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"page": 1, "is_moderator": false, "display_username": "", "points": null, "subscribe_on_post": 2, "moderator_can_edit": false, "is_remote": false, "is_verified": false, "missing_perm": "login"}, "realtime_paused": false, "posts": {"3795712": {"up_voted": false, "ip": "", "has_replies": false, "message": "Hi Craig -- it is all over the bible.  Here are a few from the old and new testament.<br><br>Old Testament Scriptures Regarding Sex Before Marriage<br>Exodus 22:16-17<br>If a man seduces a virgin who is not pledged to be married and sleeps with her, he must pay the bride-price, and she shall be his wife. If her father absolutely refuses to give her to him, he must still pay the bride-price for virgins.<br><br>[If premarital sex occurs, then an Israelite male was to marry the woman he slept with - that is, assuming the father allowed the marriage.]<br><br>Deuteronomy 22:13-21<br>If a man takes a wife and, after lying with her, dislikes her and slanders her and gives her a bad name, saying, \"I married this woman, but when I approached her, I did not find proof of her virginity,\" then the girl's father and mother shall bring proof that she was a virgin to the town elders at the gate. The girl's father will say to the elders, \"I gave my daughter in marriage to this man, but he dislikes her. Now he has slandered her and said, 'I did not find your daughter to be a virgin.' But here is the proof of my daughter's virginity.\" Then her parents shall display the cloth before the elders of the town, and the elders shall take the man and punish him. They shall fine him a hundred shekels of silver and give them to the girl's father, because this man has given an Israelite virgin a bad name. She shall continue to be his wife; he must not divorce her as long as he lives. If, however, the charge is true and no proof of the girl's virginity can be found, she shall be brought to the door of her father's house and there the men of her town shall stone her to death. She has done a disgraceful thing in Israel by being promiscuous while still in her father's house. You must purge the evil from among you. <br><br>Proverbs 5:15-21<br>Drink water from your own cistern, running water from your own well. Should your springs overflow in the streets, your streams of water in the public squares? Let them be yours alone, never to be shared with strangers. May your fountain be blessed, and may you rejoice in the wife of your youth. A loving doe, a graceful deer-- may her breasts satisfy you always, may you ever be captivated by her love. Why be captivated, my son, by an adulteress? Why embrace the bosom of another man's wife? For a man's ways are in full view of the LORD, and he examines all his paths.<br><br>[A man's \"fountain\" should be saved for \"the wife of [his] youth.\" The man is to be a virgin when he takes his wife.]<br><br>[In addition to these three Scriptures, there are 32 other verses in the Old Testament speaking about a \"virgin\" or \"virgins.\" Each of these passages shows that virginity was highly cherished as the standard for God's people.]<br><br>New Testament Scriptures Regarding Sex Before Marriage<br>[When we come to the New Testament we don't have verses explicitly describing the act of premarital sex and its consequences like we do in Exodus or Deuteronomy. It is clear, however, that virginity is still the standard for unmarried Christians and that sex outside the context of marriage is still considered sin.]<br><br>1 Corinthians 6:16-18<br>Do you not know that he who unites himself with a prostitute is one with her in body? For it is said, \"The two will become one flesh.\" But he who unites himself with the Lord is one with him in spirit. Flee from sexual immorality. All other sins a man commits are outside his body, but he who sins sexually sins against his own body. <br><br>[Sexual intimacy \"unites\" you with the other person. When this uniting of flesh happens outside of marriage, it is called \"sexual immorality.\" One fleshness is to be limited to the one you marry. This is similar to what we saw in Exodus 22:16-17.] <br><br>1 Corinthians 7:1-2<br>Now about the questions you asked in your letter. Yes, it is good to live a celibate life. But because there is so much sexual immorality, each man should have his own wife, and each woman should have her own husband.<br><br>1 Corinthians 7:8-9<br>Now I say to those who aren't married and to widows it's better to stay unmarried, just as I am. But if they can't control themselves, they should go ahead and marry. It's better to marry than to burn with lust.<br><br>[If you are struggling with wanting to have sex, get married. Premarital sex isn't an option for dealing with lust. It's either marriage or you are in sexual sin.]<br><br>Ephesians 5:31<br><br>\"For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh.\"<br><br>[Paul is quoting from Genesis 2:24 and affirming the Old Testament standard of uniting in flesh only with your spouse. One fleshness is to happen when a man leaves his father and mother and is \"united to his wife.\" Compare with 1 Corinthians 6:16-18.]<br><br>1 Thessalonians 4:2-8<br>For you know what instructions we gave you by the authority of the Lord Jesus. It is God's will that you should be sanctified: that you should avoid sexual immorality; that each of you should learn to acquire a wife in a way that is holy and honorable, not in passionate lust like the heathen, who do not know God; and that in this manner no one should cheat his brother or take advantage of him. <br><br>The Lord will punish men for all such sins, as we have already told you and warned you. For God did not call us to be impure, but to live a holy life. Therefore, he who rejects this instruction does not reject man but God, who gives you his Holy Spirit.<br><br>[\"Acquire a wife in a way that is holy and honorable\" or you are in sexual immorality. Sexual sin harms others besides those who engage in it. In adultery, the spouse is always wronged. Premarital sex \"cheats\" the future partner by robbing him or her of the virginity that ought to be brought to marriage.]<br><br>Hebrews 13:4<br>Marriage should be honored by all, and the marriage bed kept pure, for God will judge the adulterer and all the sexually immoral. <br><br>[Again, it's a pure marriage bed or you are an \"adulterer\" or \"sexually immoral.\"]<br><br>1 Timothy 5:2<br>Treat older women as mothers, and younger women as sisters, with absolute purity. <br><br>[As a Christian man, if you are not married to her, then she is your sister (who you must treat \"with absolute purity\").]<br><br>1 Corinthians 7:7:28,34,36-38<br><br>[Note in these verses how virginity is assumed for unmarried women living in Christian homes. This is the same thing as we saw in the Old Testament. Virginity was the standard for God's people.]<br><br>2 Corinthians 11:2<br>I am jealous for you with a godly jealousy. I promised you to one husband, to Christ, so that I might present you as a pure virgin to him.<br><br>[Although this passage is talking about Christ and His people, it uses the analogy of a Christian man receiving his bride \"as a pure virgin.\" Virginity was the ideal. Premarital sex was viewed as sexual immorality - just as in the Old Testament.]<br><br><br>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------<br><br>The standard in both the Old and New Testament regarding premarital sex is the same. Premarital sex is considered sin and a violation of the uniting of bodies that should happen only in marriage.<br><br>It is important to say, however, that many Christians have violated this standard. THIS WAS TRUE OF THOSE IN THE EARLY CHURCH TOO.<br><br>1 Corinthians 6:9-11<br>Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders... will inherit the kingdom of God. And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.<br><br>Christians were sinners before they came to Christ and Christians are still sinners after they come to Christ. If you have violated God's standards of premarital sex, but are repentant, then accept the FACT that you are washed, made pure, and in a right relationship with your heavenly Father. Seek the miracle of His power filling you to overcome further temptation toward sexual sin.<br><br>Craig there are a lot more but that should give you some insight.<br><br>Blessings<br>- Val", "is_last_child": false, "can_reply": true, "down_voted": false, "real_date": "2008-11-15_20:52:07", "killed": false, "user_key": "Val2", "has_been_anonymized": false, "edited": false, "author_is_moderator": false, "from_request_user": false, "votable": true, "date": "1 year ago", "approved": true, "num_replies": 0, "is_first_child": false, "email": "", "parent_post_id": 3792555, "depth": 6, "points": 1, "author_is_creator": false, "is_realtime": false}, "3781505": {"up_voted": false, "ip": "", "has_replies": false, "message": "This is a STATE initiative/law...no federal monies could be involved.  NO church could be forced to perform any wedding they didn't want to, whether hetero or homo.....and if a church offers health care insurance (most don't unless it is to ministers....there are few other full time employees.....) to legal spouses, they would have to cover gay spouses, whether by marriage or civil union.<br><br>marriage is marriage.  a civil union is a cold contract.  if i were going to marry a woman, i'd want a minister, a white dress, AND a rockin/ reception.  not a contract signing.", "is_last_child": false, "can_reply": true, "down_voted": false, "real_date": "2008-11-14_17:29:58", "killed": false, "user_key": "renegademom", "has_been_anonymized": false, "edited": false, "author_is_moderator": false, "from_request_user": false, "votable": true, "date": "1 year ago", "approved": true, "num_replies": 0, "is_first_child": false, "email": "", "parent_post_id": null, "depth": 0, "points": 0, "author_is_creator": false, "is_realtime": false}, "3781378": {"up_voted": false, "ip": "", "has_replies": true, "message": "I don't have answers to these questions, BUT<br><br>These kinds of questions are one of the reasons I am strongly in favor of separation of church and state when it comes to couples/relationships/families.<br><br>These kinds of questions are why I myself want to see a focus on making civil unions available on a non-discriminatory basis from the state and getting the state out of the marriage business altogether. Let the government deal with non-religious issues of couplehood and state-recognized families. And let religion deal with the religious issues. <br><br>In my view, the US should not act like a theocracy. And on the other side, the government has no business telling religious institutions who their rituals should or should not include.<br><br>Civil unions for the state.<br><br>Marriage for the religious institutions/groups.<br><br>People who want to get married -- go to your church, synagogue, mosque, priestess, whatever.<br><br>People who want legal rights of couplehood from the state: get a civil union. <br><br>People who feel like they need marriage and a civil union? No problem. You can have both. If your religious institution does not accept the kind of couplehood you have, either try  to change it from within, or find another religious institution. There are many variations even within each religion.<br><br>In my view, the government of this country has no business legislating about religion. Religious institutions have no business messing with government legislation about civil benefits and issues. And religious leaders have no business being deputized by the government and acting as government agents when they are performing religious rites based on their particular belief systems.<br><br>I would be interested to know if there would be the possibility of a movement toward this kind of separation of church and state re: couplehood, with a real coalition from opposite sides of the so-called \"gay marriage\" debate.<br><br>Unfortunately, I am not an organizer. This is not self-deprecating at all, it's just, that's not my role.<br><br>However, I might well be interested in supporting such a movement if it emerged and was relatively sane (conditional some social movements don't feel relatively sane to me so I can't be involved).", "is_last_child": false, "can_reply": true, "down_voted": false, "real_date": "2008-11-14_17:18:48", "killed": false, "user_key": "4ec3c0272b87ba5c8ce3a9168cf4e78a", "has_been_anonymized": false, "edited": false, "author_is_moderator": false, "from_request_user": null, "votable": true, "date": "1 year ago", "approved": true, "num_replies": 22, "is_first_child": false, "email": "", "parent_post_id": null, "depth": 0, "points": 1, "author_is_creator": false, "is_realtime": false}, "3792555": {"up_voted": false, "ip": "", "has_replies": true, "message": "Where and in what words do the\" laws of Christ\" forbid premarital sex?", "is_last_child": false, "can_reply": true, "down_voted": false, "real_date": "2008-11-15_15:00:06", "killed": false, "user_key": "CraigHickman", "has_been_anonymized": false, "edited": false, "author_is_moderator": false, "from_request_user": false, "votable": true, "date": "1 year ago", "approved": true, "num_replies": 1, "is_first_child": false, "email": "", "parent_post_id": 3792139, "depth": 5, "points": 0, "author_is_creator": false, "is_realtime": false}, "3793668": {"up_voted": false, "ip": "", "has_replies": false, "message": "At some level, Craig, what you're saying reassures me. Because the \"marriage equality\" movement itself feels dissonant to me in a big way and I question the effectiveness in a grassroots effort, at least at this point in time.  <br><br>I do stand opposed to the marriage equality movement because I find them painfully based in certain forms of deception (some, or at least one, of which you and I have discussed).<br><br>And the hard-core people on the other side scare me big-time as well (like I was looking into what happened in Arkansas with Act 1 or whatever it's called and I am currently spooked at levels I can't even express about THAT -- and really I don't understand why the movement isn't more up in arms about that because it is so much worse than what happened in CA IMO).<br><br>So it means a lot to me to read your certainty on the courts as mechanism, Craig. Because after reading about those people in Arkansas, up at 4am last night reading some of their website actually, I am spooked big time. And I can't see how legislation or initiatives would have anything to do with this in the end. Which doesn't mean it's impossible, but ... I am seriously spooked<br><br>So reading your comment, punctuated with that powerful last line <i>Mark my words</i> is pretty grounding for me -- and for that I thank you.", "is_last_child": false, "can_reply": true, "down_voted": false, "real_date": "2008-11-15_16:16:20", "killed": false, "user_key": "4ec3c0272b87ba5c8ce3a9168cf4e78a", "has_been_anonymized": false, "edited": false, "author_is_moderator": false, "from_request_user": null, "votable": true, "date": "1 year ago", "approved": true, "num_replies": 0, "is_first_child": false, "email": "", "parent_post_id": 3792682, "depth": 6, "points": 0, "author_is_creator": false, "is_realtime": false}, "3783430": {"up_voted": false, "ip": "", "has_replies": true, "message": "Put another way . . . <br><br><i>I would like to know about the legal ramifications of interracial marriage.<br><br>How it would affect the church?<br><br>What do I mean?<br><br>Could a church be forced into performing marriages between whites and blacks? <br><br>There are a number of churches that get federal monies for services to the community that they perform (after school programs, day care centers, etc.). Could their money be taken away from them if they don\u2019t perform interracial marriages?<br><br>If said churches have  employees in interracial marriages, would they be forced to cover the spouses if they provide such coverage for couples of same race marriages, even though the church doesn\u2019t believe in interracial marriage?<br><br>Thank you for any answers that are provided.</i>", "is_last_child": false, "can_reply": true, "down_voted": false, "real_date": "2008-11-14_20:08:48", "killed": false, "user_key": "bigassbelle", "has_been_anonymized": false, "edited": false, "author_is_moderator": false, "from_request_user": false, "votable": true, "date": "1 year ago", "approved": true, "num_replies": 31, "is_first_child": false, "email": "", "parent_post_id": null, "depth": 0, "points": 0, "author_is_creator": false, "is_realtime": false}, "3781889": {"up_voted": false, "ip": "", "has_replies": true, "message": "pragmatist: work within the system and get gay marriage pushed through.<br><br>idealist: change the system so that marriage is religious-only, civil unions protect families, and we have universal health care so that people aren't relying on their employers/partners for basic needs.", "is_last_child": false, "can_reply": true, "down_voted": false, "real_date": "2008-11-14_18:02:10", "killed": false, "user_key": "saralovesyou", "has_been_anonymized": false, "edited": false, "author_is_moderator": false, "from_request_user": false, "votable": true, "date": "1 year ago", "approved": true, "num_replies": 1, "is_first_child": false, "email": "", "parent_post_id": 3781867, "depth": 6, "points": 0, "author_is_creator": false, "is_realtime": false}, "3781512": {"up_voted": false, "ip": "", "has_replies": true, "message": "I don't know about the insurance question, but many churches already put restrictions on who they will marry (you have to be a member of that particular church or denomination, you have to take premarital counseling classes, etc), so I don't think a change in the laws about gay marriage would change that.", "is_last_child": false, "can_reply": true, "down_voted": false, "real_date": "2008-11-14_17:30:24", "killed": false, "user_key": "b45f45c3d16eaa32e1783c1d1798a893", "has_been_anonymized": false, "edited": false, "author_is_moderator": false, "from_request_user": null, "votable": true, "date": "1 year ago", "approved": true, "num_replies": 1, "is_first_child": false, "email": "", "parent_post_id": null, "depth": 0, "points": 0, "author_is_creator": false, "is_realtime": false}, "3792620": {"up_voted": false, "ip": "", "has_replies": false, "message": "Which is why I would have moved there if McCain was elected.<br><br>My husband retained is Dutch citizenship. I love the country, but it should be indoors. It's always raining.", "is_last_child": false, "can_reply": true, "down_voted": false, "real_date": "2008-11-15_15:07:06", "killed": false, "user_key": "CraigHickman", "has_been_anonymized": false, "edited": false, "author_is_moderator": false, "from_request_user": false, "votable": true, "date": "1 year ago", "approved": true, "num_replies": 0, "is_first_child": false, "email": "", "parent_post_id": 3784039, "depth": 3, "points": 0, "author_is_creator": false, "is_realtime": false}, "3783307": {"up_voted": false, "ip": "", "has_replies": false, "message": "This is why there's a seperation between church and state. I don't know very much but I am under the impression that Faith-based Initiatives (federal monies for church programs) are controversial because churches are still free to operate those programs with federal money without conforming to laws re: discrimination based on gender/sexuality. This is the muddy part of our politics meeting religious ideology. When faith-based organizations push for legislation, then fight for federal funding (while enjoying tax exemption), and then declare themselves free to discriminate and preach against segments of our society because they are protected and seperate, I have a hard time with the double-standard. <br><br>I think there's a lot of misinformation and worst-case scenarios being floated out there to drive a fear-based opposition to allowing the gay community the right to civil unions. Personally, I don't mind. I'm not worried about the state of my marriage. I think we want to promote monogomy today. We want to impart to our children the value of commitment. Why is that value only applicable to heterosexual couples? And not to be a wise ass, but when I got married we spent around $20k. Weddings and babies. Man. BIG time money makers. You get hammered for the dress, the invitations, the cake...on and on. AND ON! I get a little snarky about making that \"marriage tax\" exclusive to the heterosexual community. Stimulate local economies! Allow gays to marry! It's good business!<br><br>I don't know much. But I have two kids. And I don't know if one day they'll fall in love with someone of the same sex. And it breaks my heart that because of that which they cannot deny, society would see them as \"less than\". As a mother, I couldn't endure it.", "is_last_child": false, "can_reply": true, "down_voted": false, "real_date": "2008-11-14_19:57:01", "killed": false, "user_key": "12012e035f1cec476af81a5d239bae4c", "has_been_anonymized": false, "edited": false, "author_is_moderator": false, "from_request_user": null, "votable": true, "date": "1 year ago", "approved": true, "num_replies": 0, "is_first_child": false, "email": "", "parent_post_id": null, "depth": 0, "points": 0, "author_is_creator": false, "is_realtime": false}, "3785868": {"up_voted": false, "ip": "", "has_replies": false, "message": "Part of the issue is that most people believe the Civil Rights Act was comprehensive, which is was not.<br><br>From the US Department of Justice:<br><a href=\"http://www.usdoj.gov/crt/cor/coord/titlevi.php\" rel=\"nofollow\">http://www.usdoj.gov/crt/cor/coord/titlevi.php</a><br><br>\" \tTitle VI, 42 U.S.C. \u00a7 2000d et seq., was enacted as part of the landmark Civil Rights Act of 1964. It prohibits discrimination on the basis of race, color, and national origin in programs and activities receiving federal financial assistance. \"<br><br>Big picture, yes you are dead on. Local picture- discriminating against gay people is largely legal. Unless of course, the equal protection clause means anything...", "is_last_child": false, "can_reply": true, "down_voted": false, "real_date": "2008-11-14_23:58:44", "killed": false, "user_key": "evita", "has_been_anonymized": false, "edited": false, "author_is_moderator": false, "from_request_user": false, "votable": true, "date": "1 year ago", "approved": true, "num_replies": 0, "is_first_child": false, "email": "", "parent_post_id": 3784922, "depth": 4, "points": 0, "author_is_creator": false, "is_realtime": false}, "3782285": {"up_voted": false, "ip": "", "has_replies": true, "message": "Craig, the only place we may disagree (though that seems too strong a word, really) is that I'm finding myself interested in what might happen if we were to remove the word marriage -- and thus explicitly cede marriage to the religious side -- from the bones of contention. <br><br>I do wonder ... Would that move yield the possibility of interesting and effective coalitions? Failing that, would it assist in cutting through the blurring and rhetoric and ideologue-ness on both sides in some way and showing the real stakes of the struggle? <br><br>(my gut tells me that -- given what I saw with the dynamics of the presidential election -- maybe cutting through the blurriness and rhetoric might possibly be a way to isolate and shrink down the anti-gay side of things, bringing it down to its smaller essence or extremists who are visible as such.)<br><br>Just thinking out loud.", "is_last_child": false, "can_reply": true, "down_voted": false, "real_date": "2008-11-14_18:22:07", "killed": false, "user_key": "4ec3c0272b87ba5c8ce3a9168cf4e78a", "has_been_anonymized": false, "edited": false, "author_is_moderator": false, "from_request_user": null, "votable": true, "date": "1 year ago", "approved": true, "num_replies": 5, "is_first_child": false, "email": "", "parent_post_id": 3781986, "depth": 4, "points": 0, "author_is_creator": false, "is_realtime": false}, "3784718": {"up_voted": false, "ip": "", "has_replies": true, "message": "I'm not wanting to argue. I don't know where your frustration is coming from. <br><br>The only explanation I've heard so far from folks who don't want to equate this to civil rights, or who don't like the comparison to interracial marriage, are those who insist it's not the same because being gay is a choice.", "is_last_child": false, "can_reply": true, "down_voted": false, "real_date": "2008-11-14_22:01:49", "killed": false, "user_key": "bigassbelle", "has_been_anonymized": false, "edited": false, "author_is_moderator": false, "from_request_user": false, "votable": true, "date": "1 year ago", "approved": true, "num_replies": 8, "is_first_child": false, "email": "", "parent_post_id": 3784359, "depth": 4, "points": 0, "author_is_creator": false, "is_realtime": false}, "3792527": {"up_voted": false, "ip": "", "has_replies": false, "message": "<i>Now, the funny thing about religion, is that if anyone made Christians live according to the letter of their biblical law....their lives would quickly become unbearable.</i><br><br>::<br><br>From extended family experiences, I can tell you that the strict constructionists among them when it comes Biblical law have had unbearable lives since birth.", "is_last_child": true, "can_reply": true, "down_voted": false, "real_date": "2008-11-15_14:56:46", "killed": false, "user_key": "CraigHickman", "has_been_anonymized": false, "edited": false, "author_is_moderator": false, "from_request_user": false, "votable": true, "date": "1 year ago", "approved": true, "num_replies": 0, "is_first_child": false, "email": "", "parent_post_id": 3784251, "depth": 2, "points": 0, "author_is_creator": false, "is_realtime": false}, "3792139": {"up_voted": false, "ip": "", "has_replies": true, "message": "You are so wrong about me Truthseeker.  :-)<br><br>Truth - this is why I LOVE JJP and I appreciate our conversations.  <br><br>Here's a personal story.  I was raised in a religious household and I was raised knowing that sex before marriage was a sin.  Period.  It was in the scriptures, I read it , understood it and accepted it as truth (there are other sins but let me focus on this one as an example).<br><br>At 19 years old I chose to have sex knowing if I died that same day I would probably burn in hell or worse (not be accepted into the kingdom) because it was against the laws of Christ.  But I made my choice, relished the experiences and I was fully aware of the cost of my decision.  I enjoyed the physical acts and nothing and no one was out of bounds.  I selected who I wanted to be involved with and when.  <br><br>Did I expect my parents or anyone in the Church to approve of my choices?  No, absolutely not but it wasn't their business it was my own.  The responsibility was mine.  <br><br>Did I expect for someone to pass laws to enforce the acceptance of those decisions by any religious group?  No absolutely not.  It was against everything in the scripture and against the teachings of God and the Christian faith.  Besides, I didn't need their approval.  Ultimately I was accountable to only one person and I was willing to accept the cost.  Long story short, finally I made a personal choice to go back to my religion and stop what I was doing because I wanted to be in line with my faith.<br><br>So the moral of this story is what?  If this decision is left up to the religious community Prop 8 will NEVER pass because it is against the laws.  They are not allowed to be complicit and allow these things to happen otherwise they are held equally responsible and accountable for those actions.  <br><br>So what do we do about Prop 8 -- Remove the word \"marriage\" from the equation as it is based on religious beliefs.  Leave civil unions to the courts of each state and provide recipients of civil unions the same rights as those applied to  ALL people under the laws of \"marriage\".   <br>********************************************************************<br>You had some other great conversation starters. \"I would like to see Christian women be silent and perfectly submissive to their husbands. I would like to see Christians not judge, lest they be judged. I would like to see you model your life according to 6th century beliefs, be one of many wives and put your child to death if he disobeys. I would like Christian men never to spill their seed...ever. I would like Christian women to forsake contraception and bring to term every pregnancy, included those that result from incest and rape. You know, ....a little consistency.\"<br><br>I think you are misinterpreting those scriptures :-) but we can save those for another time.  Great points though and I appreciate the conversation.", "is_last_child": false, "can_reply": true, "down_voted": false, "real_date": "2008-11-15_14:05:53", "killed": false, "user_key": "Val2", "has_been_anonymized": false, "edited": false, "author_is_moderator": false, "from_request_user": false, "votable": true, "date": "1 year ago", "approved": true, "num_replies": 2, "is_first_child": false, "email": "", "parent_post_id": 3786998, "depth": 4, "points": 0, "author_is_creator": false, "is_realtime": false}, "3781779": {"up_voted": false, "ip": "", "has_replies": true, "message": "In the Netherlands, marriage is a civil union. You must get married at City Hall, otherwise you're not legally married. Most folks skip a ceremony at church because it doesn't mean much, even for those who are religious.", "is_last_child": false, "can_reply": true, "down_voted": false, "real_date": "2008-11-14_17:52:18", "killed": false, "user_key": "CraigHickman", "has_been_anonymized": false, "edited": false, "author_is_moderator": false, "from_request_user": false, "votable": true, "date": "1 year ago", "approved": true, "num_replies": 16, "is_first_child": false, "email": "", "parent_post_id": 3781378, "depth": 1, "points": 0, "author_is_creator": false, "is_realtime": false}, "3791507": {"up_voted": false, "ip": "", "has_replies": false, "message": "I believe he was specifically talking about the way things are done in the Netherlands.  People there who want that connection to biblical sanctity and community traditions are allowed to have it , but that's not what legally defines marriage.", "is_last_child": false, "can_reply": true, "down_voted": false, "real_date": "2008-11-15_12:48:51", "killed": false, "user_key": "e325aa7ab71f70e5c9466498ae257acc", "has_been_anonymized": false, "edited": false, "author_is_moderator": false, "from_request_user": null, "votable": true, "date": "1 year ago", "approved": true, "num_replies": 0, "is_first_child": false, "email": "", "parent_post_id": 3786249, "depth": 3, "points": 0, "author_is_creator": false, "is_realtime": false}, "3785877": {"up_voted": false, "ip": "", "has_replies": true, "message": "<i><blockquote>...is that I'm finding myself interested in what might happen if we were to remove the word marriage -- and thus explicitly cede marriage to the religious side -- from the bones of contention. </blockquote></i><br><br>That's it right there...sometimes the worst think you can do to your opponent is give them exactly what they want.   I could be wrong, but the LG movement might not be thinking strategically enough....where \"marriage\" becomes conflated with \"acceptance\" and they end up fighting for something they don't even really want.     <br><br>Religion is fixing for a fight, and they think they have righteousness on their side.  How do you neutralize them?   Let them have marriage.", "is_last_child": false, "can_reply": true, "down_voted": false, "real_date": "2008-11-14_23:59:39", "killed": false, "user_key": "Sombody_took_my_username", "has_been_anonymized": false, "edited": false, "author_is_moderator": false, "from_request_user": false, "votable": true, "date": "1 year ago", "approved": true, "num_replies": 1, "is_first_child": false, "email": "", "parent_post_id": 3782285, "depth": 5, "points": 0, "author_is_creator": false, "is_realtime": false}, "3783532": {"up_voted": false, "ip": "", "has_replies": true, "message": "This a request from me personally, I do not speak for anyone here except myself but I am sick of this -- to my bones sick of it.<br><br>Could you PLEASE not continue the flawed practice of comparing same-gender marriage to interracial marriage?<br><br>PLEASE?!<br><br>It does more harm than good IMO.<br><br>If we can't find arguments that don't reply on analogy to the Civil Rights movement, if we can't find arguments that speak to the actual reality of the actual situation at hand, then ..... no. Just no.<br><br>Please.", "is_last_child": false, "can_reply": true, "down_voted": false, "real_date": "2008-11-14_20:20:52", "killed": false, "user_key": "4ec3c0272b87ba5c8ce3a9168cf4e78a", "has_been_anonymized": false, "edited": false, "author_is_moderator": false, "from_request_user": null, "votable": true, "date": "1 year ago", "approved": true, "num_replies": 14, "is_first_child": false, "email": "", "parent_post_id": 3783430, "depth": 1, "points": 0, "author_is_creator": false, "is_realtime": false}, "3784922": {"up_voted": false, "ip": "", "has_replies": true, "message": "We are in complete agreement on this bigassbelle. This is a civil rights and<br>a human rights issue.", "is_last_child": false, "can_reply": true, "down_voted": false, "real_date": "2008-11-14_22:21:45", "killed": false, "user_key": "JillTubman", "has_been_anonymized": false, "edited": false, "author_is_moderator": true, "from_request_user": false, "votable": true, "date": "1 year ago", "approved": true, "num_replies": 3, "is_first_child": false, "email": "", "parent_post_id": 3784868, "depth": 3, "points": 0, "author_is_creator": false, "is_realtime": false}, "3781662": {"up_voted": false, "ip": "", "has_replies": false, "message": "I mentioned that in an earlier post - Catholics can't marry non-Catholics in the Church; nor can they remarry in the Church after they've been divorced.  They can remarry legally, but not in that religious tradition.  Same goes for Jews/non-Jews where some rabbis won't do interfaith marriages.  They can get married legally.<br><br>There's no threat to religious decision-making on who to marry here.<br><br>That said, if gay marriage was federally legal, the churches would have to give benefits to employees as their marriages would be legal.  That said, I worked at a synagogue for a few years and am not Jewish.  If I was married, it would not have been blessed by a rabbi.  Within that religion, I would not have been able to marry because I had and have no intention of converting to Judaism.  They still would have had to cover my spouse under our family insurance plan though.", "is_last_child": true, "can_reply": true, "down_voted": false, "real_date": "2008-11-14_17:42:12", "killed": false, "user_key": "saralovesyou", "has_been_anonymized": false, "edited": false, "author_is_moderator": false, "from_request_user": false, "votable": true, "date": "1 year ago", "approved": true, "num_replies": 0, "is_first_child": true, "email": "", "parent_post_id": 3781512, "depth": 1, "points": 0, "author_is_creator": false, "is_realtime": false}, "3781919": {"up_voted": false, "ip": "", "has_replies": false, "message": "<i>pragmatist: work within the system and get gay marriage pushed through.</i><br><br>LOL, I disagree! (or at least I disagree through one lens).<br><br>it could also be:<br><br>pragmatist: cede marriage to the religious people and attend to the opportunities at hand with President-elect Obama's perspective on health insurance and non-discrimination<br><br>idealist: wax poetic about how marriage is THE thing and a movement toward same-gender marriage is the only real path toward equality, and idealistically ignore the dynamics of opposition and the political context that is now emerging with President-elect Obama.", "is_last_child": false, "can_reply": true, "down_voted": false, "real_date": "2008-11-14_18:05:32", "killed": false, "user_key": "4ec3c0272b87ba5c8ce3a9168cf4e78a", "has_been_anonymized": false, "edited": false, "author_is_moderator": false, "from_request_user": null, "votable": true, "date": "1 year ago", "approved": true, "num_replies": 0, "is_first_child": false, "email": "", "parent_post_id": 3781889, "depth": 7, "points": 0, "author_is_creator": false, "is_realtime": false}, "3784868": {"up_voted": false, "ip": "", "has_replies": true, "message": "I am <b>seriously</b> not arguing. I just don't understand how this is not a civil rights issue. If someone can explain it to me, I'm very open to understanding. I want to understand that view. <br><br>Civil rights: Rights ensuring things such as the protection of peoples' physical integrity; procedural fairness in law; protection from discrimination based on gender, religion, race, <b>sexual orientation</b>, etc; individual freedom of belief, speech, association, and the press; and political participation.", "is_last_child": false, "can_reply": true, "down_voted": false, "real_date": "2008-11-14_22:17:39", "killed": false, "user_key": "bigassbelle", "has_been_anonymized": false, "edited": false, "author_is_moderator": false, "from_request_user": false, "votable": true, "date": "1 year ago", "approved": true, "num_replies": 6, "is_first_child": false, "email": "", "parent_post_id": 3783528, "depth": 2, "points": 0, "author_is_creator": false, "is_realtime": false}, "3785734": {"up_voted": false, "ip": "", "has_replies": false, "message": "Point to note: the Civil Rights Act of 65 did NOT include sexual orientation. It has popularly been accepted by many, but it is not so regarding FEDERAL law. States laws vary.<br><br>It is legal to discriminate against GLBT people in employment in 32 states.<br><a href=\"http://www.hrc.org/about_us/state_laws.asp\" rel=\"nofollow\">http://www.hrc.org/about_us/state_laws.asp</a><br>Here's a list of issues with pdf maps of the US. Check out what your state says on these issues:<br>    *   Parenting Laws in the U.S.  pdf (172.86KB)<br><br>    * Statewide Employment Laws and Policies pdf (85.37KB)<br><br>    * Relationship Recognition in the U.S. pdf (79.11KB)<br><br>    * Statewide Marriage Prohibition Laws pdf (73.61KB)<br><br>    * State Hate Crimes Laws pdf (91.16KB)<br><br>    * Statewide School Laws and Policies pdf (85.13KB)", "is_last_child": false, "can_reply": true, "down_voted": false, "real_date": "2008-11-14_23:42:49", "killed": false, "user_key": "evita", "has_been_anonymized": false, "edited": false, "author_is_moderator": false, "from_request_user": false, "votable": true, "date": "1 year ago", "approved": true, "num_replies": 0, "is_first_child": false, "email": "", "parent_post_id": 3784868, "depth": 3, "points": 0, "author_is_creator": false, "is_realtime": false}, "3789287": {"up_voted": false, "ip": "", "has_replies": false, "message": "Some states that allow civil unions now won't allow benefits for domestic parnerships. Evil. I don't want to marry or civil union, but I can't get health ins. benefits from the institution that employs my parenting partner. Hence, I have  expensive and limited insurance that I can barely afford, while my parenting partner and our kids have great insurance from an institution that can but won't extend benefits to me, even though our family depends on all of our good health.<br><br>As I've said before, if we had a just system of taxation and healthcare, most people wouldn't even care about marriage. <br><br>I've been a Lesbian my entire adult life and never wanted to get married. Still don't. But I so resent living within a  system which doles out benefits to people based on their marital status.", "is_last_child": true, "can_reply": true, "down_voted": false, "real_date": "2008-11-15_08:37:23", "killed": false, "user_key": "313c8f108b43104806fa6f1472af3f83", "has_been_anonymized": false, "edited": false, "author_is_moderator": false, "from_request_user": null, "votable": true, "date": "1 year ago", "approved": true, "num_replies": 0, "is_first_child": false, "email": "", "parent_post_id": 3781762, "depth": 4, "points": 0, "author_is_creator": false, "is_realtime": false}, "3784348": {"up_voted": false, "ip": "", "has_replies": false, "message": "Not too vague for me, heartsandflowers. Though I have an allergy to that word \"meme\" for some reason but don't know why.<br><br><i>But it's the entire discourse of the argument. It's either about being a 'minority' or civil rights or the Loving case. And though I support it, it is somewhat confusing terminology and appropriates aspects of other social progress that isn't related. I wish there would be a new, concise meme presented wholly separate from the current positions and the legalise would not be presented as a catch-all scenario.</i><br><br>*nod nod nod*<br><br>IMO, it detracts from real clarity about the actual landscape we're in. That kind of clarity, for me, is probably my highest priority in life. Because the way I feel the world, action without as much clarity as possible doesn't respond to what is really going on and that makes everything distorted.<br><br>Now, some people and some groups are fine with largely ungrounded rhetoric. It can be useful in creating vague emotional associations that can under some circumstances affect people. Seems to me that much of the advertising industry is based on the promotion of blurry affective connections.<br><br>Myself, I find the CRM analogies to be inaccurate, dishonest and manipulative. And I find it disrespectful to the larger collective when social movement communication is about affective manipulation rather than dealing with each other in an honest and respectful manner.", "is_last_child": false, "can_reply": true, "down_voted": false, "real_date": "2008-11-14_21:34:49", "killed": false, "user_key": "4ec3c0272b87ba5c8ce3a9168cf4e78a", "has_been_anonymized": false, "edited": false, "author_is_moderator": false, "from_request_user": null, "votable": true, "date": "1 year ago", "approved": true, "num_replies": 0, "is_first_child": false, "email": "", "parent_post_id": 3783978, "depth": 3, "points": 0, "author_is_creator": false, "is_realtime": false}, "3786026": {"up_voted": false, "ip": "", "has_replies": false, "message": "<i>where \"marriage\" becomes conflated with \"acceptance\"...</i><br><br>This is hugely insightful and important IMO.<br><br>On one level, I feel like the conflation is about psychological needs, confusion of ego with movement goals, and acceptance of an idealized relationship per the culture's fictions. <br><br>On another level, it is like any situation in which one possible route to change becomes THE route to change in the movement's cultural assumptions. <br><br>In these situations, particular strategies, tactics or methods get confused with larger goals. This removes flexibility, creativity and grounded reality from the movement core IMO. <br><br>I think this conflation -- and the dynamics that feed it -- is a huge obstacle to doing what you (and I) are talking about: looking clear-eyed and strategically at the situation as it continues to emerge and change, and acting in the most truly effective way toward the actual goals.<br><br><i>That's it right there...sometimes the worst think you can do to your opponent is give them exactly what they want. ...[snip]<br><br>Religion is fixing for a fight, and they think they have righteousness on their side. How do you neutralize them? Let them have marriage.</i><br><br>Exactly.<br><br>And I should also say: I have learned so much from watching President-elect Obama's approach and actions. Some of what I learned is totally informing how I am understanding this situation (to give credit where credit is due).", "is_last_child": false, "can_reply": true, "down_voted": false, "real_date": "2008-11-15_00:20:29", "killed": false, "user_key": "4ec3c0272b87ba5c8ce3a9168cf4e78a", "has_been_anonymized": false, "edited": false, "author_is_moderator": false, "from_request_user": null, "votable": true, "date": "1 year ago", "approved": true, "num_replies": 0, "is_first_child": false, "email": "", "parent_post_id": 3785877, "depth": 6, "points": 0, "author_is_creator": false, "is_realtime": false}, "3786567": {"up_voted": false, "ip": "", "has_replies": true, "message": "I think she may be weary of discussing this an abstract way explaining historical contexts and trying to separate those that may oppose LGBT marriages with those that are supportive and separating the much needed conversation about intolerance from a lot of Black people with the racism within the Gay Right's movement and issues affecting LGBT PoC - which she actually has to live with - while we're \"just\" discussing it. <br><br>Perhaps similar to having to explain to a well meaning white person who identifies as liberal but has a lot of ignorance on white privilege vs. addressing a more hostile white supremacist. It gets tiring either way.  ????????", "is_last_child": false, "can_reply": true, "down_voted": false, "real_date": "2008-11-15_01:33:56", "killed": false, "user_key": "heartsandflowers", "has_been_anonymized": false, "edited": false, "author_is_moderator": false, "from_request_user": false, "votable": true, "date": "1 year ago", "approved": true, "num_replies": 3, "is_first_child": false, "email": "", "parent_post_id": 3786062, "depth": 7, "points": 0, "author_is_creator": false, "is_realtime": false}, "3792684": {"up_voted": false, "ip": "", "has_replies": true, "message": "<blockquote><i>How is this not a civil rights issue? As citizens of this nation, we should all enjoy the same rights. For one segment of society to be disallowed rights possessed by another . . . I'm not understanding what kind of issue this is if not civil rights?</i></blockquote><br><br>I'm with you here. One of the things that I find extremely annoying about the opponents of same-sex marriage, especially those in the African American community, is the way in which they take umbrage at the analogies that proponents of same-sex marriage use as an excuse or justification for denying the justness of their claims. It should not matter one whit whether or not the struggle for same-sex marriage bears any historical or logical relationship to the Civil Rights Movement.<br><br> This struggle should not be used as the lens through which all subsequent claims for civil and constitutional rights in this country are viewed. I don't place any stock in the efforts to draw a relationship between the Civil Rights Movement and the campaign waged by the gay and lesbian community for civil rights because the rightness of their cause does not, in my opinion, depend on this connection.", "is_last_child": false, "can_reply": true, "down_voted": false, "real_date": "2008-11-15_15:14:34", "killed": false, "user_key": "PTCruiser", "has_been_anonymized": false, "edited": false, "author_is_moderator": false, "from_request_user": false, "votable": true, "date": "1 year ago", "approved": true, "num_replies": 1, "is_first_child": false, "email": "", "parent_post_id": null, "depth": 0, "points": 1, "author_is_creator": false, "is_realtime": false}, "3785133": {"up_voted": false, "ip": "", "has_replies": true, "message": "I agree as well, however I am sympathetic to Michelle's point.  It's hard for me to put my finger on why it makes me uncomfortable to hear so much emphasis on this ... but I think the marriage equality folks would be well served by relying less on analogies to the struggle against race-based discrimination.", "is_last_child": false, "can_reply": true, "down_voted": false, "real_date": "2008-11-14_22:41:49", "killed": false, "user_key": "JonPincus", "has_been_anonymized": false, "edited": false, "author_is_moderator": false, "from_request_user": false, "votable": true, "date": "1 year ago", "approved": true, "num_replies": 1, "is_first_child": false, "email": "", "parent_post_id": 3784922, "depth": 4, "points": 0, "author_is_creator": false, "is_realtime": false}, "3784359": {"up_voted": false, "ip": "", "has_replies": true, "message": "belle, I'm not going to argue with you.<br><br>I asked. That's all I'm going to do.", "is_last_child": false, "can_reply": true, "down_voted": false, "real_date": "2008-11-14_21:35:37", "killed": false, "user_key": "4ec3c0272b87ba5c8ce3a9168cf4e78a", "has_been_anonymized": false, "edited": false, "author_is_moderator": false, "from_request_user": null, "votable": true, "date": "1 year ago", "approved": true, "num_replies": 9, "is_first_child": false, "email": "", "parent_post_id": 3784289, "depth": 3, "points": 0, "author_is_creator": false, "is_realtime": false}, "3785523": {"up_voted": false, "ip": "", "has_replies": false, "message": "Craig, that approach makes more sense and eliminates the need to have this conversation, even for religious people.<br><br>Not to mention saving a boatload of money on wedding ceremonial shyt like wedding dresses, and whatnot (yeah, I know, I'm cynical that way).", "is_last_child": false, "can_reply": true, "down_voted": false, "real_date": "2008-11-14_23:20:13", "killed": false, "user_key": "CPL", "has_been_anonymized": false, "edited": false, "author_is_moderator": true, "from_request_user": false, "votable": true, "date": "1 year ago", "approved": true, "num_replies": 0, "is_first_child": false, "email": "", "parent_post_id": 3781779, "depth": 2, "points": 1, "author_is_creator": false, "is_realtime": false}, "3789237": {"up_voted": false, "ip": "", "has_replies": false, "message": "True. A Rabbi friend of mine offered to marry my (same sex) partner and me because we were both Jews, but refused to marry my sister and her male fiance because they are interfaith. Ironic, when my sister actually wanted to get married (and did - but with a different Rabbi) but I had no interest in marriage.", "is_last_child": false, "can_reply": true, "down_voted": false, "real_date": "2008-11-15_08:26:56", "killed": false, "user_key": "313c8f108b43104806fa6f1472af3f83", "has_been_anonymized": false, "edited": false, "author_is_moderator": false, "from_request_user": null, "votable": true, "date": "1 year ago", "approved": true, "num_replies": 0, "is_first_child": false, "email": "", "parent_post_id": 3782537, "depth": 3, "points": 0, "author_is_creator": false, "is_realtime": false}, "3786249": {"up_voted": false, "ip": "", "has_replies": true, "message": "\"Most folks skip a ceremony at church because it doesn't mean much, even for those who are religious.\"<br><br>Not true.  There is a spiritual component associated with a ceremony at a church. It connects you to the religious aspect of the sanctity of marriage and all it stands for as it relates to the teachings in the bible.", "is_last_child": false, "can_reply": true, "down_voted": false, "real_date": "2008-11-15_00:51:12", "killed": false, "user_key": "Val2", "has_been_anonymized": false, "edited": false, "author_is_moderator": false, "from_request_user": false, "votable": true, "date": "1 year ago", "approved": true, "num_replies": 2, "is_first_child": false, "email": "", "parent_post_id": 3781779, "depth": 2, "points": 0, "author_is_creator": false, "is_realtime": false}, "3786439": {"up_voted": false, "ip": "", "has_replies": true, "message": "\"Now, the funny thing about religion, is that if anyone made Christians live according to the letter of their biblical law....their lives would quickly become unbearable. Yet, they want to make others who do not believe conform to that law.\"<br><br>I have been deliberately silent on this matter because I believe everyone has the right to make choices on how to live their lives and that God gives everyone freedom to choose.  You can either choose to abide by His laws or not to.  But you can't expect to go against His teachings and expect everyone who are believers in those teachings to approve of anything that is against those biblical teachings.  It just doesn't work that way.  <br><br>We all have choices.  The bible says \u2013 \u201cjudge not lest thee be judged.\u201d    <br>We can decide to live however we want with whomever we want but with those decisions we should acknowledge that ultimately we have to accept responsibility for those personal choices and that is between the individual and God.  So, it is not a matter of conformity.  You can't expect a religion to ignore its teachings and approve of what they believe is against the laws of Christ.", "is_last_child": false, "can_reply": true, "down_voted": false, "real_date": "2008-11-15_01:18:30", "killed": false, "user_key": "Val2", "has_been_anonymized": false, "edited": false, "author_is_moderator": false, "from_request_user": false, "votable": true, "date": "1 year ago", "approved": true, "num_replies": 4, "is_first_child": false, "email": "", "parent_post_id": 3784251, "depth": 2, "points": 1, "author_is_creator": false, "is_realtime": false}, "3784251": {"up_voted": false, "ip": "", "has_replies": true, "message": "I think the benefit of this is in how it makes me feel when I read it.   Suddenly, when I have a potential personal stake in the argument...it takes on a whole new meaning.   The challenge is, to have the empathy without the personal stake...I suppose.<br>;-)<br><br>Now, the funny thing about religion, is that if anyone made Christians live according to the letter of their biblical law....their lives would quickly become unbearable.   Yet, they want to make others who do not believe conform to that law.", "is_last_child": false, "can_reply": true, "down_voted": false, "real_date": "2008-11-14_21:23:35", "killed": false, "user_key": "Sombody_took_my_username", "has_been_anonymized": false, "edited": false, "author_is_moderator": false, "from_request_user": false, "votable": true, "date": "1 year ago", "approved": true, "num_replies": 7, "is_first_child": false, "email": "", "parent_post_id": 3783430, "depth": 1, "points": 0, "author_is_creator": false, "is_realtime": false}, "3786174": {"up_voted": false, "ip": "", "has_replies": false, "message": "I doubt this would be the case.  The religious institutions perform the ceremonial aspect of marriages, but its the states who issue the licenses (and makes them legal).   As long as the states issue the license and continue to allow marriages by judges or justices of the peace, the churches can do what they want, performing ceremonial weddings at their own discretion.   <br><br>If I were gay and my church didn't allow or perform same sex marriages, I  wouldn't bother pressing the issue--I'd just get the license done from the appropriate county office, and have my own ceremonial gathering wherever I could get it done.  That's the way it should be, IMO.  (Though if I really were gay, I should have probably found a more progressive church home in the first place.)", "is_last_child": true, "can_reply": true, "down_voted": false, "real_date": "2008-11-15_00:42:06", "killed": false, "user_key": "Nate_Wesley", "has_been_anonymized": false, "edited": false, "author_is_moderator": false, "from_request_user": false, "votable": true, "date": "1 year ago", "approved": true, "num_replies": 0, "is_first_child": false, "email": "", "parent_post_id": 3782475, "depth": 2, "points": 0, "author_is_creator": false, "is_realtime": false}, "3796544": {"up_voted": false, "ip": "", "has_replies": false, "message": "thanks for correcting the lens, but it needs even further correction. full disc:  i am not a proponent of gay marriage, the act of it, not simply the proposed legal construct.   regardless of my stance, though,  the issue here is not whether or not gays have the right to marry.  they have that.  <br><br>the real issue is universal legal recognition of the marriage.  if gay marriages have full recognition and treatment according to law, then I still won't support it in a moral sense, but most definitely in a law-of-the-land sense.  lobbying, and, in extreme cases, civil disobedience would be my only way of opposing with intent to change.  but neither of those approaches is Christian - that's where I come from on this.  A christian is not called on to protest gay marriage, or any other behavior in that way, but rather to preach and teach Jesus - His death and resurrection as our salvation.  All behaviour modification imperatives are delivered from one Christian to another, fully subject to the bible's teaching.