Jack and Jill Politics - Latest Comments in Black Women—get an education, give up the chance for marriage and family?

Re: Black Women—get an education, give up the chance for marriage and family?

Jane Doe — Sat, 21 Jul 2012 15:56:57 -0000

Actually, there's research proving that education helps black women in the marriage market. Not having an education would keep bw poor.

Re: Black Women—get an education, give up the chance for marriage and family?

Tyrone Harvey — Mon, 23 May 2011 14:59:17 -0000

Mr. Roland Martin　You reported on some website that stated that “black women were less desirable”! Well if they base it on the images shown on black TV sitcom and black and white movie that black women are in. Or reality shows like Housewives of Atlanta“Basketball wives” THEY ARE RIGHT!!!! NeNe acted like a ghetto stupid angry disgrace! By the way her black husband is divorcing her black a##! Lisa Ray is not what I want my daughter to grow up and BE LIKE! Her black husband divorce her black a##! And Tami is too stupid too ghetto and too violent! THAT IS NOT DESIRABLE! This idiot was fighting over a man that left her broke busted! Slept with everybody but her during their marriage! Tami is not only NOT desirable. She is crazy! Love &Hip Hop” is pathetic and the women are total ghetto stupid! Have you seen the black females that appear on Maury or The Jerry Springer Show? Are they desirable? I say hell NO! Then turn on Judge Joe Brown and Judge Mathis and watch those black females. Are the desirable? TVONE have ran black sitcom of the pass that depict black females as fat and unattractive loud and stupid! Horrible diction and on Love That Girl the receptionist was out right stupid and over the top! Pure ghetto disgraceful and very very undesirable! The hand waving head bobbing ghetto stupid black female. Get more air time then black respectable females! Tyler Perry is very guilty of the ghetto fat stupid black female! So hell yes! That website in right! Those black females are less desirable! Every sitcom that black female are in . Have fat black and many time stupid black female! Nasty attitude and hand waving head bobbing black women are glorify in black TV and black movie! Turn on black radio station and just listen to the black females calling in. They sound ignorant and undesirable! Oh Yeah and look at what white sitcoms do. They make sure to hire black women that are either bald fat or unattractive! So again that website is right. If it base it on Tv and movie black women!

Re: Black Women—get an education, give up the chance for marriage and family?

Tyrone Harvey — Mon, 23 May 2011 14:59:17 -0000

Re: Black Women—get an education, give up the chance for marriage and family?

tusk91 — Fri, 21 Aug 2009 09:07:31 -0000

Trust me Rhonacocoa, you are not in anyway shape or form completely undesirable as a black woman to black men.

I know I may travel in black circles a lot, black church, black college alumni functions, involvement with young black achievers organizations, raised in a black neighborhood, etc. etc.

So maybe that has given me a skewed view in some way but, I just know so many black men that love and adore black woman. I mean I admit, there is also no shortage of examples of black men who disrespect and do no honor black woman.

But, a lot of those same men disrespect and do not honor woman period...

Re: Black Women—get an education, give up the chance for marriage and family?

evita — Wed, 19 Aug 2009 23:39:39 -0000

I feel like I made an effort to be respectful and share what I believe at the same time.

I am very sorry that what I said stung you. That was definitely not my intention but wholeheartedly acknowledge the impact on you. It was my intention to express that despite what positive experiences certain Black men (at least the one's "in question," and the one's I talked about specifically related to Match . com,) are choosing to accept racist ideas and even perpetuate stereotypes about Black women despite having really positive experiences with Black women too.

Again, I apologize for hurting you but I do hope that someone who has perhaps chosen to prefer all races of women (including Latinas) BUT Black read what I wrote- and maybe that provoked critical thought.

I'm not trying to pimp your pain. I was trying to advocate for what I believe is right and call out what I believe is decisively ignorant behavior. In my opinion, you cannot love your Black mother, aunts, and sisters and then ACTIVELY dismiss other Black women for being Black. It's dead wrong.

I hate that you are hurt. I hate that my friend is hurt. I can be a ferocious advocate. Next time, I'll tone it down.

Re: Black Women—get an education, give up the chance for marriage and family?

Rhondacoca — Wed, 19 Aug 2009 22:49:20 -0000

I understand what you are saying Evita but providing that you are not black you probably feel empowered to point such things out without thinking about the feelings of others.

Your last line,

"Black men have had the direct experience of being raised by loving Black women, and still they choose others."

Stung.

As a young black girl, must I constantly be reminded that I am completely undesirable.

Thank You.

Re: Black Women—get an education, give up the chance for marriage and family?

robin504 — Tue, 18 Aug 2009 09:45:32 -0000

Thank you.

I try to be as honest as possible.

