Jack and Jill Politics - Latest Comments in CNN Does Disservice To Black Bloggers And JJP Specifically (Updated!)

Re: CNN Does Disservice To Black Bloggers And JJP Specifically (Updated!)

Anonymous — Sat, 05 Apr 2008 21:42:00 -0000

What's that you say?

CNN does a disservice to black bloggers, JJP specifically!

I'm shocked!

This is CNN.

Remember when CNN used to be the most trusted name in news?

Now who trusts CNN?

Re: CNN Does Disservice To Black Bloggers And JJP Specifically (Updated!)

Anon — Sat, 05 Apr 2008 15:35:00 -0000

I don't use handles all the time because in my opinion all comments (and some blogs) are anonymous. What's the difference in signing a post Suzy Q, Talisha X, Yonka Simmons or Anon.y.mous?

Nothing because they are all on-line identities.

No one in their right mind would use their real names or their real email address because they wouldn't want to receive hate mail from Obama supporters calling them handkerchief heads.

This has happened to me.

From now on, if I can post anonymously I will.

Re: CNN Does Disservice To Black Bloggers And JJP Specifically (Updated!)

TruthSeeker — Sat, 05 Apr 2008 12:00:00 -0000

nita,

He/She has not taken a name because the deliberate act of not taking a name is the cyberspace equivalent to klansmen wearing hoods. It's similar to a criminal wearing a mask..they are up to dastardly deeds an don't want to be known. It's also a psychological tactic intended to disorient and instill fear.

Re: CNN Does Disservice To Black Bloggers And JJP Specifically (Updated!)

Nita — Sat, 05 Apr 2008 09:08:00 -0000

Anonymous at 4:29pm said... What difference would posting a screen name make?

Enough of a difference that -- in weighing options -- you make a conscious decision not to use one. Your statement makes it clear you're not like some posters here who weren't aware they could choose an identity.

I'm with Christian. Own your opinions. Brand them with a handle of your choosing. But since you have chosen not to, may I ask why you have not?

Re: CNN Does Disservice To Black Bloggers And JJP Specifically (Updated!)

Nita — Sat, 05 Apr 2008 09:03:00 -0000

ColorOfChange was contacted by CNN on Thursday evening and we got back to them on Friday morning. By that time, it was too late.

What is the moral to be found in this story?

Re: CNN Does Disservice To Black Bloggers And JJP Specifically (Updated!)

Michael Davis-Dallas Progress — Sat, 05 Apr 2008 01:55:00 -0000

Boiling it down to "voting for Barack because he's black" makes for a convenient soundbite and list of talking points, but it also keeps certain blacks in power.

As long as they are allowed to cry racism, the black establishment is allowed to flourish and suck the life out of our community. These people would love it if we never had a barack, a cory booker, or anyone else. It highlights their own shortcomings as politicians, and would awaken their constituents in such a way that they could be voted straight out of office.

Re: CNN Does Disservice To Black Bloggers And JJP Specifically (Updated!)

Anonymous — Sat, 05 Apr 2008 01:07:00 -0000

I never said Clinton was innocent.

Re: CNN Does Disservice To Black Bloggers And JJP Specifically (Updated!)

Admiral Komack — Fri, 04 Apr 2008 23:37:00 -0000

"This is the real tension at the heart of fight for the superdelegates. And if Obama wins the nomination, I am sure all his supporters here at JJP will eagerly continue to use race as the main issue against McCain."

"Be careful not to "cry wolf" one too many times."

-Gee, Anonymous, would you say Hillary is as pure as the driven snow?

Hillary started the racial dog-whistling.

And speaking of "wolf", stop trying to sell wolf tickets here.

Nobody's buying.

Re: CNN Does Disservice To Black Bloggers And JJP Specifically (Updated!)

DWS — Fri, 04 Apr 2008 19:58:00 -0000

Sadly in this age of the sound byte, meaningful journalism becomes lost as MSM sensationalizes the trivial and misrepresents complex issues, assuming the audience is too ignorant to notice.

I really appreciate JJP because I have a chance to read about issues I care about and share my thoughts with others who understand where I am coming from.

This too shall pass. This is a new era and people are no longer falling for the oki-doke. Sure it may take work to set the record straight, but the fact that CNN knows we are here also tells me we can't be ignored.

