-
Website
http://www.jackandjillpolitics.com/ -
Original page
http://www.jackandjillpolitics.com/2007/05/black-men-stand-with-and-not-against-black-women/ -
Subscribe
All Comments -
Community
-
-
Top Commenters
-
Popular Threads
http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/05/16/obit.king.ap/index.html?eref=rss_topstories
I understand there is six degrees of separation and we all are six "steps" away from each person on Earth.
Yet, a deep question in my mind is, do I want my daughters to marry into the families of natural born killers like George Bush, do I really want to have my daughters marry into the sick families of Jeffery Dahmer, Ted Bundy, John Wayne Gacy, Ronald Reagan, randy Kraft, Henry Lee Lucas?
The history of American males is a psychopathic one when it comes to blacks and native Americans. The American government over the past 400 years has by-and-large been lead by nothing less than psychopathic killers. Look at Vietnam, Iraq, Trail of Tears, American Slavery; the list goes on and on.
Personally, I'm tolerant. Yet I would like to be 7 steps away from a whole bunch of people. I guess it has a lot to do with my life experiences in a racist northern city called Boston.
If black women want to marry white men, hey good luck to yah, just don't complain when he calls you out of your name. I just posted a quote on my blog from Harriet Tubman.
She said: “I freed a thousand slaves I could have freed a thousand more if only they knew they were slaves.”
I come from a family of freed slaves, why would I want my daughters to marry the great grand child of the slave master?
As June Jordan wrote some time ago, “Most black folks are very clear about one thing: who endangers their lives. Most black folks know he is a powerful white man, such as the President or the Governor or the distinguished U.S. Senator from almost anywhere. And that's how most of us feel most of the time about white men: that they are powerful and dangerous. And we are not racist. We simply do not have power; white men do.”
Jill, My daughters are going to love who they want to love. I can only hope they have learned through life experience, knowledge passed on from my mother, grandmother, and her great grand mother a history they should never forget - The history of white men in America. If they understand that history, they will marry black. If not, they will marry white and hope against hope that the white guy they marry will be different from the very their grand parents who just may have supported slavery.
As Harriet Tubman said: “I freed a thousand slaves I could have freed a thousand more if only they knew they were slaves.”
My daughters are going to love who they want to love. I can only hope they have learned through life experience, knowledge passed on from my mother, grandmother, and her great grand mother a history they should never forget - The history of white men in America. If they understand that history, they will marry black. If not, they will marry white and hope against hope that the white guy they marry will be different from their grand parents, who just may have supported slavery.
The truth of the matter is no - being married and having a family - is a goal of mine. It's something that I want for myself.
And, I became open to letting others in the 'possibility pool'.
I'm not alone, because nearly everyone of my Sista Friends group has come to the same conclusion.
I think we're dating inter-racially by default. It may not be the most romantic thing to say, but, for me, it's honest.
I have discussions with beautiful, powerful, and UNDESIRABLY SINGLE, at least a few times a month. I know that at least some of these women will inevitably find something (happiness, peace of mind, whatever) with a man who is not black. And SOME of them will find solace with a man who is white.
The numbers demand it.
Unless we're suggesting a radical change in relationship forms, what we have to do is get black women to recognize all of their options.
I didn't realize she was recieving threats. Probably from the same people who caused a well meaining reader to ask me to issue that disclaimer.
I really am not particularly concerned about the issue of interracial marriage in particular, but some of the comments on the blog were very powerful and candid discussions about black women and the need to take care of themselves.
I think everyone is focussing on the interracial marriage issue when we ALL should be appalled that a member of the black blogosphere is being threatened with violence for merely having a discussion.
WhatAboutourDaughters.org
Face it. There's a civil war going on within our community between Black men and women, and until we can settle that and come together, we have no business dating interracially.
I read that at your blog, and was saddened. There is no reason for her to be threatened, and it pisses me off that anyone would even ' go there.'
I take the opposite approach. I think the lack of inter-racial dating has actually INCREASED hostility between black men and women, because black women are forced to compete over a dwindling pool of black men. If these black women pursued other options, it'd free up tension that is now directed towards black women BY black women, and black men by black women.
Lester you have a real point there, it is a numbers issues. Sisters need love, deserve love, and should not wait for love forever and a day. If a sister finds love with our Brown, red, or other ethnic brotha's hey, you won't hear me hating on them.
Yet, as G-E-M 2001 indicated there is a civil war going on within our communities. And if we could speak candidly, a whole bunch of sisters are going out with other sisters, because brotha's are not available.
