Jack and Jill Politics - Latest Comments in Black Conservatives Consider Voting For Obama Because He’s Black?

Re: Black Conservatives Consider Voting For Obama Because He’s Black?

rikyrah — Mon, 16 Jun 2008 02:34:00 -0000

pamela,

we've had discussions before. I didn't mean to insult you, but I do find a lot of inconsistencies with some Black conservatives.

Re: Black Conservatives Consider Voting For Obama Because He’s Black?

Pamela — Mon, 16 Jun 2008 00:45:00 -0000

Oh and rhonda I tried with all my might to resist commenting on this but I can't help myself...

Black Conservatives are a flimsy group of people and I have always known that. I won't bother to get into that. I was once one myself. I did a 360 these last four years.

So do you mean you started out anti-conservative or were you a conservative and ended up in the same place? Because I would think you actually did a 90 or a 270.

You know I love you, xoxo.

Re: Black Conservatives Consider Voting For Obama Because He’s Black?

Pamela — Sun, 15 Jun 2008 22:20:00 -0000

I want to add, after re-reading some of the comments that there are as many calls for blacks to leave the democratic party as there are to leave the republican party. The underling difference, I see, is no one is ever called out as being "anti-black" or "elitist" if they are democrats while it seems, based on the comments here, that black conservatives are both. I expect generalizations from other races (generally old white people) but it is so much more demeaning when it comes from other black people.

Re: Black Conservatives Consider Voting For Obama Because He’s Black?

Anonymous — Sun, 15 Jun 2008 22:15:00 -0000

Pamela:

Yes ma'am. And thank you for saying it. I am also a Black female who happens to be conservative and I also feel the spite and downright feeling of being unwanted as an Obama supporter. I have told my majority Democrat family that I do believe he will win the Presidency, I will vote for him, but his term will be ruined by his own supporters crying racism every time he is criticized. This tendency to treat every Black conservative as if we are stupid sheep to the white man is stupid and tired. If anything, we are showing you that we actually look at issues by switching our support to a Dem candidate. But that means nothing. They will derail him.

Re: Black Conservatives Consider Voting For Obama Because He’s Black?

Professor Tracey — Sun, 15 Jun 2008 21:35:00 -0000

What I thought was interesting about the article is the fact that prominent black female conservatives were left out. So, black women are invisible on both sides of the political media.

Re: Black Conservatives Consider Voting For Obama Because He’s Black?

Pamela — Sun, 15 Jun 2008 20:07:00 -0000

rhondacoca

I was referring to your comments, as well as those by plantsmantx and rikyrah, all people that I tend to agree with or respect the opinions of on most occasions. I am a "black conservative" or at least I am black and conservative but I do know my history, don't look down on people and have never described black democrats as being kept on the plantation by democrats. I have suggested that if some black democrats actually ask themselves what issues are important to them as opposed to belonging to a party by default they may be independents or republicans. Not the same as comparing their political decisions as being kept on the plantation.

I have never considered myself as "the only successful Black folk" while "the rest of us are just dumb, ignorant hicks." That's stupid. Just because my opinion is different doesn't mean it is better or worse. It is just different.

First and foremost I am a proud black woman and I am happy to be a black woman. In fact growing up going to private schools, wearing uniforms I was so happy that I actually looked different and had a strong history that I could be proud of. I kinda felt sorry for my white friends who didn't really have anything interesting about them, at least that they knew. And it wasn't all sunshine and puppies, people are mean and cruel and close minded but that was there issue not mine. I always had family and friends that outweighed the negative.

So I guess my point is it is possible to be black, love being black and love my brothers and sisters without having to subscribe to the same political ideology. So it bugs me when other black people make generalizations that because I am conservative I am out of touch, a snob or removed from the community.

Re: Black Conservatives Consider Voting For Obama Because He’s Black?

RhondaCoca — Sun, 15 Jun 2008 13:53:00 -0000

Umm...pamela, be more clear in who you are refering to because I was critiquing the article and commentary. I have nothing personal against them just many of their theories and philosphies.

