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Slavery books written by whites made blacks look like these docile creatures that just went along with slavery. Such was definitely not the case, there were many blacks that rebelled and fought back. You want hear about that much though because only whites are portrayed as courageous, brave, and heroes. Some books even make it seem like black women were willing partners in sexual deviations. However, that was not the case, many of them were not women in the first place, they were children as young as 12 years olds, maybe younger, and young teens.
When that 84 year-old woman with alzeheimers, barely able to walk with a cane, was body slammed on the ground and head busted opened, many whites felt the policewoman was doing her job, the old woman had a knife, etc. Come on now, as weak and fragile as that woman was my eight year old granddaughter could have taken that knife from her without body slamming her. The policewoman could have taken it from her with ease. All she had to do was apply a pressure to her wrist and the knife would have dropped out her hand. However, just the other day, a white woman was tasered, the comments from them changed to something needs to be done about police brutality, the woman had no right to be tasered, etc. All of a sudden, the cop wasn't doing his job anymore because it was one of their own. Every time they fail to recognize injustice done to nonwhites, it comes back to bite them, and happens to one of their own. This will continue to happen until they recognize, admit the injustice done to nonwhites, and stop making excuses for their own when it happens to them. Until they come to grips with the fact that all human beings are equal, no one race is better than the other, we're all the same, this same pattern will continue. It will also continue to come back and bite them too.
God don't like ugly and that's the bottom line. When black folks stop trying to transform into whites image and instead transform into a Christlike image and the way God created them be, and embrace their own people for who they are, from the lowest in status to the highest in status and stand united they will come in full power as a people to be recognized.
Major co-sign!!
Same song, second verse, a little bit louder and a little bit worse!!
Exactly. Their men could've been home, some of the women could've been gay and there with their partner, or the women could've been single by choice.
I might go see Anita Baker or Ledisi at Nokia in August.
u should check out the leimert park district if u haven't already.
Granny going back to her little corner now and relax.
I touched upon this issue in the post I did just before CNN's "Black in America 2":
What we’re really talking about is the blessing (or curse) blacks feel to be a spokesperson for the entire race. At the heart of many a controversy isn’t necessarily the issue being discussed, but rather HOW that issue is presented to the rest of America. Admittedly, this concern speaks more of white perceptions (or, better put, blacks’ anticipation of white perception) than the merits of the argument itself.
This often happens when discussing black relationships. Discussions get bogged down in statistics. . . X% of black men are unemployed . . . Y% of black women have never been married. If we’re not careful, both conversations can feed stereotypes of black men and women (i.e. the lonely bitter black woman can’t find a man because there’s no such thing as a good black man - I’m sure you’ve heard it before). The media must be careful to check its facts and present them in the proper context. It’s not enough to regurgitate statistics and draw blind conclusions. There are lies, damn lies and statistics. And people have gone out of their way to disprove commonly held assumptions about black men and women when it comes to relationships. Their voices aren’t always heard.
http://reachblack.blogspot.com/2009/07/black-in...
I have a problem with a lot of "relationship" discussions because I don't believe that most problems can be attributed to social trends, demographic studies, etc. Relationships are personal in nature. Most people coming into these conversations do so from their personal experiences. Personal experiences . . . not necessarily facts. And I don't automatically blame men for the failure of a relationship. Some people (male or female) are experts on failed relationships precisely because they have led a history of bad decisions and/or behavior. When a person starts listing six or seven bad relationships they've been in, it might help to examine the common denominator.
Now, compound that with race and you've got a whole new set of circumstances. I will say this . . .
I think it would be in our best interest to study the manner in which stereotypes of black men feed stereotypes of black women (and vise versa).
And as an FYI . . .
For what it's worth, the statistics show that black men are also much less likely to have ever been married. The Census showed that roughly 42-43% of black men have never been married vs. 40-41% of black women (raw stats, I don't have the stats based on education, etc.).
Some of these studies do more to divide black people than help.
I've seen it far too many times. Add societal standards of "beauty" and "masculinity" and you've really got a mess on your hands. Black men and women tear each other down and get so caught up in disrespecting each other that some even begin to praise white men and women as the golden standards of beauty and masculinity and promote the "white is right" argument as a solution to all of their troubles (btw, I'm not against interracial marriage, etc., I just think some - perhaps an extremely vocal minority - do it for the wrong reasons - i.e., status, etc.).
The difference between the numbers as they apply to white men and women as opposed to black is that most discussions involving our white counterparts don't devolve into disrespectful gender wars about "bitter black women" and "trifling black men."