Re: CNN Does Disservice To Black Bloggers And JJP Specifically (Updated!)

Anonymous — Fri, 04 Apr 2008 19:29:00 -0000

What difference would posting a screen name make?

Re: CNN Does Disservice To Black Bloggers And JJP Specifically (Updated!)

Plantsmantx — Fri, 04 Apr 2008 18:27:00 -0000

It's alright, y'all. It's alright.

"No, the more serious issue that we've repeatedly been all over here at JJP is that black superdelegates who continue to support Clinton also support her nasty, divisive, race-baiting campaign tactics".

It's not just the fact that they still support her, and it's not just a matter of them being complicit through their silence about her tactics. When Clinton says words to the effect that it's not and shouldn't be about race, while at the same time having surrogates like Tubbs-Jones going on TV and proclaiming that Obama "can't run away from the issue of race", you know that they are fully-complicit, willing participants in this disgusting racist strategy, and are every bit as guilty as Clinton herself.

Listen, what these CBC members are doing is a far cry from the usual "black conservatives making a living by telling whites what they want to hear" kind of thing. These people have to answer to their black constituients, and their continued employment as federal legislators depends on those BLACK constituients.

It's alright, y'all...this is an OPPORTUNITY:).

Re: CNN Does Disservice To Black Bloggers And JJP Specifically (Updated!)

Anonymous — Fri, 04 Apr 2008 17:54:00 -0000

TCPL,

Do you believe that 'most people are racist?'

Other readers, do you hold this view?

Will the viewpoint that 'most people are racist' have an impact on Obama's nomination? Has it already? How will this viewpoint help Obama become President of the United States of America?

The issue of race has clearly divided Democrats. When Clinton loses the nomination, how will the viewpoint expressed on JJP, that 'Clinton supporters are racist' unite the party?

In the general election, when Obama's judgment is called into question through his association with Rev. Wright, will McCain supporters be assumed to be racist as well? Will other criticisms of Obama's positions or ideology be viewed as racist as well? Will this assumption help or harm Obama's chance to become President?

I contend that if 'most people are racist' is the dominant viewpoint of Obama supporters, he will not be elected President.

Re: CNN Does Disservice To Black Bloggers And JJP Specifically (Updated!)

The Christian Progressive Libe — Fri, 04 Apr 2008 15:48:00 -0000

Anon, if you're so convinced that you're right, why don't you post with a screen name? Why do you continue to hide?

Additionally, you have done nothing but regurgitate your earlier posts and innuendo. We asked you several times to provides facts that this blog engages in race-baiting tactics. Even after Mervyn from Color of Change posted a clarification to the position of the organization, and which is consistent with the politics advocated here, you continue to insist that JJP is engaging in race-baiting.

Race-baiting, which has been pointed out to you at least three times on this thread, WAS STARTED BY THE CLINTONS.

You have the right to stand by your previous posts, but we also reserve the right to call BS, especially when the evidence has been presented to you.

If a judge ignored evidence to render a verdict contrary to proof, he'd be disbarred and thrown off the bench. Fortunately for you, all we can do is ignore your unfounded and illogical blasts into the blogsphere.

Re: CNN Does Disservice To Black Bloggers And JJP Specifically (Updated!)

Anonymous — Fri, 04 Apr 2008 14:43:00 -0000

JJP also engages in a pattern that facilitates racial discrimination.

Race baiting is the term for an act of using racially derisive language, actions or other forms of communication, to anger, intimidate or incite a person or groups of people, or to make those persons behave in ways that are inimical to their personal or group interests. This can also be accomplished by implying that there is an underlying race based motive in the actions of others towards the group baited, where none in fact exists.

Calling Obama a 'kid' and that his consistent opposition to the war is a 'fairytale' contains absolutely no racially divisive language. It may be disputible and innacurate information but it is not racial.

Many people who practice race baiting often believe in racism, or have an interest in making the group believe that racism is what motivates the actions of others.

Again, my assertion here is that 'most people here at JJP believe that most people are racist.'

I also maintain that this assertion, if widely held by Obama supporters, will harm his candidacy.

That is my argument. You have done nothing to address it. BTW I am an Obama supporter.