R504

Re: Black Women—get an education, give up the chance for marriage and family?

jadia — Mon, 17 Aug 2009 23:35:53 -0000

agreed! I used to live in LV and no one, black, white, hispanic, etc approached me. I'm back home in Ohio same story. But whe I go to cities on the east coast or in the south I get approached.

My golf instructor, a black man, told me I was going to have a problem finding a suitable partner because I hold 2 graduate degrees. He then proceeded to tell me how is similarily educated sister didn't get married until her late 40s.

I have no problem saying that I prefer black men. People are attracted to who they are attracted to. However, I also am becoming more open to others. Anymore, having a drama free, positive relationship is my top priority.

Re: Black Women—get an education, give up the chance for marriage and family?

rikyrah — Mon, 17 Aug 2009 19:42:20 -0000

great response

Re: Black Women—get an education, give up the chance for marriage and family?

robin504 — Mon, 17 Aug 2009 17:53:50 -0000

I do tend to think that [many] Black females diminish their options by simply "shopping in one store" for a mate. I think one limits one's options in that regard,and as it is, Black males, young, educated in body, mind, & spirit in particular, are unfortunately, fiercely difficult to come by.

Please explain "AA" males and females. And what you meant by "give the brothers a miss". Please excuse my ignorance here.

But, I tend to disagree with you feeling we as a race do not value marriage enough. I believe as a race, there are fewer races who DO respect it as much as do Blacks. What I Do tend to believe is just as the moral fiber of our respective and collective communities has eroded, so does the perception that we do not value the sanctity of marriage. That degenerating moral fiber spans across the board to practically all things within the family. Up to and including us being afraid of our own children.
I think it an expansive idea to try men of ALL races, if possible; or at least not limit oneself to just one race.

~R504~

Re: Black Women—get an education, give up the chance for marriage and family?

robin504 — Mon, 17 Aug 2009 17:41:17 -0000

Thank you!

To clarify what I meant by what my daughter knows; the issue [not herself]over which she has not control and as a result is living her life to the fullest:

She, [in keeping with the topic of this conversation] as with many, and especially black women, understands that finding a mate, especially given her credentials, is no easy feat these days. The "no control" of what I spoke has more to do with the reality of the situation a dynamic over which no one has any control...we don't control demographics nor the considerable shortage of males whom she would consider on her level. For black women, this is nothing particularly new; it has simply become more of reality over the decades, especially given the degree with which females have overtaken males in college education. That is what I meant by a dynamic over which she, nor anyone else, has any control.

She is very outgoing and gregarious; friendly, helpful, smart, intelligent and yes.. even quite pretty. She is, I must hasten to add, a social butterfly as well. By living her life to the fullest, I meant that she is not waiting for the "right one" to appear... she's just living and enjoying her life to the fullest. I cannot be much clearer than that. All her good qualities is [still] no guarantee of finding an appropriate male for a spouse and potential father for any children she may have.

She/we live in NYC where there is a true diversity of all races -- and she is not in search particularly, of a black man. She actually dates outside her race. And... make no mistake, she wants a family and a husband.. not necessarily in that order. She'd like the husband first. It's just that she's been persuing her education and tells me she just hasn't come across anyone with whom she knows anything serious will arise basically because the ones she has dated lack what she requires. Nothing against them, it's simply that she was reared to not settle for what she doesn't want, and just to be able to say that she "has a boyfriend."

She has traveled extensively, to all the continents except for Antarctica, all before 30 years of age; is well-read and compassionate. She's hardly what I'd consider "traditional", or a shrinking violet, and has no problem with being the initiator; however, she like many women [myself included] do become weary of making all the moves where men are concerned.

A woman's education should not be a deterrent for men being more assertive; and that is something that she and I both agree upon -- and there is 26 years between us. She is definitely not passive. If you got that impression from my previous communique, you may've misread or misunderstood me. Or, maybe it was simply my miscommunication via this medium.

In any event, the topic of this peaked my attention because it is not an abberation -- it's quite real. Many women ARE opting out of marriage/children, and frankly I've always been of the opinion that it is better to not become involved in such a serious undertaking as marriage and children simply because that is what is expected - especially of women.

Thank you again for your response. I hope I have satifactorily responded.

~Robin504~

Re: Black Women—get an education, give up the chance for marriage and family?

MLM — Mon, 17 Aug 2009 15:36:15 -0000

Nice write-up, Robin.

I'm interested in your line of "she knows this, and is living her life to the very fullest despite this issue over which she knows she has no control."

Why does she have "no control?" Because of the small pool of "quality black men?" Is it more where she lives? Does she engage others in conversation or attempt to put herself in social situations?

Also, is she willing to engage men in conversation and even "make the first move," so to speak? Some women are more traditional, to be sure, but love and relationships are a two way street, so there's no sense in being overly passive.

