Jack and Jill Politics - Latest Comments in Controversy over Black National Anthem and Star Spangled Banner

Re: Controversy over Black National Anthem and Star Spangled Banner

Scientific — Mon, 07 Jul 2008 19:43:57 -0000

She was wrong, in my opinion. For so many reasons, not the least of which she did it purely for self. Asinine.

Re: Controversy over Black National Anthem and Star Spangled Banner

socialtalker — Mon, 07 Jul 2008 18:40:34 -0000

the lyrics to the black national anthem are beautiful. there are no "kill whitey" words in it.
i thinks whites need to have black totally on their knees and apologizing for their existance in order for them to feel "safe". people who are insulting this woman for what i think is a slick creative way of interpeting the both anthems are need to get a backbone.

Lift ev'ry voice and sing,
Till earth and heaven ring.
Ring with the harmonies of Liberty;
Let our rejoicing rise,
High as the list'ning skies,
Let it resound loud as the rolling sea.
Sing a song full of the faith that the dark past has taught us,
Sing a song full of the hope that the present has brought us;
Facing the rising sun of our new day begun,
Let us march on till victory is won.

Stony the road we trod,
Bitter the chast'ning rod,
Felt in the days when hope unborn had died;
Yet with a steady beat,
Have not our weary feet,
Come to the place for which our fathers sighed?
We have come over a way that with tears has been watered,
We have come, treading our path through the blood of the slaughtered,
Out from the gloomy past,
Till now we stand at last
Where the white gleam of our bright star is cast.

God of our weary years,
God of our silent tears,
Thou who has brought us thus far on the way;
Thou who has by Thy might,
Led us into the light,
Keep us forever in the path, we pray.
Lest our feet stray from the places, our God, where we met Thee,
Lest our hearts, drunk with the wine of the world, we forget Thee,
Shadowed beneath thy hand,
May we forever stand,
True to our God,
True to our native land.

Re: Controversy over Black National Anthem and Star Spangled Banner

Sombody_took_my_username — Mon, 07 Jul 2008 18:09:08 -0000

I think Barack is more skillful at avoiding inappropriate questions than he is pretending to be.

Re: Controversy over Black National Anthem and Star Spangled Banner

TRW — Mon, 07 Jul 2008 17:20:40 -0000

Yeah, lying about it isn't going to cut it. The reporter could have easily explained the situation to him, or played the video back to him. And if he doesn't take a position, it just adds more fuel to the fire. I feel you on, why he shouldn't take ownership, but I just don't think it is realistic.
The truth of the matter is, unless there is someone working at these newspapers/stations that will call these reporters/journalists out on their BS, they will continue to harass Barack with every "Black news you can use" tidbit that pops up.

Re: Controversy over Black National Anthem and Star Spangled Banner

kenyaw — Mon, 07 Jul 2008 14:05:21 -0000

Always has been. Where have you been??

Re: Controversy over Black National Anthem and Star Spangled Banner

kenyaw — Mon, 07 Jul 2008 14:03:35 -0000

Webb,
You almost made me scream out loud and my director is like 4 feet away.
But, really Snoop and Pac do have some national anthem worthy stuff.
Please do another one, that was soooo funny.

Re: Controversy over Black National Anthem and Star Spangled Banner

Sombody_took_my_username — Mon, 07 Jul 2008 00:29:04 -0000

What's wrong with good old fashioned lying? Someone asked Barack whether he wore boxers or briefs, and he responded that he doesn't answer embarrassing questions. Why not say he wasn't aware of the incident? Why take ownership of this?

Re: Controversy over Black National Anthem and Star Spangled Banner

evita — Sun, 06 Jul 2008 21:06:36 -0000

Teacher... you are dead on. Thank you for expressing what I had in heart but not energy to express. Love me my JJP community!

Re: Controversy over Black National Anthem and Star Spangled Banner

CraigHickman — Sun, 06 Jul 2008 20:15:37 -0000

Alas, the assumptions that you make in this analysis are, well, presumptuous.

Re: Controversy over Black National Anthem and Star Spangled Banner

CraigHickman — Sun, 06 Jul 2008 20:13:15 -0000

I think b-serious provided a compelling argument as to why Barack "had" to respond to the question he was asked about it.

Re: Controversy over Black National Anthem and Star Spangled Banner

CraigHickman — Sun, 06 Jul 2008 20:12:13 -0000

I was blessed to participate in a high school chorus in Milwaukee, home of the Black Holocaust Museum, that sang it with full orchestration at a concert and competition.