Re: CNN Does Disservice To Black Bloggers And JJP Specifically (Updated!)

mervyn — Fri, 04 Apr 2008 14:40:00 -0000

This is a great post.

ColorOfChange was contacted by CNN on Thursday evening and we got back to them on Friday morning. By that time, it was too late. We then sent them a statement that they asked for.

Unfortunately, they did not read that statement, and viewers were left to think that ColorOfChange members were asking superdelegates to vote for Obama because he is Black.

I think you're hitting the point spot on: instead of allowing for a more complete version of events, Black superdelegates were allowed to frame the issue entirely, without any opposing viewpoint besides the cursory narration of the story. What makes this more problematic, is that CBC members continue to push a narrative that equates advocacy with threats and arm-twisting. It's irresponsible and disrespectful to the people who go out of their way to send CBC members their informed concerns about how they are acting as superdelegates.

Finally, here's our statement in full:

ColorOfChange.org uses the internet to empower our members to make government more responsive to the concerns of Black Americans and to bring about positive political and social change for everyone.

Our petition to pressure superdelegates is not about who wins the nomination; it's about who gets to decide - we think the people's voice should be decisive. Because we saw the possibility of Black elected officials using their votes as superdelegates to undermine the will of voters, we called on them to make clear they would not choose that course. The Congressional Black Caucus has long defended voting rights in Congress and our members insist that they maintain that commitment.

Along with 26,559 petition signatures, we have received thousands of comments from our members - they are critical, but fair and focused on a powerful message: 'do not undermine the choice of the voters who put you in office'.

Re: CNN Does Disservice To Black Bloggers And JJP Specifically (Updated!)

Ms.Martin — Fri, 04 Apr 2008 14:35:00 -0000

Anon:

"Crying 'RACE!' indiscriminately, diminshes the true, serious incidents of racism. Crying "RACE!" to avoid criticism and stifle debate are counterproductive."

Introducing race in the manner in which the Clintons and MSM have and even you in your pathetic attempt to counsel us here at JJP also stifles debate and is counterproductive.

But I'm sure you know that!

Re: CNN Does Disservice To Black Bloggers And JJP Specifically (Updated!)

Nita — Fri, 04 Apr 2008 14:33:00 -0000

Anonymous needs to choose a name.

Re: CNN Does Disservice To Black Bloggers And JJP Specifically (Updated!)

The Christian Progressive Libe — Fri, 04 Apr 2008 14:16:00 -0000

Here ya go, Anon;

That Clinton Attacks Obama wikipedia blog was started because the Clintons put out a pattern that facilitates racial discrimination.

No one wanted to be crying "racism" without having evidence. There was a pattern of race-baiting being introduced and facilitated by the Clintons themselves; a pattern so blatant even white progressives like Keith Olbermann and even a wingbot like Chris Wallace over on Fox News, called out their own peers over it.

So, where does JJP engage in race-baiting politics when the Clintons themselves introduced the concept in the campaign and we decided to keep track of the so-called "coincidences", "Misspeaks" and "out of context" statements that were happening too frequently to be considered "coincidental".

That many "coincidences" leads to a pattern which usually adds up to either bigotry or discrimination.

My career is in EEO/Civil Rights/Diversity/Affirmative Action, sir/madam. The U. S. Government sent me to school and trained me how to identify and prove episodes of race, gender discrimination and bigotry by first learning how to identify a pattern of behavior.

Everything you cited as an example of what you believe JJP engaging in race politics merely reinforced the suspicion that the Clintons were trying to play on the fears and bigotry of America by trying to recreate Obama as the Scary Black Man in order to win this election and the nomination because they believe they're entitled to it.

You call it race baiting; we call it a pattern of bigotry and discrimination.

BTW, if you're a Hillary supporter, or worse, a McCain supporter, I wish you'd come forth and say so and stop arguing with us here. I continue to blow holes in your argument because I take your own words and demonstrate the pattern of bigotry the Clintons started and now are crying foul because the kitchen they cooked this crap up in got too hot.

Re: CNN Does Disservice To Black Bloggers And JJP Specifically (Updated!)

Anonymous — Fri, 04 Apr 2008 14:04:00 -0000

The first incident on the clintonattacksobama wiki page is Bill Clinton calling Obama 'kid.' And stating that Obama's consistent opposition to the war was a 'fairytale.' Seeing this comment in a racial context illustrates the willingness of JJP to jump at any opportunity to cry "RACE!"

