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nephews.<br><br>In the background of the photographs<br>the hazy smoke of barbecue,<br>a checkered red and white tablecloth<br>laden with blackened chicken,<br>glistening ribs, paper plates,<br>bottles of beer and pop.<br><br>In the photos<br>the smallest children<br>are held by their parents.<br>My arms are empty, or around<br>the shoulders of unsuspecting aunts<br>expecting to throw rice at me someday.<br><br>Or picture tinsel, candles,<br>ornamented, imitation trees,<br>or another table, this one<br>set for Thanksgiving,<br>a turkey steaming the lens.<br><br>My arms are empty<br>in those photos, too,<br>so empty they would break<br>around a lover.<br><br>I am always there<br>for critical emergencies,<br>graduations,<br>the middle of the night.<br><br>I am the invisible son,<br>In the family photos<br>nothing appears out of character.<br>I smile as I serve my duty.", "is_last_child": false, "can_reply": true, "down_voted": false, "real_date": "2008-11-11_18:29:11", "killed": false, "user_key": "CraigHickman", "has_been_anonymized": false, "edited": false, "author_is_moderator": false, "from_request_user": false, "votable": true, "date": "1 year ago", "approved": true, "num_replies": 1, "is_first_child": false, "email": "", "parent_post_id": null, "depth": 0, "points": 0, "author_is_creator": false, "is_realtime": false}, "3684354": {"up_voted": false, "ip": "", "has_replies": true, "message": "Totally understand your point but hear this: There are more than 1,167 LEGAL rights denied to adult couples of the same sex  because \"marriage\" is said to between \"one man and one woman\" based on the term. It's spelled out in the way that some states require the individuals to be a certain age, have blood tests or whatever else, and it is all in the wording. Because of this gay people cannot \"marry\" and have a marriage because they cannot fulfill the requirements of the law of the State and most states don't offer another option which ensure rights (burial, health benefits etc). <br><br>Wiki offers this info:<br><br>Same-sex marriages have been recognized in Massachusetts since November 18, 2003, and in Connecticut since October 10, 2008.[3] Same-sex marriage only has effect at the state level as the U.S. federal government does not recognize same-sex marriages as marriages under federal law, in accordance with the Defense of Marriage Act.<br><br>Vermont, California, New Jersey, and New Hampshire have created legal unions that, while not called marriages, are explicitly defined as offering all the rights and responsibilities of marriage under state (though not federal) law to same-sex couples. Maine, Hawaii, the District of Columbia, Oregon and Washington have created legal unions for same-sex couples that offer varying subsets of the rights and responsibilities of marriage under the laws of those jurisdictions.<br><br>I do not believe in the substandard idea of civil unions- though legally it is a better recourse than none at all. Know that I say this because we all know that separate but equal DOES NOT WORK. When we treat ANY American differently legally under the eyes of the law, then the bigots will find a way to pay people differently, deny rights, and give ill treatment and so on. Jim Crow served the purpose of securing \"rights\" for whites just as Prop 8 is trying to preserve the rights of heterosexuals. Slippery slope...<br><br>THIS is why I propose the notion of changing the legal notion to ALL \"marriages in city hall\" or wherever being called civil unions whether you are gay or not and DROP the concept of marriage. Everyone has to use the same terms, fill out the same paperwork etc.  If there is a loophole, bigots and homophobes will find a way to use it. People are not being discriminated against because the venue they were married in, they are discriminated against because they can legally. The states use the TERM marriage. The Chruch uses the term marriage, and by the way the Church files the paperwork on your behalf so its all wrapped into one.<br><br>In most states- two adults of the same sex CANNOT go and get marriage license. You're missing this HUGE point.", "is_last_child": false, "can_reply": true, "down_voted": false, "real_date": "2008-11-11_15:50:49", "killed": false, "user_key": "evita", "has_been_anonymized": false, "edited": false, "author_is_moderator": false, "from_request_user": false, "votable": true, "date": "1 year ago", "approved": true, "num_replies": 7, "is_first_child": false, "email": "", "parent_post_id": 3681109, "depth": 4, "points": 0, "author_is_creator": false, "is_realtime": false}, "3695109": {"up_voted": false, "ip": "", "has_replies": false, "message": "And thank YOU, Craig.  <br><br><i>The ego is a big problem with social movements, but with the \"gay marriage movement\" in particular. When I hear my sisters and brothers say things such as, \"It feels like somebody just invalidated my love\" I have to wonder what their love is based on in the first place. Love doesn't need anybody's acceptance or approval.</i><br><br>My girlfriend and I have been talking about this exact thing lately! Yes.<br><br><i>I like the lessons you are learning from Barack's campaign. Something tells me I'm learning the same things, I just express it differently.</i><br><br>Especially given how very much I respect your perspective on things, Craig, I am really glad to hear this.", "is_last_child": false, "can_reply": true, "down_voted": false, "real_date": "2008-11-11_20:04:25", "killed": false, "user_key": "4ec3c0272b87ba5c8ce3a9168cf4e78a", "has_been_anonymized": false, "edited": false, "author_is_moderator": false, "from_request_user": null, "votable": true, "date": "1 year ago", "approved": true, "num_replies": 0, "is_first_child": false, "email": "", "parent_post_id": 3694531, "depth": 2, "points": 0, "author_is_creator": false, "is_realtime": false}, "3683857": {"up_voted": false, "ip": "", "has_replies": true, "message": "What are you saying the homophobia message is?<br><br>To teach youth that same gender sex is deviant is not hateful it is preservation of the species.", "is_last_child": false, "can_reply": true, "down_voted": false, "real_date": "2008-11-11_15:18:58", "killed": false, "user_key": "bf592ce4366b6f179fe40d8422c998a5", "has_been_anonymized": false, "edited": false, "author_is_moderator": false, "from_request_user": null, "votable": true, "date": "1 year ago", "approved": true, "num_replies": 7, "is_first_child": false, "email": "", "parent_post_id": 3683737, "depth": 2, "points": 0, "author_is_creator": false, "is_realtime": false}, "3686419": {"up_voted": false, "ip": "", "has_replies": true, "message": "Right, I would argue they are not the victims. They simply have an agenda which is not supported.", "is_last_child": false, "can_reply": true, "down_voted": false, "real_date": "2008-11-11_18:03:08", "killed": false, "user_key": "bf592ce4366b6f179fe40d8422c998a5", "has_been_anonymized": false, "edited": false, "author_is_moderator": false, "from_request_user": null, "votable": true, "date": "1 year ago", "approved": true, "num_replies": 6, "is_first_child": false, "email": "", "parent_post_id": 3686023, "depth": 3, "points": 0, "author_is_creator": false, "is_realtime": false}, "3680789": {"up_voted": false, "ip": "", "has_replies": true, "message": "Oh, and if you ask if a person chose to be straight, the usual answer is \"I was born straight.\"<br><br>All I'll say is that I knew when I was five years old that I liked boys. No rhyme or reason - I just liked and were attracted to boys at a very early age.  Not sexual attraction; just attraction.<br><br>I've also had gay people tell me that they never made a \"decision\" to be gay - many also said they knew at an early age that their attractions were different. I've also watched boys I grew up with who turned out to be gay, go through childhoods where their fathers tried to beat the \"gay\" out of them.  They always tell me, \"Do you think I would CHOOSE this type of hell - being gay?\"<br><br>Until I get scientific proof that being gay is a choice, I'm going to believe people are probably born with it, and then there are some who become gay because of sexual abuse from an opposite sex family member.  Go figure on that one.", "is_last_child": false, "can_reply": true, "down_voted": false, "real_date": "2008-11-11_12:16:51", "killed": false, "user_key": "CPL", "has_been_anonymized": false, "edited": false, "author_is_moderator": true, "from_request_user": false, "votable": true, "date": "1 year ago", "approved": true, "num_replies": 14, "is_first_child": false, "email": "", "parent_post_id": 3680509, "depth": 3, "points": 0, "author_is_creator": false, "is_realtime": false}, "3685399": {"up_voted": false, "ip": "", "has_replies": false, "message": "Me 2, that is how I see it.", "is_last_child": false, "can_reply": true, "down_voted": false, "real_date": "2008-11-11_16:58:19", "killed": false, "user_key": "Rhondacoca", "has_been_anonymized": false, "edited": false, "author_is_moderator": false, "from_request_user": false, "votable": true, "date": "1 year ago", "approved": true, "num_replies": 0, "is_first_child": false, "email": "", "parent_post_id": 3683538, "depth": 6, "points": 0, "author_is_creator": false, "is_realtime": false}, "3685406": {"up_voted": false, "ip": "", "has_replies": true, "message": "The part of 'leave me alone' I do not understand is your belief that you have carte blanche to bash the black Church and the Christian faith..without being call to account for your flawed reasoning.<br><br>You want to throw stones and then run and hide when folks come back ready to challenge you to a fight.<br><br>That is called intellectual dishonest.<br>If you want to make this bold faced glittering false generalities then you need to be able to back them up.<br><br>You showed no mercy when you bashed the black church and christianity, did you?<br><br>I do not care why you do not attend church. I do not attend church either. But I still know out and out falsehoods when I see them posted.<br><br>I am not judging you. I am holding you accountable for your assertions.<br><br>Man up!!", "is_last_child": false, "can_reply": true, "down_voted": false, "real_date": "2008-11-11_16:58:38", "killed": false, "user_key": "bf592ce4366b6f179fe40d8422c998a5", "has_been_anonymized": false, "edited": false, "author_is_moderator": false, "from_request_user": null, "votable": true, "date": "1 year ago", "approved": true, "num_replies": 1, "is_first_child": false, "email": "", "parent_post_id": 3684429, "depth": 8, "points": 0, "author_is_creator": false, "is_realtime": false}, "3678239": {"up_voted": false, "ip": "", "has_replies": true, "message": "I am so with you on this CPL.<br><br>What the white gay activists did was presume that the Black Community does not vote- and forgot about the Barrack Obama. They clearly weren't paying attention to mainstream media who was all saying there was going to be HUGE voter turnout. Where I believe there have been some strides, especially with GLSEN (Gay, Lesbian, Straight Education Network,) for most gay advocacy groups they are sorely lacking in inclusive thinking and the willingness to partner with groups that aren't 100% on their side of the issue.  I think this proposition got Baracked and instead of riding the wave, they crashed into it. (\"Their whiteness was showing,\" one might say.<br><br>I have said this hundreds of times to friends and anyone who would listen. If the term marriage is largely held to be a religious term then there should be NO USE of that term within the context of the law. We can argue in circles about people's faith and gradations of beliefs, but in the end- we were founded on the separation between church and state. I think they should abolish legal marriage and make it all CIVIL UNIONS. If you want a marriage- go take your behind to a Church, just like you were going to do in the first place. So all rights and privileges can go to civil union, and forget the religions connotations or interpretations of a term that is inherently antithetical to our American's founders beliefs. When you change the word, all the marriages of old (even the unhappy ones,) will continue to receive their civil rights and new unions will start to get them.<br><br>This is the time to pivot slightly on the issue, not continue the discussion in the same way.", "is_last_child": false, "can_reply": true, "down_voted": false, "real_date": "2008-11-11_09:25:59", "killed": false, "user_key": "evita", "has_been_anonymized": false, "edited": false, "author_is_moderator": false, "from_request_user": false, "votable": true, "date": "1 year ago", "approved": true, "num_replies": 16, "is_first_child": false, "email": "", "parent_post_id": null, "depth": 0, "points": 0, "author_is_creator": false, "is_realtime": false}, "3679781": {"up_voted": false, "ip": "", "has_replies": true, "message": "Rhonda, allow me to add this:<br><br><i>Also, if there is a separation between church and state then that means that the church should be left alone. They should not have tp change because they are being demanded by the state and vice versa.</i><br><br>If Churches are going to get themselves involved in politics, they should lose their tax-exempt status and start paying taxes, which then gives them the authority to use their pulpits for political activism.<br><br>You and I both know we will hear mice pissing on cotton when you put that in the faces of the Black Church; especially if Rev. Moneybags' exorbitant salary has to be taxed.<br><br>And I co-sign everything else you've said, but the separation of Church and State means just that.  If the Churches like the Black Churches, or Southern Baptists, Mormons, Catholics want to use their churches to engage in political activism, give up the tax-exempt status.<br><br>While we may hate corporations for the welfare the government gives them, and they are paying less taxes, nonetheless, they pay taxes.  The Church has been getting a free ride.  One of my Christian girlfriends told me she voted for Bush because the Church needed to start controlling the Government.<br><br>\"So when is the Church going to start paying Taxes?\" I asked her.<br><br>\"And look at how the Government is running, considering Bush put a lot of Religious wingnuts in charge.  How's that working for ya?\"<br><br>&lt;&lt;&lt;Crickets Chirping&gt;&gt;&gt;<br><br>I, for one, am tired of our people relying on Reverend Good-For-Nothing to do their thinking for them.  If we don't want people telling us how to act, then, for God's sake, we need to stop acting like Sheeple and engage in independence of thinking, because far too often, when one does the thinking for ALL, he/she can manipulate for personal gain.", "is_last_child": false, "can_reply": true, "down_voted": false, "real_date": "2008-11-11_11:11:04", "killed": false, "user_key": "CPL", "has_been_anonymized": false, "edited": false, "author_is_moderator": true, "from_request_user": false, "votable": true, "date": "1 year ago", "approved": true, "num_replies": 3, "is_first_child": false, "email": "", "parent_post_id": null, "depth": 0, "points": 0, "author_is_creator": false, "is_realtime": false}, "3682344": {"up_voted": false, "ip": "", "has_replies": true, "message": "WhiteRoseBuddy, after defending myself, I find myself in a good deal of pain because your comments triggered all the abuse I went through in the church.<br><br>I hope you're happy you've done that.  I hope you're satisfied that far from being understanding of my experience, all you have done is exascerbated and made it WORSE.<br><br>HAVE A NICE DAY.  You just demonstrated what I meant by showing absolutely no mercy, no compassion and no willingness to understand, and y'all wonder why people are running away from the Church in droves.", "is_last_child": false, "can_reply": true, "down_voted": false, "real_date": "2008-11-11_13:51:40", "killed": false, "user_key": "CPL", "has_been_anonymized": false, "edited": false, "author_is_moderator": true, "from_request_user": false, "votable": true, "date": "1 year ago", "approved": true, "num_replies": 14, "is_first_child": false, "email": "", "parent_post_id": 3680815, "depth": 3, "points": 0, "author_is_creator": false, "is_realtime": false}, "3678765": {"up_voted": false, "ip": "", "has_replies": false, "message": "I think everyone should go to the new President-Elect's web site and share their story about how gays only want the same chance at happiness as everyone else. <br><br><a href=\"http://change.gov/page/s/yourstory\" rel=\"nofollow\">http://change.gov/page/s/yourstory</a><br><br>Same-sex marriages will never be allowed the same rights as everyone else as long as the battles are taking place at the state level. The rights we deserve can only happen at the federal level.<br><br>As long as people think like this... <br><br>\"And please spare me the \u201canti-gay rights\u201d garbage.  Opposing the complete mangling of the definition of marriage is not the same thing as opposing civil rights.  Sorry, but two men can\u2019t get \u201cmarried\u201d any more than I can call myself the mayor of the Milky Way.  Gay \u201cmarriage\u201d is simply a thing that cannot be.\"<br><br><a href=\"http://crankycon.politicalbear.com/2008/11/11/au-revoir-charlie/\" rel=\"nofollow\">http://crankycon.politicalbear.com/2008/11/11/a...</a><br><br>We will have to continue to fight.", "is_last_child": false, "can_reply": true, "down_voted": false, "real_date": "2008-11-11_10:03:38", "killed": false, "user_key": "VastVariety", "has_been_anonymized": false, "edited": false, "author_is_moderator": false, "from_request_user": false, "votable": true, "date": "1 year ago", "approved": true, "num_replies": 0, "is_first_child": false, "email": "", "parent_post_id": null, "depth": 0, "points": 0, "author_is_creator": false, "is_realtime": false}, "3685935": {"up_voted": false, "ip": "", "has_replies": false, "message": "I am not preaching. I am presenting an argument based on Christian principles as that is what you chose to bash. The black church and christianity are the problem that your put forth as the issue. I am responding to that.<br><br>I don't need to be a christian to do that.", "is_last_child": false, "can_reply": true, "down_voted": false, "real_date": "2008-11-11_17:33:14", "killed": false, "user_key": "bf592ce4366b6f179fe40d8422c998a5", "has_been_anonymized": false, "edited": false, "author_is_moderator": false, "from_request_user": null, "votable": true, "date": "1 year ago", "approved": true, "num_replies": 0, "is_first_child": false, "email": "", "parent_post_id": 3685325, "depth": 4, "points": 0, "author_is_creator": false, "is_realtime": false}, "3679794": {"up_voted": false, "ip": "", "has_replies": true, "message": "evita, great minds think alike  :-)    because this is the same argument (church, state, marriage/civil unions) I've been having with people since forever!   It makes so much sense, if people *need* that marriage terminology then head over to your nearest church and have at it.", "is_last_child": false, "can_reply": true, "down_voted": false, "real_date": "2008-11-11_11:12:03", "killed": false, "user_key": "JenIA", "has_been_anonymized": false, "edited": false, "author_is_moderator": false, "from_request_user": false, "votable": true, "date": "1 year ago", "approved": true, "num_replies": 1, "is_first_child": true, "email": "", "parent_post_id": 3678239, "depth": 1, "points": 0, "author_is_creator": false, "is_realtime": false}, "3694645": {"up_voted": false, "ip": "", "has_replies": true, "message": "Michelle,<br><br>  I totally disagree with you.  WRB's logic is correct, and WRB correctly states the tenets of Christianity.  It is amazing that when the discussion deals with facts and logic and the analysis that follows therefrom, you state it is not productive.", "is_last_child": false, "can_reply": true, "down_voted": false, "real_date": "2008-11-11_19:33:29", "killed": false, "user_key": "jdickenslaw", "has_been_anonymized": false, "edited": false, "author_is_moderator": false, "from_request_user": false, "votable": true, "date": "1 year ago", "approved": true, "num_replies": 4, "is_first_child": false, "email": "", "parent_post_id": 3687163, "depth": 5, "points": 0, "author_is_creator": false, "is_realtime": false}, "3685812": {"up_voted": false, "ip": "", "has_replies": true, "message": "Once again, if you're not a practicing Christian, how do you justify all of what you have said, or the fact that nearly 90% of what you've posted here has been to bully and harass my opinions.<br><br>I've stated my experiences - you took them as wholesale indictment.<br><br>For the last time - LEAVE ME ALONE.  I am not a MAN, I stood by what I've said - I have no need to refute what has been MY EXPERIENCES.<br><br>In fact, I personally think you used me to present yourself as being superior and beating me down because I don't agree with the habit most Black Churches have of condemning and tearing people down.  Does it escape your notice that Black People are being wholly blamed for the passage of Prop 8?<br><br>Your attitude and your responses do nothing more than CONFIRM THEIR ALLEGATIONS.<br><br>Now, RunTelDat, cause I'm through.", "is_last_child": false, "can_reply": true, "down_voted": false, "real_date": "2008-11-11_17:26:25", "killed": false, "user_key": "CPL", "has_been_anonymized": false, "edited": false, "author_is_moderator": true, "from_request_user": false, "votable": true, "date": "1 year ago", "approved": true, "num_replies": 1, "is_first_child": false, "email": "", "parent_post_id": 3685645, "depth": 9, "points": 0, "author_is_creator": false, "is_realtime": false}, "3679808": {"up_voted": false, "ip": "", "has_replies": false, "message": "Exactly.", "is_last_child": false, "can_reply": true, "down_voted": false, "real_date": "2008-11-11_11:13:11", "killed": false, "user_key": "Rhondacoca", "has_been_anonymized": false, "edited": false, "author_is_moderator": false, "from_request_user": false, "votable": true, "date": "1 year ago", "approved": true, "num_replies": 0, "is_first_child": false, "email": "", "parent_post_id": 3678239, "depth": 1, "points": 0, "author_is_creator": false, "is_realtime": false}, "3683393": {"up_voted": false, "ip": "", "has_replies": false, "message": "<i>I had to leave the church I attended, because of the judgmentalism and lack of mercy.</i><br><br><br><br>Don't I know that too well. <br><br>Hypocrites!  They serve God with the lips & outward appearance!", "is_last_child": false, "can_reply": true, "down_voted": false, "real_date": "2008-11-11_14:50:03", "killed": false, "user_key": "Justice58", "has_been_anonymized": false, "edited": false, "author_is_moderator": false, "from_request_user": false, "votable": true, "date": "1 year ago", "approved": true, "num_replies": 0, "is_first_child": false, "email": "", "parent_post_id": 3682802, "depth": 9, "points": 0, "author_is_creator": false, "is_realtime": false}, "3685954": {"up_voted": false, "ip": "", "has_replies": true, "message": "Very thoughtful and thought provoking.", "is_last_child": false, "can_reply": true, "down_voted": false, "real_date": "2008-11-11_17:34:05", "killed": false, "user_key": "Lilytiger", "has_been_anonymized": false, "edited": false, "author_is_moderator": false, "from_request_user": false, "votable": true, "date": "1 year ago", "approved": true, "num_replies": 1, "is_first_child": true, "email": "", "parent_post_id": 3685784, "depth": 1, "points": 0, "author_is_creator": false, "is_realtime": false}, "3684931": {"up_voted": false, "ip": "", "has_replies": false, "message": "Well said.   From the outside, it's really hard to understand why \"No on 8\" didn't engage more with the communities they needed to convince.  It was really disappointing that so many people's knee-jerk response (clearly unsupportable by math) was to blame blacks and Latinos.  Hopefully the post-election grassroots activism will be a lot more inclusive.<br><br>Speaking of post-eleciton grassroots activism, <a href=\"http://jointheimpact.wetpaint.com/\" rel=\"nofollow\">Join the Impact</a> is the place for information about the National Day of Action on November 15.  <a href=\"http://www.pamshouseblend.com/showDiary.do?diaryId=8152#93571\" rel=\"nofollow\">Pam Spaudling's got info on the Bend about the Raleigh protest</a> ... there are a lot more out there as well.", "is_last_child": false, "can_reply": true, "down_voted": false, "real_date": "2008-11-11_16:25:00", "killed": false, "user_key": "JonPincus", "has_been_anonymized": false, "edited": false, "author_is_moderator": false, "from_request_user": false, "votable": true, "date": "1 year ago", "approved": true, "num_replies": 0, "is_first_child": false, "email": "", "parent_post_id": null, "depth": 0, "points": 0, "author_is_creator": false, "is_realtime": false}, "3701319": {"up_voted": false, "ip": "", "has_replies": true, "message": "Michelle, whiterosebuddy doth protest too much.<br><br>The closet is a terrible place to be. And one certainly can't have a rational discussion with someone who lives there and clings to... well...God and the guns of bigotry so vehemently in the defense of it.<br><br>Tarry no longer in a place with no doors.", "is_last_child": false, "can_reply": true, "down_voted": false, "real_date": "2008-11-12_07:33:11", "killed": false, "user_key": "CraigHickman", "has_been_anonymized": false, "edited": false, "author_is_moderator": false, "from_request_user": false, "votable": true, "date": "1 year ago", "approved": true, "num_replies": 1, "is_first_child": false, "email": "", "parent_post_id": 3698898, "depth": 2, "points": 0, "author_is_creator": false, "is_realtime": false}, "3684429": {"up_voted": false, "ip": "", "has_replies": true, "message": "Just stop talking to me about this issue WRB, because while you deny being a Christian, you damned sure are sounding like one and a judgemental one at that.<br><br>Your responses continue to cause me a great deal of pain, and I've asked you to stop.  The fact you won't respect my opinions and pass judgement on them is EXACTLY WHY I DON'T ATTEND THE CHURCH I USED TO ATTEND ANYMORE!<br><br>What part of \"leave me alone\" don't you understand?", "is_last_child": false, "can_reply": true, "down_voted": false, "real_date": "2008-11-11_15:55:42", "killed": false, "user_key": "CPL", "has_been_anonymized": false, "edited": false, "author_is_moderator": true, "from_request_user": false, "votable": true, "date": "1 year ago", "approved": true, "num_replies": 2, "is_first_child": false, "email": "", "parent_post_id": 3684055, "depth": 7, "points": 0, "author_is_creator": false, "is_realtime": false}, "3684621": {"up_voted": false, "ip": "", "has_replies": true, "message": "I think the real Field Negro posted the following:<br><br><a href=\"http://field-negro.blogspot.com/2008/11/proposition-hate.html\" rel=\"nofollow\">http://field-negro.blogspot.com/2008/11/proposi...</a><br><br>This post sounds like an imposter...and a TROLL.", "is_last_child": false, "can_reply": true, "down_voted": false, "real_date": "2008-11-11_16:05:03", "killed": false, "user_key": "CPL", "has_been_anonymized": false, "edited": false, "author_is_moderator": true, "from_request_user": false, "votable": true, "date": "1 year ago", "approved": true, "num_replies": 1, "is_first_child": false, "email": "", "parent_post_id": 3683613, "depth": 1, "points": 0, "author_is_creator": false, "is_realtime": false}, "3698260": {"up_voted": false, "ip": "", "has_replies": false, "message": "I respectfully disagree AllHeavens. My argument was a rebuttal to one put forth about the black church and which sought to scapegoat the black church and Christianity for the passing of Prop8.  Nothing in my argument addressed any oppression of any people.<br><br>I made no contention of any sort nor any presumption of moral authority, nor did the argument I put forth do so. Furthermore, no one was being stripped of any rights on the basis of religious law. That is an absurd contention on your part.<br><br>I frankly do not know how you jumped to the erroneous conclusion that religion is the cause of this legislation failing on my part given that I specified clearly I was not putting forth an argument on the basis of religion for opposing homosexual marriage. I also clearly stated I was not Christian as well.<br><br>What I did assert was that  the church was not a hypocrite when it came to homosexuality which was the core point that CPL made. I then supported that assertion with the tenets of Christianity to refute the fallacious sweeping stereotypes CPL made regarding Christianity.  <br><br>Unlike you, I see no rights being denied to anyone, nor has a case been presented on this thread that demonstrates such.<br><br>Let's be clear. There is no fundamental right to marry in the constitution. Nor is it discriminatory to preserve marriage for it's intended purpose. There is equality under the law as all are held to the  exact same standards. It is not in the interest of society to change the definition of marriage so that homosexuals can use the institution as it was never intended.<br><br>Separate but equal is a specious argument. Interracial marriage affirmed the primary purpose of marriage to provide a mother and father to potential kids. Gay marriage does not affirm children. It affirms individual sexual liberties. The institution of marriage as defined provides benefits precisely because it is a burden to the individual in terms of rearing children. Individuals who marry give up rights and liberties for the benefit of society.  The antithesis of the gay agenda.  <br><br>There is no compelling state interest for people to operate as pairs/couples. Equality means equating like things, and a man couple/woman couple is not like a man/woman couple. A mother is not a father and a father is not a mother.Your premise suggests that all personal relationships are of equal value to society and that the law should not favor one over another. This relies on the flawed reasoning that marriage is only a religious or romantic relationship and that there is no compelling reason for the state to value one over the other. This where you and I disagree.<br><br>It is important that we have laws that protect children against discrimination and that is a compelling interest of the state that supercedes any individual quest to utilize the institution of marriage for selfish sexual liberties. Laws exist to ensure justice and to encourage certain behaviors that contribute to the higher goals of societal well-being. For that reason the laws are not discriminatory to encourage one set of behaviors over others and those behaviors  to then be  favored in public policies. Doing such creates a well-ordered and civil society that is focus on the best interest of children and maximizing the potential of human development.<br><br>You may not like that society has the right to encourage specific behaviors for its overall good but that does not mean that anyone's individual rights have been violated or denied.<br><br>Brothers and sisters cannot marry either in this society.  Which underscores the point that individual sexual liberties are not and never have been the intent of the sanctioned rights within the institution of marriage as granted by law.<br><br>Homosexuals have failed to demonstrate that they are discriminated against or more importantly that they provide a societal benefit which warrants the benefits provided by public policy and laws as part of the institution of marriage<br><br>It doesn't have anything to do with religion disguised as legislative mandates and everything to do with a humane society putting the interest of children first, knowing how important it is to not deliberatively deny a child a mother or father simply because their are adults who chose to demand the institution of marriage change so that they can revel in their own sexual desires.<br><br>How can we not put children first?", "is_last_child": true, "can_reply": true, "down_voted": false, "real_date": "2008-11-12_01:11:26", "killed": false, "user_key": "bf592ce4366b6f179fe40d8422c998a5", "has_been_anonymized": false, "edited": false, "author_is_moderator": false, "from_request_user": null, "votable": true, "date": "1 year ago", "approved": true, "num_replies": 0, "is_first_child": false, "email": "", "parent_post_id": 3690704, "depth": 1, "points": 0, "author_is_creator": false, "is_realtime": false}, "3684951": {"up_voted": false, "ip": "", "has_replies": true, "message": "Nope. I am not Catholic and never have been. If you had actually studied any of these Christian tenants you espouse you'd notice the difference. The Old Testament applies a lot of Jewish laws. 632 to be exact. So when people like to pick certain chapters or verses for focus and skip the rest they are in fact in violation of them all. And the whole point behind denominations which means division by the way - is that different men decided they wanted the cafeteria plan and do what they wanted while skipping the rest. Why don't you call up some BIble scholars and go through it in Greek and Aramaic as well and put it in context to the time it was written. Or are you saying there's only one way to be a Christian with one set of 'rules' and everyone else is damned? If so what is this one all-encompassing Christianity you're referring to? Jesus was Jewish.", "is_last_child": false, "can_reply": true, "down_voted": false, "real_date": "2008-11-11_16:26:46", "killed": false, "user_key": "heartsandflowers", "has_been_anonymized": false, "edited": false, "author_is_moderator": false, "from_request_user": false, "votable": true, "date": "1 year ago", "approved": true, "num_replies": 1, "is_first_child": false, "email": "", "parent_post_id": 3684777, "depth": 11, "points": 0, "author_is_creator": false, "is_realtime": false}, "3685306": {"up_voted": false, "ip": "", "has_replies": false, "message": "Exaclty and that is why I broke from established religion.", "is_last_child": true, "can_reply": true, "down_voted": false, "real_date": "2008-11-11_16:51:22", "killed": false, "user_key": "Rhondacoca", "has_been_anonymized": false, "edited": false, "author_is_moderator": false, "from_request_user": false, "votable": true, "date": "1 year ago", "approved": true, "num_replies": 0, "is_first_child": false, "email": "", "parent_post_id": 3682010, "depth": 3, "points": 0, "author_is_creator": false, "is_realtime": false}, "3682398": {"up_voted": false, "ip": "", "has_replies": true, "message": "And they know damned well they showed no mercy when they killed the person they killed - and why should they be shown mercy when they've taken a life?<br><br>Yet when you stumble as a Christian, you're slung under the bus and condemned for not being a better \"Christian\".<br><br>WhiteRoseBuddy has caused me a great deal of pain with her comments and how she always targets me because of my screen name.  And I bet she feels justified in her comments, too.", "is_last_child": false, "can_reply": true, "down_voted": false, "real_date": "2008-11-11_13:54:58", "killed": false, "user_key": "CPL", "has_been_anonymized": false, "edited": false, "author_is_moderator": true, "from_request_user": false, "votable": true, "date": "1 year ago", "approved": true, "num_replies": 10, "is_first_child": false, "email": "", "parent_post_id": 3682284, "depth": 6, "points": 0, "author_is_creator": false, "is_realtime": false}, "3680351": {"up_voted": false, "ip": "", "has_replies": true, "message": "I completely agree with you. I was raised in the Catholic church and learned about the protestant denominations including black churches later in life.<br><br>The Catholic church is very vocal especially when it comes to aborton issues. I have always had a problem with that because they are not simply discussing whatever moral implications they are offended by. They are protesting outside of abortion clincs and funding anti-abortion groups and movements. <br><br>I completely agree with the whole tax exempt thing and I have been discussing this for a while.<br><br>I currenly reside in Brooklyn, I think Brooklyn takes the cake for the most churches. There is a church on every corner. This speaks to the power of the church in black communities regardless of if someone goes to church or not. The black church in Brooklyn is very involved in community affairs. I often attend Brown Memorial which holds political talks and talks about social issues. This is when everything gets touchy. The black church in these communities work as public space and fellowship. I worked with one of the churches in aiding and helping domestic violence and rap victims. 99% of black women do not report rape. That is scary.<br>I did not mind Jeremiah A. Wright or his church.<br><br>However, there are also the prosperity pimp preachers who are using certain wedge issues for political gain, money and influence.<br><br>I acknowledge that there is a difference.<br><br>I for one am Christian and independent thinking which is why have made a break from my previous church establishments. I cannot say that for everyone especially our black elders who are the most loyal voting block within the black community-the women in particular. <br><br>My great grandmother is 97 and she makes it to the polls for every election and primary. Meanwhile I am far more unreliable like most young people. When I voted in New York, I skipped over propositions and only voted on one elected office outside of the presidency. I am sure that my church going great grandmother voted down the line on every office and proposition. I feel that this is what played out in California. I have spoken to friends who were either confused about the prop. or just skipped over it along with the other elected offices and voted for Obama and left. These people can be influenced and they are open the GLBT community. I believe that the issue of same-sex marriage is more 50/50 in the black community. <br><br>Younger people are more independent in their thinking since we have such access to an abundance of information and diversity.