Jack and Jill Politics - Latest Comments in Combatting Ignorance: Report From Someone Actually At The Obama San Fran Event

Re: Combatting Ignorance: Report From Someone Actually At The Obama San Fran Event

Ms.Martin — Sun, 13 Apr 2008 20:13:00 -0000

BrownSugar_-

You're too funny. I must addmit that while I was angry that Rev. Wright was attacked and Obama was attacked by those ignorant folks trying to use Rev. Wright, I was glad too that Rev. Wright was heard by a lot of people who would be pissed off.

Re: Combatting Ignorance: Report From Someone Actually At The Obama San Fran Event

BrownSugaQT86 — Sun, 13 Apr 2008 14:34:00 -0000

Anons...just chill please...MY GoD

Average Americans...normal Americans...hmmm...May I ask who these 'average' and 'normal' Americans are?

I believe that John McCain is an elitist who did not give a DAMN about the mortage crisis until a few days ago. Please...please..

Obama was a community organizer helping poor and working class people.

Or mabye when you say "normal" and "average" you mean white voters. He is disconnected with white voters? I do not think so.

Rev.Wright pisses you guys off and I love it.

He has not tried to hide from ignorant white folk.

"If that were they case, they wouldn't have sold recordings of his sermons. Or televised them. Dumbass."

Haha Plantsmantx, thank you.

Re: Combatting Ignorance: Report From Someone Actually At The Obama San Fran Event

freespiritbeautee — Sun, 13 Apr 2008 12:40:00 -0000

Look at all the anon trolls!

Re: Combatting Ignorance: Report From Someone Actually At The Obama San Fran Event

heartsandflowers — Sun, 13 Apr 2008 03:58:00 -0000

Also people like to gloss over the fact that Trinity has quite a few white members who would have definitely heard Dr. Wright. It is white people that NEED to hear the message - all of it - not just a 30 sec soundbyte. Hear it. Own it. Accept it. Grow. Decide to be part of the problem or part of the solution.

Re: Combatting Ignorance: Report From Someone Actually At The Obama San Fran Event

Plantsmantx — Sun, 13 Apr 2008 00:51:00 -0000

"Just like Rev. Wright's words were never intended to be heard for white audiences, Obama's unfiltered remarks were never meant for 'average' Americans."

"OOPS. This is bad."

If that were they case, they wouldn't have sold recordings of his sermons. Or televised them. Dumbass.

Re: Combatting Ignorance: Report From Someone Actually At The Obama San Fran Event

Anonymous — Sat, 12 Apr 2008 21:58:00 -0000

felicia,

Great. So can someone tell me how these comments do not hurt Obama with rural voters and white men? Two groups he needs to win the GE? 28% of Hillary supporter will vote for McCain if Obama is the nominee. How does he stop that from happening?

I could use the talking points.

Re: Combatting Ignorance: Report From Someone Actually At The Obama San Fran Event

Anonymous — Sat, 12 Apr 2008 21:54:00 -0000

Anon 6:23,

You're right. The MSM will focus on the first part of his statement and his mea culpa. Hillary will push it hard, win in PA and use it in NC and IN. Obama was closing in on her and yet again she will survive to fight on and on and on...

One can only hope that Obama will not provide any more fodder for the general election. Right now the sound bites are piling up. Obama has made his stand, defended Wright and defended his belief that rural voters suffer from 'false consciousness.' His supporter agree, but he will need the very voters he may have alienated with his 'behind closed doors' truth-telling moment.

Debate tomorrow night. Appearance before union workers Monday. We'll just have to wait and see.

But I hope you can at least be honest and agree that this is not good for Obama.

Re: Combatting Ignorance: Report From Someone Actually At The Obama San Fran Event

Felicia — Sat, 12 Apr 2008 21:50:00 -0000

"Wow...the trolls are out tonight."

That's what I was thinking, too. At least JJP's appearance on CNN was good for something--it gave the Obama-haters a new website to visit. Welcome, guys and gals. Pull up a chair and get comfortable. This place is brimming with intellectualism, so be prepared for a bumpy ride.

Re: Combatting Ignorance: Report From Someone Actually At The Obama San Fran Event

Angela — Sat, 12 Apr 2008 21:33:00 -0000

you are all intelligent people...you could put together lists of why Hill and John are elitists and why Obama isn't.

wouldn't that be the best way to go forward?

Re: Combatting Ignorance: Report From Someone Actually At The Obama San Fran Event

Anonymous — Sat, 12 Apr 2008 21:23:00 -0000

Wow...the trolls are out tonight.

This is much ado about nothing. This will fade away quickly.

Most people won't know much about this, except that Obama cared enough about people to note they were frustrated with their govt, and yes, even "bitter."

