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Jack and Jill Politics
A black bourgeois perspective on U.S. politics
Bush Attacks Obama in Israel; Joe Biden Responds-"This is bullshit"
Started by baratunde aka jack turner · 1 year ago
Our President was at it again. Today, he compared Barack Obama to Nazi Appeasers. In Israel.
From The HuffingtonPost.com:
Bush Compares Obama To Nazi Appeasers
The Huffington Post
May 15, 2008 09:00 AM
President Bush has said repeatedly that he would not insert himself into the presidential race, but that stance changed ... Continue reading »
From The HuffingtonPost.com:
Bush Compares Obama To Nazi Appeasers
The Huffington Post
May 15, 2008 09:00 AM
President Bush has said repeatedly that he would not insert himself into the presidential race, but that stance changed ... Continue reading »
1 year ago
A guy whose main reason for invading Iraq (who wasn't bothering us, they were minding their own damn business) was "they tried to kill mah daddy."
A guy who said his big sacrifice for the war in Iraq was giving up golf.
Bush is a clown and he needs to take the ringmaster, the elephants, the trapeze artists and the rest of the circus out of town, never to be heard from again.
1 year ago
1 year ago
And am I the only one cynical enough to think that Biden is auditioning for VP?
1 year ago
-------------
Errybody tryna jump on the Obama bandwagon. I wouldn't be surprised to see Bill Clinton trying to be Obama's VP. LOL
1 year ago
I know he made some unfortunate comments last year about Obama, but they were more clueless than hateful.
1 year ago
1 year ago
Damn right!
I never thought of an Obama/Biden ticket either.
But I agree. If you're willing to call "bullsh*t" on the President, I'd like to explore an Obama/Biden veep a little bit more.
I don't know if he delivers a state. But it'd be nice to have a ticket that fights back like this.
Obama/Biden???????
I'm just sayin'.
1 year ago
"Democratic leadership getting Obama's back? Can it be?"
I was thinking the same thing.
I've been listening to this on talk radio and it seems the Dems are coming out of the woodworks to get Obama's back for once.
Democratic Party uniting behind Obama???? I'll try not to read too much into it, but it's good to see for a change.
1 year ago
1 year ago
Obama/hagel 08
1 year ago
You know it must have been killing KO to have to substitute "hell" for the other word, but the FCC would have been on him like white on rice. Would have been awesome if he had gone there though.
1 year ago
Chris Matthews laid a classic smackdown on Hardball just now!
1 year ago
I saw that, it was hilarious. He made of fool of that man - shut him down!
"Why are your screaming?" "You just don't know what you're talking about!"
1 year ago
Rikyrah
They're talking about the evangelicals again. Wayne Slater said Bush did that slam against Obama in Isreal to bring in the evans - they're threatened.
1 year ago
1 year ago
1st Grampy Prescott mustve turned over in his grave when his Grandson went out and Blasted the Nazi's.
2nd. How much clout does it say Barack has when the Sitting President, the guy the Sitting President replaced, and 2 Senators on the campaign trail are ALL trailing you in the Court of Public Opinion? (you know Hillary cant win either way with this one)
3rd. I dont know if this was a sign of Party unity, but when every major Dem come's back and retaliates on your behalf, clearly it means something.
and 4th..You just know what KO did last night was the warm up after what Bush just did today.
All in all, Im probably in the minority when i say this, but despite WV, this is turning out to be the best week Barack has had .
1 year ago
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp/24655385#24655385
1 year ago
"Would have been awesome if he had gone there though".
-----------------------------------
You too, huh? lol
I love Keith! He don't mind at all!
Bam!
1 year ago
1 year ago
It's not clear why the occasion of Israel's birthday is an inappropriate one on which to assure Israel that the American president does not favor negotiating with terrorists and radicals who are out to destroy Israel.
What's telling here is Obama's defensiveness. Bush didn't say that Obama is among those who favor negotiating with terrorists. But it's understandable that this is a sore point for Obama, inasmuch as, to cite just one problem, his former adviser Robert Malley not only favors negotiating with Hamas but apparently was actually "negotiating" with it.