<br><br>I cannot say that about my great-grandmother, aunts etc...who are ready to sign over there assets to the church. <br><br>As I keep saying, the church has become a force and the courts will have to simply step-in and do what they have to do in regards to enforcing the separation between church and state. They can remove some of the churches' tax exempt depending on the church. <br><br>But as I said, a separation between church and state goes both ways. The church needs to stay away from the state and the state, the church.", "is_last_child": false, "can_reply": true, "down_voted": false, "real_date": "2008-11-11_11:46:06", "killed": false, "user_key": "Rhondacoca", "has_been_anonymized": false, "edited": false, "author_is_moderator": false, "from_request_user": false, "votable": true, "date": "1 year ago", "approved": true, "num_replies": 2, "is_first_child": true, "email": "", "parent_post_id": 3679781, "depth": 1, "points": 0, "author_is_creator": false, "is_realtime": false}, "3684448": {"up_voted": false, "ip": "", "has_replies": false, "message": "No, Rorysmomma, your response was thoughtful and most of all, sensitive to where I am.  Thanks.", "is_last_child": false, "can_reply": true, "down_voted": false, "real_date": "2008-11-11_15:56:33", "killed": false, "user_key": "CPL", "has_been_anonymized": false, "edited": false, "author_is_moderator": true, "from_request_user": false, "votable": true, "date": "1 year ago", "approved": true, "num_replies": 0, "is_first_child": false, "email": "", "parent_post_id": 3684054, "depth": 7, "points": 0, "author_is_creator": false, "is_realtime": false}, "3698786": {"up_voted": false, "ip": "", "has_replies": false, "message": "Yes, that is what I said. Christians should hold other Christians accountable. CPL claimed Christianity as her faith.<br><br>No one is pushing a faith on CPL. she acknowledges she is Christian. And Corithin does instruct Chtistians to judge other Christians behaviors.<br><br>Which I noted as  judge the sin not the sinner or hate the sin not the sinner. So behaviors can be judged in Christianity and Christians are called to do so.<br><br>I agree that Christian tenets ask for deeds vs. words to demonstrate faith.<br><br>Is that not James..what good is faith without works?", "is_last_child": false, "can_reply": true, "down_voted": false, "real_date": "2008-11-12_02:25:39", "killed": false, "user_key": "bf592ce4366b6f179fe40d8422c998a5", "has_been_anonymized": false, "edited": false, "author_is_moderator": false, "from_request_user": null, "votable": true, "date": "1 year ago", "approved": true, "num_replies": 0, "is_first_child": false, "email": "", "parent_post_id": 3696106, "depth": 8, "points": 0, "author_is_creator": false, "is_realtime": false}, "3685475": {"up_voted": false, "ip": "", "has_replies": true, "message": "I am trying to see what your saying but no, its off base.<br><br>I believe that black sexuality is rigid but it is a result of white supremacy. Study black sexual politics and everything will make sense.", "is_last_child": false, "can_reply": true, "down_voted": false, "real_date": "2008-11-11_17:03:14", "killed": false, "user_key": "Rhondacoca", "has_been_anonymized": false, "edited": false, "author_is_moderator": false, "from_request_user": false, "votable": true, "date": "1 year ago", "approved": true, "num_replies": 1, "is_first_child": false, "email": "", "parent_post_id": 3682152, "depth": 4, "points": 0, "author_is_creator": false, "is_realtime": false}, "3698281": {"up_voted": false, "ip": "", "has_replies": false, "message": "Soceity did not grant the institution of marriage benefits to validate personal love relationships.<br><br>Marriage as an institution is a set of laws to benefit society, not the individual.<br><br>That is the biggest problem with the gay agenda. Marriage is not about individual rights as there is no such right granted in the constitution.", "is_last_child": false, "can_reply": true, "down_voted": false, "real_date": "2008-11-12_01:14:24", "killed": false, "user_key": "bf592ce4366b6f179fe40d8422c998a5", "has_been_anonymized": false, "edited": false, "author_is_moderator": false, "from_request_user": null, "votable": true, "date": "1 year ago", "approved": true, "num_replies": 0, "is_first_child": false, "email": "", "parent_post_id": 3694531, "depth": 2, "points": 0, "author_is_creator": false, "is_realtime": false}, "3698796": {"up_voted": false, "ip": "", "has_replies": false, "message": "God", "is_last_child": false, "can_reply": true, "down_voted": false, "real_date": "2008-11-12_02:27:18", "killed": false, "user_key": "bf592ce4366b6f179fe40d8422c998a5", "has_been_anonymized": false, "edited": false, "author_is_moderator": false, "from_request_user": null, "votable": true, "date": "1 year ago", "approved": true, "num_replies": 0, "is_first_child": false, "email": "", "parent_post_id": 3696117, "depth": 10, "points": 0, "author_is_creator": false, "is_realtime": false}, "3685490": {"up_voted": false, "ip": "", "has_replies": false, "message": "False. it is not MY opinion,...those are CHRISTIAN tenets.<br><br>Not opinions. Christian beliefs and tenets. Which you should know.<br><br>I have not ignored any rebuttal from you. You have simply stated you are entitled to your opinion without rebutting the CHRISTIAN tenets I asserted.<br><br>These are not MY positions they are the positions of CHRISTIANS who beleive in CHRISTIANITY.<br><br>I am not for the umpteenth time Christian.<br><br>I simply am the messenger here rebutting your false and flawed assertions.", "is_last_child": false, "can_reply": true, "down_voted": false, "real_date": "2008-11-11_17:04:10", "killed": false, "user_key": "bf592ce4366b6f179fe40d8422c998a5", "has_been_anonymized": false, "edited": false, "author_is_moderator": false, "from_request_user": null, "votable": true, "date": "1 year ago", "approved": true, "num_replies": 0, "is_first_child": false, "email": "", "parent_post_id": 3684724, "depth": 6, "points": 0, "author_is_creator": false, "is_realtime": false}, "3686003": {"up_voted": false, "ip": "", "has_replies": true, "message": "CPL,<br><br>  What if WRB was in fact a Christian?  Would that disqualify everything he/she said?  Everything WRB said about the Christian faith is correct, and I agree with WRB's description of your reasoning on this issue.  Jesus said, \"Why call ye me Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?\"  Luke 6:46.  Jesus also said that \"no man comes to the father, but by me.\"  Thus, there is no basis in the Bible for believing that every Christian can have their own interpretation of who God is and what he approves.  Christians believe that Jesus reveals to us the true nature of God the father, and that we are to repent of our sins.  <br><br>   It is true that we are not saved by our works alone, but if the spirit of Christ lives in us, we have the power to resist sin.  What is sin?  Sin is simply \"not doing something God's way.\"  (Pastor Otis Lockett, Greensboro, NC)  Thus, you can rationalize any type of sexual behavior as much as you like, but Christians believe that God has commanded sex to be performed between a man and a woman within the covenant of marriage, and all other types of sexual behavior are sins in the eyes of God simply because they are done in ways contrary to the way he has prescribed it to be done.  That makes sexual intercourse between a man and a woman who are not married a sin as well.  <br><br>   Please understand that WRB and I are not condemning you as a person, but we are condeming a belief that being true to Christian principles means that everything is acceptable unto God as long as it involves consenting adults and doesn't harm anyone.", "is_last_child": false, "can_reply": true, "down_voted": false, "real_date": "2008-11-11_17:37:48", "killed": false, "user_key": "jdickenslaw", "has_been_anonymized": false, "edited": false, "author_is_moderator": false, "from_request_user": false, "votable": true, "date": "1 year ago", "approved": true, "num_replies": 1, "is_first_child": false, "email": "", "parent_post_id": 3684497, "depth": 8, "points": 0, "author_is_creator": false, "is_realtime": false}, "3683446": {"up_voted": false, "ip": "", "has_replies": true, "message": "I dont think its cool for gay marriages.  It sends the wrong message to our youth.", "is_last_child": false, "can_reply": true, "down_voted": false, "real_date": "2008-11-11_14:53:23", "killed": false, "user_key": "ppplild", "has_been_anonymized": false, "edited": false, "author_is_moderator": false, "from_request_user": false, "votable": true, "date": "1 year ago", "approved": true, "num_replies": 9, "is_first_child": false, "email": "", "parent_post_id": null, "depth": 0, "points": 0, "author_is_creator": false, "is_realtime": false}, "3686505": {"up_voted": false, "ip": "", "has_replies": true, "message": "Separate but equal is a false statement to justify rights based on civil rights.<br><br>All single individuals in this society have the same rights. All married individuals in this society have the same rights.<br><br>There is no separate but equal.", "is_last_child": false, "can_reply": true, "down_voted": false, "real_date": "2008-11-11_18:09:40", "killed": false, "user_key": "bf592ce4366b6f179fe40d8422c998a5", "has_been_anonymized": false, "edited": false, "author_is_moderator": false, "from_request_user": null, "votable": true, "date": "1 year ago", "approved": true, "num_replies": 2, "is_first_child": false, "email": "", "parent_post_id": 3686055, "depth": 7, "points": 0, "author_is_creator": false, "is_realtime": false}, "3685501": {"up_voted": false, "ip": "", "has_replies": false, "message": "Yup.", "is_last_child": false, "can_reply": true, "down_voted": false, "real_date": "2008-11-11_17:04:48", "killed": false, "user_key": "Rhondacoca", "has_been_anonymized": false, "edited": false, "author_is_moderator": false, "from_request_user": false, "votable": true, "date": "1 year ago", "approved": true, "num_replies": 0, "is_first_child": false, "email": "", "parent_post_id": 3682215, "depth": 5, "points": 0, "author_is_creator": false, "is_realtime": false}, "3772032": {"up_voted": false, "ip": "", "has_replies": false, "message": "This bears repeating since some people insist on fighting the phantom menace and not the true opponent.<br><br>I am upset about this erroneous finger pointing at African-Americans regarding Proposition 8.  Why are you so quick to believe whatever you hear?  If someone told me 70 percent of gay people voted against Obama my first thought would be, I don't believe it!   This political year was fraught with right wing lies. These right wing religious extremists are trying to deflect their responsibility for Proposition 8 to Black people and Black churches.Bear that in mind.<br><br>\"Religious organizations that support Proposition 8 include the Roman Catholic Church], Knights of Columbus, Union of Orthodox Jewish Congregations of America, The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (Mormons) a group of Evangelical Christians led by Jim Garlow and Miles McPherson, American Family Association, Focus on the Family[and the National Organization for Marriage Rick Warren, pastor of Saddleback Church, California's largest, has also endorsed the measure. The Bishops of the California Catholic Conference released a statement supporting the proposition. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (Mormons) has publicly supported the proposition and encouraged their membership to support it, by asking its members to donate money and volunteer time. The First Presidency of the church announced its support for Proposition 8 in a letter read in every congregation. Latter-day Saints have provided a significant source for financial donations in support of the proposition, both inside and outside the State of California. About 45% of out-of-state contributions to Protect <a href=\"http://Marriage.com\" rel=\"nofollow\">Marriage.com</a> has come from Utah, over three times more than any other state\u2026 <br><br>Still, even though gays were fighting to preserve a basic right, it was the anti-equality side in California that seemed to have the most fervor. A symbolic low point for the gay side came on Oct. 13, when the Sacramento Bee ran a remarkable story about Rick and Pam Patterson, a Mormon couple of modest means - he drives a 10-year-old Honda Civic, she raises their five boys - who had withdrawn $50,000 from their savings account and given it to the pro-8 campaign. \"It was a decision we made very prayerfully,\" Pam Patterson, 48, told the Bee's Jennifer Garza. \"Was it an easy decision? No. But it was a clear decision, one that had so much potential to benefit our children and their children.\u201d<br><br>This is their  real enemy. Don't trust exit polls. I think they are pitting one group against the other. African-Americans are less than 7% of the state population, do the math.  Many more Whites voted and they put this over, not Blacks. What are the total numbers of each group that voted. Someone dug into the data and found that we're just now learning is that the exit poll was based on less than 2,300 people. If you take into account that blacks in California only make up about 6.2%, we get roughly 224 blacks who were polled. 224 blacks to blame an entire race! The truth is, I have heard that Prop 8 passed because of Republican support. 82% of Republicans admitted to supporting the proposition. They were not the ones who came out to vote for Obama. One blogger states that  If you look at all the data, you'll see numbers for first time voters. They rejected Prop 8 by a 62-38 margin. These first time voters were overwhelmingly for Obama, 83-17. Without Obama, Prop 8 would have passed by a much larger margin.<br><br>I know someone who watches C-Span and they said most Blacks did not even address the question at all. And they do not have the money to fund a tens of millions of dollars Proposition 8 campaign. Note that they also targeted affirmative action for eradication in another state.<br><br>Rather than be upset at the phantom African-American menace, fight like hell. I cannot believe that these larger groups who came out in droves to craft and fund this legislation  get a pass and Blacks are being targeted for the blame game. There is no right wing black conspiracy against gay Americans.  When you tried to align your struggle with that of Blacks you inherited their enemies. These same enemies are now trying to pit one against the other because they fear the combined numbers of both. Even if Blacks stayed home it would have passed because the extreme religious right and republicans would have raised the dead to get them to vote for it. They funded that campaign, not Blacks.<br><br>How many gay activists supported the civil rights movement in the 1960\u2019s?  Then how do you automatically expect support in return?  Have you asked Blacks to support you or did you just assume?<br><br>Fight this in the court of appeals and not the court of biased opinion by targeting Blacks for hatred and enmity.<br><br>The argument that this is analogous to slavery and the civil rights movement is insulting. Slavery renders people property without any rights. This is an argument for one with the others intact. If you are not married no one can whip you, sell your children, or work you to death. Please revisit your history books. And as for it being comparable to interracial marriage battles, again erroneous. Obama is biracial. So are the majority of African Americans, who do now wish to go into the sordid details of how that happened. He is not a rare bird to us. That is why we were so up in arms about miscegenation laws.  Forced sexual relationships were condoned and loving ones were not.  It was an affront and we wanted our women protected and respected.<br><br>Now let's all unite and fight this bigotry that the last 8 years has fostered and supported. It has placed a yoke around all our necks, Black and Gay.<br><br>Picket at the church headquarters because that is where this all started. And do so with respect and dignity like Gandhi and MLK.  I do not condone hate in any form but please recognize the difference between someone who does not agree with your lifestyle and someone who is actively seeking to deny you. Blacks are not actively working against you, that was the white church establishment with some black church support.  You know who these churches are. <br><br>Attack the weakest links and you gain nothing. Storm the bastions of power.", "is_last_child": false, "can_reply": true, "down_voted": false, "real_date": "2008-11-14_11:06:28", "killed": false, "user_key": "10fd37feaf723e302eecaaabe34f909d", "has_been_anonymized": false, "edited": false, "author_is_moderator": false, "from_request_user": null, "votable": true, "date": "1 year ago", "approved": true, "num_replies": 0, "is_first_child": false, "email": "", "parent_post_id": null, "depth": 0, "points": 0, "author_is_creator": false, "is_realtime": false}, "3684995": {"up_voted": false, "ip": "", "has_replies": false, "message": "thanks for the heads up, CPL", "is_last_child": false, "can_reply": true, "down_voted": false, "real_date": "2008-11-11_16:29:55", "killed": false, "user_key": "313c8f108b43104806fa6f1472af3f83", "has_been_anonymized": false, "edited": false, "author_is_moderator": false, "from_request_user": null, "votable": true, "date": "1 year ago", "approved": true, "num_replies": 0, "is_first_child": false, "email": "", "parent_post_id": 3684576, "depth": 5, "points": 0, "author_is_creator": false, "is_realtime": false}, "3686023": {"up_voted": false, "ip": "", "has_replies": true, "message": "<i>My specific quest in this instance was to cease the bashing of the black church due to some crazy homosexual agenda. </i><br><br>I'm not following the arguments on all this but this part of this comment strikes me as a particularly complex example of the escalating drama about victimhood that I mentioned in my long comment above.<br><br>The escalation would then call on the \"crazy homosexuals\" with an \"agenda\" (and or supporters of same) to say, NO! WE'RE THE VICTIMS!  etc etc And then someone like whiterosebuddy would argue NO YOU'RE NOT!  etc etc<br><br>and it goes on and on and on.<br><br>(still thinking about all this)", "is_last_child": false, "can_reply": true, "down_voted": false, "real_date": "2008-11-11_17:38:33", "killed": false, "user_key": "4ec3c0272b87ba5c8ce3a9168cf4e78a", "has_been_anonymized": false, "edited": false, "author_is_moderator": false, "from_request_user": null, "votable": true, "date": "1 year ago", "approved": true, "num_replies": 7, "is_first_child": false, "email": "", "parent_post_id": 3685836, "depth": 2, "points": 0, "author_is_creator": false, "is_realtime": false}, "3679880": {"up_voted": false, "ip": "", "has_replies": true, "message": "Oh, one more thing: I don't trust the courts because a lot of judges with religious wingnut values have been appointed to the Federal, State and District Court levels...all the way to the Supreme Court.  Scalia and Thomas were bad enough; now you have Roberts and Alito on the bench, where they have shown a willingness to ignore legal precedent in favor of legislating their personal religious beliefs.<br><br>They only say they're capable of separating their beliefs from legal application and they lie about that because if you read some of their judiciary decisions, especially on issues like gay rights, their opinions are laced with proseltyzation, platitudes and personal religious opinion, and are completely DEVOID of the actual, literal interpretation of the LAW.<br><br>Thank YOU, George Bush, for politicizing every damned thing you touched, including the COURT SYSTEM.<br><br>I absolutely hate feeling that I can't trust institutions that have worked for years the way the Founding Fathers intended until this fool stole two elections.", "is_last_child": false, "can_reply": true, "down_voted": false, "real_date": "2008-11-11_11:18:05", "killed": false, "user_key": "CPL", "has_been_anonymized": false, "edited": false, "author_is_moderator": true, "from_request_user": false, "votable": true, "date": "1 year ago", "approved": true, "num_replies": 1, "is_first_child": false, "email": "", "parent_post_id": null, "depth": 0, "points": 0, "author_is_creator": false, "is_realtime": false}, "3683948": {"up_voted": false, "ip": "", "has_replies": true, "message": "Deviant? Sounds hateful and homophobic to me. If you're worried about the preservation of the species, go out and do some work on global warming.", "is_last_child": false, "can_reply": true, "down_voted": false, "real_date": "2008-11-11_15:24:32", "killed": false, "user_key": "313c8f108b43104806fa6f1472af3f83", "has_been_anonymized": false, "edited": false, "author_is_moderator": false, "from_request_user": null, "votable": true, "date": "1 year ago", "approved": true, "num_replies": 3, "is_first_child": false, "email": "", "parent_post_id": 3683857, "depth": 3, "points": 0, "author_is_creator": false, "is_realtime": false}, "3685002": {"up_voted": false, "ip": "", "has_replies": true, "message": "while the discussion may have focused on the black church, my point is that the ISSUE can't be compartmentalised that easily.  this is a societal issue.  to my mind, there's nothing wrong with expanding the reach of the discussion ... taking it further.", "is_last_child": false, "can_reply": true, "down_voted": false, "real_date": "2008-11-11_16:30:22", "killed": false, "user_key": "99bcec632769e483ead5faa515e84132", "has_been_anonymized": false, "edited": false, "author_is_moderator": false, "from_request_user": null, "votable": true, "date": "1 year ago", "approved": true, "num_replies": 1, "is_first_child": false, "email": "", "parent_post_id": 3684719, "depth": 3, "points": 0, "author_is_creator": false, "is_realtime": false}, "3698316": {"up_voted": false, "ip": "", "has_replies": false, "message": "Yes, jdickenslaw. I did note that. I was uncertain whether folks were unable to rebut with a reasoned argument or if they chose not to engage...out of pain (sigh)<br><br>Thanks for the positive feedback.", "is_last_child": true, "can_reply": true, "down_voted": false, "real_date": "2008-11-12_01:18:41", "killed": false, "user_key": "bf592ce4366b6f179fe40d8422c998a5", "has_been_anonymized": false, "edited": false, "author_is_moderator": false, "from_request_user": null, "votable": true, "date": "1 year ago", "approved": true, "num_replies": 0, "is_first_child": false, "email": "", "parent_post_id": 3694754, "depth": 3, "points": 0, "author_is_creator": false, "is_realtime": false}, "3684497": {"up_voted": false, "ip": "", "has_replies": true, "message": "<i>I have not once stated I was a Christian. I simply understand Christian principles and there is no quest for being to be right in that regard.</i><br><br>You just disqualified yourself on all counts WRB.  This will be my last post on this matter.", "is_last_child": false, "can_reply": true, "down_voted": false, "real_date": "2008-11-11_15:58:59", "killed": false, "user_key": "CPL", "has_been_anonymized": false, "edited": false, "author_is_moderator": true, "from_request_user": false, "votable": true, "date": "1 year ago", "approved": true, "num_replies": 3, "is_first_child": false, "email": "", "parent_post_id": 3684055, "depth": 7, "points": 0, "author_is_creator": false, "is_realtime": false}, "3684498": {"up_voted": false, "ip": "", "has_replies": true, "message": "CPL<br>I am not seeking to change nor judge you. I was simply presenting a cogent argument to rebut the assertions you made about Christianity. I do believe you asserted you were Christian and that CPL stands for Christian Progressive Liberal?  <br><br>When someone says your reasoning is flawed it is not a judgment of you as an individual rather it is a factually based statement about the reasoning you posted.  Experential opinions  typically are full of flaws based on false premises due to the inherent limited data drawn  as generally that experience does not hold true universally.<br><br>  Which was my point to you. Your statements were not universally true with regard to the Christian faith. They were however your personal opinions. Great.<br><br>However, you were using a broad brush to negative paint the black church as well as Christians based on that experience.  Without, my even being a Christian it was easy to see how that was flawed reasoning...all you need to know are the core Christian tenets and your assertions do not hold true. They boil down to solely your experiences.  <br><br> Nor does it mean I am imposing my opinions rather it means you are unable to support your opinions, based on experienced when challenged with fact based statements.<br><br>Now, I am not sure why you think I am feeling some sense of entitlement other than to discuss an issue cogently.  I did not expect you to get all emotional. I rather thought from the postings that you do that you would present a rationally based rebuttal or argument that would support your opinions.  <br><br>I have no sense of entitlement other than what now seems to be  the crazy idea that this was a discussion board where everyone can present their views. I was hoping you had a reasoned rebuttal for your assertions.<br><br>Thanks for supporting my right to express opinions as I support your right not to rebut with a reasoned argument.   I would have thought you would have taken the opportunity to support your opinions when they were challenged.<br><br>I see now I was wrong and that you do not have a reasoned argument to present.<br><br>I am not telling you how to practice your faith. I only pointed out that your assertions are wholly inconsistent with the principles of the Christian faith. Nor am I telling you that you will not go to heaven. I am NOT judging you.  I simply pointed out that your reasoning was flawed.  Or didn't make sense when you know the tenets of the Christian faith.<br><br>God doesn't need my approval. But under the Christian faith, God made a covenant with people...that his son died for your sins, so you already have Gods blessing but in order to go to heaven you must adhere to the tenets set forth by his son CHRIST which is why they call it Christianity. <br><br>Those are not my beliefs. <br>Those are Christian beliefs.  <br><br>So stop being angry at me or saying I am hurting you cause I set forth in a logical manner the tenets of the Christian faith expecting you to rebut them  as I have no need to impose anything on you.<br><br>I just know that the convoluted reasoning you posted is not adherent to Christian principles.<br><br>I apologize if pointing that out created hurt or anger on your part.", "is_last_child": false, "can_reply": true, "down_voted": false, "real_date": "2008-11-11_15:59:00", "killed": false, "user_key": "bf592ce4366b6f179fe40d8422c998a5", "has_been_anonymized": false, "edited": false, "author_is_moderator": false, "from_request_user": null, "votable": true, "date": "1 year ago", "approved": true, "num_replies": 2, "is_first_child": false, "email": "", "parent_post_id": 3682102, "depth": 4, "points": 0, "author_is_creator": false, "is_realtime": false}, "3682973": {"up_voted": false, "ip": "", "has_replies": true, "message": "CPL the beauty of being a baptist is knowing that God has the final say.  It is not my place to admonish you.  It is also my place not to judge you.  I am not sure whether or not homosexuality is a choice, but I know that with the level of discrimination that gay people face, I would think that you wouldn't choose that particular lifestyle.  Don't feel that pain cpl.  You continue to pray and ask God for guidance, and we as christians must remember that we are not to lean on our own understanding.", "is_last_child": false, "can_reply": true, "down_voted": false, "real_date": "2008-11-11_14:25:59", "killed": false, "user_key": "rorysmomma", "has_been_anonymized": false, "edited": false, "author_is_moderator": false, "from_request_user": false, "votable": true, "date": "1 year ago", "approved": true, "num_replies": 13, "is_first_child": false, "email": "", "parent_post_id": 3682344, "depth": 4, "points": 0, "author_is_creator": false, "is_realtime": false}, "3694754": {"up_voted": false, "ip": "", "has_replies": true, "message": "Excellent response.  Have you noticed that no one can rebut anything you have said with a rational and logical response?  You have articulated the tenets of Christianity very well.  Since they cannot respond to your arguments, they want you to shut up.  I trust that you will ignore these comments, and realize that they have nothing left to throw at you.", "is_last_child": false, "can_reply": true, "down_voted": false, "real_date": "2008-11-11_19:41:20", "killed": false, "user_key": "jdickenslaw", "has_been_anonymized": false, "edited": false, "author_is_moderator": false, "from_request_user": false, "votable": true, "date": "1 year ago", "approved": true, "num_replies": 1, "is_first_child": false, "email": "", "parent_post_id": 3685836, "depth": 2, "points": 0, "author_is_creator": false, "is_realtime": false}, "3680419": {"up_voted": false, "ip": "", "has_replies": true, "message": "I completey agree with you, CPL and that is exactly what I went through before completely breaking with chrstian establishments.", "is_last_child": false, "can_reply": true, "down_voted": false, "real_date": "2008-11-11_11:51:00", "killed": false, "user_key": "Rhondacoca", "has_been_anonymized": false, "edited": false, "author_is_moderator": false, "from_request_user": false, "votable": true, "date": "1 year ago", "approved": true, "num_replies": 1, "is_first_child": false, "email": "", "parent_post_id": 3680044, "depth": 2, "points": 0, "author_is_creator": false, "is_realtime": false}, "3686055": {"up_voted": false, "ip": "", "has_replies": true, "message": "Will you speak to the issue of separate but equal?", "is_last_child": false, "can_reply": true, "down_voted": false, "real_date": "2008-11-11_17:40:19", "killed": false, "user_key": "evita", "has_been_anonymized": false, "edited": false, "author_is_moderator": false, "from_request_user": false, "votable": true, "date": "1 year ago", "approved": true, "num_replies": 3, "is_first_child": false, "email": "", "parent_post_id": 3685256, "depth": 6, "points": 0, "author_is_creator": false, "is_realtime": false}, "3686060": {"up_voted": false, "ip": "", "has_replies": false, "message": "Good points.", "is_last_child": true, "can_reply": true, "down_voted": false, "real_date": "2008-11-11_17:40:31", "killed": false, "user_key": "Lilytiger", "has_been_anonymized": false, "edited": false, "author_is_moderator": false, "from_request_user": false, "votable": true, "date": "1 year ago", "approved": true, "num_replies": 0, "is_first_child": false, "email": "", "parent_post_id": 3683671, "depth": 1, "points": 0, "author_is_creator": false, "is_realtime": false}, "3686150": {"up_voted": false, "ip": "", "has_replies": true, "message": "I think the survival of our species is under far more threat from other members of it than gay couples wanting to marry. <br><br><br>Not to imply that gays are not also involved in grinding mother earth into smithereens. Just that the actions of marrying isn't a part of it.<br><br>Heh", "is_last_child": false, "can_reply": true, "down_voted": false, "real_date": "2008-11-11_17:45:36", "killed": false, "user_key": "Lilytiger", "has_been_anonymized": false, "edited": false, "author_is_moderator": false, "from_request_user": false, "votable": true, "date": "1 year ago", "approved": true, "num_replies": 2, "is_first_child": false, "email": "", "parent_post_id": 3683857, "depth": 3, "points": 0, "author_is_creator": false, "is_realtime": false}, "3680440": {"up_voted": false, "ip": "", "has_replies": true, "message": "Evita...we do presently have civil unions for all people. 'Marriages 'are not recognized by the state without a license to do so.<br>Anyone can be married in a church with or without a license,.  It is only the license that makes it legal under the law.<br><br>Are you confusing the reality of what civil unions are?  <br><br>Marriage is a religious rite.  Ergo, you have the churches in volved for that very reason.<br><br>Anyone can go to the JOP and get a license and never step foot in a church and they are considered married UNDER STATE LAW not under   LAW of the CHURCH.", "is_last_child": false, "can_reply": true, "down_voted": false, "real_date": "2008-11-11_11:52:06", "killed": false, "user_key": "bf592ce4366b6f179fe40d8422c998a5", "has_been_anonymized": false, "edited": false, "author_is_moderator": false, "from_request_user": null, "votable": true, "date": "1 year ago", "approved": true, "num_replies": 12, "is_first_child": false, "email": "", "parent_post_id": 3678239, "depth": 1, "points": 0, "author_is_creator": false, "is_realtime": false}, "3684724": {"up_voted": false, "ip": "", "has_replies": true, "message": "And That's YOUR OPINION.<br><br>I HAVE PRESENTED A REBUTTAL TO YOUR POSITIONS. You choose to ignore them.", "is_last_child": false, "can_reply": true, "down_voted": false, "real_date": "2008-11-11_16:10:36", "killed": false, "user_key": "CPL", "has_been_anonymized": false, "edited": false, "author_is_moderator": true, "from_request_user": false, "votable": true, "date": "1 year ago", "approved": true, "num_replies": 1, "is_first_child": false, "email": "", "parent_post_id": 3684498, "depth": 5, "points": 0, "author_is_creator": false, "is_realtime": false}, "3700414": {"up_voted": false, "ip": "", "has_replies": false, "message": "Like nonreplicating carbon life forms.<br><br>Gee, I have read all your posts in this thread and I think a bit of thinning of the herd isn't a bad thing. You intent is showing. It isn't that you have a different viewpoint, it is kind of the slimy way you post it. \"Deviant isn't hateful...\" <br><br>Yes it is when used with your tone.", "is_last_child": true, "can_reply": true, "down_voted": false, "real_date": "2008-11-12_04:07:40", "killed": false, "user_key": "Lilytiger", "has_been_anonymized": false, "edited": false, "author_is_moderator": false, "from_request_user": false, "votable": true, "date": "1 year ago", "approved": true, "num_replies": 0, "is_first_child": false, "email": "", "parent_post_id": 3698526, "depth": 5, "points": 0, "author_is_creator": false, "is_realtime": false}, "3677888": {"up_voted": false, "ip": "", "has_replies": true, "message": "When will black churches adopt your approach? I don't understand how it's possible to expect ~ justifiably ~ equal rights in terms of race while making discrimination against others based on sexual orientation a tenet of faith. Makes me crazy. Equal rights for all people. End of story. It's just not that hard. <br><br>Oh, and your Bible? It's <i>your</i> guiding force, it's personal. My \"Bible\" is the AA Big Book. It's personal. Someone else's bible might be the Koran and that is personal too. A big part of this fight is that we can't keep religion in its proper place in this society.", "is_last_child": false, "can_reply": true, "down_voted": false, "real_date": "2008-11-11_08:56:01", "killed": false, "user_key": "bigassbelle", "has_been_anonymized": false, "edited": false, "author_is_moderator": false, "from_request_user": false, "votable": true, "date": "1 year ago", "approved": true, "num_replies": 64, "is_first_child": false, "email": "", "parent_post_id": null, "depth": 0, "points": 0, "author_is_creator": false, "is_realtime": false}, "3686082": {"up_voted": false, "ip": "", "has_replies": false, "message": "Well, he misspelt his name for starters...", "is_last_child": false, "can_reply": true, "down_voted": false, "real_date": "2008-11-11_17:41:57", "killed": false, "user_key": "Lilytiger", "has_been_anonymized": false, "edited": false, "author_is_moderator": false, "from_request_user": false, "votable": true, "date": "1 year ago", "approved": true, "num_replies": 0, "is_first_child": false, "email": "", "parent_post_id": 3684621, "depth": 2, "points": 0, "author_is_creator": false, "is_realtime": false}, "3680968": {"up_voted": false, "ip": "", "has_replies": true, "message": "the rights afforded to same sex couples come through the legal term \"marriage.\" <br>marriage is a church \"rite\" that also happens to bestow legal \"rights.\" instead of saying they are \"married,\" i propose they use a different term civilly joined. there is not one gay person or ally fighting for the right to marry in a church that does not want them. it is the legal rights that are the issue and I say it is as simple as using a different language for all people- not just for gay people.<br><br>if there is a separation of church and state- then we need to separate language too.", "is_last_child": false, "can_reply": true, "down_voted": false, "real_date": "2008-11-11_12:28:28", "killed": false, "user_key": "evita", "has_been_anonymized": false, "edited": false, "author_is_moderator": false, "from_request_user": false, "votable": true, "date": "1 year ago", "approved": true, "num_replies": 9, "is_first_child": false, "email": "", "parent_post_id": 3680440, "depth": 2, "points": 0, "author_is_creator": false, "is_realtime": false}, "3690704": {"up_voted": false, "ip": "", "has_replies": true, "message": "whiterosebuddy stated:<br><br>My specific quest in this instance was to cease the bashing of the black church due to some crazy homosexual agenda. The civil rights movement nor the black church merits being diminished because folks want some rights based on what they do with their genitals.<br><br>There it is.