Jack and Jill Politics - Latest Comments in Deal would have U.S. troops out of Iraq by 2012

Re: Deal would have U.S. troops out of Iraq by 2012

Coby_D — Fri, 22 Aug 2008 21:46:08 -0000

I think that's because the response was so disproportionate. Russia took what was essentially an internal dispute in Georgia and used it to launch a war of aggression. That's not to discount Georgia's role in the conflict, but I can't reconcile the Russian response to Georgia's actions.

Re: Deal would have U.S. troops out of Iraq by 2012

CraigHickman — Fri, 22 Aug 2008 18:45:07 -0000

Don't hold our breath.

Re: Deal would have U.S. troops out of Iraq by 2012

Maurice Stewart — Fri, 22 Aug 2008 18:34:26 -0000

It would be nice if that biased Wolf Blitzer could take his sight off "Hillary for VP" meme or his focus on McCain's positives and start focussing on some of McCain gaffes. Blitzer, Lou Dobbs, Campbell Brown, Anderson Cooper, Bill Schneider, Gloria Borger etc. ....These people are despicable. At least, with Faux news, you know where Hannity etc stand. I used to enjoy watching CNN, now I can't stand these "spin masters"...with the exception of Jack Cafferty.

Re: Deal would have U.S. troops out of Iraq by 2012

Admiral_Komack — Fri, 22 Aug 2008 18:21:25 -0000

WARNING: Off topic:

(s-This is for you)

FACTCHECK.ORG
Rezko Reality
McCain misfires as he attacks Obama's home purchase.

Summary
On the defensive over the extent of multiple McCain homes, the GOP candidate strikes back. But his TV spot gives an oversimplified and misleading account of how Obama bought his own $1.6 million house in Chicago.

The ad says Chicago power broker Tony Rezko got "political favors" including "$14 million from taxpayers." But there's no evidence of any connection to the Obama home purchase. The $14 million was to build apartments for low-income seniors. Obama wrote a letter supporting the "worthy" project, but both men say Rezko didn't ask for the letter.

It says Rezko "purchased part of the property [Obama] couldn't afford." Rezko's wife did buy an adjoining tract but later sold the land at a profit. Obama paid market price for his home.

McCain launched the attack after Obama ran one capitalizing on McCain's inability to recall for an interviewer how many homes the McCains own. Obama's ad says it's seven. The best tally we've seen puts the figure at eight, counting all the apartments and homes owned by McCain's wife, Cindy, and various family trusts, for themselves and their children.

http://www.newsweek.com/id/154782

Re: Deal would have U.S. troops out of Iraq by 2012

chrischambers — Fri, 22 Aug 2008 18:14:41 -0000

West Indians call it f*ckery. The devil's int eh details.

On the flip, perhaps Barack needs to be a tad more vocal on these issues, given his MIA on the Georgian invasion, etc...

Re: Deal would have U.S. troops out of Iraq by 2012

Admiral_Komack — Fri, 22 Aug 2008 17:25:14 -0000

Maybe McCain can give him a house...he (McCain) has so many.

Re: Deal would have U.S. troops out of Iraq by 2012

Admiral_Komack — Fri, 22 Aug 2008 17:23:51 -0000

Two words: Civil suit.

Re: Deal would have U.S. troops out of Iraq by 2012

Monie — Fri, 22 Aug 2008 17:14:06 -0000

And I never claimed that. I think Americans, both the people and media, in general, look at many conflicts as just black-and-white, even though there are many,many gray areas in between. You cannot demonize one country's aggression, while turning a "blind eye" to another. And I feel the Georgia-Russia conflict is an example to this. Too many articles in this country were headed, "Russia Invades Georgia," when the truth is Russia's response was reactive. And I think Georgia knew that a response from Russia was inevitable when they attacked South Ossetians and Russian peacekeepers, they just didn't consider the magnitude of that response. And thus, the "framed" narrative that is repeated over and over again is that Russia disproportionately attacked Georgia; as opposed to Russia responded to Georgia's aggression against South Ossetia.

Re: Deal would have U.S. troops out of Iraq by 2012

blksista — Fri, 22 Aug 2008 17:00:26 -0000

Ya know...nobody but NOBODY said that.

Re: Deal would have U.S. troops out of Iraq by 2012

Coby_D — Fri, 22 Aug 2008 16:55:07 -0000

No, they're no victim...but Russia isn't one either.

Re: Deal would have U.S. troops out of Iraq by 2012

Webb — Fri, 22 Aug 2008 16:52:50 -0000

No you didn't Ro...For those outside of Atlanta (courtesy ajc.com):

On the night of Oct. 31, 2007, Harris went to a private Halloween party at Studio 72, a Lawrenceville Highway nightclub owned by rap mogul Jermaine Dupri. At some point she bumped into Shayla Stevens, an Atlanta Falcons cheerleader working as a hostess at the event.

