Jack and Jill Politics - Latest Comments in Colin Powell on Obama and Jeremiah Wright

Re: Colin Powell on Obama and Jeremiah Wright

SquarePeg — Fri, 11 Apr 2008 11:17:00 -0000

I am sure you already well aware of the FACTs and don't have to rely on statements from any of these posters with the information readily available through many search engines, department of defense records, etc...

Just as an example, go to Google, put in Powell's name along with Mai Lai, Panama or any other conflict he was chosen to investigate and see what comes up.

Don't take my word and you already know this, you won't like what you will find about this "great" man.

Re: Colin Powell on Obama and Jeremiah Wright

BlackLiterature — Fri, 11 Apr 2008 10:06:00 -0000

@ squarepeg

"With recent revelations of Powell's involvement in decision-making regarding the types of torture humans would be subjected to... statements of facts"

What are you referring to? Serious question. Most of us take statements of fact from fellow bloggers with a grain of salt.

Re: Colin Powell on Obama and Jeremiah Wright

D. — Fri, 11 Apr 2008 08:47:00 -0000

Peg,
As Secretary of State-not to mention with his military experience-of course Powell would be brought in on any discussion about interrogations, especially if they were taking place on foreign soil. It'd be common sense to include him.

I challenge you to find some documentation that Powell did not raise any objections to the methods of interrogation.

Re: Colin Powell on Obama and Jeremiah Wright

SquarePeg — Fri, 11 Apr 2008 08:19:00 -0000

With recent revelations of Powell's involvement in decision-making regarding the types of torture humans would be subjected to, in addition to statements of facts from posters on this blog, contradicts many who are desperately trying to reconcile Powell's image by stating that his defense of the Weapons of Mass Destruction lie was a one-time event.

How many events will it take before it becomes apparent that Powell is just as reckless, slimey, and arrogant as his other co-workers in this dehumanizing enterprise?

How many more events will it take?

Every time he tries to salvage his reputation another horrid FACT surfaces.

Re: Colin Powell on Obama and Jeremiah Wright

BlackLiterature — Fri, 11 Apr 2008 07:44:00 -0000

"But, I'm loving this heated debate. Black Republicans never make it boring around here..LOL"

For the record, I'm a Democrat, not a Republican. Not sure about the parties the other posters align. :-)

Re: Colin Powell on Obama and Jeremiah Wright

BlackLiterature — Fri, 11 Apr 2008 07:34:00 -0000

I'm more than surprised at the tone of the discussion here.

Hmm... Judge the man entirely on the basis of one event. A lot of us have been judging folks harshly that have done that to Wright. Are we so much more willing to do so to Powell because he worked under the Bush adminstrations?

I am still not convinced that he went on a campaign to Lie to the public and UN about Iraq.

Re: Colin Powell on Obama and Jeremiah Wright

SquarePeg — Thu, 10 Apr 2008 19:05:00 -0000

Did he?

Must of miss that one.

For all his so-called experience, didn't work too well did it?

For the third time, you are once again putting words not just in my mouth, but now you are presuming to know what Obama thinks. Are you a clarivoyant, ESP, if not then you should know stupid is as stupid does. Didn't your mama teach you that one.

Seriously, there are countless people with as much or more foreign policy experience who are more than qualified and capable to serve in Obama's cabinet that would give him sound advice, and who would be more concerned about the country them concerned with his own inflated ego and dreams of greatness.

Oops.

Re: Colin Powell on Obama and Jeremiah Wright

Ms.Martin — Thu, 10 Apr 2008 19:00:00 -0000

Square:

I am not in opposition to your feelings regarding Powell. I'm just not as emotional about the situation.

Regardless to the way some may feel about him and his involvement in the Iraq invasion, he is formittable and sought after for his experience.

I wouldn't be surprised if he is given a cabinet position in an Obama whitehouse.

Re: Colin Powell on Obama and Jeremiah Wright

Ms.Martin — Thu, 10 Apr 2008 18:56:00 -0000

Square:

Colin Powell stated during an interview that Obama calls him to consult.

Re: Colin Powell on Obama and Jeremiah Wright

D. — Thu, 10 Apr 2008 18:51:00 -0000

Peg,
Let's compare the two:

Obama-first term senator, seat on the Foreign Relations committee.

Powell-Former national security advisor, JCS chairman, and secretary of state. Probably more experience with foreign policy as national security advisor to Reagan than Obama has at this point in his career.

If Obama thinks that Powell isn't knowledgeable in foreign matters, then he's stupid. And if you can't give Powell credit for his experience-whether you like him or not-then you're equally stupid.

Re: Colin Powell on Obama and Jeremiah Wright

SquarePeg — Thu, 10 Apr 2008 18:34:00 -0000

Ms. Martin,

For my edification, please provide some tangible examples of this foreign policy assistance from Powell to Obama, please.

Also,

Thank you nmp for telling it like it is, I knew it was in you all the time, you superior man of the world. Excuse me while I swoon.

