Jack and Jill Politics - Latest Comments in Bush Attacks Obama in Israel; Joe Biden Responds-"This is bullshit"

Re: Bush Attacks Obama in Israel; Joe Biden Responds-"This is bullshit"

freespiritbeautee — Fri, 16 May 2008 18:36:00 -0000

Nquest, much respect. *daps*.

Re: Bush Attacks Obama in Israel; Joe Biden Responds-"This is bullshit"

K. Thomas — Fri, 16 May 2008 14:12:00 -0000

FUCK THE FLAG!!! There I said it and it doesn't make me more or less patriotic. I live in Georgia and we've had a flag flying above our capital with stars and bars for years... Although they've changed it a little, the old traces of the Confederacy can be seen in the flag... South Carolina still flies a flag that suggest they do not want to break ties with the past... So again... FUCK THE FLAG.... Wooo! I'm so patriotic... It's called freedom of speech!!!!

Re: Bush Attacks Obama in Israel; Joe Biden Responds-"This is bullshit"

D. — Fri, 16 May 2008 13:35:00 -0000

Peg,
We agree that wasn't the best time for Pres. Bush to make that point.

I don't feel like I got the finger from him. But that's just me.

Re: Bush Attacks Obama in Israel; Joe Biden Responds-"This is bullshit"

SquarePeg — Fri, 16 May 2008 13:20:00 -0000

It's not that we would descrecrate the flag D, it's that we have the RIGHT to do so.

I love this country as much as the next American, but refuse to get caught up in appeals to my pride in being an American at the expense of somebody's else's right to express their opinion, whether I agree with it or not -- unless, you are representing me as the POTUS to another country and brings partisan political issues into an event that should not have been used for such arrogance.

He did it because he could and he was the one who wrapped himself in the flag and gave the rest of us the finger -- now who's the patriot.

Re: Bush Attacks Obama in Israel; Joe Biden Responds-"This is bullshit"

D. — Fri, 16 May 2008 12:44:00 -0000

No true patriot-at least not any that I know-would desecrate the flag in ANY way.

Let's not even riase to the level of "patriotism"-no American who loves this country and has a deep appreciation for not only its greatness, but its potential for greatness, should even WANT to descrate the flag.

Re: Bush Attacks Obama in Israel; Joe Biden Responds-"This is bullshit"

Nquest — Fri, 16 May 2008 11:41:00 -0000

D,

Stop making stupid posts. If there is anybody's patriotism that should be questioned in the media, day in and day out, it's Bush's. That was perfectly clear from what I said.

But, no. Bush is given a pass just because he wrapped some sh*t in a flag.

And, go ahead. Question my patriotism and watch me laugh at you for trying something that does not compute. Like my feelings would be hurt. Like your definition of patriotism has any resonance with me.

You would be a fool to think that I would be fazed and I don't care about you being a prude.

Consult Frederick Douglass...

Come back when you deal with how that US flag, like the Confederate flag when it was fully recognized, flew over the institutions of slavery, Jim Crow and how it continues to fly over continued-persistent racial inequality.

Come back when you can explain how/why GULLIBLE people are to flag waving. You sound like you might be that type taking offense because I said BUSH could "wrap a turd up in a flag" and mindless Americans would get swept up in, truth be told, racialized nationalistic, blood thirsty "pride" at the expense of American lives and domestic economics.

And let's get one thing straight... I'm not "pissed" because Obama is getting called out for... WHAT??

Notice the difference, D. I've criticized Bush for what he has done. You're okay with Obama being questioned based one racist and ideological assumptions not based on an concrete, material thing Obama has done.

Bush big oil vs. Obama flag pin?

There is no comparison and it shows a lack emphasis on substance. But then, you're all off into that symbolism stuff.

Re: Bush Attacks Obama in Israel; Joe Biden Responds-"This is bullshit"

SquarePeg — Fri, 16 May 2008 11:25:00 -0000

d,

As an American we can take that flag, wrap it up and put it in the toliet IF we wished.

That's one of the priviledges of being an American.

How unpatriotic of you to question someone else's right to be American by being able to possess all the rights that implies UNLESS their are levels of Americanism which you and your ilk are privy to that the "others" of us are not?

Enlighten me, no pun intended of what and who is an American Patriot?

Re: Bush Attacks Obama in Israel; Joe Biden Responds-"This is bullshit"

D. — Fri, 16 May 2008 11:12:00 -0000

Nquest,
No one's said you-or anyone else-couldn't question Pres. Bush's patriotism. I imagine people do it every day.

But don't get pissed off because Obama is getting called on his.