I've seen it far too many times. Add societal standards of "beauty" and "masculinity" and you've really got a mess on your hands. Black men and women tear each other down and get so caught up in disrespecting each other that some even begin to praise white men and women as the golden standards of beauty and masculinity and promote the "white is right" argument as a solution to all of their troubles
BINGO!
Yep!! If you BELIEVE you are who they tell you are..you ARE that!
Here's one of the sources for the "never married" stat (apparently a separate category from the percentage of men/women who were married at the taking of the Census). It's the same source used by Flash1 above.
http://www.census.gov/prod/2003pubs/c2kbr-30.pdf
pages 3-4 are of interest.
It is generally that portion of the population who has been the most oppressed and limited where education has been concerned; consequently, black females know that in order to escalate their conditions in the world, education is not even a question: IT IS A NECESSITY. For if females are not educated, it stands to reason that their/hope children have little hope.
Do not limit your options to one race of men; the "best"mate is the one with whom you have more in common and share compatability; the one who will be the best mate for you and the best parent for your children; the one who can best take care of his household with you two as partners.
Do not allow the Black Community to undermine you should your choice be for a male other than a Black male - there are mosre than the options of black and white in this work; we all know what the stats are in meeting a man with whom you are "equally yolked"
Don't short-change yourself and settle for the sake of feeling the need or pressure [especially by family members] to be married and have children.
At the end of the day, single-parenting adoption is something that is a viable option for those of us not incliend to opt for pregnancy; the upside to being female is that we CAN decide to have children, when we decided to, because we are the ones who are the birthgivers.
I have a daughter as well, [whom I have given the same advice as in this comment list] and having just graduated from law school, she is amongst the young Black females desiring marriage and children; consequently, she too is having difficulty finding a suitable mate.. almost 30, she knows this, and is living her life to the very fullest despite this issue over which she knows she has no control.
So, take it for what you will, from an woman who has been around and knows the score. This comment is not intended to offend, so please.... no nasty responses are even necessary.
Thank you all.
Peace.
~R~
I'm interested in your line of "she knows this, and is living her life to the very fullest despite this issue over which she knows she has no control."
Why does she have "no control?" Because of the small pool of "quality black men?" Is it more where she lives? Does she engage others in conversation or attempt to put herself in social situations?
Also, is she willing to engage men in conversation and even "make the first move," so to speak? Some women are more traditional, to be sure, but love and relationships are a two way street, so there's no sense in being overly passive.
To clarify what I meant by what my daughter knows; the issue [not herself]over which she has not control and as a result is living her life to the fullest:
She, [in keeping with the topic of this conversation] as with many, and especially black women, understands that finding a mate, especially given her credentials, is no easy feat these days. The "no control" of what I spoke has more to do with the reality of the situation a dynamic over which no one has any control...we don't control demographics nor the considerable shortage of males whom she would consider on her level. For black women, this is nothing particularly new; it has simply become more of reality over the decades, especially given the degree with which females have overtaken males in college education. That is what I meant by a dynamic over which she, nor anyone else, has any control.
She is very outgoing and gregarious; friendly, helpful, smart, intelligent and yes.. even quite pretty. She is, I must hasten to add, a social butterfly as well. By living her life to the fullest, I meant that she is not waiting for the "right one" to appear... she's just living and enjoying her life to the fullest. I cannot be much clearer than that. All her good qualities is [still] no guarantee of finding an appropriate male for a spouse and potential father for any children she may have.
She/we live in NYC where there is a true diversity of all races -- and she is not in search particularly, of a black man. She actually dates outside her race. And... make no mistake, she wants a family and a husband.. not necessarily in that order. She'd like the husband first. It's just that she's been persuing her education and tells me she just hasn't come across anyone with whom she knows anything serious will arise basically because the ones she has dated lack what she requires. Nothing against them, it's simply that she was reared to not settle for what she doesn't want, and just to be able to say that she "has a boyfriend."
She has traveled extensively, to all the continents except for Antarctica, all before 30 years of age; is well-read and compassionate. She's hardly what I'd consider "traditional", or a shrinking violet, and has no problem with being the initiator; however, she like many women [myself included] do become weary of making all the moves where men are concerned.
A woman's education should not be a deterrent for men being more assertive; and that is something that she and I both agree upon -- and there is 26 years between us. She is definitely not passive. If you got that impression from my previous communique, you may've misread or misunderstood me. Or, maybe it was simply my miscommunication via this medium.
In any event, the topic of this peaked my attention because it is not an abberation -- it's quite real. Many women ARE opting out of marriage/children, and frankly I've always been of the opinion that it is better to not become involved in such a serious undertaking as marriage and children simply because that is what is expected - especially of women.