You may object to the comments based on the belief that Obama in NOT an inexperienced 'kid' and that his consistent opposition to the war is NOT a fairytale. These points can be argued without using race AT ALL. But that's not what happened here at JJP is it?

There are more posts and comments on this blog devoted to real and perceived incidents of race-baiting and racism against Obama than any other topic. Even more than on the candidate himself.

The post I was responding to is outraged because the media is refusing to acknowledge in their report that black superdelegates are being pressured to move from Clinton because of the 'nasty, divisive, race-baiting campaign tactics' of her campaign.

JJP maintains that blacks who support Clinton are 'are complicit in defining a roadmap that will be used to undermine future black candidates.'

This argument is based purely on race. No discussion of the issues, judgment, leadership. No persuasive argument to switch to Obama for any reason other than race.

No one here will even acknowledge that Wright's comments and Obama's association with him are legitimate areas of concern as it relates to Obama's judgment and beliefs. Most here agree with and defend Wright.

I stand by my assertion that JJP and commenters operate from the viewpoint that 'most people are racist.'

This viewpoint will ultimately doom Obama. Soon JJP will start a mccainandtheracistrethugsattackobama wiki.

Crying 'RACE!' indiscriminately, diminshes the true, serious incidents of racism. Crying "RACE!" to avoid criticism and stifle debate are counterproductive.

It has become all to tempting to see race. All too easy to assume that most people are racist.

This is going to be a long campaign. Many important differences exist between McCain and Obama. Voters deserve to see a constructive,substantive campaign based on the issues, leadership and judgment. I don't want the campaign to be all about race.

Re: CNN Does Disservice To Black Bloggers And JJP Specifically (Updated!)

Anonymous — Fri, 04 Apr 2008 13:24:00 -0000

ms martin,

Cry wolf my behind!

LOL!

Re: CNN Does Disservice To Black Bloggers And JJP Specifically (Updated!)

Anonymous — Fri, 04 Apr 2008 12:56:00 -0000

Christian,

I disagree with one thing! Anon 8:28 doesn't do him/herself a disserve b/c more than likely he/she knows the truth. The disservice is the idiots who will listen to the filth this character is spreading without verifying for themselves!!!

Re: CNN Does Disservice To Black Bloggers And JJP Specifically (Updated!)

Ms.Martin — Fri, 04 Apr 2008 12:54:00 -0000

Anon:

Cry wolf my behind! There are many who won't be silenced for fear of being deemed angry or sensitive to race-based treatment.

Dr. King did what he had to do for his time. I'm sure there were times when he wanted to scream out loud about the injustice and hatred that was shown to black americans. Don't be foolish enough to think he was never angry at America. He simply played the game to get done what needed to be done.

Some defend Wright because because he deserves the right to speak about the injustices. He and his church know the injustices because they are in the community helping people who suffer from them.

You don't have to feel guilty about what America has done to blacks and continues to do systemically, but you won't make me feel guilty about speaking out against it.

You like CNN have attempted to lump black voters into one group with one thinking pattern. WRONG!

Ruth said it best:

"It is unfortunate that as Blacks become more engaged about the election process -they are mocked and treated as simpletons."

It didn't work then and it won't work now.

Re: CNN Does Disservice To Black Bloggers And JJP Specifically (Updated!)

The Christian Progressive Libe — Fri, 04 Apr 2008 12:29:00 -0000

Anon 8:28

You don't visit here much, do you? Because if you did, you would know and understand that we at JJP do not engage or support Black politicos because they are Black. In fact, we have most of the CBC in our sights as targets for replacement, either with another Black candidate or a progressive one of any race that's going to best represent the interests of the people that elected them to office.

No more and no less. The only one superdelegate I can see that's trying to pressure the rest of the Caucus to get in line behind Obama is Jesse Jackson, Jr.

I disagree with the motive to vote for Obama because of his ethnicity; in fact, I am on RECORD against Obama because I believe, and I still believe, that his platform is full of platitudes and no substance. Having said that, the only reason I was defending him and giving him strong consideration is because HILLARY CLINTON MADE THIS CAMPAIGN ONE ABOUT RACE WHEN SHE PLAYED THE CARD IN SOUTH CAROLINA.