Hell, I almost want to question your patriotism for suggesting that we "wrap a turd up in a flag" to make it seem more appealing. That's a lot offensive.

Re: Bush Attacks Obama in Israel; Joe Biden Responds-"This is bullshit"

Nquest — Fri, 16 May 2008 10:59:00 -0000

acanthus,

Anon 8:31 gave herself away, IMO, when you talked about being "proud."

She fully exposed herself in the nude with accepting as legitimate questions about Obama's and Rev. Wright's patriotism.

I mean, Bush has all these big oil ties, has overseen an economy that's taking a nose dive while his big oil counterparts are making record profits and its Obama's "patriotism" - i.e. commitment to the country - that's questioned?

I would agree that it's wrong to assume that a person's seeking office is truly committed to country vs. self. That's why I wonder how Bush's patroitism isn't questioned along with a boatload of politicians. But then again, Bush has shown just how gullible "many Americans" are.

Wrap a turd up in a flag and some will see it as priceless gold nugget.

Re: Bush Attacks Obama in Israel; Joe Biden Responds-"This is bullshit"

SquarePeg — Fri, 16 May 2008 10:54:00 -0000

Anon Who Says He is an AA Women,

WTF, do you really want to be an African-American Woman?

I mean a real African-American woman would tell you to stop hiding behind their skirts to make these crazy statements and stand up and Man Up if that is what you are or aspire to be. I mean, quit using African-American women to state your bull shit, one of them is going to whup your sorry ass!

Talk about being an African-American woman, to say that Black men are not true patriots, again WTF are you talking about? Black women have supported Black men for centuries and I don't know one who utter such BS.

Try something else, maybe be yourself for a change: A scared, little white boy who sits at a keyboard spouting irrelevant statements trying to either interject nonsense into the discuss to deflect or misdirect, or just a plain old sorry ass, good for nothing, who has little to offer white boy nobody wants to be associated with who thinks George Bush is a great man! You pick you little ass!

Re: Bush Attacks Obama in Israel; Joe Biden Responds-"This is bullshit"

Constructive Feedback — Fri, 16 May 2008 10:48:00 -0000

Excuse me.

Could one of you fellow travelers DETAIL where Bush specifically said anything about Obama?

I hit dog will holla' though.

Wouldn't it have been more logical for Obama to say "Bush you are correct. No one should appease terrorists. I agree with you.

However I do believe that we should take a strong position, dialogue with them - as I have stated before and turn military conflict into peace."

Regardless of what Obama ACTUALLY says - you all will follow.

Re: Bush Attacks Obama in Israel; Joe Biden Responds-"This is bullshit"

Nquest — Fri, 16 May 2008 10:47:00 -0000

S,

The US has nothing to lose by negotiating with Iran.

And who gives a sh*t about "stated goals" that you state someone else has. The US "stated goal" was to bring democracy to Iraq and we knew that was bs from jump. The issue is not what someone says but one they do.

The US has a trashy record of fvcked up actions no matter what the "stated goals" were. Say it with me: INNOCENT IRAQIS KILLED!!!!

The stated goals of Iran are to: Drive us out of the region

After seeing INNOCENT IRAQIS KILLED... exactly what is wrong with that goal? Answer: Not a damn thing when you accord them the same humanity your accord yourself.

If the USSR bombed the sh*t out of Mexico right on the US border in the 80's... I REST MY CASE! If we didn't have the bomb in the 80's and the USSR did and bombed the sh*t out of a neighboring country... I REST MY CASE!!

That's the reality. Israel is not destroyed and Israel can defend herself.

You are engaging in fearmongering with someone your type of bs will never resonate with.

Who the hell is Israel to me? Have you ever asked yourself that question? Do you think the kind of history of duplicity (say one thing but do another) in the US would ever

Do you think I'm fazed by some idea that Iran wants to drive us out the region AS IF WE HAVE SOME UNQUESTIONED RIGHT to be in the region on their border threatening them with the same kind of lies that put us in the region, in Iraq?

I don't share your fvcked up concepts about Israel or the US and these presumed "right to exist" (read: to do whatever the hell we/they want).

China and Russia are reliable obstacles to our interests

To hell with "our" interests. They aren't mine. But go ahead and take some time and define "our" interests...

"Sen. Obama could..."

You COULD do better than spout such speculative-assumptive bs. Nothing has been said about how "quickly" Obama would move to hold direct talks with Ahmadinejad. Nothing says Ahmadinejad stature will be enhanced save for in mind of people who make such idiotic, automatic assumptions.