Did you read the comments or are you just commenting?

Re: Black Conservatives Consider Voting For Obama Because He’s Black?

Pamela — Sun, 15 Jun 2008 12:47:00 -0000

Wow you guys really hate black conservatives. No matter how many conversations have occurred about issues, no matter how many times people on different sides off the fence have come together and agreed on several topics on this forum and no matter how many time the negative affect of stereotypes have been commented on, it still comes down to snide, negative comments about black conservatives.

Re: Black Conservatives Consider Voting For Obama Because He’s Black?

D. — Sun, 15 Jun 2008 10:44:00 -0000

An admission:

Were it not for Obama's stance on the war and his lack of national security credentials, he would've gotten a more serious look from me.

Re: Black Conservatives Consider Voting For Obama Because He’s Black?

justice58 — Sun, 15 Jun 2008 08:36:00 -0000

"Now when someone gets footage of Clarence Thomas saying that he's going to vote for Obama, I'll do one of three things:
A) Pass out.

B) Be filled with the Holy Ghost and start shouting.

C) See Jesus.

-----------------------------------

ahahahahahahahahaha

Too funny, Webb!

Re: Black Conservatives Consider Voting For Obama Because He’s Black?

Plantsmantx — Sun, 15 Jun 2008 07:38:00 -0000

"The difference is that these proclaimed “black conservatives” seem to blame every social ill in society on blacks as if they are exclusive to them or dysfunctional. They also too often speak in general terms. Many seem to also lack a real understanding of black history. Classic was when one really tried to convince me that the “ghetto” was a result of Johnson’s War on Poverty."

In other words, they parrot white conservatives.

Re: Black Conservatives Consider Voting For Obama Because He’s Black?

rikyrah — Sun, 15 Jun 2008 01:36:00 -0000

Education, Success, Wealth is no protection against the cruelty and ignorance of others.
How many times have the millionaire AA's been followed around in a store by a ten dollar per hour, teenage sales associate?

It's deeper than just the money.

True. Just read that this just happened to Ruth Simmons - President of Brown University.

Re: Black Conservatives Consider Voting For Obama Because He’s Black?

rikyrah — Sun, 15 Jun 2008 01:34:00 -0000

OT: watching one of my favorite movies - The Best Man. Totally love it.

Morris Chestnut just beat Taye Diggs' ass at the Bachelor Party.

Re: Black Conservatives Consider Voting For Obama Because He’s Black?

rikyrah — Sun, 15 Jun 2008 01:14:00 -0000

rhonda,

You wrote a mouthful, and I appreciated every bit of it. Blacks are the most socially conservative part of the Democratic Party. We always have been.

Black conservatives like to pretend that they're the only successful Black folk, and the rest of us are just dumb, ignorant hicks. They know darn well why Black folk haven't broken en masse for the Republican Party. I've said before the most confusing thing to the GOP was the fact that so much of the Black Middle and Professional Classes remained Democrats. They JUST KNEW that Black folk would abandon their lower socio-economic brethren when they became successful. When all they could get was tokens they were confused and angry.

Re: Black Conservatives Consider Voting For Obama Because He’s Black?

rikyrah — Sun, 15 Jun 2008 01:10:00 -0000

Oh wow, the black republicans are going to vote for Obama....all twenty of them. Come on home ye back-sliders--backsliding prodigal children...

BWA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA

Hilarious.

Re: Black Conservatives Consider Voting For Obama Because He’s Black?

rikyrah — Sun, 15 Jun 2008 01:08:00 -0000

GMTA,

I just came online to post about this. I read it earlier today.

To be honest, they know that when they look at Senator and Mrs. Obama, they are filled with nothing but pride. They know it.

Re: Black Conservatives Consider Voting For Obama Because He’s Black?