Re: Controversy over Black National Anthem and Star Spangled Banner

PTCruiser — Sun, 06 Jul 2008 19:39:28 -0000

"I don't think they had a vision of contemporary life or society, or that our youth would be in such a desperate situation, but thats a whole other thread."

There have always been elements of our tribe who were quite cosmopolitan in terms of their outlook and what influenced and shaped their perspectives.

Re: Controversy over Black National Anthem and Star Spangled Banner

bigsmitty72 — Sun, 06 Jul 2008 19:35:19 -0000

The difference between Marvin, Jimi and this woman is that they performed the song they were asked to perform. She did not. Period.

Re: Controversy over Black National Anthem and Star Spangled Banner

Teacher — Sun, 06 Jul 2008 19:26:35 -0000

Thanks for the historical basis for your opinion.

I don't have a problem with you calling it whatever you want. I was giving my reasons for calling it what I want. I'm sure you know that. I think I've heard it called 3 different titles: Negro, Black & African American. I appreciate your proclivity for authenticity.

A lot of words used to be pejorative and now aren't and visa versa. James Weldon Johnson & Ralph Ellison used the words that were prevalent during their era, like we all do. When I was a kid, African Americans were called "colored people." Calling an African American Black was a fighting word back then. I don't think the upgrade disrespects our elders. I don't think they had a vision of contemporary life or society, or that our youth would be in such a desperate situation, but thats a whole other thread.

I respect you, PTCruiser & agree to disagree.

Re: Controversy over Black National Anthem and Star Spangled Banner

PTCruiser — Sun, 06 Jul 2008 19:09:44 -0000

Julian Priester - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Julian_Priester

Re: Controversy over Black National Anthem and Star Spangled Banner

Teacher — Sun, 06 Jul 2008 19:07:11 -0000

I don't hate the song, but I do hate that it is a WAR song, like Melinda stated above. I hate that my country/government is run by war mongers. I hate war, and am embarassed by the barbaric policies and practices of the government.

Re: Controversy over Black National Anthem and Star Spangled Banner

PTCruiser — Sun, 06 Jul 2008 18:55:11 -0000

I don't find your preference offensive but there is no need, in my opinion, to change the title bestowed on the song in order to give it a more contemporary feel. The people who began referring to James Weldon Johnson's song as the Negro National Anthem did not regard the term "Negro" as being pejorative. Ralph Ellison, for example, dedicated his posthumously published novel "Juneteenth" to what he called "the lost tribe of the American Negro people." The term "Negro" carried real weight and heft for many of our elders.

Re: Controversy over Black National Anthem and Star Spangled Banner

Teacher — Sun, 06 Jul 2008 18:53:39 -0000

Who is the musician? Did you know that Jazz is the first TRUE American art form? My son is performing at the Houston International Jazz Festivasl, and I am thrilled (waaaay more than him). He is 13. I am trying to transmit my deep love of Jazz music to him.

Re: Controversy over Black National Anthem and Star Spangled Banner

Teacher — Sun, 06 Jul 2008 18:47:17 -0000

TruthSeeker, as usual, you speak the truth. This also bothers me. I feel like he is being continuously manipulated, and I why he allows it. I think he should put his foot down. I have to remember that he is a very smart person and he will eventually gain a benefit from the decisions he makes.

Re: Controversy over Black National Anthem and Star Spangled Banner

Teacher — Sun, 06 Jul 2008 18:40:12 -0000

I use BLACK in the title of the song to bring it into the 21st century. We don't really refer to ourselves as negro any longer, and when we do, it's used as a pejorative. I don't feel shame one way or another, and don't mean to cause offense by my personal preference.

Re: Controversy over Black National Anthem and Star Spangled Banner

Teacher — Sun, 06 Jul 2008 18:35:17 -0000

Evita, as usual, I agree with you (pounding it/the fist jab, that is). It was profound. And while I agree that SHE SHOULD HAVE HONORED HER AGREEMENT AND SANG WHAT SHE WAS CONTRACTED TO SING, I am offended by those who are offended by it because it was/is the Black National Anthem. African American history IS American history! Why would any american find the Black National Anthem offensive?

karmi said: "Identifying one’s self as a member of a certain group, with that identity being given more importance than being an American first, may…distract from one seeing what America is about. "