Re: Colin Powell on Obama and Jeremiah Wright

NMP — Thu, 10 Apr 2008 18:18:00 -0000

"Isn't that how we got in this mess in the first place, because white men who seem to think that the world revolves around their every wont..."

Think? Do you think the last 5 centuries have been an interminable staged reality-show? The world has revolved around their every want! Ain't no thinking about it.

Yes, history will eventually repeat itself; this empire will fall (China will see to that), but for now, they are still in command of the chess board we call the world, and Obama has to figure out a way to beat them at their game. If Colin Powell is willing to lend his hand (blood stained as it may be) to him, then he should take it!

Hell, for all we know, this could be his attempt at redemption.

Re: Colin Powell on Obama and Jeremiah Wright

Ms.Martin — Thu, 10 Apr 2008 18:05:00 -0000

SquarePeg-

Obama apparently believes Powell has capital as he consults with him regarding foreign policy matters.

Re: Colin Powell on Obama and Jeremiah Wright

SquarePeg — Thu, 10 Apr 2008 17:50:00 -0000

nmp,

Exactly what "capital" does Colin Powell possess other than in the minds of militaristic, gung-hung war chickenhawks?

I would dare say that the majority of posters to this blog in addition to informed African-Americans would differ with your assessment. So I am glad that you cleared that up when you indicated that white men would follow him.

Isn't that how we got in this mess in the first place, because white men who seem to think that the world revolves around their every wont, that every place in this world should try to emulate them in all their superiority, and when shunned and actually told that everyone does not want to be like them, respond in the only way they can in their war-like, chest-beating, desire to make everyone capitulate to their power.

Yes, unfortunately, you probably are correct as we have seen this borne out in the policies that continue to sink this country into a downward spiral. Have any of these chauvinistic white males ever read history and what happened to Rome due to hubris, arrogance and the belief that the bully will win every time?

I thought not or more accurately, as is probably more relevant they don't care, after all, we're America and we can whup anybody!

Re: Colin Powell on Obama and Jeremiah Wright

Ms.Martin — Thu, 10 Apr 2008 17:43:00 -0000

I also believe that Powell is trying to get on the right side of this thing.

I don't believe that his open support of Obama is just about him being proud of a capable African American candidate.

D-

I have a feeling this association is about more than the white male vote.

Obama was adamant about the war and the future implications of it. Hopefully, he and Powell are working together to advert another military blunder.

Re: Colin Powell on Obama and Jeremiah Wright

Craig Hickman — Thu, 10 Apr 2008 17:14:00 -0000

I still don't see what McCain's foreign policy expertise boils down to.

Yeah he's a certified war hero. But I'm pretty convinced he's damaged by what he had to endure.

Whatever his mental/emotional/spiritual state, Teflon John doesn't seem to know much about anything, but he's not being taken to task for his ignorance.

For now, anyway.

Re: Colin Powell on Obama and Jeremiah Wright

NMP — Thu, 10 Apr 2008 17:00:00 -0000

"The only edge that Senator McCain has over Obama (besides race) is foreign policy. If Colin Powell gives Obama his blessings, it political terms it will be akin to Moses passing his staff to Joshua because Independents and Moderate Republicans will damn sure follow.
==================================

This statement is so wrong on so many levels, if it was so sad, it might possibly be laughable.

Truly pathetic that this person actually believes what he just wrote."

Squarepeg, it might be laughable if it was NOT true. I wrote it, and I stand by it. As I said, my personal opinion of Colin Powell is irrelevant. What is at issue is his political capital and there is not one human being walking this Earth at this point who has more political capital than Colin Powell. That's no opinion or blief, but FACT. There is not one opinion poll that disputes it. Consistently, Colin Powell is ranked as the single endorsement that could move a decisive percentage of the electorate.

Fine, take issue with my comparison of Moses and Joshua, but to deny that Colin Powell would not move voters, particularly white men, in mass to Obama is most certainly laughable.

Re: Colin Powell on Obama and Jeremiah Wright

RedLipstick — Thu, 10 Apr 2008 16:58:00 -0000

Dick Armitage PBS/Frontline Transcripts from Bush's War:

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pag...

"So you weigh it. Had he left, do you think that would have stopped the war? No. I don't think anyone thinks that. The Congress had voted in October, long before the secretary gave his U.N. speech. The Congress voted not too long before the president gave his State of the Union speech. ... I don't think a resignation of one or two members of the administration would have necessarily changed that tide. ..."

Douglas Feith has been making the rounds lately b/c of his new book and he made the point on NPR about the level of in fighting in this administration and the contempt some members had for others.

I think this along with the quote from Dick illustrates what may have gone through Powell's head--he knew if he resigned the war would still happen so maybe he thought it better to stay to mitigate some of the damage and chaos that by his own experience he knew was coming.

Obviously we will never know one way or the other if his resignation would have made a difference, but it's fair to assume that the "wonder twins" Che/Rum would never have given up on invading Iraq.