Webb — Sun, 15 Jun 2008 01:00:00 -0000

Oh wow, the black republicans are going to vote for Obama....all twenty of them. Come on home ye back-sliders--backsliding prodigal children...

Now when someone gets footage of Clarence Thomas saying that he's going to vote for Obama, I'll do one of three things:

A) Pass out.

B) Be filled with the Holy Ghost and start shouting.

C) See Jesus.

Re: Black Conservatives Consider Voting For Obama Because He’s Black?

TruthSeeker — Sun, 15 Jun 2008 00:57:00 -0000

rhondacoca & ms.martin,

"They seem to look at social mobility as a reason to eradicate racism in our society,.."

If this is true then, the treatment of the Obama's should be another wake-up call. Heck, they wouldn't even let Oprah into Hermes after hours.

Some people will look at Michelle and only ever see their washerwoman...as Zsa Zsa Gabor's husband, Prince Frederic von Anhalt intimated.

Education, Success, Wealth is no protection against the cruelty and ignorance of others.

How many times have the millionaire AA's been followed around in a store by a ten dollar per hour, teenage sales associate?

It's deeper than just the money.

Re: Black Conservatives Consider Voting For Obama Because He’s Black?

RhondaCoca — Sun, 15 Jun 2008 00:28:00 -0000

Truthseeker and Ms.Martin-

That is unfortunate. I would not have put it past them. They are slimy and I believe that a Clinton supporter and or surrogate had something to do with the pushing of the Dr. Wright tapes and Pfleger tapes. It times that they were released by the media to the public in the manner that they were is too suspicious.

The fact that the democratic party refuses to discuss this and the fact that Obama has not called anyone out on it is pretty unfortunate in its own right. He would hold a press conference to denounce Wright for "divisiveness" and giving comfort to those who bred on hate yet those characterizations apply to their Clintons and their campaign.

Truly unfortunate! Black people please leave the democratic party. This will be one of those great historical shifts once again. Let us be independent and demand that our lawmakers and those who want our support earn it.

Re: Black Conservatives Consider Voting For Obama Because He’s Black?

RhondaCoca — Sun, 15 Jun 2008 00:23:00 -0000

I agree Truthseeker-

I have been seeing that.

Now for the article and commentary,

"The idea is that Obama, of course, won't solve all the problems of black America by his mere election, but that he'll remove the "victim" mentality of many black folks who want to blame all our problems on racism."

Yea, black conservatives just love that. It shows how distant they really are from actual black people.

Black Conservatives are a flimsy group of people and I have always known that. I won't bother to get into that. I was once one myself. I did a 360 these last four years. They seem not to really care about the policies that make them align themselves with the Republican party. While I am happy to welcome them on board, this speaks volumes!

Do they really think that all blacks are just sitting at the bottom complaining? They could not be further from the truth!

They seem to look at social mobility as a reason to eradicate racism in our society, which shows that they do not understand racism and how it affects the lives of African Americans. They do not understand how deeply embedded it is. They essentially have a shallow understanding of it and its impact. I don't know why they seem not to understand that our society is essentially built on the foundation of white supremacy and it has permeated every aspect of our existence and all of our institutions. I am confused as to why they don’t get that? Classic was one who told me that there was more prejudice internally than externally as if she did not understand where the internal problems were a result of? Something that people also have not seemed not to figure out is that the higher you excel in life, the more you are confronted with actual racism. This is my finding. My father experienced more racism as a broker on Wall Street making six figures than my cousin who works at the local community center in Brooklyn making hardly 20,000. Therefore when I was once having a conversation with a white person and a black conservative, I brought this up. They kept trying to say that blacks at the bottom blame racism when so many of them rarely come into contact with whites in their neighborhoods. It’s simply hilarious. They also seem too overlook socio-economic conditions and issues. When one may speak of whites, they are probably referring to the government and institutionalized racism.

Self-declared conservatives’ social beliefs seem to too often stem from a negative view of African Americans regardless and an affirmation of White supremacy. When it does not have to be that!