Obama's reference to former presidents by way of defending his plan to negotate with Iran is unpersuasive. Past presidents negotiated with the Soviet Union and China during the Cold War, but this is not the same thing as negotiating with a state like Iran that sponsors terrorism against both Israel and the U.S. Neither Kennedy nor Nixon did any such thing. It's true that President Reagan made overtures to Iran (arms for hostages and all that), but for this he was widely and properly condemned. It was perhaps Reagan's worst moment.
It's also unprecedented, I believe, for a president to negotiate with an enemy state without pre-conditions, as Obama has promised to do, in order to persuade the world, as Obama puts it, that we aren't "arrogant." Even Hillary Clinton draws the line here. Obama's claim that his diplomacy with terrorist-sponsoring states will be "tough" rings hollow when a purpose of the negotiations is to persuade the world that we've changed and now are suitably humble.
1 year ago
-----------------------------------
Liar! Joe Biden reported that he had credible people to tell him Bush was speaking of Barack!
1 year ago
http://blogs.abcnews.com/theblotter/2008/05/alert-a-new-mes.html
if the link gets truncated the end looks like "mes.html".
1 year ago
"What did he do Kevin?"
"He's an appeaser!"
"Yes but what did he do?"
"He's an appeaser! He appeased."
"You don't know what your talking about."
SWEET!
1 year ago
http://blogs.abcnews.com/theblotter/2008/05/alert-a-new-mes.html
if the link gets truncated the end looks like "mes.html".
1 year ago
1 year ago
I guess the whole Cold War and all the negotiations was convenient theater for the defense industry. Why negotiating with a real nuclear power in which the US was engaged in all kinds of proxy wars all over the global pales in comparison to the threat Iran poses.
Of course, the mere thought of Iran having one bomb vs. the stockpile the former USSR had along with the various countries under Soviet "influence"... Well, it just goes to show you the overactive, reality-altering imagination people have and the lack of consistency in their views.
I mean, no one would dare be arguing for the right to exist of Soviet rule in some territory formerly populated by "Americans." No, the very Red Scare that was there, was all about stopping them from taking over "our" country but, for some reason, Israel has a "right" to do that.
A right to be a "JEWISH" country. WTF is that? That's no different than people insisting that the US has right to be a WHITE/CHRISTIAN country, etc., etc.
Manifest Destiny from sea to shining sea, I guess.
1 year ago
But, wait... This is the same country that is still considered the city on a hill as if the history (and more importantly, the lives) of Native Americans and Africans/African-Americans, e.g., have no relevance in the American story.
That same kind of blindness exist in this Iraq episode... and, to think, Barack Obama had the nerve to talk about seeing things (history and reality) through a narrow/selfish lens.
1 year ago
They seek to drive us from the region and destroy Israel.
They will never give up their plans to build nuclear weapons.
Russia, China and Europe are prepared to accept a nuclear Iran.
Iran will continue to expand its influence, kill American soldiers and assume control of Gaza and Lebanon through its proxies Hamas and Hezbollah.
So, the larger question is how will President Obama respond to an attack on Israel?
1 year ago
We Should Not Celebrate Dispossession
The truth is that lies abound with regarding Iran's involvement in killing American soldiers, etc. But then, the whole WMD storyline was a lie, so what else can we expect but lies. With that TRUTH in full view, we already know how your typical American president will respond to an attack on the US... with the KILLING OF INNOCENT IRAQIS!!
The USofA will never give up plans to kill innocent people and its support of nations, like Israel to do the same... to practice the same kind of historical dispossession and oppression of people whose skin color... [is] a different color than white -- i.e. those who don't qualify for the privilege of "whiteness."
That's the truth of the matter.
1 year ago
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/05/15/tennessee-gop-attacks-mic_n_101967.html
The lowlife mofo-ing cowards are afraid to stand up against Barack so they attack his family! They're nothing more than scared ass wimps!
1 year ago
They find it difficult to paint him as "unAmerican" (read: dangerously Black) because they would have to openly revert to the One-Drop Rule and completely ignore Obama's immigrant story. You know, the one people are willing to use for Asians, Africans or anybody to disparage native, slave-descendant Black folk.
1 year ago
* Foreign Policy
* The Supreme Court and judicial activism
* Taxes
1 year ago
Bush says, "Thanks for spies. They are very very cute. Just like Barney. We'll take them to dinner and in public I'll swing my pee-pee in all mah he man manly glory. Watch for the little pink flash. You'll love it. I do."
