Jack and Jill Politics - Latest Comments in Arne Duncan as Secretary of Education?

Re: Arne Duncan as Secretary of Education?

chicago administrator — Sun, 21 Dec 2008 16:10:52 -0000

It's interesting that to become a principal of a school within Chicago Public Schools one must possess a masters degree and an administrative certificate. Also one must go through a lengthy eligibility process which includes a portfolio, policy test, and interview to get your name on a principal eligibility list. All of this to run one school. Mr. Duncan only need a Sociology degree and to be handpicked by the mayor to run 600 schools. There are many experienced educators in this country who could and should be the Secretary of Education! Visit the CPS website to read more about the principal eligibility process, which by the way changes every three or four years. www.cps.k12.il.us.

Re: Arne Duncan as Secretary of Education?

Constructive_Feedback — Fri, 19 Dec 2008 23:14:19 -0000

[quote]After the passage of Prop. 13 - the revenues from property taxes to school districts began to show wide gaps in what urban schools received and what the schools in rural and suburban areas received.[/quote]

If you have an important resource like EDUCATION which even you would agree provides a gateway to the future for our young people who have young and impressionable minds.....AND since the reality of Prop 13 which (rightfully) acknowledged that there is no endless well of resources that can be extracted from the property owners WHY is it that the very people who say "People over PROFITS" when they are protesting outside of an EVIL CORPORATION use these same signs and turn inward to the ADULTS and tell them that these children are their prized possessions? Ask them what are they willing to yield so that more effective HUMAN RESOURCES are applied to these schools so that these kids are educated as needed for the community's survival?

You all but admit that you are a net DEPENDENT on resources to flow INTO the community that the community's own economic productivity was not able to generate. If indeed Oakland is RESOURCE RICH with humans - what can be implemented that makes use of these adults to expose these students to the education that they are in need of?

[quote]can a repeat of the shyt left by Rod Paige in terms of "No Child Left Behind" be too far away?[/quote]

Christian Progressive-Fundamentalist the character assassin extraordinaire.
Just for grins - could you detail which former Federal Education Secretary had 'the right stuff' in your view?

Does the fact that Barack Obama - the man that you gave nearly every waking hour of your consciousness to in support - WILL CONTINUE "NO CHILD LEFT BEHIND" during his presidency tell you that it is YOU who might serve as a good permanent revolutionary but are apparently lacking in PRAGMATISM?

Does it seem odd that the two key "Evil Bush policies" that Progressive Fundamentalists like you attacked from day one have been adopted by Barack Obama? (NCLB and "Faith Based Initiatives")

Is it possible that the programs themselves were not flawed but that you were bigoted in regards to the messenger?

Again - please detail the track record of success in educating at risk kids that anyone that you favor has put forth?

Re: Arne Duncan as Secretary of Education?

Constructive_Feedback — Fri, 19 Dec 2008 23:02:46 -0000

[quote]"Duncan has done nothing to address racial segregation in our schools--which is so bad that a 2003 Harvard University study found that CPS is "only a few percentage points from an experience of total apartheid for Black students."[/quote]

Vanessa:

Could you tell me SPECIFICALLY what about an "All Black School" is inherently inferior to an "All White School"?

You make use of the word "Apartheid " but you clearly fail to understand the power of certain words.

The Black children living in our urban schools and attending majority minority schools are not living in APARTHEID conditions. That is unless you are smitten with the disease that I call "Non-White White Supremacy".

Do you not find it disturbing for you (I assume a Black person) to only require one piece of information ("Is the school all Black") for you to conclude that it is thus an INFERIOR SCHOOL?

I am bothered by why certain Black people emote the theory that sitting in a class next to WHITE KIDS will afford Black kids the ability to learn by some magical process of osmosis. Would a poster of a White kid in each all Black classroom do the trick?

Why is it unconscionable to work to DISTILL THE ESSENTIAL ESSENCE of the "All White School" that you covet and dare to ask "AM I WILLING TO IMPLEMENT THESE SAME STANDARDS, CULTURAL NORMS AND ETHOS in the all Black school that is in my focus so that they too can have success"?

You see Vanessa - you give yourself a mental "out" by claiming that this is all about SCHOOL FUNDING. You and I both know that this is not the case.

Worse yet - some people who hate Blacks and I would dare to say - some Black folks themselves - believe that the White student is superior and thus we see the results.