Most blacks are socially conservative. I live in a family of them. They are everywhere. I don’t know why our society so often thinks the opposite. That is why it kills me that Bill Cosby (who is socially conservative only) gets so much attention. I have heard a million people say exactly what he says yet when you see it framed in the media; they act as if these things are foreign to the ears of blacks. For every copy of “Come On People” there is a book about…the same thing. For every copy sold, there is a black mother somewhere telling her son to buck up! The difference is that these proclaimed “black conservatives” seem to blame every social ill in society on blacks as if they are exclusive to them or dysfunctional. They also too often speak in general terms. Many seem to also lack a real understanding of black history. Classic was when one really tried to convince me that the “ghetto” was a result of Johnson’s War on Poverty.

You see the younger generation has been moving away from socially conservative values as is the younger generations of all races. The values of our society on a whole have changed and will continue to change.

Also, Black conservatives love to say how black democrats are being fooled and "kept on the plantation" by democrats. Yet they are now seeing that they are the ones being fooled also, if not more?

Ummm...yea. That’s why I'm an independent! Both black dems and black repubs are being fooled.

It cracks me up how J.C. Watts is creating a black news channel when there is no racism, racial disparity or respect of blacks in the media and other institutions? Hmmm…I think that that right there eradicates many of their own social theories.

Even Condi Rice understands certain things about race in our society!

A conversation is not going to change everything. For God's sake, what have people even taken away from Obama's "speech on race" that everyone was all cheering about (at least his supporters).

I hope that with an Obama presidency, there will be a more universal understanding of the black experience in America and not the limited crap that is constantly spewed and given attention.

I hope that there is a change of “leadership” and voices away from the Old Guard. One or two people cannot speak to the concerns and thoughts of millions. I hope that there is a surge in young black politicians both male and female. People need to get together on a grassroots level to make improvements. Blacks of the generations (yes, its generations) after the Civil Rights generation need to redefine themselves and put forth their own agenda in a way that is relevant to what is going on to day. It must not be a political reality, it must be an actual reality! It must also be effective. I cannot get over the fact that I believe that too many from the Civil Right Generation dropped the ball and now they refuse to pass the torch. I believe that their needs to be a change in the representations of blacks in the media. There needs to be more lobbying in that direction because far too often, people’s perceptions of blacks and even young black people’s perceptions of themselves are being shaped and influenced by the media.

With an Obama presidency, we need to make our voices louder not lower, like I have seen too many people doing! We must make our concerns and ourselves more relevant that not. There needs to be a restoration of black self-determination not the opposite. If we do the opposite then we will live to regret it.

That is real change and transformation. I am sorry to tell people that symbolism is not real change.

Re: Black Conservatives Consider Voting For Obama Because He’s Black?

Ms.Martin — Sat, 14 Jun 2008 23:34:00 -0000

Truthseeker:

I remember seeing a story where a Clinton surrogate was supposed to pit the Blacks against the Jews.

I'm willing to bet Obama was okay with Dean's stance. You're right about the black vote.

Re: Black Conservatives Consider Voting For Obama Because He’s Black?

Ms.Martin — Sat, 14 Jun 2008 23:20:00 -0000

Jack I think the conversation is the beginning of the reality that change will take place.

Re: Black Conservatives Consider Voting For Obama Because He’s Black?

TruthSeeker — Sat, 14 Jun 2008 22:58:00 -0000

Dean has been expressing regret that the DNC didn't speak out against the supposed sexist treatment of Hillary by the media. Not a peep is heard about the ugly racial politics played by the Hillary Campaign.

A superdelegate actually admitted to the Clinton camp talking with him about racist tactics. Democrats are covering for the Clinton's - one of their own - at the expense of AA Democrats. I suppose their trump card is the strong AA support for Barack.

Re: Black Conservatives Consider Voting For Obama Because He’s Black?

Ms.Martin — Sat, 14 Jun 2008 22:57:00 -0000

I read this article this morning and thought it was interesting.