Moments later, Harris struck Stevens in the head with a nearly full bottle of rum, prosecutors said. Stevens fell down some stairs to a cement floor and suffered a severe facial cut. Stevens has a permanent scar, the judge said Friday in noting the severity of the attack.

DaBrat should've plead not guilty and went to trial...now she's going to the lockup where she'll have her choice of prospects. She probably wanted to go to the pokey anyway. I know she's will miss her phine *** girlfriend. Will the girlfriend wait till DaBrat gets out...or will she move on...drama.

Re: Deal would have U.S. troops out of Iraq by 2012

Monie — Fri, 22 Aug 2008 16:41:33 -0000

I wholeheartedly agee. I lived abroad back in 2003 when the war started and during the first two years of the war, and I can tell you, I saw the carnage and chaos experienced by the Iraqi people on local televison abraod that you would never be able to see here in the U.S. Even today, many Americans do no know the true toll this war has taken on the Iraqi people, whether casualties or the refugee crisis, because there has never been a priority to report that in this country. No one can even tell us how many Iraqis have died as a result of this war.

Re: Deal would have U.S. troops out of Iraq by 2012

Monie — Fri, 22 Aug 2008 16:32:48 -0000

That may be true, but that does not excuse Georgia's behavior, bombarding South Ossetians since early July and then killing hundreds of South Ossetians and 12 peacekeepers on August 8, 2008 BEFORE Russia responded. Georgia FORCEFULLY violated a cease-fire between these groups. GEORGIA IS NO VICTIM IN THIS CONFLICT.

Re: Deal would have U.S. troops out of Iraq by 2012

Coby_D — Fri, 22 Aug 2008 16:25:51 -0000

Whatever happened to "response in kind?" What Russia's done is WAY outside of that.

Re: Deal would have U.S. troops out of Iraq by 2012

RobM — Fri, 22 Aug 2008 16:24:18 -0000

I have no doubt that Bush has done everything possible to keep his party in power. We cannot assume that occurences in othe parts of the world are a reflection of the US's agenda. Power rivalries existed long before we came on the scene. It is very dangerous to assume that because we don't hear about it from the press it doesn't exist. We must expand our horizons. Read the Economist, the UK Times or Agence France-Presse to find out what matters ot others in the world.

Re: Deal would have U.S. troops out of Iraq by 2012

Monie — Fri, 22 Aug 2008 16:18:25 -0000

I am very suspicious about Georgia's actions especially regarding the timing and actions and responses of Bush, McCain, and Randy Schuenemann, a top lobbyist for Georgia and foreign policy advisor for McCain. Here's why:

First off, Schuenmann has acceped lots of money of behalf of Georgia (who has a very strategic oil pipeline running through it), and Schueneman has been succesful in getting John McCain to sponsor legislation on Georgia's behalf.

2. President Bush asked NATO this past April to help fast-track Georgia's acceptance into NATO. It did not happen. The problem is that both South Ossetia and Abkhazia have had de facto autonomy since they fought a civil war with Georgia. Russia has peacekeepers in the regions to help enforce a "cease-fire" between the groups. Of course with that de facto autonomy, Georgia is not "unified" with South Ossetia and Abkahzia, within its "border."

3. Georgia began bombarding Tshinvali, the capital of South Ossetia on JULY 3, 2008, killing a few people, but nothing wide-scale at the time.

4. On July 15, 2008 U.S. troops and Georgian troops began military exercises near Tbilisi, the capital of Georgia. Of course Russia became suspicious of this activity in lignt of Georgia's attacks on South Ossetia weeks before.

5. The exercises wrapped up right around the time of GEORGIA'S INVASION OF SOUTH OSSETIA on August 8, 2008. Many hundred people were killed including 12 Russian peacekeepers.------Russian then responded, and pushed Georgian troops out of South Ossetia, back into Georgia.

Many media outlets know this but they contined to use the headline "RUSSIA INVADES GEORGIA" when in actuality, Russia was responding to Georgia's military aggression against South Ossetia and Russian peacekeepers. Now, Russia was very powerful in their response, but it is scary that this conflict keeps being framed as a Russian "flex of power" when Georgia initiated this conflict.

Now, with America's support of missile systems being set up in Poland , it will only strain Russia-U.S. relations. And whether we admit it or not, the U.S. will need Russia to deal with Iran and others. Our military power can only go so far and we are already stretched thin with Iraq and Afghanistan.

Re: Deal would have U.S. troops out of Iraq by 2012

Jibreel Riley — Fri, 22 Aug 2008 15:47:28 -0000

good news eh... more of President Bush great deeds

Re: Deal would have U.S. troops out of Iraq by 2012

Monie — Fri, 22 Aug 2008 15:28:18 -0000

John McCain and his camp have always been able to scream a message that is often not entirely true, but because it is repeated over and over, people start to believe it.