I dare to argue for the third point that is less popular. The problem with Black schools is that there is an aggregate UNWILLINGNESS to put forth the proper order both inside of the school and with regard to the management of these children to create an environment where ACADEMIC SUCCESS is a more likely outcome.

I credit Atlanta School Superintendent Beverly Hall. She said recently (paraphrased) "I have come to the conclusion a while ago that SCHOOL BUSING is not a valid option as I will ways always have more at risk students than I do quality classrooms to place them in where they will be the minority. Therefore I chose to WORK WITH WHAT I HAVE and raise the standards and my tactics accordingly".

Re: Arne Duncan as Secretary of Education?

Reese — Fri, 19 Dec 2008 20:31:24 -0000

I live in Chicago and I am a teacher. I was so disappointed when I saw that Obama picked Arne Duncan. I do not agree with his politics in regards to education, and recently he agreed that highschool children should get paid for good grades. What was he thinking? I believe he is such a bad choice because he does not understand what education is about. Giving kids money for school...I just wish Obama would have picked a different person. Yet, on a positive note the other cabinet members seem suited for their jobs

Re: Arne Duncan as Secretary of Education?

kay — Thu, 18 Dec 2008 19:11:23 -0000

I agree that there are persons who are far better qualified as it relates to educational pedagogy than Arne Duncan. I hope he accomplishes more than has been able to accomplish for the Urban Black Children who attend one of the CPS Charter Schools he was instrumental in establishing on the West Side of Chicago. The children at that school are not prepared to even transfer to another school (lack of a curriculum accepted at most public schools). What a disservice!

Re: Arne Duncan as Secretary of Education?

Vanessa — Thu, 18 Dec 2008 00:14:37 -0000

I absolutely agree with rikyrah and everyone else who thinks this guy is a hack. You don't close under-performing schools, you work on fixing them! These schools are almost always in resource-poor neighborhoods, and schools are funded based on the property values of the neighborhoods, so poor kids get hurt the most. And who is disproportionately poor in this city, and country? Black folks.

"Duncan has done nothing to address racial segregation in our schools--which is so bad that a 2003 Harvard University study found that CPS is "only a few percentage points from an experience of total apartheid for Black students." Rather than try to remedy this shameful situation, Duncan requested the removal of the federal judicial consent decree that mandates the meager efforts CPS has undertaken to improve the racial balance of our schools."
://socialistworker.org/2008/12...

Another *big* beef I have with this guy is that he is for having military recruitment in our schools. Chicago has more recruitment offices in public schools than any other city. It is sick. With unemployment rates of over 40% in some Black areas, what are kids going to do? It's a terrible, terrible set-up to have our youth thrown into the mouth of a lion.

Re: Arne Duncan as Secretary of Education?

Thu, 18 Dec 2008 00:13:26 -0000

I am deeply disappointed by the selection of Mr. Duncan for this extremely important position. A far better choice would have been Dr. Linda Darling-Hammond who is an academic, and deeply in tune with school reform, redesign and teacher preparation. I wish that politicians, including PE Obama, would look to academia for education cabinet positions, rather than run of the mill superintendents who preach the same meme, i.e. standards, school closures and the end of teacher's unions and contracts. Yawn, yawn, yawn. They never understand the complexities of urban school problems and simply accept the easy route of standardized testing and school closures. He will simply cowtow to the KIPP and Edison school models, which will inevitably leave many children behind.

Re: Arne Duncan as Secretary of Education?

John — Wed, 17 Dec 2008 23:37:35 -0000

Critiques of schools emanate from the the corporate world. The corporate world has created the debate about schools, it has defined the terms, and it has conveniently offered "solutions." And the citizenry has failed to recognize that 1) the interests of the corporate world are antithetical to the interests of the American people, and 2) the debate has been framed in a way to distract from the real problem with education- the real problems being economic policies that have perpetuated societal imbalance, generally along color lines, and have re-segregated schools.

The corporate world has put the blame for society's woes on schools, when the blame should be placed firmly on policies from which corporations benefit, and have helped to create. Schools are not failing society, rather society is failing schools, and schools can not undo the stratification and inequality that exists in society.

Arne Duncan represents this corporate ideology- an ideology that is detrimental to the health of our public school system, and to the academic and civic development of students.

Re: Arne Duncan as Secretary of Education?

freespiritbty — Wed, 17 Dec 2008 03:28:45 -0000

I concur. I don't know a thing about Duncan and will read up on his info when my mind is fresh.