History defies your lies. There is no evidence in all the Israel-Palestinian peace talks that meeting with Arafat, e.g., enhanced his stature. Arafat was demonized regardless.

So stop spouting foolishness. And, with the peace talks as a model, COMMON SENSE says that the reputation of those engaged in talks are colored by how they perform/respond IN THE TALKS.

What are you afraid of? Ahmadinejad not fitting the boogey man stereotype?

Sorry, I don't do inexplicable, unfounded FEAR.

We have nothing to lose and there is nothing you can say to me about negotiations when what happened with N. Korea???

What happened with the USSR? The had stockpiles of nukes. And their "state goals" were what, S?

You might as well come out with it and stop beating around the bush.

Re: Bush Attacks Obama in Israel; Joe Biden Responds-"This is bullshit"

SquarePeg — Fri, 16 May 2008 10:42:00 -0000

George Bush is the gift that keeps on giving to the Democratic Party!

Somebody should give old Georgie a mirror, because evidently he can't remember his own families history or he is such a sociopath that he thinks nobody will remember that it was his grandfather who made his fortune appeasing and supporting the Nazis and was involved in a plot to overthrow the government of FDR.

Talk about Nazi sympathizer! This man is so stupid that he did not realize that by bringing this up he was opening up a can of worms that the Republican Party did not want many people to discuss.

Yes, your idiot leader just handed the Democrats an issue that the court jester George Bush cannot run from.

Oh by the way, when John McCain says Hamas likes Obama and that he should not talk to our enemies, he forgot he said that we should two years ago, and most currently if he and Bush believes that anybody talking to our enemies are appeasers, shouldn't he fire his own secretaries of state and defense, since the sec of defense stated YESTERDAY that we should be talking to Iran, and isn't that what General Patreus did white the Sunnis to get them to stop ambushing our troops so Bush could claim that his surge was working.

This man doesn't even know what his own foreign policy is, yet has the nerve to call someone else a Nazi sympathizer forgetting about his family, forgetting his own cabinet members, and forgetting that he was supposed to representing the US of America not the Republican Party!

Thanks to all the imbeciles who voted for this piece of shit!

Re: Bush Attacks Obama in Israel; Joe Biden Responds-"This is bullshit"

acanthus — Fri, 16 May 2008 10:21:00 -0000

nquest @8:49, she gives herself away with the use of white racist buzzwords like "victimology".

Re: Bush Attacks Obama in Israel; Joe Biden Responds-"This is bullshit"

D. — Fri, 16 May 2008 09:00:00 -0000

My position (was off dealing with vets behaving badly, and didn't get to weigh in):

1. Not the best situation for Pres. Bush to make that comment.

2. It does raise a legitimate question on Obama's foreign policy/credentials.

Re: Bush Attacks Obama in Israel; Joe Biden Responds-"This is bullshit"

Fri, 16 May 2008 08:51:00 -0000

nquest,

Iran has nothing to gain by negotiating with the US.

The stated goals of Iran are to: Drive us out of the region, expand their power and influence by acquiring nuclear weapons and destroy Israel. This is not fearmongering...it is reality.

Europe, China and Russia cannot agree to 'tougher' sanctions.

The UN is feckless and corrupt as an arbiter of sanctions or enforcer of resolutions: Iran rearms Hezbollah in Lebanon via Syria in blatant defiance of a UN Resolution with no consequence and please recall the Oil-for-Food fiasco.

What leverage can Obama possibly provide?

He is promising to pull out of Iraq upon his election, will cede influence and deterrence via a strong military presence providing security for a fledgling democracy in Iraq to Iran.

This will no doubt be played as a defeat for the US and a testimony to our lack of political will.

China and Russia are reliable obstacles to our interests and it can be argued that they benefit from a stronger Iran.

U.S. foreign-policy doctrine has traditionally held that American presidents should be discerning in where and when to use the prestige of their office.

During U.S. engagements with the Soviet Union and China, summits by presidents Reagan and Nixon were withheld to the end of the diplomatic process rather than occurring at the start. U.S. leaders have been averse to photo opportunities with the likes of Cuba's Fidel Castro, fearing it could provide them a propaganda tool.

Sen. Obama could strengthen Ahmadinejad if as U.S. president he moves too quickly to hold direct talks with Tehran's leader. Ahmadinejad is facing presidential elections in 2009 and could use a summit with Sen. Obama as proof of his enhanced stature. Ahmadinejad also could seek to sell to his people that talks with Washington were a direct result of his hard-line stance.