<br><br>You have just diminished any argument you have represented with your opening statement. <br><br>I do equate the GLBT community\u2019s quest for marriage with the 400 year struggle of African Americans in this country. But that is my belief and I will not impose it on others. I simply do not wish to engage in any type of oppression Olympics because of the outcome of Prop 8. <br><br>However, by stating that we should not take to task the Black religious community \"because of some crazy homosexual agenda\" is utterly ridiculous. I was raised Southern Baptist by grandparents who went to church not just on Sunday but every day of their lives. I was raised to believe that the oppression of any people was unacceptable EVEN by the Church.<br><br>Whether you think sex is purely for procreation, whether you think marriage is between a man and a woman, whether you think homosexuality is a sin you do not have the presumed moral authority to legislate the stripping away of rights of others based on religious law.<br><br>Religiosity disguised as legislative mandates is a slippery slope that could come back to haunt the church and christians. The Bible has been used to perpetrate some of the most horrific acts in human history and some in the community have blithely ignored this.<br><br>You may not like what they do with their genitals but we must remain ever vigilant when the rights of others are denied. How can we not?", "is_last_child": false, "can_reply": true, "down_voted": false, "real_date": "2008-11-11_18:36:52", "killed": false, "user_key": "234324dd017e36ee7c0faf28f81e2182", "has_been_anonymized": false, "edited": false, "author_is_moderator": false, "from_request_user": null, "votable": true, "date": "1 year ago", "approved": true, "num_replies": 2, "is_first_child": false, "email": "", "parent_post_id": null, "depth": 0, "points": 0, "author_is_creator": false, "is_realtime": false}, "3683538": {"up_voted": false, "ip": "", "has_replies": true, "message": "Thanks, Rorysmomma.  That's exactly where I am in my faith and I choose to leave the final decision to God.<br><br>Which is something WRB chooses to either disregard in her quest to be \"right\" as a Christian.", "is_last_child": false, "can_reply": true, "down_voted": false, "real_date": "2008-11-11_14:58:45", "killed": false, "user_key": "CPL", "has_been_anonymized": false, "edited": false, "author_is_moderator": true, "from_request_user": false, "votable": true, "date": "1 year ago", "approved": true, "num_replies": 12, "is_first_child": false, "email": "", "parent_post_id": 3682973, "depth": 5, "points": 0, "author_is_creator": false, "is_realtime": false}, "3684054": {"up_voted": false, "ip": "", "has_replies": true, "message": "CPL i get on my soap box quite a bit about what is right and what is wrong, and I saw some of that in her response.  I am going to continue to pray that I am less judgemental.", "is_last_child": false, "can_reply": true, "down_voted": false, "real_date": "2008-11-11_15:30:38", "killed": false, "user_key": "rorysmomma", "has_been_anonymized": false, "edited": false, "author_is_moderator": false, "from_request_user": false, "votable": true, "date": "1 year ago", "approved": true, "num_replies": 1, "is_first_child": false, "email": "", "parent_post_id": 3683538, "depth": 6, "points": 0, "author_is_creator": false, "is_realtime": false}, "3684055": {"up_voted": false, "ip": "", "has_replies": true, "message": "CPL<br>I find it very disengenuous of you to hide behind some emotional argument while claiming that the church is hypocrital simply because the church adheres to the tenets of christianity.<br><br>I have not once stated I was a Christian. I simply understand Christian principles and there is no quest for being to be right in that regard.<br><br>What I was attempting to do was unravel your flawed reasons interwined with significant falsehoods when you focus on Christianity.<br><br>You choose to claim it is so emotionally upsetting that you can neither discuss the issue on the basis of Christianity nor factually in a rational manner.<br><br>Yet, you beleive you can strike out at me personally?  Please, your issues about the church and christianity have everything to do with you choosing to not adhere to those tenets while claiming to be a believer despite your sexual preferences taking precedence over your practicing and living daily like a Christian.<br><br>That is not about me being right. Rather, it is about you attempting to talk faith without walking in faith.<br><br>I do not need to admonish nor judge you..nor does the Christian faith discriminate against you.<br><br>I simply was pointing out that your actions and words are completely inconsistent...and it is very blatant.<br><br>You cannot unite with people of faith when you choose not to walk in faith. You cannot unite with people of faith by talking about faith as if Christianity has a problem when you are renouncing Christian principles while calling yourself a Christian.<br><br>Jews beleive in God and they are not Christian, so do Muslims believe in God and they are not Christian...so having a relationship with God is not Christianity...<br><br>It is when you abide by Christian tenets and principles and ask for redemption after repenting the sins defined under Christianity faith as sins that you are a Christian<br><br>So stop perpetrating and own up to the truth. It matters not to me how you live your life or what relationship you have with God.<br><br>I simply pointed out the cognitive dissonance you chose to post and how inherently false it was. Doesn't make you a bad person, just a person in denial.", "is_last_child": false, "can_reply": true, "down_voted": false, "real_date": "2008-11-11_15:30:41", "killed": false, "user_key": "bf592ce4366b6f179fe40d8422c998a5", "has_been_anonymized": false, "edited": false, "author_is_moderator": false, "from_request_user": null, "votable": true, "date": "1 year ago", "approved": true, "num_replies": 8, "is_first_child": false, "email": "", "parent_post_id": 3683538, "depth": 6, "points": 0, "author_is_creator": false, "is_realtime": false}, "3698392": {"up_voted": false, "ip": "", "has_replies": false, "message": "There you go again CPL misconstruing and taking statements out of context to twist them into the bizarre flawed premises you hold.<br><br>No one is beating up on gays. That type of emotionally and inflammatory language on your part is absurd. Either you have facts to rebut the argument or you don't. Your whinning  though is annoying and frankly juvenile.<br><br>I did not use a Bible to beat up on anyone. YOU sought to defame christianity because you have personal biases and issues about religion while claiming to be Christian.<br><br>You do not get to impose that personal distortion on others by spouting false statements about the church or Christianity.<br><br>And you attempt to have some moral authority by talking about accepting people unconditionally yet you are offended when I tell you that the black church does as well because that is a core principle of Christianity to welcome all sinners to worship in the church.<br><br>Somehow you twisted that to beating up on gays...<br><br>yes, God will be dealing with you soon.", "is_last_child": false, "can_reply": true, "down_voted": false, "real_date": "2008-11-12_01:26:59", "killed": false, "user_key": "bf592ce4366b6f179fe40d8422c998a5", "has_been_anonymized": false, "edited": false, "author_is_moderator": false, "from_request_user": null, "votable": true, "date": "1 year ago", "approved": true, "num_replies": 0, "is_first_child": false, "email": "", "parent_post_id": 3695542, "depth": 9, "points": 0, "author_is_creator": false, "is_realtime": false}, "3682010": {"up_voted": false, "ip": "", "has_replies": true, "message": "Wow that's when people start worshipping the idea of religion and specific church leaders and not God. It's men in charge and the women financially supporting the entire operation. That's not good esp when they've basically turned their brains off and given up all their decision making processes.", "is_last_child": false, "can_reply": true, "down_voted": false, "real_date": "2008-11-11_13:29:37", "killed": false, "user_key": "heartsandflowers", "has_been_anonymized": false, "edited": false, "author_is_moderator": false, "from_request_user": false, "votable": true, "date": "1 year ago", "approved": true, "num_replies": 1, "is_first_child": false, "email": "", "parent_post_id": 3680351, "depth": 2, "points": 0, "author_is_creator": false, "is_realtime": false}, "3683549": {"up_voted": false, "ip": "", "has_replies": false, "message": "just gotta say:  i am so THANKFUL my parents didn't raise us in the church!  organised religion is a hot mess.", "is_last_child": false, "can_reply": true, "down_voted": false, "real_date": "2008-11-11_14:59:19", "killed": false, "user_key": "99bcec632769e483ead5faa515e84132", "has_been_anonymized": false, "edited": false, "author_is_moderator": false, "from_request_user": null, "votable": true, "date": "1 year ago", "approved": true, "num_replies": 0, "is_first_child": false, "email": "", "parent_post_id": null, "depth": 0, "points": 0, "author_is_creator": false, "is_realtime": false}, "3684576": {"up_voted": false, "ip": "", "has_replies": true, "message": "Liza, you're wasting your breath.  Go read all the posts she's put to me, challenging my faith, while in the same breath, declaring she's not a Christian, but doing her damndest to sound like one.<br><br>When I told her that her comments created a good deal of pain for me, she merely upped the ante. It is very wearying.", "is_last_child": false, "can_reply": true, "down_voted": false, "real_date": "2008-11-11_16:02:23", "killed": false, "user_key": "CPL", "has_been_anonymized": false, "edited": false, "author_is_moderator": true, "from_request_user": false, "votable": true, "date": "1 year ago", "approved": true, "num_replies": 1, "is_first_child": false, "email": "", "parent_post_id": 3683948, "depth": 4, "points": 0, "author_is_creator": false, "is_realtime": false}, "3680997": {"up_voted": false, "ip": "", "has_replies": true, "message": "There is no scientific proof that demonstrates gay IS a choice. If there were a gay gene the genome project which was completed would have discovered that.<br><br>Human sexuality preferences occur on a spectrum just like most human behaviors.  <br><br>You ask when do people choose to be gay as if that is the choice. The choice is to act on the behavior.  We choose whether to kill, steal, lie, cheat and to have sex. We choose to do that. We know that is a choice because folks can be celibate, promiscuous and monogamous.  All of these are choices.  We are human beings and as such we are not compelled to act on impulses like animals.<br><br>Ergo, homosexuality is a choice. The individual chooses to engage in that sexual behavior.<br><br>Because sex is pleasurable indivdiuals can desire homosexuality once they are in the lingo of the streets 'turned out'.   You could like pie and not ever choose apple pie, but once someone force-fed you apple pie...you might find yourself seeking apple pie ever thereafter even though the initial exposure was mean and abusive.", "is_last_child": false, "can_reply": true, "down_voted": false, "real_date": "2008-11-11_12:30:47", "killed": false, "user_key": "bf592ce4366b6f179fe40d8422c998a5", "has_been_anonymized": false, "edited": false, "author_is_moderator": false, "from_request_user": null, "votable": true, "date": "1 year ago", "approved": true, "num_replies": 12, "is_first_child": false, "email": "", "parent_post_id": 3680789, "depth": 4, "points": 0, "author_is_creator": false, "is_realtime": false}, "3698898": {"up_voted": false, "ip": "", "has_replies": true, "message": "whiterosebuddy -- by my own assessment, I had a responsibility to call on you to be critically self-reflective and consider your function in the larger whole, and I did. How you respond to that is entirely your choice and your responsibility.<br><br>You know from prior discussions that you and I have some areas of agreement and some of deep disagreement on the issues you raise yet again. You know, or should know if you had been paying attention, that that I have publicly stated on this site that am not an advocate of the Marriage Equality Movement even though I am a lesbian. My reasons are complicated. This whole issue is complicated.<br><br>Your false oversimplified dichotomy of \"majority\" and \"minority\" (opposing) views erases the complexity and lived reality of what is under discussion here. Like much of your other writing on this topic in arguments about it, it obstructs real dialogue and real learning. Your response sacrifices some aspects of what is going on that I would prefer to retain. It is also another display of false/misleading victim-posturing.<br><br>I am not going to continue this discussion with you from here on. <br><br>If you have looked inside yourself in an honest way and by your own assessment, you have determined that you are acting correctly in what you are doing on this topic, that's on you -- how you assess your actions and act from there, how you engage here ... these things are your choice, and your responsibility.", "is_last_child": false, "can_reply": true, "down_voted": false, "real_date": "2008-11-12_02:44:51", "killed": false, "user_key": "4ec3c0272b87ba5c8ce3a9168cf4e78a", "has_been_anonymized": false, "edited": false, "author_is_moderator": false, "from_request_user": null, "votable": true, "date": "1 year ago", "approved": true, "num_replies": 3, "is_first_child": true, "email": "", "parent_post_id": 3698443, "depth": 1, "points": 0, "author_is_creator": false, "is_realtime": false}, "3699947": {"up_voted": false, "ip": "", "has_replies": false, "message": "Help me out Michelle.  <br><br>When you use words like \"collectively\" with regard to contributions on a thread  while questioning the  intent of arguments  posed;  it sets up a dichotomy of challenging dissent vs. collective whole.<br><br>If that was not your intent, it is unclear to me what you are driving at.<br><br>I do consider it real dialogue to raise opposing views. There are other topics where I have views in the majority.  The marriage issue for same gender is not one of them.  <br><br>I did recall you were not advocating for the MEM and I guess that is what has me flummoxed about the questions you are raising in terms of my contribution to the collective whole.<br><br>I consider my position on the issue as having been presented honestly and truthfully. I am not trying to strike out at anyone individually or generate anger or pain. Unfortunately, this topic has greater propensity for that  perception as individuals beleive that their personal anecdotes are emotional game changers that should supercede all logic when they aren't .<br><br>So again, I apologize for any hurt feelings as that was not my intent.<br><br> I had simply hoped to have a well thought out discusion on the issue which at is core is about societal rights vs. individual rights. A point which I think gets lost because people view marriage as an individual benefit when the institution exists for societal benefit.<br><br>There are lots of similarities to this in terms of public school funding. Where individuals want to receive tax credits to send their kids to private schools. They do not want to uphold the fundamental belief in public schools which were set up to benefit society and so all Americans could receive an education as that is existent to a democracy...not as a tax burden that individuals could opt out of it, if they had the money to send their kids elsewhere under the assertion of 'double taxation'', Public education benefits the whole and it's intent is for democracy to flourish not for the individual to simply be 'educated'<br><br>The claiming of  'double taxation' is analogous to gays claiming 'discrimination/separatebutequal' when the facts are they are choosing not to adhere to the policies and standards set up for the overall good of society and that then does not connote victimhood..it simply says that policies that benefit entire communities are not discriminatory vs. the pursuit of individual liberties.", "is_last_child": false, "can_reply": true, "down_voted": false, "real_date": "2008-11-12_03:21:11", "killed": false, "user_key": "bf592ce4366b6f179fe40d8422c998a5", "has_been_anonymized": false, "edited": false, "author_is_moderator": false, "from_request_user": null, "votable": true, "date": "1 year ago", "approved": true, "num_replies": 0, "is_first_child": false, "email": "", "parent_post_id": 3698898, "depth": 2, "points": 0, "author_is_creator": false, "is_realtime": false}, "3696850": {"up_voted": false, "ip": "", "has_replies": true, "message": "*Standing Ovation*<br><br>Very poignant note. I think that your observations truly touch on what the Obama campaign was able to do in terms of revolutionizing how <i>all</i> underdog social movements can function and be successful.<br><br>From what you're saying, it seems that there needs to be a transformation within the movement. Or for the more race/class inclusive voices in the movement to become the ones to set the agenda. Very good read, I appreciate your willingness to be open here on jjp, I feel like I am learning so much.", "is_last_child": false, "can_reply": true, "down_voted": false, "real_date": "2008-11-11_22:38:43", "killed": false, "user_key": "JunePearl", "has_been_anonymized": false, "edited": false, "author_is_moderator": false, "from_request_user": false, "votable": true, "date": "1 year ago", "approved": true, "num_replies": 2, "is_first_child": false, "email": "", "parent_post_id": 3685784, "depth": 1, "points": 0, "author_is_creator": false, "is_realtime": false}, "3681008": {"up_voted": false, "ip": "", "has_replies": false, "message": "except that all states except MA define marriage as between a man and woman- blurring the separation of church and state.", "is_last_child": false, "can_reply": true, "down_voted": false, "real_date": "2008-11-11_12:31:21", "killed": false, "user_key": "evita", "has_been_anonymized": false, "edited": false, "author_is_moderator": false, "from_request_user": false, "votable": true, "date": "1 year ago", "approved": true, "num_replies": 0, "is_first_child": false, "email": "", "parent_post_id": 3679794, "depth": 2, "points": 0, "author_is_creator": false, "is_realtime": false}, "3684635": {"up_voted": false, "ip": "", "has_replies": false, "message": "What you have expressed and used as truth is an expression heterosexism and homophobia regardless of your motives.<br><br>The policies around gay men and giving blood is not true. There is data to support to fact the fact that incidences of spreading of HIV is DOWN among gay men and UP in the African American community, especially among heterosexual Black women being. How would you feel if Black people were being blamed for the downfall of the human race? Based on your limited knowledge on the topic I suggest you stop trying to pose as an \"educated man\" since clearly that education hasn't helped you better understand the contemporary facts about HIV and AIDS.<br><br>I several friends who have adopted young people from the system and love their kids more than words can say. They have raised their kids, paid their taxes, lived within the letter of the law with each other for 22 years. The couple I spoke of is white and latino and together they raised 2 black boys that are not GREAT young men. How dare any person, including you, undermine this truth by your false accusations.<br><br>If gay men were allowed to marry back in your grand father's day, there might be more Black men alive today. Alive because they had the opportunity to have more positive role models. There might have been fewer people living in poverty with raising children they can't financially support, or being ushered into the system via orphanages etc.", "is_last_child": false, "can_reply": true, "down_voted": false, "real_date": "2008-11-11_16:05:27", "killed": false, "user_key": "evita", "has_been_anonymized": false, "edited": false, "author_is_moderator": false, "from_request_user": false, "votable": true, "date": "1 year ago", "approved": true, "num_replies": 0, "is_first_child": false, "email": "", "parent_post_id": 3683613, "depth": 1, "points": 0, "author_is_creator": false, "is_realtime": false}, "3698559": {"up_voted": false, "ip": "", "has_replies": false, "message": "Sorry Liza, but the word deviant is neither hateful nor homophobic.<br>It is a very precise description of  homosexual  behavior,<br>When a behavior or action is abnormal it is deviant.<br>Deviant from the norm.. <br><br>I could have used the term abnormal but it was not as precise<br><br>.Being precise is not hateful nor homophobic.<br><br>I am worried about children being raised in families where they have the opportunity to maximize their human potential.", "is_last_child": false, "can_reply": true, "down_voted": false, "real_date": "2008-11-12_01:51:18", "killed": false, "user_key": "bf592ce4366b6f179fe40d8422c998a5", "has_been_anonymized": false, "edited": false, "author_is_moderator": false, "from_request_user": null, "votable": true, "date": "1 year ago", "approved": true, "num_replies": 0, "is_first_child": false, "email": "", "parent_post_id": 3683948, "depth": 4, "points": 0, "author_is_creator": false, "is_realtime": false}, "3680509": {"up_voted": false, "ip": "", "has_replies": true, "message": "Rhondacoca, I think that the church ~ all of them ~ does much to encourage folks to believe that homosexuality is a choice. Every religious leader I listen to on radio or television insists that it is a choice.<br><br>I have yet to hear any single person, religious or otherwise, able to tell me when they <i>made the decision</i> to be straight. <br><br>Although I'm not black, I do understand very well the conservative and biblical nature of the black church. All I'm saying is that an effort could be made to change hearts and minds.<br><br>I don't understand why others should suffer because of the beliefs of religious people. <br><br>It's my hope that court action will be taken; you're right that it will take legislation to enforce the rights of individuals, just as with civil rights in the '60s.<br><br>CPL ~ I think that the 12 step experience opens mind and hearts to a degree, at least for many people. The thing that gets me, is that so many people are driven to some of the more judgmental, condemning churches under the lash of some personal agony or experience. To then buy into the hate propaganda promoted by so many churches just doesn't make sense to me. <br><br>My father-in-law, a rabid Baptist, used to say \"some of the sickest people in the world are sitting in the church pew come Sunday morning.\" Hate is a sickness. Although we disagreed on many things, I think he was right on this point, bless his heart.", "is_last_child": false, "can_reply": true, "down_voted": false, "real_date": "2008-11-11_11:57:23", "killed": false, "user_key": "bigassbelle", "has_been_anonymized": false, "edited": false, "author_is_moderator": false, "from_request_user": false, "votable": true, "date": "1 year ago", "approved": true, "num_replies": 27, "is_first_child": false, "email": "", "parent_post_id": 3678553, "depth": 2, "points": 0, "author_is_creator": false, "is_realtime": false}, "3685118": {"up_voted": false, "ip": "", "has_replies": true, "message": "I didn't condemn you. I made a factual statement. Believeing in God is not the same as Christianity.<br>Jews beleive in God also, they have a relationship with God, but they are not Christians.<br><br>You simply have a lot of emotion and far less rational reasoning around the issues of religion.  You get defensive and attempt to knock others for stating the truth.<br><br>What you also consistently do is misquote biblical principles, and Christian beliefs.  For instance this way you have, like many, to take the judge not lest ye be judged out of context.<br><br>This is the verse so many use to try to shame Christians for discerning poor behavior, ethics, morals, and values.<br><br>Christianity calls upon it's believers to judge. God, the one you have the relationship expects you to judge. In fact, he granted you free will so that you could judge.<br>His view is that you are not a good Christian unless you can judge and discern what to choose.<br><br>What you are calling judging is actually accountability. According to the Christian tenets and beliefs, christians are called to hold other christians accountable to adhering to the Christian faith.<br><br>What you have  tried to do is twist accountability into being judgemental as if someone is being derisive of you or demeaning you.<br><br>That is not what judge not lest you be judged means. It means do not hold a Christian accountable if you yourself are not accountable as a Christian. However, as a believer you are expected to hold other Christians accountable.<br><br> In 1Cor. 6:2-3 Jesus authorizes Christians to judge. Judge they must else they could not discern good from bad, proper from improper, righteousness from evil. But judge behavior,  not the individual; the deed  not the doer; the choice  not the chooser.<br><br> The individual/doer/chooser is accountable for his/her deed/choice, but judge the deed/choice in your judgment. . So while Christians must judge one's behavior they must  try to nurture the goodness in an individual: to separate the deed from the doer.<br><br>Recall, I said in my initial post...hate the sin not the sinner?<br><br><br><br>There is a difference between someone holding you accountable and expecting your actions to match what you claim are  your beliefs and someone trying to control you.<br><br>Sorta like the difference between surrender and defeat.<br><br>When you surrender unto God it does not mean you are defeated and unaccountable.<br><br>I just think you need to realize that you are hearing mercy<br>.<br>Mercy that knows you have twisted the Christian faith into some 'hateful' mindset and that it is not a universal truth at all what you state about the black church or many many many Christians. <br><br>And hopeful, you will not try to shame folks with that 'judge not less ye be judged' again either.<br><br>Christians that adhere to Christian beliefs would know these tenets.", "is_last_child": false, "can_reply": true, "down_voted": false, "real_date": "2008-11-11_16:38:06", "killed": false, "user_key": "bf592ce4366b6f179fe40d8422c998a5", "has_been_anonymized": false, "edited": false, "author_is_moderator": false, "from_request_user": null, "votable": true, "date": "1 year ago", "approved": true, "num_replies": 8, "is_first_child": false, "email": "", "parent_post_id": 3682206, "depth": 6, "points": 0, "author_is_creator": false, "is_realtime": false}, "3681030": {"up_voted": false, "ip": "", "has_replies": true, "message": "Having a relationship with God does not mean you are a Christian though.<br><br>Everyone can have a relationship with God, but to be a Christian you must adhere to the tenets of the Christian faith.", "is_last_child": false, "can_reply": true, "down_voted": false, "real_date": "2008-11-11_12:32:56", "killed": false, "user_key": "bf592ce4366b6f179fe40d8422c998a5", "has_been_anonymized": false, "edited": false, "author_is_moderator": false, "from_request_user": null, "votable": true, "date": "1 year ago", "approved": true, "num_replies": 10, "is_first_child": false, "email": "", "parent_post_id": 3680668, "depth": 4, "points": 0, "author_is_creator": false, "is_realtime": false}, "3698443": {"up_voted": false, "ip": "", "has_replies": true, "message": "Michelle, <br>You state:<br>\"I am speaking of the actual function of this individual's contribution in the larger whole here at JJP....snip<br>I have never before been able to name in words the harm of fundamentalism/ideologues (of all types, on all sides of the spectrum) until observing the dynamics of this election season. And I am still learning, as I said above.<br>I do know that a collective/contribution approach to discussion is somewhat (or more than somewhat) alien in the larger culture. And it is certainly somewhat opposed to some elements of online discussions -- which in many contexts are about individual self-expression and/or argument for the sake of argument, rather than real mutual learning and real collective-focused dialogue.\"<br><br>Michelle, do I need to have a larger role here, to present an opposing argument?  Your remarks above seem to say to me that my minority voice is not welcome if it is not contributing to the majority of collective voices at JJP..is that so?  Am I to beleive that the majority on this site support homosexual marriage and will not contend opposing views?   <br><br>All of which I find truly astonishing given all the verbage about 'oppresion' and discrimination of gays being tossed around.<br><br>Unbelievable.", "is_last_child": false, "can_reply": true, "down_voted": false, "real_date": "2008-11-12_01:33:45", "killed": false, "user_key": "bf592ce4366b6f179fe40d8422c998a5", "has_been_anonymized": false, "edited": false, "author_is_moderator": false, "from_request_user": null, "votable": true, "date": "1 year ago", "approved": true, "num_replies": 4, "is_first_child": false, "email": "", "parent_post_id": null, "depth": 0, "points": 0, "author_is_creator": false, "is_realtime": false}, "3685645": {"up_voted": false, "ip": "", "has_replies": true, "message": "I didn't ride roughshod over your opinions. I rebutted them and you were unable to support them. That's what happended.<br><br>I didn't assume you did not adhere to the tenets..you denounced Christianty yourself along with the black church and you took the 'judge not lest ye be judged' out of context.<br><br>I assumed nothing.<br>I respected you. You failed to respect yourself and present a cogent rational argument to support all that balderdash and hate you wrote about Christianity and the black church.<br><br>I don't have to be a Christian to stand up for the black church or Christianity.<br><br>I stand up for the truth.<br><br>I respect opinions that are honest, truthful or made in good faith.<br><br>Your dogged persistence and inability to acknowledge you were inaccurate and stereotyping the black church and christianity does not merit respect.<br><br>Only the truth does.<br><br>Again, I apologize for any hurt feelings or pain you may have...but you do not get to strike out at the black church or Christianity simply because you in pain, no more than you get to murder someone cause they made you anger.<br><br>I will pray for you to find peace with regards to your Christian beliefs and I will especially pray that you be granted clarity and discernment to reach inner peace from all your cognitive dissonance on religion.", "is_last_child": false, "can_reply": true, "down_voted": false, "real_date": "2008-11-11_17:14:31", "killed": false, "user_key": "bf592ce4366b6f179fe40d8422c998a5", "has_been_anonymized": false, "edited": false, "author_is_moderator": false, "from_request_user": null, "votable": true, "date": "1 year ago", "approved": true, "num_replies": 4, "is_first_child": false, "email": "", "parent_post_id": 3685238, "depth": 8, "points": 0, "author_is_creator": false, "is_realtime": false}, "3684629": {"up_voted": false, "ip": "", "has_replies": false, "message": "I do not 'target' you CPL.  I rebut your arguments. I expect you to respond with facts that support your views.<br><br>I am not here to show mercy, that is not my job...I am not judge and jury.<br><br>I am only a poster who knows when someone is posting a flawed argument based on false premises due to inherent biases of their personal experiences.<br><br>Now if it is not OK to do that.  I apologize.<br><br>I submit it is not OK to think you can go around posting false statements about the black church, religion or black people without a factual basis for it, EVEN IF you are black.", "is_last_child": false, "can_reply": true, "down_voted": false, "real_date": "2008-11-11_16:05:12", "killed": false, "user_key": "bf592ce4366b6f179fe40d8422c998a5", "has_been_anonymized": false, "edited": false, "author_is_moderator": false, "from_request_user": null, "votable": true, "date": "1 year ago", "approved": true, "num_replies": 0, "is_first_child": false, "email": "", "parent_post_id": 3682398, "depth": 7, "points": 0, "author_is_creator": false, "is_realtime": false}, "3683609": {"up_voted": false, "ip": "", "has_replies": false, "message": "Exactly, HeartsAndFlowers.  Who can live under such dogmatic application and not have any vestiges of life sucked out of them?<br><br>Everyone I've seen living this way are dry, rigid, unforgiving and there's no spirit to them.  They're DRY, and I have to get away from them with their laundry list of how to live as a Christian, but if they stray off the list, they are as merciless with themselves as they are with anyone else.", "is_last_child": false, "can_reply": true, "down_voted": false, "real_date": "2008-11-11_15:03:32", "killed": false, "user_key": "CPL", "has_been_anonymized": false, "edited": false, "author_is_moderator": true, "from_request_user": false, "votable": true, "date": "1 year ago", "approved": true, "num_replies": 0, "is_first_child": false, "email": "", "parent_post_id": 3683134, "depth": 10, "points": 0, "author_is_creator": false, "is_realtime": false}, "3680815": {"up_voted": false, "ip": "", "has_replies": true, "message": "CPL,<br>It is completely untrue that the church shows no mercy. The church and christian faith have specific tenets that more than show mercy. The tenets of christianity are that you love the sinner and hate the sin. Which means the church welcomes homosexuals into the church, just as they welcome prostitutes, drug addicts, alchoholics, rapists and murderers.  All of those sinners are welcome in the church.  However, the church says in order to adhere to the tenets of the christian faith you must repent your sins, ask for redemption and cease sinning.  None of this is a problem with most folks who choose the christian faith,  addicts, prostitutes, rapists, murderers...all understand that and they set out to redeem themselves in the eyes of Gods based on the christian principles.<br><br>Homosexuals do not.  Homosexuals want to insist that they can continue to live lives of sin and not repent nor seek redemption for their behavior.  Homosexuals want to insist that the church and christians accept their immoral behavior and that they are just like everyone else.  They are not. They are sinners under any faith you choose to name, whether it be jewish, muslim, christian, budhaism...etc.<br><br>The individuals who appear to see some hypocrisy in the churches role cannot themselves be believers in the christian faith but the rules are clear even to those who study the religion and don't practice it.<br><br>Repent, cease sinning and God will grant you redemption.<br><br>No other group of sinners demands that God grant them redemption as they continue to practice their sins.<br><br>Their may be those who fall off the wagon and can't remain sinless but they continue to strive towards a sinfree life as they seek redemption.<br><br>There IS MERCY from those 'walking in faith' and that mercy is express as REPENT first, CEASE sinning, and God shall grant you redemption.<br><br>People who adhere to christianity are NOT united in faith with folks who profess to be christians as they flaunt their sins daily and expect those Christians to make an exception for them to committ their sinful acts while claiming to be united in faith.<br><br>Dobson, LaHaye, and Long...are walking in faith...those who live in sin are not.", "is_last_child": false, "can_reply": true, "down_voted": false, "real_date": "2008-11-11_12:18:52", "killed": false, "user_key": "bf592ce4366b6f179fe40d8422c998a5", "has_been_anonymized": false, "edited": false, "author_is_moderator": false, "from_request_user": null, "votable": true, "date": "1 year ago", "approved": true, "num_replies": 26, "is_first_child": false, "email": "", "parent_post_id": 3680044, "depth": 2, "points": 0, "author_is_creator": false, "is_realtime": false}, "3683613": {"up_voted": false, "ip": "", "has_replies": true, "message": "I am an educated heterosexual black man who disagrees with gay marriage.  I don't hate gays people.  But ultimately the gay lifestyle is harmful to the larger society.  I am agnostic, so the bible has nothing to do with my disapproval.  Rather it's the natural order of things.  Things that remain within the natural order of things promote life.  Things outside of that kill.  Its that simple.  The HIV/AIDS rate amongst gays is higher for a reason.  Consider that people who admit to having male to male sexual intercourse are banned for life from giving blood.  If my great grandfather had married a man as opposed to marrying my great grandmother, there would be about 600 fewer human beings in existence today.  I am tolerant of people who chose to live the gay lifestyle.  But the fact is that it is a perversion and it is dangerous to the human race, and therefore should not be sanctioned by the government.", "is_last_child": false, "can_reply": true, "down_voted": false, "real_date": "2008-11-11_15:03:39", "killed": false, "user_key": "02e6f7d190369a18ffc997102fa133be", "has_been_anonymized": false, "edited": false, "author_is_moderator": false, "from_request_user": null, "votable": true, "date": "1 year ago", "approved": true, "num_replies": 5, "is_first_child": false, "email": "", "parent_post_id": null, "depth": 0, "points": 0, "author_is_creator": false, "is_realtime": false}, "3680544": {"up_voted": false, "ip": "", "has_replies": false, "message": "oh no shit. the bush legacy ~ expecially in the lower courts ~ will affect us for years to come.", "is_last_child": true, "can_reply": true, "down_voted": false, "real_date": "2008-11-11_11:59:41", "killed": false, "user_key": "bigassbelle", "has_been_anonymized": false, "edited": false, "author_is_moderator": false, "from_request_user": false, "votable": true, "date": "1 year ago", "approved": true, "num_replies": 0, "is_first_child": true, "email": "", "parent_post_id": 3679880, "depth": 1, "points": 0, "author_is_creator": false, "is_realtime": false}, "3685156": {"up_voted": false, "ip": "", "has_replies": false, "message": "I think we are saying the same thing. I did not mean you were Catholic...but rather that like you many Catholics are angry at God.", "is_last_child": false, "can_reply": true, "down_voted": false, "real_date": "2008-11-11_16:41:40", "killed": false, "user_key": "bf592ce4366b6f179fe40d8422c998a5", "has_been_anonymized": false, "edited": false, "author_is_moderator": false, "from_request_user": null, "votable": true, "date": "1 year ago", "approved": true, "num_replies": 0, "is_first_child": false, "email": "", "parent_post_id": 3684951, "depth": 12, "points": 0, "author_is_creator": false, "is_realtime": false}, "3695401": {"up_voted": false, "ip": "", "has_replies": false, "message": "so beautiful.  <br>loved essex with a passion.", "is_last_child": true, "can_reply": true, "down_voted": false, "real_date": "2008-11-11_20:29:52", "killed": false, "user_key": "99bcec632769e483ead5faa515e84132", "has_been_anonymized": false, "edited": false, "author_is_moderator": false, "from_request_user": null, "votable": true, "date": "1 year ago", "approved": true, "num_replies": 0, "is_first_child": true, "email": "", "parent_post_id": 3688889, "depth": 1, "points": 0, "author_is_creator": false, "is_realtime": false}, "3680044": {"up_voted": false, "ip": "", "has_replies": true, "message": "True, that, Belle.  My own experience has forced (cause I do the 12-step programs, too) me to define my OWN relationship with God as I understand who God is.  Since I was brought up in the Baptist Church (where you're pretty much taught that God is a \"getcha\" god), you either spend your whole life trying to adhere to a dogmatic application of Biblical scripture and hoping you don't stumble because if you do, the Church shows NO MERCY, even though the Bible admonishes us to gently restore people who stumble and not to gloat because the next person to stumble might be YOU.<br><br>I've had to take a hiatus because I didn't bottom out until I crashed under the weight of trying to live under serving a God who seemed to be Dogmatic in His approach.  I've spent my life waiting for the other shoe to drop and finding absolutely NO MERCY from those \"walking in the Faith\".  I had to learn that my understanding was unique to me and they pretty much denounced me because they were unwilling to accept that we may be united in faith; how we get there may take different paths.<br><br>That understanding has taught me to be tolerant of differences, and unconditionally accepting of others.  It is a lesson that religious leaders like James Dobson, Tim LaHaye, Eddie Long and others who purport to speak for entire Church communities, would do well to learn.", "is_last_child": false, "can_reply": true, "down_voted": false, "real_date": "2008-11-11_11:30:29", "killed": false, "user_key": "CPL", "has_been_anonymized": false, "edited": false, "author_is_moderator": true, "from_request_user": false, "votable": true, "date": "1 year ago", "approved": true, "num_replies": 29, "is_first_child": false, "email": "", "parent_post_id": 3677888, "depth": 1, "points": 0, "author_is_creator": false, "is_realtime": false}, "3695366": {"up_voted": false, "ip": "", "has_replies": true, "message": "Michelle,<br><br>    WRB stated quite clearly what the actual function of his response to CPL.  WRB stated that one purpose was to \"cease the bashing of the black church due to some crazy homosexual agenda.\"  Another function was to correctly point out that \"It is particularly unaccepted to equate sex with race in any context as being a defensible argument on the basis of equality or rights under the law. Behaviors are not immune to discriminate under the law in this society.\"  <br><br>  The actual function of WRB's posts is to infuse facts and rational, logical analysis to the discussion.  WRB correctly articulated the tenets of the Christian faith, WRB's actual function shows how the tenets Christianity can be defended both rationally and intellectually.  <br><br>   You seem to equate dealing in facts with fundamentalism and idealogy.  I find it interesting that no one can rebut WRB's arguments directly on its face, nor can anyone articulate why gays insist on the right to marry rather than the right to have all of the civil rights that accompany marriage through civil unions.  WRB states correctly that marriage is a spiritual matter; a covenant between a man and woman honored by God.  You don't need a marriage license to married in the Church, but you need a marriage license to be afforded the rights of marriage in civil society.  These rights can be given through civil unions and contracts.  Instead of responding to these specific questions, we get the responses like yours, CPL's and all heavens.  Now, you just want WRB to be quiet.  That's the pinnacle of intellectual thought.", "is_last_child": false, "can_reply": true, "down_voted": false, "real_date": "2008-11-11_20:26:08", "killed": false, "user_key": "jdickenslaw", "has_been_anonymized": false, "edited": false, "author_is_moderator": false, "from_request_user": false, "votable": true, "date": "1 year ago", "approved": true, "num_replies": 2, "is_first_child": false, "email": "", "parent_post_id": 3695058, "depth": 7, "points": 0, "author_is_creator": false, "is_realtime": false}, "3682102": {"up_voted": false, "ip": "", "has_replies": true, "message": "White Rose Buddy, if nothing else, you are Consistent.<br><br>However, you continue to prove my point.  I was speaking about my experience in my church, and with other churches I've attended, and here you come, flaming me for my own opinion based on my OWN EXPERIENCE.<br><br>First, you say you aren't a Christian - yet you're spouting Christian principles.<br><br>Second, you say my reasoning as a Christian is flawed - who are YOU to judge me?  I am expressing my opinion BASED ON MY EXPERIENCE.  And yet, just like other Christians, you feel the need to not only disagree with my experience and my opinion, you feel a sense of entitlement to call me out on it.  For you are demonstrating the very reason why the Church is losing members like me and people who have had similar experiences of being abused and controlled in the name of GOD - the number is GROWING.<br><br>I am not in the position of determining whether or not who are sinners.  Perhaps you can enlighten me, since it appears that God has given you the insight and why he chose YOU to present this insight to the rest of us.<br><br>You know what the beauty of discussion like this?  I will still support your right to engage in such discussion, and to have your opinion, even though I think it is dogmatic application in the most literal sense.<br><br>Dobson, LaHaye and Long might be walking in their faith; but their track record shows that anyone in their congregations who don't think the same way they do are systematically and summarily DRUMMED OUT.<br><br>I have not asked you to change your opinion; I've respected it.  But I resent your attempt to impose your opinions on ME because I have not asked for them.<br><br>And no, that does not make me less of a CHRISTIAN; although, to your way of thinking, you've probably passed judgement on me in that sense, TOO.<br><br>Fine, I agree to disagree with you on this issue - but I have to respectfully ask that you stop trying to impose your opinions upon me.  I ask because I've tried your way of worshipping and it does not work for me, because it causes people tremendous pain in the name of Jesus, and forces them to live under impossibly dogmatic principles that allow for no mercy if a person reveals their hummaness and falls SHORT.<br><br>I will seek God and my own relationship with God that works for me.  I don't care if you don't think it's Christian - you don't get to make the determination as to whether or not I go to Heaven or Hell.  In the End, it's God and God alone Who Makes that Decision, and I'm pretty sure He doesn't need Your Help to do so.", "is_last_child": false, "can_reply": true, "down_voted": false, "real_date": "2008-11-11_13:36:04", "killed": false, "user_key": "CPL", "has_been_anonymized": false, "edited": false, "author_is_moderator": true, "from_request_user": false, "votable": true, "date": "1 year ago", "approved": true, "num_replies": 5, "is_first_child": false, "email": "", "parent_post_id": 3680815, "depth": 3, "points": 0, "author_is_creator": false, "is_realtime": false}, "3682618": {"up_voted": false, "ip": "", "has_replies": true, "message": "I love you!<br><br>Don't be upset!  Be calm!", "is_last_child": false, "can_reply": true, "down_voted": false, "real_date": "2008-11-11_14:06:56", "killed": false, "user_key": "Justice58", "has_been_anonymized": false, "edited": false, "author_is_moderator": false, "from_request_user": false, "votable": true, "date": "1 year ago", "approved": true, "num_replies": 8, "is_first_child": false, "email": "", "parent_post_id": 3682398, "depth": 7, "points": 0, "author_is_creator": false, "is_realtime": false}, "3683134": {"up_voted": false, "ip": "", "has_replies": true, "message": "Many of us have had to reevaluate what we actually believe versus what we've been taught to believe. I think a total reassessment would do us all good! I used to be belong to a very rigid church that even told women to wear layered long clothes because men could be tempted. As if we were solely responsible for their choice because they were 'weaker'. Why should that have been my responsibility? I had to leave and thought I'd be struck by lightning or hit by a car die and go to hell. So obviously I was angry at \"God\" for years because who can live like that.", "is_last_child": false, "can_reply": true, "down_voted": false, "real_date": "2008-11-11_14:35:03", "killed": false, "user_key": "heartsandflowers", "has_been_anonymized": false, "edited": false, "author_is_moderator": false, "from_request_user": false, "votable": true, "date": "1 year ago", "approved": true, "num_replies": 4, "is_first_child": false, "email": "", "parent_post_id": 3682802, "depth": 9, "points": 0, "author_is_creator": false, "is_realtime": false}, "3681095": {"up_voted": false, "ip": "", "has_replies": false, "message": "I agree with your perspective in that what is next if the religious-morality policy take away the civil right to marry. For me, what is more troubling is that the Mormon church and its big wig donors funneled a lot of $ into the Yes on 8 campaign in CA. These are the same people who thought that Native Americans, blacks, and any other \"dark\" people carried the curse of Cain. They essentially run a theocracy in Utah and decided to run their game in Southern CA.", "is_last_child": false, "can_reply": true, "down_voted": false, "real_date": "2008-11-11_12:37:31", "killed": false, "user_key": "adriana01", "has_been_anonymized": false, "edited": false, "author_is_moderator": false, "from_request_user": false, "votable": true, "date": "1 year ago", "approved": true, "num_replies": 0, "is_first_child": false, "email": "", "parent_post_id": null, "depth": 0, "points": 0, "author_is_creator": false, "is_realtime": false}, "3681109": {"up_voted": false, "ip": "", "has_replies": true, "message": "Evita,<br>Marriage is a church rite that does NOT bestow any legal right.  It is a religious sanctioning of a couple under the eyes of their faith. There are no legal rights.  You do not need a civil license to marry in any church. You only need to have that minister/rabbi/father marry you in the eyes of the church.<br><br>If you want that religious rite called marriage recognize under the law you must pay for a civil license from the state which is called a marriage license.<br><br>I understand that it is the legal rights gay wants...those do not come through church nor the religious rite of marriage.<br><br>The church and state thus are completely separated.  Only thing is most folks do not understand that.<br><br>You can be married in the eyes of the law, you can be married in the eyes of the church or you can be both.  Most folks who are religious choose both.<br><br>Gays should be seeking civil unions and it is their confusion on what they are advocating for which has created the problems.", "is_last_child": false, "can_reply": true, "down_voted": false, "real_date": "2008-11-11_12:38:19", "killed": false, "user_key": "bf592ce4366b6f179fe40d8422c998a5", "has_been_anonymized": false, "edited": false, "author_is_moderator": false, "from_request_user": null, "votable": true, "date": "1 year ago", "approved": true, "num_replies": 8, "is_first_child": false, "email": "", "parent_post_id": 3680968, "depth": 3, "points": 0, "author_is_creator": false, "is_realtime": false}, "3683671": {"up_voted": false, "ip": "", "has_replies": true, "message": "Much of the desire to marry has to do with economics. Taxes and insurance are decided based on marriage. Or civil union. If we had a decent health care system and a fair tax structure, most people wouldn't care  about marriage. I want the government to tax me based on being a citizen, no breaks for being married, and to give me access to affordable health care because I am a resident. Period. <br><br>I civil unioned with my parter - same sex - so we could a better deal on insurance for our family, including two kids, and ditto for income taxes. It wasn't about ceremony, or committment or even, as KO suggested last night, Love. We loved each other as much before our ten minute civil union ceremony, and were as committed before any legal sanctions were in place. We didn't give a hoot that the kids were born out of wedlock, and it hasn't made a bit of difference in anyone's life.<br><br>We live in an unjust society. Marriage won't help solve the root problems. <br><br>But discrimination hurts all of us.", "is_last_child": false, "can_reply": true, "down_voted": false, "real_date": "2008-11-11_15:06:59", "killed": false, "user_key": "313c8f108b43104806fa6f1472af3f83", "has_been_anonymized": false, "edited": false, "author_is_moderator": false, "from_request_user": null, "votable": true, "date": "1 year ago", "approved": true, "num_replies": 2, "is_first_child": false, "email": "", "parent_post_id": null, "depth": 0, "points": 0, "author_is_creator": false, "is_realtime": false}, "3678553": {"up_voted": false, "ip": "", "has_replies": true, "message": "The issues is that this is a court issue. If you give it to the people, they will vote based on their personal beliefs and religion. Its that simple. The courts need to enforce the separation between church and state.<br><br>BigAssBelle,<br><br>I believe that I heard you say once on this blog before that you were not black. Mabye that explains why you fail to understand that the black church is conservative and biblical. There are some sectors that are social gospel who are not but the majority these days are. They do not see sexual orientation and race as the same thing because from the many that I have spoken to, there still seems to be an ignorance believing that sexual orientation is a choice while race is not.<br><br>Also, if there is a separation between church and state then that means that the church should be left alone. They should not have tp change because they are being demanded by the state and vice versa.<br><br>Lastly, most AA's do not align or understand the correlation between LGBT rights and Civil Rights. What has complicated it is what I have written above as well as the fact that the LGBT rights movement has become to narrow.", "is_last_child": false, "can_reply": true, "down_voted": false, "real_date": "2008-11-11_09:49:42", "killed": false, "user_key": "Rhondacoca", "has_been_anonymized": false, "edited": false, "author_is_moderator": false, "from_request_user": false, "votable": true, "date": "1 year ago", "approved": true, "num_replies": 28, "is_first_child": true, "email": "", "parent_post_id": 3677888, "depth": 1, "points": 0, "author_is_creator": false, "is_realtime": false}, "3680602": {"up_voted": false, "ip": "", "has_replies": false, "message": "Rhonda, I think more and more who think and feel similarly to us will be doing the same thing, if for nothing else, SURVIVAL.", "is_last_child": false, "can_reply": true, "down_voted": false, "real_date": "2008-11-11_12:04:01", "killed": false, "user_key": "CPL", "has_been_anonymized": false, "edited": false, "author_is_moderator": true, "from_request_user": false, "votable": true, "date": "1 year ago", "approved": true, "num_replies": 0, "is_first_child": false, "email": "", "parent_post_id": 3680419, "depth": 3, "points": 0, "author_is_creator": false, "is_realtime": false}, "3684700": {"up_voted": false, "ip": "", "has_replies": false, "message": "No crumbs for the troll . . .", "is_last_child": true, "can_reply": true, "down_voted": false, "real_date": "2008-11-11_16:09:06", "killed": false, "user_key": "bigassbelle", "has_been_anonymized": false, "edited": false, "author_is_moderator": false, "from_request_user": false, "votable": true, "date": "1 year ago", "approved": true, "num_replies": 0, "is_first_child": false, "email": "", "parent_post_id": 3683613, "depth": 1, "points": 0, "author_is_creator": false, "is_realtime": false}, "3698526": {"up_voted": false, "ip": "", "has_replies": true, "message": "Gays are not a threat to the preservation of the species. They are a deterrent to the preservation of the species.", "is_last_child": false, "can_reply": true, "down_voted": false, "real_date": "2008-11-12_01:45:38", "killed": false, "user_key": "bf592ce4366b6f179fe40d8422c998a5", "has_been_anonymized": false, "edited": false, "author_is_moderator": false, "from_request_user": null, "votable": true, "date": "1 year ago", "approved": true, "num_replies": 1, "is_first_child": false, "email": "", "parent_post_id": 3686150, "depth": 4, "points": 0, "author_is_creator": false, "is_realtime": false}, "3705695": {"up_voted": false, "ip": "", "has_replies": false, "message": "O what kindergarten games this post is....let's talk about the messenger yall. Let's seek to disparage and discredit them by making all types of false innuendos and malign their character. <br><br>Such grade school tactics are the hallmark that message is girded with unassailable substance and truth and no rational rebuttal can be marshalled to refute the logic and facts as stated.<br><br>Nice try Craig....did you throw sand at in the sandbox to get your way too?", "is_last_child": true, "can_reply": true, "down_voted": false, "real_date": "2008-11-12_12:42:00", "killed": false, "user_key": "bf592ce4366b6f179fe40d8422c998a5", "has_been_anonymized": false, "edited": false, "author_is_moderator": false, "from_request_user": null, "votable": true, "date": "1 year ago", "approved": true, "num_replies": 0, "is_first_child": false, "email": "", "parent_post_id": 3701319, "depth": 3, "points": 0, "author_is_creator": false, "is_realtime": false}, "3682152": {"up_voted": false, "ip": "", "has_replies": true, "message": "Perhaps the conversation could veer off to the side slightly and say it's also traditionally been the Black Community Standards for Being Black which depending on your family's class status as well tends to be very rigid. otherwise you wouldn't have poorer Blacks that equate a desire to learn and speak English properly as trying to act 'white'. There wouldn't be this worship of motherhood where some women will have numerous children without being married and choosing men who are not suitable.<br><br>An earlier comparison would be the fight between European countries. Catholic Spain against Protestant England and the use of religious dogma to disguise war. Or how about the demonization of Muslims and Arabs in the hijacking of oil and conflicts in Iraq and Iran.<br><br>Churches should pay taxes! The end. If the Mormons can cough up $20M for Prop 8 they should.", "is_last_child": false, "can_reply": true, "down_voted": false, "real_date": "2008-11-11_13:39:06", "killed": false, "user_key": "heartsandflowers", "has_been_anonymized": false, "edited": false, "author_is_moderator": false, "from_request_user": false, "votable": true, "date": "1 year ago", "approved": true, "num_replies": 2, "is_first_child": false, "email": "", "parent_post_id": 3680815, "depth": 3, "points": 0, "author_is_creator": false, "is_realtime": false}, "3684717": {"up_voted": false, "ip": "", "has_replies": false, "message": "Stop with these false statements. How many times do I have to say I am not some Christian judging you?<br><br>Your personal issues with religion have created a dysfunctional mindset when it comes to have a cogent and well reasoned discussion on the facts.  You just throw up anything like Rush Limbaugh to deflect from the truth.<br>You want to claim it is church that it is other Christians and you are blaming everyone and everything other than looking at how you have completely twisted the entire concept of the Christian faith.<br><br>This happens to individuals who are in such deep conflict about their own actions which are inconsistent with the beliefs of the Christian faith.<br><br>That is not me judging you. It is the tenets of the Christian faith that are not being adhered to which create your emotional angst and cognitive disssonance.<br><br>Not me.<br><br>I just happened to be the messenger this time.<br><br>It is the message you can't rebut. It is the message you have to focus on. It is the tenets of the faith you profess to beleive in that you have to focus on.<br><br>not me.<br><br>I just happened to say ...what?  You are not making sense.<br><br>and <br><br>Here's why.", "is_last_child": false, "can_reply": true, "down_voted": false, "real_date": "2008-11-11_16:10:16", "killed": false, "user_key": "bf592ce4366b6f179fe40d8422c998a5", "has_been_anonymized": false, "edited": false, "author_is_moderator": false, "from_request_user": null, "votable": true, "date": "1 year ago", "approved": true, "num_replies": 0, "is_first_child": false, "email": "", "parent_post_id": 3682802, "depth": 9, "points": 0, "author_is_creator": false, "is_realtime": false}, "3684719": {"up_voted": false, "ip": "", "has_replies": true, "message": "This discussion was . . . race specific.", "is_last_child": false, "can_reply": true, "down_voted": false, "real_date": "2008-11-11_16:10:27", "killed": false, "user_key": "bigassbelle", "has_been_anonymized": false, "edited": false, "author_is_moderator": false, "from_request_user": false, "votable": true, "date": "1 year ago", "approved": true, "num_replies": 2, "is_first_child": false, "email": "", "parent_post_id": 3682740, "depth": 2, "points": 0, "author_is_creator": false, "is_realtime": false}, "3685744": {"up_voted": false, "ip": "", "has_replies": false, "message": "Re-read your post and ask how you would feel if the shoe were on the other foot.", "is_last_child": false, "can_reply": true, "down_voted": false, "real_date": "2008-11-11_17:21:23", "killed": false, "user_key": "CPL", "has_been_anonymized": false, "edited": false, "author_is_moderator": true, "from_request_user": false, "votable": true, "date": "1 year ago", "approved": true, "num_replies": 0, "is_first_child": false, "email": "", "parent_post_id": 3685406, "depth": 9, "points": 0, "author_is_creator": false, "is_realtime": false}, "3680628": {"up_voted": false, "ip": "", "has_replies": false, "message": "Bigs says :  I don't understand how it's possible to expect ~ justifiably ~ equal rights in terms of race while making discrimination against others based on sexual orientation a tenet of faith.<br><br>Faith is a religious belief with specific tenets independent of equal rights. Equal rights is not a religious tenet. Sexual orientation is a term that is based on the theory that there is some genetic basis for homosexual. That theory has never been proven. What we actually have is sexual preferences which are recognized as a behavior.<br><br>The church just like secular law can and does discriminate against behaviors deemed to be immoral or unproductive for society at large.  Without such laws society is uncivilized.<br><br>There is no contradiction in the moral basis of laws whtehter it is secular or religious when we focus on behaviors which will be acceptable.<br><br>Faith in fact encourages it's followers to implement laws and moral standards that live of to the creed of their fate.  None of this is discriminatory.<br><br>Race is not a behavior and as such is in no way analogous to sexual behavioral preferences. Racial equality is not behavioral.i.e. you need not behave in a specific manner in order to belong to a race.  <br><br>Behaviors are subject to discrimination in our society. There is no such thing as you can't criminalize disorderly conduct and justifiably have equality under the law on the basis of race. That would be an absurd corollary and society knows that. Neither can you say you can't discriminate against drunk drivers and justify racial equality. It is the equivalent of comparing apples and oranges.<br><br>Sex is a behavior and there are numerous laws on the books which 'discriminate' against acts of bestiality, incest, rape, prostitution, sodomy, etc.  Discriminating against these behaviors has nothing whatsoever to do with racial equality under the law and no one has to even consider justifying it.<br><br>Religion is in it's proper place. The problem here is that homosexuality serves no useful purpose in society.  Just as incest, rape, promiscuity, and prostitution do not.<br><br>The only sex that serves a useful role in society is reproductive...which is why the religion even opposes birth control.<br><br>Homosexuals have the job of convincing the larger society of the purpose of the benefit of their relationships to society at large.  They cannot do so.<br><br>Race has nothing to do with that.", "is_last_child": false, "can_reply": true, "down_voted": false, "real_date": "2008-11-11_12:05:39", "killed": false, "user_key": "bf592ce4366b6f179fe40d8422c998a5", "has_been_anonymized": false, "edited": false, "author_is_moderator": false, "from_request_user": null, "votable": true, "date": "1 year ago", "approved": true, "num_replies": 0, "is_first_child": false, "email": "", "parent_post_id": 3677888, "depth": 1, "points": 0, "author_is_creator": false, "is_realtime": false}, "3693886": {"up_voted": false, "ip": "", "has_replies": true, "message": "the civil right acts covered race, gender, class, religion- not sexual orientation.<br><br>it is perfectly legal to discriminate in employment based on sexual orientation in 30 states in the union! Hit HRC for maps of state rights.<br><a href=\"http://www.hrc.org/about_us/state_laws.asp\" rel=\"nofollow\">http://www.hrc.org/about_us/state_laws.asp</a><br><br>There are only 3 states that recognize civil unions (NJ, NH, and VT.)  And NJ is still trying to get entities within the state to uphold civil union rights. They are ALREADY finding loopholes to the term civil union.  Once again without the use of the word marriage gay men and women are denied 1,167 legal rights in our nation. They are the only group of Americans that can honestly say they do not experience \"equal protection under the law.\" <br><br>Separate but equal is a fair equivalence to this issue and speaks directly to your unproven assertions of the \"rights\" you say currently exists.<br><br>Once again, for the truth about the issues go to Human Rights Campaign that has a pretty comprehensive set of info, data, and legal findings.", "is_last_child": false, "can_reply": true, "down_voted": false, "real_date": "2008-11-11_19:04:27", "killed": false, "user_key": "evita", "has_been_anonymized": false, "edited": false, "author_is_moderator": false, "from_request_user": false, "votable": true, "date": "1 year ago", "approved": true, "num_replies": 1, "is_first_child": false, "email": "", "parent_post_id": 3686505, "depth": 8, "points": 0, "author_is_creator": false, "is_realtime": false}, "3685238": {"up_voted": false, "ip": "", "has_replies": true, "message": "And once again, you're assuming I don't adhere to these tenets.<br><br>And once again, I'm respectfully asking you to refrain from posting comments to me on this.<br><br>And once again, you ignore my requests, believing you have refuted my positions and yet saying you aren't judging me.  I would ask you to explain what you call it, but I'm no interested in discussing this issue with you anymore.  You don't respect a person's opinions and you ride roughshod over what is personal experiences because YOU don't agree with them.", "is_last_child": false, "can_reply": true, "down_voted": false, "real_date": "2008-11-11_16:47:21", "killed": false, "user_key": "CPL", "has_been_anonymized": false, "edited": false, "author_is_moderator": true, "from_request_user": false, "votable": true, "date": "1 year ago", "approved": true, "num_replies": 5, "is_first_child": false, "email": "", "parent_post_id": 3685118, "depth": 7, "points": 0, "author_is_creator": false, "is_realtime": false}, "3694569": {"up_voted": false, "ip": "", "has_replies": false, "message": "Please stop making sense.", "is_last_child": false, "can_reply": true, "down_voted": false, "real_date": "2008-11-11_19:26:26", "killed": false, "user_key": "CraigHickman", "has_been_anonymized": false, "edited": false, "author_is_moderator": false, "from_request_user": false, "votable": true, "date": "1 year ago", "approved": true, "num_replies": 0, "is_first_child": true, "email": "", "parent_post_id": 3690704, "depth": 1, "points": 0, "author_is_creator": false, "is_realtime": false}, "3695487": {"up_voted": false, "ip": "", "has_replies": false, "message": "You haven't, but she has.  And discounts herself bu arguing tenets that she doesn't believe in.<br><br>Logic as far as she's concerned.  I was sharing my opinion based on my experiences in the Black Church and she basically called me a liar.<br><br>How do I respond when the other individual wants to continue arguing, after I've asked her to stop?<br><br>I've been disrepected.  Period.  And that's all I'll say on the matter because you can spout all the religious tenets you want but it doesn't mean a damned thing if you're qualifiying these arguments by saying \"I'm not a Christian.\"", "is_last_child": false, "can_reply": true, "down_voted": false, "real_date": "2008-11-11_20:38:56", "killed": false, "user_key": "189cfefdc1b6f99ecf3ea93859ec6c73", "has_been_anonymized": false, "edited": false, "author_is_moderator": false, "from_request_user": null, "votable": true, "date": "1 year ago", "approved": true, "num_replies": 0, "is_first_child": false, "email": "", "parent_post_id": 3686003, "depth": 9, "points": 0, "author_is_creator": false, "is_realtime": false}, "3696005": {"up_voted": false, "ip": "", "has_replies": false, "message": "why does it matter, though. For Christians marriage is a partnership with your spouse and God. This is not validated or invalidated by actions of others. (this comment is not meant to proclude that gays cannot be Christians)<br><br>My beliefs as a Christian are separate from law. I just need the law to allow me to worship as I see fit, not have an abortion, or not engage in acts which I believe are sin. God has given us free will. Why should we dictate to others something that God has not dictated to us as Christians? On Judgement Day, we will all be called into account for our actions. So, why judge before then? \"Judge lest ye be judged.\"", "is_last_child": false, "can_reply": true, "down_voted": false, "real_date": "2008-11-11_21:29:05", "killed": false, "user_key": "JJai", "has_been_anonymized": false, "edited": false, "author_is_moderator": false, "from_request_user": false, "votable": true, "date": "1 year ago", "approved": true, "num_replies": 0, "is_first_child": false, "email": "", "parent_post_id": 3685256, "depth": 6, "points": 0, "author_is_creator": false, "is_realtime": false}, "3685256": {"up_voted": false, "ip": "", "has_replies": true, "message": "No,I was not missing that point of who can and cannot get a marriage license.  I was simply advocating for civil unions vs. marriage.", "is_last_child": false, "can_reply": true, "down_voted": false, "real_date": "2008-11-11_16:48:37", "killed": false, "user_key": "bf592ce4366b6f179fe40d8422c998a5", "has_been_anonymized": false, "edited": false, "author_is_moderator": false, "from_request_user": null, "votable": true, "date": "1 year ago", "approved": true, "num_replies": 5, "is_first_child": false, "email": "", "parent_post_id": 3684354, "depth": 5, "points": 0, "author_is_creator": false, "is_realtime": false}, "3683730": {"up_voted": false, "ip": "", "has_replies": false, "message": "You say you don't hate gay people, but your words are insulting and hateful. I have no interest in your tolerance. I just want my rights as a citizen thank you very much.", "is_last_child": false, "can_reply": true, "down_voted": false, "real_date": "2008-11-11_15:10:35", "killed": false, "user_key": "313c8f108b43104806fa6f1472af3f83", "has_been_anonymized": false, "edited": false, "author_is_moderator": false, "from_request_user": null, "votable": true, "date": "1 year ago", "approved": true, "num_replies": 0, "is_first_child": true, "email": "", "parent_post_id": 3683613, "depth": 1, "points": 0, "author_is_creator": false, "is_realtime": false}, "3685784": {"up_voted": false, "ip": "", "has_replies": true, "message": "<i>Longtime gay rights advocate Dean Trantalis of Fort Lauderdale, Fla., and others on the conference call expressed concern that the gay rights movement had become too focused on marriage, and is now paying the price in other more critical areas. \u201cMarriage was never our issue,\u201d Trantalis said. \u201cIt was thrust upon us by the other side, and they\u2019ve done a very good job of beating us up over it.\u201d</i><br><br>Well, seeing how incredibly intense some gay rights movement participants are about marriage as CRUCIAL GOAL, and how extremely nasty and ego-focused some of its proponents get when someone (like me, or Jasmynne Cannick or others) questions the orthodoxy of marriage being \"our\" central issue, I don't know if this is totally accurate. <br><br>Or, maybe it's just a matter of people getting caught up in the reaction. I don't know. But at this point I feel that the same-gender marriage proponents are likely to be every single bit as thoughtless and rigid and dogmatic as the anti-same-gender marriage people .... and I can't stand to talk to them at this point.<br><br>My position is that in these times, at this point, any movement that is rigid and dogmatic and ideological and essentially reactionary -- should fail. I know that's harsh. But that's how I feel things.<br><br>In my view, there are lessons, deep lessons, that movements can learn from what has happened in the election dynamics, from President-elect Obama and his approach. <br><br>I haven't learned everything I am going to learn from watching and reflecting on his approach and actions. Not yet, it goes too deep and I am still trying to understand all of it. But I do have some initial points of learning, and here they are:<br><br>1. Politics that base their call for change based on a person or group being victims of oppression are no longer particularly effective. The reason for this (or one of them) is that the other side, whatever it is, will immediately claim that THEY'RE the victim (see: Hillary Clinton and white feminists as only one example) and then it becomes a never-ending pointless argument and persistently escalating drama about who is oppressed by whom, and very little or nothing actually gets done to deal with the problems at hand. President-elect Obama was IMO very wise to essentially bypass this dynamic in his campaign.<br><br>2. Focus on the rights of particular groups (calling on those who are not members of that group to support them for moral reasons etc) may not be as effective as a more practical focus on how we are all part of a larger collective -- the nation -- with work to do and responsibilities to each other. I never ever thought such a collective focus would be possible in this country, since it is so firmly rooted in disconnected individualism. But President-elect Obama has demonstrated that this may be changing -- I think that social movements should consider what they can do to catch up to this development.<br><br>3. Ideology and ideologically-based approaches are poor guides for effective action toward change. Ideologically-based movements rely on the creation of a disconnected dramatic narrative, often \"us versus them\" and almost always oversimplifies actual reality. <br><br>The ideologically-based narrative often requires a move away from the grounded realities of our lives and history. This creates a situation where critical reflection and acknowledging that sometimes we are wrong becomes a threat to the movement, since it might expose the unreality of the narrative. <br><br>In contrast, President-elect Obama focused on the way that people's \"stories\" -- actually grounded in our real lives -- could function as a base for the goal of getting him elected. <br><br>4. Individual-based ego and identity is not necessary for motivation toward change. There was an excellent comment that has been posted twice now in open threads that quoted David Axelrod:<br><br><b>\"My fundamental concern for him wasn't whether he had the capacity, 'cause I think he's the smartest guy that I've ever worked with or known,\" [David] Axelrod said.<br><br>\"But it was whether he had that pathological drive to be president. You know, so often, what defines presidential candidates is this need to be president, to define themselves. He didn't have that. And, you know, we told him, 'You're gonna have to find some other way to motivate yourself.' And he did, which was what he could do as president.