<br><br>so the lens through which to view this is actually (1) who makes the determination, in this case the individual states and not the federal gov and (2) given the differences among states, whether or not the marriage is recognized.<br><br>But we can't frame this as a civil rights issue as marriage is not a right.  for example, if all gay unions were granted some status equal to marriage but under different nomenclature, e.g. civil union, then what would the argument become?<br><br>marriage is accorded different rights versus civil union.  that is the issue.  and President-elect Obama seems disposed to grant legal status equal to marriage while he has stated that he is not for marriage being defined as anything but a union between a man and a woman.  this is a genius move and a true separation of church and state that still allows for a moral statement:  marriage is man and woman, but all people must be treated equally.<br><br>You could argue that he's real close to splitting a hair, but that's the nature of his brand of compromise.<br><br>so I see the logic of using marriage as the proxy for all of those rights, but , the split hair is that marriage itself is not a right.  gays can marry.  all that is better said here.<br><br><a href=\"http://www.gaypatriot.net/2008/11/07/no-state-recognition-of-gay-marriage-is-not-a-fundamental-right/\" rel=\"nofollow\">http://www.gaypatriot.net/2008/11/07/no-state-r...</a> <br><br>so, given all that, it seems more like proponents of gay marriage are, in this case, not seeking legal remedy as much as moral approval, else marriage wouldn't mattter as much as what I'm actually allowed to do.<br><br>this democracy is built to handle the disagreement.  we will never all agree on things as we come from different value positions.  if we believe strongly enough in one thing, then we have been given the tools to either protect or protest the order of the day.", "is_last_child": true, "can_reply": true, "down_voted": false, "real_date": "2008-11-15_22:52:09", "killed": false, "user_key": "hustleandfloe", "has_been_anonymized": false, "edited": false, "author_is_moderator": false, "from_request_user": false, "votable": true, "date": "1 year ago", "approved": true, "num_replies": 0, "is_first_child": true, "email": "", "parent_post_id": 3792684, "depth": 1, "points": 0, "author_is_creator": false, "is_realtime": false}, "3782475": {"up_voted": false, "ip": "", "has_replies": true, "message": "I am not a lawyer, but church or clergy performance of marriages is contractual. There possibly could be, in my opinion, an issue if gay marriage is legalized and a ceremony is performed for one couple and not for another when everything else is considered equal. For example, both are members of the congregation, etc. It is an interesting dilemma and I think will probably come down to the courts. The same thing goes for providing benefits.<br><br>Premarital sex issues however, are not relevant as it is not against the law.", "is_last_child": false, "can_reply": true, "down_voted": false, "real_date": "2008-11-14_18:39:18", "killed": false, "user_key": "b9166c9e5fa6b956df5236136cff7860", "has_been_anonymized": false, "edited": false, "author_is_moderator": false, "from_request_user": null, "votable": true, "date": "1 year ago", "approved": true, "num_replies": 3, "is_first_child": true, "email": "", "parent_post_id": 3781990, "depth": 1, "points": 0, "author_is_creator": false, "is_realtime": false}, "3781700": {"up_voted": false, "ip": "", "has_replies": true, "message": "We don't have federal civil unions.  And those of us who have domestic partner benefits have to pay taxes on benefits, unlike married people.<br><br>What this means is that my job puts in $x for my health care and I put in $y.  When I added my girlfriend, I had to pay more, but the amount my job put in increased as well.  Unlike married people, that amount - it was about $400/month - was taxable income.  So I had to pay taxes on $400 more per month than someone exactly like me who was legally married.", "is_last_child": false, "can_reply": true, "down_voted": false, "real_date": "2008-11-14_17:45:31", "killed": false, "user_key": "saralovesyou", "has_been_anonymized": false, "edited": false, "author_is_moderator": false, "from_request_user": false, "votable": true, "date": "1 year ago", "approved": true, "num_replies": 6, "is_first_child": false, "email": "", "parent_post_id": 3781628, "depth": 2, "points": 0, "author_is_creator": false, "is_realtime": false}, "3781957": {"up_voted": false, "ip": "", "has_replies": true, "message": "<i>The system we have now privileges straight people, there's no need for them to change. Any change would be perceived as something being taken away.</i><br><br>Seems to me this would be true no matter what route a movement would take -- whether seeking marriage or civil unions.<br><br>I don't see how this is tied to one strategy/approach or the other.", "is_last_child": false, "can_reply": true, "down_voted": false, "real_date": "2008-11-14_18:07:53", "killed": false, "user_key": "4ec3c0272b87ba5c8ce3a9168cf4e78a", "has_been_anonymized": false, "edited": false, "author_is_moderator": false, "from_request_user": null, "votable": true, "date": "1 year ago", "approved": true, "num_replies": 1, "is_first_child": false, "email": "", "parent_post_id": 3781868, "depth": 4, "points": 0, "author_is_creator": false, "is_realtime": false}, "3781574": {"up_voted": false, "ip": "", "has_replies": true, "message": "Wow I never thought of that.  As a New Yorker, my siblings and cousins went to City Hall to  get married.  After the City Hall bit , a wedding ceremony/ reception was held.   Because of that I've always viewed the wedding ceremony/reception as something separate from the actual act of getting married.  No one in my family that I know of had a \"serious\" religious ceremony.  If there was a minister performing the vows, it was just for show.   <br><br>BTW is there a difference between a marriage and a civil union?", "is_last_child": false, "can_reply": true, "down_voted": false, "real_date": "2008-11-14_17:35:46", "killed": false, "user_key": "ecb8e53ad4dc175b15ab69340dd091f1", "has_been_anonymized": false, "edited": false, "author_is_moderator": false, "from_request_user": null, "votable": true, "date": "1 year ago", "approved": true, "num_replies": 9, "is_first_child": false, "email": "", "parent_post_id": null, "depth": 0, "points": 0, "author_is_creator": false, "is_realtime": false}, "3784289": {"up_voted": false, "ip": "", "has_replies": true, "message": "And it's flawed how? Interracial marriage was against the law. Gay marriage is against the law. Where does the comparison not work ? <br><br>How is this not a civil rights issue? As citizens of this nation, we should all enjoy the same rights. For one segment of society to be disallowed rights possessed by another . . . I'm not understanding what kind of issue this is if not civil rights?", "is_last_child": false, "can_reply": true, "down_voted": false, "real_date": "2008-11-14_21:28:42", "killed": false, "user_key": "bigassbelle", "has_been_anonymized": false, "edited": false, "author_is_moderator": false, "from_request_user": false, "votable": true, "date": "1 year ago", "approved": true, "num_replies": 11, "is_first_child": false, "email": "", "parent_post_id": 3783532, "depth": 2, "points": 0, "author_is_creator": false, "is_realtime": false}, "3786816": {"up_voted": false, "ip": "", "has_replies": false, "message": "<i>why you'd ask someone who might believe differently not to speak their mind</i><br><br>This is a way of seeing things that just doesn't make sense with how I most organically experience dialogue/communication.<br><br>But even though it doesn't make organic sense to me, I understand that it is totally coherent with how people communicate in this society.<br><br>It is fully my responsibility to understand this, IMO, and be wise in my actions given this disconnect. But that doesn't mean it's easy or that I do it all the time. Sometimes I don't fulfill this responsibility. And this may well be one of those times.<br><br>The other question that comes up for me reading this comment is to what extent my initial comment to belle has actually functioned as useful or not to the larger discussion. <br><br>It may be that it's so confusing that I don't have the energy to sufficiently explain what's obvious to me that it was not a particularly useful thing for me to do in the larger discussion. <br><br>If that's the situation, I apologize -- certainly there's plenty of other aspects of this issue to focus energy on without me introducing something that mainly functions to add confusion to the larger discussion, or otherwise adds more problems than usefulness.<br><br>It is certainly the case that I am trying to figure some things out about the marriage equality movement and its approaches for myself -- and that from this space I may be overly focused on my own learning and frustrations, and not focused enough on the larger group in a discussion like this, and not focused enough on how I might contribute to it in  the most useful way possible.", "is_last_child": false, "can_reply": true, "down_voted": false, "real_date": "2008-11-15_02:08:53", "killed": false, "user_key": "4ec3c0272b87ba5c8ce3a9168cf4e78a", "has_been_anonymized": false, "edited": false, "author_is_moderator": false, "from_request_user": null, "votable": true, "date": "1 year ago", "approved": true, "num_replies": 0, "is_first_child": false, "email": "", "parent_post_id": 3786062, "depth": 7, "points": 0, "author_is_creator": false, "is_realtime": false}, "3781835": {"up_voted": false, "ip": "", "has_replies": true, "message": "But here in the United States, from what I am seeeing people are -- or at least claim to be -- very attached to religious marriage.<br><br>To the point where opposition to same-gender unions is often couched in these religious terms.<br><br>From this dynamic, I assume that religious marriage either 1) really means a lot to people or 2) is a smokescreen they're using to bulls**t because they don't have another argument that would really hold up to scrutiny outside of the extremist circles.", "is_last_child": false, "can_reply": true, "down_voted": false, "real_date": "2008-11-14_17:56:48", "killed": false, "user_key": "4ec3c0272b87ba5c8ce3a9168cf4e78a", "has_been_anonymized": false, "edited": false, "author_is_moderator": false, "from_request_user": null, "votable": true, "date": "1 year ago", "approved": true, "num_replies": 8, "is_first_child": false, "email": "", "parent_post_id": 3781779, "depth": 2, "points": 0, "author_is_creator": false, "is_realtime": false}, "3784909": {"up_voted": false, "ip": "", "has_replies": false, "message": "Must you villify Christians on so many posts with such a broad stroke? I read your posts and know that you are very intelligent. Wouldn't you/aren't you offended when Christians malign the character of atheists and agnostics with that same brush? <br><br>Perhaps, you should use the logic of bigabelle (basically put the shoe on the other foot) when considering Christians and the monolithic ideas which you prescribe to this group, a group of folks who are flawed like all others. Many who are attempting to be their best selves. It seems to me, if you dismiss the logic/ moralty/possibility for true and good motivation of all Christians then it invalidates your argument that the same behavior when espoused by Christians is ignorant.", "is_last_child": false, "can_reply": true, "down_voted": false, "real_date": "2008-11-14_22:20:59", "killed": false, "user_key": "JJai", "has_been_anonymized": false, "edited": false, "author_is_moderator": false, "from_request_user": false, "votable": true, "date": "1 year ago", "approved": true, "num_replies": 0, "is_first_child": false, "email": "", "parent_post_id": 3784251, "depth": 2, "points": 0, "author_is_creator": false, "is_realtime": false}, "3786062": {"up_voted": false, "ip": "", "has_replies": true, "message": "But as you said Michelle, it's obvious to you.  I'm not sure everyone agrees with your stance, which is why its confusing as to why you'd ask someone who might believe differently not to speak their mind.", "is_last_child": false, "can_reply": true, "down_voted": false, "real_date": "2008-11-15_00:25:26", "killed": false, "user_key": "Nate_Wesley", "has_been_anonymized": false, "edited": false, "author_is_moderator": false, "from_request_user": false, "votable": true, "date": "1 year ago", "approved": true, "num_replies": 6, "is_first_child": false, "email": "", "parent_post_id": 3785214, "depth": 6, "points": 0, "author_is_creator": false, "is_realtime": false}, "3782537": {"up_voted": false, "ip": "", "has_replies": true, "message": "Intermarriage between Jew and gentile is legal, but synagogues aren't legally obliged to perform them--even if the gentile is a dues-paying member of teh congregation.", "is_last_child": false, "can_reply": true, "down_voted": false, "real_date": "2008-11-14_18:44:54", "killed": false, "user_key": "dc645063c070cbb117a5c713edc94669", "has_been_anonymized": false, "edited": false, "author_is_moderator": false, "from_request_user": null, "votable": true, "date": "1 year ago", "approved": true, "num_replies": 1, "is_first_child": false, "email": "", "parent_post_id": 3782475, "depth": 2, "points": 0, "author_is_creator": false, "is_realtime": false}, "3786451": {"up_voted": false, "ip": "", "has_replies": false, "message": "Interracial marriages (anti-miscegenation laws) were written into the law specifically after slavery. And after Black people were deemed as 'whole' people and not 3/5s. It was part of the State's rights argument and had to be settled federally like so many laws.  Gay marriage is not written as being against the law. It is written as not being a legalized definition of marriage. <br><br>Civil Rights was about setting aside the backlash from Emancipation and Jim Crow for Black people, though it wasn't able to secure a lot of the original promises like the 40 aces and a mule. <br><br>Adam Clayton Powell tried to destroy MLK politically by exposing Baynard Rustin, architect of the March on Washington because he was gay. Most people don't even know of his contribution or his orientation and he removed himself for the good of the work. <br><br>Clearly MLK didn't have a problem with it but it would have undermined the efforts at getting the Civil Rights Act passed on top of the resistance from LBJ and of course all the violence. Then MLK was murdered. If things hadn't been shrouded in this cloud of secrecy perhaps some inroads could have been made a long time ago, but sometimes you have fight one battle at a time.  <br><br>A lot of Black people rightfully bristle at the co-opting of a movement for racial equality that was borne out of the Black church were people used (their idea of) biblical principles about fighting for their freedom from oppression. <br><br>Since the larger Gay movement deploys a majority of white, usually male spokespeople claiming to be oppressed in the same way, it rings hollow and insincere. Further they are the ones usually running the organizations as well. So there is a glaring lack of inclusion and outreach amongst LGBT PoC. <br><br>Also this can be argued as a class issue since less financially secure LGBT people have more immediate concerns like jobs, housing, medical expenses, etc and the official agenda is focused solely on marriage as a panacea for inequality.<br><br>I think I covered all the bases, but someone else feel free to chime in.", "is_last_child": false, "can_reply": true, "down_voted": false, "real_date": "2008-11-15_01:19:31", "killed": false, "user_key": "heartsandflowers", "has_been_anonymized": false, "edited": false, "author_is_moderator": false, "from_request_user": false, "votable": true, "date": "1 year ago", "approved": true, "num_replies": 0, "is_first_child": false, "email": "", "parent_post_id": 3784289, "depth": 3, "points": 0, "author_is_creator": false, "is_realtime": false}, "3793108": {"up_voted": false, "ip": "", "has_replies": false, "message": "It's ok, I just wanted to be upfront/clear on my end as a matter of my own responsibility, heartsandflowers.", "is_last_child": false, "can_reply": true, "down_voted": false, "real_date": "2008-11-15_16:07:57", "killed": false, "user_key": "4ec3c0272b87ba5c8ce3a9168cf4e78a", "has_been_anonymized": false, "edited": false, "author_is_moderator": false, "from_request_user": null, "votable": true, "date": "1 year ago", "approved": true, "num_replies": 0, "is_first_child": false, "email": "", "parent_post_id": 3791849, "depth": 10, "points": 0, "author_is_creator": false, "is_realtime": false}, "3781589": {"up_voted": false, "ip": "", "has_replies": true, "message": "I agree with you on this, but there's no precedent for a dominant group giving up their rights.  And that's what this would be.  It would force straight people to give up the rights that they have, rather than just roll us into what exists, and I don't think that would happen in a million years.", "is_last_child": false, "can_reply": true, "down_voted": false, "real_date": "2008-11-14_17:36:56", "killed": false, "user_key": "saralovesyou", "has_been_anonymized": false, "edited": false, "author_is_moderator": false, "from_request_user": false, "votable": true, "date": "1 year ago", "approved": true, "num_replies": 4, "is_first_child": true, "email": "", "parent_post_id": 3781378, "depth": 1, "points": 0, "author_is_creator": false, "is_realtime": false}, "3781718": {"up_voted": false, "ip": "", "has_replies": true, "message": "I don't understand, saraloves you.<br><br>I don't see how it would possibly force straight people to \"give up their rights.\" <br><br>It might force some Christian people/groups to re-examine any assumptions they have about the United States being a Christian theocracy. But my sense is most Christians aren't extreme like that.<br><br>But how would this take away rights of any straight people?<br><br>Also, re: this part of what you said: <i>It would force straight people to give up the rights that they have, rather than just roll us into what exists, and I don't think that would happen in a million years.</i><br><br>I think it's wrong to assume that it will be easier for gay couples to get marriage than to shift the landscape as I suggest. I think that's actually a fallacy.<br><br>What I see is this: the fight goes on and on and on about marriage. The \"marriage is a man and a woman\" people win some and lose some, as do the advocates of same-gender marriage. No victory is ever really secure because it's basically a tug of war. Even a Supreme Court decision is open to revision and ongoing struggle (see: Roe v Wade).<br><br>What I also see is this: this country has just elected a president who simultaneously believes that marriage is between a man and a woman, AND that there should not be discrimination against gay people. <br><br>He is on both sides and neither side.<br><br>Could we have some new sides?", "is_last_child": false, "can_reply": true, "down_voted": false, "real_date": "2008-11-14_17:46:48", "killed": false, "user_key": "4ec3c0272b87ba5c8ce3a9168cf4e78a", "has_been_anonymized": false, "edited": false, "author_is_moderator": false, "from_request_user": null, "votable": true, "date": "1 year ago", "approved": true, "num_replies": 3, "is_first_child": false, "email": "", "parent_post_id": 3781589, "depth": 2, "points": 0, "author_is_creator": false, "is_realtime": false}, "3786967": {"up_voted": false, "ip": "", "has_replies": true, "message": "<i>issues affecting LGBT PoC - which she actually has to live with - while we're \"just\" discussing it. </i><br><br>No -- I'm white.", "is_last_child": false, "can_reply": true, "down_voted": false, "real_date": "2008-11-15_02:39:15", "killed": false, "user_key": "4ec3c0272b87ba5c8ce3a9168cf4e78a", "has_been_anonymized": false, "edited": false, "author_is_moderator": false, "from_request_user": null, "votable": true, "date": "1 year ago", "approved": true, "num_replies": 2, "is_first_child": false, "email": "", "parent_post_id": 3786567, "depth": 8, "points": 0, "author_is_creator": false, "is_realtime": false}, "3786328": {"up_voted": false, "ip": "", "has_replies": false, "message": "Good point.<br><br>And, the expectation implicit in the appeal,  seems to be that they would acquiesce....why on earth would they?", "is_last_child": false, "can_reply": true, "down_voted": false, "real_date": "2008-11-15_00:59:21", "killed": false, "user_key": "Sombody_took_my_username", "has_been_anonymized": false, "edited": false, "author_is_moderator": false, "from_request_user": false, "votable": true, "date": "1 year ago", "approved": true, "num_replies": 0, "is_first_child": false, "email": "", "parent_post_id": 3786062, "depth": 7, "points": 0, "author_is_creator": false, "is_realtime": false}, "3781978": {"up_voted": false, "ip": "", "has_replies": false, "message": "postscript to the above: I myself would suggest that any actual changes would explicitly grandfather in people who are already married by the state and give them all the rights of civil unions. They would not have to change.", "is_last_child": false, "can_reply": true, "down_voted": false, "real_date": "2008-11-14_18:09:52", "killed": false, "user_key": "4ec3c0272b87ba5c8ce3a9168cf4e78a", "has_been_anonymized": false, "edited": false, "author_is_moderator": false, "from_request_user": null, "votable": true, "date": "1 year ago", "approved": true, "num_replies": 0, "is_first_child": false, "email": "", "parent_post_id": 3781957, "depth": 5, "points": 0, "author_is_creator": false, "is_realtime": false}, "3783978": {"up_voted": false, "ip": "", "has_replies": true, "message": "You're right Michelle. But it's the entire discourse of the argument. It's either about being a 'minority' or civil rights or the Loving case. And though I support it, it is somewhat confusing terminology and appropriates aspects of other social progress that isn't related. I wish there would be a new, concise meme presented wholly separate from the current positions and the legalise would not be presented as a catch-all scenario. <br><br>Was that too vague?", "is_last_child": false, "can_reply": true, "down_voted": false, "real_date": "2008-11-14_20:50:26", "killed": false, "user_key": "heartsandflowers", "has_been_anonymized": false, "edited": false, "author_is_moderator": false, "from_request_user": false, "votable": true, "date": "1 year ago", "approved": true, "num_replies": 1, "is_first_child": false, "email": "", "parent_post_id": 3783532, "depth": 2, "points": 0, "author_is_creator": false, "is_realtime": false}, "7878236": {"up_voted": false, "ip": "", "has_replies": false, "message": "Gay marriages are ok  as long as they don't interfere with the idea of adopting and raising a children. Anyway, I also have a question: is it true that at a certain point it might <a rel=\"follow\" href=\"http://www.articlesnatch.com/Article/Saving-Your-Marriage-Need-Not-Be-a-Painful-Trip-Through-the-Past/524960\" rel=\"nofollow\">stop divorce</a>?", "is_last_child": false, "can_reply": true, "down_voted": false, "real_date": "2009-04-05_04:17:11", "killed": false, "user_key": "joeAnne", "has_been_anonymized": false, "edited": false, "author_is_moderator": false, "from_request_user": false, "votable": true, "date": "8 months ago", "approved": true, "num_replies": 0, "is_first_child": false, "email": "", "parent_post_id": null, "depth": 0, "points": 0, "author_is_creator": false, "is_realtime": false}, "3792605": {"up_voted": false, "ip": "", "has_replies": false, "message": "Val, what I said about Christians in the Netherlands is true.", "is_last_child": true, "can_reply": true, "down_voted": false, "real_date": "2008-11-15_15:05:26", "killed": false, "user_key": "CraigHickman", "has_been_anonymized": false, "edited": false, "author_is_moderator": false, "from_request_user": false, "votable": true, "date": "1 year ago", "approved": true, "num_replies": 0, "is_first_child": false, "email": "", "parent_post_id": 3786249, "depth": 3, "points": 0, "author_is_creator": false, "is_realtime": false}, "3781854": {"up_voted": false, "ip": "", "has_replies": true, "message": "I agree with you.   It's hard, because there are multiple layers to the issue.  On the one hand, you have the huge social inequity of privilege for married couples period - leaving out single people and GLBT people completely.  On the other hand, you have what I see has another social inequity in who has access to the benefits that exist.<br><br>Places like <a href=\"http://beyondmarriage.org/\" rel=\"nofollow\">http://beyondmarriage.org/</a> and <a href=\"http://www.unmarried.org/\" rel=\"nofollow\">http://www.unmarried.org/</a> seem to address the issue you're raising - but I'll admit to a level of ignorance as to how they're working towards solutions/who they're representing.<br><br>I struggle with the same questions you're talking about.  It's the conflict in me between the pragmatist (working within the system) and the idealist (recreating parts of our world).<br><br>Right now I don't know how to address all of the questions you bring up, and that come up in my own head.  I think it's a good conversation to have, and continue, but I still think that there's a place for both tracks.", "is_last_child": false, "can_reply": true, "down_voted": false, "real_date": "2008-11-14_17:58:18", "killed": false, "user_key": "saralovesyou", "has_been_anonymized": false, "edited": false, "author_is_moderator": false, "from_request_user": false, "votable": true, "date": "1 year ago", "approved": true, "num_replies": 3, "is_first_child": false, "email": "", "parent_post_id": 3781762, "depth": 4, "points": 0, "author_is_creator": false, "is_realtime": false}, "3781600": {"up_voted": false, "ip": "", "has_replies": false, "message": "So that you know,  no one in my family (aunts uncle, parents cousin, siblings and myself) was ever married in a church.", "is_last_child": false, "can_reply": true, "down_voted": false, "real_date": "2008-11-14_17:38:17", "killed": false, "user_key": "ecb8e53ad4dc175b15ab69340dd091f1", "has_been_anonymized": false, "edited": false, "author_is_moderator": false, "from_request_user": null, "votable": true, "date": "1 year ago", "approved": true, "num_replies": 0, "is_first_child": true, "email": "", "parent_post_id": 3781574, "depth": 1, "points": 0, "author_is_creator": false, "is_realtime": false}, "3783521": {"up_voted": false, "ip": "", "has_replies": false, "message": "When I first starting suggesting this concept of truly separating church and state, people looked at me like I was crazy. I think that's where we should be headed. This actually fits everyone's needs in a way. Everyone should have the same right to form a consensual legal union with another adult of their choice under the law. If you want to celebrate that religiously in addition to the legalities, you have to find a house of worship that shares your values which is optional.", "is_last_child": false, "can_reply": true, "down_voted": false, "real_date": "2008-11-14_20:19:13", "killed": false, "user_key": "JillTubman", "has_been_anonymized": false, "edited": false, "author_is_moderator": true, "from_request_user": false, "votable": true, "date": "1 year ago", "approved": true, "num_replies": 0, "is_first_child": false, "email": "", "parent_post_id": 3781779, "depth": 2, "points": 1, "author_is_creator": false, "is_realtime": false}, "3781986": {"up_voted": false, "ip": "", "has_replies": true, "message": "Yes. I was agreeing with you by pointing out a nation that does it as you suggest. A nation where anyone can legally marry anyone outside of their immediate family.", "is_last_child": false, "can_reply": true, "down_voted": false, "real_date": "2008-11-14_18:10:34", "killed": false, "user_key": "CraigHickman", "has_been_anonymized": false, "edited": false, "author_is_moderator": false, "from_request_user": false, "votable": true, "date": "1 year ago", "approved": true, "num_replies": 6, "is_first_child": false, "email": "", "parent_post_id": 3781835, "depth": 3, "points": 0, "author_is_creator": false, "is_realtime": false}, "3781475": {"up_voted": false, "ip": "", "has_replies": false, "message": "No church can be forced to marry someone.  The laws wouldn't force churches to marry anyone.<br><br>About the federal funding - this is interesting, because churches that receive federal funds are not allowed to discriminate in the activities that they receive federal funds then.  Thus in the day care example, you can't fire someone because they are a lesbian if they are a daycare employee.  However, if a church finds out their deacon is gay, they can fire the deacon.  That's because the federal funds aren't going to their \"religious\" activity, the federal funds are going to the daycare.<br><br>I am not sure about the insurance question.", "is_last_child": false, "can_reply": true, "down_voted": false, "real_date": "2008-11-14_17:27:09", "killed": false, "user_key": "83e8906ef713ea0aefaf558ef78c5249", "has_been_anonymized": false, "edited": false, "author_is_moderator": false, "from_request_user": null, "votable": true, "date": "1 year ago", "approved": true, "num_replies": 0, "is_first_child": false, "email": "", "parent_post_id": null, "depth": 0, "points": 0, "author_is_creator": false, "is_realtime": false}, "3781990": {"up_voted": false, "ip": "", "has_replies": true, "message": "Legalized gay marriage doesn't affect who churches marry. Churches are not required to perform marriages and many already have rules and restrictions for who they will marry (membership in the church for X period of time, premarital counseling, no previous marriages, no cohabitation, etc).<br><br>As far as benefits, it depends on how the laws are written. But keep in mind, do churches that are against premarital sex provide benefits that cover children of unwed parents? Should they?", "is_last_child": false, "can_reply": true, "down_voted": false, "real_date": "2008-11-14_18:11:08", "killed": false, "user_key": "c3c395eb0d97ac57332a0e25ad11b231", "has_been_anonymized": false, "edited": false, "author_is_moderator": false, "from_request_user": null, "votable": true, "date": "1 year ago", "approved": true, "num_replies": 4, "is_first_child": false, "email": "", "parent_post_id": null, "depth": 0, "points": 0, "author_is_creator": false, "is_realtime": false}, "3781762": {"up_voted": false, "ip": "", "has_replies": true, "message": "saralovesyou, I have the same situation with health insurance as I am on my girlfriend's insurance (her specific workplace offers domestic partner insurance benefits).<br><br>personally, I don't feel that access to health insurance should have anything to do with whether or not I am in a relationship with someone and or whether one or the other partner is privileged enough to have a job with health benefits.<br><br>I don't think I have some special right to better health care access than a non-coupled person should have. What do you think about that?<br><br>I would like to see these kinds of questions being raised.", "is_last_child": false, "can_reply": true, "down_voted": false, "real_date": "2008-11-14_17:50:21", "killed": false, "user_key": "4ec3c0272b87ba5c8ce3a9168cf4e78a", "has_been_anonymized": false, "edited": false, "author_is_moderator": false, "from_request_user": null, "votable": true, "date": "1 year ago", "approved": true, "num_replies": 5, "is_first_child": false, "email": "", "parent_post_id": 3781700, "depth": 3, "points": 0, "author_is_creator": false, "is_realtime": false}, "3784039": {"up_voted": false, "ip": "", "has_replies": true, "message": "Their gov't practices are far superior in many aspects to what we have here in the US, esp with regards to health care, paid time off, and child care.", "is_last_child": false, "can_reply": true, "down_voted": false, "real_date": "2008-11-14_20:57:04", "killed": false, "user_key": "heartsandflowers", "has_been_anonymized": false, "edited": false, "author_is_moderator": false, "from_request_user": false, "votable": true, "date": "1 year ago", "approved": true, "num_replies": 1, "is_first_child": false, "email": "", "parent_post_id": 3781779, "depth": 2, "points": 0, "author_is_creator": false, "is_realtime": false}, "3783528": {"up_voted": false, "ip": "", "has_replies": true, "message": "I hear ya. I am not gay. But I am eager for equal rights for all.", "is_last_child": false, "can_reply": true, "down_voted": false, "real_date": "2008-11-14_20:20:14", "killed": false, "user_key": "JillTubman", "has_been_anonymized": false, "edited": false, "author_is_moderator": true, "from_request_user": false, "votable": true, "date": "1 year ago", "approved": true, "num_replies": 7, "is_first_child": true, "email": "", "parent_post_id": 3783430, "depth": 1, "points": 0, "author_is_creator": false, "is_realtime": false}, "3791849": {"up_voted": false, "ip": "", "has_replies": true, "message": "Ok I should have included all LGBT but I'm just throwing out my opinions rather quickly here.", "is_last_child": false, "can_reply": true, "down_voted": false, "real_date": "2008-11-15_13:27:44", "killed": false, "user_key": "heartsandflowers", "has_been_anonymized": false, "edited": false, "author_is_moderator": false, "from_request_user": false, "votable": true, "date": "1 year ago", "approved": true, "num_replies": 1, "is_first_child": false, "email": "", "parent_post_id": 3786967, "depth": 9, "points": 0, "author_is_creator": false, "is_realtime": false}, "3785645": {"up_voted": false, "ip": "", "has_replies": false, "message": "Answers:<br><br>1. Legal ramifications of gay marriage from San Francisco Chronicle<br><a href=\"http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2008/06/05/BU061139DK.DTL\" rel=\"nofollow\">http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/...</a><br><br><br>2. Can pastors be arrested and Churches lose their taxes exempt status, no? All states are different though. In California, no.<br><br><br><br>\" Regarding the first two points, the majority opinion given by the California Supreme Court ruling on the constitutional right of same sex marriage clearly states that the tax exempt status of churches are protected and that church leaders cannot be sued for refusal to marry same-sex couples. Here is the language used regarding those protections:<br><br><br>\"Finally, affording same-sex couples the opportunity to obtain the<br>designation of marriage will not impinge upon the religious freedom of any<br>religious organization, official, or any other person; no religion will be required to change its religious policies or practices with regard to same-sex couples, and no religious officiant will be required to solemnize a marriage in contravention of his or her religious beliefs. (Cal. Const., art. I, \u00a7 4.)72\"<br><br><br>Here's the link to the actual State Supreme Court Decision: (The quoted citation can be found on page 117 of the PDF).<br><a href=\"http://www.hrcbackstory.org/files/CA-SupremeCtRuling.pdf\" rel=\"nofollow\">http://www.hrcbackstory.org/files/CA-SupremeCtR...</a><br><br>Given the clear protections outlined in the court ruling, the alarm raised over tax exemptions for churches and lawsuits against church leaders seems a bit unnecessary and perhaps even disingenuous.\"<br><br>Blog aritcle for above text and more debunking the falsehoods perpetuated by hate here:<br><a href=\"http://blogs.venturacountystar.com/dennert/archives/2008/10/on-california-p.html\" rel=\"nofollow\">http://blogs.venturacountystar.com/dennert/arch...</a>  <br><br>There was a priest who was arrested for refusing to marry a same sex couple- IN SWEDEN, not in the US.  Thee truly misinformed will site this example sans the detail about where.", "is_last_child": false, "can_reply": true, "down_voted": false, "real_date": "2008-11-14_23:32:41", "killed": false, "user_key": "evita", "has_been_anonymized": false, "edited": false, "author_is_moderator": false, "from_request_user": false, "votable": true, "date": "1 year ago", "approved": true, "num_replies": 0, "is_first_child": false, "email": "", "parent_post_id": null, "depth": 0, "points": 0, "author_is_creator": false, "is_realtime": false}, "3781867": {"up_voted": false, "ip": "", "has_replies": true, "message": "<i>pragmatist (working within the system) and the idealist (recreating parts of our world).</i><br><br>But: Which side is which in this situation?", "is_last_child": false, "can_reply": true, "down_voted": false, "real_date": "2008-11-14_18:00:19", "killed": false, "user_key": "4ec3c0272b87ba5c8ce3a9168cf4e78a", "has_been_anonymized": false, "edited": false, "author_is_moderator": false, "from_request_user": null, "votable": true, "date": "1 year ago", "approved": true, "num_replies": 2, "is_first_child": false, "email": "", "parent_post_id": 3781854, "depth": 5, "points": 0, "author_is_creator": false, "is_realtime": false}, "3781868": {"up_voted": false, "ip": "", "has_replies": true, "message": "When I say that straight people don't want to give up their rights, I'm speaking to a perception I think exists, not what I think.  Maybe it's better framed in privilege.  The system we have now privileges straight people, there's no need for them to change.  Any change would be perceived as something being taken away.<br><br>Maybe I'm wrong.  But that's what I think it would play out as.", "is_last_child": false, "can_reply": true, "down_voted": false, "real_date": "2008-11-14_18:00:28", "killed": false, "user_key": "saralovesyou", "has_been_anonymized": false, "edited": false, "author_is_moderator": false, "from_request_user": false, "votable": true, "date": "1 year ago", "approved": true, "num_replies": 2, "is_first_child": false, "email": "", "parent_post_id": 3781718, "depth": 3, "points": 0, "author_is_creator": false, "is_realtime": false}, "3786093": {"up_voted": false, "ip": "", "has_replies": false, "message": "I agree with you, BAB. The fight for basic civil rights did not begin and will not solely be solved by the [capital letter] Civil Rights Movement that involved the end to discrimination amongst African-Americans.  We are severely limiting the conceptual value of basic civil rights is by thinking of them as 'what black people got beat for in the '50-70s'.  It is not even a struggle that is limited to the United States.", "is_last_child": false, "can_reply": true, "down_voted": false, "real_date": "2008-11-15_00:30:52", "killed": false, "user_key": "Nate_Wesley", "has_been_anonymized": false, "edited": false, "author_is_moderator": false, "from_request_user": false, "votable": true, "date": "1 year ago", "approved": true, "num_replies": 0, "is_first_child": false, "email": "", "parent_post_id": 3784868, "depth": 3, "points": 1, "author_is_creator": false, "is_realtime": false}, "3781486": {"up_voted": false, "ip": "", "has_replies": false, "message": "The only entities required to provide benefits to same-sex couples are government institutions in a state that require it or private insurers who provide benefits to those in states that require it.<br><br>As far as I'm aware.", "is_last_child": false, "can_reply": true, "down_voted": false, "real_date": "2008-11-14_17:28:23", "killed": false, "user_key": "CraigHickman", "has_been_anonymized": false, "edited": false, "author_is_moderator": false, "from_request_user": false, "votable": true, "date": "1 year ago", "approved": true, "num_replies": 0, "is_first_child": false, "email": "", "parent_post_id": null, "depth": 0, "points": 0, "author_is_creator": false, "is_realtime": false}, "3791602": {"up_voted": false, "ip": "", "has_replies": false, "message": "There's a twofold problem that I see with ceding marriage completely.  There are gay people who are part of open-minded communities of faith who would like to have religious ceremonies, which are banned under the prop 8 model.  On the one hand, there's the lack of equal protection.  On the other, there's the favoring of one religious viewpoint over another.  Either it's wrong by the 14th amandment, or it's wrong by the 1st.", "is_last_child": false, "can_reply": true, "down_voted": false, "real_date": "2008-11-15_12:59:34", "killed": false, "user_key": "e325aa7ab71f70e5c9466498ae257acc", "has_been_anonymized": false, "edited": false, "author_is_moderator": false, "from_request_user": null, "votable": true, "date": "1 year ago", "approved": true, "num_replies": 0, "is_first_child": false, "email": "", "parent_post_id": 3782285, "depth": 5, "points": 0, "author_is_creator": false, "is_realtime": false}, "3785587": {"up_voted": false, "ip": "", "has_replies": false, "message": "Michelle, I've been to too many religious marriage ceremonies where the bride and groom, while pledging \"til death us do part\" and simultaneously thinking \"If this shyt don't work out, we can always get a divorce\" so, if there's really a religious value to marriage, one would think the couple wouldn't be thinking about \"if this marriage doesn't work out...\" while pledging to stay with their spouse until death.<br><br>Therefore, my answer is #2 - a smokescreen to bullshyt because they that are arguing against gay marriage cannot come up with a logical, reasoned argument as to why they have to legislate who consenting adults can be with in loving partnership, outside the extremist circles.  And I say that as a Christian who's been abused by the Church because of trying to live under dogmatic application of Biblical scripture which damned near killed me in spirit and in truth.  People use religion to avoid having hard discussions like this, and to avoid doing the hard work of unconditional acceptance of one another.", "is_last_child": false, "can_reply": true, "down_voted": false, "real_date": "2008-11-14_23:25:48", "killed": false, "user_key": "CPL", "has_been_anonymized": false, "edited": false, "author_is_moderator": true, "from_request_user": false, "votable": true, "date": "1 year ago", "approved": true, "num_replies": 0, "is_first_child": false, "email": "", "parent_post_id": 3781835, "depth": 3, "points": 0, "author_is_creator": false, "is_realtime": false}, "3786998": {"up_voted": false, "ip": "", "has_replies": true, "message": "What I expect of believers is at minimum, to be consistent.    I can't expect rationality, because fundamentally, the belief system is irrational.<br><br>For example, you say that your god \"gives everyone freedom to choose\", and \"..<b>we have to accept responsibility</b> for those personal choices and that is <b>between the individual and God</b>.\"   Here, you seem to suggest that your approval is irrelevant...it is only the approval of your god that matters.   Logic would dictate, that if you truly believe what you say, you would not intervene in the making of those choices  by proselytizing or by ballot.   You would <i>indeed</i> allow your god to deal with, or approve of those choices as it felt fit.<br><br>However, you go on to say that I can't expect that believers will approve of things that go against biblical teachings.   Somewhere along the line, you switched your belief from <i>only your god's approval counts</i> to your approval counts and should be acted upon.    So I ask, who is the god here?    And, do you really believe what you say you do, and if so - how strongly do you believe on a scale from one to ten?<br><br>Then you say \"judge not lest thee be judged.\" - switching back to <i>only your god's approval counts</i>.<br><br>You go on to say that I can't expect religion to ignore it's teachings; however, it seems you have ignored your own teaching between paragraphs one and three.   I am looking for consistency, at minimum.<br><br>I would like to see Christians live out their own teachings in their own lives.   In fact, I would love to see a ballot initiative that supports this, to see how many Christians voted yea or nay.<br><br>I would like to see Christian women be silent and perfectly submissive to their husbands.   I would like to see Christians not judge, lest they be judged.   I would like to see you model your life according to 6th century beliefs, be one of many wives and put your child to death if he disobeys.  I would like Christian men never to spill their seed...ever.   I would like Christian women to forsake contraception and bring to term every pregnancy, included those that result from incest and rape.  You know, ....a little consistency.<br><br>The secular world can observe you...and if you succeed and not utterly destroy yourselves - then and only then will we be in awe, and allow you to make decisions for the rest of us, based on your beliefs.", "is_last_child": false, "can_reply": true, "down_voted": false, "real_date": "2008-11-15_02:45:47", "killed": false, "user_key": "Sombody_took_my_username", "has_been_anonymized": false, "edited": false, "author_is_moderator": false, "from_request_user": false, "votable": true, "date": "1 year ago", "approved": true, "num_replies": 3, "is_first_child": false, "email": "", "parent_post_id": 3786439, "depth": 3, "points": 0, "author_is_creator": false, "is_realtime": false}, "3782649": {"up_voted": false, "ip": "", "has_replies": false, "message": "The question I find myself asking and answering more and more is why does the government want to legislate what consenting adults do in the privacy of their own homes?<br><br>I find anything that smacks of discrimination, I will always take a stand against discrimination because injustices to one are injustices to ALL.  As for the Church, as long as there is separation of Church and State, I don't know whether or not churches can be forced to do anything, but if they're taking government payola, we're talking a whole 'nother kettle of fish.<br><br>I'd like to have more discussion because I confess I don't know everything involved, and I see this as an opportunity for educating as opposed to offering opinions when I'm not sure of the facts.", "is_last_child": false, "can_reply": true, "down_voted": false, "real_date": "2008-11-14_18:56:23", "killed": false, "user_key": "CPL", "has_been_anonymized": false, "edited": false, "author_is_moderator": true, "from_request_user": false, "votable": true, "date": "1 year ago", "approved": true, "num_replies": 0, "is_first_child": false, "email": "", "parent_post_id": null, "depth": 0, "points": 0, "author_is_creator": false, "is_realtime": false}, "3785803": {"up_voted": false, "ip": "", "has_replies": false, "message": "I appreciate the additional discussion. It helps in my thoughts about this. The only thing I'd add here is that the struggle for civil rights has affected many people in this country at different times in our history. In general, we've come a long way in recognizing the humanity in the \"different,\" whether that difference is sex, race, religion, national origin, whatever. <br><br>Right now the civil rights issue most prominent in our nation is for gays to have the same rights as others. <br><br>Now I'm going back to finish the cake for my father's 91st birthday. He's a little forgetful these days, enough so that he's forgotten he's a lifelong Republican and he's loving what I'm telling him about our grand new president-elect. <br><br>\"He sounds like a fine man, a fine man.\" Indeed. Night everyone. Thanks for the input.", "is_last_child": false, "can_reply": true, "down_voted": false, "real_date": "2008-11-14_23:50:40", "killed": false, "user_key": "bigassbelle", "has_been_anonymized": false, "edited": false, "author_is_moderator": false, "from_request_user": false, "votable": true, "date": "1 year ago", "approved": true, "num_replies": 0, "is_first_child": false, "email": "", "parent_post_id": 3785133, "depth": 5, "points": 0, "author_is_creator": false, "is_realtime": false}, "3781628": {"up_voted": false, "ip": "", "has_replies": true, "message": "To my knowledge, the US (federally) does not really have civil unions. Legally recognized couplehood.families get all blurred under \"marriage.\" <br><br>(if anyone knows otherwise please let me know)<br><br>There's all this blurring of religion and civil issues. So we have this thing, \"marriage,\" which is IMO a religious matter, being on people's tax forms and stuff like that. <br><br>And if I understand correctly, the state basically deputizes religious people (ministers, rabbis, etc) to act on its behalf when they perform the religious rites.", "is_last_child": false, "can_reply": true, "down_voted": false, "real_date": "2008-11-14_17:40:33", "killed": false, "user_key": "4ec3c0272b87ba5c8ce3a9168cf4e78a", "has_been_anonymized": false, "edited": false, "author_is_moderator": false, "from_request_user": null, "votable": true, "date": "1 year ago", "approved": true, "num_replies": 7, "is_first_child": false, "email": "", "parent_post_id": 3781574, "depth": 1, "points": 0, "author_is_creator": false, "is_realtime": false}, "3792682": {"up_voted": false, "ip": "", "has_replies": true, "message": "Craig, the only place we may disagree (though that seems too strong a word, really) is that I'm finding myself interested in what might happen if we were to remove the word marriage -- and thus explicitly cede marriage to the religious side -- from the bones of contention.<br><br>::<br><br>I think would diverge a bit on this. I repeat, I'm not a big gay marriage movement participant, but if equal rights are going to be applied, the language as it stands needs to be made available to every citizen. <br><br>Period.<br><br>I, for one, believe we will get there. But it will happen in the courts, not at the ballot box. Precisely because of so many reasons stated in this discussion.<br><br>I don't want to bash Christians, but I have no problem bashing dogmatists. When folks find it necessary in casual conversation to tell me what they don't believe in, I find it necessary to tell them to tell it to their mirror because I simply don't care. Dogmatists <i>do</i> want to imprison others with their dogma, whether they admit it or not. Truthseeker spelled it out brilliantly earlier in this thread.<br><br>And that is why marriage equality won't happen by legislation or at the ballot box. It will only happen in the courts because the courts can uphold principles that override religious dogma.<br><br>In that, gay marriage will go the way of interracial marriage.<br><br>Mark my words.", "is_last_child": false, "can_reply": true, "down_voted": false, "real_date": "2008-11-15_15:14:19", "killed": false, "user_key": "CraigHickman", "has_been_anonymized": false, "edited": false, "author_is_moderator": false, "from_request_user": false, "votable": true, "date": "1 year ago", "approved": true, "num_replies": 1, "is_first_child": false, "email": "", "parent_post_id": 3782285, "depth": 5, "points": 0, "author_is_creator": false, "is_realtime": false}, "3785214": {"up_voted": false, "ip": "", "has_replies": true, "message": "The thing is, it's so <b>obvious</b> to me that this is inaccurate that I don't even know how to articulate it. especially when my brain is tired like it is right now. <br><br>It's just obvious to me that the actual context -- historical and otherwise, the actual reality of the actual larger systems these were/are part of and lived experiences related to that -- is just not the same. <br><br>And a shift into abstraction and analogy-comparison in this situation moves things into an idealized ungrounded arena that I find painful.<br><br>And you know, I don't like it because I find it manipulative. Instead of grounding the struggle in the actual lived experiences of actual people and building from the ground up, it starts with rhetorical analogies to something that has certain affective meanings in the larger culture.  <br><br>It starts with a narrative framework that is not what we're actually dealing with and that starting place creates distortions, so that what is actually going on is less important than the \"narrative\" being created. Un-linking the central communication of the movement  from actual lived reality takes away certain kinds of power related to truth.<br><br>And BTW, I hate the whole argument about whether being gay is or isn't a choice. Some of us don't appreciate the \"it's not a choice\" argument. It's as if there's something wrong with us and we have to do a sort of \"but I can't help it\" approach. I try to challenge the whole is it/isn't it approach because the way I feel it, I lose on either side because my humanity gets compromised in a subtle way.<br><br>Of course, if the question is whether and how we actually can/can't, or do/don't, pass as straight and how that plays out in terms of actual lived privilege and oppression dynamics across the range of diversity among LGBT people, then maybe we could have a real discussion based in reality.<br><br>Honestly, the more I think about all this the more it seems like the whole communication between different sides re: this same-gender marriage thing is like a trading of rhetorical symbols back and forth rather than actually looking at what is going on and exploring where there are and aren't possibilities to move.<br><br>But I don't know that this explains anything. It all makes sense to me but I don't necessarily know how to articulate it. I said some stuff closely related to some of this in my reply to heartsandflowers, below if that is of any help.", "is_last_child": false, "can_reply": true, "down_voted": false, "real_date": "2008-11-14_22:51:16", "killed": false, "user_key": "4ec3c0272b87ba5c8ce3a9168cf4e78a", "has_been_anonymized": false, "edited": false, "author_is_moderator": false, "from_request_user": null, "votable": true, "date": "1 year ago", "approved": true, "num_replies": 7, "is_first_child": false, "email": "", "parent_post_id": 3784718, "depth": 5, "points": 0, "author_is_creator": false, "is_realtime": false}}, "integration": {"receiver_url": "", "theme": 4, "reply_position": true, "disqus_logo": false}, "timer": {"timer_url": "http://localhost:8005", "thread_id": "7055796", "user_id": "anonymous", "forum_id": "21630", "hash": 9082946556304099510}, "thread": {"days_alive": 0, "slug": "i_have_questions_about_gay_marriage", "paginate": false, "num_pages": 1, "num_posts": 81, "per_page": 0, "total_posts": 0, "realtime_paused": true, "id": 7055796, "queued": false}, "reactions_limit": 10, "context": {"show_reply": true, "use_fb_connect": true, "forum_facebook_key": "bd6a8bc56f8eb204984f34b6fefe228d", "use_yahoo": false, "subscribed": false, "use_twitter_signin": true, "use_openid": false, "realtime_speed": 5000}, "reactions_start": 0, "settings": {"debug": false, "disqus_url": "http://disqus.com", "media_url": "http://media.disqus.com"}, "media_url": "http://media.disqus.com"};
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	this.LOGIN_BELOW = "Login below";
	this.PLEASE_LOGIN_BELOW_TO_COMMENT = "Please login below to comment.";
	this.SUBSCRIBE_TO_ALL_COMMENTS_BY_EMAIL = "Subscribe to all comments by email";
	this.DO_NOT_SUBSCRIBE_TO_COMMENTS = "Do not subscribe to comments";
	this.REALTIME_UPDATING_IS = "Real-time updating is";
	this.ENABLED = "enabled";
	this.PAUSED = "paused";
	this.PAUSE = "Pause";
	this.RESUME = "Resume";
	this.SHOW = "Show";
	this.JUST_NOW = "Just now";
	this.REPLY = "Reply";
	this.EDIT = "Edit";
	this.FLAG = "Flag";
	this.MODERATE = "Moderate";
	this.CANCEL = "Cancel";
	this.REPLYING_TO = "Replying to";
	this.REPORT_MISSING_REACTIONS = "Report missing reactions";
	this.POST_A_COMMENT = "Post a comment";
	this.FLAG_INAPPROPRIATE_COMMENT = "Flag inappropriate comment";
	this.FLAGGED = "Flagged";
	this.NO = "No";
	this.YES = "Yes";
	this.NEVER_MIND = "Never mind";
	this.ARE_YOU_SURE_YOU_WOULD_LIKE_TO_REPORT_THIS_COMMENT_TO_A_MODERATOR = "Are you sure you would like to report this comment to a moderator";
	this.THIS_WILL_FLAG_COMMENTS_FOR_MODERATORS_TO_TAKE_ACTION = "This will flag comments for moderators to take action";
	this.TO_RATE_PLEASE_LOG_IN = "To rate, please log in";
	this.JUST_A_MOMENT = "Just a moment...";
	this.GUEST = "Guest";
	this.NAME = "Name";
	this.EMAIL = "Email";
  this.WEBSITE = "Website";
  this.SETTINGS = "Settings";
  this.MODERATOR_OPTIONS = "Moderator options: ";
};
// Dsq.Strings