Re: Bush Attacks Obama in Israel; Joe Biden Responds-"This is bullshit"

Ronnie B — Fri, 16 May 2008 08:21:00 -0000

Was Bush drunk again?

Re: Bush Attacks Obama in Israel; Joe Biden Responds-"This is bullshit"

Symphony — Fri, 16 May 2008 07:33:00 -0000

Biden was great on CNN American Morning this morning. He was good. I don't know if you can find a clip.

Re: Bush Attacks Obama in Israel; Joe Biden Responds-"This is bullshit"

Nquest — Fri, 16 May 2008 02:32:00 -0000

No, it's pretty true to form, Craig.

Re: Bush Attacks Obama in Israel; Joe Biden Responds-"This is bullshit"

Craig Hickman — Fri, 16 May 2008 01:38:00 -0000

nquest, you are in rare form.

Re: Bush Attacks Obama in Israel; Joe Biden Responds-"This is bullshit"

justice58 — Fri, 16 May 2008 01:15:00 -0000

MS.Martin,

"Hell, he was barely able to articulate that speech that somebody wrote for him.

-----------------------------------

LOL-- You know you're right! He can't even pronounce articulate, less than spell it!

BWA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Re: Bush Attacks Obama in Israel; Joe Biden Responds-"This is bullshit"

Nquest — Fri, 16 May 2008 01:12:00 -0000

Yeah, I guess Bill (and Hillary) have shown just how experienced they are as politicians since they've not only responded in the most rational ways (never unflattering, rash or otherwise) during this campaign but have ran away... and beaten the young upstart Obama in a landslide.

But, hey... stupid Anon's says stupid things.

Re: Bush Attacks Obama in Israel; Joe Biden Responds-"This is bullshit"

justice58 — Fri, 16 May 2008 01:10:00 -0000

To the stupid fuck at 9:53!

Have you been hiding under a rock for the past months, moron?

Have you not noticed that Barack is leading with most states won, most popular votes, most pledged delegates, Super Delegates because voters have been VOTING for him! Now who's the f-ing buffoon? You stupid ignorant moron!

Re: Bush Attacks Obama in Israel; Joe Biden Responds-"This is bullshit"

Nquest — Fri, 16 May 2008 01:06:00 -0000

You refuse to see any legitimate skepticism or concern regarding Obama.

You refuse to talk like you got some sense. I've criticized Obama up and and down my damn self so you sound foolish or desperate.

Ahmadjinedad and the Mullahs are determined to kill Americans, drive us from the region and destroy Israel. And you are OK with that.

The state of Israel has dispossessed Palestinians, etc., etc. and you are okay with that. Israel has no special place in my heart and the latest piece of fearmongering doesn't either.

Pulling out of Iraq regardless of the consequences is unwise

STHU!! I didn't say anything about pulling out of Iraq. We've killed untold thosands of INNOCENT IRAQIS and you, apparently, are okay with that.

There can be no negotiating with self proclaimed enemies who will accept no less than our submission to their will.

Quit projecting. That's all that bs is. In fact, that was the very rationale for starting the Iraq war. Iraq wouldn't submit to our will and post-911 bloodlust so we went on a killing spree, killing INNOCENT IRAQIS and you're okay with it and have the nerve to try to pull that same kind of bs regarding Iran.

Same kind overreaching fearmongering. Seriously? Do you even listen to this ridiculous bs before you say it?

Most Americans... favor support for Israel.

Most "Americans" were okay with slavery. Most "Americans" were okay with the racial inequality that existed (and persist). So what they think doesn't amount to jack-scratch to me.

his willingness to pander to his far-left

That dog won't hunt either. "far-left", "blame America first"... Nope!! No rhetorical magic or resonance there for me.

You must be confused. You must have forgotten that you're on Jack and Jill Politics. The political consensus here, indeed the very language of politics, is not in line with your notions.

Now quit bothering me with all these fallacies and hilarious (and idiotic) talking points.

Obama's foreign policy approach demonstrates a level of naivete

And Bush's foreign policy approach demonstrate what? A level of wisdom and maturity? John McCain openly admits he don't know much about economics, openly panders to Blacks at MLK's 40th and in NOLA, can't seem to support the troops when they get back to the US (just like Bush) and you dare open your mouth about Obama?

Get the hell up out of here with that bs!

Re: Bush Attacks Obama in Israel; Joe Biden Responds-"This is bullshit"

Ms.Martin — Fri, 16 May 2008 01:01:00 -0000

Anon

You stupid mofos wish.

Dubya couldn't do anything clever if someone wrote him an instruction manual. Hell, he was barely able to articulate that speech that somebody wrote for him.