If this is the best they can against Obama, he has nothing to worry about.

That being said, we all need to have his back on this and push back hard.

Re: Combatting Ignorance: Report From Someone Actually At The Obama San Fran Event

Anonymous — Sat, 12 Apr 2008 21:22:00 -0000

Obama is absolutely right in his thesis. And how many of his critics even have visited the people he is speaking about, much less tried to help them?
_____________________________________

I am one of them and I don't need your faux compassion or your help.

"For just $10 a day you too can help an unemployed steelworker in PA."

Re: Combatting Ignorance: Report From Someone Actually At The Obama San Fran Event

Anonymous — Sat, 12 Apr 2008 21:18:00 -0000

Speaking of someone being painted as a "liberal elitist"...well, that has already been done to Hillary Clinton over the course of the last 15 years.

Those same far right commentators that Hillary is now embracing would destroy her in a general election. Those same white rural voters would reject her by huge margins.

And keep in mind that many of these same white rural voters do not like the idea of a woman for president.

With any Democratic candidate, the GOP will try to portray them as a liberal elitist. It's in their playbook, they do it with every opponent.

But with Hillary they've already succeeded, and would only reinforce that.

Obama is teflon because people like him and see his inherent decency and honesty. With Hillary people automatically and justifiably believe the worst.

Re: Combatting Ignorance: Report From Someone Actually At The Obama San Fran Event

Anonymous — Sat, 12 Apr 2008 21:15:00 -0000

The media is clearly severely flawed and ignorant; indeed, they allowed Bush to start his Iraq war folly.

And since when did looking at people with compassion and noting their bitterness and anger translate to looking down upon them?

Obama is absolutely right in his thesis. And how many of his critics even have visited the people he is speaking about, much less tried to help them?

Re: Combatting Ignorance: Report From Someone Actually At The Obama San Fran Event

Anonymous — Sat, 12 Apr 2008 21:07:00 -0000

In their attempts to spin away from Barack Obama’s stunningly stupid remarks at a San Francisco fundraiser last weekend, Democrats and the Obama campaign have focused on only the least objectionable portion of the comment as a means to frame the national discussion. In a single sentence where Obama called small-town Midwestern voters overly religious bigots who cling to their guns out of frustration with George Bush, the Democrats have decided to build their defense on “bitter”. Here’s the original remark:

And it’s not surprising then they get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren’t like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations.

Bitterness, however, wasn’t the objectionable part of the statement. Hillary Clinton chose to chase that particular rabbit around the track, and some of the media followed, although not all. Obama’s camp seized on that and has tried adopting bitterness as its strategy, claiming that small-town voters are right to be bitter about an economic expansion that has created the lowest unemployment we have had in any 25-year period of this nation’s industrial history.

But that’s intellectually dishonest. Let’s break this statement into its component insults:

* “[T]hey cling to guns…” Cling to guns? Americans have “clung” to guns since the founding of the Republic. It’s such a core value to this nation that its founders placed it second on the Bill of Rights, right after freedom of speech and religion. Speaking of which …

* “or [they cling to] religion …” People don’t become religious because the economy hits a few bumps in the road. Obama may have chosen his religion based on politics, but most people follow a religion out of a deeper sense of spirituality. I can’t think of a more condescending and contemptuous analysis of religious dedication than this statement.

* “or [they cling to] antipathy to people who aren’t like them or anti-immigrant sentiment…” Small-town voters are bigots and xenophobes; there’s no other way to read the first part of this statement. The second part, about them being “anti-immigrant”, is a non-sequitur. They may be anti-illegal immigrant, but that’s a far different issue. Obama offers no proof that small-town voters are xenophobes, but the Frisco audience didn’t demand any, either. It’s part of their own bigotry that makes them see middle America in those terms.

* “or [they cling to] anti-trade sentiment …” And this is just jaw-droppingly hypocritical. This comes from the same candidate who opposes the Colombian free-trade agreement and wants to throw NAFTA out the window. Who’s clinging to anti-trade sentiment? Obama, Hillary Clinton, and Big Labor.

It would be difficult to be any more condescending or insulting in so many ways to so many voters in a single sentence.

Re: Combatting Ignorance: Report From Someone Actually At The Obama San Fran Event

Anonymous — Sat, 12 Apr 2008 20:56:00 -0000

If you go to the most expensive private school in Hawaii and then move on to Columbia University and Harvard Law School, you may not understand normal Americans. Their beliefs are so alien to your leftwing viewpoint that you have to seek some psychological explanation for what seem to be weird ideas.

They can’t really believe in the right to bear arms.

They can’t really believe in traditional marriage.

They can’t really believe in their faith in God.