\"</b><br><br><a href=\"http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/11/07/60minutes/main4584507.shtml\" rel=\"nofollow\">Source</a><br><br>I was involved in various social movements for two decades, starting in the mid-1980s and ending about a year and a half ago. Over and over I saw that the ideological narrative often supported people in getting their ego and identity wrapped up in their motivation and work. This leads to a whole lot of defensiveness and drama when things get difficult (which they almost always do) and seriously obstructs clarity about goals and strategy and tactic, and is a barrier to success. Ego and identity as motivation is a huge barrier to the necessary discipline that change work requires.<br><br>I think that the Marriage Equality movement displays some of the worst traits of social movements as I mentioned them above (as well as persistent white supremacy and class privilege), and that it needs to be corrected -- either through a death-rebirth cycle, or through being allowed to die and having other LGBT movements emerge in its place as the center of the work.<br><br>And, I really think that careful attention to how President-elect Obama has conducted the work is a deep well of wisdom that has a lot of good information applicable to many movement contexts. <br><br>I am still learning so this is just where I am at with it right now.", "is_last_child": false, "can_reply": true, "down_voted": false, "real_date": "2008-11-11_17:24:10", "killed": false, "user_key": "4ec3c0272b87ba5c8ce3a9168cf4e78a", "has_been_anonymized": false, "edited": false, "author_is_moderator": false, "from_request_user": null, "votable": true, "date": "1 year ago", "approved": true, "num_replies": 10, "is_first_child": false, "email": "", "parent_post_id": null, "depth": 0, "points": 1, "author_is_creator": false, "is_realtime": false}, "3683737": {"up_voted": false, "ip": "", "has_replies": true, "message": "Homophobia sends the wrong message to our youth.", "is_last_child": false, "can_reply": true, "down_voted": false, "real_date": "2008-11-11_15:11:18", "killed": false, "user_key": "313c8f108b43104806fa6f1472af3f83", "has_been_anonymized": false, "edited": false, "author_is_moderator": false, "from_request_user": null, "votable": true, "date": "1 year ago", "approved": true, "num_replies": 8, "is_first_child": true, "email": "", "parent_post_id": 3683446, "depth": 1, "points": 0, "author_is_creator": false, "is_realtime": false}, "3685786": {"up_voted": false, "ip": "", "has_replies": false, "message": "Not agreeing with me doesn't make my assessment off base. I have studied the sexual politics of many cultures as well as the media influence on how Black women have been presented as the saffire/mammy/castrasting loudmouth. White supremacy can tell you one thing, it's up to you to believe it and adhere to it. Otherwise Black male comedians would not keep rehashing it for laughs and money at our expense. If a white racist tells you you're stupid are you going to believe them and repeat that lie to your offspring and base your entire existence on that? There is victimization going on for sure but there is also acceptance of victimhood. Not all people enslaved waited until they were granted 'freedom' to take it for themselves.", "is_last_child": false, "can_reply": true, "down_voted": false, "real_date": "2008-11-11_17:24:27", "killed": false, "user_key": "heartsandflowers", "has_been_anonymized": false, "edited": false, "author_is_moderator": false, "from_request_user": false, "votable": true, "date": "1 year ago", "approved": true, "num_replies": 0, "is_first_child": false, "email": "", "parent_post_id": 3685475, "depth": 5, "points": 0, "author_is_creator": false, "is_realtime": false}, "3680668": {"up_voted": false, "ip": "", "has_replies": true, "message": "Belle, my father came from a long line of preachers and used to say the same thing about the sickest people in the world sitting in the church pews on Sundays.<br><br>As I recall, he usually cried \"Bullshyt\" on all of it, and he was a believing Christian, who always told me to seek my own relationship with God and not to allow anyone else to define my relationship with God for me.<br><br>Now, I'm taking his advice, and I find myself more at peace with my decision to break away from old styles of worship because they just didn't work for me.", "is_last_child": false, "can_reply": true, "down_voted": false, "real_date": "2008-11-11_12:08:26", "killed": false, "user_key": "CPL", "has_been_anonymized": false, "edited": false, "author_is_moderator": true, "from_request_user": false, "votable": true, "date": "1 year ago", "approved": true, "num_replies": 11, "is_first_child": false, "email": "", "parent_post_id": 3680509, "depth": 3, "points": 0, "author_is_creator": false, "is_realtime": false}, "3685789": {"up_voted": false, "ip": "", "has_replies": false, "message": "That is how I see it. My godson is gay and he is 12. He has always been that way. The same thing goes for other members of my family who are homosexual or friends who are.", "is_last_child": false, "can_reply": true, "down_voted": false, "real_date": "2008-11-11_17:24:52", "killed": false, "user_key": "Rhondacoca", "has_been_anonymized": false, "edited": false, "author_is_moderator": false, "from_request_user": false, "votable": true, "date": "1 year ago", "approved": true, "num_replies": 0, "is_first_child": false, "email": "", "parent_post_id": 3680789, "depth": 4, "points": 0, "author_is_creator": false, "is_realtime": false}, "3682206": {"up_voted": false, "ip": "", "has_replies": true, "message": "You don't get to make that call, either, WhiteRose Buddy.<br><br>Has Jesus called on you to start condemning people outright?  How do you save souls when you're too busy condemning people because they don't think in lockstep with you?<br><br>How does it feel to pronounce yourself God Almighty?  Cause that's what you've just done by pronouncing me Not a Christian.<br><br>I don't know too many practicing Christians who are doing that because they have at least studied the Biblical scripture that clearly states,  \"Judge not, lest ye be judged with the same measure you have judged others.\"<br><br>Your lack of mercy indicates you will be judged the same way.  You have no right to tell me whether or not I am a Christian.  Ask your Pastor about THAT.", "is_last_child": false, "can_reply": true, "down_voted": false, "real_date": "2008-11-11_13:42:11", "killed": false, "user_key": "CPL", "has_been_anonymized": false, "edited": false, "author_is_moderator": true, "from_request_user": false, "votable": true, "date": "1 year ago", "approved": true, "num_replies": 9, "is_first_child": false, "email": "", "parent_post_id": 3681030, "depth": 5, "points": 0, "author_is_creator": false, "is_realtime": false}, "3682215": {"up_voted": false, "ip": "", "has_replies": true, "message": "I'm telling you if Jesus came back today he'd be clearing the temple of most of those church-hustlers and tell them he doesn't know them!", "is_last_child": false, "can_reply": true, "down_voted": false, "real_date": "2008-11-11_13:42:51", "killed": false, "user_key": "heartsandflowers", "has_been_anonymized": false, "edited": false, "author_is_moderator": false, "from_request_user": false, "votable": true, "date": "1 year ago", "approved": true, "num_replies": 1, "is_first_child": false, "email": "", "parent_post_id": 3682102, "depth": 4, "points": 0, "author_is_creator": false, "is_realtime": false}, "3684777": {"up_voted": false, "ip": "", "has_replies": true, "message": "What you are describing heartsandflowers is denominational tenets  vs. the christian tenets set forth in the bible.<br><br>You might want to look up a group call Bible Study Fellowship or BSF it is a national organization.<br><br>It focuses solely on the tenets of Christianity vs. denominational tenets.<br><br>You will probably find it uplifting as they teach you the bible not a specific denominational tenet.<br><br>There are many Catholics like you who have been angry with God until they studied the bible vs. catholicism.", "is_last_child": false, "can_reply": true, "down_voted": false, "real_date": "2008-11-11_16:14:39", "killed": false, "user_key": "bf592ce4366b6f179fe40d8422c998a5", "has_been_anonymized": false, "edited": false, "author_is_moderator": false, "from_request_user": null, "votable": true, "date": "1 year ago", "approved": true, "num_replies": 2, "is_first_child": false, "email": "", "parent_post_id": 3683134, "depth": 10, "points": 0, "author_is_creator": false, "is_realtime": false}, "3705501": {"up_voted": false, "ip": "", "has_replies": false, "message": "I don't see how keeping gays from being married detracts from the rights of society as a whole.  Procreation is not the main purpose of marriage historically.  Combining assests was also a purpose.  Economically, marriage is a benefit to society because it preserves familial wealth.  Also, gay people can have children as far as I know, the arguement that they cannot doesn't seem to be based on reality.  And no, I am not talking about adoption.  While I don't equate homosexual struggle for equality with black people per se, I do see that there are some of the same arguements being used to keep gays from marrying each other.  Ultimately, people who object and say that it will some how detract from society and \"threaten\" the children or marriage between a man and women are asking proponents to prove a negative.  In my view the opponents should really have to show a compelling interest in why they want to restrict it.  The catchphrases that they currently use seem to be coming directly from religion and I personally do not want that to be an influence on the constittution", "is_last_child": false, "can_reply": true, "down_voted": false, "real_date": "2008-11-12_12:28:57", "killed": false, "user_key": "f4c10ba059dc264745e675c992ae2fa5", "has_been_anonymized": false, "edited": false, "author_is_moderator": false, "from_request_user": null, "votable": true, "date": "1 year ago", "approved": true, "num_replies": 0, "is_first_child": false, "email": "", "parent_post_id": null, "depth": 0, "points": 0, "author_is_creator": false, "is_realtime": false}, "3680689": {"up_voted": false, "ip": "", "has_replies": true, "message": "Whiterosebuddy,<br><br>  I raised this very point in yesterday's thread that all of the civil rights of marriage could be accomplished under contract law through civil unions.  No one answered my question as to why they wanted the religious right to marry rather than the right to have all of the civil rights of marriage through civil unions.", "is_last_child": false, "can_reply": true, "down_voted": false, "real_date": "2008-11-11_12:10:03", "killed": false, "user_key": "jdickenslaw", "has_been_anonymized": false, "edited": false, "author_is_moderator": false, "from_request_user": false, "votable": true, "date": "1 year ago", "approved": true, "num_replies": 1, "is_first_child": false, "email": "", "parent_post_id": 3680440, "depth": 2, "points": 0, "author_is_creator": false, "is_realtime": false}, "3682740": {"up_voted": false, "ip": "", "has_replies": true, "message": "i voted against prop 8, but i resent your question.  when the hell will the WHITE church adopt this approach?  this issue is not race-specific.", "is_last_child": false, "can_reply": true, "down_voted": false, "real_date": "2008-11-11_14:11:46", "killed": false, "user_key": "99bcec632769e483ead5faa515e84132", "has_been_anonymized": false, "edited": false, "author_is_moderator": false, "from_request_user": null, "votable": true, "date": "1 year ago", "approved": true, "num_replies": 3, "is_first_child": false, "email": "", "parent_post_id": 3677888, "depth": 1, "points": 0, "author_is_creator": false, "is_realtime": false}, "3695542": {"up_voted": false, "ip": "", "has_replies": true, "message": "I'm sorry but if my unwillingness to beat up gay people disqualifies me from being a Christian, and according to you and WRB, it does, I guess God will be dealing with me soon.<br><br>I am not going to use a Bible to beat people into accepting something that they can't accept.<br><br>I guess I'm a heathen because I choose to unconditionally accept people regardless of who they are and be content to allow God to sort it out.<br><br>Good day to BOTH OF YOU.", "is_last_child": false, "can_reply": true, "down_voted": false, "real_date": "2008-11-11_20:43:42", "killed": false, "user_key": "189cfefdc1b6f99ecf3ea93859ec6c73", "has_been_anonymized": false, "edited": false, "author_is_moderator": false, "from_request_user": null, "votable": true, "date": "1 year ago", "approved": true, "num_replies": 1, "is_first_child": false, "email": "", "parent_post_id": 3695366, "depth": 8, "points": 0, "author_is_creator": false, "is_realtime": false}, "3685305": {"up_voted": false, "ip": "", "has_replies": true, "message": "whiterosebuddy stated: <br>Those are not my beliefs. <br>Those are Christian beliefs. <br><br>So, whiterosebuddy what is the payoff? What do you gain by pointing out everyone\u2019s flawed logic? By that I mean, any belief other than those supported by Christian tenets, i.e., those prescribed in the Bible?", "is_last_child": false, "can_reply": true, "down_voted": false, "real_date": "2008-11-11_16:51:17", "killed": false, "user_key": "234324dd017e36ee7c0faf28f81e2182", "has_been_anonymized": false, "edited": false, "author_is_moderator": false, "from_request_user": null, "votable": true, "date": "1 year ago", "approved": true, "num_replies": 11, "is_first_child": false, "email": "", "parent_post_id": null, "depth": 0, "points": 0, "author_is_creator": false, "is_realtime": false}, "3686330": {"up_voted": false, "ip": "", "has_replies": false, "message": "As long as you make false allegations about me personally....I will respond.<br><br>Once again, I need not be Christian nor practice the Christian faith to understand the religion or know its principles and tenets.  I used Christianity as the basis to rebut you as that is what YOU chose to attack.<br><br>I am not superior to you in any way. I simply happen to have a far greater understanding of the Christian religion because I studied it along with several others.<br><br>As a spiritual being having a human experience on earth I sought out answers to the meaning of life. One of the things I did was study religion. Particularly as it has such a profound impact on the black community. Yet there were so many incongruent things stated in church that I could not wrap my mind around. Thus my quest for understanding of my own spirit led me to study religion.<br><br>I believe in God, not religion. And there are those who say that God is an imaginary friend for adults.<br><br>It did not escape my notice that the MSM was scapegoating the black community for prop 8. I talked about why that was politically expedient in the first thread posted about that which you put up.<br><br>My responses confirm & assert the factual truths I know about homosexuals. Those fact based opinions have nothing to do with me being black and they certainly are not due to any Christian beliefs.<br><br>So their allegations are false. NOT VALIDATED nor CONFIRM by me or what you call my 'attitude\"  Even if you disagree with my 'attitude' That is what I was hoping you would see. The black church, black people nor black Christians are the problem here.<br><br>The problem is that homosexuality is incompatible with the goals of society and offers no benefit to family and community life.<br><br>Don't have a friggin thing to do with race or blacks and their religious beliefs.  Which was my main point.  I am black but I am not Christian and I would have voted YES on Prop 8 with a quickness.<br><br>Now, to quote you<br>RunTelDat", "is_last_child": false, "can_reply": true, "down_voted": false, "real_date": "2008-11-11_17:56:16", "killed": false, "user_key": "bf592ce4366b6f179fe40d8422c998a5", "has_been_anonymized": false, "edited": false, "author_is_moderator": false, "from_request_user": null, "votable": true, "date": "1 year ago", "approved": true, "num_replies": 0, "is_first_child": false, "email": "", "parent_post_id": 3685812, "depth": 10, "points": 0, "author_is_creator": false, "is_realtime": false}, "3714497": {"up_voted": false, "ip": "", "has_replies": false, "message": "Wow, thank you Jack. If what I say is of use, I am happy, whether or not it is attributed to me specifically.", "is_last_child": true, "can_reply": true, "down_voted": false, "real_date": "2008-11-12_14:07:12", "killed": false, "user_key": "4ec3c0272b87ba5c8ce3a9168cf4e78a", "has_been_anonymized": false, "edited": false, "author_is_moderator": false, "from_request_user": null, "votable": true, "date": "1 year ago", "approved": true, "num_replies": 0, "is_first_child": false, "email": "", "parent_post_id": 3705285, "depth": 2, "points": 0, "author_is_creator": false, "is_realtime": false}, "3685314": {"up_voted": false, "ip": "", "has_replies": false, "message": "But the focus was not societal ...the focus was on the black church.<br>Which is why I too challenged CPL about all those biased hateful statements and sweeping generalities she was making about Christianity!!<br><br>So, just who is doing the comparmentalization and who is asserting racial bias while using the black church as a justification to do so?<br><br>If bigbelle can't raise that point on the basis of race and the black church..CPL can't either in that context.<br><br>Bashing the black church and the Christian faith is out, regardless of what color you are.", "is_last_child": true, "can_reply": true, "down_voted": false, "real_date": "2008-11-11_16:51:55", "killed": false, "user_key": "bf592ce4366b6f179fe40d8422c998a5", "has_been_anonymized": false, "edited": false, "author_is_moderator": false, "from_request_user": null, "votable": true, "date": "1 year ago", "approved": true, "num_replies": 0, "is_first_child": false, "email": "", "parent_post_id": 3685002, "depth": 4, "points": 0, "author_is_creator": false, "is_realtime": false}, "3694531": {"up_voted": false, "ip": "", "has_replies": true, "message": "The ego is a big problem with social movements, but with the \"gay marriage movement\" in particular. When I hear my sisters and brothers say things such as, \"It feels like somebody just invalidated my love\" I have to wonder what their love is based on in the first place. Love doesn't need anybody's acceptance or approval.<br><br>I'm a firm believer that marriage is purely a spiritual thing. I understand civil rights and benefits and all of that, but at the end of the day, no one outside of your relationship can define it <i>for</i> you.<br><br>And I certainly take issue with those that believe that people in same-sex relationships don't contribute to family and society or have no role in the community of humankind. The whole of human history proves this patently false on its face.<br><br>I like the lessons you are learning from Barack's campaign. Something tells me I'm learning the same things, I just express it differently.<br><br>Thanks for your thoughts.", "is_last_child": false, "can_reply": true, "down_voted": false, "real_date": "2008-11-11_19:23:12", "killed": false, "user_key": "CraigHickman", "has_been_anonymized": false, "edited": false, "author_is_moderator": false, "from_request_user": false, "votable": true, "date": "1 year ago", "approved": true, "num_replies": 2, "is_first_child": false, "email": "", "parent_post_id": 3685784, "depth": 1, "points": 0, "author_is_creator": false, "is_realtime": false}, "3698628": {"up_voted": false, "ip": "", "has_replies": false, "message": "Separate equal is not a fair equivalence as it presumes that homosexuals are some specific subset of society on the scale of what human beings can do and they are not.<br><br>It is their behavior that separates them and that behavior is one which they decide to engage in not one which society says they cannot engage in or that society has criminalized.<br><br>What society says is that men and women can marry the opposite gender.  Everyone one is treated the same. Only homosexuals want to change those standards.   <br><br>Gay men and women can choose to abide by the law and the institution of marriage as set forth under the law. They are not denied that right. So, the law is not discriminatory. No individuals are being denied rights.<br><br>After all the rules even say if you are a man and woman and brother and sister or father and daughter you cannot marry either.<br><br>Those are the standards and rules that govern the institution of marriage in our society. There is no compelling state interest to change those rules such that same gender sex practioners can revel in their own sexual liberties.", "is_last_child": false, "can_reply": true, "down_voted": false, "real_date": "2008-11-12_02:01:59", "killed": false, "user_key": "bf592ce4366b6f179fe40d8422c998a5", "has_been_anonymized": false, "edited": false, "author_is_moderator": false, "from_request_user": null, "votable": true, "date": "1 year ago", "approved": true, "num_replies": 0, "is_first_child": false, "email": "", "parent_post_id": 3693886, "depth": 9, "points": 0, "author_is_creator": false, "is_realtime": false}, "3705285": {"up_voted": false, "ip": "", "has_replies": true, "message": "this is on point. i'm off to speak on News & Notes and will try to attribute some comments to you. thanks for being here.", "is_last_child": false, "can_reply": true, "down_voted": false, "real_date": "2008-11-12_12:13:52", "killed": false, "user_key": "baratunde", "has_been_anonymized": false, "edited": false, "author_is_moderator": true, "from_request_user": false, "votable": true, "date": "1 year ago", "approved": true, "num_replies": 1, "is_first_child": false, "email": "", "parent_post_id": 3685784, "depth": 1, "points": 0, "author_is_creator": true, "is_realtime": false}, "3685836": {"up_voted": false, "ip": "", "has_replies": true, "message": "My specific quest in this instance was to cease the bashing of the black church due to some crazy homosexual agenda. The civil rights movement nor the black church merits being diminished because folks want some rights based on what they do with their genitals.<br><br>The black church is an insitutition and it is the political foundation of our community. And the vast majority of blacks in this country are Christian so it is unacceptable to stereotype either negatively based on some individual experience.<br><br>It is particularly unaccepted to equate sex with race in any context as being a defensible argument on the basis of equality or rights under the law. Behaviors are not immune to discriminate under the law in this society. <br><br>I typically will discuss anything from a reasoned logically perspective because it is an opportunity to learn. I basically like engaging others and their ideas. I try not to get personal as that is very counterproductive and I  am really really really disdainful of emotional arguments that lack logic because folks take it personal.<br><br>This was not a biblical issue, but the assertions made by CPL warranted a biblically based and christian philosophy to rebut them as that was the center core of the flawed premise.", "is_last_child": false, "can_reply": true, "down_voted": false, "real_date": "2008-11-11_17:27:40", "killed": false, "user_key": "bf592ce4366b6f179fe40d8422c998a5", "has_been_anonymized": false, "edited": false, "author_is_moderator": false, "from_request_user": null, "votable": true, "date": "1 year ago", "approved": true, "num_replies": 10, "is_first_child": true, "email": "", "parent_post_id": 3685305, "depth": 1, "points": 0, "author_is_creator": false, "is_realtime": false}, "3685325": {"up_voted": false, "ip": "", "has_replies": true, "message": "<i>I have not once stated I was a Christian. I simply understand Christian principles and there is no quest for being to be right in that regard.</i><br><br>If you're not a Christian, how do you justify preaching their tenets to me or anyone else on this board?<br><br>Just answer that question, please.  Because you say you aren't a Christian.", "is_last_child": false, "can_reply": true, "down_voted": false, "real_date": "2008-11-11_16:52:58", "killed": false, "user_key": "CPL", "has_been_anonymized": false, "edited": false, "author_is_moderator": true, "from_request_user": false, "votable": true, "date": "1 year ago", "approved": true, "num_replies": 1, "is_first_child": false, "email": "", "parent_post_id": 3680815, "depth": 3, "points": 0, "author_is_creator": false, "is_realtime": false}, "3695058": {"up_voted": false, "ip": "", "has_replies": true, "message": "I am speaking of the <b>actual function</b> of this individual's contribution in the larger whole here at JJP.<br><br>However, I suspect that this way of looking at things is probably outside what you are accustomed to. Understandable, given how these things usually go.<br><br>I have never before been able to name in words the harm of fundamentalism/ideologues (of all types, on all sides of the spectrum) until observing the dynamics of this election season. And I am still learning, as I said above.<br><br>I do know that a collective/contribution approach to discussion is somewhat (or more than somewhat) alien in the larger culture. And it is certainly somewhat opposed to some elements of online discussions -- which in many contexts are about individual self-expression and/or argument for the sake of argument, rather than real mutual learning and real collective-focused dialogue.<br><br>So it makes sense to me that we disagree, jdickenslaw.", "is_last_child": false, "can_reply": true, "down_voted": false, "real_date": "2008-11-11_19:59:57", "killed": false, "user_key": "4ec3c0272b87ba5c8ce3a9168cf4e78a", "has_been_anonymized": false, "edited": false, "author_is_moderator": false, "from_request_user": null, "votable": true, "date": "1 year ago", "approved": true, "num_replies": 3, "is_first_child": false, "email": "", "parent_post_id": 3694645, "depth": 6, "points": 0, "author_is_creator": false, "is_realtime": false}, "3683799": {"up_voted": false, "ip": "", "has_replies": false, "message": "We also were lucky that we were legally allowed to cross adopt our children in NY so that both moms (the birth mom and the coparent) are the legal parents. That's another right that is imperative, but it came to us in NY in the nineties without the need for civil union or marriage - neither of which was available to us at the time.", "is_last_child": false, "can_reply": true, "down_voted": false, "real_date": "2008-11-11_15:14:37", "killed": false, "user_key": "313c8f108b43104806fa6f1472af3f83", "has_been_anonymized": false, "edited": false, "author_is_moderator": false, "from_request_user": null, "votable": true, "date": "1 year ago", "approved": true, "num_replies": 0, "is_first_child": true, "email": "", "parent_post_id": 3683671, "depth": 1, "points": 0, "author_is_creator": false, "is_realtime": false}, "3695068": {"up_voted": false, "ip": "", "has_replies": false, "message": "Thanks, Lilytiger. I am extremely extremely grateful that JJP is a context where I can post stuff like this.", "is_last_child": false, "can_reply": true, "down_voted": false, "real_date": "2008-11-11_20:01:03", "killed": false, "user_key": "4ec3c0272b87ba5c8ce3a9168cf4e78a", "has_been_anonymized": false, "edited": false, "author_is_moderator": false, "from_request_user": null, "votable": true, "date": "1 year ago", "approved": true, "num_replies": 0, "is_first_child": false, "email": "", "parent_post_id": 3685954, "depth": 2, "points": 0, "author_is_creator": false, "is_realtime": false}, "3687163": {"up_voted": false, "ip": "", "has_replies": true, "message": "I strongly suggest, whiterosebuddy, that you take a step back and do some ruthless self-reflection. Look carefully and without defensiveness at the <b>actual function</b> of your actions here at JJP when you write on this particular issue <br><br>In my observation, you are not functioning to the good of the larger whole in how you are engaging on this issue. <br><br>What I am saying here to you, whiterosebuddy, is not about right or wrong arguments, because in actual practice, that just leads into more drama and wasted energy. <br><br>What I am saying here to you is a call for you to be truly thoughtful and disciplined and self-conscious about how you are actually functioning as part of a larger thing than just YOUR self and YOUR ego and YOUR ideology. <br><br>It's about asking you to be ruthlessly honest with yourself about what your engagement on these issues is actually functioning to DO as part of the group.Calling on you to engage in careful scrutiny of whether or not you are making the best contributions to the larger whole at JJP in how you are engaging on this issue. Asking you to please consider how you might best use your energy to make the most positive contributions in the larger context of this site that you possibly can, and then act on that knowledge.<br><br>I am only going to make this call to you once, wrb. You can hear it or not. My responsibility, as I have assessed it, is to do this once.", "is_last_child": false, "can_reply": true, "down_voted": false, "real_date": "2008-11-11_18:17:26", "killed": false, "user_key": "4ec3c0272b87ba5c8ce3a9168cf4e78a", "has_been_anonymized": false, "edited": false, "author_is_moderator": false, "from_request_user": null, "votable": true, "date": "1 year ago", "approved": true, "num_replies": 5, "is_first_child": false, "email": "", "parent_post_id": 3686419, "depth": 4, "points": 0, "author_is_creator": false, "is_realtime": false}, "3714534": {"up_voted": false, "ip": "", "has_replies": true, "message": "Thank you so much JunePeral.  I am really grateful to be learning what I think I am learning (who knew I would ever learn lessons about social change from a Presidential candidate/President-elect? I never would have guess that would happen!) and very happy if it is use to others...", "is_last_child": false, "can_reply": true, "down_voted": false, "real_date": "2008-11-12_14:09:14", "killed": false, "user_key": "4ec3c0272b87ba5c8ce3a9168cf4e78a", "has_been_anonymized": false, "edited": false, "author_is_moderator": false, "from_request_user": null, "votable": true, "date": "1 year ago", "approved": true, "num_replies": 1, "is_first_child": false, "email": "", "parent_post_id": 3696850, "depth": 2, "points": 0, "author_is_creator": false, "is_realtime": false}, "3685353": {"up_voted": false, "ip": "", "has_replies": false, "message": "A person in denial is one who tries to live up to those tenets you preached about.", "is_last_child": false, "can_reply": true, "down_voted": false, "real_date": "2008-11-11_16:54:28", "killed": false, "user_key": "CPL", "has_been_anonymized": false, "edited": false, "author_is_moderator": true, "from_request_user": false, "votable": true, "date": "1 year ago", "approved": true, "num_replies": 0, "is_first_child": false, "email": "", "parent_post_id": 3684055, "depth": 7, "points": 0, "author_is_creator": false, "is_realtime": false}, "3696106": {"up_voted": false, "ip": "", "has_replies": true, "message": "sorry, WRB in Corinthians Paul is talking to the church at Corinth. He is saying they should call out other believers members of their church. The reasoning behind this is accountability among those who have made a committment to Christ. I can't recall a scripture which states instructs Christians to push their beliefs on others or judge them.<br><br>Our lives should be our testimony not necesarily our words.", "is_last_child": false, "can_reply": true, "down_voted": false, "real_date": "2008-11-11_21:36:29", "killed": false, "user_key": "JJai", "has_been_anonymized": false, "edited": false, "author_is_moderator": false, "from_request_user": false, "votable": true, "date": "1 year ago", "approved": true, "num_replies": 1, "is_first_child": false, "email": "", "parent_post_id": 3685118, "depth": 7, "points": 0, "author_is_creator": false, "is_realtime": false}, "3681191": {"up_voted": false, "ip": "", "has_replies": false, "message": "Most people are too emotionally caught up in what has now become an inflammatory word 'marriage'.<br><br>Gays want civil unions. Many are not informed as to that being the access to the numerous legal rights they claim to be pursuing.", "is_last_child": false, "can_reply": true, "down_voted": false, "real_date": "2008-11-11_12:43:00", "killed": false, "user_key": "bf592ce4366b6f179fe40d8422c998a5", "has_been_anonymized": false, "edited": false, "author_is_moderator": false, "from_request_user": null, "votable": true, "date": "1 year ago", "approved": true, "num_replies": 0, "is_first_child": false, "email": "", "parent_post_id": 3680689, "depth": 3, "points": 0, "author_is_creator": false, "is_realtime": false}, "3682284": {"up_voted": false, "ip": "", "has_replies": true, "message": "We choose whether to stand in judgement of others and declare ourselves better and more moral. We choose to be hateful and unyielding as well. We choose to be unmerciful - yet notice how when murdered are caught they beg for....you got it mercy...", "is_last_child": false, "can_reply": true, "down_voted": false, "real_date": "2008-11-11_13:46:58", "killed": false, "user_key": "heartsandflowers", "has_been_anonymized": false, "edited": false, "author_is_moderator": false, "from_request_user": false, "votable": true, "date": "1 year ago", "approved": true, "num_replies": 11, "is_first_child": false, "email": "", "parent_post_id": 3680997, "depth": 5, "points": 0, "author_is_creator": false, "is_realtime": false}, "3682802": {"up_voted": false, "ip": "", "has_replies": true, "message": "Thanks, Justice, for the virtual hug.<br><br>I will repeat this, Christians like WRB cause me so much pain, I had to leave the church I attended, because of the judgmentalism and lack of mercy.", "is_last_child": false, "can_reply": true, "down_voted": false, "real_date": "2008-11-11_14:15:12", "killed": false, "user_key": "CPL", "has_been_anonymized": false, "edited": false, "author_is_moderator": true, "from_request_user": false, "votable": true, "date": "1 year ago", "approved": true, "num_replies": 7, "is_first_child": false, "email": "", "parent_post_id": 3682618, "depth": 8, "points": 0, "author_is_creator": false, "is_realtime": false}, "3714547": {"up_voted": false, "ip": "", "has_replies": false, "message": "I meant JunePearl<br><br>Sorry for the typo.", "is_last_child": false, "can_reply": true, "down_voted": false, "real_date": "2008-11-12_14:10:02", "killed": false, "user_key": "4ec3c0272b87ba5c8ce3a9168cf4e78a", "has_been_anonymized": false, "edited": false, "author_is_moderator": false, "from_request_user": null, "votable": true, "date": "1 year ago", "approved": true, "num_replies": 0, "is_first_child": false, "email": "", "parent_post_id": 3714534, "depth": 3, "points": 0, "author_is_creator": false, "is_realtime": false}, "3685364": {"up_voted": false, "ip": "", "has_replies": false, "message": "Look, CPL...there are lots of religion classes.<br><br>Folks need not adhere to a faith to know what the tenets of a particular religion are.<br><br>What you should have recognized a long time ago, is that I studied relgion.", "is_last_child": false, "can_reply": true, "down_voted": false, "real_date": "2008-11-11_16:55:12", "killed": false, "user_key": "bf592ce4366b6f179fe40d8422c998a5", "has_been_anonymized": false, "edited": false, "author_is_moderator": false, "from_request_user": null, "votable": true, "date": "1 year ago", "approved": true, "num_replies": 0, "is_first_child": false, "email": "", "parent_post_id": 3684497, "depth": 8, "points": 0, "author_is_creator": false, "is_realtime": false}, "3696117": {"up_voted": false, "ip": "", "has_replies": true, "message": "who are you praying to?", "is_last_child": false, "can_reply": true, "down_voted": false, "real_date": "2008-11-11_21:37:19", "killed": false, "user_key": "JJai", "has_been_anonymized": false, "edited": false, "author_is_moderator": false, "from_request_user": false, "votable": true, "date": "1 year ago", "approved": true, "num_replies": 1, "is_first_child": false, "email": "", "parent_post_id": 3685645, "depth": 9, "points": 0, "author_is_creator": false, "is_realtime": false}, "3686229": {"up_voted": false, "ip": "", "has_replies": false, "message": "I didn't know it was that many rights.", "is_last_child": true, "can_reply": true, "down_voted": false, "real_date": "2008-11-11_17:49:09", "killed": false, "user_key": "Lilytiger", "has_been_anonymized": false, "edited": false, "author_is_moderator": false, "from_request_user": false, "votable": true, "date": "1 year ago", "approved": true, "num_replies": 0, "is_first_child": false, "email": "", "parent_post_id": 3684354, "depth": 5, "points": 0, "author_is_creator": false, "is_realtime": false}}, "integration": {"receiver_url": "", "theme": 4, "reply_position": true, "disqus_logo": false}, "timer": {"timer_url": "http://localhost:8005", "thread_id": "6896707", "user_id": "anonymous", "forum_id": "21630", "hash": -3934112992045824848}, "thread": {"days_alive": 0, "slug": "the_autopsy_on_why_proposition_8_passed_hint_black_people_didn8217t_help_kill_it", "paginate": false, "num_pages": 1, "num_posts": 146, "per_page": 0, "total_posts": 0, "realtime_paused": true, "id": 6896707, "queued": false}, "reactions_limit": 10, "context": {"show_reply": true, "use_fb_connect": true, "forum_facebook_key": "bd6a8bc56f8eb204984f34b6fefe228d", "use_yahoo": false, "subscribed": false, "use_twitter_signin": true, "use_openid": false, "realtime_speed": 5000}, "reactions_start": 0, "settings": {"debug": false, "disqus_url": "http://disqus.com", "media_url": "http://media.disqus.com"}, "media_url": "http://media.disqus.com"};
	/* */ this.jsonData.cookie_messages = {"user_created": null, "post_has_profile": null, "post_twitter": null, "post_not_approved": null}; this.jsonData.session = {"url": null, "name": null, "email": null}; /* */