1 year ago
Funny watching hair-plugs Biden get all bent out of shape over an "attack" on, in his words, a "clean, articulate black".
1 year ago
That would make Bush the Forgetter In Chief, Anon... LOL
1 year ago
The joke is on Bush. Obama and the Dems are all too happy to take on Bush/McCain. Bush just opened the door to John McCain and the Republicans fall ass kicking.
The dummy and the senile, grumpy old man.
1 year ago
If people actually still believe that Osama bin Laden is appearing in videos....
I expect a reference to Barack Obama.
1 year ago
1 year ago
And, really, you can just STHU about "victimology" when Barack Obama has repeatedly treated Whites, including working-class Whites as VICTIMS without a mumbling word from people like you with them idiotic talking points.
For you to even mouth some bs like "Obama has never done anything to prove he's patriotic" and raise this notion that "Rev. Wright hates America" disqualifies you as a person intelligent enough to even discuss racism.
But I'll give you a chance... Explain that sh*t. What did Rev. Wright say that demonstrated "hate" (and explain what that is) towards "America."
How does a person "hate" America? Or show patroitism?
Wearing a damn flag pin? Giving up golf? What???
Explain what the substantive basis is for ever questioning Obama's patriotism in the first place?
1 year ago
Just shut the fuck up! George Bush was speaking directly about Barack Obama. I know it & you know it as well. The GOP is trembling with fear because their hold on this country is about to be given up. Just suck it up and deal the fuck with it.
Signed:
Kiss My Black Ass
1 year ago
http://www.atlargely.com/2008/05/all-the-preside.html
1 year ago
You refuse to see any legitimate skepticism or concern regarding Obama.
Ahmadjinedad and the Mullahs are determined to kill Americans, drive us from the region and destroy Israel. And you are OK with that.
Pulling out of Iraq regardless of the consequences is unwise and not widely supported by the public.
Most Americans, while against the war, are more moderate in their views regarding withdrawl and favor support for Israel.
There can be no negotiating with self proclaimed enemies who will accept no less than our submission to their will.
Obama's foreign policy approach demonstrates a level of naivete eclipsed only by his willingness to pander to his far-left, blame America first base. He has thrown the base much red meat to chew on, but it will surely spoil before the general election.
1 year ago
Dynamic 1: "The wicked flee when no man pursueth"
Bush attacked appeasement -- and Obama instantly recognized himself, reacting angrily and defensively.
1 year ago
What George Bush did today on foreign soil was despicable! He has run this country into the ground. He lied about a War that shouldn't have ever been authorized, he lied about WMD's, he didn't know the difference between Sunnis & Shiites, he planned a War with no exit strategy & it has cost the lives of over 4000 precious men and women!
That's f%%%ed up!
1 year ago
Get the f***k out of here with that bullshit.
The wicked will flee in November when we run their asses out of office.
1 year ago
The trick is based upon ignorance and inexperience... and that is just what Barack Obama evinced in this humiliating exchange.
Any experienced politician would immediately recognize the offer of Fool's Mate -- and would decline. Consider this response, had the theoretical target been, say, Bill Clinton...
George W. Bush: "We have an obligation to call this what it is -- the false comfort of appeasement, which has been repeatedly discredited by history."
(Bill waits for a question at his current campaign stop)
Reporter: "Mr. President, what do you think of the line about appeasers in the speech by that fascist guy illegally occupying Al Gore's and John Kerry's White House?"
Bill Clinton: "Well, heck, I listened to that speech -- and I couldn't agree more. The president was sure right about that: We can never 'negotiate with the terrorists and radicals,' and I'm glad he understands that. I just wish he would understand that there are some people, heads of state, that you just gotta talk to. I mean, heck, when I was president, I always --" [We skip forty minutes of self praise.]
See, the trick only works if the target publicly recognizes himself as the butt of the speech. If instead he pretends not to notice, then what is the president going to do? He can't out and out say, "and I mean you, Bubba!" because then the target could rightly be outraged.
But Obama was such a green hayseed that he ran pell mell right into the bear trap, flapping his arms and caterwauling like to wake the dead; nobody in America could fail to notice when his leg was grabbed by the steel jaws.
Once the voters notice, they will laugh, because he just made himself look like such a buffoon.
1 year ago
You stupid mofos wish.
