ago
    not yet.
  • carolinagirl · 1 month ago
    Have y'all seen this foolishness?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7x9138r_tSA

    Jodeci and H-Town need to hang it up! SMH. Devonte's all cracked out w/ meth-head teeth. Sad...
  • Town · 1 month ago
    Devante's breath looks like it could knock your heels off.
  • rikyrah · 1 month ago
    EVENING OPEN THREAD IS UP