Re: Arne Duncan as Secretary of Education?

Dave — Tue, 16 Dec 2008 22:36:47 -0000

Chicago has one of the worst public school systems in the country for a major city, and we're supposed to be comfortable w/ this selection? As an individual who voted for Obama, I must say that this may be the worst selection he probably could have made, and is actually making consider whether I selected the right person to be president. No doubt, education must be one of the most important aspects which must be fixed in this country, right up there w/ the economy and health care. But it seems that as long as I've been alive (which is only 24 years) I not seen anything to see that education will ever be fixed in this country. I may only be speaking for public schools in Chicago, but our schools in general are a joke when compared to other countries like in Europe and Japan. So how is this moron Duncan supposed to help us? What has that guy done w/ Chicago public schools? So they say he raised standardized scores, that's complete b.s. Anyone who does any form of real research would learn that during his tenure, the test actually became easier, thus explaining the increase in the scores. Great job Duncan, improved scores, but no real improved education. Oh, not to mention the closing of multiple schools across the city. He explains that these schools were under performing, and had to be closed. Nice job to let those schools to be collapse to such a point. And the solution; dump those kids to other schools which aren't much better. That sounds like a great idea! Seriously, how dumb do you have to be? The very system in Chicago in distributing funds to school is incompetent, and clearly antagonistic towards the poor and minorities. How bout this, depending on the amount of money earned by those living in the neighborhood, we'll tax those individuals and that will make up how much funding a school will get. Geez, how do you think that will affect already impoverished schools? Less income = less funding for public school. Great idea Duncan, how's that working? Speaking from personal experience, I can tell you Chicago public schools are awful. My school was old, we almost had a lead poisoning problem. I had books that still recognized the USSR, in the late 90s for God's sake. Computers? What's that? The drop out rate amongst public high school students is still nearly at 50%, w/ the percentage of those actually going college is minuscule. And beyond college, law school, medical school? That's laughable. For both Blacks and Hispanics (those making up the majority in Chicago public schools) the likelihood for those minorities to go to a law school for example, less than 1%. Great progress. A terrible pick by Obama, and although I hope for the best, I doubt that anything good can come out of this disaster

Re: Arne Duncan as Secretary of Education?

Roslyn Holcomb — Tue, 16 Dec 2008 21:19:09 -0000

"They took working Black schools and turned them into non-working Black schools, and then here comes the threat of closure and turning them into charter schools."

Sounds to me like CPS needs a good vocational/technical school program. Not only could these kids not function in a poor school, but even when transferred to a school they failed to perform there as well. This more or less supports what I've said all along, there's going to be some kids for whom traditional education is not the answer. Trying to educate them anyway will do nothing but destroy the school system. Makes perfectly good sense to do what the rest of the world does and direct those kids to a trade, rather than wait until they trash the school and then drop out.

Re: Arne Duncan as Secretary of Education?

Honey01 — Tue, 16 Dec 2008 20:24:02 -0000

I feel somewhat torn on the Duncan selection. I hear you Rikyah on some of your points, particularly the "gentrification" issue. This is real.

Without going into too much detail, I will say that I work for CPS. I think generally there are two groups of people. One group from the education prespective (mainly the CTU) who wholly dislike Duncan and his programs and the other in administration (like myself) who do like him or are at least somewhat ambivalent.

There is always the running debate regarding Duncan not having what is seen as the prerequisite degree(s) in education. The question often posed is how could he possibly know how to run a school system? I don't know if I necessarily agree with the theory the ED.d (or Master's) equals qualified. I think it certainly helps give perspective. I am in contact daily with folks with their Doctorates in Education who should not be in charge of running a McDonald's, better yet a school. I think sometimes, it is ok to apply business principles in education settings. What is integral to me is that Duncan is surrounded by others who do have have classroom or other educational experience.

Duncan is the Chief Executive Officer and Barbara Eason Watkins is the Chief Education Officer.

I can go on and on regarding accountability and other issues, but like I said ...

Re: Arne Duncan as Secretary of Education?

Roslyn Holcomb — Tue, 16 Dec 2008 19:37:49 -0000

What consequences? Having better schools? Who said anything about throwing any kids away? The kids either rise to the level of the school system or they go to a school where they can learn something more on their level. Seems like a reasonable system to me. It beats the hell out of supposedly educating all the kids, when in actuality the kids who don't want to be there just make it a miserable experience for everyone.