Dubya couldn't do anything clever if someone wrote him an instruction manual. Hell, he was barely able to articulate that speech that somebody wrote for him.
1 year ago
You refuse to talk like you got some sense. I've criticized Obama up and and down my damn self so you sound foolish or desperate.
Ahmadjinedad and the Mullahs are determined to kill Americans, drive us from the region and destroy Israel. And you are OK with that.
The state of Israel has dispossessed Palestinians, etc., etc. and you are okay with that. Israel has no special place in my heart and the latest piece of fearmongering doesn't either.
Pulling out of Iraq regardless of the consequences is unwise
STHU!! I didn't say anything about pulling out of Iraq. We've killed untold thosands of INNOCENT IRAQIS and you, apparently, are okay with that.
There can be no negotiating with self proclaimed enemies who will accept no less than our submission to their will.
Quit projecting. That's all that bs is. In fact, that was the very rationale for starting the Iraq war. Iraq wouldn't submit to our will and post-911 bloodlust so we went on a killing spree, killing INNOCENT IRAQIS and you're okay with it and have the nerve to try to pull that same kind of bs regarding Iran.
Same kind overreaching fearmongering. Seriously? Do you even listen to this ridiculous bs before you say it?
Most Americans... favor support for Israel.
Most "Americans" were okay with slavery. Most "Americans" were okay with the racial inequality that existed (and persist). So what they think doesn't amount to jack-scratch to me.
his willingness to pander to his far-left
That dog won't hunt either. "far-left", "blame America first"... Nope!! No rhetorical magic or resonance there for me.
You must be confused. You must have forgotten that you're on Jack and Jill Politics. The political consensus here, indeed the very language of politics, is not in line with your notions.
Now quit bothering me with all these fallacies and hilarious (and idiotic) talking points.
Obama's foreign policy approach demonstrates a level of naivete
And Bush's foreign policy approach demonstrate what? A level of wisdom and maturity? John McCain openly admits he don't know much about economics, openly panders to Blacks at MLK's 40th and in NOLA, can't seem to support the troops when they get back to the US (just like Bush) and you dare open your mouth about Obama?
Get the hell up out of here with that bs!
1 year ago
Have you been hiding under a rock for the past months, moron?
Have you not noticed that Barack is leading with most states won, most popular votes, most pledged delegates, Super Delegates because voters have been VOTING for him! Now who's the f-ing buffoon? You stupid ignorant moron!
1 year ago
But, hey... stupid Anon's says stupid things.
1 year ago
"Hell, he was barely able to articulate that speech that somebody wrote for him.
-----------------------------------
LOL-- You know you're right! He can't even pronounce articulate, less than spell it!
BWA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
1 year ago
1 year ago
1 year ago
1 year ago
1 year ago
Iran has nothing to gain by negotiating with the US.
The stated goals of Iran are to: Drive us out of the region, expand their power and influence by acquiring nuclear weapons and destroy Israel. This is not fearmongering...it is reality.
Europe, China and Russia cannot agree to 'tougher' sanctions.
The UN is feckless and corrupt as an arbiter of sanctions or enforcer of resolutions: Iran rearms Hezbollah in Lebanon via Syria in blatant defiance of a UN Resolution with no consequence and please recall the Oil-for-Food fiasco.
What leverage can Obama possibly provide?
He is promising to pull out of Iraq upon his election, will cede influence and deterrence via a strong military presence providing security for a fledgling democracy in Iraq to Iran.
This will no doubt be played as a defeat for the US and a testimony to our lack of political will.
China and Russia are reliable obstacles to our interests and it can be argued that they benefit from a stronger Iran.
U.S. foreign-policy doctrine has traditionally held that American presidents should be discerning in where and when to use the prestige of their office.
During U.S. engagements with the Soviet Union and China, summits by presidents Reagan and Nixon were withheld to the end of the diplomatic process rather than occurring at the start. U.S. leaders have been averse to photo opportunities with the likes of Cuba's Fidel Castro, fearing it could provide them a propaganda tool.
Sen. Obama could strengthen Ahmadinejad if as U.S. president he moves too quickly to hold direct talks with Tehran's leader. Ahmadinejad is facing presidential elections in 2009 and could use a summit with Sen. Obama as proof of his enhanced stature. Ahmadinejad also could seek to sell to his people that talks with Washington were a direct result of his hard-line stance.