Thank you again for your response. I hope I have satifactorily responded.
~Robin504~
I try to be as honest as possible.
R504
this 'study' is flawed on so many levels.
I will be honest with you, I do not wish for my daughters to be alone when they become adults but, then again I do not wish for them to date anything but a black man. Call it selfish or even racist on my part but, I certainly hope they have options that include a variety or good, hard working black men to choose from.
I myself do not believe that there is any kind of mass exodus of black men leaving black woman for white woman or other races. I can only base that on my experiences, attending an HBCU, where although there was more woman to men but, still a majority of those woman had many good, educated black men to choose from. Many of those woman are married now to many of these very same men.
Don't know all I know is it just doesn't seem as bad as all of that but, what can I say I was married to my wife 2 weeks after graduating college(lol)...
However, I knew by the time I was about 16 that I wasn't attractive to the young heterosexual black men in high school and even in college. The ones who were equal in education and smarts were too busy trying to game the white women and girls. After a while, I knew this wasn't my problem.
Certain younger black men seem to be attracted to me, however. Since I am in my mid-fifties, I'd rather be with a (any color/culture) man who is at least ten years younger and is a college graduate and careerwise. Otherwise, I tend to think I am raising the guy. No man after the age of 30 should be raised.
I'm like the still lovely Michelle Pfeiffer, I hate the word, 'cougar'. Most of the time, I am not looking for anybody...until somebody suddenly pops up.
My daughter had the same problem dating to her undergrad days with the balck guys. They were indeed, as she said, trying to get with the white girls, who had NO issues with throwing themselves at the boys, many of whom were athletes.
Consequently, she has dated males outside her race, though she personally has no issue with men of her own race.
~R504~
I think the difference is for white women who are high achievers is that there are more white men around who share their background...and more white men who share their values on achievement. Are you going to serious say it's just plain white oppression that's the overriding explanation for why there are 7 girls for every 1 boy in the average HBCU? Or why the dental, medical and law schools of the HBCUs are full up of foreigners and white people?
Now, those 7 girls don't seem to want a studious achieving boy; they may want a thug. Or that studious achieving boy might be queer. He's out of the pool. And then when those girls turn 35 they say Hey I should have dated those non-slick egomaniacs. That's an element, but even that doesn't explain but 10% of the problem.
Another big chunk of the problem: we men ourselves. Period.
Another is the image of us as couples, as men. Manufactured nonsense in Tyler Perry movies and TV.
There is nothing "plain" about white oppression.
Another big chunk of the problem: we men ourselves. Period.
I agree. ;-)
Contrary to generations born in the 50s, today afro-americans are very narrow minded and very much look/behave the same.
If it was not because of the mentioned "closeness", those well educated ladies wouldn't have no difficulties in marrying people from around the world, after all educated people direct or indirectly contacts with people from all over the world nowadays.
But the worst thing in this "lack of openness" is that it is centered on myths of What is BLACK.
The fact that most afro-american men lag behind on education IS not the Main reason, WHY marry only those who looks like you only with skin shade as reference?
Educated black women delay marriage and childbearing for career and face a choice. If you want a partner by your mid 30s your choices are severely restricted as the pool of educated men is shrinking as they get married to women in their late 20s. Why? Men who finally want to get married go for younger women less likely to immediately want to start a family. So educated black women face a choice- marry for love within your class or marry for love within your race. Its basically Sophie's choice for a women who have racial consciousness ( not implying that women who marry out dont have consciousness) and wanted to marry an educated black man and start a family. Your choice marry a man who is less accomplished in terms of educational attainment/career than you or marry a man as accomplished as you that may be asian/hispanic or white.
I do think that there is a culture of just being together without the ring in the Black community and there is also the added burden of fighting stereotypes and racist assumptions of non-Blacks--if the woman is open to other races. In addition, Black men are far more likely to actually marry out then Black women--regardless of economic background--so the marriage dearth numbers are still going to be lop-sided for Black women.
I think Black women just face a set of unique set of challneges that other races of women simply do not have to deal with.
You haven't read many books have you? Have you read Marcus Rediker? Winthrop Jordan? Peter Kolchin? betty Wood? All written by whites and they all give voice and agency to black slaves. Those are also amongst the most authoritative works on slavery. Please read before your write factually incorrect material.
Like I said before, I'm going back to my corner and relax. I have a headache and I'm not in the mood today.