/**
 * Dsq.FmtStrings: functions that return interpolated UI strings
 */
Dsq.FmtStrings = new function() {
	// Seems we have to use named interpolation for Django to translate. Investigate more.
	this.LOGGED_IN_AS = function(username) {
		return Dsq.Utils.interpolate('Logged in as %(username)s', {username:username});
	};

	this.LOGOUT_FROM = function(disqus) {
		return Dsq.Utils.interpolate('Logout from %(disqus)s', {disqus:disqus});
	};

	this.SHOWING_COMMENTS_FULL = function(total, num) {
		if (num === 1) {
			return Dsq.Utils.interpolate("Showing <span id='dsq-num-posts'>%(num)s</span> of <span id='dsq-total-posts'>%(total)s</span> comment", {num:num, total:total});
		} else {
			return Dsq.Utils.interpolate("Showing <span id='dsq-num-posts'>%(num)s</span> of <span id='dsq-total-posts'>%(total)s</span> comments", {num:num, total:total});
		}
	};

	this.SHOWING_COMMENTS_WITHOUT_PAGINATION = function(num) {
		if (num === 1) {
			return Dsq.Utils.interpolate("Showing <span id='dsq-num-posts'>%(num)s</span> comment", {num:num});
		} else {
			return Dsq.Utils.interpolate("Showing <span id='dsq-num-posts'>%(num)s</span> comments", {num:num});
		}
	};

	this.NUMBER_OF_COMMENTS = function(num) {
		return Dsq.Utils.interpolate(
			(num == 1
				? '%(num)s comment'
				: '%(num)s comments'
			), {num:num});
	};

	this.NUMBER_OF_LIKES = function(num) {
		return Dsq.Utils.interpolate(
			(num == 1
				? '%(num)s like'
				: '%(num)s likes'
			), {num:num});
	};

	this.NUMBER_OF_POINTS = function(num) {
		return Dsq.Utils.interpolate(
			(num == 1
				? '%(num)s point'
				: '%(num)s points'
			), {num:num});
	};
};
// Dsq.FmtStrings





Dsq.CSRF_TOKEN = '3a1994e3330279e78957da82fb64f754';
Dsq.COMMENTS_RE = /(<li.*?id="?dsq-comment-(\d+)"?.*?>)((?:.|\s)*?)(<\/li>)/gim;
Dsq.POST_RE = /(<div.*?id="?dsq-comment-header-(\d+)"?.*?>)((?:.|\s)*?)(<\/div>)\s*(<div.*?class="?dsq-comment-body"?.*?>)((?:.|\s)*)(<\/div>)/gim;
Dsq.POST_BODY_RE = /\s*(<div.*?id="?dsq-comment-message-(\d+)"?.*?>)((?:.|\s)*)(<\/div>)/gim;
// HACK: Safari ends with "-->" while other browsers end with "--&gt;" as expected.
Dsq.MEDIA_POST_RE = /&lt;!--\[(.*?)\]--(?:>|&gt;)/gim;



var FragmentPacket = function(reader, writer, writer_url, is_child, receiveCallback) {
	var that = this;
	this.reader = reader;
	this.writer = writer;
	this.writer_url = writer_url;

	this.is_child = is_child || false;
	this.receiveCallback = receiveCallback;

	this._lastHash = null;

	this._accumMsg = '';

	this._lastSeqno = 0;

	this.MAX_DATA_LEN	= 1024;

	this.WAIT_TIME		= 10;

	this.READY		= 0x1;
	this.WRITING	= 0x2;
	this.FIN		= 0x4;
	this.ACK		= 0x8;

};

FragmentPacket.prototype.createListener = function() {
	var that = this;
	var listener = function() {
		that.recv();
	};
	return window.setInterval(listener, 10);
};

FragmentPacket.prototype.log = function(msg) {



};

FragmentPacket.prototype.recv = function() {
	var hash;
	if (/MSIE/.test(navigator.userAgent)) {

		hash = this.reader.name;
	} else {

		var hashIndex = this.reader.location.href.indexOf('#');
		if (hashIndex == -1) {
			return;
		}
		hash = this.reader.location.href.substring(hashIndex+1);
	}
	var flags = parseInt(hash.substring(0, 4), 10);
	var seqno = parseInt(hash.substring(4, 24), 10);
	var data  = hash.substring(24);

	if (this._lastHash !== hash) {
		this._lastHash = hash;
		this.log('recv: ' + hash);

		this.log(' flags: ' + flags);
		this.log(' seqno: ' + seqno + ' len: ' + hash.substring(4, 24).length + ' (' + hash.substring(4, 24) + ')');
		this.log(' data: ' + data + ' len: ' + data.length);

		this._lastSeqno = seqno;

		if (flags & this.WRITING) {
			this._accumMsg += data;
			this.sendFlag(this.ACK, seqno);
			if (flags & this.FIN) {
				this.log('recv finished: ' + decodeURIComponent(this._accumMsg));
				this.receiveCallback(decodeURIComponent(this._accumMsg));

				this._accumMsg = '';

				this.sendFlag(this.READY | this.ACK, this._lastSeqno);
			}
		}
	}

	return {
		flags: flags,
		seqno: seqno,
		data: data
	};
};

FragmentPacket.prototype.sendRawPacket = function(packet) {
	if (/MSIE/.test(navigator.userAgent)) {
		this.writer.name = packet;
	} else {

		this.writer.location.href = this.writer_url + '#' + packet;
	}

};

FragmentPacket.prototype.sendFlag = function(flag, seqno) {
	this.sendRawPacket(this._zerofill(flag, 4) + this._zerofill(seqno, 20));
};

FragmentPacket.prototype.send = function(msg) {
	this._send(0, encodeURIComponent(msg));
};

FragmentPacket.prototype._send = function(packetNum, msg) {
	var that = this;
	var recvBuf = this.recv();

	if (packetNum === 0) {

		if (!(recvBuf.flags & this.READY)) {
			this.log('client is not ready, waiting...');
			window.setTimeout(function() { that._send(packetNum, msg); }, this.WAIT_TIME);
			return;
		}
	} else {

		if (!( (recvBuf.flags & this.ACK) && (recvBuf.seqno === this._lastSeqno) )) {
			this.log('waiting for ack from client...');
			window.setTimeout(function() { that._send(packetNum, msg); }, this.WAIT_TIME);
			return;
		} else {
			this.log('received ack: ' + this._lastSeqno + ' ' + recvBuf.seqno);
		}
	}

	var flags = this.WRITING;
	var num_packets = Math.ceil(msg.length / this.MAX_DATA_LEN);
	this.log('num_packets: ' + num_packets);

	if (num_packets === packetNum) {

		this.log('message successfully sent!');
		this.sendFlag(this.READY | this.ACK, this._lastSeqno);
		return true;
	}

	this._lastSeqno++;

	if (packetNum == num_packets-1) {
		flags |= this.FIN;
	}

	var data = msg.substring(packetNum * this.MAX_DATA_LEN, (packetNum+1) * this.MAX_DATA_LEN);
	var packet = this._zerofill(flags, 4) + this._zerofill(this._lastSeqno, 20) + data;

	this.log('sending raw packet: ' + packet);
	this.sendRawPacket(packet);

	return this._send(packetNum + 1, msg);
};

FragmentPacket.prototype._zerofill = function(num, width) {
	var retval = num.toString();
	var retval_len = retval.length;
	for (var i = 0; i < width - retval_len; i++) {
		retval = '0' + retval;
	}
	return retval;
};

var PostMessagePacket = function(receiver, receiveCallback, id, receiverId) {
	var that = this;
	this.receiver = receiver;
	this.receiveCallback = receiveCallback;
	this.id = id;


	this.receiverId = receiverId;
};

PostMessagePacket.prototype.createListener = function() {
	var that = this;

	var listener = function(e) {

		if (!that.id) {
			that.id = e.data;
			return;
		}


		var id = e.data.split(';')[0];
		if (id !== that.id) {
			return;
		}
		var data = e.data.substring(e.data.indexOf(';') + 1);

		that.receiveCallback(data);
	};

	if (typeof window.attachEvent == 'function') {
		window.attachEvent('onmessage', listener);
	} else if (typeof window.addEventListener == 'function') {
		window.addEventListener('message', listener, false);
	} else {
		throw new Error('No method found to create event listener for PostMessagePacket.');
	}
};

PostMessagePacket.prototype.send = function(msg) {



	var needs_reget = false;
	try {
		if (typeof this.receiver.id == 'undefined' || typeof this.receiver.postMessage == 'undefined') {
			needs_reget = true;
		}
	} catch(e) {


	}
	if (needs_reget && typeof this.receiverId != 'undefined') {
		this.receiver = document.getElementById(this.receiverId).contentWindow;
	}

	var packet;
	if (!msg) {

		packet = this.id;
	} else {
		packet = this.id + ';' + msg;
	}
	this.receiver.postMessage(packet, '*');
};

PostMessagePacket._last_unique_id = null;
PostMessagePacket._get_unique_id = function() {
	var id = (new Date()).getTime();
	if (id == PostMessagePacket._last_unique_id) {
		id++;
	}
	PostMessagePacket._last_unique_id = id;
	return id.toString();
};

var JsonRpc = function() {

	this.ids = {};

	this.objectToJSON = function(obj) {
		var json = '';
		var results = [];

		if (obj === undefined || obj === null) {
			return 'null';
		}

		switch (obj.constructor) {
			case Object:
				for (var property in obj) {
					if (obj.hasOwnProperty(property)) {
						results.push(this.objectToJSON(property) + ': ' + this.objectToJSON(obj[property]));
					}
				}
				json = '{' + results.join(', ') + '}';
				break;
			case Array:
				for (var i = 0; i < obj.length; i++) {
					results.push(this.objectToJSON(obj[i]));
				}
				json = '[' + results.join(', ') + ']';
				break;
			case Number:
			case Boolean:
				json = obj.toString();
				break;
			case String:

				var specialChars = {'\b': '\\b', '\t': '\\t', '\n': '\\n', '\f': '\\f', '\r': '\\r', '\\': '\\\\'};

				json = obj.replace(/[\x00-\x1f\\]/g, function(match) {
					var ch = specialChars[match];
					return ch ? ch : '\\u00' + match.charCodeAt().toPaddedString(2, 16);
				});

				json = '"' + json.replace(/"/g, '\\"') + '"';
				break;
			default:

				json = 'null';
				break;
		}

		return json;
	};

	this.createHandler = function(send_func, registered_funcs) {
		var that = this;
		var handler = function(message) {

			try {
				var rpc = eval('(' + message + ')');
			} catch(e) {
				alert('bad JSON: ' + message);
				return;
			}
			if (rpc.method) {

				if (!registered_funcs[rpc.method]) {
					return;
				}

				var retval = registered_funcs[rpc.method].apply(null, rpc.params);
				if (rpc.id) {
					var response = {
						result: retval,
						error: null,	// TODO
						id: rpc.id
					};
					send_func(that.objectToJSON(response));
				}
			} else if(rpc.result) {

				if (!that.ids[rpc.id]) {
					return;
				}

				that.ids[rpc.id](rpc.result);
				delete that.ids[rpc.id];
			}
		};
		return handler;
	};

	this.execute = function(send_func, method, params, response_callback) {
		response_callback = response_callback || null;
		var id = (response_callback) ? (new Date()).getTime() : null;

		var request = {
			method: method,
			params: params,
			id: id
		};

		send_func(this.objectToJSON(request));

		if (id) {
			this.ids[id] = response_callback;
		}
	};
};
JsonRpc = new JsonRpc();

var ParentMessenger = function(childUrl, receiverUrl, container, receiveCallback) {


	if (navigator.userAgent.indexOf('Safari') >= 0 && parseInt(navigator.userAgent.substring(navigator.userAgent.indexOf('Version/') + 8), 10) == 3) {
		throw new Error("unsupported.");
	} else if (window.opera) {
		throw new Error("unsupported.");
	}



	if (!receiverUrl &&
		navigator.userAgent.indexOf('Gecko') >= 0 &&
		parseFloat(navigator.userAgent.slice(navigator.userAgent.indexOf('rv:') + 3, navigator.userAgent.indexOf('rv:') + 6)) < 1.9) {
		throw new Error("unsupported.");
	}


	if (/msie/i.test(navigator.userAgent) && !/opera/i.test(navigator.userAgent)) {


		if (document.domain == window.location.hostname) {
			receiverUrl = '';
		}
	}

	var that = this;
	this.childUrl = childUrl;
	this.receiverUrl = receiverUrl;
	this.container = container || document.body;

	this.packetHandler = null;


	this._ready = false;
	this._error = false;


	var _createReceiverForFragmentPacket = function() {

		that.receiver = document.createElement('iframe');
		that.receiver.src = receiverUrl;
		that.receiver.id = 'receiver_' + (new Date()).getTime();
		that.receiver.name = that.receiver.id;

		that.receiver.frameBorder = '0';
		that.receiver.frameSpacing = '0';
		that.receiver.style.borderStyle = 'none';

		var receiver_onload = function() {
			var receiver = document.getElementById(that.receiver.id).contentWindow;

			try {
				receiver.document.body.innerHTML = '';
			} catch(e) {

				that._error = true;
			}
			receiver.document.body.style.padding = '0px';
			receiver.document.body.style.margin = '0px';

			var child = receiver.document.createElement('iframe');
			child.id = 'child';
			child.name = 'child';
			child.src = that.childUrl;

			child.frameBorder = '0';
			child.frameSpacing = '0';
			child.style.borderStyle = 'none';
			child.style.width = '100%';
			child.style.height = '100%';
			receiver.document.body.appendChild(child);

			that.child = receiver.document.getElementById('child').contentWindow;
			that.receiver = receiver;

			that.packetHandler = new FragmentPacket(that.receiver, that.child, that.childUrl, false, receiveCallback);

			that._listener = that.packetHandler.createListener();

			that.packetHandler.sendFlag(that.packetHandler.READY, 0);

			that._ready = true;
		};

		that.receiver.onreadystatechange = function() {
			if (this.readyState == 'complete') {
				receiver_onload();
			}
		};

		that.receiver.onload = receiver_onload;







		if (Dsq.Utils.ie) {
			if (that.container.clientWidth === 0) {

				var _waitForWidth = function() {
					if (that.container.clientWidth > 0) {
						Dsq.Utils.fixIframesIE(that.container.id);
					} else {
						window.setTimeout(_waitForWidth, 100);
					}
				};
				_waitForWidth();

				that._once = false;
				that.receiver.onresize = function() {
					if (!that._once) {
						Dsq.Utils.fixIframesIE(that.container.id);
					}
					that._once = true;
				};
			}
		}

		that.container.appendChild(that.receiver);
	};


	var _createReceiverForPostMessage = function() {

		var receiver_onload = function() {

			that.packetHandler.send();
			that._ready = true;
		};

		var id = PostMessagePacket._get_unique_id();
		var receiverId = 'child_' + id;


		ParentMessenger['_receiver_onload_' + receiverId] = receiver_onload;

		that.container.innerHTML += '<iframe ' +
			'src="' + childUrl + '" ' +
			'id="' + receiverId + '" ' +
			'name="' + receiverId + '" ' +
			'onload="ParentMessenger._receiver_onload_' + receiverId +'();" ' +
			'></iframe>';

		that.receiver = document.getElementById(receiverId).contentWindow;
		that.packetHandler = new PostMessagePacket(that.receiver, receiveCallback, id, receiverId);
		that._listener = that.packetHandler.createListener();
	};

	if (typeof window.postMessage == 'function') {
		_createReceiverForPostMessage();
	} else {
		_createReceiverForFragmentPacket();
	}

};

ParentMessenger.prototype.sendMessage = function(message) {
	var that = this;
	if (!this._ready) {

		window.setTimeout(function() { that.sendMessage(message); }, 10);
		return;
	}
	this.packetHandler.send(message);
	return true;
};

Dsq.NewFrames = function(url) {
	this.url = url;
};

Dsq.NewFrames.prototype.init = function(onFailure) {
	var that = this;

	try {
		this.messenger = new ParentMessenger(this.url, Dsq.jsonData.integration.receiver_url, this.container, this.receive_callback);
	} catch(e) {
		if (typeof onFailure == 'function') {
			onFailure();
		}
	}

	if (typeof onFailure == 'function') {
		var iId = window.setInterval(function() {
			if (typeof that.messenger == 'undefined') {
				window.clearInterval(iId);
				return;
			}
			if (that.messenger._ready) {
				window.clearInterval(iId);
			} else if (that.messenger._error) {
				window.clearInterval(iId);
				onFailure();
			}
		}, 10);
	}
};

Dsq.NewFrames.prototype._execute = function(method, args, callback) {
	var that = this;
	if (typeof that.messenger == 'undefined') {
		return false;
	}
	JsonRpc.execute(
		function(msg) { that.messenger.sendMessage(msg); },
		method,
		args || [],
		callback);
	return true;
};

Dsq.ReplyFrame = function(container, parent_post_id) {
	var that = this;
	this.container = container;
	this.parent_post_id = parent_post_id;

	var sendFunc = function(msg) {

		Dsq.Debug.log('Dsq.ReplyFrame.sendFunc');
		that.messenger.sendMessage(msg);
	};


	var postComment_onSuccess = function(response) {
		Dsq.jsonData.posts[response.message.id] = response.message.post_meta;
		if (!Dsq.jsonData.users[response.message.post_meta.user_key]) {
			Dsq.jsonData.users[response.message.post_meta.user_key] = response.message.user_meta;
		}


		var reply_position = (typeof(disqus_insert_wrt_sort) == 'undefined' 
			? (Dsq.jsonData.forum.reply_position ? -1 : null) 
			: (Dsq.jsonData.request.sort == 2 ? null : -1));
		
		if (response.message.post_meta.approved) {
			Dsq.Post.insert(response.message.post_meta.parent_post_id || reply_position, response.message.id, response.message.post_meta.message);
		}

		Dsq.Templates.postComment_onSuccess(response, parent_post_id, response.message.id);
	};

	var postComment_onFailure = function(response) {
		Dsq.Popup.popModal(response.message, 'Error');
		Dsq.Templates.postComment_onFailure(response, parent_post_id, response.message.id);
	};

	var editComment_onSuccess = function(response) {
		var post_id = parent_post_id;
		var message = Dsq.$('dsq-comment-message-' + post_id);
		
		message.innerHTML = response.message;
		Dsq.Templates.toggleEdit(post_id);
		Dsq.Templates.setLoadingButton(false);
	};
	
	var editComment_onFailure = function(response) {
		var post_id = parent_post_id;
		
		Dsq.Popup.popModal('Sorry, there was an error editing this comment.', 'Edit Error');
		Dsq.Templates.toggleEdit(post_id);
		Dsq.Templates.setLoadingButton(false);
	};

	var getUserByEmail_onSuccess = function(response) {
		var msg = response.message;
		var fields = Dsq.Templates.getFormFields(parent_post_id);

		if (msg.username) {

			Dsq.Templates.lightboxAuthenticate(parent_post_id, 'login', {
				'username': msg.username,
				'display_name': msg.display_name,
				'avatar_url': msg.avatar_url,
				'verified': msg.verified,
				'email': fields.email.value
			});
		} else {

			Dsq.Templates.lightboxAuthenticate(parent_post_id, 'register');
		}
	};

	var validateAuth_onSuccess = function(response, auth_choice) {
		Dsq.Templates.postComment(parent_post_id, null, true, auth_choice);
	};

	var validateAuth_onFailure = function(response, auth_choice) {
		var pid = parent_post_id ? '-' + parent_post_id : '';
		var msg = response.message;

		if (auth_choice == 'register') {
			var fields = ['email', 'username', 'password'];

			for (var i = 0; i < fields.length; i++) {
				var field = fields[i];
				var errorDiv = Dsq.$('dsq-' + field + '-errors' + pid);

				if (msg[field]) {
					errorDiv.innerHTML = msg[field];
				} else {
					errorDiv.innerHTML = '';
				}
			}
		} else if (auth_choice == 'login') {
			Dsq.$('dsq-lightbox-errors' + pid).innerHTML = '<p>We couldn\'t log you in. Please verify your login.</p>';
		}
		
		Dsq.Templates.setLoadingButton(false);
	};

	this.receive_callback = JsonRpc.createHandler(sendFunc, {
		'postComment.onSuccess': postComment_onSuccess,
		'postComment.onFailure': postComment_onFailure,
		'editComment.onSuccess': editComment_onSuccess,
		'editComment.onFailure': editComment_onFailure,		
		'getUserByEmail.onSuccess': getUserByEmail_onSuccess,
		'validateAuth.onSuccess': validateAuth_onSuccess,
		'validateAuth.onFailure': validateAuth_onFailure,
		'reload': function() { window.location.reload(); }
	});

	this.url = Dsq.Urls.REPLY +
		'?' + (new Date()).getTime() +
		'&f=jackandjillpolitics' +
		'&t=i_have_questions_about_gay_marriage' +
		'&ff=' + Dsq.Thread.ff +
		'&default_text=' + disqus_default_text +
		'&ifrs=' + encodeURIComponent(disqus_iframe_css);
	if (this.parent_post_id) {
		this.url += '&parent_post=' + this.parent_post_id;
	}
};

Dsq.ReplyFrame.prototype = new Dsq.NewFrames(Dsq.ReplyFrame.url);

Dsq.ReplyFrame.prototype.post = function(author_name, author_email, author_url, authenticate, sharing_services, subscribe) {
	this._execute('postComment', [author_name, author_email, author_url, authenticate, sharing_services, subscribe]);
};

Dsq.ReplyFrame.prototype.edit = function(post_id, message) {
	this._execute('editComment', [post_id, message]);
};

Dsq.ReplyFrame.prototype.setState = function(parent_post_id, depth) {
	this._execute('setState', [parent_post_id, depth]);
};

Dsq.ReplyFrame.prototype.getUserByEmail = function(email) {
	this._execute('getUserByEmail', [email]);
};

Dsq.ReplyFrame.prototype.validateAuth = function(auth_choice, email, username, password) {
	this._execute('validateAuth', [auth_choice, email, username, password]);
};

Dsq.ReplyFrame.prototype.authenticateFacebook = function(session, forum_url) {
	this._execute('authenticateFacebook', [session, forum_url]);
};

	Dsq.Facebook = function() {
	var that = this;

	var handleSessionData = function(session) {

		var forum_url = Dsq.jsonData.forum.url;




		if (typeof disqus_facebook_forum != 'undefined') {
			forum_url = disqus_facebook_forum;
		}
		Dsq.frames.reply_0.authenticateFacebook(session, forum_url);
	};

	var onLogin = function() {
		FB.Connect.getSignedPublicSessionData(handleSessionData);
	};

	this.login = function() {
		FB.Connect.requireSession(onLogin, true);
	};
};
Dsq.Facebook = new Dsq.Facebook();


	






Dsq.Themes = {};

Dsq.Themes.narcissus = new function() {
	this.addPostContainer = 'dsq-form-area';
	this.textareaContainer = 'dsq-textarea-wrapper';



	
	this.header = function() {
		var comments_count, total_posts, num_posts;
		var html = '';
		var missing_perm_tmpl;

		if (Dsq.jsonData.request.missing_perm) {
			missing_perm_tmpl = Dsq.Templates.missingPermissions();
			if (missing_perm_tmpl) {
				html += '<div class="dsq-missing-permissions">' + missing_perm_tmpl + '</div>';
			}
		}

		total_posts = Dsq.jsonData.thread.total_posts;
		num_posts = Dsq.jsonData.thread.num_posts;

		if (total_posts) {
			comments_count = Dsq.FmtStrings.SHOWING_COMMENTS_FULL(total_posts, num_posts);
		} else {
			comments_count = Dsq.FmtStrings.SHOWING_COMMENTS_WITHOUT_PAGINATION(num_posts);
		}

		html += ' \
		<div id="dsq-comments-title"> \
			<h3>' + comments_count + '</h3> \
		</div> \
		';

		html += ' \
		<div class="dsq-options"> \
			<span class="dsq-item-sort">'
				+ Dsq.Strings.SORT_BY + ' \
				<select id="dsq-sort-select" onchange="Dsq.Thread.sortBy(this.value);"> \
					<option value="hot" ' + (Dsq.jsonData.request.sort == 4 ? 'selected="selected"' : '') + '>' + Dsq.Strings.POPULAR_NOW + '</option> \
					<option value="best" ' + (Dsq.jsonData.request.sort == 3 ? 'selected="selected"' : '') + '>' + Dsq.Strings.BEST_RATING + '</option> \
					<option value="newest" ' + (Dsq.jsonData.request.sort == 2 ? 'selected="selected"' : '') + '>' + Dsq.Strings.NEWEST_FIRST + '</option> \
					<option value="oldest" ' + (Dsq.jsonData.request.sort == 1 ? 'selected="selected"' : '') + '>' + Dsq.Strings.OLDEST_FIRST + '</option> \
				</select> \
				&nbsp; \
			</span> \
			<span class="dsq-subscribe-email"> \
				<img src="http://media.disqus.com/images/embed/email.png" style="width:12px;height:12px;vertical-align:middle"> \
				<span id="dsq-subscribe">'
					+ (Dsq.jsonData.context.subscribed
						? '<a href="#" onclick="Dsq.Thread.subscribe(0); return false">' + Dsq.Strings.UNSUBSCRIBE + '</a>'
						: '<a href="#" onclick="Dsq.Thread.subscribe(1); return false">' + Dsq.Strings.SUBSCRIBE_BY_EMAIL + '</a>')
				+ '</span> \
			</span> \
			<span class="dsq-subscribe-rss" style="width:12px;height:12px;vertical-align:middle"> \
				<img src="http://media.disqus.com/images/embed/bullet-feed.png" alt="" /> \
				<a href="http://jackandjillpolitics.disqus.com/i_have_questions_about_gay_marriage/latest.rss">' + Dsq.Strings.SUBSCRIBE_BY_RSS + '</a> \
			</span> \
		</div> \
		';

		
		

		return html;

	};
	
	this.footer = function() {
		var html = '';

		html += Dsq.Templates.pagination();

		
		
			html += Dsq.Templates.realtime();
			html += Dsq.Templates.showThreadSettings();
			html += Dsq.Templates.postBox();

		html += Dsq.Templates.reactions();

		
			html += Dsq.Templates.trackbacks();
		


		if (Dsq.jsonData.request.is_global_moderator) {
 			html += ' \
				<div class="dsq-global-moderator-extras">'
					+ '<strong>shortname:</strong> ' + Dsq.jsonData.forum.url
					+ '<strong>thread id:</strong> ' + Dsq.jsonData.thread.id
					+ '<strong>thread slug:</strong> ' + Dsq.jsonData.thread.slug
				+ '</div> \
			';
		}

		return html;
	};
	
	this.realtime = function() {
		var html = '';
		
		if (Dsq.jsonData.realtime_enabled) {
			html += '<div id="dsq-realtime-options" class="dsq-options">'
					 + Dsq.Strings.REALTIME_UPDATING_IS + ' <strong id="dsq-realtime-status" style="text-transform: lowercase">' + Dsq.Strings.ENABLED + '</strong>. \
					 <a href="#" id="dsq-realtime-toggle" style="text-transform: capitalize"></a> \
					</div>';
		}

		if (!Dsq.jsonData.forum.streaming_realtime) {
			html += ' \
				<div style="display: none" id="dsq-realtime-alert" class="dsq-realtime-alert"><span id="dsq-realtime-queued"></span> <a href="#" id="dsq-realtime-show"></a></div> \
			';
		}
		
		return html;
	};

	this.showThreadSettings = function() {
		if (!Dsq.jsonData.request.is_moderator) {
			return '';
		}

		html = '<div id="dsq-thread-settings" class="dsq-thread-settings">' + Dsq.Strings.MODERATOR_OPTIONS;
		html += '<a href="#" onclick="Dsq.Thread.showSettings(); return false;">' + Dsq.Strings.SETTINGS + '</a>';
		if (Dsq.jsonData.forum.reactions_enabled && Dsq.jsonData.reactions.length === 0) {
			html += '<a href="#" onclick="Dsq.Reaction.reportMissingReactions(); return false;">'
						+ Dsq.Strings.REPORT_MISSING_REACTIONS
						+ '</a>';
		}
		html +='</div>';

		return html;
	};

	this.postBox = function(post_id, use_fallback_iframe) {


		var html;
		var display_sharing_options = Dsq.jsonData.request.is_authenticated;

		if (!Dsq.jsonData.request.is_authenticated && Dsq.jsonData.forum.disqus_auth_disabled && !Dsq.jsonData.forum.allow_anon_post) {
			return '';
		}
		
		if (Dsq.jsonData.request.is_remote) {


			if (!Dsq.jsonData.request.sharing.hasOwnProperty(Dsq.jsonData.request.remote_domain)) {
				display_sharing_options = false;
			}
		}
		
		if (post_id) {
			var _meta = Dsq.jsonData.posts[post_id];
			var userData = Dsq.jsonData['users'][_meta.user_key];				
		}
		
		var pid = post_id ? '-' + post_id : '';

		var _requestUserInfo = function() {
			var html;



			var user_has_email = false;

			html = '<div class="dsq-request-user-info"> <!-- // If authenticated --> \
				<a href="' + Dsq.jsonData.settings.disqus_url + Dsq.Urls.LOGOUT + '?ctkn=' + Dsq.CSRF_TOKEN + '" class="dsq-request-user-logout">' + Dsq.Strings.LOGOUT + '</a> \
				<table> \
					<tr> \
						<td rowspan="2">'
							+ (!Dsq.jsonData.forum.disqus_auth_disabled ? '<a href="' + Dsq.jsonData.settings.disqus_url + Dsq.Urls.REQUEST_USER_PROFILE + '">' : '')
								+ '<img src="' + Dsq.Urls.REQUEST_USER_AVATAR + '" width="48" height="48" class="dsq-request-user-avatar">'
							+ (!Dsq.jsonData.forum.disqus_auth_disabled ? '</a>' : '')
						+ '</td> \
						<td class="dsq-request-user-name">'
								+ (Dsq.jsonData.request.is_remote
									 ? '<span class="dsq-badge-small dsq-badge-' + Dsq.jsonData.request.remote_domain + '">' + Dsq.jsonData.request.remote_domain + '</span>'
									 : (Dsq.jsonData.request.is_verified
											? '<span class="dsq-badge-small dsq-badge-verified">Verified</span>'
											: '<span class="dsq-badge-small dsq-badge-registered">Registered</span>'))
							+ (!Dsq.jsonData.forum.disqus_auth_disabled ? ' <a href="' + Dsq.jsonData.settings.disqus_url + Dsq.Urls.REQUEST_USER_PROFILE + '">' : '') 
								+ Dsq.jsonData.request.display_username 
							+ (!Dsq.jsonData.forum.disqus_auth_disabled ? '</a>' : '')
							+  (Dsq.jsonData.request.is_remote && user_has_email ? ' <small>(<a href="#" onclick="Dsq.Popup.remoteAccountSettings(); return false;">change settings</a>)</small>' : '')
							+  (!Dsq.jsonData.request.is_remote && !Dsq.jsonData.forum.disqus_auth_disabled ? ' <small>(<a href="' + Dsq.jsonData.settings.disqus_url + '/profile/info/" target="_blank">change name</a> or <a href="' + Dsq.jsonData.settings.disqus_url + '/profile/avatar/" target="_blank">picture</a>)</small>' : '')
						+ '</td> \
					</tr> \
					<tr> \
						<td class="dsq-request-user-stats"> \
							<span><big>' + Dsq.jsonData.request.comments_count + '</big> ' + (Dsq.jsonData.request.comments_count == 1 ? 'comment' : 'comments') + '</span> \
							<span><big>' + Dsq.jsonData.request.likes_count + '</big> ' + (Dsq.jsonData.request.likes_count == 1 ? 'like' : 'likes') + '</span> \
							<span><big>' + Dsq.jsonData.request.points + '</big> ' + (Dsq.jsonData.request.points == 1 ? 'point' : 'points') + '</span> \
						</td> \
					</tr> \
				</table> \
			</div> \
			';
			return html;
		};

		var _loginOptions = function() {
			var html;
			html = ' \
			<div class="dsq-authenticate"> \
				<p class="dsq-autheneticate-copy">'
				+ (Dsq.jsonData.forum.allow_anon_post
					? Dsq.Strings.YOU_ARE_COMMENTING_AS_A + ' <a class="dsq-help" title="Click for more information" href="#" onclick="Dsq.Popup.helpBadges(); return false">Guest</a>. ' + Dsq.Strings.OPTIONAL + ': ' + Dsq.Strings.LOGIN_BELOW + '.'
					: Dsq.Strings.REQUIRED + ': ' + Dsq.Strings.PLEASE_LOGIN_BELOW_TO_COMMENT + '.')
				+ '</p> \
				<ul class="dsq-login-buttons">'
					+ (!Dsq.jsonData.forum.disqus_auth_disabled ? '<li class="dsq-login-button"><a href="#" onclick="Dsq.Popup.login(); return false"><img src="http://media.disqus.com/images/themes/narcissus/login-disqus.gif" /></a></li>' : '')
					+ (Dsq.jsonData.context.use_fb_connect ? '<li class="dsq-login-button"><a href="#" onclick="Dsq.Facebook.login(); return false;"><img src="http://media.disqus.com/images/themes/narcissus/login-facebook.gif" /></a></li>' : '')
					+ (Dsq.jsonData.context.use_twitter_signin ? '<li class="dsq-login-button"><a href="#" onclick="Dsq.Twitter.startTwitterConnect(); return false"><img src="http://media.disqus.com/images/themes/narcissus/login-twitter.gif" /></a></li>' : '')
					+ (Dsq.jsonData.context.use_openid ? '<li class="dsq-login-button"><a href="#" onclick="Dsq.OpenID.requestURL(); return false" ><img src="http://media.disqus.com/images/themes/narcissus/login-openid.gif" /></a></li>' : '')
					+ (Dsq.jsonData.context.use_yahoo ? '<li class="dsq-login-button"><a href="#" onclick="Dsq.Yahoo.startYahooConnect(); return false"><img src="http://media.disqus.com/images/themes/narcissus/login-yahoo.gif" /></a></li>' : '')
				+ '</ul> \
			</div> \
			';
			return html;
		};

		if (!Dsq.jsonData.context.show_reply) {


			if (!Dsq.jsonData.request.is_authenticated) {



				return '<div id="dsq-form-area" style="display:none"><div id="dsq-textarea-wrapper"></div></div>' + _loginOptions();
			} else {
				return '';
			}
		}

		html = ' \
		<div id="' + (post_id 
			? 'dsq-reply-post-' + post_id
			: 'dsq-new-post')
		 	+ '" class="dsq-post-area"> \
			<div class="dsq-dc-logo"> \
				<a href="http://disqus.com/comments" target="_blank"><img src="http://media.disqus.com/images/themes/narcissus/disqus-logo.png"></a> \
			</div>'
			+ (post_id 
				? '<h3>' + Dsq.Strings.REPLYING_TO + ' ' + userData.display_name + '</h3>'
				: '<h3>' + Dsq.Strings.ADD_NEW_COMMENT + '</h3>')
			+ (Dsq.jsonData.request.is_authenticated 
				? _requestUserInfo()
				: _loginOptions() )
			+ '<div id="dsq-form-area' + pid + '">'
			+ '<div class="dsq-textarea"> \
				<div class="dsq-textarea-wrapper" id="dsq-textarea-wrapper' + pid + '"></div> \
			</div>'
			+ (!Dsq.jsonData.request.is_authenticated
			? ' \
			<div class="dsq-post-fields"> \
				<form action="." method="GET" onsubmit="Dsq.Templates.postComment(' + post_id + ', this, false); return false;"> \
				<table> \
					<tr> \
						<td class="dsq-post-fields-left"><div class="dsq-input-wrapper"><input id="dsq-field-name' + pid + '" type="text" value="' + (disqus_def_name ? disqus_def_name : (Dsq.jsonData.session.name ? Dsq.jsonData.session.name : Dsq.Strings.NAME + '" class="dsq-placeholder')) + '" onfocus="Dsq.Templates.handlePlaceholder(event, this, \'name\')" onblur="Dsq.Templates.handlePlaceholder(event, this, \'name\')" /></div></td> \
						<td class="dsq-post-fields-right"><div class="dsq-input-wrapper"><input id="dsq-field-website' + pid + '" type="text" value="' + (Dsq.jsonData.session.url ? Dsq.jsonData.session.url : Dsq.Strings.WEBSITE + ' (' + Dsq.Strings.OPTIONAL.toLowerCase() + ')" class="dsq-placeholder') + '" onfocus="Dsq.Templates.handlePlaceholder(event, this, \'website\')" onblur="Dsq.Templates.handlePlaceholder(event, this, \'website\')" /></div></td> \
					</tr> \
					<tr> \
						<td class="dsq-post-fields-left"><div class="dsq-input-wrapper"><input id="dsq-field-email' + pid + '" type="text" value="' + (disqus_def_email ? disqus_def_email : (Dsq.jsonData.session.email ? Dsq.jsonData.session.email : Dsq.Strings.EMAIL + '" class="dsq-placeholder')) + '" onfocus="Dsq.Templates.handlePlaceholder(event, this, \'email\')" onblur="Dsq.Templates.handlePlaceholder(event, this, \'email\')" /></div></td> \
						<td class="dsq-post-fields-right"> \
							<div class="dsq-subscribe"> \
								<a href="#" onclick="Dsq.Templates.chooseSubscribe(' + post_id + '); return false" class="dsq-subscribe-menu"><span id="dsq-subscribe-select' + pid + '">' + (Dsq.jsonData.request.subscribe_on_post ? Dsq.Strings.SUBSCRIBE_TO_ALL_COMMENTS_BY_EMAIL : Dsq.Strings.DO_NOT_SUBSCRIBE_TO_COMMENTS) + '</span> <small>&#9660;</small></a> \
								<ul class="dsq-panel" id="dsq-subscribe-menu' + pid + '"> \
									<li><a href="#" onclick="Dsq.Templates.setSubscribe(2, this, ' + post_id + '); return false">Subscribe to all comments by email</a></li> \
									<li><a href="#" onclick="Dsq.Templates.setSubscribe(0, this, ' + post_id + '); return false">Do not subscribe to comments</a></li> \
								</ul> \
								<input id="dsq-subscribe-on-post' + pid + '" type="hidden" value="' + Dsq.jsonData.request.subscribe_on_post + '" /> \
							</div> \
						</td> \
					</tr> \
				</table> \
				</form> \
			</div>'
			: '')
			+ '<div class="dsq-post-footer"> \
				<div class="dsq-sharing-options" ' + (!display_sharing_options ? 'style="display:none;"' : '') + '> \
					<button class="dsq-button-small" onfocus="document.getElementById(\'dsq-post-button' + pid + '\').focus();"><span>' + Dsq.Strings.SHARING_OPTIONS + ' <small>&#9660;</small></span></button> \
					<div class="dsq-panel"> '
						+ (Dsq.jsonData.request.sharing.twitter !== undefined
								&& Dsq.jsonData.request.sharing.twitter.enabled === true
							? '<div><input type="checkbox" id="dsq-sharing-twitter' + pid + '"'
								  + (Dsq.jsonData.request.sharing.twitter.auto === true ? 'checked=true' : '') + '/> \
									<label for="dsq-sharing-twitter' + pid + '">' + Dsq.Strings.SHARE_ON + ' Twitter</label> \
								 </div>'
							: '')
						+ (Dsq.jsonData.request.sharing.facebook
								&& (Dsq.jsonData.request.sharing.facebook.enabled === true ||
										(Dsq.jsonData.request.is_remote && Dsq.jsonData.request.remote_domain == 'facebook'))
							? '<div><input type="checkbox" id="dsq-sharing-facebook' + pid + '"'
									+ (Dsq.jsonData.request.sharing.facebook.auto === true ? 'checked=true' : '') + '/> \
									<label for="dsq-sharing-facebook' + pid + '">' + Dsq.Strings.SHARE_ON + ' Facebook</label> \
								 </div>'
							: '')
						+ (Dsq.jsonData.request.sharing.yahoo !== undefined
								&& Dsq.jsonData.request.sharing.yahoo.enabled === true
							? '<div><input type="checkbox" id="dsq-sharing-yahoo' + pid + '"'
									+ (Dsq.jsonData.request.sharing.yahoo.auto === true ? 'checked=true' : '') + '/> \
									<label for="dsq-sharing-yahoo' + pid + '">' + Dsq.Strings.SHARE_ON + ' Yahoo!</label> \
								</div>'
							: '')
						+ (Dsq.jsonData.request.sharing.tumblr !== undefined
								&& Dsq.jsonData.request.sharing.tumblr.enabled === true
							? '<div><input type="checkbox" id="dsq-sharing-tumblr' + pid + '"'
									+ (Dsq.jsonData.request.sharing.tumblr.auto === true ? 'checked=true' : '') + '/> \
									<label for="dsq-sharing-tumblr' + pid + '">' + Dsq.Strings.SHARE_ON + ' Tumblr</label> \
								 </div>'
							: '')
						+ (Dsq.jsonData.request.sharing.wordpress !== undefined
								&& Dsq.jsonData.request.sharing.wordpress.enabled === true
							? '<div><input type="checkbox" id="dsq-sharing-wordpress' + pid + '"'
									+ (Dsq.jsonData.request.sharing.wordpress.auto === true ? 'checked=true' : '') + '/> \
									<label for="dsq-sharing-wordpress' + pid + '">' + Dsq.Strings.SHARE_ON + ' Wordpress</label> \
								 </div>'
							: '')
						+ (Dsq.jsonData.request.sharing.movabletype !== undefined
							  && Dsq.jsonData.request.sharing.movabletype.enabled === true
							? '<div><input type="checkbox" id="dsq-sharing-movabletype' + pid + '"'
									+ (Dsq.jsonData.request.sharing.movabletype.auto === true ? 'checked=true' : '') + '/> \
									<label for="dsq-sharing-movabletype' + pid + '">' + Dsq.Strings.SHARE_ON + ' Movable Type</label> \
							   </div>'
							: '')
						+ (Dsq.jsonData.request.sharing.typepad !== undefined
							  && Dsq.jsonData.request.sharing.typepad.enabled === true
							? '<div><input type="checkbox" id="dsq-sharing-typepad' + pid + '"'
									+ (Dsq.jsonData.request.sharing.typepad.auto === true ? 'checked=true' : '') + '/> \
								  <label for="dsq-sharing-typepad' + pid + '">' + Dsq.Strings.SHARE_ON + ' TypePad</label> \
							   </div>'
							: '')
						+ '<div><a href="' + Dsq.jsonData.settings.disqus_url + '/profile/connections/" target="_blank" class="dsq-configure-options">' + Dsq.Strings.CONFIGURE_OPTIONS + '</a></div>'
					+ '</div> \
				</div>'
				+ '<button class="dsq-button" id="dsq-post-button' + pid + '" onclick="Dsq.Templates.postComment(' + post_id + ', this, false)"><span>' + Dsq.Strings.POST_AS + ' '
				+ (Dsq.jsonData.request.display_username
					? Dsq.jsonData.request.display_username
					: Dsq.Strings.GUEST)
				+ '</span></button>'
				+ (post_id
					? '<button class="dsq-button" id="dsq-cancel-button' + pid + '" onclick="Dsq.Post.toggleReply(' + post_id +', this)"><span>' + Dsq.Strings.CANCEL + '</span></button>'
					: '')
			+ '</div>'
			+ '</div>' // end dsq-form-area
		+ '</div> \
		';
		