We've spent decades lowering academic standards to the lowest common denominator, so that we supposedly don't leave anyone out. What has that gotten us? 50% drop-out rates in some communities. Clearly lowering the standards is not the answer. And anyone who knows anything about children would know that. Children rise to meet expectations. There's nothing more bigoted than having no expectations of a child. I've encountered way too many "educators" who are more concerned about preserving the status quo than they are about building better schools. From what I've read, drop out rates are lower in Chicago and test scores are higher. Personally I don't see the problem.

Re: Arne Duncan as Secretary of Education?

TRW — Tue, 16 Dec 2008 19:34:16 -0000

Take my comments with a grain of salt, but the criticism of this guy seems over the top.

Closing underperforming schools? I went to an underperforming school that is still open. It should have been closed years ago. And each year they were raising money to get more "resources" but even with that money there was never any real improvement with the school. The building, books, and curriculum were outdated. Most of the kids didn't give a rats ass about being in school, that's when they weren't cutting school and/or disrupting classes. And the tenured teachers didn't give a rats ass about teaching. The numerous "substitute" teachers basically brought in R rated movies for us to watch instead of you know, teaching. Our standardized testing scores were piss poor. It was literally a zoo at times with all of the fights. Should I go on?

Lack of a graduate degree? Really? Are we really going to make the argument that a graduate degree = competence. Because if we are, I would like to hear your take about what that Harvard MBA did for Bush. Don't get me wrong, I'm not hating on the PhDs, but I am willing to give people a chance when they are passionate about their careers and demonstrate competence. From what I have read, he has extensive experience in educational policy and management, genuinely cares about kids, and is non-ideological. He may turn out to be a total disaster, but I am willing to wait and see what happens.

And White privilege? Sorry, but do you know dude personally or something. That critique is below the belt. And I find it ironic that you accuse him of White privilege when it was a Black man, and another Obama friend, John Rogers, that helped him out early in his career.

Re: Arne Duncan as Secretary of Education?

Roslyn Holcomb — Tue, 16 Dec 2008 19:33:24 -0000

I'm still waiting for someone to tell me what's wrong with shutting down bad schools. Why on earth is it okay to send kids to bad schools? To support a political agenda? It's because I care about kids and spent fifteen years working with them that I know that you can't send a good kid to a bad school and expect a decent outcome.

I hope that people who really care about children are the ones who are running our Department of Education and our schools. And if this man is about building good schools for children and families who want an education I say here, here.

Re: Arne Duncan as Secretary of Education?

sherprin — Tue, 16 Dec 2008 18:34:31 -0000

I agree with you Rhondacoca. It saddens me to hear people endorsing shutting down schools without thinking of the consequences. These are kids we're talking about. I'd rather that we focus trying to educate and train kids rather than throwing them away.

Re: Arne Duncan as Secretary of Education?

chenna — Tue, 16 Dec 2008 17:35:41 -0000

How do dride the fed govt's role on the one hand but then proceed to talk about how you've sponsored not 1 but 2 bills seeking tax credits from whom? the fed govt. doesn't make sense

Re: Arne Duncan as Secretary of Education?

Rhondacoca — Tue, 16 Dec 2008 16:43:02 -0000

Ya mother!

Anyways a racist troll...exciting! Its getting YouTube up in here.

Re: Arne Duncan as Secretary of Education?

Rhondacoca — Tue, 16 Dec 2008 16:41:14 -0000

I hope and pray to God that you are not teaching anyone's children. Its that attitude that causes te problems.

Re: Arne Duncan as Secretary of Education?

Stardrawn — Tue, 16 Dec 2008 16:11:44 -0000

The federal government does not own our children. Yet we act as if it does by letting it decide when, how, and what our children will learn. We have turned their futures over to lobbyists and bureaucrats.

I support giving educational control back to parents, who know their children better than any politician in D.C. ever will.

The federal government has no constitutional authority to fund or control schools. I want to abolish the unconstitutional, wasteful Department of Education and return its functions to the states. By removing the federal subsidies that inflate costs, schools can be funded by local taxes, and parents and teachers can directly decide how best to allocate the resources.