This is a conversation that needs to be had local and nationally. A national conversation on how to reclaim our own communities. Develop community building strategies within black communities that engage our communities on how to save the next generation of black men from being part of the prison industrial complex. It is something that the afrosphere will need to address as part of its agenda to reclaim our communities, one community at a time. Otherwise this will be a conversation that our daughters and grand daughters will be having, 10-15-and 20 years from now.
It's time for us to get busy.
the question i ask though, is what do we do in the meantime? we can generate all types of interventions, but for the moment, it is what it is. what do we do between "now" and "then"?
rikyrah,
I know I am late to the discussion, but am hopeful you may return.
I interpreted your statement above to mean the pickings are slim for you only because you are a highly educated black woman, and that you seek someone equally degreed. Is that an accurate assessment?
If it is, might I suggest that you are limiting the pickings yourself, not the highly educated black men choosing non-black women?
There are many intelligent, thoughtful, and self-supporting black men who haven't earned college degrees. Give them a chance to love, honor and respect you.
Love is love.
Has that all been obliterated into history?
It should NOT be a political statement when you choose to fall in love with whoever! Marrying black on black or white on white has never been any indicator of a successful union.
Has everyone become some kind of crazy neocon
who's more interested in peoples dating rituals and whether this one should marry that one. Aren't there more pressing issues in our community than this?
Love who God brings to you. If I no longer had the love of my life, I'd gladly marry a Black woman. Or an Asian woman. Or a Latina.
it is usually much much easier for a professional man to date/marry a woman who comes from a different class background. but even here you've got significant challenges. people from different class backgrounds have different social networks, tend to be interested in different endeavors, speak different languages.
in many ways black professional women have more in common with non black professional men than they do with working class black men. it's a tough choice to make whatever the case for black women who prefer to date black men. but while i know a number of successful interracial marriages, i don't know many successful interclass marriages.
All of these good Black women saying that they can't find a good Black man....hmmmm. It makes me wonder...Are you all looking in the right places?
You are not going to find the men you want in the nightclubs.
Then again... there IS a shortage of single, viable Black men... no matter where you look. But I often wonder if this is as bad as people say it is. From reading the comments... it must be pretty bad for Black women.
But not all Black men are in prison, in and out of jail, etc. I think there are other factors/variables in the mix that are contributing to this problem. People have this narrow ideal image of who they want as a partner and they end up excluding potentially good matches, because that person doesn't fit the narrow (often unrealistic) image that they have created. I think that is a big part of the problem as well.
I personally believe that people should date whoever they want without criticism. I have no problem with interracial dating or marriage. And for Black women who have not been able to find what they want within their own ethnic group should feel free to look elsewhere. In fact, they should feel free to look at the whole range of options right from the start.
Who came up with the notion that if you date outside of the race you are anti-Black? I can't agree with that.
Ideally, I would like to someday meet an African American woman (when i'm ready). But I put no limits on who I will date in terms of ethnic group, culture, etc.
When I lived in France, I found a really kind and caring young woman from Cameroon whom I went out with. We're still friends.
Here in Brazil, there were four women who wanted to marry me before I settled down with my wife three years ago, and one since. I don't have much financially, but my wife just wants my love.
I once went out with a Black woman in the United States who said she wanted her husband to buy her a house with five bathrooms. I asked her, "How man bathrooms can you crap in at once?!"
When I was between jobs, but she was not, she became infuriated when I asked her to pick up a check at a restaurant. She screamed at me. When I went out with a white woman in college, we scraped up all the money each of us had and then I scraped the coins from between the seats of my car so that we could see a movie, and this on one of our first dates. We went out together for a year.
I would suggest that Black women come to Brazil, where there are plenty of Black men who would like to marry an America woman and live in the United States. Hard workers and good dancers, too. The problem is that these men are from a poor country where opportunities to get a great education and buy a Lexus are few. And so although they might offer love, be good fathers and hard workers, they're not going to do anything for the status of the status-conscious.
I'm a lawyer, but my wife never went to college. My brother's an engineer, but his wife never went to college. I guess that if I had waited for a college-educated woman - woman who would expect me to buy her a Lexus or at least drive her around in mine, then I might still be alone today.
I'm glad that eventually love and caring were more important to me than status and what other people would think.
When I was in France, I was admiring a woman from Africa whose father was very wealthy. She said she couldn't be interested in me because I could not provide her the sort of affluent lifestyle that she was accustomed to. I wonder if she is still single today, or if she has found someone who can give her affluence?
You have hit the nail right on the head. I was dancing around that snake pit in my earlier post....afraid to step in.
American culture is all about financial status. It is at the heart of everything...including m/f relationships.