	
	this.curPageId = 'dsq-comments';

	this.frames = {};
};

var disqus_popup_reference = null;

if(typeof DsqLocal == 'undefined') {
	DsqLocal = {};
}



/**
 * Dsq.Strings: UI strings
 */
Dsq.Strings = new function() {
	this.ADD_NEW_COMMENT = "Add New Comment";
	this.LOG_INTO_DISQUS = "Log into DISQUS";
	this.USE_MEDIA = "Use Media";
	this.LOGOUT = "Logout";
	this.SHARING_OPTIONS = "Sharing options";
	this.SHARE_ON = "Share on";
	this.TWEET_THIS_COMMENT = "Tweet this comment";
	this.SHARE_ON_NEWSFEED = "Share on news feed";
	this.SEND_UPDATE_TO_YAHOO = "Send update to Yahoo!";
	this.REBLOG_ON = "Reblog on";
	this.CONFIGURE_OPTIONS = "Configure options";
	this.POST_AS = "Post as";
	this.SORT_BY = "Sort by";
	this.SUBSCRIBE_BY_EMAIL = "Subscribe by email";
	this.SUBSCRIBE_BY_RSS = "Subscribe by RSS";
	this.POPULAR_NOW = "Popular now";
	this.BEST_RATING = "Best Rating";
	this.NEWEST_FIRST = "Newest first";
	this.OLDEST_FIRST = "Oldest first";
	this.HIGHLIGHTED = "Highlighted";
	this.UNSUBSCRIBE = "Unsubscribe";
	this.REQUIRED = "Required";
	this.OPTIONAL = "Optional";
	this.YOU_ARE_COMMENTING_AS_A = "You are commenting as a";
	this.LOGIN_BELOW = "Login below";
	this.PLEASE_LOGIN_BELOW_TO_COMMENT = "Please login below to comment.";
	this.SUBSCRIBE_TO_ALL_COMMENTS_BY_EMAIL = "Subscribe to all comments by email";
	this.DO_NOT_SUBSCRIBE_TO_COMMENTS = "Do not subscribe to comments";
	this.REALTIME_UPDATING_IS = "Real-time updating is";
	this.ENABLED = "enabled";
	this.PAUSED = "paused";
	this.PAUSE = "Pause";
	this.RESUME = "Resume";
	this.SHOW = "Show";
	this.JUST_NOW = "Just now";
	this.REPLY = "Reply";
	this.EDIT = "Edit";
	this.FLAG = "Flag";
	this.MODERATE = "Moderate";
	this.CANCEL = "Cancel";
	this.REPLYING_TO = "Replying to";
	this.REPORT_MISSING_REACTIONS = "Report missing reactions";
	this.POST_A_COMMENT = "Post a comment";
	this.FLAG_INAPPROPRIATE_COMMENT = "Flag inappropriate comment";
	this.FLAGGED = "Flagged";
	this.NO = "No";
	this.YES = "Yes";
	this.NEVER_MIND = "Never mind";
	this.ARE_YOU_SURE_YOU_WOULD_LIKE_TO_REPORT_THIS_COMMENT_TO_A_MODERATOR = "Are you sure you would like to report this comment to a moderator";
	this.THIS_WILL_FLAG_COMMENTS_FOR_MODERATORS_TO_TAKE_ACTION = "This will flag comments for moderators to take action";
	this.TO_RATE_PLEASE_LOG_IN = "To rate, please log in";
	this.JUST_A_MOMENT = "Just a moment...";
	this.GUEST = "Guest";
	this.NAME = "Name";
	this.EMAIL = "Email";
  this.WEBSITE = "Website";
  this.SETTINGS = "Settings";
  this.MODERATOR_OPTIONS = "Moderator options: ";
};
// Dsq.Strings

/**
 * Dsq.FmtStrings: functions that return interpolated UI strings
 */
Dsq.FmtStrings = new function() {
	// Seems we have to use named interpolation for Django to translate. Investigate more.
	this.LOGGED_IN_AS = function(username) {
		return Dsq.Utils.interpolate('Logged in as %(username)s', {username:username});
	};

	this.LOGOUT_FROM = function(disqus) {
		return Dsq.Utils.interpolate('Logout from %(disqus)s', {disqus:disqus});
	};

	this.SHOWING_COMMENTS_FULL = function(total, num) {
		if (num === 1) {
			return Dsq.Utils.interpolate("Showing <span id='dsq-num-posts'>%(num)s</span> of <span id='dsq-total-posts'>%(total)s</span> comment", {num:num, total:total});
		} else {
			return Dsq.Utils.interpolate("Showing <span id='dsq-num-posts'>%(num)s</span> of <span id='dsq-total-posts'>%(total)s</span> comments", {num:num, total:total});
		}
	};

	this.SHOWING_COMMENTS_WITHOUT_PAGINATION = function(num) {
		if (num === 1) {
			return Dsq.Utils.interpolate("Showing <span id='dsq-num-posts'>%(num)s</span> comment", {num:num});
		} else {
			return Dsq.Utils.interpolate("Showing <span id='dsq-num-posts'>%(num)s</span> comments", {num:num});
		}
	};

	this.NUMBER_OF_COMMENTS = function(num) {
		return Dsq.Utils.interpolate(
			(num == 1
				? '%(num)s comment'
				: '%(num)s comments'
			), {num:num});
	};

	this.NUMBER_OF_LIKES = function(num) {
		return Dsq.Utils.interpolate(
			(num == 1
				? '%(num)s like'
				: '%(num)s likes'
			), {num:num});
	};

	this.NUMBER_OF_POINTS = function(num) {
		return Dsq.Utils.interpolate(
			(num == 1
				? '%(num)s point'
				: '%(num)s points'
			), {num:num});
	};
};
// Dsq.FmtStrings





Dsq.CSRF_TOKEN = '3a1994e3330279e78957da82fb64f754';
Dsq.COMMENTS_RE = /(<li.*?id="?dsq-comment-(\d+)"?.*?>)((?:.|\s)*?)(<\/li>)/gim;
Dsq.POST_RE = /(<div.*?id="?dsq-comment-header-(\d+)"?.*?>)((?:.|\s)*?)(<\/div>)\s*(<div.*?class="?dsq-comment-body"?.*?>)((?:.|\s)*)(<\/div>)/gim;
Dsq.POST_BODY_RE = /\s*(<div.*?id="?dsq-comment-message-(\d+)"?.*?>)((?:.|\s)*)(<\/div>)/gim;
// HACK: Safari ends with "-->" while other browsers end with "--&gt;" as expected.
Dsq.MEDIA_POST_RE = /&lt;!--\[(.*?)\]--(?:>|&gt;)/gim;



var FragmentPacket = function(reader, writer, writer_url, is_child, receiveCallback) {
	var that = this;
	this.reader = reader;
	this.writer = writer;
	this.writer_url = writer_url;

	this.is_child = is_child || false;
	this.receiveCallback = receiveCallback;

	this._lastHash = null;

	this._accumMsg = '';

	this._lastSeqno = 0;

	this.MAX_DATA_LEN	= 1024;

	this.WAIT_TIME		= 10;

	this.READY		= 0x1;
	this.WRITING	= 0x2;
	this.FIN		= 0x4;
	this.ACK		= 0x8;

};

FragmentPacket.prototype.createListener = function() {
	var that = this;
	var listener = function() {
		that.recv();
	};
	return window.setInterval(listener, 10);
};

FragmentPacket.prototype.log = function(msg) {



};