		return html;
	};




	this.appendPost = function(post_id) {
		var html = '<div id="dsq-append-post-' + post_id + '"></div>';
		return html;
	};

	this.postPrependHeader = function(post_id) {
		var html;
		var _meta = Dsq.jsonData.posts[post_id];
		var userData = Dsq.jsonData['users'][_meta.user_key];
		
		html = ' \
		<table> \
			<tr> \
				<td id="dsq-header-avatar-' + post_id + '" class="dsq-header-avatar" onmouseover="Dsq.Post.dropProfile(' + post_id + ')"> \
					<a id="dsq-avatar-' + post_id + '" class="dsq-avatar" href="' + userData.url + '" onclick="Dsq.Popup.popProfile(' + post_id + '); return false;">'
					+ (Dsq.jsonData.forum.show_avatar
					? '<img src="' + Dsq.jsonData.users[_meta.user_key].avatar + '" alt="" />'
					: '')
				+ '</a> \
				</td> \
				<td class="dsq-comment-header-meta"> \
		';

		
		return html;
	};
	
	this.postAppendHeader = function(post_id) {
		var _meta = Dsq.jsonData.posts[post_id];
		var html;
		var parent_display_name = '';
		
		if(_meta.parent_post_id) {

			var _parent_meta = Dsq.jsonData.posts[_meta.parent_post_id];

			if (_parent_meta) {
				var parentUserData = Dsq.jsonData['users'][_parent_meta.user_key];
				parent_display_name = parentUserData.display_name;
			}
		}

		html = ' \
		<img src="http://media.disqus.com/images/themes/narcissus/moderator.png" class="dsq-moderator-star" title="Moderator" /> \
		<span class="dsq-comment-header-time"><a href="#comment-' + post_id + '" onclick="Dsq.Popup.permalink(' + post_id + ')" title="Permalink">' + (_meta.is_realtime ? Dsq.Strings.JUST_NOW : _meta.date) + '</a></span> '
		+ (_meta.parent_post_id && parent_display_name
			? '<a href="#comment-' + _meta.parent_post_id + '" title="Jump to comment">in reply to ' + parent_display_name + '</a>'
			: '')
		+ '</td> \
		<td id="dsq-like-pts-' + post_id + '" class="dsq-comment-header-likes">'
		+ (_meta.points
			? _meta.points + Dsq.Utils.pluralize(_meta.points, ' person', ' people') + ' liked this.'
			: '')
		+ '</td> \
		</tr> \
		</table> \
		';
		return html;
	};

	this.preBody = function(post_id) {
		var html = '';
		return html;
	};

	this.postFooter = function(post_id) {
		var html;
		var _meta = Dsq.jsonData.posts[post_id];
		if(_meta.killed || !_meta.approved) { return ''; }
		
		html = ' \
		<div class="dsq-comment-footer" id="dsq-comment-footer-' + post_id + '"> \
			<div class="dsq-comment-footer-left">'
				+ (Dsq.jsonData.request.is_moderator || Dsq.jsonData.request.is_global_moderator
					? '<a href="#" onclick="Dsq.Templates.moderateOptions(' + post_id+ '); return false">' + Dsq.Strings.MODERATE + '</a>'
					: '')
				+ '<a href="#" id="dsq-post-report-' + post_id + '" class="dsq-post-report" onclick="Dsq.Post.report(' + post_id + ', false); return false;">' + Dsq.Strings.FLAG + '</a> \
			</div> \
			<div class="dsq-comment-footer-right">'
				+ (_meta.votable 
					? '<span id="dsq-like-' + post_id + '" class="dsq-like">'
					+ (!_meta.up_voted
						? '<button class="dsq-button-small" onclick="Dsq.Post.rate(this, ' + post_id + ', 1)" >Like</button>'
						: 'You liked this.&nbsp;&nbsp;')
					+ '</span>'
					: '')
				+ (_meta.can_reply && !_meta.has_replies && _meta.from_request_user
					? '<button class="dsq-button-small dsq-post-edit" onclick="Dsq.Post.edit(this, ' + post_id + ')" >' + Dsq.Strings.EDIT + '</button>'
					: '')
				+ (_meta.can_reply
					? '<span class="dsq-comment-footer-reply" id="dsq-comment-footer-reply-' + post_id + '" onclick="Dsq.Post.toggleReply(' + post_id +', this)"> \
						<button class="dsq-button-small">' + Dsq.Strings.REPLY + '</button> \
						<button class="dsq-comment-footer-reply-tab">' + Dsq.Strings.REPLY + '</button><span></span> \
					</span>'
					: '')
			+ '</div> \
		</div> \
		';
		
		return html;
	};



	
	this.showRetweets = function(id, limit, element_id /* Optional */) {
		var source, html = '';

		for (var i = 0, reaction; reaction = Dsq.jsonData.reactions[i]; i++) {
			if (reaction.id === id) {
				source = reaction.retweets;
			}
		}

		if (source) {
			if (limit === 0) {
				limit = source.length;
			}

			for (var j = 0; j < limit; j++) {
				var rt = source[j];
				html += '<a href="' + rt.url + '">' + rt.author_name + '</a>'	+ ((j === (limit - 1)) ? '.' : ', ');
			}
		}

		if (element_id === undefined) {
			return html;
		}

		var element = document.getElementById(element_id);
		element.innerHTML = html;
		return element;
	};

	this.showMoreReactions = function(reactions, has_more, start, limit) {
		var link = document.getElementById('dsq-show-more-reactions');
		var container = link.parentNode;
		container.removeChild(link);

		for (var i = 0, reaction; reaction = reactions[i]; i++) {
			var el = Dsq.Templates.generateReactionHTML(reaction);
			if (el) {
				container.innerHTML += el;
			}
		}

		if (has_more) {
			var d = Dsq.jsonData.settings.disqus_url;
			var f = Dsq.jsonData.forum.url;
			var t = Dsq.jsonData.thread.id;
			var s = start;
			var l = limit;

			var handler = 'Dsq.Utils.execScript(\'' + d + '/forums/' + f + '/more_reactions.js?t=' + t + '&s=' + s + '&l=' + l + '\', true); return false;';
			container.innerHTML += '<li id="dsq-show-more-reactions" class="dsq-show-more-reactions"><button class="dsq-button-small" onclick="' + handler + '">Show more reactions</button></li>';
		}
	};

	this.generateReactionHTML = function(reaction) {
		if (reaction.body === null || reaction.body == '') {
			return;
		}

		if (reaction.author_name === '') {
			reaction.author_name = '&nbsp;';
		}

		if (reaction.url === '') {
			reaction.url = reaction.get_service_url;
		}

		var item = '<li class="dsq-comment dsq-reaction" id="dsq-reaction-' + reaction.id + '">'
			+ '<div class="dsq-comment-header"> \
			<table> \
			<tr> \
			<td class="dsq-header-avatar"> \
			';

		if (reaction.author_url && reaction.author_url !== '') {
			item += '<a target="_blank" href="' + reaction.author_url +'" class="dsq-avatar">';
		}

		if (reaction.avatar_url && reaction.avatar_url !== '') {
			item += '<img src="' + reaction.avatar_url + '"/>';
		} else {

			item += '<img src="' + Dsq.jsonData.media_url + '/images/noavatar92.png"/>';
		}

		var service_icon = (reaction.get_service_name == 'trackback' || reaction.get_service_name == 'pingback' ? 'rss' : reaction.get_service_name.replace(' ', ''));
		item += (reaction.author_url && reaction.author_url !== ''
				? '</a>'
				: '')
			+ '</td>'
			+ '<td><cite class="dsq-comment-cite">' + reaction.author_name + '</cite> <span class="dsq-comment-header-time">' + reaction.date_created + '</span></td>'
			+ '<td class="dsq-comment-header-likes"></td>'
			+ '</tr></table></div>' // end dsq-comment-header
			+ '<div class="dsq-reaction-header" \
				<table> \
					<tr> \
						<td class="dsq-reaction-header-left">'
							+ '<img class="dsq-service-icon" src="' + Dsq.jsonData.media_url + '/images/reactions/services/' + service_icon + '.png" />'
							+ ' From <a class="dsq-service-name" target="_blank" href="' + reaction.url + '">' + reaction.get_service_name + '</a> '
							+ 'via ' + (reaction.source == 'backtype' ? '<a href="http://backtype.com/">BackType</a>' : '<a href="' + reaction.source_url + '">UberVU</a>')
						+ '</td>'
						+ '<td class="dsq-reaction-header-right">';
			
			if(reaction.retweets) {
				var num_retweets = reaction.retweets.length;
				if (num_retweets > 0) {
					if (num_retweets == 1) {
						item += 'One more retweet from <a href="' + reaction.retweets[0].url + '">'  + reaction.retweets[0].author_name + '</a>';
					} else {
						item += (num_retweets + ' more retweets from ');
						item += '<span id="dsq-reaction-retweets-' + reaction.id + '">';
						var n_tweets = (num_retweets > 3) ? 3 : num_retweets;
						item += Dsq.Templates.showRetweets(reaction.id, n_tweets);
						if (n_tweets != num_retweets) {
							item += '</span> <a onclick="Dsq.Templates.showRetweets(' + reaction.id + ', 0, \'dsq-reaction-retweets-' + reaction.id + '\');'
								+ 'this.parentNode.removeChild(this); return false;" href="#">Show all</a>';
						}
					}
				}
			}	
			item += '</td></tr> \
			</table> \
			</div>' // end dsq-reaction-header
			+ '<div class="dsq-comment-body"> \
				<div class="dsq-comment-message">' + reaction.body + '</div>'
			+ '</div> \
			<div class="dsq-comment-footer"> \
				<div class="dsq-comment-footer-left"> \
				</div>'
				+ (Dsq.jsonData.request.is_moderator || Dsq.jsonData.request.is_global_moderator 
					? ' \
					<div class="dsq-comment-footer-right"> \
						<button class="dsq-button-small dsq-hide-reaction" onclick="Dsq.Reaction.hide(' + reaction.id + ')">Hide</button> \
					</div>'
					: '')
			+ '</div>'
		item += '</li>'; /* Reaction HTML ends */
		return item;
	};

	this.reactions = function() {
		var html, reaction;

		if (Dsq.jsonData.reactions === undefined || Dsq.jsonData.reactions.length === 0) {
			return '';
		}

		html = '';
		for (var i = 0; reaction = Dsq.jsonData.reactions[i]; i++) {
			var item = Dsq.Templates.generateReactionHTML(reaction);
			if (item) {
				html += item;
			}
		}

		if (Dsq.jsonData.has_more_reactions) {
			var d = Dsq.jsonData.settings.disqus_url;
			var f = Dsq.jsonData.forum.url;
			var t = Dsq.jsonData.thread.id;
			var s = Dsq.jsonData.reactions_start;
			var l = Dsq.jsonData.reactions_limit;

			var handler = 'Dsq.Utils.execScript(\'' + d + '/forums/' + f + '/more_reactions.js?t=' + t + '&s=' + s + '&l=' + l + '\', true); return false;';
			html += '<li id="dsq-show-more-reactions" class="dsq-show-more-reactions"><button class="dsq-button-small" onclick="' + handler + '">Show more reactions</button></li>';
		}

		return '<h3 id="dsq-reactions-title" class="dsq-h3-reactions">Reactions</h3><ul id="dsq-reactions" class="dsq-reactions">' + html + '</ul>';
	};
	
	this._popupGeneric = function(content) {
		return ' \
		<div class="dsq-popup-container"> \
			<table> \
				<tbody> \
					<tr> \
						<td class="dsq-popup-tl"></td><td class="dsq-popup-b"></td><td class="dsq-popup-tr"></td> \
					</tr> \
					<tr> \
						<td class="dsq-popup-b"></td> \
						<td class="dsq-popup-body"> \
							<div class="dsq-popup-content"> \
								<div class="dsq-popup-title"> \
									<button class="dsq-button-small" style="float:right" onclick="Dsq.Popup._closePopup(null, true)">Close</button>' 
									+ content['header'] 
								+ '</div>'
								+ content['body']
							+ '</div> \
							<div class="powered-by"><a href="http://disqus.com/comments/">Powered by <img src="http://media.disqus.com/images/embed/disqus-logo.png" alt="Disqus Comments" style="margin-bottom:-5px" /></a></div> \
						</td> \
						<td class="dsq-popup-b"></td> \
					</tr> \
					<tr> \
						<td class="dsq-popup-bl"></td><td class="dsq-popup-b"></td><td class="dsq-popup-br"></td> \
					</tr> \
				</tbody> \
			</table> \
		</div> \
		';
	};



	
	this.chooseSubscribe = function(post_id) {

		var pid = post_id ? '-' + post_id : '';
		var menu = Dsq.$('dsq-subscribe-menu' + pid);
		
		menu.style.display = menu.style.display == 'block' ? 'none' : 'block';
		
	};
	
	this.setSubscribe = function(value, el, post_id) {

		var pid = post_id ? '-' + post_id : '';
		var input = Dsq.$('dsq-subscribe-on-post' + pid);
		var select = Dsq.$('dsq-subscribe-select' + pid);
		var menu = Dsq.$('dsq-subscribe-menu' + pid);
		
		select.innerHTML = el.innerHTML;
		input.value = value;
		this.chooseSubscribe(post_id);
	};
	
	this.getFormFields = function(post_id) {

		var fields = {};
		var pid = post_id ? '-' + post_id : '';
		var name = Dsq.$('dsq-field-name' + pid);
		var email = Dsq.$('dsq-field-email' + pid);
		var website = Dsq.$('dsq-field-website' + pid);
		var username = Dsq.$('dsq-field-username' + pid);
		var password = Dsq.$('dsq-field-password' + pid);

		fields = {
			'name': name,
			'email': email,
			'website': website,
			'username': username,
			'password': password
		}
		
		return fields;
	}
	
	this.validateFields = function(post_id) {
		
		if(Dsq.jsonData.request.is_authenticated) { return true; }
		
		var fields = Dsq.Templates.getFormFields(post_id);
		
		var nameField = fields.name;
		var websiteField = fields.website;
		var emailField = fields.email;
		
		websiteField.value = (websiteField.value == Dsq.Templates.placeholder['website']) ? '' : websiteField.value;
		
		var v = [{

			validator: Dsq.Validators.name,
			value: nameField.value
		}, {

			validator: Dsq.Validators.email,
			value: emailField.value
		}, {

			validator: Dsq.Validators.url,
			value: websiteField.value
		}];
		
		return Dsq.Validators.validate(v, function(e) { Dsq.Popup.popModal(e, 'Oops...') } );
	};
	
	this.checkExistingUser = function(post_id) {
		var fields = Dsq.Templates.getFormFields(post_id);		
		Dsq.Popup.loading(post_id);
		
		if (post_id) {
			Dsq.frames['reply_' + post_id].getUserByEmail(fields.email.value);
		} else {
			Dsq.frames['reply_0'].getUserByEmail(fields.email.value);
		}
	};

	this.validateAuth = function(el_clicked, post_id, auth_choice) {
		var fields = Dsq.Templates.getFormFields(post_id);
		var email = fields.email ? fields.email.value : '';
		var username = fields.username ? fields.username.value : '';
		var password = fields.password ? fields.password.value : '';
		
		Dsq.Templates.setLoadingButton(el_clicked, post_id);
		
		if (post_id) {
			Dsq.frames['reply_' + post_id].validateAuth(auth_choice, email, username, password);
		} else {
			Dsq.frames['reply_0'].validateAuth(auth_choice, email, username, password);
		}
	};

	this.lightboxUpdateEmail = function(post_id, new_email) {
		var fields = Dsq.Templates.getFormFields(post_id);
		fields.email.value = new_email;
	};

	this.lightboxAuthenticate = function(post_id, auth_choice, auth_data) {
		var title, body;
		var pid = post_id ? '-' + post_id : '';

		if(typeof(auth_data) == 'undefined') {
			var auth_data = Dsq.Templates.getFormFields(post_id);
		}

		d = auth_data;

		switch(auth_choice) {
			case 'register':
				var suggestedUsername = d.name.value.replace(/[^a-zA-Z0-9-]/g,'').toLowerCase();
			
				title = Dsq.jsonData.forum.allow_anon_post ? 'Optional:' : 'Required:';
				title += ' Register a <img src="http://media.disqus.com/images/embed/disqus-profile.png" alt=Disqus Profile" />';

				body = ' \
				<ul class="dsq-lightbox-register-reasons"> \
				<li>Verify your comments</li> \
				<li>Edit and delete comments</li> \
				<li>Manage comments and replies</li> \
				</ul> \
				';

				body += ' \
				<div class="dsq-lightbox-auth-fields"> \
					<table> \
						<tr> \
							<td>Email</td> \
							<td><input type="text" value="' + d.email.value + '" onchange="Dsq.Templates.lightboxUpdateEmail(' + post_id + ', this.value)" /><div id="dsq-email-errors' + pid + '"></div></td> \
						</tr> \
						<tr> \
							<td>Username</td> \
							<td><input id="dsq-field-username' + pid + '" type="text" value="' + suggestedUsername + '"/><div id="dsq-username-errors' + pid + '"></div></td> \
						</tr> \
						<tr> \
							<td>Password</td> \
							<td><input id="dsq-field-password' + pid + '" type="password" /><div id="dsq-password-errors' + pid + '"></div></td> \
						</tr> \
					</table> \
					<div class="dsq-lightbox-switch-auth"><a href="#" onclick="Dsq.Templates.lightboxAuthenticate(' + post_id + ',\'login\'); return false">Login instead</a></div> \
				</div> \
				<div id="dsq-lightbox-errors' + pid + '" class="dsq-lightbox-errors"></div> \
				<div class="dsq-lightbox-submit"> \
					<div class="dsq-lightbox-auth-post"><button class="dsq-button" onclick="Dsq.Templates.validateAuth(this, ' + post_id + ',\'' + auth_choice + '\')">Register and Post comment</button></div>'
					+ (Dsq.jsonData.forum.allow_anon_post
						? '<div class="dsq-lightbox-auth-skip"><button class="dsq-button-small" onclick="Dsq.Templates.postComment(' + post_id + ', this, true)">Just post as a Guest</button></div>'
						: '')
				+ '</div> \
				';
				break;
			case 'login':
				title = Dsq.jsonData.forum.allow_anon_post ? 'Optional:' : 'Required:';
				title += ' Login to your <img src="http://media.disqus.com/images/embed/disqus-profile.png" alt=Disqus Profile" />';
				body = '';
				
				if(d.avatar_url) {
					body += '<div class="dsq-lightbox-recognized"><table><tr>';
					body += '<td><img src="' + d.avatar_url + '" alt="" /></td>';
					body += '<td><span class="dsq-badge ' + (d.verified ? 'dsq-badge-verified' : 'dsq-badge-registered') + '">' + (d.verified ? 'Verified' : 'Registered') + '</span></td>';
					body += '<td>Hey <strong>' + d.display_name + '</strong>, is that you? Login below to claim this comment.';
					body += '</tr></table></div>';
				}

				body += ' \
				<div class="dsq-lightbox-auth-fields"> \
					<table> \
						<tr> \
							<td>Username or Email</td> \
							<td><input id="dsq-field-username' + pid + '" type="text" value="' + (d.avatar_url ? d.username : '') + '" /></td> \
						</tr> \
						<tr> \
							<td>Password <a href="http://disqus.com/forgot" target="_blank">(cannot log in?)</a></td> \
							<td><input id="dsq-field-password' + pid + '" type="password" /></td> \
						</tr> \
					</table> \
					<div class="dsq-lightbox-switch-auth"><a href="#" onclick="Dsq.Templates.lightboxAuthenticate(' + post_id + ',\'register\'); return false">Register instead</a></div> \
				</div> \
				<div id="dsq-lightbox-errors' + pid + '" class="dsq-lightbox-errors"></div> \
				<div class="dsq-lightbox-submit"> \
					<div class="dsq-lightbox-auth-post"><button class="dsq-button" onclick="Dsq.Templates.validateAuth(this, ' + post_id + ',\'' + auth_choice + '\')">Login and Post comment</button></div>'
					+ (Dsq.jsonData.forum.allow_anon_post
						? '<div class="dsq-lightbox-auth-skip"><button class="dsq-button-small" onclick="Dsq.Templates.postComment(' + post_id + ', this, true)">Just post as a Guest</button></div>'
						: '')
				+ '</div> \
				';
				break;
			default:
				break;
		}
		Dsq.Popup.lightbox(body, title, post_id);
		Dsq.$('dsq-field-username' + pid).focus();
	};
	
	this.buttonsToRestore = [];
	this.setLoadingButton = function(btn, post_id) {
		var pid = post_id ? '-' + post_id : '';
		if (btn) {

			var loadingBtn = document.createElement('button');
			loadingBtn.id = btn.id + '-loading';
			loadingBtn.innerHTML = '<img src="http://media.disqus.com/images/loading-lite.gif" alt="" /> Just a moment...';
			loadingBtn.className = btn.className + ' dsq-post-loading';
			btn.parentNode.appendChild(loadingBtn);
			btn.style.display = 'none';
			var cancelBtn = Dsq.$('dsq-cancel-button' + pid);
			if(cancelBtn) { cancelBtn.style.display = 'none'; this.buttonsToRestore.push(cancelBtn); }
			this.buttonsToRestore.push(btn);
		} else {

			var buttons = this.buttonsToRestore;
			for(var i = 0; i < buttons.length; i++) {
				buttons[i].style.display = 'inline';
				Dsq.Utils.deleteNode(Dsq.$(buttons[i].id + '-loading'));
			}
		}
		
	};

	this.postComment = function(post_id, el_clicked, force, auth_choice) {
		var append_id = post_id ? '-' + post_id : '';
		var fields = Dsq.Templates.getFormFields(post_id);

		if (Dsq.Templates.validateFields(post_id)) {

			if (!Dsq.jsonData.request.is_authenticated && !force &&
				((!Dsq.Utils.readCookie('skipped_auth') && !disqus_skip_auth && !Dsq.jsonData.forum.disqus_auth_disabled) || !Dsq.jsonData.forum.allow_anon_post)) {
				Dsq.Templates.checkExistingUser(post_id);
				return false;
			}
			var params = [];
			if (!Dsq.jsonData.request.is_authenticated) {
				params.push(fields.name.value,
					fields.email.value,
					fields.website.value);

				if (auth_choice == 'login' || auth_choice == 'register') {
					params.push({
						auth_choice: auth_choice,
						username: fields.username.value,
						password: fields.password.value,
						email: fields.email.value
					});
				} else {
					params.push(null);
				}

				params.push(null /* sharing options */, Dsq.$('dsq-subscribe-on-post' + append_id).value);
			} else {
				var service_checked = function(name) {
					var el = Dsq.$('dsq-sharing-' + name + append_id);
					return (el !== null && el.checked === true) ? '1' : '0';
				};
				params.push(null, null, null, null, {
					tw: service_checked('twitter'),
					fb: service_checked('facebook'),
					tr: service_checked('tumblr'),
					wp: service_checked('wordpress'),
					mt: service_checked('movabletype'),
					tp: service_checked('typepad'),
					yh: service_checked('yahoo')
				});
			}

			var frame = Dsq.frames['reply_' + (post_id ? post_id : 0)];
			frame.post.apply(frame, params);

			if (el_clicked) {
				Dsq.Templates.setLoadingButton(el_clicked, post_id);
			}
			
			if (force) {
				Dsq.Utils.createCookie('skipped_auth', true);	
			}
			
		} else {
			return false;
		}
	};

	this.editComment = function(el_clicked, post_id) {
		var edited_message = Dsq.$('dsq-edit-textarea-' + post_id).value;

		Dsq.Templates.setLoadingButton(el_clicked, post_id);
		Dsq.frames['edit_' + post_id].edit(post_id, edited_message);
	};

	this.toggleEdit = function(post_id) {
		var body = Dsq.$('dsq-comment-body-' + post_id);
		var message = Dsq.$('dsq-comment-message-' + post_id);

		if (!Dsq.Post.stateEditToggled[post_id]) {


			message.style.display = 'none';
			if (Dsq.$('dsq-edit-' + post_id)) {
				Dsq.$('dsq-edit-' + post_id).style.display = 'block';
			} else {

				var edit_area = document.createElement('div');
				edit_area.id = 'dsq-edit-' + post_id;
				edit_area.className = 'dsq-edit dsq-textarea';
				edit_area.innerHTML = ' \
				<div class="dsq-textarea-wrapper"> \
					<textarea class="dsq-edit-textarea" id="dsq-edit-textarea-' + post_id + '">' + message.innerHTML + '</textarea> \
				</div> \
				<div class="dsq-save-edit"> \
					<button onclick="Dsq.Templates.editComment(this, ' + post_id + ')" class="dsq-button-small">Save Edit</button> \
				</div> \
				<div id="dsq-edit-iframe-' + post_id + '" style="display: none"></div> \
				';

				body.appendChild(edit_area);

				if (!Dsq.frames['edit_' + post_id]) {
					var _meta = Dsq.jsonData.posts[post_id];
					Dsq.frames['edit_' + post_id] = new Dsq.ReplyFrame(Dsq.$('dsq-edit-iframe-' + post_id), post_id);
					Dsq.frames['edit_' + post_id].init();
					Dsq.frames['edit_' + post_id].setState(post_id, _meta.depth);
				}
			}
		} else {

			message.style.display = 'block';
			Dsq.$('dsq-edit-' + post_id).style.display = 'none';
		}
		
		Dsq.Post.stateEditToggled[post_id] = !Dsq.Post.stateEditToggled[post_id];
	};
	
	this.edit = function(el, post_id) {

		Dsq.Templates.toggleEdit(post_id);
	};

	this.toggleReply = function(post_id, button) {
		
		if(!this.stateReplyToggled[post_id]) {

			if (Dsq.$('dsq-reply-post-' + post_id)) {
				Dsq.$('dsq-append-post-' + post_id).style.display = 'block';
			} else {
				Dsq.$('dsq-append-post-' + post_id).innerHTML = Dsq.Templates.postBox(post_id);
				var container = Dsq.$('dsq-textarea-wrapper-' + post_id);
				if (!Dsq.frames['reply_' + post_id] && container) {
					var _meta = Dsq.jsonData.posts[post_id];
					Dsq.frames['reply_' + post_id] = new Dsq.ReplyFrame(container, post_id);
					Dsq.frames['reply_' + post_id].init(function() {

						Dsq.$('dsq-append-post-' + post_id).innerHTML = Dsq.Templates.postBox(post_id, true);
						Dsq.$('dsq-form-area-' + post_id).innerHTML = '';

						var theme = (typeof disqus_frame_theme == 'undefined') ? 'default' : disqus_frame_theme;
						Dsq.Iframes.showReplyIframeInContainer(Dsq.$('dsq-form-area-' + post_id), post_id, {theme: theme});

					});
					Dsq.frames['reply_' + post_id].setState(post_id, _meta.depth);
				}
			}
			Dsq.$('dsq-append-post-' + post_id).className = 'dsq-append-post';
			Dsq.$('dsq-comment-footer-reply-' + post_id).className = 'dsq-comment-footer-reply-active';
			
		} else {

			Dsq.$('dsq-append-post-' + post_id).style.display = 'none';
			Dsq.$('dsq-append-post-' + post_id).className = '';
			Dsq.$('dsq-comment-footer-reply-' + post_id).className = 'dsq-comment-footer-reply';
		}
		
		this.stateReplyToggled[post_id] = !this.stateReplyToggled[post_id];

		if(Dsq.Utils.ie && this.stateReplyToggled[post_id]) {

		}

		Dsq.Events.fire(Dsq.Events.REPLY_IFRAME_TOGGLED, {
			postId: post_id,
			opened: this.stateReplyToggled[post_id]
		});
	};
	
	this.moderateOptions = function(post_id) {
		var _meta = Dsq.jsonData.posts[post_id];
		var userData = Dsq.jsonData['users'][_meta.user_key];
		
		if(!Dsq.jsonData.request.is_moderator && !Dsq.jsonData.request.is_global_moderator) { return false; }

		var html;
		
		html = ' \
		<div class="dsq-moderate-options"> \
		<table>'
		+ (_meta.email ? '<tr><td>Email</td><td>' + _meta.email + '</td></tr>' : '')
		+ (_meta.ip ? '<tr><td>IP address</td><td>' + _meta.ip + '</td></tr>' : '')
		+ '<tr> \
			<td>Actions</td> \
			<td><ul>'
			+ (Dsq.jsonData.request.moderator_can_edit
				? '<li><a href="#" onclick="Dsq.Post.edit(this, ' + post_id + '); Dsq.Popup._closePopup(null, true); return false;">Edit Comment</a></li>'
				: '')
			+ '<li><a href="#" onclick="Dsq.Post.removePost(' + post_id + ', 1); Dsq.Popup._closePopup(null, true); return false;">Delete Comment</a></li> \
			<li><a href="#" onclick="Dsq.Post.reportSpam(' + post_id + '); Dsq.Popup._closePopup(null, true); return false;">Mark Spam</a></li> \
			<li><a href="#" onclick="Dsq.Popup.blacklist(' + post_id + '); return false">Block User</a></li> \
			</ul></td> \
			</table> \
		</div> \
		';
		
		html += '<p>Go to the full <a href="http://disqus.com/comments/moderate/" target="_blank">moderate panel</a> for more options.</p>';
		
		return Dsq.Popup.popModal(html, 'Moderate Options', post_id);
	};
	
	this.placeholder = {
		'class': 'dsq-placeholder',
		'name': Dsq.Strings.NAME,
		'email': Dsq.Strings.EMAIL,
		'website': Dsq.Strings.WEBSITE + ' (' + Dsq.Strings.OPTIONAL.toLowerCase() + ')'
	};
	
	this.handlePlaceholder = function(evt, el, key) {
		var placeholder = Dsq.Templates.placeholder[key];
		var className = Dsq.Templates.placeholder['class'];
		
		switch(evt.type) {
			case 'focus':
				if(el.value == placeholder) {
					el.value = '';
					el.className = '';
				}
				break;

			case 'blur':
				if(el.value == '') {
					el.value = placeholder;
					el.className = className;
				}
				break;
			default:
				break;
		}
	};
	
	this.paginate = function(page, el_clicked) {

		var extra_params = '';

		if(typeof disqus_per_page != 'undefined') {
			extra_params += '&per_page=' + disqus_per_page;
		}
		if(typeof disqus_sort != 'undefined') {
			extra_params += '&sort=' + disqus_sort;
		}

		Dsq.$('dsq-pagination').innerHTML += '<img src="http://media.disqus.com/images/loading-small.gif">';
		
		if(el_clicked) {
			Dsq.Templates.setLoadingButton(el_clicked);
		}
		
		Dsq.Utils.execScript('http://disqus.com/forums/jackandjillpolitics/thread.js'
			+ '?slug='	+ 'i_have_questions_about_gay_marriage'
			+ '&p='		+ page
			+ extra_params);
	};
	
	
	this.rate = function(el, id, vote) {


		if(Dsq.jsonData.request.is_authenticated || Dsq.jsonData.forum.allow_anon_votes) {
			if(vote == 1) {
				Dsq.$('dsq-like-' + id).innerHTML = '<img src="http://media.disqus.com/images/loading-small.gif">';
			}
			Dsq.Utils.execScript('http://disqus.com/forums/jackandjillpolitics/vote.js'
				+ '?post_id='    + id
				+ '&vote='        + vote);
		} else {
			Dsq.Popup.login('To rate, please log in');
		}
	};

	this.voted = function(post_id, points, vote) {

		Dsq.$('dsq-like-pts-' + post_id).innerHTML = points + Dsq.Utils.pluralize(points, ' person', ' people') + ' liked this.';

		if(vote) {
			Dsq.$('dsq-like-' + post_id).innerHTML = 'You liked this.&nbsp;&nbsp;';
		}
	};




	this.postComment_onSuccess = function(response, parent_post_id, post_id) {
		var approved = response.message.post_meta.approved;

		if (parent_post_id) {
			Dsq.Post.toggleReply(parent_post_id);
		}

		Dsq.Popup._closePopup(null, true);
		
		if (approved) {
			Dsq.Post.incrementPostCount();
			Dsq.Post.outlineComment(post_id);
		} else {			
			var unapproved_msg = 'Thanks for posting!\
	 Your comment must be approved by a moderator before appearing here.\
			';
			Dsq.Popup.popModal(unapproved_msg, 'Comment awaiting approval', post_id);
		}

		var sharing_results = response.message.sharing_results;
		var sharing_errors = '';
		for (var service in sharing_results) {
			if (sharing_results.hasOwnProperty(service) === true) {
				if (sharing_results[service].error === true) {
					sharing_errors += service + ', ';
				}
			}
		}

		if (sharing_results.facebook && sharing_results.facebook.callback) {
			FB.ensureInit(function() {
				FB.Connect.streamPublish('', sharing_results.facebook.attachment);
			});
		}

		if (sharing_errors !== '') {
			var message = 'Your comment was posted, but there were errors sharing with the following connections: ';
			message += sharing_errors.replace(/,\s$/, '');
			message += '<p><a href="' + Dsq.jsonData.settings.disqus_url + '/profile/connections" target="_blank">Configure your connections here</a></p>'
			Dsq.Popup.popModal(message, 'Sharing options');
		}

		Dsq.Templates.setLoadingButton(false);
	};

	this.postComment_onFailure = function(response, parent_post_id, post_id) {

		Dsq.Templates.setLoadingButton(false);
	};
};




// TODO: It might be faster to use string methods to find all <li (...) </li> blocks and pass to Dsq.PostHandler manually.
Dsq.CommentsHandler = function(str, head, post_id, content, tail, offset, s) {
	var prepend_post = Dsq.Templates.prependPost(post_id);
	var append_post = Dsq.Templates.appendPost(post_id);

	content = content.replace(Dsq.POST_RE, Dsq.PostHandler);
	Dsq.Templates.postLoopCounter++;
	head = Dsq.Templates.Filters.commentContainer(post_id, head);
	return prepend_post + head + content + tail + append_post;
};

Dsq.PostHandler = function(str, h_head, post_id, h_content, h_tail, b_head, b_content, b_tail, offset, s) {
	var prepend_header = Dsq.Templates.postPrependHeader(post_id);
	var append_header = Dsq.Templates.postAppendHeader(post_id);
	var prepend_body = Dsq.Templates.preBody(post_id);
	var append_body = Dsq.Templates.postBody(post_id);
	var append_footer = Dsq.Templates.postFooter(post_id);

	b_content = b_content.replace(Dsq.POST_BODY_RE, Dsq.PostBodyHandler);
	return h_head + prepend_header + h_content + append_header + h_tail + b_head + prepend_body + b_content + append_body + b_tail + append_footer;
};

Dsq.PostBodyHandler = function(str, head, post_id, content, tail, offset, s) {
	content = Dsq.Templates.Filters.commentContent(post_id, content);
	return head + content + tail;
};

Dsq.MediaPostHandler = function(str, args, offset, s) {
	args = args.split(' ');
	if(args[0] == 'seesmic') {
		return '<br />' + Dsq.Templates.mediaSeesmic(args[1], args[2]);
	}
	return '';
};


/**
 * Shorcuts
 */
Dsq.$ = function(element) { return document.getElementById(element); };
Dsq.$b = document.body || document.getElementsByTagName('body')[0];


/**
 * Dsq.Debug: Logging functions.
 */

Dsq.Debug = new function() {this.log=function(s){};this.profile=function(f){if(typeof f == 'function')return f();else return eval(f);};};


/**
 * Dsq.Urls: URL paths
 */
Dsq.Urls = new function() {
	this.LOGIN = '/profile/login/';
	this.LOGOUT = '/logout/';
	this.REPLY = 'http://jackandjillpolitics.disqus.com/i_have_questions_about_gay_marriage/reply.html';
	this.REQUEST_USER_PROFILE = '/AnonymousUser/';
	this.REQUEST_USER_AVATAR = 'http://media.disqus.com/images/noavatar92.png';
};
// Dsq.Urls

/**
 * Dsq.Validators: Validation for form fields
 */
Dsq.Validators = new function() {
	this.VALID_EMAIL_RE = /^[a-z0-9\-\_\+]+(\.[a-z0-9\-\_\+]+)*\@(([a-z0-9\-\_\+]+(\.[a-z0-9\-\_\+]+)*)+\.[a-z]{2,}|([0-9]+\.){3}[0-9]+)$/i;
	this.name = function(name) {
		var error = false;

		if(typeof Dsq.Templates.placeholder !== 'undefined' &&
		   name == Dsq.Templates.placeholder.name) {
			error = true;
		}
		if(name.length <= 1) {
			error = true;
		}

		if(error) {
			return "Please enter a name to comment.";
		} else {
			return true;
		}
	};
	this.email = function(addr) {
		if(Dsq.Validators.VALID_EMAIL_RE.test(addr)) {
			return true;
		} else {
			return "Please enter a valid email to comment.";
		}
	};
	this.url = function(addr) {
		if(!addr || addr.indexOf('.') != -1) {
			return true;
		} else {
			return "Please check your website URL (this field is optional).";
		}
	};

	this.validate = function(bulk_validation, failure_callback) {
		failure_callback = failure_callback || function(e){ alert(e); };

		for(var i = 0; i < bulk_validation.length; i++) {
			v = bulk_validation[i];
			ret = v.validator(v.value);
			if(ret !== true) {
				failure_callback(ret);
				return false;
			}
		}
		return true;
	};
};

/**
 * Dsq.Utils: Generic utility functions.
 */
Dsq.Utils = new function() {
	this.ie = /msie/i.test(navigator.userAgent) && !/opera/i.test(navigator.userAgent);
	this.ie7 = (document.all && !window.opera && window.XMLHttpRequest) ? true : false;
	this.ie6 = (!window.XMLHttpRequest) ? true: false;
	this.webkit = navigator.userAgent.indexOf('AppleWebKit/') >= 0;
	this.gebiFromElementCollectionCache = {};
	this._styleSheet = null;

	this.gebiFromElement = function(el, id, tag) {
		// This only method only helps IE.
		if(!this.ie) {
			return Dsq.$(id);
		} else {
			var cacheKey = el.id + '-' + tag;
			tag = tag || 'div';
			if(typeof this.gebiFromElementCollectionCache[cacheKey] != 'undefined') {
				collection = this.gebiFromElementCollectionCache[cacheKey];
			} else {
				collection = el.getElementsByTagName(tag);
				this.gebiFromElementCollectionCache[cacheKey] = collection;
			}

			for(var i = 0; i < collection.length; i++) {
				if(collection[i].id == id) {
					return collection[i];
				}
			}
			return null;
		}
	};

	this.execOnReady = function(func) {
		var node = document.createElement('document:ready');
		try {
			node.doScroll('left');
			func();
			node = null;
		} catch(err) {
			setTimeout(function() { Dsq.Utils.execOnReady(func); }, 10);
		}
	};


	// Courtesy of http://www.quirksmode.org/js/cookies.html
	this.createCookie = function(name,value,days) {
		if (days) {
			var date = new Date();
			date.setTime(date.getTime()+(days*24*60*60*1000));
			var expires = "; expires="+date.toGMTString();
		}
		else var expires = "";
		document.cookie = name+"="+value+expires+"; path=/";
	};

	this.readCookie = function(name) {
		var nameEQ = name + "=";
		var ca = document.cookie.split(';');
		for(var i=0;i < ca.length;i++) {
			var c = ca[i];
			while (c.charAt(0)==' ') c = c.substring(1,c.length);
			if (c.indexOf(nameEQ) == 0) return c.substring(nameEQ.length,c.length);
		}
		return null;
	};

	this.eraseCookie = function(name) {
		Dsq.Utils.createCookie(name,"",-1);
	};

	this.deleteNode = function(node) {
		if(node) {
			this.deleteChildren(node);
			if(typeof node.outerHTML != 'undefined') { node.outerHTML = ''; }
			else if(node.parentNode) { node.parentNode.removeChild(node); }
			delete node;
		}
	};

	this.deleteChildren = function(node) {
		if(node) {
			for(var x = node.childNodes.length-1; x >= 0; x--) {
				var childNode = node.childNodes[x];
				if(childNode.hasChildNodes()) { this.deleteChildren(childNode); }
				if(typeof childNode.outerHTML != 'undefined') { childNode.outerHTML = ''; }
				else node.removeChild(childNode);
				delete childNode;
			}
		}
	};

	this.findPos = function(obj) {
		var curleft = 0;
		var curtop = 0;
		if (obj.offsetParent) {
			do {
				curleft += obj.offsetLeft;
				curtop += obj.offsetTop;
			} while (obj = obj.offsetParent);
		}
		return [curleft,curtop];
	};

	this.getWindowSize = function() {
		var windowWidth = -1;
		var windowHeight = -1;

		if(typeof(window.innerWidth) == 'number') { //Non-IE
			windowWidth = window.innerWidth;
			windowHeight = window.innerHeight;
		} else if(document.documentElement) { // IE 6+ in 'standards compliant mode'
			windowWidth = document.documentElement.clientWidth || document.body.clientWidth;
			windowHeight = document.documentElement.clientHeight || document.body.clientHeight;
		}

		return [windowWidth, windowHeight];
	}

	this.getScrollPos = function() {
		var scrollWidth, scrollTop;

		if(document.documentElement && (document.documentElement.scrollTop || document.documentElement.scrollWidth)) {
			scrollWidth = document.documentElement.scrollWidth;
			// IE is weird here.  If no doctype is provided, document.body.scrollTop is 0,
			// otherwise document.documentElement.scrollTop is 0.
			scrollTop = document.documentElement.scrollTop || document.body.scrollTop;
		} else if(document.body.scrollTop && document.body.scrollWidth) {
			scrollWidth = document.body.scrollWidth;
			scrollTop = document.body.scrollTop;
		}

		return [scrollWidth, scrollTop];
	}

	this.addEventListener = function(instance, eventName, listener) {
		var listenerFn = listener;
		if (instance.addEventListener) {
			instance.addEventListener(eventName, listenerFn, false);
		} else if (instance.attachEvent) {
			listenerFn = function() {
				listener(window.event);
			};
			instance.attachEvent("on" + eventName, listenerFn);
		} else {
			throw new Error("Event registration not supported");
		}
		return {
			instance: instance,
			name: eventName,
			listener: listenerFn
		};
	};

	this.removeEventListener = function(event) {
		var instance = event.instance;
		if (instance.removeEventListener) {
			instance.removeEventListener(event.name, event.listener, false);
		} else if (instance.detachEvent) {
			instance.detachEvent("on" + event.name, event.listener);
		}
	};

	this.fixIframesIE = function(id) {
		var disqusThread = Dsq.$(disqus_container_id);
		var iframes = disqusThread.getElementsByTagName('iframe');

		if(id) {
			var container = Dsq.$(id);
		} else {
			var container = Dsq.$('dsq-content');
		}

		for(i = 0; i < iframes.length; i++) {
			if (container) {
				iframes[i].style.width = container.offsetWidth;
			}
		}
	};

	this.getElementsByClassName = function(oElm, strTagName, strClassName) {
	/* Credit: Jonathan Snook [http://www.snook.ca/jonathan], Robert Nyman [http://www.robertnyman.com] */
		var arrElements = (strTagName == "*" && oElm.all)? oElm.all : oElm.getElementsByTagName(strTagName);
		var arrReturnElements = new Array();
		strClassName = strClassName.replace(/\-/g, "\\-");
		var oRegExp = new RegExp("(^|\\s)" + strClassName + "(\\s|$)");
		var oElement;
		for(var i = 0; i < arrElements.length; i++) {
			oElement = arrElements[i];
			if(oRegExp.test(oElement.className)) {
				arrReturnElements.push(oElement);
			}
		}
		return (arrReturnElements);
	};

	this.postToUrl = function(url, post_data, opt_redirect) {
		var form = document.createElement('form');
		var iframe_container = document.createElement('div');
		var id = 'dsq-temp-iframe-' + (new Date()).getTime();

		form.method = 'POST';
		form.action = url;
		if (!opt_redirect) {
			form.target = id;
		}
		iframe_container.innerHTML = '<iframe style="display:none" name="' + id + '" id="' + id + '"></iframe>';

		for(var key in post_data) {
			if(post_data.hasOwnProperty(key)) {
				var input = document.createElement('input');
				input.name = key;
				input.type = 'hidden';
				input.value = post_data[key];

				form.appendChild(input);
			}
		}

		Dsq.$b.appendChild(iframe_container);
		Dsq.$b.appendChild(form);
		form.submit();
	};