I'm reading a GREAT book right now called The Rising Song of African American Women by Barbara Omolade which "explores the politics and visions of Black feminists in our world today, examines the social and cultural significance of Black women intellectuals, and places the present day work, family, and sexual experiences of most Black women within their historical backgrounds..."
now, there are studies on THAT that have been done, and weren't taken into account, I believe, by these researchers.
My golf instructor, a black man, told me I was going to have a problem finding a suitable partner because I hold 2 graduate degrees. He then proceeded to tell me how is similarily educated sister didn't get married until her late 40s.
I have no problem saying that I prefer black men. People are attracted to who they are attracted to. However, I also am becoming more open to others. Anymore, having a drama free, positive relationship is my top priority.
i have a 21-year-old son who will be a senior this fall. he and his friends have dated the rainbow, but more often than not i've seen them with black young women (even his friends who are not black). men that young aren't really interested in hardcore relationships anyway, trust me (especially if you are at a serious university). they really are very concerned with their studies.
just have fun and don't sell young black males short.
we'll probably see these things get rehashed through the years. i'm personally waiting for the "black man as endangered species" farce to get thrown up again. oh wait--the variation on that one is the "more black men in PRISON than in college" myth. yeah...that one's not true.
i agree with chris--that this is not an issue specific to black women, and would argue that it affects white females much more significantly (their numbers are seriously dwindling ). it's presented as 'problematic' for black women without respect to choice. sooooo... we're pathological if we have children in our teens or early 20s; we're pathological if we divorce; we're pathological if we have 'too many' children; we're pathological if we have 'too few', et cetera, et cetera.....
god, folks lack creativity. where's the CREATIVITY?????
god, folks lack creativity. where's the CREATIVITY?????
Well Said!!!!!
Okay! I have so much I want to put into this comment but I fear that it will be too long. Soooo...I will list some of the problems (since I have a problem with the entire article) that I have with this "benevolent" study done on "us" black women:
1. Yale
2. Natalie Nitsche
3. Hannah Brueckner
4. U.S. Census Bureau
5. MSNBC
1. Pool of ‘ suitable’ mates
2. The imbalance between Black women and Black men in higher education
3. Inter-racial marriage as both problem and possible solution
The BIG missing piece of information, women in general, for 20 years, graduated at higher rates than their male counterparts AND for whatever reason, Black women do not cross racial lines to seek spouse as often as Black men.
Most think tanks won't pay US to do OUR OWN RESEARCH, but will pay those who know NOTHING about their subject matter to complete such research and present their findings as STATISTICAL FACTS.
I'm sick of being researched when the results are going to be used against me and NOT TO HELP ME.
Forgive me, I am obviously tone deaf on this issue and simply do not understand the angst that I reading. From my vantage point, yes, there are Black women who went into the corporate or other sectors and shattered the glass ceiling. While breaking the ceiling, time passed and during its course some of these women made decisions to remain single.
These sistahs are CEO-ready, POTUS-ready, Fortune500-ready, and any other top of the pyramid position-ready. The bush administration restructured government pay grades and rewrote personnel management policies targeting and with the goal of purging high numbers of sisters collected at the top of government.. Black women operate from places in this society where they wield incredible POWER and yet defy "Power corrupts". Sistahs of this stature gives real meaning to When and Where I Enter: The Impact of Black Women on Race and Sex in America. That's not a bad thing, is it?
Speaking of other studies on same topic using POC, IIRC Howard Univ. conducted a similar study several years ago, if I can find it, I'll post later.
(source: http://www.census.gov/prod/2003pubs/c2kbr-30.pdf)
So while yes as a whole things are kinda rough BUT as more women realize they are part of a global market and expand their dating pools this will start to change. Noticing more bw/non-bm relationships exist will help also. That article discusses the difficulty for those women who DON'T expand and don't choose caliber.
The Free Your Mind dating event will go national and will also help. As blog host Evia says: MATE OUT or DIE OUT.
http://actsoffaithinloveandlife.blogspot.com/20...
Also I wouldn't necessarily consider single motherhood adoption without considering what you're getting into:
http://muslimbushido.blogspot.com/2009/07/yet-a...
At the same time, eligible batchelors were most often interested in browns/whites/long hair..not realizing that in that process, their boodline is weakened. Life is always about choices. Settling does not make it easier. Black women can only continue to push to make themselves and the race stronger. Those of us who are mothers want our girls working to lift themselves from poverty.. and unfortunately that at time means being alone.
For so many wonderfully educated, talented black women-- that's the way it is. Just cannot have our cake and eat it too. Few of us ever have such luxury.
I don't tolerate foolish and uniformed comments well.