Re: Black Women—get an education, give up the chance for marriage and family?

texasladybird — Mon, 17 Aug 2009 14:09:15 -0000

I've been dating interracially since my freshman year of college. Did it have something to do with the small pool of datable Black guys on campus? Sure, but it also had to do with the White guys asking me out.

I learned real quick that I could I either sit at home on Friday night, moaning and groaning about my single status, or I could give that White guy a chance to take me out and get to know me. Some were great guys and some where assholes. Some were flings and some were long term relationships (like the one I'm in now).

When it all comes down to it, I just want to get to know a guy and see where it goes. I don't want to miss out on Mr. (Almost) Wonderful because he doesn't look the way I thought he should.

Re: Black Women—get an education, give up the chance for marriage and family?

tusk91 — Mon, 17 Aug 2009 13:02:18 -0000

Wow, reading the article I just feel that some things are being left out. I do believe there is a disparity of Black men and Black woman not getting married but, the article makes it seem as if the weight is all on Black woman.

I will be honest with you, I do not wish for my daughters to be alone when they become adults but, then again I do not wish for them to date anything but a black man. Call it selfish or even racist on my part but, I certainly hope they have options that include a variety or good, hard working black men to choose from.

I myself do not believe that there is any kind of mass exodus of black men leaving black woman for white woman or other races. I can only base that on my experiences, attending an HBCU, where although there was more woman to men but, still a majority of those woman had many good, educated black men to choose from. Many of those woman are married now to many of these very same men.

Don't know all I know is it just doesn't seem as bad as all of that but, what can I say I was married to my wife 2 weeks after graduating college(lol)...

Re: Black Women—get an education, give up the chance for marriage and family?

robin504 — Mon, 17 Aug 2009 10:52:15 -0000

I totally understand, and I'm a middle-aged woman -- a person has to chart his/her own course when it comes to choosing friends, mates, and just about everything else in life to the extent that we can effect a semblance of control.

My daughter had the same problem dating to her undergrad days with the balck guys. They were indeed, as she said, trying to get with the white girls, who had NO issues with throwing themselves at the boys, many of whom were athletes.

Consequently, she has dated males outside her race, though she personally has no issue with men of her own race.

~R504~

Re: Black Women—get an education, give up the chance for marriage and family?

robin504 — Mon, 17 Aug 2009 10:46:18 -0000

Young Black Females, especially... all I can offer as a middle-aged woman:

It is generally that portion of the population who has been the most oppressed and limited where education has been concerned; consequently, black females know that in order to escalate their conditions in the world, education is not even a question: IT IS A NECESSITY. For if females are not educated, it stands to reason that their/hope children have little hope.

Do not limit your options to one race of men; the "best"mate is the one with whom you have more in common and share compatability; the one who will be the best mate for you and the best parent for your children; the one who can best take care of his household with you two as partners.

Do not allow the Black Community to undermine you should your choice be for a male other than a Black male - there are mosre than the options of black and white in this work; we all know what the stats are in meeting a man with whom you are "equally yolked"

Don't short-change yourself and settle for the sake of feeling the need or pressure [especially by family members] to be married and have children.
At the end of the day, single-parenting adoption is something that is a viable option for those of us not incliend to opt for pregnancy; the upside to being female is that we CAN decide to have children, when we decided to, because we are the ones who are the birthgivers.

I have a daughter as well, [whom I have given the same advice as in this comment list] and having just graduated from law school, she is amongst the young Black females desiring marriage and children; consequently, she too is having difficulty finding a suitable mate.. almost 30, she knows this, and is living her life to the very fullest despite this issue over which she knows she has no control.

So, take it for what you will, from an woman who has been around and knows the score. This comment is not intended to offend, so please.... no nasty responses are even necessary.

Thank you all.

Peace.

~R~

Re: Black Women—get an education, give up the chance for marriage and family?

blksista — Mon, 17 Aug 2009 10:38:00 -0000

I've dated on and off across colors, but primarily with white men. Unfortunately, there are jerks in every color and it seems that I attract them. So I have backed off getting involved; it appears that writing and achievement seems to be more fulfilling at this moment. It's not that I have given up on men...not at all. There just comes a time when one has to develop oneself.

However, I knew by the time I was about 16 that I wasn't attractive to the young heterosexual black men in high school and even in college. The ones who were equal in education and smarts were too busy trying to game the white women and girls. After a while, I knew this wasn't my problem.

Certain younger black men seem to be attracted to me, however. Since I am in my mid-fifties, I'd rather be with a (any color/culture) man who is at least ten years younger and is a college graduate and careerwise. Otherwise, I tend to think I am raising the guy. No man after the age of 30 should be raised.

I'm like the still lovely Michelle Pfeiffer, I hate the word, 'cougar'. Most of the time, I am not looking for anybody...until somebody suddenly pops up.