	// Strips integer id from id of element in the form ('some-id-###')
	this.extractId = function(e) {
		var chunks = e.id.split('-');
		if(chunks.length <= 1) {
			return 0;
		} else {
			return parseInt(chunks[chunks.length-1]);
		}
	};

	this.getStyle = function(el, styleProp) {
		if(el.currentStyle) {
			var y = el.currentStyle[styleProp];
		} else if(window.getComputedStyle) {
			var y = document.defaultView.getComputedStyle(el, null).getPropertyValue(styleProp);
		}

		if(y == 'transparent' || y == '') {
			this.getStyle(el.parentNode, styleProp);
		} else {
			return y;
		}
	};

	this.execScript = function(url, append_qs, container) {
		var script = document.createElement('script');
		append_qs = typeof append_qs == 'undefined' ? true : append_qs;
		container = container || Dsq.container;

		if(append_qs) {
			var j = (url.indexOf('?') >= 0) ? '&' : '?';
			url += j + (new Date()).getTime();
		}
		script.type = 'text/javascript';
		script.charset = 'UTF-8';
		script.src = url;
		container.appendChild(script);
		return script;
	};

	this.pluralize = function(num, singular, plural) {
		return (num != 1) ? plural || 's' : singular || '';
	};

	this.getRequestParams = function(queryString /* optional */) {
		var pairs, tuple;
		var params = {};

		queryString = queryString || window.location.search.substring(1);
		pairs = queryString.split('&');

		for (var i = 0, pair; pair = pairs[i]; i++) {
			tuple = pair.split('=');
			params[tuple[0]] = (tuple[1] || true);
		}

		return params;
	};

	this.addCssRule = function(selector, styleText, index) {
		var stylesheet;
		index = index || 0;

		if(!this._styleSheet) {
			var styleEl = document.createElement('style');
			document.getElementsByTagName('head')[0].appendChild(styleEl);
			this._styleSheet = styleEl.sheet;
			if(!this._styleSheet) {
				// IE does not like our newly created stylesheet.
				this._styleSheet = document.styleSheets[document.styleSheets.length-1];
			}
		}
		stylesheet = this._styleSheet;

		if(stylesheet.insertRule) {
			var ruleText = selector + ' { ' + styleText + ' }';
			if(index == -1) {
				index = stylesheet.cssRules.length;
			}
			stylesheet.insertRule(ruleText, index);
		} else if(stylesheet.addRule) {
			stylesheet.addRule(selector, styleText, index);
		}
	};

	this.forEachIn = function(obj, callback) {
		for(var key in obj) {
			if(obj.hasOwnProperty(key)) {
				callback(key, obj[key]);
			}
		}
	};

	this._interpolateGlobalContext = {
		// values that get used a lot and are global to the request
		'profile_url': Dsq.Urls.REQUEST_USER_PROFILE,

		'disqus_url': Dsq.jsonData.settings.disqus_url,
		'media_url': Dsq.jsonData.settings.media_url,
		'request_username': Dsq.jsonData.request.username,
		'request_display_username': Dsq.jsonData.request.display_username,
		'forum_name': Dsq.jsonData.forum.name
	};

	this.renderFromContextStack = function(key, contexts) {
		// Returns the first instance of `key` in the array of objects `contexts` or else ''
		for (var i=0; i<contexts.length; i++) {
			if (contexts[i][key] !== undefined) {
				return String(contexts[i][key]);
			}
		}
		throw new Error('key ' + key + ' not found in context');
	};

	var that = this;
	this.interpolate = function(fmt, opt_localContext) {
		// Interpolate `fmt` named-format string with an assumed global context.
		// Based on `interpolate` in django.views.i18n
		var contextStack = [opt_localContext || {}, that._interpolateGlobalContext];
		return fmt.replace(/%\(\w+\)s/g, function(match){
			return that.renderFromContextStack(match.slice(2,-2), contextStack);
		});
	};

	this.stripTags = function(s) {
		// Removes HTML tags from `s`
		return s.replace(/(<([^>]+)>)/g,"");

	};

	this.assert = function(b) {
		if (!b) {
			throw new Error('Assertion error.');
		}
	};

};
// Dsq.Utils

/**
 * Dsq.Popup: Popup helper functions.
 */
Dsq.Popup = new function() {
	this.timeHide = new Array();
	this.timeShow = new Array();
	this.activePopup = {};
	this.profileCache = {};
	this.statusCache = {};

	this.showTimer = function(post_id) {
		// clear the hide timer
		clearTimeout(this.timeHide[post_id]);

		// start the timer
		if(!Dsq.Popup.profileIsOn && !Dsq.Thread.adminIsOn) {
			this.timeShow[post_id] = setTimeout("Dsq.Popup.popProfile(\"" + post_id + "\")", 400);
		}
	};

	this.hideTimer = function(post_id) {
		// clear the show timer
		clearTimeout(this.timeShow[post_id]);
	};

	this.updateProfile = function(username) {
		// Callback from /embed/profile.js
		if (this.statusCache[username]) {
			var statusEl = Dsq.$('dsq-profile-status-' + username);
			statusEl.innerHTML = this.statusCache[username];
			statusEl.style.display = 'block';
		}

		if (this.profileCache[username]) {
			var _cache = this.profileCache[username];

			var _genhtml = function(text) { return '<span><big>' + text + '</big></span>'; };
			var _no_comments = _genhtml(Dsq.FmtStrings.NUMBER_OF_COMMENTS(_cache.comments_count));
			var _no_likes = _genhtml(Dsq.FmtStrings.NUMBER_OF_LIKES(_cache.likes_count));
			var _no_points = _genhtml(Dsq.FmtStrings.NUMBER_OF_POINTS(_cache.points));

			var statsEl = Dsq.$('dsq-popup-profile-user-stats-' + username);
			statsEl.innerHTML = '';

			if (Dsq.jsonData.users[username].registered) {
				statsEl.innerHTML = _no_comments + _no_likes;
			}
			statsEl.innerHTML += _no_points;

			var activeSites = '';
			for (var i = 0; i < _cache.active_sites.length; i++) {
				var site = _cache.active_sites[i];
				activeSites += '<li><a href="' + site.url + '"> \
					<img src="' + site.favicon + '"/ width="16" height="16"/></a>\
					<a href="' + site.url + '">' + site.name + '</a></li>';
			}
			if (activeSites !== '') {
				Dsq.$('dsq-popup-profile-active-sites-' + username).innerHTML = activeSites;
			} else {
				Dsq.$('dsq-popup-profile-active-sites-' + username).innerHTML = 'This site.';
			}

			var moderatedSites = '';
			for (var i = 0; i < _cache.moderated_sites.length; i++) {
				var site = _cache.moderated_sites[i];
				moderatedSites += '<li><a href="' + site.url + '"> \
					<img src="' + site.favicon + '"/ width="16" height="16"/></a>\
					<a href="' + site.url + '">' + site.name + '</a></li>';
			}
			if (moderatedSites !== '') {
				Dsq.$('dsq-popup-profile-moderated-' + username).innerHTML = moderatedSites;
			} else {
				Dsq.$('dsq-popup-profile-moderated-wrapper-' + username).innerHTML = '';
			}
		}

		// Reposition popup after full HTML is rendered
		if(Dsq.Popup.activePopup && Dsq.Popup.activePopup.el) {
			Dsq.Popup.initPopup(Dsq.Popup.activePopup.el, Dsq.Popup.activePopup.id, Dsq.Popup.activePopup.type);
		}

	};

	this.showCookieMsgs = function() {
		var title = '';
		var message = '';
		var numAlerts = 0;

		Dsq.Utils.forEachIn(Dsq.jsonData.cookie_messages, function(k, v) {
			if (!v) return;

			switch(k) {
				// Cookie: Twitter
				case 'post_twitter':
					if (v === 'error') {
						title = 'Twitter Error!';
						message += '<li id="dsq-msg-twitter-error">Oops, we couldn\'t tweet this comment. Please check your <a href="http://disqus.com/account/services">account settings</a>.</li>';
					} else {
						var _msg = v.split(':');
						title = 'Tweeted!';
						message += '<li id="dsq-msg-twitter-success">Your comment was successfully tweeted. <a href="http://twitter.com/' + _msg[0] + '/status/' + _msg[1] + '">Click here to view the tweet</a>.</li>';
					}
					break;
				// Cookie: Unapproved Post
				case 'post_not_approved':
					title = 'Comment awaiting approval by a moderator';
					message += '<li id="dsq-msg-post-not-approved">Your comment must be approved by a moderator before appearing here.</li>';
					break;
				// Cookie: Profile Found
				case 'post_has_profile':
					title = 'Use your existing commenter profile';
					message += '<li id="dsq-msg-post-has-profile">You have just posted your commment as a <span class="dsq-badge-guest">Guest</span>, but you may already have a <span class="logo-disqus">Disqus</span> Profile.<br /><br /><a href="http://disqus.com/claim">Log in and claim this comment!</a></li>';
					break;
				case 'user_created':
					var _data = v.split(':');
					title = 'Profile created!';
					message += '<li id="dsq-msg-user-created">You have just created a <span class="logo-disqus">Disqus</span> Profile, the best way to claim, manage, and track your comments all over the web. \
					<br /><br />A confirmation is being sent to <strong>' + _data[1] + '</strong>. Please check for this email in order to verify your profile. \
					<ul class="dsq-list-tick"> \
						<li>Your username is <strong>' + _data[0] +'</strong>. <a href="http://disqus.com/people/' + _data[0] + '/" target="_blank">Click here to view your public profile</a>.</li> \
						<li>Be sure to set your profile picture, as well as connect your <span class="dsq-badge-facebook">Facebook</span> and <span class="dsq-badge-twitter">Twitter</span> accounts. <a href="http://disqus.com/account/" target="_blank">Click here for account settings</a>.</li> \
					</ul> \
					</li>'
					break;
				default:
					break;
			}
			numAlerts++;
		});

		if(numAlerts > 1) {
			message = '<ul class="dsq-list-bluebullet">' + message;
			message += '</ul>';
			title = 'Thanks for posting!';
		}
		if(numAlerts > 0) {
			if(typeof(disqus_cookie_msgs) == 'function') {
				disqus_cookie_msgs(message, title);
			} else {
				Dsq.Popup.popModal(message, title);
			}
		}
	};

	this.helpBadges = function(post_id) {
		var html = ' \
			<ul class="dsq-popup-help"> \
				<li><span class="dsq-badge dsq-badge-verified">Verified</span> has a <span class="logo-disqus">Disqus</span> Profile with a confirmed email address.</li> \
				<li><span class="dsq-badge dsq-badge-registered">Registered</span> has a <span class="logo-disqus">Disqus</span> Profile, but has not yet confirmed his or her email address.</li> \
				<li><span class="dsq-badge dsq-badge-guest">Guest</span> is not logged in with any account and has not claimed his or her comments.</li> \
				<li class="dsq-help-otheraccts">Other accounts</li> \
				<li><span class="dsq-badge dsq-badge-facebook">Facebook</span> is using his or her Facebook profile via Facebook Connect.</li> \
				<li><span class="dsq-badge dsq-badge-twitter">Twitter</span> is using his or her Twitter profile via Twitter Sign-in.</li> \
				<li><span class="dsq-badge dsq-badge-openid">OpenID</span> is using his or her OpenID.</li> \
			</ul> \
		';

		this.popModal(html, 'Help: Types of Commenters', post_id);
		return;
	};

	this.permalink = function(post_id) {
		var header = 'Link to this comment';
		var body = '<strong>You are anchored to</strong>:<br />' + document.location.protocol + '//' + document.location.host + document.location.pathname + document.location.search + '#comment-' + post_id;

		this.popModal(body, header, post_id);
	};

	this.login = function(header, body) {
		var h = header || 'Login or Register';
		var b = body || '';
		b += Dsq.Templates.frameLogin({id: 'dsq-popup-login'});
		b += '</iframe>'; // HACK: Sometimes there is something funky with the IFRAME SRC that causes no end tag
		this.popModal(b, h, null, true, 'dsq-popup-login');
	};

	this.blacklist = function(id) {
		var _meta = Dsq.jsonData.posts[id];
		var userData = Dsq.jsonData['users'][_meta.user_key];
		var title = 'Add to Blacklist';
		var message = ' \
		Adding this person to the blacklist will block him or her from commenting on this site. Check the following types that you would like to add to the blacklist:'
		+ (userData['registered'] ?
			'<div class="dsq-blacklist-option"> \
				<input id="dsq-blacklist-username" type="checkbox" checked> \
				<label for="dsq-blacklist-username"><strong>Username</strong>: ' + userData['username'] + '</label> \
			</div>'
			: '')
		+ (_meta.email ?
			'<div class="dsq-blacklist-option"> \
				<input id="dsq-blacklist-email" type="checkbox" checked> \
				<label for="dsq-blacklist-email"><strong>Email address</strong>: ' + _meta.email + '</label> \
			</div>'
			: '')
		+ '<div class="dsq-blacklist-option"> \
			<input id="dsq-blacklist-ip" type="checkbox" onclick="Dsq.$(\'dsq-blacklist-ip-warning\').style.display=\'block\'"> \
			<label for="dsq-blacklist-ip"><strong>IP address</strong>: ' + _meta.ip + '</label> \
		</div> \
		';

		message += ' \
			<p id="dsq-blacklist-ip-warning" style="display:none">	\
				Note: Blocking this person\'s IP address may also unintentionally prevent others, who share his/her IP address, from commenting on this site. \
				This may include people who are sharing the same computer, living in the same house, or using the same Internet provider. Only block an IP address as a last resort. \
			</p> \
		';

		message += ' \
			<p style="text-align:center"><button onclick="Dsq.Post.blockUser(' + id + '); this.disabled=true; this.innerHTML=\'Just one moment...\'">Add to Blacklist</button></p> \
		';

		Dsq.Popup.popModal(message, title);
	};

	this.remoteAccountSettings = function() {
		var body = '';
		// Set up IFrame.
		var params = {};
		var base_url = 'http://disqus.com/forums/jackandjillpolitics/_auth/embed/remote_settings/';
		var attributes = {id: 'dsq-popup-account-settings'};
		if (typeof disqus_frame_theme != 'undefined') {
			params['theme'] = disqus_frame_theme;
		}

		body = Dsq.Templates._frameGeneric(base_url, params, attributes);
		this.popModal(body, 'Account Settings', null, true, 'dsq-popup-account-settings');
	};

	this.popModal = function(message, title, post_id, use_listener, extra_classes) {
		var container = document.createElement('div');
		var header, body;

		Dsq.Popup._closePopup(null, true);

		if(typeof(title) == 'undefined') { title = ''; }
		if(typeof(use_listener) == 'undefined') { use_listener = true; }

		if(post_id) {
			container.id = 'dsq-popup-message-' + post_id;
		} else {
			container.id = 'dsq-popup-message';
		}

		header = title;
		body = message;

		container.innerHTML = Dsq.Templates.popupModal(header, body);
		Dsq.Popup.initPopup(container, post_id, 'message', extra_classes);
		if(use_listener) {
			Dsq.Popup.popupListener = Dsq.Utils.addEventListener(document, 'mouseup', Dsq.Popup._closePopup);
		}
	};

	this.popAlert = this.popModal;

	this.loading = function(post_id) {
		var title = Dsq.Strings.JUST_A_MOMENT;
		var body = '<div style="text-align:center; padding: 5px 0 10px 0"><img src="http://media.disqus.com/images/loading.gif" alt="" /></div>'
		Dsq.Popup.lightbox(body, title, post_id);
	};

	this.lightbox = function(message, title, post_id) {
		// Wraps Dsq.Popup.popModal

		var overlay = document.createElement('div');
		overlay.id = 'dsq-overlay';
		overlay.className = 'dsq-overlay';
		Dsq.$b.appendChild(overlay);
		
		Dsq.Popup.popModal(message, title, post_id, false, 'dsq-lightbox');
	};

	this.popProfile = function(post_id, userKey) {
		var post = Dsq.jsonData['posts'][post_id];
		if (post && post.has_been_anonymized) {
			Dsq.Popup.popModal('This message was anonymized by its previous owner.', 'Anonymized', post_id);
			return;
		}

		if(post_id) {
			userKey = Dsq.jsonData['posts'][post_id].user_key;	
		}
		var userData = Dsq.jsonData['users'][userKey];
		var elId = 'dsq-popup-profile-' + userKey;
		var container = document.createElement('div');

		if(this.activePopup.el) {
			this._closePopup(null, true);
			if(this.activePopup.linkClicked) {
				this.activePopup.linkClicked = false;
				return;
			}
		}

		container.id = elId;
		container.innerHTML = Dsq.Templates.popupProfile(userKey);

		this.initPopup(container, post_id, 'profile');
		this.popupListener = Dsq.Utils.addEventListener(document, 'mouseup', this._closePopup);

		if(!this.profileCache[userKey]) {
			Dsq.Utils.execScript('http://disqus.com/embed/profile.js'
				+ '?username=' + userKey
				+ '&anon=' + (userData['registered'] ? 0 : 1)
				+ '&f=' + Dsq.jsonData['request'].forum);
		} else {
			this.updateProfile(userKey);
		}
	};

	this._closePopup = function(e, force) {
		var activePopup = Dsq.Popup.activePopup.el;
		var id = Dsq.Popup.activePopup.id;
		var link = 'dsq-avatar-' + id; // HACK: Specific to profile toggle target

		// HACK: This event should be gone if there is no active popup.
		if(!activePopup) {
			return;
		}
		if(force || !Dsq.Popup.isClicked(e, activePopup.id)) {
			// TODO: This is breaking iE?
			if(Dsq.Popup.popupListener) {
				Dsq.Utils.removeEventListener(Dsq.Popup.popupListener);
			}
			
			// Kill overlay
			var overlay = Dsq.$('dsq-overlay');
			if(overlay) { Dsq.Utils.deleteNode(overlay); }
			
			try {
				Dsq.Utils.deleteNode(activePopup);
			} catch(e) {
				// HACK: IE6 throws an error when using deleteNode() with a node containing a <table> in the html.
				activePopup.parentNode.removeChild(activePopup);
			}
			Dsq.Popup.activePopup = {};
		}

		if(!force && Dsq.Popup.isClicked(e, link)) {
 			Dsq.Popup.activePopup.linkClicked = true;
		}

	};

	this.initPopup = function(popup, post_id, type, extra_classes) {
		popup.className = 'dsq-popup dsq-popup-' + type + ' ' + (extra_classes ? extra_classes : '');
		if(Dsq.Utils.ie6 || Dsq.Utils.ie7) {
			// HACK: We can't modify the body before it's ready, so we need
			//       to use an IE-safe "DOMReady" workaround before loading
			//       our popup.
			Dsq.Utils.execOnReady(function() {Dsq.$b.appendChild(popup); });
		} else {
			Dsq.$b.appendChild(popup);
		}

		popup.style.display = 'block';

		var xPos = (Dsq.Utils.getWindowSize()[0] - popup.offsetWidth) / 2;
		var yPos = (Dsq.Utils.getWindowSize()[1] - popup.offsetHeight) / 2;

		if(Dsq.Utils.ie6) {
			yPos += Dsq.Utils.getScrollPos()[1];
		}

		popup.style.left = xPos + 'px';
		popup.style.top = yPos + 'px';

		Dsq.Popup.activePopup = {
			'el' : popup,
			'id' : post_id,
			'type': type,
			'linkClicked' : false
		};
	};

	this.isClicked = function(e, id) {
		var t = e.target || e.srcElement;
		while(t && t.parentNode) {
			if(t.id == id) {
				return true;
			}

			t = t.parentNode;
		}
		return false;
	};
};
// Dsq.Popup

/**
 * Dsq.Templates
 */
Dsq.Templates = new function() {
	/*
	 * Counter keeping track of the number of posts iterated over.
	 */
	this.postLoopCounter = 0;
	this.filters = {};
	this.addPostContainer = 'dsq-post-add';
	this.textareaContainer = 'dsq-post-add';

	this.registerTemplate = function(name, func) {
		this['$$_' + name] = func;

		if(typeof DsqLocal.Filters != 'undefined'
		&& typeof DsqLocal.Filters[name] == 'function') {
			// Push filters to this.filters to unify code.
			this.filters[name] = this.filters[name] || [];
			this.filters[name].push(DsqLocal.Filters[name]);
		}

		this[name] = function() {
			var ret;

			if(typeof DsqLocal.Templates != 'undefined'
			&& typeof DsqLocal.Templates[name] == 'function') {
				ret = DsqLocal.Templates[name].apply(this, arguments);
			}

			if(ret === undefined) {
				ret = this['$$_' + name].apply(this, arguments);
			}

			if(this.filters[name]) {
				var args = [ret];

				args.push.apply(args, arguments);
				for(var i = 0; i < this.filters[name].length; i++) {
					ret = this.filters[name][i].apply(this, args);
				}
			}

			return ret;
		};
	};

	this.registerFilter = function(name, func) {
		this.filters[name] = this.filters[name] || [];
		this.filters[name].push(func);
	};

	/**
	 * Dsq.Templates.Filters
	 */
	this.Filters = new function() {
		this.commentContainer = function(post_id, s) {
			var _meta = Dsq.jsonData.posts[post_id];
			var classes = [];
			if(Dsq.jsonData.request.page > 1) {
				classes.push('dsq-append');
			}

			//
			// Extra classes used for custom themes
			//

			if(_meta.depth) {
				classes.push('dsq-comment-child', 'dsq-depth-' + _meta.depth, 'dsq-parent-is-' + _meta.parent_post_id);
			}


			//

			if(_meta.author_is_creator) {
				// TODO: We need to deprecate the "special" class since it is not properly prefixed.
				classes.push('special', 'dsq-special');
			}
			if(_meta.author_is_moderator) {
				classes.push('dsq-moderator');
			}
			classes.push(['dsq-odd', 'dsq-even'][Dsq.Templates.postLoopCounter % 2]);

			s = s.substring(0, s.lastIndexOf('>'));
			return s + ' class="dsq-comment ' + classes.join(' ') + '" style="margin-left:' + _meta.depth*30 + 'px">';
		};

		this.commentContent = function(post_id, s) {
			var _meta = Dsq.jsonData.posts[post_id];
			if (_meta.killed) {
				return '<em>Comment removed.</em>';
			} else if (!_meta.approved) {
				return '<em>This comment was flagged for review.</em>';
			}

			s = s.replace(Dsq.MEDIA_POST_RE, Dsq.MediaPostHandler);
			return s;
		};
	};

	//
	// Thread
	//
	// TODO: These need to be stripped of all Django template tags.

	this.authPost = function() {
		if (!Dsq.jsonData.context.show_reply) {
			return '';
		}
		var result = [];
		result = result.concat([
				'<div id="dsq-auth"',
						Dsq.jsonData.integration.reply_position ? 'class="dsq-auth-bottom"' : '',
						'>',
					'<div class="dsq-by">',
						'<a href="http://disqus.com" target="_blank">',
							(Dsq.jsonData.integration.disqus_logo ?
								Dsq.Utils.interpolate('<img src="%(media_url)s/images/embed/by-disqus.png" alt="discussion by DISQUS">') :
								Dsq.Utils.interpolate('<img src="%(media_url)s/images/embed/dsq-button-120x19.png" alt="discussion by DISQUS">')
							),
						'</a>',
					'</div>',
					'<div class="dsq-auth-header">',
						'<h3 id="dsq-add-new-comment" class="dsq-h3-addcomment">',
								Dsq.Strings.ADD_NEW_COMMENT,
						'</h3>',
						'<div id="dsq-login">',
						(!Dsq.jsonData.request.is_authenticated && Dsq.jsonData.forum.allow_anon_post
								? '<p class="dsq-login-message" id="dsq-login-message">You are commenting as a <a class="dsq-help" title="Click for more information" href="#" onclick="Dsq.Popup.helpBadges(); return false">Guest</a>. You may select one to log into:</p>'
								: '')
		]);
		if (!Dsq.jsonData.request.is_authenticated) {
			result = result.concat([
							Dsq.Utils.interpolate(
								'<a id="dsq-login-toggle" href="%(disqus_url)s%(login_url)s?next=article:%(thread_id)s" onclick="Dsq.Popup.login(); return false"><img class="dsq-login-icon" src="%(media_url)s/images/dsq-profile-btn.png" title="%(log_into)s" alt="%(log_into)s"/></a>',
								{login_url: Dsq.Urls.LOGIN, thread_id: Dsq.jsonData.thread.id, log_into: Dsq.Strings.LOG_INTO_DISQUS}
								),
							'&nbsp; ',
							(Dsq.jsonData.context.use_fb_connect ?
								'<div id="dsq-fbc-login" onlogin="DisqusFbcParentController.onLogin()" size="medium" background="light" length="short" style="display:inline; margin-right:7px"></div>' :
								''
							),
							(Dsq.jsonData.context.use_twitter_signin ?
								Dsq.Utils.interpolate(
									'<div id="dsq-twitter-login" class="dsq-twitter-login" onclick="Dsq.Twitter.startTwitterConnect();" style="display:inline; cursor: pointer"><img src="%(media_url)s/images/twitter-signin-short.png" style="margin-right:7px" /></div>', {}) : ''),
							(Dsq.jsonData.context.use_openid ?
								Dsq.Utils.interpolate(
									'<div id="dsq-openid-login" class="dsq-openid-login" onclick="Dsq.OpenID.requestURL();" style="display:inline; cursor:pointer;"><img src="%(media_url)s/images/openid-login-button.png"/></div>', {}
								) : '')
			]);
		}
		result = result.concat([
						'</div>', // dsq-login
					'</div>', // dsq-auth-header
					'<div id="dsq-authenticated" class="dsq-authenticated" ',
						Dsq.jsonData.request.is_authenticated ? 'style="display:block"' : '',
						'>',
						'<div class="dsq-authenticated-pic">',
								Dsq.Utils.interpolate('<a href="%(url)s" title="%(request_display_username)s">' +
																			'<img class="dsq-post-avatar" src="%(avatar_url)s" alt="" /></a>',
																			{avatar_url: Dsq.Urls.REQUEST_USER_AVATAR,
																			url: (Dsq.jsonData.request.is_remote
																					 ? Dsq.jsonData.request.url
																					 : Dsq.jsonData.settings.disqus_url + Dsq.Urls.REQUEST_USER_PROFILE) }),
						'</div>',
						'<div class="dsq-authenticated-info">',
							'<ul>',
								'<li>',
									(Dsq.jsonData.request.is_remote
										? Dsq.FmtStrings.LOGGED_IN_AS(
												Dsq.Utils.interpolate('<a href="%(url)s" title="%(request_display_username)s">%(request_display_username)s</a>', {url:Dsq.jsonData.request.url})
										  )
										: Dsq.FmtStrings.LOGGED_IN_AS(
												Dsq.Utils.interpolate('<a href="%(disqus_url)s%(profile_url)s" title="%(request_display_username)s">%(request_display_username)s</a>')
											)
									),
								'</li>',
								'<li class="logout">',
									(!Dsq.jsonData.request.is_remote
										? Dsq.Utils.interpolate('<img class="dsq-login-icon" src="%(media_url)s/images/dsqicon12.png" alt="%(logged_in_as)s"/>&nbsp',
											{logged_in_as: Dsq.FmtStrings.LOGGED_IN_AS(Dsq.jsonData.request.display_username)})
										: ''),

									(!Dsq.jsonData.request.is_remote
										? Dsq.Utils.interpolate('<a href="%(disqus_url)s%(logout_url)s?ctkn=%(csrf_token)s" title="%(logout_from_disqus)s">',
											{logout_url: Dsq.Urls.LOGOUT, csrf_token: Dsq.CSRF_TOKEN, logout_from_disqus: Dsq.FmtStrings.LOGOUT_FROM('DISQUS')})
										: ((Dsq.jsonData.request.remote_domain == 'twitter')
												? Dsq.Utils.interpolate('using Twitter (<a href="%(disqus_url)s%(logout_url)s?ctkn=%(csrf_token)s" title="Logout">Logout</a>)',
												 {logout_url: Dsq.Urls.LOGOUT, csrf_token: Dsq.CSRF_TOKEN})
												: ((Dsq.jsonData.request.remote_domain == 'openid')
													 ? Dsq.Utils.interpolate('using OpenID (<a href="%(disqus_url)s%(logout_url)s?ctkn=%(csrf_token)s" title="Logout">Logout</a>)',
													 {logout_url: Dsq.Urls.LOGOUT, csrf_token: Dsq.CSRF_TOKEN})
													 : ''
													)
											)
									),

									(!Dsq.jsonData.request.is_remote ? Dsq.FmtStrings.LOGOUT_FROM('<span class="logo-disqus">DISQUS</span>') : ''),
									'</a>',
								'</li>',
							'</ul>',
						'</div>',
					'</div>'
		]);
		if (Dsq.jsonData.context.use_fb_connect) {
			result = result.concat([
					'<div id="dsq-fbc-authenticated" class="dsq-authenticated">',
						'<div id="dsq-fbc-profilepic" class="dsq-authenticated-pic" uid="loggedinuser" type="FB.XFBML.ProfilePic" size="square" facebook-logo="true"></div>',
						'<div class="dsq-authenticated-info">',
							'<ul>',
								'<li>',
									'Logged in as <span id="dsq-fbc-name" uid="loggedinuser" type="FB.XFBML.Name" linked="true" useyou="false"></span>',
								'</li>',
								'<li class="logout">using Facebook Connect <a href="#" onclick="javascript:DisqusFbcParentController.logout();return false;">(Logout)</a></li>',
							'</ul>',
						'</div>',
					'</div>'
			]);
		}
		result = result.concat([
				'</div>', // dsq-auth
				'<div id="dsq-toolbar-items">',
				'</div>'
		]);
		result = result.concat([
					//
					//
					//
				((!Dsq.jsonData.forum.allow_anon_post && !Dsq.jsonData.request.is_authenticated) ?
					// Needs to be translated:
					('<p id="dsq-no-anon-msg">Required: Please log into <span class="logo-disqus">Disqus</span> ' +
					(Dsq.jsonData.context.use_fb_connect ? 'or connect with Facebook ' : '') +
					(Dsq.jsonData.context.use_twitter_signin ? 'or sign in with Twitter ' : '') +
					(Dsq.jsonData.context.use_openid ? 'or sign in using OpenID ' : '') +
					Dsq.Utils.interpolate('to comment on <strong>%(forum_name)s</strong>.</p>')) :
					''
				),
				'<div id="dsq-post-add"></div>',
				'<div style="margin:10px 0">',
				((Dsq.jsonData.forum.use_media) ?
						'<a href="#" id="dsq-media-link" onclick="Dsq.Post.showMenu(this, false, \'media\'); return false">' + Dsq.Strings.USE_MEDIA + ' <small>&#9660;</small></a>' :
						''),
				'</div>'
		]);
		return result.join('');
	};


	this.header = function() {

		var html = '\<h3 id="dsq-comments-count" class="dsq-h3-commentcount">\
	 <span id="dsq-num-posts">81</span> Comments\
	 &nbsp;\
	 <span class="dsq-item-feed">\
	 <a href="http://jackandjillpolitics.disqus.com/i_have_questions_about_gay_marriage/latest.rss"><img src="http://media.disqus.com/images/embed/bullet-feed.png"></a>\
	 </span>\
	 </h3>\
	 <div id="dsq-options" style="margin:15px 0">\
	 <span class="dsq-item-sort">\
	 Sort by\
	 <select id="dsq-sort-select" onchange="Dsq.Thread.sortBy(this.value);">\
	 <option value="hot" selected="selected">Popular now</option>\
	 <option value="best" >Best Rating</option>\
	 <option value="newest" >Newest first</option>\
	 <option value="oldest" >Oldest first</option>\
	 </select>\
	 &nbsp;\
	 </span>\
	 <span class="dsq-item-cp"><a href="http://jackandjillpolitics.disqus.com/i_have_questions_about_gay_marriage/">Community Page</a>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</span>\
	 <span class="dsq-item-subscribe">\
	 <img src="http://media.disqus.com/images/embed/email.png" style="width:12px;height:12px;vertical-align:middle">\
	 <span id="dsq-subscribe">\
	 <a href="#" onclick="Dsq.Thread.subscribe(1); return false">Subscribe by email</a>\
	 </span>\
	 </span>\
	 </div>\
	 <div id="dsq-alerts">\
	 <p><a href="http://disqus.com/profile/login/?next=article:7055796" onclick="Dsq.Popup.login(); return false">You must log into your Disqus Profile in order to post comments.</a></p>\
	 </div>\
		';

		

		
		if (Dsq.jsonData.request.is_moderator) { 
			html = ' \
			<div class="dsq-alert-message dsq-upgrade-message"> \
				<strong>Disqus upgrade available.</strong> Hi ' + Dsq.jsonData.request.display_username + ', this message is being displayed to you because you are a moderator of this site. <a href="#" onclick="Dsq.$(\'dsq-upgrade-message\').style.display=\'block\';this.style.display=\'none\';return false">Click here for details.</a> \
				<div style="display:none; margin-top:10px;" id="dsq-upgrade-message"> \
					A new theme is available with added features. <a href="http://disqus.com/comments/settings/' + Dsq.jsonData.forum.url + '/?p=customize">To change your theme, click here</a> and choose the theme Narcissus. \
					If you do not upgrade, you are missing out on features such as: real-time commenting, new sign-in integrations, and an upgrade interface. \
					<strong>This message will automatically go away in one week.</strong> \
				</div> \
			</div> \
			' + html; 
		}
		return html;
	};

	this.footer = function() {
		var html = Dsq.Templates.pagination();

		
			html += Dsq.Templates.authPost();
		

		html += Dsq.Templates.reactions();

		
			html += Dsq.Templates.trackbacks();
		

		return html;
	};

	this.pagination = function() {
		var html = '';
		
		if (Dsq.$('dsq-pagination')) { Dsq.$('dsq-pagination').innerHTML = ''; }
		if (!Dsq.jsonData.thread.paginate) { return ''; }

		//
		// TODO: num_paginator still uses the template tag for pagination, 
		// 		while append_paginator does it all in JavaScript.
		//		This should all be in JavaScript.
		//

		if (Dsq.jsonData.thread.num_pages > 1 && Dsq.jsonData.request.page < Dsq.jsonData.thread.num_pages) {
			html = ' \<a class="dsq-paginate-append-text" href="#" onclick="Dsq.Thread.paginate(Dsq.jsonData.request.page + 1, this); return false">Show more comments...</a>\
	 <button class="dsq-button-small dsq-paginate-append-button" onclick="Dsq.Thread.paginate(Dsq.jsonData.request.page + 1, this);">Load more comments</button>\
			';
		}
		
		if (Dsq.$('dsq-pagination')) {
			Dsq.$('dsq-pagination').innerHTML = html;
			return '';
		} else {
			return '<div id="dsq-pagination" class="dsq-pagination">' + html + '</div>';
		}
	};

	this.trackbacks = function() {
		var html = '';

		if(typeof DsqLocal != 'undefined' && DsqLocal.trackback_url && DsqLocal.trackbacks) {
			var trackbacks = DsqLocal.trackbacks;
			var trackback_url = DsqLocal.trackback_url;
		} else {
			var trackbacks = [
			
			
			];
			var trackback_url = 'http://jackandjillpolitics.disqus.com/i_have_questions_about_gay_marriage/trackback/';
		}

		html += '<div class="dsq-item-trackback">Trackback URL&nbsp;&nbsp;<input class="dsq-trackback-url" onclick="this.select()" readonly="true" value="' + trackback_url + '"></div>';

		if(trackbacks.length) {
			html += '<ul id="dsq-references">'
			for(var i = 0; i < trackbacks.length; i++) {
				var trackback = trackbacks[i];
				html += '<li><cite><a href="' + trackback.author_url + '" rel="nofollow">' + trackback.author_name + '</a></cite> \
						<p class="dsq-meta">' + trackback.date + '</p> \
						<p class="dsq-content">' + trackback.excerpt + '</p></li>';
			}
			html += '</ul>';
			html = '<h3 class="dsq-h3-trackbacks">Trackbacks</h3>' + html;
		}

		return html;
	}

	this.showRetweets = function(id, limit, element_id /* Optional */) {
		var source, html = '';

		for (var i = 0, reaction; reaction = Dsq.jsonData.reactions[i]; i++) {
			if (reaction.id === id) {
				source = reaction.retweets;
			}
		}

		if (source) {
			if (limit === 0) {
				limit = source.length;
			}

			for (var j = 0; j < limit; j++) {
				var rt = source[j];
				html += '<a href="' + rt.url + '">' + rt.author_name + '</a>'	+ ((j === (limit - 1)) ? '.' : ', ');
			}
		}

		if (element_id === undefined) {
			return html;
		}

		var element = document.getElementById(element_id);
		element.innerHTML = html;
		return element;
	};

	this.showMoreReactions = function(reactions, has_more, start, limit) {
		var link = document.getElementById('dsq-show-more-reactions');
		var container = link.parentNode;
		container.removeChild(link);

		for (var i = 0, reaction; reaction = reactions[i]; i++) {
			var el = Dsq.Templates.generateReactionHTML(reaction);
			if (el) {
				container.innerHTML += el;
			}
		}

		if (has_more) {
			var d = Dsq.jsonData.settings.disqus_url;
			var f = Dsq.jsonData.forum.url;
			var t = Dsq.jsonData.thread.id;
			var s = start;
			var l = limit;

			var handler = 'Dsq.Utils.execScript(\'' + d + '/forums/' + f + '/more_reactions.js?t=' + t + '&s=' + s + '&l=' + l + '\', true); return false;';
			container.innerHTML += '<li id="dsq-show-more-reactions"><a href="#" onclick="' + handler + '">Show more reactions</a></li>';
		}
	};

	this.generateReactionHTML = function(reaction) {
		if (reaction.body === null || reaction.body == '') {
			return;
		}

		if (reaction.author_name === '') {
			reaction.author_name = '&nbsp;';
		}

		if (reaction.url === '') {
			reaction.url = reaction.get_service_url;
		}

		/* Reaction HTML begins */
		var item = '<li class="dsq-reaction" id="dsq-reaction-' + reaction.id + '">'
			+ '<div class="dsq-reaction-header">'
			+ '<div class="dsq-header-avatar">';

		if (reaction.author_url && reaction.author_url !== '') {
			item += '<a target="_blank" href="' + reaction.author_url +'">';
		} else {
			item += '<a target="_blank" href="#" onclick="return false;">';
		}

		if (reaction.avatar_url && reaction.avatar_url !== '') {
			item += '<img src="' + reaction.avatar_url + '"/>';
		} else {
			item += '<img src="' + Dsq.jsonData.media_url + '/images/noavatar32.png"/>';
		}

		var service_icon = (reaction.get_service_name == 'trackback' || reaction.get_service_name == 'pingback' ? 'rss' : reaction.get_service_name.replace(' ', ''));
		item += '<img class="dsq-service-icon" src="' + Dsq.jsonData.media_url + '/images/reactions/services/' + service_icon + '.png"/>'
			+ '</a></div>'
			+ '<cite><span>' + reaction.author_name + '</span></cite>'
			+ '<span class="dsq-header-meta"><a class="dsq-header-time">' + reaction.date_created + '</a></span>'
			+ '</div><div class="dsq-reaction-body">'
			+ '<div class="dsq-reaction-message">' + reaction.body + '</div>'
			+ '<div class="dsq-reaction-footer">From <a class="dsq-service-name" target="_blank" href="' + reaction.url + '">' + reaction.get_service_name + '</a> '
			+ 'via ' + (reaction.source == 'backtype' ? '<a href="http://backtype.com/">BackType</a>' : '<a href="' + reaction.source_url + '">UberVU</a>')
			+ (Dsq.jsonData.request.is_moderator || Dsq.jsonData.request.is_global_moderator ? '&nbsp;&bull;&nbsp;<a class="dsq-hide-reaction" href="#" onclick="Dsq.Reaction.hide(' + reaction.id + '); return false;">Hide</a>' : '') + '</div></div>';

		if(reaction.retweets) {
			var num_retweets = reaction.retweets.length;
			if (num_retweets > 0) {
				item += '<div class="dsq-reaction-retweets">';
				if (num_retweets == 1) {
					item += 'One more retweet from <a href="' + reaction.retweets[0].url + '">'  + reaction.retweets[0].author_name + '</a>';
				} else {
					item += (num_retweets + ' more retweets from ');

					item += '<span id="dsq-reaction-retweets-' + reaction.id + '">';
					var n_tweets = (num_retweets > 15) ? 15 : num_retweets;
					item += Dsq.Templates.showRetweets(reaction.id, n_tweets);

					if (n_tweets != num_retweets) {
						item += '</span> <a onclick="Dsq.Templates.showRetweets(' + reaction.id + ', 0, \'dsq-reaction-retweets-' + reaction.id + '\');'
							+ 'this.parentNode.removeChild(this); return false;" href="#">Show all</a>';
					}
				}
				item += '</div>';
			}
		}

		item += '</li>'; /* Reaction HTML ends */
		return item;
	};

	this.reactions = function() {
		var html, reaction;

		if (Dsq.jsonData.reactions === undefined || Dsq.jsonData.reactions.length === 0) {
			return '';
		}

		html = '';
		for (var i = 0; reaction = Dsq.jsonData.reactions[i]; i++) {
			var item = Dsq.Templates.generateReactionHTML(reaction);
			if (item) {
				html += item;
			}
		}

		if (Dsq.jsonData.has_more_reactions) {
			var d = Dsq.jsonData.settings.disqus_url;
			var f = Dsq.jsonData.forum.url;
			var t = Dsq.jsonData.thread.id;
			var s = Dsq.jsonData.reactions_start;
			var l = Dsq.jsonData.reactions_limit;

			var handler = 'Dsq.Utils.execScript(\'' + d + '/forums/' + f + '/more_reactions.js?t=' + t + '&s=' + s + '&l=' + l + '\', true); return false;';
			html += '<li id="dsq-show-more-reactions"><a href="#" onclick="' + handler + '">Show more reactions</a></li>';
		}

		return '<h3 class="dsq-h3-reactions">Reactions</h3><ul id="dsq-reactions" class="dsq-reactions">' + html + '</ul>';
	};
	
	this.missingPermissions = function() {
		return '	<p><a href="http://disqus.com/profile/login/?next=article:7055796" onclick="Dsq.Popup.login(); return false">You must log into your Disqus Profile in order to post comments.</a></p> \n';
	};