I'll say this for dating out: It has given me wayyyy more options than sticking with "nothing but a black man"; you get all the colors of the rainbow. I'm dating a nice Puerto Rican man now. We have been going steady for three years. The more options you give yourself, the more success you will have! Once you realize there are millions of non-black men out there, you see there really isn't a man shortage at all.
For many, however it IS about not being regarded en par with other groups as it relates to hair color, hair texture, facial features, to the size of your hips. Most women want to be pursued and white men or other groups are less inclined to make that move with Black women for lots of reasons (most of them racist and based on some stereotype.)
I am not saying it is always the case, but I can say that MANY of my own friends are willing to date outside of their race, but these white, Asian, or Latino men who say they would date outside of their race aren't necessarily making that move.
I was talking with a friend of mine who is culturally Dominican and African American (a lawyer, former dancer, and Baptist Christian woman,) and she would like to marry an African American man. She says so, not me. Anyway, she signed up for Match.com due to my begging. Two weeks into her membership she called me to share her disappointment and anger in the process. According to her she was shocked at the number of Black men who did not indicate Black women in their preferences. According to her they were open to everyone but Black women. She felt emotionally assaulted and I did not blame her at all.
Now this is not research. This is not data. It is only one person's story, but if these Black men (on Match at minimum) are not open to dating Black women, should or can we assume that other groups would be MORE open to dating Black women? I think not. Black men have had the direct experience of being raised by loving Black women, and still they choose others.
It could be the age range--if she is over 35-then Black men have no compunction in exing out Black women and if the Black women is interested in non-Black men--then she will also have to deal with their reluctance and racist assumptions. If she is willing to open up her options--date younger--maybe she can meet up with someone more open minded or who is foreign. She should also try differnt dating sites--Match is known as a glorified hook up site and where self imposed players trall.
Dating is hard.
Your last line,
"Black men have had the direct experience of being raised by loving Black women, and still they choose others."
Stung.
As a young black girl, must I constantly be reminded that I am completely undesirable.
Thank You.
I am very sorry that what I said stung you. That was definitely not my intention but wholeheartedly acknowledge the impact on you. It was my intention to express that despite what positive experiences certain Black men (at least the one's "in question," and the one's I talked about specifically related to Match . com,) are choosing to accept racist ideas and even perpetuate stereotypes about Black women despite having really positive experiences with Black women too.
Again, I apologize for hurting you but I do hope that someone who has perhaps chosen to prefer all races of women (including Latinas) BUT Black read what I wrote- and maybe that provoked critical thought.
I'm not trying to pimp your pain. I was trying to advocate for what I believe is right and call out what I believe is decisively ignorant behavior. In my opinion, you cannot love your Black mother, aunts, and sisters and then ACTIVELY dismiss other Black women for being Black. It's dead wrong.
I hate that you are hurt. I hate that my friend is hurt. I can be a ferocious advocate. Next time, I'll tone it down.
I know I may travel in black circles a lot, black church, black college alumni functions, involvement with young black achievers organizations, raised in a black neighborhood, etc. etc.
So maybe that has given me a skewed view in some way but, I just know so many black men that love and adore black woman. I mean I admit, there is also no shortage of examples of black men who disrespect and do no honor black woman.
But, a lot of those same men disrespect and do not honor woman period...
I saw a documentary called...Soulmate (?) about this very subject. One of the women featured was a 44 year old virgin waiting for an AA Mr. Right. It was as depressing as this story is, but was made by an AA female.
As a race, I don't feel that we value or respect marriage enough. I also think we have too much baggage between the genders. If I ever get back into the dating scene, I think I'll give the brothers a miss. It just seems like it's too much hassle.
Please explain "AA" males and females. And what you meant by "give the brothers a miss". Please excuse my ignorance here.
But, I tend to disagree with you feeling we as a race do not value marriage enough. I believe as a race, there are fewer races who DO respect it as much as do Blacks. What I Do tend to believe is just as the moral fiber of our respective and collective communities has eroded, so does the perception that we do not value the sanctity of marriage. That degenerating moral fiber spans across the board to practically all things within the family. Up to and including us being afraid of our own children.
I think it an expansive idea to try men of ALL races, if possible; or at least not limit oneself to just one race.
~R504~
I learned real quick that I could I either sit at home on Friday night, moaning and groaning about my single status, or I could give that White guy a chance to take me out and get to know me. Some were great guys and some where assholes. Some were flings and some were long term relationships (like the one I'm in now).
When it all comes down to it, I just want to get to know a guy and see where it goes. I don't want to miss out on Mr. (Almost) Wonderful because he doesn't look the way I thought he should.