FragmentPacket.prototype.recv = function() {
	var hash;
	if (/MSIE/.test(navigator.userAgent)) {

		hash = this.reader.name;
	} else {

		var hashIndex = this.reader.location.href.indexOf('#');
		if (hashIndex == -1) {
			return;
		}
		hash = this.reader.location.href.substring(hashIndex+1);
	}
	var flags = parseInt(hash.substring(0, 4), 10);
	var seqno = parseInt(hash.substring(4, 24), 10);
	var data  = hash.substring(24);

	if (this._lastHash !== hash) {
		this._lastHash = hash;
		this.log('recv: ' + hash);

		this.log(' flags: ' + flags);
		this.log(' seqno: ' + seqno + ' len: ' + hash.substring(4, 24).length + ' (' + hash.substring(4, 24) + ')');
		this.log(' data: ' + data + ' len: ' + data.length);

		this._lastSeqno = seqno;

		if (flags & this.WRITING) {
			this._accumMsg += data;
			this.sendFlag(this.ACK, seqno);
			if (flags & this.FIN) {
				this.log('recv finished: ' + decodeURIComponent(this._accumMsg));
				this.receiveCallback(decodeURIComponent(this._accumMsg));

				this._accumMsg = '';

				this.sendFlag(this.READY | this.ACK, this._lastSeqno);
			}
		}
	}

	return {
		flags: flags,
		seqno: seqno,
		data: data
	};
};

FragmentPacket.prototype.sendRawPacket = function(packet) {
	if (/MSIE/.test(navigator.userAgent)) {
		this.writer.name = packet;
	} else {

		this.writer.location.href = this.writer_url + '#' + packet;
	}

};

FragmentPacket.prototype.sendFlag = function(flag, seqno) {
	this.sendRawPacket(this._zerofill(flag, 4) + this._zerofill(seqno, 20));
};

FragmentPacket.prototype.send = function(msg) {
	this._send(0, encodeURIComponent(msg));
};

FragmentPacket.prototype._send = function(packetNum, msg) {
	var that = this;
	var recvBuf = this.recv();

	if (packetNum === 0) {

		if (!(recvBuf.flags & this.READY)) {
			this.log('client is not ready, waiting...');
			window.setTimeout(function() { that._send(packetNum, msg); }, this.WAIT_TIME);
			return;
		}
	} else {

		if (!( (recvBuf.flags & this.ACK) && (recvBuf.seqno === this._lastSeqno) )) {
			this.log('waiting for ack from client...');
			window.setTimeout(function() { that._send(packetNum, msg); }, this.WAIT_TIME);
			return;
		} else {
			this.log('received ack: ' + this._lastSeqno + ' ' + recvBuf.seqno);
		}
	}

	var flags = this.WRITING;
	var num_packets = Math.ceil(msg.length / this.MAX_DATA_LEN);
	this.log('num_packets: ' + num_packets);

	if (num_packets === packetNum) {

		this.log('message successfully sent!');
		this.sendFlag(this.READY | this.ACK, this._lastSeqno);
		return true;
	}

	this._lastSeqno++;

	if (packetNum == num_packets-1) {
		flags |= this.FIN;
	}

	var data = msg.substring(packetNum * this.MAX_DATA_LEN, (packetNum+1) * this.MAX_DATA_LEN);
	var packet = this._zerofill(flags, 4) + this._zerofill(this._lastSeqno, 20) + data;

	this.log('sending raw packet: ' + packet);
	this.sendRawPacket(packet);

	return this._send(packetNum + 1, msg);
};

FragmentPacket.prototype._zerofill = function(num, width) {
	var retval = num.toString();
	var retval_len = retval.length;
	for (var i = 0; i < width - retval_len; i++) {
		retval = '0' + retval;
	}
	return retval;
};

var PostMessagePacket = function(receiver, receiveCallback, id, receiverId) {
	var that = this;
	this.receiver = receiver;
	this.receiveCallback = receiveCallback;
	this.id = id;


	this.receiverId = receiverId;
};

PostMessagePacket.prototype.createListener = function() {
	var that = this;

	var listener = function(e) {

		if (!that.id) {
			that.id = e.data;
			return;
		}


		var id = e.data.split(';')[0];
		if (id !== that.id) {
			return;
		}
		var data = e.data.substring(e.data.indexOf(';') + 1);

		that.receiveCallback(data);
	};

	if (typeof window.attachEvent == 'function') {
		window.attachEvent('onmessage', listener);
	} else if (typeof window.addEventListener == 'function') {
		window.addEventListener('message', listener, false);
	} else {
		throw new Error('No method found to create event listener for PostMessagePacket.');
	}
};

PostMessagePacket.prototype.send = function(msg) {



	var needs_reget = false;
	try {
		if (typeof this.receiver.id == 'undefined' || typeof this.receiver.postMessage == 'undefined') {
			needs_reget = true;
		}
	} catch(e) {


	}
	if (needs_reget && typeof this.receiverId != 'undefined') {
		this.receiver = document.getElementById(this.receiverId).contentWindow;
	}

	var packet;
	if (!msg) {

		packet = this.id;
	} else {
		packet = this.id + ';' + msg;
	}
	this.receiver.postMessage(packet, '*');
};

PostMessagePacket._last_unique_id = null;
PostMessagePacket._get_unique_id = function() {
	var id = (new Date()).getTime();
	if (id == PostMessagePacket._last_unique_id) {
		id++;
	}
	PostMessagePacket._last_unique_id = id;
	return id.toString();
};

var JsonRpc = function() {

	this.ids = {};

	this.objectToJSON = function(obj) {
		var json = '';
		var results = [];

		if (obj === undefined || obj === null) {
			return 'null';
		}

		switch (obj.constructor) {
			case Object:
				for (var property in obj) {
					if (obj.hasOwnProperty(property)) {
						results.push(this.objectToJSON(property) + ': ' + this.objectToJSON(obj[property]));
					}
				}
				json = '{' + results.join(', ') + '}';
				break;
			case Array:
				for (var i = 0; i < obj.length; i++) {
					results.push(this.objectToJSON(obj[i]));
				}
				json = '[' + results.join(', ') + ']';
				break;
			case Number:
			case Boolean:
				json = obj.toString();
				break;
			case String:

				var specialChars = {'\b': '\\b', '\t': '\\t', '\n': '\\n', '\f': '\\f', '\r': '\\r', '\\': '\\\\'};

				json = obj.replace(/[\x00-\x1f\\]/g, function(match) {
					var ch = specialChars[match];
					return ch ? ch : '\\u00' + match.charCodeAt().toPaddedString(2, 16);
				});

				json = '"' + json.replace(/"/g, '\\"') + '"';
				break;
			default:

				json = 'null';
				break;
		}

		return json;
	};

	this.createHandler = function(send_func, registered_funcs) {
		var that = this;
		var handler = function(message) {

			try {
				var rpc = eval('(' + message + ')');
			} catch(e) {
				alert('bad JSON: ' + message);
				return;
			}
			if (rpc.method) {

				if (!registered_funcs[rpc.method]) {
					return;
				}

				var retval = registered_funcs[rpc.method].apply(null, rpc.params);
				if (rpc.id) {
					var response = {
						result: retval,
						error: null,	// TODO
						id: rpc.id
					};
					send_func(that.objectToJSON(response));
				}
			} else if(rpc.result) {

				if (!that.ids[rpc.id]) {
					return;
				}

				that.ids[rpc.id](rpc.result);
				delete that.ids[rpc.id];
			}
		};
		return handler;
	};

	this.execute = function(send_func, method, params, response_callback) {
		response_callback = response_callback || null;
		var id = (response_callback) ? (new Date()).getTime() : null;

		var request = {
			method: method,
			params: params,
			id: id
		};

		send_func(this.objectToJSON(request));

		if (id) {
			this.ids[id] = response_callback;
		}
	};
};
JsonRpc = new JsonRpc();

var ParentMessenger = function(childUrl, receiverUrl, container, receiveCallback) {


	if (navigator.userAgent.indexOf('Safari') >= 0 && parseInt(navigator.userAgent.substring(navigator.userAgent.indexOf('Version/') + 8), 10) == 3) {
		throw new Error("unsupported.");
	} else if (window.opera) {
		throw new Error("unsupported.");
	}



	if (!receiverUrl &&
		navigator.userAgent.indexOf('Gecko') >= 0 &&
		parseFloat(navigator.userAgent.slice(navigator.userAgent.indexOf('rv:') + 3, navigator.userAgent.indexOf('rv:') + 6)) < 1.9) {
		throw new Error("unsupported.");
	}


	if (/msie/i.test(navigator.userAgent) && !/opera/i.test(navigator.userAgent)) {


		if (document.domain == window.location.hostname) {
			receiverUrl = '';
		}
	}

	var that = this;
	this.childUrl = childUrl;
	this.receiverUrl = receiverUrl;
	this.container = container || document.body;

	this.packetHandler = null;


	this._ready = false;
	this._error = false;


	var _createReceiverForFragmentPacket = function() {

		that.receiver = document.createElement('iframe');
		that.receiver.src = receiverUrl;
		that.receiver.id = 'receiver_' + (new Date()).getTime();
		that.receiver.name = that.receiver.id;

		that.receiver.frameBorder = '0';
		that.receiver.frameSpacing = '0';
		that.receiver.style.borderStyle = 'none';

		var receiver_onload = function() {
			var receiver = document.getElementById(that.receiver.id).contentWindow;

			try {
				receiver.document.body.innerHTML = '';
			} catch(e) {

				that._error = true;
			}
			receiver.document.body.style.padding = '0px';
			receiver.document.body.style.margin = '0px';

			var child = receiver.document.createElement('iframe');
			child.id = 'child';
			child.name = 'child';
			child.src = that.childUrl;

			child.frameBorder = '0';
			child.frameSpacing = '0';
			child.style.borderStyle = 'none';
			child.style.width = '100%';
			child.style.height = '100%';
			receiver.document.body.appendChild(child);

			that.child = receiver.document.getElementById('child').contentWindow;
			that.receiver = receiver;

			that.packetHandler = new FragmentPacket(that.receiver, that.child, that.childUrl, false, receiveCallback);

			that._listener = that.packetHandler.createListener();

			that.packetHandler.sendFlag(that.packetHandler.READY, 0);

			that._ready = true;
		};

		that.receiver.onreadystatechange = function() {
			if (this.readyState == 'complete') {
				receiver_onload();
			}
		};

		that.receiver.onload = receiver_onload;







		if (Dsq.Utils.ie) {
			if (that.container.clientWidth === 0) {

				var _waitForWidth = function() {
					if (that.container.clientWidth > 0) {
						Dsq.Utils.fixIframesIE(that.container.id);
					} else {
						window.setTimeout(_waitForWidth, 100);
					}
				};
				_waitForWidth();

				that._once = false;
				that.receiver.onresize = function() {
					if (!that._once) {
						Dsq.Utils.fixIframesIE(that.container.id);
					}
					that._once = true;
				};
			}
		}

		that.container.appendChild(that.receiver);
	};


	var _createReceiverForPostMessage = function() {

		var receiver_onload = function() {

			that.packetHandler.send();
			that._ready = true;
		};

		var id = PostMessagePacket._get_unique_id();
		var receiverId = 'child_' + id;


		ParentMessenger['_receiver_onload_' + receiverId] = receiver_onload;

		that.container.innerHTML += '<iframe ' +
			'src="' + childUrl + '" ' +
			'id="' + receiverId + '" ' +
			'name="' + receiverId + '" ' +
			'onload="ParentMessenger._receiver_onload_' + receiverId +'();" ' +
			'></iframe>';

		that.receiver = document.getElementById(receiverId).contentWindow;
		that.packetHandler = new PostMessagePacket(that.receiver, receiveCallback, id, receiverId);
		that._listener = that.packetHandler.createListener();
	};

	if (typeof window.postMessage == 'function') {
		_createReceiverForPostMessage();
	} else {
		_createReceiverForFragmentPacket();
	}

};

ParentMessenger.prototype.sendMessage = function(message) {
	var that = this;
	if (!this._ready) {

		window.setTimeout(function() { that.sendMessage(message); }, 10);
		return;
	}
	this.packetHandler.send(message);
	return true;
};

Dsq.NewFrames = function(url) {
	this.url = url;
};

Dsq.NewFrames.prototype.init = function(onFailure) {
	var that = this;

	try {
		this.messenger = new ParentMessenger(this.url, Dsq.jsonData.integration.receiver_url, this.container, this.receive_callback);
	} catch(e) {
		if (typeof onFailure == 'function') {
			onFailure();
		}
	}

	if (typeof onFailure == 'function') {
		var iId = window.setInterval(function() {
			if (typeof that.messenger == 'undefined') {
				window.clearInterval(iId);
				return;
			}
			if (that.messenger._ready) {
				window.clearInterval(iId);
			} else if (that.messenger._error) {
				window.clearInterval(iId);
				onFailure();
			}
		}, 10);
	}
};

Dsq.NewFrames.prototype._execute = function(method, args, callback) {
	var that = this;
	if (typeof that.messenger == 'undefined') {
		return false;
	}
	JsonRpc.execute(
		function(msg) { that.messenger.sendMessage(msg); },
		method,
		args || [],
		callback);
	return true;
};

Dsq.ReplyFrame = function(container, parent_post_id) {
	var that = this;
	this.container = container;
	this.parent_post_id = parent_post_id;

	var sendFunc = function(msg) {

		Dsq.Debug.log('Dsq.ReplyFrame.sendFunc');
		that.messenger.sendMessage(msg);
	};


	var postComment_onSuccess = function(response) {
		Dsq.jsonData.posts[response.message.id] = response.message.post_meta;
		if (!Dsq.jsonData.users[response.message.post_meta.user_key]) {
			Dsq.jsonData.users[response.message.post_meta.user_key] = response.message.user_meta;
		}


		var reply_position = (typeof(disqus_insert_wrt_sort) == 'undefined' 
			? (Dsq.jsonData.forum.reply_position ? -1 : null) 
			: (Dsq.jsonData.request.sort == 2 ? null : -1));
		
		if (response.message.post_meta.approved) {
			Dsq.Post.insert(response.message.post_meta.parent_post_id || reply_position, response.message.id, response.message.post_meta.message);
		}

		Dsq.Templates.postComment_onSuccess(response, parent_post_id, response.message.id);
	};

	var postComment_onFailure = function(response) {
		Dsq.Popup.popModal(response.message, 'Error');
		Dsq.Templates.postComment_onFailure(response, parent_post_id, response.message.id);
	};

	var editComment_onSuccess = function(response) {
		var post_id = parent_post_id;
		var message = Dsq.$('dsq-comment-message-' + post_id);
		
		message.innerHTML = response.message;
		Dsq.Templates.toggleEdit(post_id);
		Dsq.Templates.setLoadingButton(false);
	};
	
	var editComment_onFailure = function(response) {
		var post_id = parent_post_id;
		
		Dsq.Popup.popModal('Sorry, there was an error editing this comment.', 'Edit Error');
		Dsq.Templates.toggleEdit(post_id);
		Dsq.Templates.setLoadingButton(false);
	};

	var getUserByEmail_onSuccess = function(response) {
		var msg = response.message;
		var fields = Dsq.Templates.getFormFields(parent_post_id);

		if (msg.username) {

			Dsq.Templates.lightboxAuthenticate(parent_post_id, 'login', {
				'username': msg.username,
				'display_name': msg.display_name,
				'avatar_url': msg.avatar_url,
				'verified': msg.verified,
				'email': fields.email.value
			});
		} else {

			Dsq.Templates.lightboxAuthenticate(parent_post_id, 'register');
		}
	};

	var validateAuth_onSuccess = function(response, auth_choice) {
		Dsq.Templates.postComment(parent_post_id, null, true, auth_choice);
	};

	var validateAuth_onFailure = function(response, auth_choice) {
		var pid = parent_post_id ? '-' + parent_post_id : '';
		var msg = response.message;

		if (auth_choice == 'register') {
			var fields = ['email', 'username', 'password'];

			for (var i = 0; i < fields.length; i++) {
				var field = fields[i];
				var errorDiv = Dsq.$('dsq-' + field + '-errors' + pid);

				if (msg[field]) {
					errorDiv.innerHTML = msg[field];
				} else {
					errorDiv.innerHTML = '';
				}
			}
		} else if (auth_choice == 'login') {
			Dsq.$('dsq-lightbox-errors' + pid).innerHTML = '<p>We couldn\'t log you in. Please verify your login.</p>';
		}
		
		Dsq.Templates.setLoadingButton(false);
	};

	this.receive_callback = JsonRpc.createHandler(sendFunc, {
		'postComment.onSuccess': postComment_onSuccess,
		'postComment.onFailure': postComment_onFailure,
		'editComment.onSuccess': editComment_onSuccess,
		'editComment.onFailure': editComment_onFailure,		
		'getUserByEmail.onSuccess': getUserByEmail_onSuccess,
		'validateAuth.onSuccess': validateAuth_onSuccess,
		'validateAuth.onFailure': validateAuth_onFailure,
		'reload': function() { window.location.reload(); }
	});

	this.url = Dsq.Urls.REPLY +
		'?' + (new Date()).getTime() +
		'&f=jackandjillpolitics' +
		'&t=the_autopsy_on_why_proposition_8_passed_hint_black_people_didn8217t_help_kill_it' +
		'&ff=' + Dsq.Thread.ff +
		'&default_text=' + disqus_default_text +
		'&ifrs=' + encodeURIComponent(disqus_iframe_css);
	if (this.parent_post_id) {
		this.url += '&parent_post=' + this.parent_post_id;
	}
};

Dsq.ReplyFrame.prototype = new Dsq.NewFrames(Dsq.ReplyFrame.url);

Dsq.ReplyFrame.prototype.post = function(author_name, author_email, author_url, authenticate, sharing_services, subscribe) {
	this._execute('postComment', [author_name, author_email, author_url, authenticate, sharing_services, subscribe]);
};

Dsq.ReplyFrame.prototype.edit = function(post_id, message) {
	this._execute('editComment', [post_id, message]);
};

Dsq.ReplyFrame.prototype.setState = function(parent_post_id, depth) {
	this._execute('setState', [parent_post_id, depth]);
};

Dsq.ReplyFrame.prototype.getUserByEmail = function(email) {
	this._execute('getUserByEmail', [email]);
};

Dsq.ReplyFrame.prototype.validateAuth = function(auth_choice, email, username, password) {
	this._execute('validateAuth', [auth_choice, email, username, password]);
};

Dsq.ReplyFrame.prototype.authenticateFacebook = function(session, forum_url) {
	this._execute('authenticateFacebook', [session, forum_url]);
};

	Dsq.Facebook = function() {
	var that = this;

	var handleSessionData = function(session) {

		var forum_url = Dsq.jsonData.forum.url;




		if (typeof disqus_facebook_forum != 'undefined') {
			forum_url = disqus_facebook_forum;
		}
		Dsq.frames.reply_0.authenticateFacebook(session, forum_url);
	};

	var onLogin = function() {
		FB.Connect.getSignedPublicSessionData(handleSessionData);
	};

	this.login = function() {
		FB.Connect.requireSession(onLogin, true);
	};
};
Dsq.Facebook = new Dsq.Facebook();


	






Dsq.Themes = {};

Dsq.Themes.narcissus = new function() {
	this.addPostContainer = 'dsq-form-area';
	this.textareaContainer = 'dsq-textarea-wrapper';



	
	this.header = function() {
		var comments_count, total_posts, num_posts;
		var html = '';
		var missing_perm_tmpl;

		if (Dsq.jsonData.request.missing_perm) {
			missing_perm_tmpl = Dsq.Templates.missingPermissions();
			if (missing_perm_tmpl) {
				html += '<div class="dsq-missing-permissions">' + missing_perm_tmpl + '</div>';
			}
		}

		total_posts = Dsq.jsonData.thread.total_posts;
		num_posts = Dsq.jsonData.thread.num_posts;

		if (total_posts) {
			comments_count = Dsq.FmtStrings.SHOWING_COMMENTS_FULL(total_posts, num_posts);
		} else {
			comments_count = Dsq.FmtStrings.SHOWING_COMMENTS_WITHOUT_PAGINATION(num_posts);
		}

		html += ' \
		<div id="dsq-comments-title"> \
			<h3>' + comments_count + '</h3> \
		</div> \
		';

		html += ' \
		<div class="dsq-options"> \
			<span class="dsq-item-sort">'
				+ Dsq.Strings.SORT_BY + ' \
				<select id="dsq-sort-select" onchange="Dsq.Thread.sortBy(this.value);"> \
					<option value="hot" ' + (Dsq.jsonData.request.sort == 4 ? 'selected="selected"' : '') + '>' + Dsq.Strings.POPULAR_NOW + '</option> \
					<option value="best" ' + (Dsq.jsonData.request.sort == 3 ? 'selected="selected"' : '') + '>' + Dsq.Strings.BEST_RATING + '</option> \
					<option value="newest" ' + (Dsq.jsonData.request.sort == 2 ? 'selected="selected"' : '') + '>' + Dsq.Strings.NEWEST_FIRST + '</option> \
					<option value="oldest" ' + (Dsq.jsonData.request.sort == 1 ? 'selected="selected"' : '') + '>' + Dsq.Strings.OLDEST_FIRST + '</option> \
				</select> \
				&nbsp; \
			</span> \
			<span class="dsq-subscribe-email"> \
				<img src="http://media.disqus.com/images/embed/email.png" style="width:12px;height:12px;vertical-align:middle"> \
				<span id="dsq-subscribe">'
					+ (Dsq.jsonData.context.subscribed
						? '<a href="#" onclick="Dsq.Thread.subscribe(0); return false">' + Dsq.Strings.UNSUBSCRIBE + '</a>'
						: '<a href="#" onclick="Dsq.Thread.subscribe(1); return false">' + Dsq.Strings.SUBSCRIBE_BY_EMAIL + '</a>')
				+ '</span> \
			</span> \
			<span class="dsq-subscribe-rss" style="width:12px;height:12px;vertical-align:middle"> \
				<img src="http://media.disqus.com/images/embed/bullet-feed.png" alt="" /> \
				<a href="http://jackandjillpolitics.disqus.com/the_autopsy_on_why_proposition_8_passed_hint_black_people_didn8217t_help_kill_it/latest.rss">' + Dsq.Strings.SUBSCRIBE_BY_RSS + '</a> \
			</span> \
		</div> \
		';

		
		

		return html;

	};
	
	this.footer = function() {
		var html = '';

		html += Dsq.Templates.pagination();

		
		
			html += Dsq.Templates.realtime();
			html += Dsq.Templates.showThreadSettings();
			html += Dsq.Templates.postBox();

		html += Dsq.Templates.reactions();

		
			html += Dsq.Templates.trackbacks();
		


		if (Dsq.jsonData.request.is_global_moderator) {
 			html += ' \
				<div class="dsq-global-moderator-extras">'
					+ '<strong>shortname:</strong> ' + Dsq.jsonData.forum.url
					+ '<strong>thread id:</strong> ' + Dsq.jsonData.thread.id
					+ '<strong>thread slug:</strong> ' + Dsq.jsonData.thread.slug
				+ '</div> \
			';
		}

		return html;
	};
	
	this.realtime = function() {
		var html = '';
		
		if (Dsq.jsonData.realtime_enabled) {
			html += '<div id="dsq-realtime-options" class="dsq-options">'
					 + Dsq.Strings.REALTIME_UPDATING_IS + ' <strong id="dsq-realtime-status" style="text-transform: lowercase">' + Dsq.Strings.ENABLED + '</strong>. \
					 <a href="#" id="dsq-realtime-toggle" style="text-transform: capitalize"></a> \
					</div>';
		}

		if (!Dsq.jsonData.forum.streaming_realtime) {
			html += ' \
				<div style="display: none" id="dsq-realtime-alert" class="dsq-realtime-alert"><span id="dsq-realtime-queued"></span> <a href="#" id="dsq-realtime-show"></a></div> \
			';
		}
		
		return html;
	};

	this.showThreadSettings = function() {
		if (!Dsq.jsonData.request.is_moderator) {
			return '';
		}

		html = '<div id="dsq-thread-settings" class="dsq-thread-settings">' + Dsq.Strings.MODERATOR_OPTIONS;
		html += '<a href="#" onclick="Dsq.Thread.showSettings(); return false;">' + Dsq.Strings.SETTINGS + '</a>';
		if (Dsq.jsonData.forum.reactions_enabled && Dsq.jsonData.reactions.length === 0) {
			html += '<a href="#" onclick="Dsq.Reaction.reportMissingReactions(); return false;">'
						+ Dsq.Strings.REPORT_MISSING_REACTIONS
						+ '</a>';
		}
		html +='</div>';

		return html;
	};

	this.postBox = function(post_id, use_fallback_iframe) {


		var html;
		var display_sharing_options = Dsq.jsonData.request.is_authenticated;

		if (!Dsq.jsonData.request.is_authenticated && Dsq.jsonData.forum.disqus_auth_disabled && !Dsq.jsonData.forum.allow_anon_post) {
			return '';
		}
		
		if (Dsq.jsonData.request.is_remote) {


			if (!Dsq.jsonData.request.sharing.hasOwnProperty(Dsq.jsonData.request.remote_domain)) {
				display_sharing_options = false;
			}
		}
		
		if (post_id) {
			var _meta = Dsq.jsonData.posts[post_id];
			var userData = Dsq.jsonData['users'][_meta.user_key];				
		}
		
		var pid = post_id ? '-' + post_id : '';

		var _requestUserInfo = function() {
			var html;



			var user_has_email = false;

			html = '<div class="dsq-request-user-info"> <!-- // If authenticated --> \
				<a href="' + Dsq.jsonData.settings.disqus_url + Dsq.Urls.LOGOUT + '?ctkn=' + Dsq.CSRF_TOKEN + '" class="dsq-request-user-logout">' + Dsq.Strings.LOGOUT + '</a> \
				<table> \
					<tr> \
						<td rowspan="2">'
							+ (!Dsq.jsonData.forum.disqus_auth_disabled ? '<a href="' + Dsq.jsonData.settings.disqus_url + Dsq.Urls.REQUEST_USER_PROFILE + '">' : '')
								+ '<img src="' + Dsq.Urls.REQUEST_USER_AVATAR + '" width="48" height="48" class="dsq-request-user-avatar">'
							+ (!Dsq.jsonData.forum.disqus_auth_disabled ? '</a>' : '')
						+ '</td> \
						<td class="dsq-request-user-name">'
								+ (Dsq.jsonData.request.is_remote
									 ? '<span class="dsq-badge-small dsq-badge-' + Dsq.jsonData.request.remote_domain + '">' + Dsq.jsonData.request.remote_domain + '</span>'
									 : (Dsq.jsonData.request.is_verified
											? '<span class="dsq-badge-small dsq-badge-verified">Verified</span>'
											: '<span class="dsq-badge-small dsq-badge-registered">Registered</span>'))
							+ (!Dsq.jsonData.forum.disqus_auth_disabled ? ' <a href="' + Dsq.jsonData.settings.disqus_url + Dsq.Urls.REQUEST_USER_PROFILE + '">' : '') 
								+ Dsq.jsonData.request.display_username 
							+ (!Dsq.jsonData.forum.disqus_auth_disabled ? '</a>' : '')
							+  (Dsq.jsonData.request.is_remote && user_has_email ? ' <small>(<a href="#" onclick="Dsq.Popup.remoteAccountSettings(); return false;">change settings</a>)</small>' : '')
							+  (!Dsq.jsonData.request.is_remote && !Dsq.jsonData.forum.disqus_auth_disabled ? ' <small>(<a href="' + Dsq.jsonData.settings.disqus_url + '/profile/info/" target="_blank">change name</a> or <a href="' + Dsq.jsonData.settings.disqus_url + '/profile/avatar/" target="_blank">picture</a>)</small>' : '')
						+ '</td> \
					</tr> \
					<tr> \
						<td class="dsq-request-user-stats"> \
							<span><big>' + Dsq.jsonData.request.comments_count + '</big> ' + (Dsq.jsonData.request.comments_count == 1 ? 'comment' : 'comments') + '</span> \
							<span><big>' + Dsq.jsonData.request.likes_count + '</big> ' + (Dsq.jsonData.request.likes_count == 1 ? 'like' : 'likes') + '</span> \
							<span><big>' + Dsq.jsonData.request.points + '</big> ' + (Dsq.jsonData.request.points == 1 ? 'point' : 'points') + '</span> \
						</td> \
					</tr> \
				</table> \
			</div> \
			';
			return html;
		};