	//
	// Post
	//

	this.prependPost = function(post_id) {
		var html = '<div id="comment-' + post_id + '"></div>';
		return html;
	};

	this.appendPost = function(post_id) {
		var html = '<div id="dsq-comment-reply-' + post_id + '"></div>';
		return html;
	};

	this.postPrependHeader = function(post_id) {
		var _meta = Dsq.jsonData.posts[post_id];
		var userData = Dsq.jsonData['users'][_meta.user_key];

		var _includeServices = function() {
			var userServices = Dsq.Post.getUserServices(null, post_id);
			var html = '';
			var hiddenThreshold = 3; // Define # of services to show before stuffing them in hidden div

			for(var i = 0; i < userServices.length; i++) {
				html +=
				(i == hiddenThreshold
					? '<li id="dsq-drop-hidden-' + post_id +'" class="dsq-drop-hidden"><ul>'
					: '')
				+ '<li class="dsq-drop-services"> \
					<a class="dsq-service-' + userServices[i].name.toLowerCase() + '" href="' + userServices[i].url + '" target="_blank"> \
						<img src="' + Dsq.jsonData.media_url + '/images/embed/services/' + userServices[i].name.toLowerCase() + '.png" alt="' + userServices[i].name.toLowerCase() + '">'
					+ userServices[i].name
					+ '</a> \
				</li>';
			}

			if(i >= hiddenThreshold) {
				html += '</ul></li> \
				<li id="dsq-drop-more-' + post_id + '" class="dsq-drop-more"><a href="#" onclick="Dsq.Post.dropProfileMore(this, '+ post_id + '); return false"><small>&#9660;</small></a></li> \
				';
			}
			return html;
		};

		return ' \
			<div class="dsq-header-avatar" id="dsq-header-avatar-' + post_id + '" onmouseover="Dsq.Post.dropProfile(' + post_id + ')"> \
				<a id="dsq-avatar-' + post_id + '" class="dsq-avatar" href="' + userData.url + '" onclick="Dsq.Popup.popProfile(' + post_id + '); return false;">'
			+ (Dsq.jsonData.forum.show_avatar
				? '<img src="' + Dsq.jsonData.users[_meta.user_key].avatar + '" alt="" />'
				: '')
			+ '</a>'
			+ '</div> \
		';
	};

	this.postAppendHeader = function(post_id) {
		var _meta = Dsq.jsonData.posts[post_id];

		return ''
			+ (_meta.author_is_moderator
				? '<img class="dsq-mod-star" src="http://media.disqus.com/images/bullet-star.png" title="Moderator" alt="" />'
				: '')
			+ '<span class="dsq-header-meta"> \
				<a id="dsq-time-' + post_id + '" class="dsq-header-time" href="#comment-' + post_id + '" title="Permalink">' + _meta.date + '</a> \
			</span>';
	};

	this.preBody = function(post_id) {
		return '';
	}

	this.postBody = function(post_id) {
		// TODO: Deprecate flagging conditional
		var _meta = Dsq.jsonData.posts[post_id];
		return ''
			+ (_meta.edited
				? '<p class="dsq-editedtxt">(Edited by a moderator)</p>'
				: '')
			;
	};

	this.postFooter = function(post_id) {
		// TODO: Use media should be conditional
		var _meta = Dsq.jsonData.posts[post_id];
		if(_meta.killed) { return ''; }

		return ' \
			<div class="dsq-comment-footer" id="dsq-comment-footer-' + post_id + '"> \
				<div id="dsq-points-' + post_id + '" class="dsq-likedtxt">'
				+ (_meta.points
					? _meta.points + Dsq.Utils.pluralize(_meta.points, ' person', ' people') + ' liked this comment.'
					: '')
				+ '</div>'
				+ '<ul class="dsq-comment-options dsq-list-style">'
				+ (_meta.votable
					? '<li class="dsq-list-first dsq-rate" id="dsq-rate-cont-' + post_id + '">'
					+ (!_meta.up_voted
						? '<a href="#" onclick="Dsq.Post.rate(this, ' + post_id + ', 1); return false;">Like</a>'
						: 'You liked this.') + '</li>'
					: '')
				+ '<li class="dsq-report' + (!_meta.votable ? ' dsq-list-first' : '') + '" id="dsq-post-report-' + post_id + '"><a href="#" class="dsq-post-report" onclick="Dsq.Post.report(' + post_id + ', false); return false;">Report</a></li> \
				</ul> \
				<ul class="dsq-list-style">'
				+ (_meta.can_reply
					? '<li class="dsq-list-first"><a href="#" id="dsq-reply-link-' + post_id +'" onclick="Dsq.Post.toggleReply(this, ' + post_id +'); return false;">Reply</a></li>'
					: '')
				+ (_meta.can_reply && !_meta.has_replies && _meta.from_request_user
					? '<li id="dsq-edit-el-' + post_id + '"><a id="dsq-edit-link-' + post_id + '" href="#" onclick="Dsq.Post.edit(this, ' + post_id + '); return false;">Edit</a></li>'
					: '')
				+ '<li class="' + (!_meta.can_reply ? 'dsq-list-first' : '') + '" id="dsq-more-el-' + post_id + '"><a id="dsq-more-link-' + post_id + '" href="#" onclick="Dsq.Post.showMenu(this, ' + post_id + ', \'more\'); return false">More <small>&#9660;</small></a></li>'
				+ (Dsq.jsonData.forum.use_media
					? '<li id="dsq-media-el-' + post_id +'" style="display:none"><a id="dsq-media-link-' + post_id + '" href="#" onclick="Dsq.Post.showMenu(this, ' + post_id + ', \'media\'); return false">Use Media <small>&#9660;</small></a></li>'
					: '')
				+ '</ul>'
				+ '<div id="dsq-reply-bar-' + post_id + '" class="dsq-reply-bar" style="display:none"> \
						<div id="dsq-reply-bar-items-' + post_id + '" class="dsq-reply-bar-items"> \
						</div> \
						<div id="dsq-reply-bar-auth-' + post_id + '" class="dsq-reply-bar-auth"> \
							 \
								 \
									<a href="#" class="dsq-help dsq-reply-req-opt" title="You must log into an account in order to comment on Jack and Jill Politics" onclick="Dsq.Popup.helpBadges(); return false">Required:</a> \
								 \
								<img class="dsq-login-icon" src="http://media.disqus.com/images/dsq-favicon-16x16.png" alt="" /> \
								<a id="dsq-reply-login-' + post_id + '" href="http://disqus.com/profile/login/?next=article:7055796" onclick="Dsq.Popup.login(); return false">Login</a> \
								 \
									&nbsp;or&nbsp; \
									<img class="fb_login_image" src="http://static.ak.fbcdn.net/images/fbconnect/login-buttons/connect_light_small_short.gif" alt="Facebook Connect"/> \
									<a href="#" onclick="FB.Connect.requireSession(DisqusFbcParentController.onLogin); return false;">Connect</a> \
								 \
								&nbsp;or&nbsp; \
									<img src="http://media.disqus.com/images/twitter-signin-icon.png" alt="" /> \
									<a href="#" onclick="Dsq.Twitter.startTwitterConnect(); return false">Sign-in</a> \
								 \
								 \
							 \
						</div> \
					</div> \
					<div id="dsq-reply-' + post_id + '"></div> \
			</div> \
		';
	};

	//
	// Iframes
	//

	this._makeAttributes = function(attributes) {
		// Makes a tag attributes string out of an object.
		// Caller is responsible for making sure nothing needs to be escaped.
		var result = [];
		for (key in attributes) {
			result.push(' ' + key + '="' + attributes[key] + '"');
		}
		result = result.join('');
		return result;
	};

	this._frameGeneric = function(base_url, params, attributes) {
		if(typeof(disqus_callback_params) == 'undefined') {
			disqus_callback_params = '';
		}

		var default_params = {
			// TODO: These should be moved to Dsq.jsonData.
			'f'				: 'jackandjillpolitics',
			't'				: 'i_have_questions_about_gay_marriage',
			// Do we need encodeURIComponent here?
			'ifrs'			: encodeURIComponent(disqus_iframe_css),
			'to_redirect'	: encodeURIComponent(window.location),
			'cbp'			: disqus_callback_params,
			'ff'			: Dsq.Thread.ff,
			'fc'			: Dsq.Thread.fc,
			'ac'			: Dsq.Thread.ac,
			'default_text'	: disqus_default_text
		};

		base_url += '?' + (new Date()).getTime();
		// Add params to default_params.
		if(params) {
			for(var key in params) {
				if(params.hasOwnProperty(key)) {
					default_params[key] = encodeURIComponent(params[key]);
				}
			}
		}
		// Build querystring.
		for(var key in default_params) {
			if(default_params[key] && default_params.hasOwnProperty(key)) {
				base_url += '&' + key + '=' + default_params[key];
			}
		}

		return [
			'<iframe marginwidth="0" marginheight="0" hspace="0" vspace="0" frameborder="0"',
			(' allowtransparency="true" src="' + base_url + '"'),
			this._makeAttributes(attributes),
			'</iframe>'].join('');
	};

	this.frameLogin = function(opt_attributes) {
		var params = {};
		var base_url = 'http://disqus.com/embed/login.html';
		var attributes = opt_attributes || {};
		attributes['class'] = 'dsq-post-login';

		if(typeof disqus_frame_theme != 'undefined') {
			params['theme'] = disqus_frame_theme;
		}
		return this._frameGeneric(base_url, params, attributes);
	};

	this.frameReply = function(post_id, extra_params, attributes) {
		// Returns the HTML for a reply iframe. Called by Dsq.Iframes.setReplyIframeToContainer
		var _meta = (typeof post_id != 'undefined') ? Dsq.jsonData.posts[post_id] : false;
		var base_url = Dsq.Urls.REPLY;
		var params = {
			'def_email'		: disqus_def_email,
			'def_name'		: disqus_def_name
		};
		if(extra_params) {
			for(var key in extra_params) {
				if(extra_params.hasOwnProperty(key)) {
					params[key] = extra_params[key];
				}
			}
		}
		if(_meta) {
			params['parent_post'] = post_id;
		}
		if(typeof disqus_per_page != 'undefined') {
			params['per_page'] = disqus_per_page;
		}
		if(typeof disqus_frame_theme != 'undefined') {
			params['theme'] = disqus_frame_theme;
		}
		if(Dsq.jsonData.request.is_authenticated) {
			attributes['class'] += '-authenticated';
		}
		return this._frameGeneric(base_url, params, attributes);
	};

	this.frameEdit = function(post_id) {
		var _meta = (typeof post_id != 'undefined') ? Dsq.jsonData.posts[post_id] : false;
		var base_url = 'http://disqus.com/embed/edit.html';
		var params = {
			'p' : post_id
		};
		return this._frameGeneric(base_url, params, {'class': 'dsq-post-edit', 'name': 'dsq-edit_' + post_id + '-frame'});
	};

	//
	// Menus
	//

	this.menuMore = function(post_id) {
		// TODO: "Remove post" button should hide menu.
		var _meta = Dsq.jsonData.posts[post_id];
		var userData = Dsq.jsonData['users'][_meta.user_key];
		return ' \
			<li><a href="#comment-' + post_id + '" onclick="Dsq.Popup.permalink(' + post_id + ')">Link</a></li> \
			<li><a href="#" onclick="Dsq.Popup.popProfile(' + post_id + '); return false;">Profile</a></li>'
	+ (Dsq.jsonData.request.is_moderator || Dsq.jsonData.request.is_global_moderator
		? '	<li class="dsq-menu-sep"></li>' + (_meta.email ? '<li class="dsq-admin-email">' + _meta.email + '</li>' : '')
		+ '	<li class="dsq-admin-ip">' + _meta.ip + '</li> \
			<li class="dsq-menu-sep"></li>'
		+ (Dsq.jsonData.request.moderator_can_edit
			? ' <li class="dsq-admin-edit"><a href="#" onclick="Dsq.Post.edit(this, ' + post_id + '); return false;">Edit Comment</a></li>'
			: '')
		+ ' <li class="dsq-remove"><a href="#" onclick="Dsq.Post.removePost(' + post_id + ', 1); return false;">Remove Comment</a></li> \
			<li class="dsq-report-spam"><a href="#" onclick="Dsq.Post.reportSpam(' + post_id + '); return false;">Mark Spam</a></li> \
			<li class="dsq-block-user"><a href="#" onclick="Dsq.Popup.blacklist(' + post_id + '); return false">Block User</a></li>'
		: '');
	};

	this.menuMedia = function(post_id) {
		return ' \
			<li><a href="#" onclick="Dsq.Post.toggleMediaReply(this, ' + post_id + ', \'seesmic\'); return false;">Record video</a></li> \
		';
	};

	this.dropProfile = function(post_id) {
		var _meta = Dsq.jsonData.posts[post_id];
		var userData = Dsq.jsonData['users'][_meta.user_key];

		var _includeServices = function() {
			var userServices = Dsq.Post.getUserServices(null, post_id);
			var html = '';
			var hiddenThreshold = 3; // Define # of services to show before stuffing them in hidden div

			for(var i = 0; i < userServices.length; i++) {
				html +=
				(i == hiddenThreshold
					? '<li id="dsq-drop-hidden-' + post_id +'" class="dsq-drop-hidden"><ul>'
					: '')
				+ '<li class="dsq-drop-services"> \
					<a class="dsq-service-' + userServices[i].name.toLowerCase() + '" href="' + userServices[i].url + '" target="_blank"> \
						<img src="' + Dsq.jsonData.media_url + '/images/embed/services/' + userServices[i].name.toLowerCase() + '.png" alt="' + userServices[i].name.toLowerCase() + '">'
					+ userServices[i].name
					+ '</a> \
				</li>';
			}

			if(i >= hiddenThreshold) {
				html += '</ul></li> \
				<li id="dsq-drop-more-' + post_id + '" class="dsq-drop-more"><a href="#" onclick="Dsq.Post.dropProfileMore(this, '+ post_id + '); return false"><small>&#9660;</small></a></li> \
				';
			}
			return html;
		};


		var menu = '<li class="dsq-drop-showlnk"><a href="#" onclick="Dsq.Popup.popProfile(' + post_id + '); return false;">Expand &#8663;</a></li>';
		var pointsMessage = '';
		if (userData['registered']) {
			pointsMessage = 'with ' + userData['points'] + ' points (more points are better).';
		}

		if (userData['is_remote']) {
			var domain = userData['remote_domain_name'];
			menu += '<li class="dsq-drop-badge" title="' + userData['display_name'] + ' is a ' + domain + ' user ' + pointsMessage + '" onclick="Dsq.Popup.helpBadges()">';
			menu += '<span class="dsq-badge-' + domain.toLowerCase() + '">' + domain + '</span></li>';
		} else if (userData['registered']) {
			if (userData['verified']) {
				menu += '<li class="dsq-drop-badge" title="' + userData['display_name'] + ' has a verified commenter profile ' + pointsMessage + '" onclick="Dsq.Popup.helpBadges()">';
				menu += '<span class="dsq-badge-verified">Verified</span></li>';
			} else {
				menu += '<li class="dsq-drop-badge" title="' + userData['display_name'] + ' has a registered, but unverified, commenter profile ' + pointsMessage + '" onclick="Dsq.Popup.helpBadges()">';
				menu += '<span class="dsq-badge-registered">Registered</span></li>';
			}
		} else {
			menu += '<li class="dsq-drop-badge" title="' + userData['display_name'] + ' has not claimed this commenter profile." onclick="Dsq.Popup.helpBadges()"><span class="dsq-badge-guest">Guest</span></li>';
		}

		menu += _includeServices();
		return menu;
	};

	//
	// Popups
	//

	this._popupGeneric = function(content) {
		return ' \
		<div class="dsq-popup-content"> \
			<div class="dsq-popup-top"></div> \
			<div class="dsq-popup-body" class="clearfix"> \
				<div class="dsq-popup-body-padding"> \
					<div class="dsq-popup-header"> \
						<a class="dsq-close-link" href="#" onclick="Dsq.Popup._closePopup(null, true); return false"><img src="http://media.disqus.com/images/modal-close.png" alt="" /></a>'
						+ content['header']
					+ '</div>'
					+ content['body']
					+ '<div class="powered-by"><a href="http://disqus.com/comments/">Powered by <img src="http://media.disqus.com/images/embed/disqus-logo.png" alt="Disqus Comments" style="margin-bottom:-5px" /></a></div> \
				</div> <!-- padding --> \
			</div> <!-- body --> \
			<div class="dsq-popup-bottom"></div> \
		</div> \
		';
	};

	this.popupProfile = function(user_key) {
		var userServices = Dsq.Post.getUserServices(user_key, null);
		var userData = Dsq.jsonData['users'][user_key];
		var headerHtml = '';
		var bodyHtml = '';
		var content = {};

		var _includeServices = function() {
			var html = '';
			for(var i = 0; i < userServices.length; i++) {
				html +=
				(i == 0
					? '<h4>Connections</h4><ul>'
					: '')
				+ '<li> \
					<img src="' + Dsq.jsonData.media_url + '/images/embed/services/' + userServices[i].name.toLowerCase() + '.png" alt="' + userServices[i].name.toLowerCase() + '" title="' + userServices[i].name.toLowerCase() + '" /> \
					<a class="dsq-service-' + userServices[i].name.toLowerCase() + '" href="' + userServices[i].url + '" target="_blank">'
					+ userServices[i].name
					+ '</a> \
				</li>'
				+ (i+1 == userServices.length ? '</ul>' : '');
			}
			return html;
		};

		headerHtml = ' \
			<table> \
				<tr> \
					<td> \
						<a class="dsq-profile-userurl" href="' + userData.url + '"><img class="dsq-popup-profile-avatar" src="' + userData['avatar'] + '" alt="" /></a> \
					</td> \
					<td> \
						<div class="dsq-popup-profile-user"> \
							<h3>' + userData['display_name'] + '</h3> \
							<div class="dsq-popup-profile-user-stats" id="dsq-popup-profile-user-stats-' + user_key + '">Loading...</div> \
						</div> \
					</td> \
				</tr> \
			</table> \
		';

		bodyHtml = ' \
			<div class="dsq-popup-profile-state"> \
				This is a&nbsp;<span class="'
					+ (userData['registered']
						? (userData['verified']
							? ' dsq-badge-verified'
							: (userData['is_remote']
								? ' dsq-badge-' + userData['remote_domain_name'].toLowerCase()
								: ' dsq-badge-registered')
							)
							: ' dsq-badge-guest') + '">'
			+ (userData['registered']
				? (userData['verified']
					? 'Verified'
					: (userData['is_remote']
						 ? userData['remote_domain_name']
						 : 'Registered')
					)
				: 'Guest')
			+ '</span>&nbsp;commenter profile.'
			+ '&nbsp;<a class="dsq-profile-userurl" href="' + userData.url + '"><strong>View more comments </strong></a>'
			+ (!userData['points']
				? '<p class="dsq-popup-notice">If this is you, <a href="http://disqus.com/profile" target="_blank">claim it now</a> to manage your comments.</p>'
				: '')
			+ ((userData['registered'] && !userData['verified'] && (Dsq.jsonData.request.username && (Dsq.jsonData.request.username == userData['username'])) && !userData['is_remote'])
				? '<p class="dsq-popup-notice"><strong>Alert</strong>: You have not verified this account. <a href="http://disqus.com/verify">Verify it now.</a></p>'
				: '')
			+ '</div> \
			<div id="dsq-profile-status-' + user_key + '" class="dsq-popup-profile-status" style="display:none"></div> \
			<div class="dsq-popup-profile-snapshot"> \
				<table> \
					<tr> \
						<td> \
							<div id="dsq-popup-profile-active-sites-wrapper-' + user_key + '"> \
								<h4>Most active sites</h4> \
								<ul id="dsq-popup-profile-active-sites-' + user_key + '"> \
									<li>Loading...</li> \
								</ul> \
							</div> \
						</td> \
						<td>'
							+ _includeServices()
							+ '<div id="dsq-popup-profile-moderated-wrapper-' + user_key + '"> \
								<h4>Moderator of</h4> \
								<ul id="dsq-popup-profile-moderated-' + user_key + '"> \
									<li>Loading...</li> \
								</ul> \
							</div> \
						</td> \
					</tr> \
				</table> \
			</div> \
			';

		content = {
			'header': headerHtml,
			'body': bodyHtml
		};

		return this._popupGeneric(content);
	};

	this.popupReblog = function() {
		var headerHtml = '';
		var bodyHtml = '';
		var content = {};

		headerHtml = ' \
			<cite><span>Reblog this comment</span></cite> \
		';

		bodyHtml = ' \
			<div id="dsq-reblog-form" class="dsq-reblog-form"> \
			</div> \
		';

		content = {
			'header': headerHtml,
			'body': bodyHtml
		};

		return this._popupGeneric(content);
	};

	this.popupModal = function(title, message) {
		var headerHtml = '';
		var bodyHtml = '';
		var content = {};

		headerHtml = ' \
			<h3>' + title + '</h3> \
		';

		bodyHtml = message;

		content = {
			'header': headerHtml,
			'body': bodyHtml
		};

		return this._popupGeneric(content);
	};

	this.alertContent = function(name, post_id) {
		var alert = {
			'post_not_approved': {
				'title': 'Comment awaiting approval by a moderator',
				'message': 'Thanks for posting. Your comment must be approved by a moderator before appearing here.'
			},
			'post_has_profile': {
				'title': 'Use your existing commenter profile',
				'message': 'You have just posted your commment as a <span class="dsq-badge dsq-badge-guest">Guest</span>, but you may already have a <span class="dsq-badge dsq-badge-registered">Registered</span> commenter profile.<br /><br /><a href="http://disqus.com/claim">Log in and claim this comment!</a>'
			}
		};
		return alert[name] || false;
	};

	//
	// Actions
	//

	this.voted = function(post_id, points, vote) {
		// Update number of points
		Dsq.$('dsq-points-' + post_id).innerHTML = points + Dsq.Utils.pluralize(points, ' person', ' people') + ' liked this comment.';

		// Update link text
		if(vote) {
			Dsq.$('dsq-rate-cont-' + post_id).innerHTML = 'You liked this.';
		}
	};

	this.subscribed = function(status) {
		var title, message;

		if(status) {
			title = 'Subscribed!';
			message = 'You have subscribed to this comment thread. New comments will be sent directly to your email inbox, where you may read and respond by email.';
			Dsq.$('dsq-subscribe').innerHTML = ' \
				<a href="#" onclick="Dsq.Thread.subscribe(0); return false">Unsubscribe</a> \
			';
		} else {
			title = 'Unsubscribed';
			message = 'You have unsubscribed to this comment thread. New comments will no longer be sent to your email inbox.';
			Dsq.$('dsq-subscribe').innerHTML = ' \
				<a href="#" onclick="Dsq.Thread.subscribe(1); return false">Subscribe by email</a> \
			';
		}

		Dsq.Popup.popModal(message, title);

	};
	
	this.highlighted = function() {
		Dsq.Popup.popModal('This comment has been highlighted.', 'Highlighted comment');
	};

	//
	// Media
	//

	this.mediaSeesmic = function(id, thumb) {
		return ' \
			<div id="dsq-seesmic-' + id + '_preview" class="dsq-seesmic-preview"><a href="http://www.seesmic.com/video/' + id + '" target="_blank" class="see_link">&nbsp;</a> \
				<div style="display:block;width:160px; height:120px; border:none; background-image:url(http://t.seesmic.com/thumbnail/' + thumb + ')"> \
					<div id="dsq-seesmic-' + id + '_hide" class="seePlayOverlay" style="display:none;"><img onclick="see_play_video(\'' + id + '\',false)" src="http://media.disqus.com/images/seesmic/stopOverlay.png" width="50" height="50" style="cursor:pointer; cursor:hand; padding-top: 30px; padding-left: 50px" alt="" /></div> \
					<div id="dsq-seesmic-' + id + '_show" class="seePlayOverlay"><img onclick="see_play_video(\'' + id + '\',true)" src="http://media.disqus.com/images/seesmic/playOverlay.png" width="50" height="50" style="cursor:pointer; cursor:hand; border:none; padding-top: 30px; padding-left: 50px" alt="" /></div> \
				</div> \
			</div> \
			<div id="' + id + '_content" style="display:block; width:100%; padding-top:5px"></div> \
		';
	};

	//
	// Callbacks
	//

	this.postComment_onSuccess = function(parent_post_id) {
		// Increment post count
		var num_posts = Dsq.$('dsq-num-posts');
		var total_posts = Dsq.$('dsq-total-posts');
		
		if (num_posts) { 
			num_posts.innerHTML = parseInt(num_posts.innerHTML) + 1;
		}
		if (total_posts) { 
			total_posts.innerHTML = parseInt(total_posts.innerHTML) + 1;
		}
	};
};
// Dsq.Templates


/**
 * Dsq.Post
 */
Dsq.Post = new function() {
	this.openedMenu = {};
	this.menuEventListener = null;
	this.stateReplyToggled = {};
	this.stateEditToggled = {};
	this.stateRecordLink = {};

	/**
	 * Inserts a new post into the document.
	 *
	 * @param after_id {Number}	Insert a post before specified id.  If after_id
	 *							evaluates to false, then post in the front.  If
	 *							after_id is -1, post at the end.
	 */
	this.insert = function(after_id, id, message, author) {
		// Skeleton template from thread_posts.html.
		var skeleton = ' \
			<li id="dsq-comment-%(id)s"> \
				<div id="dsq-comment-header-%(id)s" class="dsq-comment-header"> \
					<cite id="dsq-cite-%(id)s" class="dsq-comment-cite"> \
						<a id="dsq-author-user-%(id)s" href="%(author_url)s" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">%(author_name)s</a> \
					</cite> \
				</div> \
				<div id="dsq-comment-body-%(id)s" class="dsq-comment-body"> \
					<div id="dsq-comment-message-%(id)s" class="dsq-comment-message">%(message)s</div> \
				</div> \
			</li> \
		';
		var _meta = Dsq.jsonData.posts[id];
		var _user_meta = Dsq.jsonData.users[_meta.user_key];
		var markup = Dsq.Utils.interpolate(skeleton, {
			id: id,
			message: message,
			author_url: _user_meta.blog,
			author_name: _user_meta.display_name
		});
		var div = document.createElement('div');
		markup = markup.replace(Dsq.COMMENTS_RE, Dsq.CommentsHandler);
		div.innerHTML = markup;

		if (after_id === -1) {
			Dsq.$('dsq-comments').appendChild(div);
		} else if (!after_id) {
			Dsq.$('dsq-comments').insertBefore(div, Dsq.$('dsq-comments').firstChild);
		} else if (Dsq.$('dsq-comment-' + after_id)) {
			// Get next node after "after_id", so we can insert before it.
			// If "after_id" is the last comment, the target node is the
			// last node.
			
			// var append_post_id = Dsq.Templates.appendPost(after_id).replace('<div id="','').replace('"></div>', '');
			var append_post_id = 'dsq-append-post-' + after_id;
			var node = Dsq.$(append_post_id);
			while (node = node.nextSibling) {
				if (!node || node.nodeType == 1) { // 1 == Node.ELEMENT_NODE
					break;
				}
			}
			if (!node) {
				node = Dsq.$(append_post_id);
			}
			node.parentNode.insertBefore(div, node);
		}
	};

	this.incrementPostCount = function() {
		
		var num_posts = Dsq.$('dsq-num-posts');
		var total_posts = Dsq.$('dsq-total-posts');

		if (num_posts) {
			num_posts.innerHTML = parseInt(num_posts.innerHTML, 10) + 1;
		}
		if (total_posts) {
			total_posts.innerHTML = parseInt(total_posts.innerHTML, 10) + 1;
		}
	}
	
	this.outlineComment = function(post_id) {
		Dsq.$('dsq-comment-' + post_id).className += ' dsq-comment-outline';
		setTimeout("(function () { Dsq.Post.clearOutlineComment(" + post_id + ") })()", 3000);
	};
	
	this.clearOutlineComment = function(post_id) {
		Dsq.$('dsq-comment-' + post_id).className = Dsq.$('dsq-comment-' + post_id).className.replace('dsq-comment-outline', '');
	};

	this.showMenu = function(el, id, name) {
		var anchorPos = Dsq.Utils.findPos(el);
		var menu = document.createElement('ul');

		if(this.openedMenu) {
			if(this.openedMenu.linkClicked) {
				this.openedMenu.linkClicked = false;
				return;
			}
		}

		switch(name) {
			case 'more':
				menu.innerHTML = Dsq.Templates.menuMore(id);
				break;
			case 'media':
				menu.innerHTML = Dsq.Templates.menuMedia(id);
				break;
			default:
				break;
		}

		// Add menu to document body
		menu.id = 'dsq-menu-' + id;
		menu.className = 'dsq-menu';
		Dsq.$b.appendChild(menu);

		// Position and show
		anchorPos[1] += 15;
		menu.style.left = anchorPos[0] + 'px';
		menu.style.top = anchorPos[1] + 'px';
		menu.style.display = 'block';

		// Set global reference
		this.openedMenu = {
			'el' : menu,
			'id' : id,
			'name' : name,
			'linkClicked' : false
		};

		// Set listener
		this.menuEventListener = Dsq.Utils.addEventListener(document, 'mouseup', this._hideMenu);
	};

	this._hideMenu = function(e) {
		var el = e.target || e.srcElement;
		var openedMenu = Dsq.Post.openedMenu.el;
		var id = Dsq.Post.openedMenu.id;

		if(!id) {
			var link = 'dsq-' + Dsq.Post.openedMenu.name + '-link';
		} else {
			var link = 'dsq-' + Dsq.Post.openedMenu.name + '-link-' + id;
		}

		if(!openedMenu) {
			return;
		}

		if(!Dsq.Popup.isClicked(e, openedMenu.id)) {
			openedMenu.style.display = 'none';
			Dsq.Utils.removeEventListener(Dsq.Post.menuEventListener);
			Dsq.Utils.deleteNode(openedMenu);

		} else {
			// Hide the menu if a link was clicked inside the menu.  We can't
			// completely remove the menu until the onclick event on the link
			// fires, but the menuEventListener will prevent multiple menus
			// from polluting the DOM.
			if(el && typeof el.href != 'undefined') {
				openedMenu.style.display = 'none';
				Dsq.Post.openedMenu.el = null;
			}
		}

		if(Dsq.Popup.isClicked(e, link)) {
 			Dsq.Post.openedMenu.linkClicked = true;
		}
	};


	this.getUserServices = function(user_key, id) {
		if(!user_key && id) {
			var _meta = Dsq.jsonData.posts[id];
			user_key = _meta.user_key;
		}
		var userData = Dsq.jsonData['users'][user_key];
		var userServices = [];

		// Keep a full list of supported services. This is the order they will display in the drop-profile.
		// Each service must have a corresponding case in _buildServiceUrl()
		var supportedServices = ['blog', 'twitter', 'facebook', 'tumblr'];

		function _buildServiceUrl(serviceName) {
			var data = userData[serviceName];
			var services = {
				blog:		function(d) { return d; },
				twitter:	function(d) { return d; },
				facebook:	function(d) { return d; },
				tumblr:		function(d) { return 'http://' + d + '.tumblr.com'; }
			};
			return services[serviceName](data);
		}

		for(var i = 0; i < supportedServices.length; i++) {
			if(userData[supportedServices[i]]) {
				var serviceUrl = _buildServiceUrl(supportedServices[i]);
				userServices.push({'name' : supportedServices[i], 'url' : serviceUrl});
			}
		}
		return userServices;
	}

	this.dropProfile = function(id) {
		var dp = Dsq.$('dsq-drop-profile-' + id);

		// IE6 needs JS to display/hide. All other browsers use CSS.
		if(dp) {
			if(Dsq.Utils.ie6) dp.style.display = (dp.style.display == 'inline') ? 'none' : 'inline';
			return false;
		} else {
			dp = document.createElement('ul');
		}

		dp.id = 'dsq-drop-profile-' + id;
		dp.className = 'dsq-drop-profile';

		if(Dsq.Utils.ie6) { dp.style.display = 'inline'; }

		var container = Dsq.$('dsq-header-avatar-' + id);
		dp.innerHTML = Dsq.Templates.dropProfile(id);
		container.appendChild(dp);
	};

	this.dropProfileMore = function(el, id) {
		var hiddenItems = Dsq.$('dsq-drop-hidden-' + id);

		hiddenItems.style.display = 'inline';
		el.parentNode.style.display = 'none';
	};

	this._updateReplyLinks = function(el, id) {
		// Update "reply / cancel" links based on state.
		var displayDict = {};

		if(id) {
			if(this.stateReplyToggled[id]) {
				el.innerHTML = 'Cancel';
				displayDict['media'] = 'inline';
				displayDict['edit'] = 'none';
			} else {
				el.innerHTML = 'Reply';
				displayDict['media'] = 'none';
				displayDict['edit'] = 'inline';
			}
		}

		for(var key in displayDict) {
			if(displayDict.hasOwnProperty(key)) {
				var	linkEl = Dsq.$('dsq-' + key + '-el-' + id),
					spacer = Dsq.$('dsq-' + key + '-spacer-' + id);

				if(linkEl) {
					linkEl.style.display = displayDict[key];
					if(spacer) spacer.style.display = displayDict[key];
				}
			}
		}
	};

	this._updateMediaLinks = function(el, id) {
		// Update "use media / cancel" links based on state.
		var appendId = (id) ? ('-' + id) : '';
		var link = Dsq.$('dsq-media-link' + appendId);

		if(this.stateRecordLink[id]) {
			link.innerHTML = 'Cancel Media';
			link.onclick = function() { Dsq.Post.toggleMediaReply(link, id); return false; };
		} else {
			link.innerHTML = 'Use Media <small>&#9660;</small>';
			link.onclick = function() { Dsq.Post.showMenu(link, id, 'media'); return false; };
		}
	};

	this.toggleReply = function(el, id) {
		// Create reply IFrame
		if (window.disqus_use_postmessage) {
			if (!this.stateReplyToggled[id]) {
				Dsq.$('dsq-reply-' + id).style.display = 'block';
				Dsq.$('dsq-reply-bar-' + id).style.display = 'block';
				// Create IFrame if it doesn't exist.
				if (!Dsq.frames['reply_' + id]) {
					var _meta = Dsq.jsonData.posts[id];
					Dsq.frames['reply_' + id] = new Dsq.ReplyFrame(Dsq.$('dsq-reply-frame-' + id), id);
					Dsq.frames['reply_' + id].init();
					Dsq.frames['reply_' + id].setState(id, _meta.depth);
				}
			} else {
				Dsq.$('dsq-reply-' + id).style.display = 'none';
				Dsq.$('dsq-reply-bar-' + id).style.display = 'none';
			}
		} else {
			// DEPRECATED
			if(!this.stateReplyToggled[id]) {
				// Reply toolbar
				Dsq.$('dsq-reply-bar-' + id).style.display = 'block';
				Dsq.Iframes.showReplyIframeInContainerIfAllowed(Dsq.$('dsq-reply-' + id), id);
			} else {
				Dsq.$('dsq-reply-bar-' + id).style.display = 'none';
				Dsq.Iframes.hideAllInContainer(Dsq.$('dsq-reply-' + id));
				if(this.stateRecordLink[id]) {
					// HACK: Cancel media before canceling self.
					this.toggleMediaReply(Dsq.$('dsq-media-link-' + id), id);
				}
			}
		}

		this.stateReplyToggled[id] = !this.stateReplyToggled[id];
		this._updateReplyLinks(el, id);

		if(Dsq.Utils.ie) { Dsq.Utils.fixIframesIE('dsq-reply-' + id); }

		Dsq.Events.fire(Dsq.Events.REPLY_IFRAME_TOGGLED, {
			postId: id,
			opened: this.stateReplyToggled[id]
		});
	};

	this.toggleMediaReply = function(el, id, xtype) {
		id = id || 0;
		if(id) {
			var container = Dsq.$('dsq-reply-' + id);
		} else {
			var container = Dsq.$('dsq-post-add');
		}

		if(!this.stateRecordLink[id]) {
			Dsq.Iframes.showReplyIframeInContainer(container, id, {xtype:xtype}, 'dsq-post-video');
		} else {
			Dsq.Iframes.showReplyIframeInContainer(container, id);
		}
		this.stateRecordLink[id] = !this.stateRecordLink[id];
		this._updateMediaLinks(el, id);

		if(Dsq.Utils.ie) { Dsq.Utils.fixIframesIE(); }
	};

	this.edit = function(el, id) {
		Dsq.$('dsq-comment-message-' + id).innerHTML = Dsq.Templates.frameEdit(id);
		el.parentNode.style.display = 'none';
		if(Dsq.Utils.ie) { Dsq.Utils.fixIframesIE('dsq-comment-message-' + id); }
	};

    this.rate = function(el, id, vote) {
		if(Dsq.jsonData.request.is_authenticated || Dsq.jsonData.forum.allow_anon_votes) {
			if(vote == 1) {
                Dsq.$('dsq-rate-cont-' + id).innerHTML = '<img src="http://media.disqus.com/images/loading-small.gif">';
            }

            Dsq.Utils.execScript('http://disqus.com/forums/jackandjillpolitics/vote.js'
                + '?post_id='    + id
                + '&vote='        + vote);

		} else {
			Dsq.Popup.login(Dsq.Strings.TO_RATE_PLEASE_LOG_IN);
		}
    };

	this.report = function(id, confirmed) {
		if(confirmed) {
			Dsq.Utils.postToUrl('http://disqus.com/forums/jackandjillpolitics/i_have_questions_about_gay_marriage/post_report/', {'post_id': id});
			Dsq.Popup.popModal('Thank you. This comment has been flagged for moderator attention.', 'Successfully flagged');
			Dsq.Utils.deleteNode(Dsq.$('dsq-post-report-' + id));
		} else {
			var title = Dsq.Strings.FLAG_INAPPROPRIATE_COMMENT;
			var message = Dsq.Strings.ARE_YOU_SURE_YOU_WOULD_LIKE_TO_REPORT_THIS_COMMENT_TO_A_MODERATOR + '? \
			<br /><br /> \
			<button onclick="Dsq.Popup._closePopup(null, true)"><strong>' + Dsq.Strings.NO + '</strong>, ' + Dsq.Strings.NEVER_MIND + '</button>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<button onclick="Dsq.Post.report(' + id + ', true);"><strong>' + Dsq.Strings.YES + '</strong>, ' + Dsq.Strings.FLAG_INAPPROPRIATE_COMMENT + '</button><br /><br />'
			+ Dsq.Strings.THIS_WILL_FLAG_COMMENTS_FOR_MODERATORS_TO_TAKE_ACTION + '. \
			';

			Dsq.Popup.popModal(message, title, id);
		}
	};



	this.showAlert = function(id, msg) {
		var msgEl = Dsq.$('dsq-comment-message-' + id);
		var alert = '<div class="dsq-comment-alert">' + msg + '</div>';

		msgEl.innerHTML = alert + msgEl.innerHTML;
	};

};
// Dsq.Post


/**
 * Dsq.Thread
 */
Dsq.Thread = new function() {
	this.fc = null;
	this.ff = null;
	this.ac = null;

	
	this.adminIsOn = false;

	
	
	

	this.hlComment = null;
	this.hlCommentClass = null;

	this.getNextComment = function(el) {
		var start_id = el.id;
		while(el = el.nextSibling) {
			if(el.id && el.id.indexOf('dsq-comment-') != -1 && el.id != start_id) {
				return el;
			}
		}
		return null;
	};

	this.getActiveCommentId = function() {
		if (document.URL.indexOf('#comment-') >= 0) {
			var anchor = document.URL.slice(document.URL.indexOf('#') + 1);
			return anchor.replace('comment-', '');
		}
		return null;
	};

	this.highlightAnchor = function() {
		var i = this.getActiveCommentId();
		if (i == null) return false;
		var id = 'dsq-comment-' + i;
		var hash = window.location.hash;

		// Toggle the hash incase the comment isn't available when the page loads
		// for WebKit-based browsers.
		if (Dsq.Utils.webkit) {
			window.location.hash = '';
			window.location.hash = hash;
		}

		this.hlComment = Dsq.$(id);
		// Adding this conditional guard pending #289
		if (!this.hlComment) {
			return;
		}
		this.hlCommentClass = this.hlComment.className;
		this.hlComment.className += ' dsq-hl-anchor';

		setTimeout("Dsq.Thread.highlightClear()", 3000);
	};

	this.highlightClear = function() {
		if (!this.hlComment) {
			return;
		}
		this.hlComment.className = this.hlCommentClass;
	};

	this.login = function(toggle) {
		// toggle id is #dsq-reply-login-[id]
		var postId;
		if(toggle.id.indexOf('dsq-reply-login') != -1) {
			postId = toggle.id.slice(16);
			var container = Dsq.$('dsq-reply-' + postId);
		} else {
			var container = Dsq.$('dsq-post-add');
		}

		if(toggle) {
			if(toggle.className == 'dsq-login-active') {
				Dsq.Iframes.showReplyIframeInContainerIfAllowed(container, postId);
				toggle.className = '';
			} else {
				Dsq.Iframes.showLoginIframeInContainer(container, postId);
				toggle.className = 'dsq-login-active';
			}
		} else {
			Dsq.Iframes.showLoginIframeInContainer(container, postId);
		}

		if(Dsq.Utils.ie) { Dsq.Utils.fixIframesIE(); }
	};


	this.paginate = function(page, el_clicked, per_page) {
		// Use extra_params to pass any override parameters that we need to persist.
		var extra_params = '';

		// "Per page" can either be overriden by providing it as an argument
		// (per-call) or setting the disqus_per_page override variable (global).
		if(typeof per_page == 'undefined') {
			per_page = null;
		}
		if(typeof disqus_per_page != 'undefined' && per_page === null) {
			per_page = disqus_per_page;
		}

		if(typeof disqus_sort != 'undefined') {
			extra_params += '&sort=' + disqus_sort;
		}
		if(per_page !== null) {
			extra_params += '&per_page=' + per_page;
		}

		Dsq.$('dsq-pagination').innerHTML += '<img src="http://media.disqus.com/images/loading-small.gif">';
		
		if(el_clicked) {
			el_clicked.style.display = 'none';
		}
		
		Dsq.Utils.execScript('http://disqus.com/forums/jackandjillpolitics/thread.js'
			+ '?slug='	+ 'i_have_questions_about_gay_marriage'
			+ '&p='		+ page
			+ extra_params);
	};

	this.sortBy = function(sort) {
		var disqus_script = document.createElement('script');
		var disqus_date = new Date();

		if (location.hash != '') {
			location.hash = '#disqus_thread';
		}

		if(typeof(disqus_url) == 'undefined') {
			disqus_url = disqus_href;
		}
		disqus_script.type = 'text/javascript';
		disqus_script.src = 'http://disqus.com/forums/jackandjillpolitics/thread.js'
			+ '?slug='	+ 'i_have_questions_about_gay_marriage'
			+ '&sort='	+ sort
			+ '&title='
			+ '&'		+ disqus_date.getTime();

		Dsq.$('dsq-comments').innerHTML = '<img src="http://media.disqus.com/images/loading.gif">';
		Dsq.container.appendChild(disqus_script);
	};

	this.subscribe = function(status, email) {
		// `status` is an int -- 1 to subscribe, 0 to unsubscribe
		if(Dsq.jsonData.request.is_authenticated || email) {
			// If authenticated user OR anonymous email provided

			if(email) {
				Dsq.Popup._closePopup(null, true);
			}

			Dsq.Utils.execScript('http://disqus.com/forums/jackandjillpolitics/subscribe.js'
				+'?status=' 	+ status
				+ '&slug='		+ 'i_have_questions_about_gay_marriage'
				+ '&email=' 	+ encodeURIComponent(email));

		} else if(!email) {
			// If anonymous user and no email has been provided yet, prompt for email

			var title = 'Subscribe to this comment thread';
			var message = ' \
				New comments will be sent directly to your email inbox! \
				<div class="dsq-subscribe-submit"> \
					<p><strong>Enter your email address below.</strong></p> \
					<input type="text" id="dsq-subscribe-email"> \
					<button onclick="Dsq.Thread.subscribe(1, Dsq.$(\'dsq-subscribe-email\').value)">Subscribe</button> \
				</div> \
			';

			Dsq.Popup.popModal(message, title);
		}
	};

	this.showSettings = function() {
		if (!Dsq.jsonData.request.is_moderator) {
			return;
		}

		/* The form has to be re-designed when more options will come out. */
		var html = 'Automatically close comments after <input size="3" id="dsq-thread-days-alive" value="' + Dsq.jsonData.thread.days_alive + '" type="text" /> days. Existing comments will still be displayed.<br /><br />(Using 0 days will disable this feature)<br /><br />'
								 + '<button onclick="Dsq.Thread.updateDaysAlive();" class="dsq-button-small"><span>Save</span></button>'
								 + '<span id="dsq-thread-settings-status" class="dsq-options-status"></span>';
		Dsq.Popup.popModal(html, 'Settings');
	};

	this.updateDaysAlive = function() {
		var days = Dsq.$('dsq-thread-days-alive').value;
		var status = Dsq.$('dsq-thread-settings-status');
		Dsq.Utils.postToUrl('http://disqus.com/forums/jackandjillpolitics/update_days_alive.js', {days:days,thread:Dsq.jsonData.thread.id});
		status.innerHTML = 'Saved!';
		window.setTimeout(function() { status.innerHTML = ''; }, 1000);
	};
};
// Dsq.Thread

Dsq.Events = function() {
	var obj = {};

	// Private
	var handlers = {};
	var getHandlers = function(event) {
		if (handlers[event] === undefined) {
			handlers[event] = [];
		}
		return handlers[event];
	};

	// Public
	// Value keys : postId, node, xtype
	obj.REPLY_IFRAME_CREATED = 1;
	// Value keys : postId, opened
	obj.REPLY_IFRAME_TOGGLED = 2;
	obj.fire = function(event, opt_value) {
		if (!event) {
			throw new Error('Unknown event');
		}
		var value = opt_value || {};
		for (var i=0; i<getHandlers(event).length; i++) {
			getHandlers(event)[i](value);
		}
	};
	obj.addHandler = function(event, callback) {
		getHandlers(event).push(callback);
	};

	return obj;
}();

/**
 * Dsq.Realtime
 */
Dsq.Realtime = new function() {
	var initialized = false;
	var interval = null;
	var last_checked = Dsq.jsonData.request.timestamp;
	var new_posts = [];
	var ongoing_request = false;
	var prev_script = null;

	function updateNewPostCount() {
		Dsq.$('dsq-realtime-alert').style.display = new_posts.length ? 'block' : 'none';

		Dsq.$('dsq-realtime-queued').innerHTML = new_posts.length
		+ ' new '
		+ Dsq.Utils.pluralize(new_posts.length, 'comment', 'comments')
		+ Dsq.Utils.pluralize(new_posts.length, ' was', ' were')
		+ ' just posted.';

		Dsq.$('dsq-realtime-show').innerHTML = '(' + Dsq.Strings.SHOW + ')';
	}

	function insertNewPosts() {
		var post_id = null;
		var after_id = Dsq.$('dsq-sort-select').value === 'oldest' ? -1 : null;

		for (var i=0; i<new_posts.length; i++) {
			post_id = new_posts[i];
			Dsq.Post.insert(after_id, post_id, Dsq.jsonData.posts[post_id].message);
			Dsq.Post.incrementPostCount();
			Dsq.Post.outlineComment(post_id);
		}
		new_posts = [];
	}

	this.enableInterval = function() {
		interval = setInterval(Dsq.Realtime.check, Dsq.jsonData.context.realtime_speed);
		Dsq.$('dsq-realtime-status').innerHTML = Dsq.Strings.ENABLED;
		Dsq.$('dsq-realtime-toggle').innerHTML = '(' + Dsq.Strings.PAUSE + ')';
	}

	this.disableInterval = function() {
		if (interval) {
			clearInterval(interval);
			interval = null;
		}
		Dsq.$('dsq-realtime-status').innerHTML = Dsq.Strings.PAUSED;
		Dsq.$('dsq-realtime-toggle').innerHTML = '(' + Dsq.Strings.RESUME + ')';
	}

	this.toggleInterval = function() {
		if (!interval) {
			Dsq.Realtime.enableInterval();
		} else {
			Dsq.Realtime.disableInterval();
		}
		return false;
	}

	this.initialize = function() {
		if (!initialized) {
			initialized = true;
			Dsq.$('dsq-realtime-toggle').onclick = this.toggleInterval;
			if (!Dsq.jsonData.forum.streaming_realtime) {
				Dsq.$('dsq-realtime-show').onclick = this.show;
				updateNewPostCount();
			}
			if (Dsq.jsonData.thread.realtime_paused) {
				Dsq.Realtime.disableInterval();
			} else {
				Dsq.Realtime.enableInterval();
			}
		}
	}

	this.show = function() {
		insertNewPosts();
		updateNewPostCount();
		return false;
	}

	this.check = function() {
		if (!ongoing_request && Dsq.jsonData.realtime_enabled) {
			if (prev_script) {
				prev_script.parentNode.removeChild(prev_script);
			}
			ongoing_request = true;
			prev_script = Dsq.Utils.execScript('http://disqus.com/forums/7055796/realtime.js?timestamp=' + last_checked);
		}
	};

	this.update = function(timestamp, posts, users) {
		ongoing_request = false;
		last_checked = timestamp;

		if (users) {
			for (var user_id in users) {
				if (users.hasOwnProperty(user_id)) {
					if (!Dsq.jsonData.users[user_id]) {
						Dsq.jsonData.users[user_id] = users[user_id];
					}
				}
			}
		}

		if (posts) {
			for (var post_id in posts) {
				if (posts.hasOwnProperty(post_id)) {
					if (!Dsq.jsonData.posts[post_id]) {
						Dsq.jsonData.posts[post_id] = posts[post_id];
						new_posts.push(post_id);
					}
				}
			}

			if (Dsq.jsonData.forum.streaming_realtime) {
				insertNewPosts();
			} else {
				updateNewPostCount();
			}
		}
	};

}();

// DEPRECATED
Dsq.Iframes = function() {
	// Different style of object from the above. Hoping to switch to this for some reason.
	var obj = {};