1 year ago
1. Not the best situation for Pres. Bush to make that comment.
2. It does raise a legitimate question on Obama's foreign policy/credentials.
1 year ago
1 year ago
Somebody should give old Georgie a mirror, because evidently he can't remember his own families history or he is such a sociopath that he thinks nobody will remember that it was his grandfather who made his fortune appeasing and supporting the Nazis and was involved in a plot to overthrow the government of FDR.
Talk about Nazi sympathizer! This man is so stupid that he did not realize that by bringing this up he was opening up a can of worms that the Republican Party did not want many people to discuss.
Yes, your idiot leader just handed the Democrats an issue that the court jester George Bush cannot run from.
Oh by the way, when John McCain says Hamas likes Obama and that he should not talk to our enemies, he forgot he said that we should two years ago, and most currently if he and Bush believes that anybody talking to our enemies are appeasers, shouldn't he fire his own secretaries of state and defense, since the sec of defense stated YESTERDAY that we should be talking to Iran, and isn't that what General Patreus did white the Sunnis to get them to stop ambushing our troops so Bush could claim that his surge was working.
This man doesn't even know what his own foreign policy is, yet has the nerve to call someone else a Nazi sympathizer forgetting about his family, forgetting his own cabinet members, and forgetting that he was supposed to representing the US of America not the Republican Party!
Thanks to all the imbeciles who voted for this piece of shit!
1 year ago
The US has nothing to lose by negotiating with Iran.
And who gives a sh*t about "stated goals" that you state someone else has. The US "stated goal" was to bring democracy to Iraq and we knew that was bs from jump. The issue is not what someone says but one they do.
The US has a trashy record of fvcked up actions no matter what the "stated goals" were. Say it with me: INNOCENT IRAQIS KILLED!!!!
The stated goals of Iran are to: Drive us out of the region
After seeing INNOCENT IRAQIS KILLED... exactly what is wrong with that goal? Answer: Not a damn thing when you accord them the same humanity your accord yourself.
If the USSR bombed the sh*t out of Mexico right on the US border in the 80's... I REST MY CASE! If we didn't have the bomb in the 80's and the USSR did and bombed the sh*t out of a neighboring country... I REST MY CASE!!
That's the reality. Israel is not destroyed and Israel can defend herself.
You are engaging in fearmongering with someone your type of bs will never resonate with.
Who the hell is Israel to me? Have you ever asked yourself that question? Do you think the kind of history of duplicity (say one thing but do another) in the US would ever
Do you think I'm fazed by some idea that Iran wants to drive us out the region AS IF WE HAVE SOME UNQUESTIONED RIGHT to be in the region on their border threatening them with the same kind of lies that put us in the region, in Iraq?
I don't share your fvcked up concepts about Israel or the US and these presumed "right to exist" (read: to do whatever the hell we/they want).
China and Russia are reliable obstacles to our interests
To hell with "our" interests. They aren't mine. But go ahead and take some time and define "our" interests...
"Sen. Obama could..."
You COULD do better than spout such speculative-assumptive bs. Nothing has been said about how "quickly" Obama would move to hold direct talks with Ahmadinejad. Nothing says Ahmadinejad stature will be enhanced save for in mind of people who make such idiotic, automatic assumptions.
History defies your lies. There is no evidence in all the Israel-Palestinian peace talks that meeting with Arafat, e.g., enhanced his stature. Arafat was demonized regardless.
So stop spouting foolishness. And, with the peace talks as a model, COMMON SENSE says that the reputation of those engaged in talks are colored by how they perform/respond IN THE TALKS.
What are you afraid of? Ahmadinejad not fitting the boogey man stereotype?
Sorry, I don't do inexplicable, unfounded FEAR.
We have nothing to lose and there is nothing you can say to me about negotiations when what happened with N. Korea???
What happened with the USSR? The had stockpiles of nukes. And their "state goals" were what, S?
You might as well come out with it and stop beating around the bush.
1 year ago
Could one of you fellow travelers DETAIL where Bush specifically said anything about Obama?
I hit dog will holla' though.
Wouldn't it have been more logical for Obama to say "Bush you are correct. No one should appease terrorists. I agree with you.
However I do believe that we should take a strong position, dialogue with them - as I have stated before and turn military conflict into peace."