Case in point: the "surge"

McCain, who on the CBS interview, mistakend the timing of the Awakening, has continously harped that the troop increase and dip in violence equals "success" and that he was absolutely "correct" about the surge.

Just yesterday, the New York Times had a article titled : "IRAQ TAKES AIM AT U.S.-TIED SUNNI GROUPS' LEADERS"
Basically, hostilites are growing between the Shiite-dominated government and the members of the Sunni-led Awakening members who were instrumental in quelling the violence. Many of the members of the Awakening joined the American payroll (yes, we paid them to turn against Al-qaeda and other insurgent groups) and helped drive down violence, even before all US "surge" troops arrived in Iraq. Now, those same Awakening members "want to use their influence on the ground into political power." However, the Shiite-government does not want to extend that power. The Iraqi government is driving out many of the leaders of the Sunni citizen patrol, arresting some of them.

In the article, Sheik Jalaldeen al Sagheer, a leading Shiite member of the Iraqi Parliament said "The state(Iraq) cannot accept the awakening. Their days are numbered.

Now, the arrest of Sunni Awakening members and the growing rift can possibly initiate another rise in Sunni insurgency and drive many of them back to attacks and supporting al_Qaeda in Iraq. The U.S. has helped create an civil war in Iraq and no amount of U.S. forces can eliminate the political rifts that exist in Iraq after we executed regime change and changed the political landscape of their sovereign nation. That is why I believe Senator Obama has been reluctant to proclaim a "true" success of U.S. troop surge. The troop surge helped bring down violence but it does not fundamentally solve the cause of the violence. That can only be reconciled by the Iraqi people---no matter how long our troops stay there. That is the message Obama needs to drive to the American people.

Re: Deal would have U.S. troops out of Iraq by 2012

Admiral_Komack — Fri, 22 Aug 2008 15:01:43 -0000

WARNING: OFF TOPIC:

McCains Bought Second Beach Condo At Around Time McCain Said Struggling Homeowners Needed To Skip Vacations
By Greg Sargent - August 21, 2008, 2:37PM

Here's a fun little find that is likely to give Dems more ammo to blast away at John McCain's number-of-houses gaffe.

It turns out that a few months ago, a McCain family corporation closed on a second multi-million-dollar beach condo in the same building in exclusive Coronado, California -- at around the same time that John McCain offered his somewhat tone-deaf observation that struggling homeowners were "working at second jobs" and "skipping a vacation" in order to make mortgage payments on time.

Cindy McCain discussed the timing of the second condo purchase in a June interview with Vogue magazine (not online) that's newly relevant in light of the explosive controversy over John McCain's inability to recall how many homes the McCains own.

And in another fun fact that could pour fuel on this controversy, Cindy told her interviewer that the reason they needed a second beach condo in the Coronado building was that the first was too crowded because her kids were staying there and as a result she "couldn't get in the place."

Cindy continued: "So I bought another one."

Here's the relevant passage, from the start of the Vogue piece:

"It is a late Sunday afternoon in April, and I am sitting in a condominium in Coronado, California, taking in the view of the gorgeous San Diego Bay with Cindy McCain. She closed on the place just two weeks earlier, and the only things unpacked so far are the family photos that dot almost every surface. It's her family's second condo in the building. "I like the ocean, and the kids love it here, and I love that," she tells me, curled up on a nondescript couch that looks like it might have come with the apartment. "When I bought the first one, my husband, who is not a beach person, said, 'Oh, this is such a waste of money; the kids will never go.' Then it got to the point where they used it so much I couldn't get in the place. So I bought another one."

According to a July story in The Politico, a McCain family corporation spent a combined $4.7 million on the two condos in Coronado.

If the interview was conducted sometime in April, and she'd closed on the condo two weeks earlier, that means that the latest the closing could have happened is mid-April, and the earliest is mid-March.

On March 25, John McCain said:

"And 51 million homeowners are doing what's necessary: working at second jobs, skipping a vacation, and managing their budgets to make their payments on time."

So at around the time McCain said this, the McCain family corporation was either actively in the market for, or had closed on, a second multi-million-dollar beach condo in the same building which was necessary because the first one was too crowded with their children in it.

http://tpmelectioncentral.talkingpointsmemo.com...

Re: Deal would have U.S. troops out of Iraq by 2012

Ro — Fri, 22 Aug 2008 14:56:44 -0000

Da Brat got sentenced to three years for fighting in a war.

Re: Deal would have U.S. troops out of Iraq by 2012

Admiral_Komack — Fri, 22 Aug 2008 14:37:55 -0000

"3. Does this mean that John McCain is the last person who wants to keep up the Iraq War?"

-Hey now!

He was for it BEFORE he was against it, and anyway, he had a plan, and it was at his house in...or maybe it was at the condo at...or maybe the condo at...well, I think he's tired, after all he needs to be well rested for that 3 a.m. phone call...in the Cone of Silence...