Re: Colin Powell on Obama and Jeremiah Wright

ac — Thu, 10 Apr 2008 16:47:00 -0000

"I guess some segments of the liberal populace will keep throwing good men-and women-under the bus until Bush is jailed, Obama is elected, the military is withdrawn from Iraq with no concern for the future, and Iran becomes a nuclear state"

...cats and dogs living together in sin, it rains frogs, plagues of locust scour the Earth, Monkeys fly out of my ***, Western civilization falls and the apocalyspe draws nigh. LOL.

Geez D, co-sign Riykah, but drama much?

I jest - keep bringing the conservative viewpoint - it challenges us all to better hone our own viewpoints.

Re: Colin Powell on Obama and Jeremiah Wright

MacDaddy — Thu, 10 Apr 2008 16:34:00 -0000

"What's lost about GEN Powell-especially among those who have never worn the uniform-is that the nature of his business prevented him from criticism on Iraq once the final decision was made. Powell did caution President Bush against going into Iraq; however, once that course was set, it was his job to support it."

I agree with bro. Komack here. So does journalist Woodward. I read two of his books on Bush and the Bush administration; and the two things I gout of it about Powell, first, was that he was the consumate military person: loyal to a fought, refusing to play the politics and not speaking against the Bush administration, at least not in public.

But that's not say he was a wimp or a patsy. According to Woodward-- and I haven't read anything that disagrees with this-- only Powell who had the nerve to question and disagree with Donald Rumsfeld, Bush's Secretary of Defense, and close friend of Bush the dad. The two problems were that, first, Bush seemed too idiotic to understand the complexities of issues (especially problems associated with logistics on the ground or the different factions in Iraq). Second, Bush, competitive with his dad, wanting to outdo him, wanted to invade and occupy Iraq no matter what Powell said. Rumsfeld accommodated the arrogant Bush's wishes to outshine his dad. So, despite the fact that Powell knew what he was talking about, Bush almost always sided with Rumsfeld. This is why Powell had to go, when Bush was reelected. Powell didn't resign; he was made to feel so unwelcomed that he had to leave.

But Woodward's point, as I remember it, was not to defend Powell but to get us to better understand him within the context of a man who had been and, at the same time, make sure we understood that he wasn't a lackey or wimp but a complex character. in the military just about all of his life.

I think he never should have soiled his excellent reputation by getting involved with Bush in the first place. But then i've neve been in the military.

Re: Colin Powell on Obama and Jeremiah Wright

Anonymous — Thu, 10 Apr 2008 16:29:00 -0000

This will all be moot when Obama starts to move towards the recommendations of Patraeus and Crocker. In his questioning, you could see that though he tried to pin both men down, they were adamant that any draw down would be premature and have disastrous consequences.

To continue to sell his present plan (halt the escalation and implement a phased redeployment of American forces from Iraq) to the American people would be to ignore the advise of these two realistic, brave men.

Re: Colin Powell on Obama and Jeremiah Wright

no_slappz — Thu, 10 Apr 2008 16:28:00 -0000

John Shreffler said...

"I quit ROTC when I got the scope of what went on at My Lai and gave up plans for military career I'd had since I was 10."

If the certain unpleasant facts of war were shocking enough for you to abandon plans for a military career, how did you choose a different career? Tragedies, corruption and misdeeds have occurred in all human endeavors.

I hopoe you didn't decide to become a priest. Given the history of slavery in the US, would it have been possible for you to enter politics in any way?

Meanwhile, if you were deeply disturbed by My Lai, I would have expected you to have abandoned your military aspirations after learning about Dresden and of course, the all time favorites, Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

Re: Colin Powell on Obama and Jeremiah Wright

D. — Thu, 10 Apr 2008 16:15:00 -0000

I'm pretty sure he respects himself. One of the great things about being in the military is that you learn to accept and live with your decisions, regardless of what people (who generally have no clue of what making those decisions involves) think of them in hindsight.

I guess some segments of the liberal populace will keep throwing good men-and women-under the bus until Bush is jailed, Obama is elected, the military is withdrawn from Iraq with no concern for the future, and Iran becomes a nuclear state.

Re: Colin Powell on Obama and Jeremiah Wright

Lola Gets — Thu, 10 Apr 2008 16:11:00 -0000

Yes, I still hold a soft spot for Powell myself. It might could be due to race, but not completely, lol.

L

Re: Colin Powell on Obama and Jeremiah Wright

rikyrah — Thu, 10 Apr 2008 16:11:00 -0000

Well, I knew this would bring out a good discussion, and it did. Brother Dixon, I alway appreciate when you come and drop some cold knowledge on us.

I've read all the back and forth and enjoy the discussions, and I have to answer CPL above, yeah, it's because he's Black...ain't right, maybe. But, I understand the arguments against him. Maybe I think he's trying for some sort of redemption.

d,

I appreciate you bringing forth your consistent argument, because we need to hear opposing viewpoints on this, if only to remind us that there is another side.

But, I'm loving this heated debate. Black Republicans never make it boring around here..LOL