Regardless of what Obama ACTUALLY says - you all will follow.
1 year ago
WTF, do you really want to be an African-American Woman?
I mean a real African-American woman would tell you to stop hiding behind their skirts to make these crazy statements and stand up and Man Up if that is what you are or aspire to be. I mean, quit using African-American women to state your bull shit, one of them is going to whup your sorry ass!
Talk about being an African-American woman, to say that Black men are not true patriots, again WTF are you talking about? Black women have supported Black men for centuries and I don't know one who utter such BS.
Try something else, maybe be yourself for a change: A scared, little white boy who sits at a keyboard spouting irrelevant statements trying to either interject nonsense into the discuss to deflect or misdirect, or just a plain old sorry ass, good for nothing, who has little to offer white boy nobody wants to be associated with who thinks George Bush is a great man! You pick you little ass!
1 year ago
Anon 8:31 gave herself away, IMO, when you talked about being "proud."
She fully exposed herself in the nude with accepting as legitimate questions about Obama's and Rev. Wright's patriotism.
I mean, Bush has all these big oil ties, has overseen an economy that's taking a nose dive while his big oil counterparts are making record profits and its Obama's "patriotism" - i.e. commitment to the country - that's questioned?
I would agree that it's wrong to assume that a person's seeking office is truly committed to country vs. self. That's why I wonder how Bush's patroitism isn't questioned along with a boatload of politicians. But then again, Bush has shown just how gullible "many Americans" are.
Wrap a turd up in a flag and some will see it as priceless gold nugget.
1 year ago
No one's said you-or anyone else-couldn't question Pres. Bush's patriotism. I imagine people do it every day.
But don't get pissed off because Obama is getting called on his.
Hell, I almost want to question your patriotism for suggesting that we "wrap a turd up in a flag" to make it seem more appealing. That's a lot offensive.
1 year ago
As an American we can take that flag, wrap it up and put it in the toliet IF we wished.
That's one of the priviledges of being an American.
How unpatriotic of you to question someone else's right to be American by being able to possess all the rights that implies UNLESS their are levels of Americanism which you and your ilk are privy to that the "others" of us are not?
Enlighten me, no pun intended of what and who is an American Patriot?
1 year ago
Stop making stupid posts. If there is anybody's patriotism that should be questioned in the media, day in and day out, it's Bush's. That was perfectly clear from what I said.
But, no. Bush is given a pass just because he wrapped some sh*t in a flag.
And, go ahead. Question my patriotism and watch me laugh at you for trying something that does not compute. Like my feelings would be hurt. Like your definition of patriotism has any resonance with me.
You would be a fool to think that I would be fazed and I don't care about you being a prude.
Consult Frederick Douglass...
Come back when you deal with how that US flag, like the Confederate flag when it was fully recognized, flew over the institutions of slavery, Jim Crow and how it continues to fly over continued-persistent racial inequality.
Come back when you can explain how/why GULLIBLE people are to flag waving. You sound like you might be that type taking offense because I said BUSH could "wrap a turd up in a flag" and mindless Americans would get swept up in, truth be told, racialized nationalistic, blood thirsty "pride" at the expense of American lives and domestic economics.
And let's get one thing straight... I'm not "pissed" because Obama is getting called out for... WHAT??
Notice the difference, D. I've criticized Bush for what he has done. You're okay with Obama being questioned based one racist and ideological assumptions not based on an concrete, material thing Obama has done.
Bush big oil vs. Obama flag pin?
There is no comparison and it shows a lack emphasis on substance. But then, you're all off into that symbolism stuff.
1 year ago
Let's not even riase to the level of "patriotism"-no American who loves this country and has a deep appreciation for not only its greatness, but its potential for greatness, should even WANT to descrate the flag.
1 year ago
I love this country as much as the next American, but refuse to get caught up in appeals to my pride in being an American at the expense of somebody's else's right to express their opinion, whether I agree with it or not -- unless, you are representing me as the POTUS to another country and brings partisan political issues into an event that should not have been used for such arrogance.
He did it because he could and he was the one who wrapped himself in the flag and gave the rest of us the finger -- now who's the patriot.
1 year ago
We agree that wasn't the best time for Pres. Bush to make that point.
I don't feel like I got the finger from him. But that's just me.
1 year ago
1 year ago