But I can't believe that you had all that as an attorney...and you were still alone. I'm still struggling everyday....chasing after what you had so that I CAN start dating. I tried dating once before...and hated it...(because I was limited financially). I was a late starter when it came to dating (started when I hit 30). But I found that I really couldn't compete and date the women that I wanted, because in the U.S., dating is basically a status thing....at least initially.
You rarely find a woman that isn't fixated on money.
Once I attain those material things... I will still hate dating... but at least I will have a respectable income, which allows a guy to have some dating freedom...and confidence. It's a shame though that I have put dating on hold until I reach a certain financial status.
Women (most, not all) of all races are fixated on it.... And as a Black man... you really can't date who you want unless you have a very nice income. The dating pool is very limited for us as well. Plus, I find African American women hard to date (although there are exceptions). And as a Black man, it is hard to date white, or asian women...at least where I live.
The only way that non-Black women will give you a shot is if you are a CEO, Attorney, are from a wealthy family, or you are a pro Sports figure or entertainer. Otherwise it's pretty tough. The Black male image has been battered in this country.
So it is not just Black women who can't find matches. It's so bad that I decided to basically quit. I am concentrating 110% on my professional and personal development instead... hoping that in a few years I can try it again...under better circumstances.
It's sort of a blessing in disguise though... because being single has allowed me to go to school... etc... without all the hassles, headaches and the typical melodrama of a relationship taking up my time. I think that will pay off later on.
And that Rubiks Cube is hell.
But what I would suggest that both of your dating experiences are limited. As such, the best you can say with any degree of accuracy is that the women YOU were interested in, or pursued, were interested in a man with money. I've only dated black women, and of the women I've dated, only ONE fits that category.
As soon as we jump into the "all American women are X" pool, we lose perspective, we demonize people who shouldn't be demonized, and we don't get the story right.
Date whoever you want to. You don't have to offer an explanation to anyone.It isn't any of my business, but please don't throw around blanket generalizations that black women are single by choice or because we are too picky or because we all are ravenous golddiggers who wont be happy with a house with less than 5 bathrooms.
That says less about black women than it does about the women YOU approach. If a woman is demanding 5 bathrooms, I am sure that there is a lot more wrong with her than that unreasonable demand. There are women of all races who have a certain image in their minds about what kind of lifestyle they want a man to provide for them, but there are probably a lot more who are willing to work together to get the 5 bedrooms. And if you aren;t a 5 bedroom kind of guy, then move on.
For most of MY friends and that is all I am qualified to speak about, already have houses. besides a house with 5 bathrooms probably has a helluva utility bill, not to mention property taxes.
Why do we ALWAYS get into this business of arguing the exception as the rule. Just because you think the earth is flat because you've never sailed more than ten feet from the shore, doesn't mean its so.
At the end of the day. People have the right to love whoever they want to love and if the people you want to love are not loving you back then maybe you need to reevaluate where you are looking.
And yes, that means that black women may have to broaden their dating/marriage pool. Why is that any of our business?
name is American Legends and the URL is:
www.americanlegends.blogspot.com
If you want to do this just go to my blog and in one of the comments just write your blog name and the URL and I will add it to my site.
Thanks,
David
Rikyrah hit the nail on the head about being single, Black and educated females looking for the brothas. In my case, I'm in my forties, an educated, single sista with a career that pays well, and when I was in my thirties, my police officer boyfriend threw me over for a crackhead. He was an educated, military vet brother who went to work for Oakland PD.
It's crap like that that forces sistas to look elsewhere. My attitude now is I will love whomever God sends me and the package he comes in, cause people are going to choose who they want, but it must always be for the right reasons, and not PC ones.
Many Brotha's have drama stories to say about sista's.
Sista's call brothers dogs.
Brotha's call sista's loud mouth drama Queens.
Brotha's say they date white women because of less drama, Sista's date white men because they feel more secure, wanted and powerful.
Guess what, I hear yah, sista's who are moving closer and closer to the white men that cause black men pain.
You go Girl! Make it happen.
You don't have to be PC for no one. your mama, your daddy, your girl friends, brotha's - nobody. It's a new century, a new black woman a new white man. Let freedom ring!
No more round robin for me, no more discussion on this issue. This issue is not a black family issue.
Who you sleep with black women is not a black man's business.
It's your's and your's alone.
NOT - I was just venting. This is a black family conversation - that must be continued.
Sole Sisters: The Joys and Pains of Single Black Women (Paperback)
It may provide further fuel for thought. It basically outlines psychological profiles/approaches to being a black, single woman. It's written in a very conversational style.