I sincerely believe that most americans would love to be seen as "just americans." I think we really long for a post-racial society, but white supremacy won't allow it. The MSM identifies everyone by their race/ethnicity, unless they are white. We always hear, "a black man did it," instead of having to ask for the race/ethnicity. And, anyone who does not actively endorse white power &/or the continuation of white supremacy is called "anti-american" or racist, in a so-called reverse racism kinda way. WE really don't have a choice. Given the choice, I'm sure Obama would like the MSM to not refer to his race as often (we all know what it is by now), not inject race when it doesn't matter (which is most of the time), not use his race to suggest or imply that his race impedes his ability to govern the nation (as opposed to governing a group they say he represents more than a different group), and to desist with the racialy coded words and phrases to describe him, like "exotic," different & unknown. The real problem is that a Black (or other race) person's mere existance is seen as a threat to white supremacy, unless that individual proves over and over that they will work to maintain the current power structure. All this said, I do believe that God intended humanilty to be COLORFUL instead of COLOR BLIND, but no one wants their God-given racial or ethnic beauty used as a club to beat and oppress them.

BSerious, I also love reading your commentary.

Re: Controversy over Black National Anthem and Star Spangled Banner

Nita — Sun, 06 Jul 2008 17:38:23 -0000

That was a concise and to the point way of putting it, Chele.

Re: Controversy over Black National Anthem and Star Spangled Banner

Nita — Sun, 06 Jul 2008 17:37:07 -0000

PTCruiser -- you are absolutely correct. Your musician friend is also absolutely right about professionalism. I just shake my head at the folks who think this was some kind of grand, bold move. It wasn't.

Re: Controversy over Black National Anthem and Star Spangled Banner

PTCruiser — Sun, 06 Jul 2008 16:01:32 -0000

The issue is Rene Marie violating her agreement with Mayor Hickenlooper or the mayor's representative to sing the Star Spangled Banner. Ms. Marie's feelings about a "sense of segregation in each song" or Tom Tancredo's desire to have her condemned are, once again, irrelevant.

I spent yesterday with an old friend of mine who is unarguably one of the world's best jazz trombonists. He told me that he no longer plays jam sessions on stage with other musicians, especially younger ones, because he does not enjoy the music that is made. Now, his position may be eccentric because jazz music relies heavily on improvisation but he and his wife, who acts as his agent, clearly make his feelings on this matter known to club owners and concert promoters before signing for a gig. If the prospective client is not comfortable with his position he declines the job. This is what it means to be a professional.

Re: Controversy over Black National Anthem and Star Spangled Banner

TRW — Sun, 06 Jul 2008 15:56:12 -0000

I respect your argument, but its a little more complicated than that. Some, not all African Americans/Black people, view themselves as Black first, American second because of the history in this country. You may disagree with that, but the truth of the matter is, even when Black people were denied their full rights as American citizens, at the end of the day, they still were tied together through their cultural/historical history in this country. Their identity was something that couldn't be taken away. (that's a theory, I certainly can't speak for everyone).

As far as your statements, I think that is about perspective. I personally, didn't have a problem with either statement, because I read and understood the context in which they were being given. To condemn something is to damn something, and throughout the Bible, God condemned actions that were contrary to his teachings. For Rev. Wright, that included killing of the native people in this country and taking their land, putting Japanese people in internment camps during WWII, and enslaving Black people and denying them full citizenship for 200+ years--treating people in this country as less than humans. Now, he mentions other things in sermon that I don't agree with, but the things that I listed above I would cosign on. It's a historical fact that we have one of the most violent histories in this country and there are several instances where the government has not treated its own citizens, or people they didn't consider human, in a way that is not Christian like.

As far as Michelle O's comments, I really don't see what people are so up in arms about. I read her full quote and she said that in the first time in her adult life she was really proud of her country, not because her husband was doing well, but because people were active and engaged in the political process. How is that anti-American? People have talked for years about the lack of participation and overall apathy of the American voters, and she comments on how people seem to be really excited/engaged and critics lose their mind. There have been record turnouts in the primaries, and you would think that would be a good thing. But I knew it was coming. We have stopped listening to each other and instead ingest any narrative the mainstream press gives us, and wonder why we continue to stay in the dark.

And for your last statement, I absolutely agree that America has come a long way since 1968, and I agree that Rene Marie's protest/statement, or whatever she wants to call it was not only counterproductive, but inappropriate. I'm still having trouble figuring out what exactly she was protesting. But just because someone speaks out about racism does not necessarily mean that they are stuck in the past, because unfortunately, racism, and other isms still exist. But I do think that people can speak out about it and acknowledge the ways in which we have changed as a country. And speak out about it in a way that doesn't exploit racial division, or make broad generalizations.

And, I don't know about that last statement, how do you figure she is blinded by her own bigotry? I didn't see anything where she illustrated a hatred/disdain for a group of people.