They can’t really want to enforce the law on immigration.

Therefore, they must be “bitter” and “frustrated.”

This is the closest Senator Obama has come to openly sharing his wife’s view that “America is a mean country”. Not since Governor Dukakis have we seen anyone so out of touch with normal Americans. It makes perfect sense that it was in a fundraiser in San Francisco that he would have shared the views he has so carefully kept hidden for the entire campaign.

Re: Combatting Ignorance: Report From Someone Actually At The Obama San Fran Event

Anonymous — Sat, 12 Apr 2008 20:19:00 -0000

White women, Blacks, Asians, and Latinos: Obama already has those demographics on his side.

Working-class white men make up nearly one-quarter of the electorate, outnumbering African-American and Hispanic voters combined…

They are especially crucial in Ohio, where they make up about 28% of the vote, as well as other battleground states including Michigan (about 27%), West Virginia (33%), Missouri (27%), Minnesota (27%), Pennsylvania (27%), Wisconsin (29%) and Iowa (34%).

And if Obama wants to rewrite the electoral map he will need the white male voters to crossover in traditionally red states.

So again, can someone tell me how he will earn their votes?

Re: Combatting Ignorance: Report From Someone Actually At The Obama San Fran Event

Anonymous — Sat, 12 Apr 2008 19:49:00 -0000

Rural white male voters won't actually decide his fate. But, so much for logic..

Not much has changed in voter demographics sense Malcolm X made his historic speech about how white people vote so closely every time that if you create yourself a succint and large voting block you can effectively swing the vote your way. So in this election (in the general election) his fate will be decided by White women, Blacks, Asians, and Latinos and they have already shown to be incredibly strong forces. There are more white women than there are white men, and they are also more likely to vote.

He'd be better spending his time wooing women, period. He needs not only to add class as an issue but also talk about feminist issues.

Re: Combatting Ignorance: Report From Someone Actually At The Obama San Fran Event

Anonymous — Sat, 12 Apr 2008 19:34:00 -0000

Listen,

He said what he said, and he stands by it. He believes what he says is true. His supporter concur.

Add this to the list of the controversies he has created for himself and his candidacy.

He will become the nominee and in the general election. He has made his bed and he must lie in it.

He has defended Wright.

He has stated that he believes that bitter, frustrated, rural Americans 'cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren’t like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations' towards an unresponsive governement.

He has said that he will meet face to face with our enemies.

He has said he will renegotiate or not support new trade agreements with our allies.

He is proposing national healthcare, tax increases for those making $75,000 or more. He will raise the capital gains tax. he will raise corporate tax rates.

Well, guess what? people will disagree with him. They will argue against his proposals, his comments and his actions.

And in the end, the rural voters and white male voters will decide his fate.

So stop whining and start to figure out how to help Obama win over skeptical rural and white male voters.

Why should they vote for him?

Re: Combatting Ignorance: Report From Someone Actually At The Obama San Fran Event

Felicia — Sat, 12 Apr 2008 19:26:00 -0000

Here is the email I sent to Huffington Post. If you're pissed about this, too, I would urge you to do the same.

"Dear Huffpo:

It's disappointng that you're making the news instead of reporting it. I'm saddened that you would let Mayhill Fowler create a narrative about Sen. Obama that isn't true: that he's cocky and elitist. The man ate dog in Indonesia and was a food stamp recipient. But he's elitist? Huffington Post is no better than Fox News for giving Ms. Fowler a platform to do this hit job. Your ratings will skyrocket because of "bitter-gate," and Obama will probably lose PA by large double digits and perhaps lose the nomination, but you will have lost your soul, and that is worse. I thought Huffpo wanted to be different from MSM talking heads, but I guess that was all bluster from a "former" conservative--Arianna."

Re: Combatting Ignorance: Report From Someone Actually At The Obama San Fran Event

Ms.Martin — Sat, 12 Apr 2008 18:29:00 -0000

I have been waiting for someone else from the fundraising event to give another perspective to this story.

I would also like to hear from the "others" mentioned in the HufPo story that were there who were also "offended" by the remarks as stated in the story.

It appears that CNN is attempting once again to build-a-story all while ignoring a story.

A story about Clinton and her direct and financial connection to the CTA.

I hope the American people are more intellectual than MSM gives them credit.

It has been clear to me for months that they have tailored stories to circumvent the reality of issues and thereby affect public opinion on stories of little signifigance.

I personally do not think Obama's description of voters in Pennsylvania are any more offensive than MSM's description of voters throughout this process.

I would personally be offended by the inference that as an under/un-educated voter that I would be more inclined to support Hillary Clinton. That I would for some reason not be able to relate to a Barack Obama that my educational circumstances would reneder me uneducable.