	// Private
	var showIframeInContainer = function(container, id, markup) {
		// Look through container for iframes, hiding them, except show one that matches id
		// If none of them matched id, create a new iframe using markup and insert it.
		// Returns the iframe node if and only if it was newly created.
		var found = false;
		for (var i=0; i<container.childNodes.length; i++) {
			var child = container.childNodes[i];
			if (child.nodeName == 'IFRAME') {
				if (child.id == id) {
					child.style.display = 'block';
					found = true;
				} else {
					child.style.display = 'none';
				}
			}
		}
		if (found) {
			return;
		}
		// The iframe wasn't found, so construct it and add it to the container.
		// Don't use innerHTML because it might reload iframes
		var div = document.createElement('div');
		div.innerHTML = markup;
		var iframe = div.childNodes[0];
		div.removeChild(iframe);
		container.appendChild(iframe);
		return iframe;
	};

	// Public
	obj.makeReplyIframeId = function(opt_postId, opt_xtype) {
		var id = 'dsq-post-add-iframe';
		if (opt_xtype) {
			id += '-' + opt_xtype;
		}
		if (opt_postId) {
			id += '-' + opt_postId;
		}
		return id;
	};
	obj.makeLoginIframeId = function(opt_postId) {
		if (!opt_postId) {
			return 'dsq-login-iframe';
		}
		return 'dsq-login-iframe-' + opt_postId;
	};
	obj.makeReplyIframeName = function(opt_postId, opt_xtype) {
		var name = 'dsq-reply-frame';
		if (opt_xtype) {
			name += '-' + opt_xtype;
		}
		if (opt_postId) {
			name += '-' + opt_postId;
		}
		return name;
	};
	obj.showReplyIframeInContainer = function(container, opt_postId, opt_extraParams, opt_className) {
		// Construct the id so we can check if it's already present.
		// Hide any other iframes we find, and show this one if it's found.
		var params = opt_extraParams || {};
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Dsq.container.className = "clearfix";
Dsq.container.innerHTML = ' \
<ul id="dsq-comments">\
	 <li id="dsq-comment-3792684">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-header-3792684" class="dsq-comment-header">\
	 <cite id="dsq-cite-3792684" class="dsq-comment-cite">\
	 <span id="dsq-author-user-3792684">PTCruiser</span>\
	 </cite>\
	 </div>\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-body-3792684" class="dsq-comment-body">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-message-3792684" class="dsq-comment-message"><blockquote><i>How is this not a civil rights issue? As citizens of this nation, we should all enjoy the same rights. For one segment of society to be disallowed rights possessed by another . . . I\'m not understanding what kind of issue this is if not civil rights?</i></blockquote><br><br>I\'m with you here. One of the things that I find extremely annoying about the opponents of same-sex marriage, especially those in the African American community, is the way in which they take umbrage at the analogies that proponents of same-sex marriage use as an excuse or justification for denying the justness of their claims. It should not matter one whit whether or not the struggle for same-sex marriage bears any historical or logical relationship to the Civil Rights Movement.<br><br> This struggle should not be used as the lens through which all subsequent claims for civil and constitutional rights in this country are viewed. I don\'t place any stock in the efforts to draw a relationship between the Civil Rights Movement and the campaign waged by the gay and lesbian community for civil rights because the rightness of their cause does not, in my opinion, depend on this connection.</div>\
	 </div>\
	 </li>\
	 <li id="dsq-comment-3796544">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-header-3796544" class="dsq-comment-header">\
	 <cite id="dsq-cite-3796544" class="dsq-comment-cite">\
	 <a id="dsq-author-user-3796544" href="http://www.hustleandfloe.com" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">hustleandfloe</a>\
	 </cite>\
	 </div>\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-body-3796544" class="dsq-comment-body">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-message-3796544" class="dsq-comment-message">thanks for correcting the lens, but it needs even further correction. full disc:  i am not a proponent of gay marriage, the act of it, not simply the proposed legal construct.   regardless of my stance, though,  the issue here is not whether or not gays have the right to marry.  they have that.  <br><br>the real issue is universal legal recognition of the marriage.  if gay marriages have full recognition and treatment according to law, then I still won\'t support it in a moral sense, but most definitely in a law-of-the-land sense.  lobbying, and, in extreme cases, civil disobedience would be my only way of opposing with intent to change.  but neither of those approaches is Christian - that\'s where I come from on this.  A christian is not called on to protest gay marriage, or any other behavior in that way, but rather to preach and teach Jesus - His death and resurrection as our salvation.  All behaviour modification imperatives are delivered from one Christian to another, fully subject to the bible\'s teaching.<br><br>so the lens through which to view this is actually (1) who makes the determination, in this case the individual states and not the federal gov and (2) given the differences among states, whether or not the marriage is recognized.<br><br>But we can\'t frame this as a civil rights issue as marriage is not a right.  for example, if all gay unions were granted some status equal to marriage but under different nomenclature, e.g. civil union, then what would the argument become?<br><br>marriage is accorded different rights versus civil union.  that is the issue.  and President-elect Obama seems disposed to grant legal status equal to marriage while he has stated that he is not for marriage being defined as anything but a union between a man and a woman.  this is a genius move and a true separation of church and state that still allows for a moral statement:  marriage is man and woman, but all people must be treated equally.<br><br>You could argue that he\'s real close to splitting a hair, but that\'s the nature of his brand of compromise.<br><br>so I see the logic of using marriage as the proxy for all of those rights, but , the split hair is that marriage itself is not a right.  gays can marry.  all that is better said here.<br><br><a href="http://www.gaypatriot.net/2008/11/07/no-state-recognition-of-gay-marriage-is-not-a-fundamental-right/" rel="nofollow">http://www.gaypatriot.net/2008/11/07/no-state-r...</a> <br><br>so, given all that, it seems more like proponents of gay marriage are, in this case, not seeking legal remedy as much as moral approval, else marriage wouldn\'t mattter as much as what I\'m actually allowed to do.<br><br>this democracy is built to handle the disagreement.  we will never all agree on things as we come from different value positions.  if we believe strongly enough in one thing, then we have been given the tools to either protect or protest the order of the day.</div>\
	 </div>\
	 </li>\
	 <li id="dsq-comment-3781378">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-header-3781378" class="dsq-comment-header">\
	 <cite id="dsq-cite-3781378" class="dsq-comment-cite">\
	 <span id="dsq-author-user-3781378">Michelle</span>\
	 </cite>\
	 </div>\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-body-3781378" class="dsq-comment-body">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-message-3781378" class="dsq-comment-message">I don\'t have answers to these questions, BUT<br><br>These kinds of questions are one of the reasons I am strongly in favor of separation of church and state when it comes to couples/relationships/families.<br><br>These kinds of questions are why I myself want to see a focus on making civil unions available on a non-discriminatory basis from the state and getting the state out of the marriage business altogether. Let the government deal with non-religious issues of couplehood and state-recognized families. And let religion deal with the religious issues. <br><br>In my view, the US should not act like a theocracy. And on the other side, the government has no business telling religious institutions who their rituals should or should not include.<br><br>Civil unions for the state.<br><br>Marriage for the religious institutions/groups.<br><br>People who want to get married -- go to your church, synagogue, mosque, priestess, whatever.<br><br>People who want legal rights of couplehood from the state: get a civil union. <br><br>People who feel like they need marriage and a civil union? No problem. You can have both. If your religious institution does not accept the kind of couplehood you have, either try  to change it from within, or find another religious institution. There are many variations even within each religion.<br><br>In my view, the government of this country has no business legislating about religion. Religious institutions have no business messing with government legislation about civil benefits and issues. And religious leaders have no business being deputized by the government and acting as government agents when they are performing religious rites based on their particular belief systems.<br><br>I would be interested to know if there would be the possibility of a movement toward this kind of separation of church and state re: couplehood, with a real coalition from opposite sides of the so-called "gay marriage" debate.<br><br>Unfortunately, I am not an organizer. This is not self-deprecating at all, it\'s just, that\'s not my role.<br><br>However, I might well be interested in supporting such a movement if it emerged and was relatively sane (conditional some social movements don\'t feel relatively sane to me so I can\'t be involved).</div>\
	 </div>\
	 </li>\
	 <li id="dsq-comment-3781589">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-header-3781589" class="dsq-comment-header">\
	 <cite id="dsq-cite-3781589" class="dsq-comment-cite">\
	 <span id="dsq-author-user-3781589">thisisatest</span>\
	 </cite>\
	 </div>\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-body-3781589" class="dsq-comment-body">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-message-3781589" class="dsq-comment-message">I agree with you on this, but there\'s no precedent for a dominant group giving up their rights.  And that\'s what this would be.  It would force straight people to give up the rights that they have, rather than just roll us into what exists, and I don\'t think that would happen in a million years.</div>\
	 </div>\
	 </li>\
	 <li id="dsq-comment-3781718">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-header-3781718" class="dsq-comment-header">\
	 <cite id="dsq-cite-3781718" class="dsq-comment-cite">\
	 <span id="dsq-author-user-3781718">Michelle</span>\
	 </cite>\
	 </div>\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-body-3781718" class="dsq-comment-body">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-message-3781718" class="dsq-comment-message">I don\'t understand, saraloves you.<br><br>I don\'t see how it would possibly force straight people to "give up their rights." <br><br>It might force some Christian people/groups to re-examine any assumptions they have about the United States being a Christian theocracy. But my sense is most Christians aren\'t extreme like that.<br><br>But how would this take away rights of any straight people?<br><br>Also, re: this part of what you said: <i>It would force straight people to give up the rights that they have, rather than just roll us into what exists, and I don\'t think that would happen in a million years.</i><br><br>I think it\'s wrong to assume that it will be easier for gay couples to get marriage than to shift the landscape as I suggest. I think that\'s actually a fallacy.<br><br>What I see is this: the fight goes on and on and on about marriage. The "marriage is a man and a woman" people win some and lose some, as do the advocates of same-gender marriage. No victory is ever really secure because it\'s basically a tug of war. Even a Supreme Court decision is open to revision and ongoing struggle (see: Roe v Wade).<br><br>What I also see is this: this country has just elected a president who simultaneously believes that marriage is between a man and a woman, AND that there should not be discrimination against gay people. <br><br>He is on both sides and neither side.<br><br>Could we have some new sides?</div>\
	 </div>\
	 </li>\
	 <li id="dsq-comment-3781868">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-header-3781868" class="dsq-comment-header">\
	 <cite id="dsq-cite-3781868" class="dsq-comment-cite">\
	 <span id="dsq-author-user-3781868">thisisatest</span>\
	 </cite>\
	 </div>\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-body-3781868" class="dsq-comment-body">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-message-3781868" class="dsq-comment-message">When I say that straight people don\'t want to give up their rights, I\'m speaking to a perception I think exists, not what I think.  Maybe it\'s better framed in privilege.  The system we have now privileges straight people, there\'s no need for them to change.  Any change would be perceived as something being taken away.<br><br>Maybe I\'m wrong.  But that\'s what I think it would play out as.</div>\
	 </div>\
	 </li>\
	 <li id="dsq-comment-3781957">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-header-3781957" class="dsq-comment-header">\
	 <cite id="dsq-cite-3781957" class="dsq-comment-cite">\
	 <span id="dsq-author-user-3781957">Michelle</span>\
	 </cite>\
	 </div>\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-body-3781957" class="dsq-comment-body">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-message-3781957" class="dsq-comment-message"><i>The system we have now privileges straight people, there\'s no need for them to change. Any change would be perceived as something being taken away.</i><br><br>Seems to me this would be true no matter what route a movement would take -- whether seeking marriage or civil unions.<br><br>I don\'t see how this is tied to one strategy/approach or the other.</div>\
	 </div>\
	 </li>\
	 <li id="dsq-comment-3781978">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-header-3781978" class="dsq-comment-header">\
	 <cite id="dsq-cite-3781978" class="dsq-comment-cite">\
	 <span id="dsq-author-user-3781978">Michelle</span>\
	 </cite>\
	 </div>\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-body-3781978" class="dsq-comment-body">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-message-3781978" class="dsq-comment-message">postscript to the above: I myself would suggest that any actual changes would explicitly grandfather in people who are already married by the state and give them all the rights of civil unions. They would not have to change.</div>\
	 </div>\
	 </li>\
	 <li id="dsq-comment-3781779">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-header-3781779" class="dsq-comment-header">\
	 <cite id="dsq-cite-3781779" class="dsq-comment-cite">\
	 <a id="dsq-author-user-3781779" href="http://craighickman.blogspot.com" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">CraigHickman</a>\
	 </cite>\
	 </div>\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-body-3781779" class="dsq-comment-body">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-message-3781779" class="dsq-comment-message">In the Netherlands, marriage is a civil union. You must get married at City Hall, otherwise you\'re not legally married. Most folks skip a ceremony at church because it doesn\'t mean much, even for those who are religious.</div>\
	 </div>\
	 </li>\
	 <li id="dsq-comment-3785523">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-header-3785523" class="dsq-comment-header">\
	 <cite id="dsq-cite-3785523" class="dsq-comment-cite">\
	 <a id="dsq-author-user-3785523" href="http://www.jackandjillpolitics.com" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">CPL</a>\
	 </cite>\
	 </div>\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-body-3785523" class="dsq-comment-body">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-message-3785523" class="dsq-comment-message">Craig, that approach makes more sense and eliminates the need to have this conversation, even for religious people.<br><br>Not to mention saving a boatload of money on wedding ceremonial shyt like wedding dresses, and whatnot (yeah, I know, I\'m cynical that way).</div>\
	 </div>\
	 </li>\
	 <li id="dsq-comment-3783521">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-header-3783521" class="dsq-comment-header">\
	 <cite id="dsq-cite-3783521" class="dsq-comment-cite">\
	 <a id="dsq-author-user-3783521" href="http://www.jackandjillpolitics.com" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">cheryl aka jill tubman</a>\
	 </cite>\
	 </div>\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-body-3783521" class="dsq-comment-body">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-message-3783521" class="dsq-comment-message">When I first starting suggesting this concept of truly separating church and state, people looked at me like I was crazy. I think that\'s where we should be headed. This actually fits everyone\'s needs in a way. Everyone should have the same right to form a consensual legal union with another adult of their choice under the law. If you want to celebrate that religiously in addition to the legalities, you have to find a house of worship that shares your values which is optional.</div>\
	 </div>\
	 </li>\
	 <li id="dsq-comment-3781835">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-header-3781835" class="dsq-comment-header">\
	 <cite id="dsq-cite-3781835" class="dsq-comment-cite">\
	 <span id="dsq-author-user-3781835">Michelle</span>\
	 </cite>\
	 </div>\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-body-3781835" class="dsq-comment-body">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-message-3781835" class="dsq-comment-message">But here in the United States, from what I am seeeing people are -- or at least claim to be -- very attached to religious marriage.<br><br>To the point where opposition to same-gender unions is often couched in these religious terms.<br><br>From this dynamic, I assume that religious marriage either 1) really means a lot to people or 2) is a smokescreen they\'re using to bulls**t because they don\'t have another argument that would really hold up to scrutiny outside of the extremist circles.</div>\
	 </div>\
	 </li>\
	 <li id="dsq-comment-3781986">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-header-3781986" class="dsq-comment-header">\
	 <cite id="dsq-cite-3781986" class="dsq-comment-cite">\
	 <a id="dsq-author-user-3781986" href="http://craighickman.blogspot.com" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">CraigHickman</a>\
	 </cite>\
	 </div>\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-body-3781986" class="dsq-comment-body">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-message-3781986" class="dsq-comment-message">Yes. I was agreeing with you by pointing out a nation that does it as you suggest. A nation where anyone can legally marry anyone outside of their immediate family.</div>\
	 </div>\
	 </li>\
	 <li id="dsq-comment-3782285">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-header-3782285" class="dsq-comment-header">\
	 <cite id="dsq-cite-3782285" class="dsq-comment-cite">\
	 <span id="dsq-author-user-3782285">Michelle</span>\
	 </cite>\
	 </div>\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-body-3782285" class="dsq-comment-body">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-message-3782285" class="dsq-comment-message">Craig, the only place we may disagree (though that seems too strong a word, really) is that I\'m finding myself interested in what might happen if we were to remove the word marriage -- and thus explicitly cede marriage to the religious side -- from the bones of contention. <br><br>I do wonder ... Would that move yield the possibility of interesting and effective coalitions? Failing that, would it assist in cutting through the blurring and rhetoric and ideologue-ness on both sides in some way and showing the real stakes of the struggle? <br><br>(my gut tells me that -- given what I saw with the dynamics of the presidential election -- maybe cutting through the blurriness and rhetoric might possibly be a way to isolate and shrink down the anti-gay side of things, bringing it down to its smaller essence or extremists who are visible as such.)<br><br>Just thinking out loud.</div>\
	 </div>\
	 </li>\
	 <li id="dsq-comment-3785877">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-header-3785877" class="dsq-comment-header">\
	 <cite id="dsq-cite-3785877" class="dsq-comment-cite">\
	 <span id="dsq-author-user-3785877">TruthSeeker</span>\
	 </cite>\
	 </div>\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-body-3785877" class="dsq-comment-body">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-message-3785877" class="dsq-comment-message"><i><blockquote>...is that I\'m finding myself interested in what might happen if we were to remove the word marriage -- and thus explicitly cede marriage to the religious side -- from the bones of contention. </blockquote></i><br><br>That\'s it right there...sometimes the worst think you can do to your opponent is give them exactly what they want.   I could be wrong, but the LG movement might not be thinking strategically enough....where "marriage" becomes conflated with "acceptance" and they end up fighting for something they don\'t even really want.     <br><br>Religion is fixing for a fight, and they think they have righteousness on their side.  How do you neutralize them?   Let them have marriage.</div>\
	 </div>\
	 </li>\
	 <li id="dsq-comment-3786026">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-header-3786026" class="dsq-comment-header">\
	 <cite id="dsq-cite-3786026" class="dsq-comment-cite">\
	 <span id="dsq-author-user-3786026">Michelle</span>\
	 </cite>\
	 </div>\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-body-3786026" class="dsq-comment-body">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-message-3786026" class="dsq-comment-message"><i>where "marriage" becomes conflated with "acceptance"...</i><br><br>This is hugely insightful and important IMO.<br><br>On one level, I feel like the conflation is about psychological needs, confusion of ego with movement goals, and acceptance of an idealized relationship per the culture\'s fictions. <br><br>On another level, it is like any situation in which one possible route to change becomes THE route to change in the movement\'s cultural assumptions. <br><br>In these situations, particular strategies, tactics or methods get confused with larger goals. This removes flexibility, creativity and grounded reality from the movement core IMO. <br><br>I think this conflation -- and the dynamics that feed it -- is a huge obstacle to doing what you (and I) are talking about: looking clear-eyed and strategically at the situation as it continues to emerge and change, and acting in the most truly effective way toward the actual goals.<br><br><i>That\'s it right there...sometimes the worst think you can do to your opponent is give them exactly what they want. ...[snip]<br><br>Religion is fixing for a fight, and they think they have righteousness on their side. How do you neutralize them? Let them have marriage.</i><br><br>Exactly.<br><br>And I should also say: I have learned so much from watching President-elect Obama\'s approach and actions. Some of what I learned is totally informing how I am understanding this situation (to give credit where credit is due).</div>\
	 </div>\
	 </li>\
	 <li id="dsq-comment-3791602">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-header-3791602" class="dsq-comment-header">\
	 <cite id="dsq-cite-3791602" class="dsq-comment-cite">\
	 <span id="dsq-author-user-3791602">jamie d</span>\
	 </cite>\
	 </div>\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-body-3791602" class="dsq-comment-body">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-message-3791602" class="dsq-comment-message">There\'s a twofold problem that I see with ceding marriage completely.  There are gay people who are part of open-minded communities of faith who would like to have religious ceremonies, which are banned under the prop 8 model.  On the one hand, there\'s the lack of equal protection.  On the other, there\'s the favoring of one religious viewpoint over another.  Either it\'s wrong by the 14th amandment, or it\'s wrong by the 1st.</div>\
	 </div>\
	 </li>\
	 <li id="dsq-comment-3792682">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-header-3792682" class="dsq-comment-header">\
	 <cite id="dsq-cite-3792682" class="dsq-comment-cite">\
	 <a id="dsq-author-user-3792682" href="http://craighickman.blogspot.com" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">CraigHickman</a>\
	 </cite>\
	 </div>\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-body-3792682" class="dsq-comment-body">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-message-3792682" class="dsq-comment-message">Craig, the only place we may disagree (though that seems too strong a word, really) is that I\'m finding myself interested in what might happen if we were to remove the word marriage -- and thus explicitly cede marriage to the religious side -- from the bones of contention.<br><br>::<br><br>I think would diverge a bit on this. I repeat, I\'m not a big gay marriage movement participant, but if equal rights are going to be applied, the language as it stands needs to be made available to every citizen. <br><br>Period.<br><br>I, for one, believe we will get there. But it will happen in the courts, not at the ballot box. Precisely because of so many reasons stated in this discussion.<br><br>I don\'t want to bash Christians, but I have no problem bashing dogmatists. When folks find it necessary in casual conversation to tell me what they don\'t believe in, I find it necessary to tell them to tell it to their mirror because I simply don\'t care. Dogmatists <i>do</i> want to imprison others with their dogma, whether they admit it or not. Truthseeker spelled it out brilliantly earlier in this thread.<br><br>And that is why marriage equality won\'t happen by legislation or at the ballot box. It will only happen in the courts because the courts can uphold principles that override religious dogma.<br><br>In that, gay marriage will go the way of interracial marriage.<br><br>Mark my words.</div>\
	 </div>\
	 </li>\
	 <li id="dsq-comment-3793668">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-header-3793668" class="dsq-comment-header">\
	 <cite id="dsq-cite-3793668" class="dsq-comment-cite">\
	 <span id="dsq-author-user-3793668">Michelle</span>\
	 </cite>\
	 </div>\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-body-3793668" class="dsq-comment-body">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-message-3793668" class="dsq-comment-message">At some level, Craig, what you\'re saying reassures me. Because the "marriage equality" movement itself feels dissonant to me in a big way and I question the effectiveness in a grassroots effort, at least at this point in time.  <br><br>I do stand opposed to the marriage equality movement because I find them painfully based in certain forms of deception (some, or at least one, of which you and I have discussed).<br><br>And the hard-core people on the other side scare me big-time as well (like I was looking into what happened in Arkansas with Act 1 or whatever it\'s called and I am currently spooked at levels I can\'t even express about THAT -- and really I don\'t understand why the movement isn\'t more up in arms about that because it is so much worse than what happened in CA IMO).<br><br>So it means a lot to me to read your certainty on the courts as mechanism, Craig. Because after reading about those people in Arkansas, up at 4am last night reading some of their website actually, I am spooked big time. And I can\'t see how legislation or initiatives would have anything to do with this in the end. Which doesn\'t mean it\'s impossible, but ... I am seriously spooked<br><br>So reading your comment, punctuated with that powerful last line <i>Mark my words</i> is pretty grounding for me -- and for that I thank you.</div>\
	 </div>\
	 </li>\
	 <li id="dsq-comment-3785587">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-header-3785587" class="dsq-comment-header">\
	 <cite id="dsq-cite-3785587" class="dsq-comment-cite">\
	 <a id="dsq-author-user-3785587" href="http://www.jackandjillpolitics.com" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">CPL</a>\
	 </cite>\
	 </div>\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-body-3785587" class="dsq-comment-body">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-message-3785587" class="dsq-comment-message">Michelle, I\'ve been to too many religious marriage ceremonies where the bride and groom, while pledging "til death us do part" and simultaneously thinking "If this shyt don\'t work out, we can always get a divorce" so, if there\'s really a religious value to marriage, one would think the couple wouldn\'t be thinking about "if this marriage doesn\'t work out..." while pledging to stay with their spouse until death.<br><br>Therefore, my answer is #2 - a smokescreen to bullshyt because they that are arguing against gay marriage cannot come up with a logical, reasoned argument as to why they have to legislate who consenting adults can be with in loving partnership, outside the extremist circles.  And I say that as a Christian who\'s been abused by the Church because of trying to live under dogmatic application of Biblical scripture which damned near killed me in spirit and in truth.  People use religion to avoid having hard discussions like this, and to avoid doing the hard work of unconditional acceptance of one another.</div>\
	 </div>\
	 </li>\
	 <li id="dsq-comment-3784039">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-header-3784039" class="dsq-comment-header">\
	 <cite id="dsq-cite-3784039" class="dsq-comment-cite">\
	 <a id="dsq-author-user-3784039" href="http://www.actsoffaithblog.com" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">Acts Of Faith Blog</a>\
	 </cite>\
	 </div>\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-body-3784039" class="dsq-comment-body">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-message-3784039" class="dsq-comment-message">Their gov\'t practices are far superior in many aspects to what we have here in the US, esp with regards to health care, paid time off, and child care.</div>\
	 </div>\
	 </li>\
	 <li id="dsq-comment-3792620">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-header-3792620" class="dsq-comment-header">\
	 <cite id="dsq-cite-3792620" class="dsq-comment-cite">\
	 <a id="dsq-author-user-3792620" href="http://craighickman.blogspot.com" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">CraigHickman</a>\
	 </cite>\
	 </div>\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-body-3792620" class="dsq-comment-body">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-message-3792620" class="dsq-comment-message">Which is why I would have moved there if McCain was elected.<br><br>My husband retained is Dutch citizenship. I love the country, but it should be indoors. It\'s always raining.</div>\
	 </div>\
	 </li>\
	 <li id="dsq-comment-3786249">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-header-3786249" class="dsq-comment-header">\
	 <cite id="dsq-cite-3786249" class="dsq-comment-cite">\
	 <span id="dsq-author-user-3786249">Val</span>\
	 </cite>\
	 </div>\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-body-3786249" class="dsq-comment-body">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-message-3786249" class="dsq-comment-message">"Most folks skip a ceremony at church because it doesn\'t mean much, even for those who are religious."<br><br>Not true.  There is a spiritual component associated with a ceremony at a church. It connects you to the religious aspect of the sanctity of marriage and all it stands for as it relates to the teachings in the bible.</div>\
	 </div>\
	 </li>\
	 <li id="dsq-comment-3791507">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-header-3791507" class="dsq-comment-header">\
	 <cite id="dsq-cite-3791507" class="dsq-comment-cite">\
	 <span id="dsq-author-user-3791507">jamie d</span>\
	 </cite>\
	 </div>\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-body-3791507" class="dsq-comment-body">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-message-3791507" class="dsq-comment-message">I believe he was specifically talking about the way things are done in the Netherlands.  People there who want that connection to biblical sanctity and community traditions are allowed to have it , but that\'s not what legally defines marriage.</div>\
	 </div>\
	 </li>\
	 <li id="dsq-comment-3792605">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-header-3792605" class="dsq-comment-header">\
	 <cite id="dsq-cite-3792605" class="dsq-comment-cite">\
	 <a id="dsq-author-user-3792605" href="http://craighickman.blogspot.com" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">CraigHickman</a>\
	 </cite>\
	 </div>\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-body-3792605" class="dsq-comment-body">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-message-3792605" class="dsq-comment-message">Val, what I said about Christians in the Netherlands is true.</div>\
	 </div>\
	 </li>\
	 <li id="dsq-comment-3781475">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-header-3781475" class="dsq-comment-header">\
	 <cite id="dsq-cite-3781475" class="dsq-comment-cite">\
	 <span id="dsq-author-user-3781475">rdxtion</span>\
	 </cite>\
	 </div>\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-body-3781475" class="dsq-comment-body">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-message-3781475" class="dsq-comment-message">No church can be forced to marry someone.  The laws wouldn\'t force churches to marry anyone.<br><br>About the federal funding - this is interesting, because churches that receive federal funds are not allowed to discriminate in the activities that they receive federal funds then.  Thus in the day care example, you can\'t fire someone because they are a lesbian if they are a daycare employee.  However, if a church finds out their deacon is gay, they can fire the deacon.  That\'s because the federal funds aren\'t going to their "religious" activity, the federal funds are going to the daycare.<br><br>I am not sure about the insurance question.</div>\
	 </div>\
	 </li>\
	 <li id="dsq-comment-3781486">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-header-3781486" class="dsq-comment-header">\
	 <cite id="dsq-cite-3781486" class="dsq-comment-cite">\
	 <a id="dsq-author-user-3781486" href="http://craighickman.blogspot.com" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">CraigHickman</a>\
	 </cite>\
	 </div>\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-body-3781486" class="dsq-comment-body">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-message-3781486" class="dsq-comment-message">The only entities required to provide benefits to same-sex couples are government institutions in a state that require it or private insurers who provide benefits to those in states that require it.<br><br>As far as I\'m aware.</div>\
	 </div>\
	 </li>\
	 <li id="dsq-comment-3781505">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-header-3781505" class="dsq-comment-header">\
	 <cite id="dsq-cite-3781505" class="dsq-comment-cite">\
	 <span id="dsq-author-user-3781505">renegademom</span>\
	 </cite>\
	 </div>\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-body-3781505" class="dsq-comment-body">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-message-3781505" class="dsq-comment-message">This is a STATE initiative/law...no federal monies could be involved.  NO church could be forced to perform any wedding they didn\'t want to, whether hetero or homo.....and if a church offers health care insurance (most don\'t unless it is to ministers....there are few other full time employees.....) to legal spouses, they would have to cover gay spouses, whether by marriage or civil union.<br><br>marriage is marriage.  a civil union is a cold contract.  if i were going to marry a woman, i\'d want a minister, a white dress, AND a rockin/ reception.  not a contract signing.</div>\
	 </div>\
	 </li>\
	 <li id="dsq-comment-3781512">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-header-3781512" class="dsq-comment-header">\
	 <cite id="dsq-cite-3781512" class="dsq-comment-cite">\
	 <span id="dsq-author-user-3781512">Kat</span>\
	 </cite>\
	 </div>\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-body-3781512" class="dsq-comment-body">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-message-3781512" class="dsq-comment-message">I don\'t know about the insurance question, but many churches already put restrictions on who they will marry (you have to be a member of that particular church or denomination, you have to take premarital counseling classes, etc), so I don\'t think a change in the laws about gay marriage would change that.</div>\
	 </div>\
	 </li>\
	 <li id="dsq-comment-3781662">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-header-3781662" class="dsq-comment-header">\
	 <cite id="dsq-cite-3781662" class="dsq-comment-cite">\
	 <span id="dsq-author-user-3781662">thisisatest</span>\
	 </cite>\
	 </div>\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-body-3781662" class="dsq-comment-body">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-message-3781662" class="dsq-comment-message">I mentioned that in an earlier post - Catholics can\'t marry non-Catholics in the Church; nor can they remarry in the Church after they\'ve been divorced.  They can remarry legally, but not in that religious tradition.  Same goes for Jews/non-Jews where some rabbis won\'t do interfaith marriages.  They can get married legally.<br><br>There\'s no threat to religious decision-making on who to marry here.<br><br>That said, if gay marriage was federally legal, the churches would have to give benefits to employees as their marriages would be legal.  That said, I worked at a synagogue for a few years and am not Jewish.  If I was married, it would not have been blessed by a rabbi.  Within that religion, I would not have been able to marry because I had and have no intention of converting to Judaism.  They still would have had to cover my spouse under our family insurance plan though.</div>\
	 </div>\
	 </li>\
	 <li id="dsq-comment-3781574">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-header-3781574" class="dsq-comment-header">\
	 <cite id="dsq-cite-3781574" class="dsq-comment-cite">\
	 <span id="dsq-author-user-3781574">ljf</span>\
	 </cite>\
	 </div>\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-body-3781574" class="dsq-comment-body">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-message-3781574" class="dsq-comment-message">Wow I never thought of that.  As a New Yorker, my siblings and cousins went to City Hall to  get married.  After the City Hall bit , a wedding ceremony/ reception was held.   Because of that I\'ve always viewed the wedding ceremony/reception as something separate from the actual act of getting married.  No one in my family that I know of had a "serious" religious ceremony.  If there was a minister performing the vows, it was just for show.   <br><br>BTW is there a difference between a marriage and a civil union?</div>\
	 </div>\
	 </li>\
	 <li id="dsq-comment-3781600">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-header-3781600" class="dsq-comment-header">\
	 <cite id="dsq-cite-3781600" class="dsq-comment-cite">\
	 <span id="dsq-author-user-3781600">ljf</span>\
	 </cite>\
	 </div>\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-body-3781600" class="dsq-comment-body">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-message-3781600" class="dsq-comment-message">So that you know,  no one in my family (aunts uncle, parents cousin, siblings and myself) was ever married in a church.</div>\
	 </div>\
	 </li>\
	 <li id="dsq-comment-3781628">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-header-3781628" class="dsq-comment-header">\
	 <cite id="dsq-cite-3781628" class="dsq-comment-cite">\
	 <span id="dsq-author-user-3781628">Michelle</span>\
	 </cite>\
	 </div>\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-body-3781628" class="dsq-comment-body">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-message-3781628" class="dsq-comment-message">To my knowledge, the US (federally) does not really have civil unions. Legally recognized couplehood.families get all blurred under "marriage." <br><br>(if anyone knows otherwise please let me know)<br><br>There\'s all this blurring of religion and civil issues. So we have this thing, "marriage," which is IMO a religious matter, being on people\'s tax forms and stuff like that. <br><br>And if I understand correctly, the state basically deputizes religious people (ministers, rabbis, etc) to act on its behalf when they perform the religious rites.</div>\
	 </div>\
	 </li>\
	 <li id="dsq-comment-3781700">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-header-3781700" class="dsq-comment-header">\
	 <cite id="dsq-cite-3781700" class="dsq-comment-cite">\
	 <span id="dsq-author-user-3781700">thisisatest</span>\
	 </cite>\
	 </div>\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-body-3781700" class="dsq-comment-body">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-message-3781700" class="dsq-comment-message">We don\'t have federal civil unions.  And those of us who have domestic partner benefits have to pay taxes on benefits, unlike married people.<br><br>What this means is that my job puts in $x for my health care and I put in $y.  When I added my girlfriend, I had to pay more, but the amount my job put in increased as well.  Unlike married people, that amount - it was about $400/month - was taxable income.  So I had to pay taxes on $400 more per month than someone exactly like me who was legally married.</div>\
	 </div>\
	 </li>\
	 <li id="dsq-comment-3781762">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-header-3781762" class="dsq-comment-header">\
	 <cite id="dsq-cite-3781762" class="dsq-comment-cite">\
	 <span id="dsq-author-user-3781762">Michelle</span>\
	 </cite>\
	 </div>\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-body-3781762" class="dsq-comment-body">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-message-3781762" class="dsq-comment-message">saralovesyou, I have the same situation with health insurance as I am on my girlfriend\'s insurance (her specific workplace offers domestic partner insurance benefits).<br><br>personally, I don\'t feel that access to health insurance should have anything to do with whether or not I am in a relationship with someone and or whether one or the other partner is privileged enough to have a job with health benefits.<br><br>I don\'t think I have some special right to better health care access than a non-coupled person should have. What do you think about that?<br><br>I would like to see these kinds of questions being raised.</div>\
	 </div>\
	 </li>\
	 <li id="dsq-comment-3781854">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-header-3781854" class="dsq-comment-header">\
	 <cite id="dsq-cite-3781854" class="dsq-comment-cite">\
	 <span id="dsq-author-user-3781854">thisisatest</span>\
	 </cite>\
	 </div>\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-body-3781854" class="dsq-comment-body">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-message-3781854" class="dsq-comment-message">I agree with you.   It\'s hard, because there are multiple layers to the issue.  On the one hand, you have the huge social inequity of privilege for married couples period - leaving out single people and GLBT people completely.  On the other hand, you have what I see has another social inequity in who has access to the benefits that exist.<br><br>Places like <a href="http://beyondmarriage.org/" rel="nofollow">http://beyondmarriage.org/</a> and <a href="http://www.unmarried.org/" rel="nofollow">http://www.unmarried.org/</a> seem to address the issue you\'re raising - but I\'ll admit to a level of ignorance as to how they\'re working towards solutions/who they\'re representing.<br><br>I struggle with the same questions you\'re talking about.  It\'s the conflict in me between the pragmatist (working within the system) and the idealist (recreating parts of our world).<br><br>Right now I don\'t know how to address all of the questions you bring up, and that come up in my own head.  I think it\'s a good conversation to have, and continue, but I still think that there\'s a place for both tracks.</div>\
	 </div>\
	 </li>\
	 <li id="dsq-comment-3781867">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-header-3781867" class="dsq-comment-header">\
	 <cite id="dsq-cite-3781867" class="dsq-comment-cite">\
	 <span id="dsq-author-user-3781867">Michelle</span>\
	 </cite>\
	 </div>\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-body-3781867" class="dsq-comment-body">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-message-3781867" class="dsq-comment-message"><i>pragmatist (working within the system) and the idealist (recreating parts of our world).</i><br><br>But: Which side is which in this situation?</div>\
	 </div>\
	 </li>\
	 <li id="dsq-comment-3781889">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-header-3781889" class="dsq-comment-header">\
	 <cite id="dsq-cite-3781889" class="dsq-comment-cite">\
	 <span id="dsq-author-user-3781889">thisisatest</span>\
	 </cite>\
	 </div>\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-body-3781889" class="dsq-comment-body">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-message-3781889" class="dsq-comment-message">pragmatist: work within the system and get gay marriage pushed through.<br><br>idealist: change the system so that marriage is religious-only, civil unions protect families, and we have universal health care so that people aren\'t relying on their employers/partners for basic needs.</div>\
	 </div>\
	 </li>\
	 <li id="dsq-comment-3781919">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-header-3781919" class="dsq-comment-header">\
	 <cite id="dsq-cite-3781919" class="dsq-comment-cite">\
	 <span id="dsq-author-user-3781919">Michelle</span>\
	 </cite>\
	 </div>\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-body-3781919" class="dsq-comment-body">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-message-3781919" class="dsq-comment-message"><i>pragmatist: work within the system and get gay marriage pushed through.</i><br><br>LOL, I disagree! (or at least I disagree through one lens).<br><br>it could also be:<br><br>pragmatist: cede marriage to the religious people and attend to the opportunities at hand with President-elect Obama\'s perspective on health insurance and non-discrimination<br><br>idealist: wax poetic about how marriage is THE thing and a movement toward same-gender marriage is the only real path toward equality, and idealistically ignore the dynamics of opposition and the political context that is now emerging with President-elect Obama.</div>\
	 </div>\
	 </li>\
	 <li id="dsq-comment-3789287">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-header-3789287" class="dsq-comment-header">\
	 <cite id="dsq-cite-3789287" class="dsq-comment-cite">\
	 <a id="dsq-author-user-3789287" href="http://www.seesaw.typepad.com" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">Liza Diamond</a>\
	 </cite>\
	 </div>\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-body-3789287" class="dsq-comment-body">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-message-3789287" class="dsq-comment-message">Some states that allow civil unions now won\'t allow benefits for domestic parnerships. Evil. I don\'t want to marry or civil union, but I can\'t get health ins. benefits from the institution that employs my parenting partner. Hence, I have  expensive and limited insurance that I can barely afford, while my parenting partner and our kids have great insurance from an institution that can but won\'t extend benefits to me, even though our family depends on all of our good health.<br><br>As I\'ve said before, if we had a just system of taxation and healthcare, most people wouldn\'t even care about marriage. <br><br>I\'ve been a Lesbian my entire adult life and never wanted to get married. Still don\'t. But I so resent living within a  system which doles out benefits to people based on their marital status.</div>\
	 </div>\
	 </li>\
	 <li id="dsq-comment-3781990">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-header-3781990" class="dsq-comment-header">\
	 <cite id="dsq-cite-3781990" class="dsq-comment-cite">\
	 <span id="dsq-author-user-3781990">Xay</span>\
	 </cite>\
	 </div>\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-body-3781990" class="dsq-comment-body">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-message-3781990" class="dsq-comment-message">Legalized gay marriage doesn\'t affect who churches marry. Churches are not required to perform marriages and many already have rules and restrictions for who they will marry (membership in the church for X period of time, premarital counseling, no previous marriages, no cohabitation, etc).<br><br>As far as benefits, it depends on how the laws are written. But keep in mind, do churches that are against premarital sex provide benefits that cover children of unwed parents? Should they?</div>\
	 </div>\
	 </li>\
	 <li id="dsq-comment-3782475">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-header-3782475" class="dsq-comment-header">\
	 <cite id="dsq-cite-3782475" class="dsq-comment-cite">\
	 <a id="dsq-author-user-3782475" href="http://revvyrev.blogspot.com/" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">revvy rev</a>\
	 </cite>\
	 </div>\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-body-3782475" class="dsq-comment-body">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-message-3782475" class="dsq-comment-message">I am not a lawyer, but church or clergy performance of marriages is contractual. There possibly could be, in my opinion, an issue if gay marriage is legalized and a ceremony is performed for one couple and not for another when everything else is considered equal. For example, both are members of the congregation, etc. It is an interesting dilemma and I think will probably come down to the courts. The same thing goes for providing benefits.<br><br>Premarital sex issues however, are not relevant as it is not against the law.</div>\
	 </div>\
	 </li>\
	 <li id="dsq-comment-3782537">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-header-3782537" class="dsq-comment-header">\
	 <cite id="dsq-cite-3782537" class="dsq-comment-cite">\
	 <span id="dsq-author-user-3782537">gussie</span>\
	 </cite>\
	 </div>\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-body-3782537" class="dsq-comment-body">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-message-3782537" class="dsq-comment-message">Intermarriage between Jew and gentile is legal, but synagogues aren\'t legally obliged to perform them--even if the gentile is a dues-paying member of teh congregation.</div>\
	 </div>\
	 </li>\
	 <li id="dsq-comment-3789237">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-header-3789237" class="dsq-comment-header">\
	 <cite id="dsq-cite-3789237" class="dsq-comment-cite">\
	 <a id="dsq-author-user-3789237" href="http://www.seesaw.typepad.com" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">Liza Diamond</a>\
	 </cite>\
	 </div>\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-body-3789237" class="dsq-comment-body">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-message-3789237" class="dsq-comment-message">True. A Rabbi friend of mine offered to marry my (same sex) partner and me because we were both Jews, but refused to marry my sister and her male fiance because they are interfaith. Ironic, when my sister actually wanted to get married (and did - but with a different Rabbi) but I had no interest in marriage.</div>\
	 </div>\
	 </li>\
	 <li id="dsq-comment-3786174">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-header-3786174" class="dsq-comment-header">\
	 <cite id="dsq-cite-3786174" class="dsq-comment-cite">\
	 <span id="dsq-author-user-3786174">Nate_Wesley</span>\
	 </cite>\
	 </div>\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-body-3786174" class="dsq-comment-body">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-message-3786174" class="dsq-comment-message">I doubt this would be the case.  The religious institutions perform the ceremonial aspect of marriages, but its the states who issue the licenses (and makes them legal).   As long as the states issue the license and continue to allow marriages by judges or justices of the peace, the churches can do what they want, performing ceremonial weddings at their own discretion.   <br><br>If I were gay and my church didn\'t allow or perform same sex marriages, I  wouldn\'t bother pressing the issue--I\'d just get the license done from the appropriate county office, and have my own ceremonial gathering wherever I could get it done.  That\'s the way it should be, IMO.  (Though if I really were gay, I should have probably found a more progressive church home in the first place.)</div>\
	 </div>\
	 </li>\
	 <li id="dsq-comment-3782649">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-header-3782649" class="dsq-comment-header">\
	 <cite id="dsq-cite-3782649" class="dsq-comment-cite">\
	 <a id="dsq-author-user-3782649" href="http://www.jackandjillpolitics.com" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">CPL</a>\
	 </cite>\
	 </div>\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-body-3782649" class="dsq-comment-body">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-message-3782649" class="dsq-comment-message">The question I find myself asking and answering more and more is why does the government want to legislate what consenting adults do in the privacy of their own homes?<br><br>I find anything that smacks of discrimination, I will always take a stand against discrimination because injustices to one are injustices to ALL.  As for the Church, as long as there is separation of Church and State, I don\'t know whether or not churches can be forced to do anything, but if they\'re taking government payola, we\'re talking a whole \'nother kettle of fish.<br><br>I\'d like to have more discussion because I confess I don\'t know everything involved, and I see this as an opportunity for educating as opposed to offering opinions when I\'m not sure of the facts.</div>\
	 </div>\
	 </li>\
	 <li id="dsq-comment-3783307">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-header-3783307" class="dsq-comment-header">\
	 <cite id="dsq-cite-3783307" class="dsq-comment-cite">\
	 <span id="dsq-author-user-3783307">AZ MOM</span>\
	 </cite>\
	 </div>\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-body-3783307" class="dsq-comment-body">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-message-3783307" class="dsq-comment-message">This is why there\'s a seperation between church and state. I don\'t know very much but I am under the impression that Faith-based Initiatives (federal monies for church programs) are controversial because churches are still free to operate those programs with federal money without conforming to laws re: discrimination based on gender/sexuality. This is the muddy part of our politics meeting religious ideology. When faith-based organizations push for legislation, then fight for federal funding (while enjoying tax exemption), and then declare themselves free to discriminate and preach against segments of our society because they are protected and seperate, I have a hard time with the double-standard. <br><br>I think there\'s a lot of misinformation and worst-case scenarios being floated out there to drive a fear-based opposition to allowing the gay community the right to civil unions. Personally, I don\'t mind. I\'m not worried about the state of my marriage. I think we want to promote monogomy today. We want to impart to our children the value of commitment. Why is that value only applicable to heterosexual couples? And not to be a wise ass, but when I got married we spent around $20k. Weddings and babies. Man. BIG time money makers. You get hammered for the dress, the invitations, the cake...on and on. AND ON! I get a little snarky about making that "marriage tax" exclusive to the heterosexual community. Stimulate local economies! Allow gays to marry! It\'s good business!<br><br>I don\'t know much. But I have two kids. And I don\'t know if one day they\'ll fall in love with someone of the same sex. And it breaks my heart that because of that which they cannot deny, society would see them as "less than". As a mother, I couldn\'t endure it.</div>\
	 </div>\
	 </li>\
	 <li id="dsq-comment-3783430">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-header-3783430" class="dsq-comment-header">\
	 <cite id="dsq-cite-3783430" class="dsq-comment-cite">\
	 <a id="dsq-author-user-3783430" href="http://www.bigassbelle.blogspot.com" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">bigassbelle</a>\
	 </cite>\
	 </div>\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-body-3783430" class="dsq-comment-body">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-message-3783430" class="dsq-comment-message">Put another way . . . <br><br><i>I would like to know about the legal ramifications of interracial marriage.<br><br>How it would affect the church?<br><br>What do I mean?<br><br>Could a church be forced into performing marriages between whites and blacks? <br><br>There are a number of churches that get federal monies for services to the community that they perform (after school programs, day care centers, etc.). Could their money be taken away from them if they don’t perform interracial marriages?<br><br>If said churches have  employees in interracial marriages, would they be forced to cover the spouses if they provide such coverage for couples of same race marriages, even though the church doesn’t believe in interracial marriage?<br><br>Thank you for any answers that are provided.</i></div>\
	 </div>\
	 </li>\
	 <li id="dsq-comment-3783528">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-header-3783528" class="dsq-comment-header">\
	 <cite id="dsq-cite-3783528" class="dsq-comment-cite">\
	 <a id="dsq-author-user-3783528" href="http://www.jackandjillpolitics.com" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">cheryl aka jill tubman</a>\
	 </cite>\
	 </div>\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-body-3783528" class="dsq-comment-body">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-message-3783528" class="dsq-comment-message">I hear ya. I am not gay. But I am eager for equal rights for all.</div>\
	 </div>\
	 </li>\
	 <li id="dsq-comment-3784868">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-header-3784868" class="dsq-comment-header">\
	 <cite id="dsq-cite-3784868" class="dsq-comment-cite">\
	 <a id="dsq-author-user-3784868" href="http://www.bigassbelle.blogspot.com" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">bigassbelle</a>\
	 </cite>\
	 </div>\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-body-3784868" class="dsq-comment-body">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-message-3784868" class="dsq-comment-message">I am <b>seriously</b> not arguing. I just don\'t understand how this is not a civil rights issue. If someone can explain it to me, I\'m very open to understanding. I want to understand that view. <br><br>Civil rights: Rights ensuring things such as the protection of peoples\' physical integrity; procedural fairness in law; protection from discrimination based on gender, religion, race, <b>sexual orientation</b>, etc; individual freedom of belief, speech, association, and the press; and political participation.</div>\
	 </div>\
	 </li>\
	 <li id="dsq-comment-3786093">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-header-3786093" class="dsq-comment-header">\
	 <cite id="dsq-cite-3786093" class="dsq-comment-cite">\
	 <span id="dsq-author-user-3786093">Nate_Wesley</span>\
	 </cite>\
	 </div>\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-body-3786093" class="dsq-comment-body">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-message-3786093" class="dsq-comment-message">I agree with you, BAB. The fight for basic civil rights did not begin and will not solely be solved by the [capital letter] Civil Rights Movement that involved the end to discrimination amongst African-Americans.  We are severely limiting the conceptual value of basic civil rights is by thinking of them as \'what black people got beat for in the \'50-70s\'.  It is not even a struggle that is limited to the United States.</div>\
	 </div>\
	 </li>\
	 <li id="dsq-comment-3784922">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-header-3784922" class="dsq-comment-header">\
	 <cite id="dsq-cite-3784922" class="dsq-comment-cite">\
	 <a id="dsq-author-user-3784922" href="http://www.jackandjillpolitics.com" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">cheryl aka jill tubman</a>\
	 </cite>\
	 </div>\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-body-3784922" class="dsq-comment-body">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-message-3784922" class="dsq-comment-message">We are in complete agreement on this bigassbelle. This is a civil rights and<br>a human rights issue.</div>\
	 </div>\
	 </li>\
	 <li id="dsq-comment-3785133">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-header-3785133" class="dsq-comment-header">\
	 <cite id="dsq-cite-3785133" class="dsq-comment-cite">\
	 <a id="dsq-author-user-3785133" href="http://talesfromthe.net/jon" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">jon</a>\
	 </cite>\
	 </div>\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-body-3785133" class="dsq-comment-body">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-message-3785133" class="dsq-comment-message">I agree as well, however I am sympathetic to Michelle\'s point.  It\'s hard for me to put my finger on why it makes me uncomfortable to hear so much emphasis on this ... but I think the marriage equality folks would be well served by relying less on analogies to the struggle against race-based discrimination.</div>\
	 </div>\
	 </li>\
	 <li id="dsq-comment-3785803">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-header-3785803" class="dsq-comment-header">\
	 <cite id="dsq-cite-3785803" class="dsq-comment-cite">\
	 <a id="dsq-author-user-3785803" href="http://www.bigassbelle.blogspot.com" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">bigassbelle</a>\
	 </cite>\
	 </div>\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-body-3785803" class="dsq-comment-body">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-message-3785803" class="dsq-comment-message">I appreciate the additional discussion. It helps in my thoughts about this. The only thing I\'d add here is that the struggle for civil rights has affected many people in this country at different times in our history. In general, we\'ve come a long way in recognizing the humanity in the "different," whether that difference is sex, race, religion, national origin, whatever. <br><br>Right now the civil rights issue most prominent in our nation is for gays to have the same rights as others. <br><br>Now I\'m going back to finish the cake for my father\'s 91st birthday. He\'s a little forgetful these days, enough so that he\'s forgotten he\'s a lifelong Republican and he\'s loving what I\'m telling him about our grand new president-elect. <br><br>"He sounds like a fine man, a fine man." Indeed. Night everyone. Thanks for the input.</div>\
	 </div>\
	 </li>\
	 <li id="dsq-comment-3785868">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-header-3785868" class="dsq-comment-header">\
	 <cite id="dsq-cite-3785868" class="dsq-comment-cite">\
	 <a id="dsq-author-user-3785868" href="http://blog.evavegadiversity.com/" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">evita</a>\
	 </cite>\
	 </div>\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-body-3785868" class="dsq-comment-body">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-message-3785868" class="dsq-comment-message">Part of the issue is that most people believe the Civil Rights Act was comprehensive, which is was not.<br><br>From the US Department of Justice:<br><a href="http://www.usdoj.gov/crt/cor/coord/titlevi.php" rel="nofollow">http://www.usdoj.gov/crt/cor/coord/titlevi.php</a><br><br>" 	Title VI, 42 U.S.C. § 2000d et seq., was enacted as part of the landmark Civil Rights Act of 1964. It prohibits discrimination on the basis of race, color, and national origin in programs and activities receiving federal financial assistance. "<br><br>Big picture, yes you are dead on. Local picture- discriminating against gay people is largely legal. Unless of course, the equal protection clause means anything...</div>\
	 </div>\
	 </li>\
	 <li id="dsq-comment-3785734">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-header-3785734" class="dsq-comment-header">\
	 <cite id="dsq-cite-3785734" class="dsq-comment-cite">\
	 <a id="dsq-author-user-3785734" href="http://blog.evavegadiversity.com/" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">evita</a>\
	 </cite>\
	 </div>\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-body-3785734" class="dsq-comment-body">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-message-3785734" class="dsq-comment-message">Point to note: the Civil Rights Act of 65 did NOT include sexual orientation. It has popularly been accepted by many, but it is not so regarding FEDERAL law. States laws vary.<br><br>It is legal to discriminate against GLBT people in employment in 32 states.<br><a href="http://www.hrc.org/about_us/state_laws.asp" rel="nofollow">http://www.hrc.org/about_us/state_laws.asp</a><br>Here\'s a list of issues with pdf maps of the US. Check out what your state says on these issues:<br>    *   Parenting Laws in the U.S.  pdf (172.86KB)<br><br>    * Statewide Employment Laws and Policies pdf (85.37KB)<br><br>    * Relationship Recognition in the U.S. pdf (79.11KB)<br><br>    * Statewide Marriage Prohibition Laws pdf (73.61KB)<br><br>    * State Hate Crimes Laws pdf (91.16KB)<br><br>    * Statewide School Laws and Policies pdf (85.13KB)</div>\
	 </div>\
	 </li>\
	 <li id="dsq-comment-3783532">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-header-3783532" class="dsq-comment-header">\
	 <cite id="dsq-cite-3783532" class="dsq-comment-cite">\
	 <span id="dsq-author-user-3783532">Michelle</span>\
	 </cite>\
	 </div>\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-body-3783532" class="dsq-comment-body">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-message-3783532" class="dsq-comment-message">This a request from me personally, I do not speak for anyone here except myself but I am sick of this -- to my bones sick of it.<br><br>Could you PLEASE not continue the flawed practice of comparing same-gender marriage to interracial marriage?<br><br>PLEASE?!<br><br>It does more harm than good IMO.<br><br>If we can\'t find arguments that don\'t reply on analogy to the Civil Rights movement, if we can\'t find arguments that speak to the actual reality of the actual situation at hand, then ..... no. Just no.<br><br>Please.</div>\
	 </div>\
	 </li>\
	 <li id="dsq-comment-3783978">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-header-3783978" class="dsq-comment-header">\
	 <cite id="dsq-cite-3783978" class="dsq-comment-cite">\
	 <a id="dsq-author-user-3783978" href="http://www.actsoffaithblog.com" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">Acts Of Faith Blog</a>\
	 </cite>\
	 </div>\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-body-3783978" class="dsq-comment-body">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-message-3783978" class="dsq-comment-message">You\'re right Michelle. But it\'s the entire discourse of the argument. It\'s either about being a \'minority\' or civil rights or the Loving case. And though I support it, it is somewhat confusing terminology and appropriates aspects of other social progress that isn\'t related. I wish there would be a new, concise meme presented wholly separate from the current positions and the legalise would not be presented as a catch-all scenario. <br><br>Was that too vague?</div>\
	 </div>\
	 </li>\
	 <li id="dsq-comment-3784348">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-header-3784348" class="dsq-comment-header">\
	 <cite id="dsq-cite-3784348" class="dsq-comment-cite">\
	 <span id="dsq-author-user-3784348">Michelle</span>\
	 </cite>\
	 </div>\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-body-3784348" class="dsq-comment-body">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-message-3784348" class="dsq-comment-message">Not too vague for me, heartsandflowers. Though I have an allergy to that word "meme" for some reason but don\'t know why.<br><br><i>But it\'s the entire discourse of the argument. It\'s either about being a \'minority\' or civil rights or the Loving case. And though I support it, it is somewhat confusing terminology and appropriates aspects of other social progress that isn\'t related. I wish there would be a new, concise meme presented wholly separate from the current positions and the legalise would not be presented as a catch-all scenario.</i><br><br>*nod nod nod*<br><br>IMO, it detracts from real clarity about the actual landscape we\'re in. That kind of clarity, for me, is probably my highest priority in life. Because the way I feel the world, action without as much clarity as possible doesn\'t respond to what is really going on and that makes everything distorted.<br><br>Now, some people and some groups are fine with largely ungrounded rhetoric. It can be useful in creating vague emotional associations that can under some circumstances affect people. Seems to me that much of the advertising industry is based on the promotion of blurry affective connections.<br><br>Myself, I find the CRM analogies to be inaccurate, dishonest and manipulative. And I find it disrespectful to the larger collective when social movement communication is about affective manipulation rather than dealing with each other in an honest and respectful manner.</div>\
	 </div>\
	 </li>\
	 <li id="dsq-comment-3784289">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-header-3784289" class="dsq-comment-header">\
	 <cite id="dsq-cite-3784289" class="dsq-comment-cite">\
	 <a id="dsq-author-user-3784289" href="http://www.bigassbelle.blogspot.com" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">bigassbelle</a>\
	 </cite>\
	 </div>\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-body-3784289" class="dsq-comment-body">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-message-3784289" class="dsq-comment-message">And it\'s flawed how? Interracial marriage was against the law. Gay marriage is against the law. Where does the comparison not work ? <br><br>How is this not a civil rights issue? As citizens of this nation, we should all enjoy the same rights. For one segment of society to be disallowed rights possessed by another . . . I\'m not understanding what kind of issue this is if not civil rights?</div>\
	 </div>\
	 </li>\
	 <li id="dsq-comment-3784359">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-header-3784359" class="dsq-comment-header">\
	 <cite id="dsq-cite-3784359" class="dsq-comment-cite">\
	 <span id="dsq-author-user-3784359">Michelle</span>\
	 </cite>\
	 </div>\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-body-3784359" class="dsq-comment-body">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-message-3784359" class="dsq-comment-message">belle, I\'m not going to argue with you.<br><br>I asked. That\'s all I\'m going to do.</div>\
	 </div>\
	 </li>\
	 <li id="dsq-comment-3784718">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-header-3784718" class="dsq-comment-header">\
	 <cite id="dsq-cite-3784718" class="dsq-comment-cite">\
	 <a id="dsq-author-user-3784718" href="http://www.bigassbelle.blogspot.com" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">bigassbelle</a>\
	 </cite>\
	 </div>\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-body-3784718" class="dsq-comment-body">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-message-3784718" class="dsq-comment-message">I\'m not wanting to argue. I don\'t know where your frustration is coming from. <br><br>The only explanation I\'ve heard so far from folks who don\'t want to equate this to civil rights, or who don\'t like the comparison to interracial marriage, are those who insist it\'s not the same because being gay is a choice.</div>\
	 </div>\
	 </li>\
	 <li id="dsq-comment-3785214">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-header-3785214" class="dsq-comment-header">\
	 <cite id="dsq-cite-3785214" class="dsq-comment-cite">\
	 <span id="dsq-author-user-3785214">Michelle</span>\
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	 <div id="dsq-comment-body-3785214" class="dsq-comment-body">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-message-3785214" class="dsq-comment-message">The thing is, it\'s so <b>obvious</b> to me that this is inaccurate that I don\'t even know how to articulate it. especially when my brain is tired like it is right now. <br><br>It\'s just obvious to me that the actual context -- historical and otherwise, the actual reality of the actual larger systems these were/are part of and lived experiences related to that -- is just not the same. <br><br>And a shift into abstraction and analogy-comparison in this situation moves things into an idealized ungrounded arena that I find painful.<br><br>And you know, I don\'t like it because I find it manipulative. Instead of grounding the struggle in the actual lived experiences of actual people and building from the ground up, it starts with rhetorical analogies to something that has certain affective meanings in the larger culture.  <br><br>It starts with a narrative framework that is not what we\'re actually dealing with and that starting place creates distortions, so that what is actually going on is less important than the "narrative" being created. Un-linking the central communication of the movement  from actual lived reality takes away certain kinds of power related to truth.<br><br>And BTW, I hate the whole argument about whether being gay is or isn\'t a choice. Some of us don\'t appreciate the "it\'s not a choice" argument. It\'s as if there\'s something wrong with us and we have to do a sort of "but I can\'t help it" approach. I try to challenge the whole is it/isn\'t it approach because the way I feel it, I lose on either side because my humanity gets compromised in a subtle way.<br><br>Of course, if the question is whether and how we actually can/can\'t, or do/don\'t, pass as straight and how that plays out in terms of actual lived privilege and oppression dynamics across the range of diversity among LGBT people, then maybe we could have a real discussion based in reality.<br><br>Honestly, the more I think about all this the more it seems like the whole communication between different sides re: this same-gender marriage thing is like a trading of rhetorical symbols back and forth rather than actually looking at what is going on and exploring where there are and aren\'t possibilities to move.<br><br>But I don\'t know that this explains anything. It all makes sense to me but I don\'t necessarily know how to articulate it. I said some stuff closely related to some of this in my reply to heartsandflowers, below if that is of any help.</div>\
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	 <li id="dsq-comment-3786062">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-header-3786062" class="dsq-comment-header">\
	 <cite id="dsq-cite-3786062" class="dsq-comment-cite">\
	 <span id="dsq-author-user-3786062">Nate_Wesley</span>\
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	 <div id="dsq-comment-body-3786062" class="dsq-comment-body">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-message-3786062" class="dsq-comment-message">But as you said Michelle, it\'s obvious to you.  I\'m not sure everyone agrees with your stance, which is why its confusing as to why you\'d ask someone who might believe differently not to speak their mind.</div>\
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	 <li id="dsq-comment-3786328">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-header-3786328" class="dsq-comment-header">\
	 <cite id="dsq-cite-3786328" class="dsq-comment-cite">\
	 <span id="dsq-author-user-3786328">TruthSeeker</span>\
	 </cite>\
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	 <div id="dsq-comment-body-3786328" class="dsq-comment-body">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-message-3786328" class="dsq-comment-message">Good point.<br><br>And, the expectation implicit in the appeal,  seems to be that they would acquiesce....why on earth would they?</div>\
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	 <li id="dsq-comment-3786567">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-header-3786567" class="dsq-comment-header">\
	 <cite id="dsq-cite-3786567" class="dsq-comment-cite">\
	 <a id="dsq-author-user-3786567" href="http://www.actsoffaithblog.com" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">Acts Of Faith Blog</a>\
	 </cite>\
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	 <div id="dsq-comment-body-3786567" class="dsq-comment-body">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-message-3786567" class="dsq-comment-message">I think she may be weary of discussing this an abstract way explaining historical contexts and trying to separate those that may oppose LGBT marriages with those that are supportive and separating the much needed conversation about intolerance from a lot of Black people with the racism within the Gay Right\'s movement and issues affecting LGBT PoC - which she actually has to live with - while we\'re "just" discussing it. <br><br>Perhaps similar to having to explain to a well meaning white person who identifies as liberal but has a lot of ignorance on white privilege vs. addressing a more hostile white supremacist. It gets tiring either way.  ????????</div>\
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	 <li id="dsq-comment-3786967">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-header-3786967" class="dsq-comment-header">\
	 <cite id="dsq-cite-3786967" class="dsq-comment-cite">\
	 <span id="dsq-author-user-3786967">Michelle</span>\
	 </cite>\
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	 <div id="dsq-comment-body-3786967" class="dsq-comment-body">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-message-3786967" class="dsq-comment-message"><i>issues affecting LGBT PoC - which she actually has to live with - while we\'re "just" discussing it. </i><br><br>No -- I\'m white.</div>\
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	 <li id="dsq-comment-3791849">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-header-3791849" class="dsq-comment-header">\
	 <cite id="dsq-cite-3791849" class="dsq-comment-cite">\
	 <a id="dsq-author-user-3791849" href="http://www.actsoffaithblog.com" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">Acts Of Faith Blog</a>\
	 </cite>\
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	 <div id="dsq-comment-body-3791849" class="dsq-comment-body">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-message-3791849" class="dsq-comment-message">Ok I should have included all LGBT but I\'m just throwing out my opinions rather quickly here.</div>\
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	 <li id="dsq-comment-3793108">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-header-3793108" class="dsq-comment-header">\
	 <cite id="dsq-cite-3793108" class="dsq-comment-cite">\
	 <span id="dsq-author-user-3793108">Michelle</span>\
	 </cite>\
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	 <div id="dsq-comment-body-3793108" class="dsq-comment-body">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-message-3793108" class="dsq-comment-message">It\'s ok, I just wanted to be upfront/clear on my end as a matter of my own responsibility, heartsandflowers.</div>\
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	 <li id="dsq-comment-3786816">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-header-3786816" class="dsq-comment-header">\
	 <cite id="dsq-cite-3786816" class="dsq-comment-cite">\
	 <span id="dsq-author-user-3786816">Michelle</span>\
	 </cite>\
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	 <div id="dsq-comment-body-3786816" class="dsq-comment-body">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-message-3786816" class="dsq-comment-message"><i>why you\'d ask someone who might believe differently not to speak their mind</i><br><br>This is a way of seeing things that just doesn\'t make sense with how I most organically experience dialogue/communication.<br><br>But even though it doesn\'t make organic sense to me, I understand that it is totally coherent with how people communicate in this society.<br><br>It is fully my responsibility to understand this, IMO, and be wise in my actions given this disconnect. But that doesn\'t mean it\'s easy or that I do it all the time. Sometimes I don\'t fulfill this responsibility. And this may well be one of those times.<br><br>The other question that comes up for me reading this comment is to what extent my initial comment to belle has actually functioned as useful or not to the larger discussion. <br><br>It may be that it\'s so confusing that I don\'t have the energy to sufficiently explain what\'s obvious to me that it was not a particularly useful thing for me to do in the larger discussion. <br><br>If that\'s the situation, I apologize -- certainly there\'s plenty of other aspects of this issue to focus energy on without me introducing something that mainly functions to add confusion to the larger discussion, or otherwise adds more problems than usefulness.<br><br>It is certainly the case that I am trying to figure some things out about the marriage equality movement and its approaches for myself -- and that from this space I may be overly focused on my own learning and frustrations, and not focused enough on the larger group in a discussion like this, and not focused enough on how I might contribute to it in  the most useful way possible.</div>\
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	 </li>\
	 <li id="dsq-comment-3786451">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-header-3786451" class="dsq-comment-header">\
	 <cite id="dsq-cite-3786451" class="dsq-comment-cite">\
	 <a id="dsq-author-user-3786451" href="http://www.actsoffaithblog.com" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">Acts Of Faith Blog</a>\
	 </cite>\
	 </div>\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-body-3786451" class="dsq-comment-body">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-message-3786451" class="dsq-comment-message">Interracial marriages (anti-miscegenation laws) were written into the law specifically after slavery. And after Black people were deemed as \'whole\' people and not 3/5s. It was part of the State\'s rights argument and had to be settled federally like so many laws.  Gay marriage is not written as being against the law. It is written as not being a legalized definition of marriage. <br><br>Civil Rights was about setting aside the backlash from Emancipation and Jim Crow for Black people, though it wasn\'t able to secure a lot of the original promises like the 40 aces and a mule. <br><br>Adam Clayton Powell tried to destroy MLK politically by exposing Baynard Rustin, architect of the March on Washington because he was gay. Most people don\'t even know of his contribution or his orientation and he removed himself for the good of the work. <br><br>Clearly MLK didn\'t have a problem with it but it would have undermined the efforts at getting the Civil Rights Act passed on top of the resistance from LBJ and of course all the violence. Then MLK was murdered. If things hadn\'t been shrouded in this cloud of secrecy perhaps some inroads could have been made a long time ago, but sometimes you have fight one battle at a time.  <br><br>A lot of Black people rightfully bristle at the co-opting of a movement for racial equality that was borne out of the Black church were people used (their idea of) biblical principles about fighting for their freedom from oppression. <br><br>Since the larger Gay movement deploys a majority of white, usually male spokespeople claiming to be oppressed in the same way, it rings hollow and insincere. Further they are the ones usually running the organizations as well. So there is a glaring lack of inclusion and outreach amongst LGBT PoC. <br><br>Also this can be argued as a class issue since less financially secure LGBT people have more immediate concerns like jobs, housing, medical expenses, etc and the official agenda is focused solely on marriage as a panacea for inequality.<br><br>I think I covered all the bases, but someone else feel free to chime in.</div>\
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	 <li id="dsq-comment-3784251">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-header-3784251" class="dsq-comment-header">\
	 <cite id="dsq-cite-3784251" class="dsq-comment-cite">\
	 <span id="dsq-author-user-3784251">TruthSeeker</span>\
	 </cite>\
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	 <div id="dsq-comment-body-3784251" class="dsq-comment-body">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-message-3784251" class="dsq-comment-message">I think the benefit of this is in how it makes me feel when I read it.   Suddenly, when I have a potential personal stake in the argument...it takes on a whole new meaning.   The challenge is, to have the empathy without the personal stake...I suppose.<br>;-)<br><br>Now, the funny thing about religion, is that if anyone made Christians live according to the letter of their biblical law....their lives would quickly become unbearable.   Yet, they want to make others who do not believe conform to that law.</div>\
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	 <li id="dsq-comment-3786439">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-header-3786439" class="dsq-comment-header">\
	 <cite id="dsq-cite-3786439" class="dsq-comment-cite">\
	 <span id="dsq-author-user-3786439">Val</span>\
	 </cite>\
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	 <div id="dsq-comment-body-3786439" class="dsq-comment-body">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-message-3786439" class="dsq-comment-message">"Now, the funny thing about religion, is that if anyone made Christians live according to the letter of their biblical law....their lives would quickly become unbearable. Yet, they want to make others who do not believe conform to that law."<br><br>I have been deliberately silent on this matter because I believe everyone has the right to make choices on how to live their lives and that God gives everyone freedom to choose.  You can either choose to abide by His laws or not to.  But you can\'t expect to go against His teachings and expect everyone who are believers in those teachings to approve of anything that is against those biblical teachings.  It just doesn\'t work that way.  <br><br>We all have choices.  The bible says – “judge not lest thee be judged.”    <br>We can decide to live however we want with whomever we want but with those decisions we should acknowledge that ultimately we have to accept responsibility for those personal choices and that is between the individual and God.  So, it is not a matter of conformity.  You can\'t expect a religion to ignore its teachings and approve of what they believe is against the laws of Christ.</div>\
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	 <li id="dsq-comment-3786998">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-header-3786998" class="dsq-comment-header">\
	 <cite id="dsq-cite-3786998" class="dsq-comment-cite">\
	 <span id="dsq-author-user-3786998">TruthSeeker</span>\
	 </cite>\
	 </div>\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-body-3786998" class="dsq-comment-body">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-message-3786998" class="dsq-comment-message">What I expect of believers is at minimum, to be consistent.    I can\'t expect rationality, because fundamentally, the belief system is irrational.<br><br>For example, you say that your god "gives everyone freedom to choose", and "..<b>we have to accept responsibility</b> for those personal choices and that is <b>between the individual and God</b>."   Here, you seem to suggest that your approval is irrelevant...it is only the approval of your god that matters.   Logic would dictate, that if you truly believe what you say, you would not intervene in the making of those choices  by proselytizing or by ballot.   You would <i>indeed</i> allow your god to deal with, or approve of those choices as it felt fit.<br><br>However, you go on to say that I can\'t expect that believers will approve of things that go against biblical teachings.   Somewhere along the line, you switched your belief from <i>only your god\'s approval counts</i> to your approval counts and should be acted upon.    So I ask, who is the god here?    And, do you really believe what you say you do, and if so - how strongly do you believe on a scale from one to ten?<br><br>Then you say "judge not lest thee be judged." - switching back to <i>only your god\'s approval counts</i>.<br><br>You go on to say that I can\'t expect religion to ignore it\'s teachings; however, it seems you have ignored your own teaching between paragraphs one and three.   I am looking for consistency, at minimum.<br><br>I would like to see Christians live out their own teachings in their own lives.   In fact, I would love to see a ballot initiative that supports this, to see how many Christians voted yea or nay.<br><br>I would like to see Christian women be silent and perfectly submissive to their husbands.   I would like to see Christians not judge, lest they be judged.   I would like to see you model your life according to 6th century beliefs, be one of many wives and put your child to death if he disobeys.  I would like Christian men never to spill their seed...ever.   I would like Christian women to forsake contraception and bring to term every pregnancy, included those that result from incest and rape.  You know, ....a little consistency.<br><br>The secular world can observe you...and if you succeed and not utterly destroy yourselves - then and only then will we be in awe, and allow you to make decisions for the rest of us, based on your beliefs.</div>\
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	 <li id="dsq-comment-3792139">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-header-3792139" class="dsq-comment-header">\
	 <cite id="dsq-cite-3792139" class="dsq-comment-cite">\
	 <span id="dsq-author-user-3792139">Val</span>\
	 </cite>\
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	 <div id="dsq-comment-body-3792139" class="dsq-comment-body">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-message-3792139" class="dsq-comment-message">You are so wrong about me Truthseeker.  :-)<br><br>Truth - this is why I LOVE JJP and I appreciate our conversations.  <br><br>Here\'s a personal story.  I was raised in a religious household and I was raised knowing that sex before marriage was a sin.  Period.  It was in the scriptures, I read it , understood it and accepted it as truth (there are other sins but let me focus on this one as an example).<br><br>At 19 years old I chose to have sex knowing if I died that same day I would probably burn in hell or worse (not be accepted into the kingdom) because it was against the laws of Christ.  But I made my choice, relished the experiences and I was fully aware of the cost of my decision.  I enjoyed the physical acts and nothing and no one was out of bounds.  I selected who I wanted to be involved with and when.  <br><br>Did I expect my parents or anyone in the Church to approve of my choices?  No, absolutely not but it wasn\'t their business it was my own.  The responsibility was mine.  <br><br>Did I expect for someone to pass laws to enforce the acceptance of those decisions by any religious group?  No absolutely not.  It was against everything in the scripture and against the teachings of God and the Christian faith.  Besides, I didn\'t need their approval.  Ultimately I was accountable to only one person and I was willing to accept the cost.  Long story short, finally I made a personal choice to go back to my religion and stop what I was doing because I wanted to be in line with my faith.<br><br>So the moral of this story is what?  If this decision is left up to the religious community Prop 8 will NEVER pass because it is against the laws.  They are not allowed to be complicit and allow these things to happen otherwise they are held equally responsible and accountable for those actions.  <br><br>So what do we do about Prop 8 -- Remove the word "marriage" from the equation as it is based on religious beliefs.  Leave civil unions to the courts of each state and provide recipients of civil unions the same rights as those applied to  ALL people under the laws of "marriage".   <br>********************************************************************<br>You had some other great conversation starters. "I would like to see Christian women be silent and perfectly submissive to their husbands. I would like to see Christians not judge, lest they be judged. I would like to see you model your life according to 6th century beliefs, be one of many wives and put your child to death if he disobeys. I would like Christian men never to spill their seed...ever. I would like Christian women to forsake contraception and bring to term every pregnancy, included those that result from incest and rape. You know, ....a little consistency."<br><br>I think you are misinterpreting those scriptures :-) but we can save those for another time.  Great points though and I appreciate the conversation.</div>\
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	 <li id="dsq-comment-3792555">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-header-3792555" class="dsq-comment-header">\
	 <cite id="dsq-cite-3792555" class="dsq-comment-cite">\
	 <a id="dsq-author-user-3792555" href="http://craighickman.blogspot.com" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">CraigHickman</a>\
	 </cite>\
	 </div>\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-body-3792555" class="dsq-comment-body">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-message-3792555" class="dsq-comment-message">Where and in what words do the" laws of Christ" forbid premarital sex?</div>\
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	 <li id="dsq-comment-3795712">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-header-3795712" class="dsq-comment-header">\
	 <cite id="dsq-cite-3795712" class="dsq-comment-cite">\
	 <span id="dsq-author-user-3795712">Val</span>\
	 </cite>\
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	 <div id="dsq-comment-body-3795712" class="dsq-comment-body">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-message-3795712" class="dsq-comment-message">Hi Craig -- it is all over the bible.  Here are a few from the old and new testament.<br><br>Old Testament Scriptures Regarding Sex Before Marriage<br>Exodus 22:16-17<br>If a man seduces a virgin who is not pledged to be married and sleeps with her, he must pay the bride-price, and she shall be his wife. If her father absolutely refuses to give her to him, he must still pay the bride-price for virgins.<br><br>[If premarital sex occurs, then an Israelite male was to marry the woman he slept with - that is, assuming the father allowed the marriage.]<br><br>Deuteronomy 22:13-21<br>If a man takes a wife and, after lying with her, dislikes her and slanders her and gives her a bad name, saying, "I married this woman, but when I approached her, I did not find proof of her virginity," then the girl\'s father and mother shall bring proof that she was a virgin to the town elders at the gate. The girl\'s father will say to the elders, "I gave my daughter in marriage to this man, but he dislikes her. Now he has slandered her and said, \'I did not find your daughter to be a virgin.\' But here is the proof of my daughter\'s virginity." Then her parents shall display the cloth before the elders of the town, and the elders shall take the man and punish him. They shall fine him a hundred shekels of silver and give them to the girl\'s father, because this man has given an Israelite virgin a bad name. She shall continue to be his wife; he must not divorce her as long as he lives. If, however, the charge is true and no proof of the girl\'s virginity can be found, she shall be brought to the door of her father\'s house and there the men of her town shall stone her to death. She has done a disgraceful thing in Israel by being promiscuous while still in her father\'s house. You must purge the evil from among you. <br><br>Proverbs 5:15-21<br>Drink water from your own cistern, running water from your own well. Should your springs overflow in the streets, your streams of water in the public squares? Let them be yours alone, never to be shared with strangers. May your fountain be blessed, and may you rejoice in the wife of your youth. A loving doe, a graceful deer-- may her breasts satisfy you always, may you ever be captivated by her love. Why be captivated, my son, by an adulteress? Why embrace the bosom of another man\'s wife? For a man\'s ways are in full view of the LORD, and he examines all his paths.<br><br>[A man\'s "fountain" should be saved for "the wife of [his] youth." The man is to be a virgin when he takes his wife.]<br><br>[In addition to these three Scriptures, there are 32 other verses in the Old Testament speaking about a "virgin" or "virgins." Each of these passages shows that virginity was highly cherished as the standard for God\'s people.]<br><br>New Testament Scriptures Regarding Sex Before Marriage<br>[When we come to the New Testament we don\'t have verses explicitly describing the act of premarital sex and its consequences like we do in Exodus or Deuteronomy. It is clear, however, that virginity is still the standard for unmarried Christians and that sex outside the context of marriage is still considered sin.]<br><br>1 Corinthians 6:16-18<br>Do you not know that he who unites himself with a prostitute is one with her in body? For it is said, "The two will become one flesh." But he who unites himself with the Lord is one with him in spirit. Flee from sexual immorality. All other sins a man commits are outside his body, but he who sins sexually sins against his own body. <br><br>[Sexual intimacy "unites" you with the other person. When this uniting of flesh happens outside of marriage, it is called "sexual immorality." One fleshness is to be limited to the one you marry. This is similar to what we saw in Exodus 22:16-17.] <br><br>1 Corinthians 7:1-2<br>Now about the questions you asked in your letter. Yes, it is good to live a celibate life. But because there is so much sexual immorality, each man should have his own wife, and each woman should have her own husband.<br><br>1 Corinthians 7:8-9<br>Now I say to those who aren\'t married and to widows it\'s better to stay unmarried, just as I am. But if they can\'t control themselves, they should go ahead and marry. It\'s better to marry than to burn with lust.<br><br>[If you are struggling with wanting to have sex, get married. Premarital sex isn\'t an option for dealing with lust. It\'s either marriage or you are in sexual sin.]<br><br>Ephesians 5:31<br><br>"For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh."<br><br>[Paul is quoting from Genesis 2:24 and affirming the Old Testament standard of uniting in flesh only with your spouse. One fleshness is to happen when a man leaves his father and mother and is "united to his wife." Compare with 1 Corinthians 6:16-18.]<br><br>1 Thessalonians 4:2-8<br>For you know what instructions we gave you by the authority of the Lord Jesus. It is God\'s will that you should be sanctified: that you should avoid sexual immorality; that each of you should learn to acquire a wife in a way that is holy and honorable, not in passionate lust like the heathen, who do not know God; and that in this manner no one should cheat his brother or take advantage of him. <br><br>The Lord will punish men for all such sins, as we have already told you and warned you. For God did not call us to be impure, but to live a holy life. Therefore, he who rejects this instruction does not reject man but God, who gives you his Holy Spirit.<br><br>["Acquire a wife in a way that is holy and honorable" or you are in sexual immorality. Sexual sin harms others besides those who engage in it. In adultery, the spouse is always wronged. Premarital sex "cheats" the future partner by robbing him or her of the virginity that ought to be brought to marriage.]<br><br>Hebrews 13:4<br>Marriage should be honored by all, and the marriage bed kept pure, for God will judge the adulterer and all the sexually immoral. <br><br>[Again, it\'s a pure marriage bed or you are an "adulterer" or "sexually immoral."]<br><br>1 Timothy 5:2<br>Treat older women as mothers, and younger women as sisters, with absolute purity. <br><br>[As a Christian man, if you are not married to her, then she is your sister (who you must treat "with absolute purity").]<br><br>1 Corinthians 7:7:28,34,36-38<br><br>[Note in these verses how virginity is assumed for unmarried women living in Christian homes. This is the same thing as we saw in the Old Testament. Virginity was the standard for God\'s people.]<br><br>2 Corinthians 11:2<br>I am jealous for you with a godly jealousy. I promised you to one husband, to Christ, so that I might present you as a pure virgin to him.<br><br>[Although this passage is talking about Christ and His people, it uses the analogy of a Christian man receiving his bride "as a pure virgin." Virginity was the ideal. Premarital sex was viewed as sexual immorality - just as in the Old Testament.]<br><br><br>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------<br><br>The standard in both the Old and New Testament regarding premarital sex is the same. Premarital sex is considered sin and a violation of the uniting of bodies that should happen only in marriage.<br><br>It is important to say, however, that many Christians have violated this standard. THIS WAS TRUE OF THOSE IN THE EARLY CHURCH TOO.<br><br>1 Corinthians 6:9-11<br>Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders... will inherit the kingdom of God. And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.<br><br>Christians were sinners before they came to Christ and Christians are still sinners after they come to Christ. If you have violated God\'s standards of premarital sex, but are repentant, then accept the FACT that you are washed, made pure, and in a right relationship with your heavenly Father. Seek the miracle of His power filling you to overcome further temptation toward sexual sin.<br><br>Craig there are a lot more but that should give you some insight.<br><br>Blessings<br>- Val</div>\
	 </div>\
	 </li>\
	 <li id="dsq-comment-3784909">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-header-3784909" class="dsq-comment-header">\
	 <cite id="dsq-cite-3784909" class="dsq-comment-cite">\
	 <span id="dsq-author-user-3784909">JJai</span>\
	 </cite>\
	 </div>\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-body-3784909" class="dsq-comment-body">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-message-3784909" class="dsq-comment-message">Must you villify Christians on so many posts with such a broad stroke? I read your posts and know that you are very intelligent. Wouldn\'t you/aren\'t you offended when Christians malign the character of atheists and agnostics with that same brush? <br><br>Perhaps, you should use the logic of bigabelle (basically put the shoe on the other foot) when considering Christians and the monolithic ideas which you prescribe to this group, a group of folks who are flawed like all others. Many who are attempting to be their best selves. It seems to me, if you dismiss the logic/ moralty/possibility for true and good motivation of all Christians then it invalidates your argument that the same behavior when espoused by Christians is ignorant.</div>\
	 </div>\
	 </li>\
	 <li id="dsq-comment-3792527">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-header-3792527" class="dsq-comment-header">\
	 <cite id="dsq-cite-3792527" class="dsq-comment-cite">\
	 <a id="dsq-author-user-3792527" href="http://craighickman.blogspot.com" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">CraigHickman</a>\
	 </cite>\
	 </div>\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-body-3792527" class="dsq-comment-body">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-message-3792527" class="dsq-comment-message"><i>Now, the funny thing about religion, is that if anyone made Christians live according to the letter of their biblical law....their lives would quickly become unbearable.</i><br><br>::<br><br>From extended family experiences, I can tell you that the strict constructionists among them when it comes Biblical law have had unbearable lives since birth.</div>\
	 </div>\
	 </li>\
	 <li id="dsq-comment-3785645">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-header-3785645" class="dsq-comment-header">\
	 <cite id="dsq-cite-3785645" class="dsq-comment-cite">\
	 <a id="dsq-author-user-3785645" href="http://blog.evavegadiversity.com/" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">evita</a>\
	 </cite>\
	 </div>\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-body-3785645" class="dsq-comment-body">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-message-3785645" class="dsq-comment-message">Answers:<br><br>1. Legal ramifications of gay marriage from San Francisco Chronicle<br><a href="http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2008/06/05/BU061139DK.DTL" rel="nofollow">http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/...</a><br><br><br>2. Can pastors be arrested and Churches lose their taxes exempt status, no? All states are different though. In California, no.<br><br><br><br>" Regarding the first two points, the majority opinion given by the California Supreme Court ruling on the constitutional right of same sex marriage clearly states that the tax exempt status of churches are protected and that church leaders cannot be sued for refusal to marry same-sex couples. Here is the language used regarding those protections:<br><br><br>"Finally, affording same-sex couples the opportunity to obtain the<br>designation of marriage will not impinge upon the religious freedom of any<br>religious organization, official, or any other person; no religion will be required to change its religious policies or practices with regard to same-sex couples, and no religious officiant will be required to solemnize a marriage in contravention of his or her religious beliefs. (Cal. Const., art. I, § 4.)72"<br><br><br>Here\'s the link to the actual State Supreme Court Decision: (The quoted citation can be found on page 117 of the PDF).<br><a href="http://www.hrcbackstory.org/files/CA-SupremeCtRuling.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://www.hrcbackstory.org/files/CA-SupremeCtR...</a><br><br>Given the clear protections outlined in the court ruling, the alarm raised over tax exemptions for churches and lawsuits against church leaders seems a bit unnecessary and perhaps even disingenuous."<br><br>Blog aritcle for above text and more debunking the falsehoods perpetuated by hate here:<br><a href="http://blogs.venturacountystar.com/dennert/archives/2008/10/on-california-p.html" rel="nofollow">http://blogs.venturacountystar.com/dennert/arch...</a>  <br><br>There was a priest who was arrested for refusing to marry a same sex couple- IN SWEDEN, not in the US.  Thee truly misinformed will site this example sans the detail about where.</div>\
	 </div>\
	 </li>\
	 <li id="dsq-comment-7878236">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-header-7878236" class="dsq-comment-header">\
	 <cite id="dsq-cite-7878236" class="dsq-comment-cite">\
	 <span id="dsq-author-user-7878236">joeAnne</span>\
	 </cite>\
	 </div>\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-body-7878236" class="dsq-comment-body">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-message-7878236" class="dsq-comment-message">Gay marriages are ok  as long as they don\'t interfere with the idea of adopting and raising a children. Anyway, I also have a question: is it true that at a certain point it might <a rel="follow" href="http://www.articlesnatch.com/Article/Saving-Your-Marriage-Need-Not-Be-a-Painful-Trip-Through-the-Past/524960" rel="nofollow">stop divorce</a>?</div>\
	 </div>\
	 </li>\
	 </ul>\
';