To help parents with the costs of schooling, I have introduced H.R. 1056, the Family Education Freedom Act, in Congress. This bill would allow parents a tax credit of up to $5,000 (adjustable after 2007 for inflation) per student per year for the cost of attendance at an elementary and/or secondary school. This includes private, parochial, religious, and home schools.

Another bill I have sponsored, H.R. 1059, allows full-time elementary and secondary teachers a $3,000 yearly tax credit, thus easing their financial burden and encouraging good teachers to stay in an underpaid profession.

Many parents have already shown their desire to be free of federal control by either enrolling their children in private schools or homeschooling them. And students enrolled in these alternatives have consistently performed better and tested higher than those in state-run schools.

Years of centralized education have produced nothing but failure and frustrated parents. We can resurrect our public school system if we follow the Constitution and end the federal education monopoly.

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Re: Arne Duncan as Secretary of Education?

NMP — Tue, 16 Dec 2008 15:28:08 -0000

Gotta' give you dap on that one!

Re: Arne Duncan as Secretary of Education?

Alexander2 — Tue, 16 Dec 2008 14:23:34 -0000

The "Hell No" criticism of the guy seems way overblown, in my humble opinion. Personally, I don't give a flying f**k that he doesn't have an advanced degree in education: the position has traditionally been held by governors of varying educational backgrounds so there is no need for the victimhood rhetoric. And yes, he does send his own kids to Chicago public schools.

The American Prospect gives a more nuanced view of the man.

MEET ARNE DUNCAN, OBAMA'S EDUCATION PICK.

With the Democratic Party embroiled in internal debate over public school reform, it is very much like Barack Obama to tap Chicago public schools CEO Arne Duncan as education secretary. Duncan is one of the only prominent education leaders in the country who signed both the Broader, Bolder and the Education Equality Project manifestos. Duncan, a longtime Obama friend and adviser, has shown particular interest in early childhood education, a major part of Obama's education and anti-poverty agenda. And he sends his own kids to Chicago public schools. Here's hoping he'll live in the city when he moves to D.C. and continue his family's track record of support for the public system.

But although Duncan is being hailed as a compromise between free-market education reformers and teachers' unions, we shouldn't delude ourselves as to the nature of Duncan's relationship with the Chicago Teachers Union. Duncan closed schools (never a popular move), removed teachers from the classroom, and supported charter schools, which now make up about 10 percent of the Chicago system. To get a sense of the grassroots opposition to Duncan, check out the Caucus of Rank and File Teachers and Substance News. Notably, these two groups, critics from the left, believe the Chicago Teachers Union is corrupt and little better than management at representing teachers' and students' needs; on the other hand, a more centrist observer, Alexander Russo, writes that Duncan hasn't been tough enough in his negotiations with the union, and should have done more to attract middle class and affluent families to Chicago's public schools. Russo also snarks that national union chief Randi Weingarten's recent kind words about Duncan's relationship with the CTU could hardly have been made "with a straight face."

Any pick of an actual superintendent to head the Department of Education, as opposed to a governor relatively ignorant of the nitty gritty of education debates, is a move by Obama in the direction of serious, hands-on reform. That's good news, I think, for those of us -- regardless of ideology -- who hope education will become a first tier issue under the Obama administration.

Re: Arne Duncan as Secretary of Education?

Tom — Tue, 16 Dec 2008 13:07:09 -0000

I know very little about this guy. It certainly does reflect Obama's lack of respect for the need to know something about education. He certainly has no in depth knowledge about education. Maybe ignorance is bliss and thereore does not get in the way of decision making. Sorry about the sarcasm! I do have real concerns about having a guy in this position with only an undergraduate degree in sociology. Is he just another Bill Bennet neo-conservative in Obama clothing. It should be noted that I did vote for Obama - and will withhold ultimate judgment.

We just hired a man at our university who has a Ph.D. in education from Harvard. I'll get back to evryone as far as the Harvard take on this appointment.

Re: Arne Duncan as Secretary of Education?

Symphony — Tue, 16 Dec 2008 13:04:40 -0000

Agree Roslyn. Every level is not for every student. We do need to put an emphasis on trade programs. There are a lot of people making a good living in those trades that don't require a Bachelor's degree and too many of our people don't even know they exist because someone is trying to make them understand Shakespeare when its evident thats not the path they are or ever will be on.

Re: Arne Duncan as Secretary of Education?

Trina — Tue, 16 Dec 2008 12:49:21 -0000

I agree with your post. You make some good points.