Re: Black Women—get an education, give up the chance for marriage and family?

ochyming — Mon, 17 Aug 2009 06:04:27 -0000

To me the culprit is the "lack of openness" of afro-americans to other culture. If art mirrors society, then afro-american arts today mirrors its communities.
Contrary to generations born in the 50s, today afro-americans are very narrow minded and very much look/behave the same.

If it was not because of the mentioned "closeness", those well educated ladies wouldn't have no difficulties in marrying people from around the world, after all educated people direct or indirectly contacts with people from all over the world nowadays.

But the worst thing in this "lack of openness" is that it is centered on myths of What is BLACK.

The fact that most afro-american men lag behind on education IS not the Main reason, WHY marry only those who looks like you only with skin shade as reference?

Re: Black Women—get an education, give up the chance for marriage and family?

wasteacher — Mon, 17 Aug 2009 01:33:35 -0000

My sister is 31 w/ master's degree with no prospects for marriage. She dates interracially and always has since she attended prestigious (white) prep school. I have a neice who is 27 with no prospects. I don't think she dates interracially.

I saw a documentary called...Soulmate (?) about this very subject. One of the women featured was a 44 year old virgin waiting for an AA Mr. Right. It was as depressing as this story is, but was made by an AA female.

As a race, I don't feel that we value or respect marriage enough. I also think we have too much baggage between the genders. If I ever get back into the dating scene, I think I'll give the brothers a miss. It just seems like it's too much hassle.

Re: Black Women—get an education, give up the chance for marriage and family?

Guest — Mon, 17 Aug 2009 00:21:07 -0000

I do agree with your observations--especially men who delay marriage in order to jumpstart their careers and then choose a much younger woman to marry-- still White and Asian american women even after the dreaded 35 year mark--delay marriage to jump start their careers as well--and they are still more likely to be married then Black women.

I do think that there is a culture of just being together without the ring in the Black community and there is also the added burden of fighting stereotypes and racist assumptions of non-Blacks--if the woman is open to other races. In addition, Black men are far more likely to actually marry out then Black women--regardless of economic background--so the marriage dearth numbers are still going to be lop-sided for Black women.

I think Black women just face a set of unique set of challneges that other races of women simply do not have to deal with.

Re: Black Women—get an education, give up the chance for marriage and family?

Guest — Mon, 17 Aug 2009 00:13:21 -0000

These are some of the observations that I have seen as well.

It could be the age range--if she is over 35-then Black men have no compunction in exing out Black women and if the Black women is interested in non-Black men--then she will also have to deal with their reluctance and racist assumptions. If she is willing to open up her options--date younger--maybe she can meet up with someone more open minded or who is foreign. She should also try differnt dating sites--Match is known as a glorified hook up site and where self imposed players trall.

Dating is hard.

Re: Black Women—get an education, give up the chance for marriage and family?

Trumystique — Mon, 17 Aug 2009 00:09:05 -0000

All my white girlfriends I went to school with are married- most of my black female friends are not. I just had this conversation last night because this is an issue I face. Originally I wanted to be married by 30. It wasnt happening because in all my grad school there werent too many black men and thats what I wanted. I recently thought to set 35 as the age that if I wasnt married I would adopt. I have reconsidered as it gets close.

Educated black women delay marriage and childbearing for career and face a choice. If you want a partner by your mid 30s your choices are severely restricted as the pool of educated men is shrinking as they get married to women in their late 20s. Why? Men who finally want to get married go for younger women less likely to immediately want to start a family. So educated black women face a choice- marry for love within your class or marry for love within your race. Its basically Sophie's choice for a women who have racial consciousness ( not implying that women who marry out dont have consciousness) and wanted to marry an educated black man and start a family. Your choice marry a man who is less accomplished in terms of educational attainment/career than you or marry a man as accomplished as you that may be asian/hispanic or white.

Re: Black Women—get an education, give up the chance for marriage and family?

CPL — Sun, 16 Aug 2009 23:31:40 -0000

My question is: WHAT RACE ARE NATALIE NITSCHE AND HANNAH BRUECKNER?

Most think tanks won't pay US to do OUR OWN RESEARCH, but will pay those who know NOTHING about their subject matter to complete such research and present their findings as STATISTICAL FACTS.

I'm sick of being researched when the results are going to be used against me and NOT TO HELP ME.

Re: Black Women—get an education, give up the chance for marriage and family?

CPL — Sun, 16 Aug 2009 23:26:54 -0000

Fist in the Air with you on this one, Granny. I don't need to add a thing.

Re: Black Women—get an education, give up the chance for marriage and family?

case123 — Sun, 16 Aug 2009 23:12:21 -0000

SO this article also implies that by NOT pursuing advanced degrees that a black woman some how increases her chances for love and marriage? Why no comparative data for marriage rate between the two? I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that uneducated black women probably have about the same or even less chance for marriage as their educated counterparts. Id love to see real stats, but none are to be found in this article just implications.