Period. THE END.

Voting for Obama because he's Black has never been the reason JJP got behind him - in fact, in most of the Black Blogsphere, Obama was viewed with suspicion because Whites were readily embracing him and we wanted to know what he promised them to get that kind of support because whites voting for Obama does not go anywhere towards evisceration of centuries of white guilt they might feel, if they feel any at all.

A candidate's race or gender SHOULD NEVER BE THE SOLE REASON TO GIVE THEM YOUR VOTE. Get that straight, if Hillary was talking the deal we wanted to hear, we'd be supporting her against Obama. It's not like it hasn't happened.

How many times has Al Sharpton ran for POTUS and Blacks got on board en masse to vote for him?

::crickets chirping::

I rest my case. 20 years ago we took Jesse seriously, and we didn't take Al as seriously because he already was getting beat up over the Tawana Brawley affair and crapped all over his credibility. More so when it became known that in recent campaigns, he was taking cheddar from Republican operatives who wanted him to throw monkey wrenches in the campaigns of Howard Dean, first, and then John Edwards and John Kerry.

You do yourself a disservice when you say JJP engages in race-baiting politics because we don't.

Re: CNN Does Disservice To Black Bloggers And JJP Specifically (Updated!)

Anonymous — Fri, 04 Apr 2008 11:50:00 -0000

JJP is USING race??????? Are you delusional? So there is NO race baiting from the Clinton camp, only JJP "crying wolf"?????? LOL!

Re: CNN Does Disservice To Black Bloggers And JJP Specifically (Updated!)

Anonymous — Fri, 04 Apr 2008 11:28:00 -0000

In order to accurately address the pressure being put on black superdelegates to support Obama, reports would have to acknowledge as you stated,'...the more serious issue that we've repeatedly been all over here at JJP is that black superdelegates who continue to support Clinton also support her nasty, divisive, race-baiting campaign tactics. By continuing to stand by her despite these repeated offenses against Obama, against the very black churches that keep many of these people in office, they are complicit in defining a roadmap that will be used to undermine future black candidates.'

The problem here is that while this is the opinion of many, it is NOT A FACT. The pressure being put on black superdelegates is based on race, and not issues.

If black, or white, superdelegates agree with you, they can feel justified in supporting Obama. But if they do not see it your way, they should be able to vote for Clinton.

Black Obama supporters here at JJP are making his candidacy ALL ABOUT RACE.

The wiki page, the support of Rev. Wright are the most obvious examples.

The way this is playing out, soon a vote against Obama will be labeled a vote for racism.

Frankly, if that happens, Obama is doomed. He may get the nomination but if this continues against McCain and the Republicans he will lose.

Voters have a right to question the judgment of his association of Wright. Voters are justified in rejecting him based on that association.

Juan Williams writes today in the Wall Stree Journal, "Obama's major speech on race last month was forced from him only after a political crisis erupted: It became widely known that he'd sat for 20 years in the pews of a church where Rev. Jeremiah Wright lashed out at white people. The minister cursed America as worthy of damnation, made lewd suggestions about the nature of President Clinton's relationship with black voters, and embraced the paranoid idea that the white government was spreading AIDS among black people.

Here is where the racial tension at the heart of Mr. Obama's campaign flared into view. He either shared these beliefs or, lacking good judgment, decided it politically expedient for an ambitious young black politician trying to prove his solidarity with all things black, to be associated with these rants. His judgment and leadership on the critical issue of race is in question.

While speaking to black people, King never condescended to offer Rev. Wright-style diatribes or conspiracy theories. He did not paint black people as victims. To the contrary, he spoke about black people as American patriots who believed in the democratic ideals of the country, in nonviolence and the Judeo-Christian ethic, even as they overcame slavery, discrimination and disadvantage. King challenged white America to do the same, to live up to their ideals and create racial unity. He challenged white Christians, asking them how they could treat their fellow black Christians as anything but brothers in Christ."

I personally choose to believe that most people are not racist.

I get the feeling that here at JJP, many believe that most people are racist.

This is the real tension at the heart of fight for the superdelegates. And if Obama wins the nomination, I am sure all his supporters here at JJP will eagerly continue to use race as the main issue against McCain.

Be careful not to "cry wolf" one too many times.