(function() {
	
	





Dsq.Debug.profile(function() {
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	}
	Dsq.$(Dsq.curPageId).innerHTML = Dsq.$(Dsq.curPageId).innerHTML.replace(Dsq.COMMENTS_RE, Dsq.CommentsHandler);
}); // Dsq.Debug.Profile

// HACK: Resetting cache because we're done with.
Dsq.Utils.gebiFromElementCollectionCache = null;


	
	
	var dsq_styleEl = document.getElementById(disqus_container_id);
	var dsq_anchorEl = document.getElementsByTagName('a')[0];
	
	Dsq.Thread.fc = Dsq.Utils.getStyle(dsq_styleEl, 'color');
	if(dsq_anchorEl) { Dsq.Thread.ac = Dsq.Utils.getStyle(dsq_anchorEl, 'color'); }
	Dsq.Thread.ff = Dsq.Utils.getStyle(dsq_styleEl, (Dsq.Utils.ie || window.opera ? 'fontFamily' : 'font-family'));
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	Dsq.Thread.ac = encodeURIComponent(Dsq.Thread.ac);
	Dsq.Thread.ff = encodeURIComponent(Dsq.Thread.ff);

	
	
	
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			Dsq.frames['reply_0'] = new Dsq.ReplyFrame(Dsq.$(Dsq.Templates.textareaContainer));
			Dsq.frames['reply_0'].init(function() {
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				Dsq.$(Dsq.Templates.addPostContainer).innerHTML = '';
				var theme = (typeof disqus_frame_theme == 'undefined') ? 'default' : disqus_frame_theme;
				Dsq.Iframes.showReplyIframeInContainer(Dsq.$(Dsq.Templates.addPostContainer), null, {theme: theme});
				// if(Dsq.Utils.ie) { Dsq.Utils.fixIframesIE(); }
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			// DEPRECATED
			Dsq.Iframes.showReplyIframeInContainer(Dsq.$('dsq-post-add'));
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	}

	
	

	
	if(document.location.hash != '') {
		document.location.hash = document.location.hash.substring(1);
	}

	Dsq.Popup.showCookieMsgs();

	
	if(document.location.search != '' && location.hash != '#disqus_thread') {
		var reply_id = Dsq.Utils.getRequestParams().dsq;
		if(reply_id) { document.location.hash = 'comment-' + reply_id; }
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	if((typeof OB_Script != 'undefined') && (typeof OB_versionNum != 'undefined')) {
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	window.ExecuteWhen = (function () {
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	// Private
	var running = false;
	var timer = null;
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	var startTimer = function() {
		running = true;
		timer = setInterval(obj.heartBeat, 100);
	};
	var stopTimer = function() {
		running = false;
		clearInterval(timer);
	};
	
	// Public
	obj.add = function (condition, code) {
		pending.push([condition,code]);
		this.heartBeat(); //!
		if (!running) {
			startTimer();
		}
	};
	obj.heartBeat = function() {
		if (!pending.length) {
			stopTimer();
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		var newPending = [];
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// also used in embed_thread.js:
window.fbIsReady = function () {return window.FB && FB.init;};
// NOTE: This script gets executed again without threadEl
//       set when we are loaded again as the fbc_receiver.
//       In this case, we don't need the hidden container.

if(!window.FB || !FB.init) {
	if(window.Dsq && Dsq.container) {
		// container is not present when init.js is loaded from an xd-receiver iframe; in this case,
		// we don't need the FB_HiddenContainer anyway.
		var fbDiv = document.createElement('div');
		fbDiv.id = "FB_HiddenContainer";	// Required or else FeatureLoader will execute a document.write.
		fbDiv.style.position = 'absolute';	// This is intentionally not setting display to none as this breaks
		fbDiv.style.top = '-10000px';		// Flash in Safari.
		fbDiv.style.left = '-10000px';
		fbDiv.style.width = '0px';
		fbDiv.style.height = '0px';
		Dsq.container.appendChild(fbDiv);
	}
	var fbJS = document.createElement('script');
	fbJS.type = "text/javascript";
	fbJS.src = "http://static.ak.connect.facebook.com/js/api_lib/v0.4/FeatureLoader.js.php";
	document.getElementsByTagName('head')[0].appendChild(fbJS);

	ExecuteWhen.add(window.fbIsReady,
		function () {
			// HACK: This is a workaround FBC's single domain limitation by
			//		 allowing sites to create multiple forums with different
			//		 Facebook API keys.  This must be used in conjunction with
			//		 disqus_facebook_forum (see authenticateFacebook).
			var facebook_api_key = 'bd6a8bc56f8eb204984f34b6fefe228d';
			if (typeof disqus_facebook_api_key != 'undefined') {
				facebook_api_key = disqus_facebook_api_key;
			}

			FB.init(facebook_api_key, window.facebookXdReceiverPath || null,
				{fetchSignedPublicSessionData: true});
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}


	


if(typeof(disqus_callback) == 'function') {
	var callback_params = Dsq.Utils.getRequestParams()['dsq_cbp'] || null;

	// We don't care about any errors in third-party code
	try {
		disqus_callback(callback_params);
	} catch (x) {
		if (typeof(console) != 'undefined' && typeof(console.log) == 'function') {
			// But it would be nice to let developers know about them
			console.log(x);
		}
		// pass
	}

	// HACK: We don't know if the callback wraps our container, which may
	// possibly result in a new DOM element.
	Dsq.container = document.getElementById('dsq-content');
}

})();