		var _loginOptions = function() {
			var html;
			html = ' \
			<div class="dsq-authenticate"> \
				<p class="dsq-autheneticate-copy">'
				+ (Dsq.jsonData.forum.allow_anon_post
					? Dsq.Strings.YOU_ARE_COMMENTING_AS_A + ' <a class="dsq-help" title="Click for more information" href="#" onclick="Dsq.Popup.helpBadges(); return false">Guest</a>. ' + Dsq.Strings.OPTIONAL + ': ' + Dsq.Strings.LOGIN_BELOW + '.'
					: Dsq.Strings.REQUIRED + ': ' + Dsq.Strings.PLEASE_LOGIN_BELOW_TO_COMMENT + '.')
				+ '</p> \
				<ul class="dsq-login-buttons">'
					+ (!Dsq.jsonData.forum.disqus_auth_disabled ? '<li class="dsq-login-button"><a href="#" onclick="Dsq.Popup.login(); return false"><img src="http://media.disqus.com/images/themes/narcissus/login-disqus.gif" /></a></li>' : '')
					+ (Dsq.jsonData.context.use_fb_connect ? '<li class="dsq-login-button"><a href="#" onclick="Dsq.Facebook.login(); return false;"><img src="http://media.disqus.com/images/themes/narcissus/login-facebook.gif" /></a></li>' : '')
					+ (Dsq.jsonData.context.use_twitter_signin ? '<li class="dsq-login-button"><a href="#" onclick="Dsq.Twitter.startTwitterConnect(); return false"><img src="http://media.disqus.com/images/themes/narcissus/login-twitter.gif" /></a></li>' : '')
					+ (Dsq.jsonData.context.use_openid ? '<li class="dsq-login-button"><a href="#" onclick="Dsq.OpenID.requestURL(); return false" ><img src="http://media.disqus.com/images/themes/narcissus/login-openid.gif" /></a></li>' : '')
					+ (Dsq.jsonData.context.use_yahoo ? '<li class="dsq-login-button"><a href="#" onclick="Dsq.Yahoo.startYahooConnect(); return false"><img src="http://media.disqus.com/images/themes/narcissus/login-yahoo.gif" /></a></li>' : '')
				+ '</ul> \
			</div> \
			';
			return html;
		};

		if (!Dsq.jsonData.context.show_reply) {


			if (!Dsq.jsonData.request.is_authenticated) {



				return '<div id="dsq-form-area" style="display:none"><div id="dsq-textarea-wrapper"></div></div>' + _loginOptions();
			} else {
				return '';
			}
		}

		html = ' \
		<div id="' + (post_id 
			? 'dsq-reply-post-' + post_id
			: 'dsq-new-post')
		 	+ '" class="dsq-post-area"> \
			<div class="dsq-dc-logo"> \
				<a href="http://disqus.com/comments" target="_blank"><img src="http://media.disqus.com/images/themes/narcissus/disqus-logo.png"></a> \
			</div>'
			+ (post_id 
				? '<h3>' + Dsq.Strings.REPLYING_TO + ' ' + userData.display_name + '</h3>'
				: '<h3>' + Dsq.Strings.ADD_NEW_COMMENT + '</h3>')
			+ (Dsq.jsonData.request.is_authenticated 
				? _requestUserInfo()
				: _loginOptions() )
			+ '<div id="dsq-form-area' + pid + '">'
			+ '<div class="dsq-textarea"> \
				<div class="dsq-textarea-wrapper" id="dsq-textarea-wrapper' + pid + '"></div> \
			</div>'
			+ (!Dsq.jsonData.request.is_authenticated
			? ' \
			<div class="dsq-post-fields"> \
				<form action="." method="GET" onsubmit="Dsq.Templates.postComment(' + post_id + ', this, false); return false;"> \
				<table> \
					<tr> \
						<td class="dsq-post-fields-left"><div class="dsq-input-wrapper"><input id="dsq-field-name' + pid + '" type="text" value="' + (disqus_def_name ? disqus_def_name : (Dsq.jsonData.session.name ? Dsq.jsonData.session.name : Dsq.Strings.NAME + '" class="dsq-placeholder')) + '" onfocus="Dsq.Templates.handlePlaceholder(event, this, \'name\')" onblur="Dsq.Templates.handlePlaceholder(event, this, \'name\')" /></div></td> \
						<td class="dsq-post-fields-right"><div class="dsq-input-wrapper"><input id="dsq-field-website' + pid + '" type="text" value="' + (Dsq.jsonData.session.url ? Dsq.jsonData.session.url : Dsq.Strings.WEBSITE + ' (' + Dsq.Strings.OPTIONAL.toLowerCase() + ')" class="dsq-placeholder') + '" onfocus="Dsq.Templates.handlePlaceholder(event, this, \'website\')" onblur="Dsq.Templates.handlePlaceholder(event, this, \'website\')" /></div></td> \
					</tr> \
					<tr> \
						<td class="dsq-post-fields-left"><div class="dsq-input-wrapper"><input id="dsq-field-email' + pid + '" type="text" value="' + (disqus_def_email ? disqus_def_email : (Dsq.jsonData.session.email ? Dsq.jsonData.session.email : Dsq.Strings.EMAIL + '" class="dsq-placeholder')) + '" onfocus="Dsq.Templates.handlePlaceholder(event, this, \'email\')" onblur="Dsq.Templates.handlePlaceholder(event, this, \'email\')" /></div></td> \
						<td class="dsq-post-fields-right"> \
							<div class="dsq-subscribe"> \
								<a href="#" onclick="Dsq.Templates.chooseSubscribe(' + post_id + '); return false" class="dsq-subscribe-menu"><span id="dsq-subscribe-select' + pid + '">' + (Dsq.jsonData.request.subscribe_on_post ? Dsq.Strings.SUBSCRIBE_TO_ALL_COMMENTS_BY_EMAIL : Dsq.Strings.DO_NOT_SUBSCRIBE_TO_COMMENTS) + '</span> <small>&#9660;</small></a> \
								<ul class="dsq-panel" id="dsq-subscribe-menu' + pid + '"> \
									<li><a href="#" onclick="Dsq.Templates.setSubscribe(2, this, ' + post_id + '); return false">Subscribe to all comments by email</a></li> \
									<li><a href="#" onclick="Dsq.Templates.setSubscribe(0, this, ' + post_id + '); return false">Do not subscribe to comments</a></li> \
								</ul> \
								<input id="dsq-subscribe-on-post' + pid + '" type="hidden" value="' + Dsq.jsonData.request.subscribe_on_post + '" /> \
							</div> \
						</td> \
					</tr> \
				</table> \
				</form> \
			</div>'
			: '')
			+ '<div class="dsq-post-footer"> \
				<div class="dsq-sharing-options" ' + (!display_sharing_options ? 'style="display:none;"' : '') + '> \
					<button class="dsq-button-small" onfocus="document.getElementById(\'dsq-post-button' + pid + '\').focus();"><span>' + Dsq.Strings.SHARING_OPTIONS + ' <small>&#9660;</small></span></button> \
					<div class="dsq-panel"> '
						+ (Dsq.jsonData.request.sharing.twitter !== undefined
								&& Dsq.jsonData.request.sharing.twitter.enabled === true
							? '<div><input type="checkbox" id="dsq-sharing-twitter' + pid + '"'
								  + (Dsq.jsonData.request.sharing.twitter.auto === true ? 'checked=true' : '') + '/> \
									<label for="dsq-sharing-twitter' + pid + '">' + Dsq.Strings.SHARE_ON + ' Twitter</label> \
								 </div>'
							: '')
						+ (Dsq.jsonData.request.sharing.facebook
								&& (Dsq.jsonData.request.sharing.facebook.enabled === true ||
										(Dsq.jsonData.request.is_remote && Dsq.jsonData.request.remote_domain == 'facebook'))
							? '<div><input type="checkbox" id="dsq-sharing-facebook' + pid + '"'
									+ (Dsq.jsonData.request.sharing.facebook.auto === true ? 'checked=true' : '') + '/> \
									<label for="dsq-sharing-facebook' + pid + '">' + Dsq.Strings.SHARE_ON + ' Facebook</label> \
								 </div>'
							: '')
						+ (Dsq.jsonData.request.sharing.yahoo !== undefined
								&& Dsq.jsonData.request.sharing.yahoo.enabled === true
							? '<div><input type="checkbox" id="dsq-sharing-yahoo' + pid + '"'
									+ (Dsq.jsonData.request.sharing.yahoo.auto === true ? 'checked=true' : '') + '/> \
									<label for="dsq-sharing-yahoo' + pid + '">' + Dsq.Strings.SHARE_ON + ' Yahoo!</label> \
								</div>'
							: '')
						+ (Dsq.jsonData.request.sharing.tumblr !== undefined
								&& Dsq.jsonData.request.sharing.tumblr.enabled === true
							? '<div><input type="checkbox" id="dsq-sharing-tumblr' + pid + '"'
									+ (Dsq.jsonData.request.sharing.tumblr.auto === true ? 'checked=true' : '') + '/> \
									<label for="dsq-sharing-tumblr' + pid + '">' + Dsq.Strings.SHARE_ON + ' Tumblr</label> \
								 </div>'
							: '')
						+ (Dsq.jsonData.request.sharing.wordpress !== undefined
								&& Dsq.jsonData.request.sharing.wordpress.enabled === true
							? '<div><input type="checkbox" id="dsq-sharing-wordpress' + pid + '"'
									+ (Dsq.jsonData.request.sharing.wordpress.auto === true ? 'checked=true' : '') + '/> \
									<label for="dsq-sharing-wordpress' + pid + '">' + Dsq.Strings.SHARE_ON + ' Wordpress</label> \
								 </div>'
							: '')
						+ (Dsq.jsonData.request.sharing.movabletype !== undefined
							  && Dsq.jsonData.request.sharing.movabletype.enabled === true
							? '<div><input type="checkbox" id="dsq-sharing-movabletype' + pid + '"'
									+ (Dsq.jsonData.request.sharing.movabletype.auto === true ? 'checked=true' : '') + '/> \
									<label for="dsq-sharing-movabletype' + pid + '">' + Dsq.Strings.SHARE_ON + ' Movable Type</label> \
							   </div>'
							: '')
						+ (Dsq.jsonData.request.sharing.typepad !== undefined
							  && Dsq.jsonData.request.sharing.typepad.enabled === true
							? '<div><input type="checkbox" id="dsq-sharing-typepad' + pid + '"'
									+ (Dsq.jsonData.request.sharing.typepad.auto === true ? 'checked=true' : '') + '/> \
								  <label for="dsq-sharing-typepad' + pid + '">' + Dsq.Strings.SHARE_ON + ' TypePad</label> \
							   </div>'
							: '')
						+ '<div><a href="' + Dsq.jsonData.settings.disqus_url + '/profile/connections/" target="_blank" class="dsq-configure-options">' + Dsq.Strings.CONFIGURE_OPTIONS + '</a></div>'
					+ '</div> \
				</div>'
				+ '<button class="dsq-button" id="dsq-post-button' + pid + '" onclick="Dsq.Templates.postComment(' + post_id + ', this, false)"><span>' + Dsq.Strings.POST_AS + ' '
				+ (Dsq.jsonData.request.display_username
					? Dsq.jsonData.request.display_username
					: Dsq.Strings.GUEST)
				+ '</span></button>'
				+ (post_id
					? '<button class="dsq-button" id="dsq-cancel-button' + pid + '" onclick="Dsq.Post.toggleReply(' + post_id +', this)"><span>' + Dsq.Strings.CANCEL + '</span></button>'
					: '')
			+ '</div>'
			+ '</div>' // end dsq-form-area
		+ '</div> \
		';
		
		return html;
	};




	this.appendPost = function(post_id) {
		var html = '<div id="dsq-append-post-' + post_id + '"></div>';
		return html;
	};

	this.postPrependHeader = function(post_id) {
		var html;
		var _meta = Dsq.jsonData.posts[post_id];
		var userData = Dsq.jsonData['users'][_meta.user_key];
		
		html = ' \
		<table> \
			<tr> \
				<td id="dsq-header-avatar-' + post_id + '" class="dsq-header-avatar" onmouseover="Dsq.Post.dropProfile(' + post_id + ')"> \
					<a id="dsq-avatar-' + post_id + '" class="dsq-avatar" href="' + userData.url + '" onclick="Dsq.Popup.popProfile(' + post_id + '); return false;">'
					+ (Dsq.jsonData.forum.show_avatar
					? '<img src="' + Dsq.jsonData.users[_meta.user_key].avatar + '" alt="" />'
					: '')
				+ '</a> \
				</td> \
				<td class="dsq-comment-header-meta"> \
		';

		
		return html;
	};
	
	this.postAppendHeader = function(post_id) {
		var _meta = Dsq.jsonData.posts[post_id];
		var html;
		var parent_display_name = '';
		
		if(_meta.parent_post_id) {

			var _parent_meta = Dsq.jsonData.posts[_meta.parent_post_id];

			if (_parent_meta) {
				var parentUserData = Dsq.jsonData['users'][_parent_meta.user_key];
				parent_display_name = parentUserData.display_name;
			}
		}

		html = ' \
		<img src="http://media.disqus.com/images/themes/narcissus/moderator.png" class="dsq-moderator-star" title="Moderator" /> \
		<span class="dsq-comment-header-time"><a href="#comment-' + post_id + '" onclick="Dsq.Popup.permalink(' + post_id + ')" title="Permalink">' + (_meta.is_realtime ? Dsq.Strings.JUST_NOW : _meta.date) + '</a></span> '
		+ (_meta.parent_post_id && parent_display_name
			? '<a href="#comment-' + _meta.parent_post_id + '" title="Jump to comment">in reply to ' + parent_display_name + '</a>'
			: '')
		+ '</td> \
		<td id="dsq-like-pts-' + post_id + '" class="dsq-comment-header-likes">'
		+ (_meta.points
			? _meta.points + Dsq.Utils.pluralize(_meta.points, ' person', ' people') + ' liked this.'
			: '')
		+ '</td> \
		</tr> \
		</table> \
		';
		return html;
	};

	this.preBody = function(post_id) {
		var html = '';
		return html;
	};

	this.postFooter = function(post_id) {
		var html;
		var _meta = Dsq.jsonData.posts[post_id];
		if(_meta.killed || !_meta.approved) { return ''; }
		
		html = ' \
		<div class="dsq-comment-footer" id="dsq-comment-footer-' + post_id + '"> \
			<div class="dsq-comment-footer-left">'
				+ (Dsq.jsonData.request.is_moderator || Dsq.jsonData.request.is_global_moderator
					? '<a href="#" onclick="Dsq.Templates.moderateOptions(' + post_id+ '); return false">' + Dsq.Strings.MODERATE + '</a>'
					: '')
				+ '<a href="#" id="dsq-post-report-' + post_id + '" class="dsq-post-report" onclick="Dsq.Post.report(' + post_id + ', false); return false;">' + Dsq.Strings.FLAG + '</a> \
			</div> \
			<div class="dsq-comment-footer-right">'
				+ (_meta.votable 
					? '<span id="dsq-like-' + post_id + '" class="dsq-like">'
					+ (!_meta.up_voted
						? '<button class="dsq-button-small" onclick="Dsq.Post.rate(this, ' + post_id + ', 1)" >Like</button>'
						: 'You liked this.&nbsp;&nbsp;')
					+ '</span>'
					: '')
				+ (_meta.can_reply && !_meta.has_replies && _meta.from_request_user
					? '<button class="dsq-button-small dsq-post-edit" onclick="Dsq.Post.edit(this, ' + post_id + ')" >' + Dsq.Strings.EDIT + '</button>'
					: '')
				+ (_meta.can_reply
					? '<span class="dsq-comment-footer-reply" id="dsq-comment-footer-reply-' + post_id + '" onclick="Dsq.Post.toggleReply(' + post_id +', this)"> \
						<button class="dsq-button-small">' + Dsq.Strings.REPLY + '</button> \
						<button class="dsq-comment-footer-reply-tab">' + Dsq.Strings.REPLY + '</button><span></span> \
					</span>'
					: '')
			+ '</div> \
		</div> \
		';
		
		return html;
	};



	
	this.showRetweets = function(id, limit, element_id /* Optional */) {
		var source, html = '';

		for (var i = 0, reaction; reaction = Dsq.jsonData.reactions[i]; i++) {
			if (reaction.id === id) {
				source = reaction.retweets;
			}
		}

		if (source) {
			if (limit === 0) {
				limit = source.length;
			}

			for (var j = 0; j < limit; j++) {
				var rt = source[j];
				html += '<a href="' + rt.url + '">' + rt.author_name + '</a>'	+ ((j === (limit - 1)) ? '.' : ', ');
			}
		}

		if (element_id === undefined) {
			return html;
		}

		var element = document.getElementById(element_id);
		element.innerHTML = html;
		return element;
	};

	this.showMoreReactions = function(reactions, has_more, start, limit) {
		var link = document.getElementById('dsq-show-more-reactions');
		var container = link.parentNode;
		container.removeChild(link);

		for (var i = 0, reaction; reaction = reactions[i]; i++) {
			var el = Dsq.Templates.generateReactionHTML(reaction);
			if (el) {
				container.innerHTML += el;
			}
		}

		if (has_more) {
			var d = Dsq.jsonData.settings.disqus_url;
			var f = Dsq.jsonData.forum.url;
			var t = Dsq.jsonData.thread.id;
			var s = start;
			var l = limit;

			var handler = 'Dsq.Utils.execScript(\'' + d + '/forums/' + f + '/more_reactions.js?t=' + t + '&s=' + s + '&l=' + l + '\', true); return false;';
			container.innerHTML += '<li id="dsq-show-more-reactions" class="dsq-show-more-reactions"><button class="dsq-button-small" onclick="' + handler + '">Show more reactions</button></li>';
		}
	};

	this.generateReactionHTML = function(reaction) {
		if (reaction.body === null || reaction.body == '') {
			return;
		}

		if (reaction.author_name === '') {
			reaction.author_name = '&nbsp;';
		}

		if (reaction.url === '') {
			reaction.url = reaction.get_service_url;
		}

		var item = '<li class="dsq-comment dsq-reaction" id="dsq-reaction-' + reaction.id + '">'
			+ '<div class="dsq-comment-header"> \
			<table> \
			<tr> \
			<td class="dsq-header-avatar"> \
			';

		if (reaction.author_url && reaction.author_url !== '') {
			item += '<a target="_blank" href="' + reaction.author_url +'" class="dsq-avatar">';
		}

		if (reaction.avatar_url && reaction.avatar_url !== '') {
			item += '<img src="' + reaction.avatar_url + '"/>';
		} else {

			item += '<img src="' + Dsq.jsonData.media_url + '/images/noavatar92.png"/>';
		}

		var service_icon = (reaction.get_service_name == 'trackback' || reaction.get_service_name == 'pingback' ? 'rss' : reaction.get_service_name.replace(' ', ''));
		item += (reaction.author_url && reaction.author_url !== ''
				? '</a>'
				: '')
			+ '</td>'
			+ '<td><cite class="dsq-comment-cite">' + reaction.author_name + '</cite> <span class="dsq-comment-header-time">' + reaction.date_created + '</span></td>'
			+ '<td class="dsq-comment-header-likes"></td>'
			+ '</tr></table></div>' // end dsq-comment-header
			+ '<div class="dsq-reaction-header" \
				<table> \
					<tr> \
						<td class="dsq-reaction-header-left">'
							+ '<img class="dsq-service-icon" src="' + Dsq.jsonData.media_url + '/images/reactions/services/' + service_icon + '.png" />'
							+ ' From <a class="dsq-service-name" target="_blank" href="' + reaction.url + '">' + reaction.get_service_name + '</a> '
							+ 'via ' + (reaction.source == 'backtype' ? '<a href="http://backtype.com/">BackType</a>' : '<a href="' + reaction.source_url + '">UberVU</a>')
						+ '</td>'
						+ '<td class="dsq-reaction-header-right">';
			
			if(reaction.retweets) {
				var num_retweets = reaction.retweets.length;
				if (num_retweets > 0) {
					if (num_retweets == 1) {
						item += 'One more retweet from <a href="' + reaction.retweets[0].url + '">'  + reaction.retweets[0].author_name + '</a>';
					} else {
						item += (num_retweets + ' more retweets from ');
						item += '<span id="dsq-reaction-retweets-' + reaction.id + '">';
						var n_tweets = (num_retweets > 3) ? 3 : num_retweets;
						item += Dsq.Templates.showRetweets(reaction.id, n_tweets);
						if (n_tweets != num_retweets) {
							item += '</span> <a onclick="Dsq.Templates.showRetweets(' + reaction.id + ', 0, \'dsq-reaction-retweets-' + reaction.id + '\');'
								+ 'this.parentNode.removeChild(this); return false;" href="#">Show all</a>';
						}
					}
				}
			}	
			item += '</td></tr> \
			</table> \
			</div>' // end dsq-reaction-header
			+ '<div class="dsq-comment-body"> \
				<div class="dsq-comment-message">' + reaction.body + '</div>'
			+ '</div> \
			<div class="dsq-comment-footer"> \
				<div class="dsq-comment-footer-left"> \
				</div>'
				+ (Dsq.jsonData.request.is_moderator || Dsq.jsonData.request.is_global_moderator 
					? ' \
					<div class="dsq-comment-footer-right"> \
						<button class="dsq-button-small dsq-hide-reaction" onclick="Dsq.Reaction.hide(' + reaction.id + ')">Hide</button> \
					</div>'
					: '')
			+ '</div>'
		item += '</li>'; /* Reaction HTML ends */
		return item;
	};

	this.reactions = function() {
		var html, reaction;

		if (Dsq.jsonData.reactions === undefined || Dsq.jsonData.reactions.length === 0) {
			return '';
		}

		html = '';
		for (var i = 0; reaction = Dsq.jsonData.reactions[i]; i++) {
			var item = Dsq.Templates.generateReactionHTML(reaction);
			if (item) {
				html += item;
			}
		}

		if (Dsq.jsonData.has_more_reactions) {
			var d = Dsq.jsonData.settings.disqus_url;
			var f = Dsq.jsonData.forum.url;
			var t = Dsq.jsonData.thread.id;
			var s = Dsq.jsonData.reactions_start;
			var l = Dsq.jsonData.reactions_limit;

			var handler = 'Dsq.Utils.execScript(\'' + d + '/forums/' + f + '/more_reactions.js?t=' + t + '&s=' + s + '&l=' + l + '\', true); return false;';
			html += '<li id="dsq-show-more-reactions" class="dsq-show-more-reactions"><button class="dsq-button-small" onclick="' + handler + '">Show more reactions</button></li>';
		}

		return '<h3 id="dsq-reactions-title" class="dsq-h3-reactions">Reactions</h3><ul id="dsq-reactions" class="dsq-reactions">' + html + '</ul>';
	};
	
	this._popupGeneric = function(content) {
		return ' \
		<div class="dsq-popup-container"> \
			<table> \
				<tbody> \
					<tr> \
						<td class="dsq-popup-tl"></td><td class="dsq-popup-b"></td><td class="dsq-popup-tr"></td> \
					</tr> \
					<tr> \
						<td class="dsq-popup-b"></td> \
						<td class="dsq-popup-body"> \
							<div class="dsq-popup-content"> \
								<div class="dsq-popup-title"> \
									<button class="dsq-button-small" style="float:right" onclick="Dsq.Popup._closePopup(null, true)">Close</button>' 
									+ content['header'] 
								+ '</div>'
								+ content['body']
							+ '</div> \
							<div class="powered-by"><a href="http://disqus.com/comments/">Powered by <img src="http://media.disqus.com/images/embed/disqus-logo.png" alt="Disqus Comments" style="margin-bottom:-5px" /></a></div> \
						</td> \
						<td class="dsq-popup-b"></td> \
					</tr> \
					<tr> \
						<td class="dsq-popup-bl"></td><td class="dsq-popup-b"></td><td class="dsq-popup-br"></td> \
					</tr> \
				</tbody> \
			</table> \
		</div> \
		';
	};



	
	this.chooseSubscribe = function(post_id) {

		var pid = post_id ? '-' + post_id : '';
		var menu = Dsq.$('dsq-subscribe-menu' + pid);
		
		menu.style.display = menu.style.display == 'block' ? 'none' : 'block';
		
	};
	
	this.setSubscribe = function(value, el, post_id) {

		var pid = post_id ? '-' + post_id : '';
		var input = Dsq.$('dsq-subscribe-on-post' + pid);
		var select = Dsq.$('dsq-subscribe-select' + pid);
		var menu = Dsq.$('dsq-subscribe-menu' + pid);
		
		select.innerHTML = el.innerHTML;
		input.value = value;
		this.chooseSubscribe(post_id);
	};
	
	this.getFormFields = function(post_id) {

		var fields = {};
		var pid = post_id ? '-' + post_id : '';
		var name = Dsq.$('dsq-field-name' + pid);
		var email = Dsq.$('dsq-field-email' + pid);
		var website = Dsq.$('dsq-field-website' + pid);
		var username = Dsq.$('dsq-field-username' + pid);
		var password = Dsq.$('dsq-field-password' + pid);

		fields = {
			'name': name,
			'email': email,
			'website': website,
			'username': username,
			'password': password
		}
		
		return fields;
	}
	
	this.validateFields = function(post_id) {
		
		if(Dsq.jsonData.request.is_authenticated) { return true; }
		
		var fields = Dsq.Templates.getFormFields(post_id);
		
		var nameField = fields.name;
		var websiteField = fields.website;
		var emailField = fields.email;
		
		websiteField.value = (websiteField.value == Dsq.Templates.placeholder['website']) ? '' : websiteField.value;
		
		var v = [{

			validator: Dsq.Validators.name,
			value: nameField.value
		}, {

			validator: Dsq.Validators.email,
			value: emailField.value
		}, {

			validator: Dsq.Validators.url,
			value: websiteField.value
		}];
		
		return Dsq.Validators.validate(v, function(e) { Dsq.Popup.popModal(e, 'Oops...') } );
	};
	
	this.checkExistingUser = function(post_id) {
		var fields = Dsq.Templates.getFormFields(post_id);		
		Dsq.Popup.loading(post_id);
		
		if (post_id) {
			Dsq.frames['reply_' + post_id].getUserByEmail(fields.email.value);
		} else {
			Dsq.frames['reply_0'].getUserByEmail(fields.email.value);
		}
	};

	this.validateAuth = function(el_clicked, post_id, auth_choice) {
		var fields = Dsq.Templates.getFormFields(post_id);
		var email = fields.email ? fields.email.value : '';
		var username = fields.username ? fields.username.value : '';
		var password = fields.password ? fields.password.value : '';
		
		Dsq.Templates.setLoadingButton(el_clicked, post_id);
		
		if (post_id) {
			Dsq.frames['reply_' + post_id].validateAuth(auth_choice, email, username, password);
		} else {
			Dsq.frames['reply_0'].validateAuth(auth_choice, email, username, password);
		}
	};

	this.lightboxUpdateEmail = function(post_id, new_email) {
		var fields = Dsq.Templates.getFormFields(post_id);
		fields.email.value = new_email;
	};

	this.lightboxAuthenticate = function(post_id, auth_choice, auth_data) {
		var title, body;
		var pid = post_id ? '-' + post_id : '';

		if(typeof(auth_data) == 'undefined') {
			var auth_data = Dsq.Templates.getFormFields(post_id);
		}

		d = auth_data;

		switch(auth_choice) {
			case 'register':
				var suggestedUsername = d.name.value.replace(/[^a-zA-Z0-9-]/g,'').toLowerCase();
			
				title = Dsq.jsonData.forum.allow_anon_post ? 'Optional:' : 'Required:';
				title += ' Register a <img src="http://media.disqus.com/images/embed/disqus-profile.png" alt=Disqus Profile" />';

				body = ' \
				<ul class="dsq-lightbox-register-reasons"> \
				<li>Verify your comments</li> \
				<li>Edit and delete comments</li> \
				<li>Manage comments and replies</li> \
				</ul> \
				';

				body += ' \
				<div class="dsq-lightbox-auth-fields"> \
					<table> \
						<tr> \
							<td>Email</td> \
							<td><input type="text" value="' + d.email.value + '" onchange="Dsq.Templates.lightboxUpdateEmail(' + post_id + ', this.value)" /><div id="dsq-email-errors' + pid + '"></div></td> \
						</tr> \
						<tr> \
							<td>Username</td> \
							<td><input id="dsq-field-username' + pid + '" type="text" value="' + suggestedUsername + '"/><div id="dsq-username-errors' + pid + '"></div></td> \
						</tr> \
						<tr> \
							<td>Password</td> \
							<td><input id="dsq-field-password' + pid + '" type="password" /><div id="dsq-password-errors' + pid + '"></div></td> \
						</tr> \
					</table> \
					<div class="dsq-lightbox-switch-auth"><a href="#" onclick="Dsq.Templates.lightboxAuthenticate(' + post_id + ',\'login\'); return false">Login instead</a></div> \
				</div> \
				<div id="dsq-lightbox-errors' + pid + '" class="dsq-lightbox-errors"></div> \
				<div class="dsq-lightbox-submit"> \
					<div class="dsq-lightbox-auth-post"><button class="dsq-button" onclick="Dsq.Templates.validateAuth(this, ' + post_id + ',\'' + auth_choice + '\')">Register and Post comment</button></div>'
					+ (Dsq.jsonData.forum.allow_anon_post
						? '<div class="dsq-lightbox-auth-skip"><button class="dsq-button-small" onclick="Dsq.Templates.postComment(' + post_id + ', this, true)">Just post as a Guest</button></div>'
						: '')
				+ '</div> \
				';
				break;
			case 'login':
				title = Dsq.jsonData.forum.allow_anon_post ? 'Optional:' : 'Required:';
				title += ' Login to your <img src="http://media.disqus.com/images/embed/disqus-profile.png" alt=Disqus Profile" />';
				body = '';
				
				if(d.avatar_url) {
					body += '<div class="dsq-lightbox-recognized"><table><tr>';
					body += '<td><img src="' + d.avatar_url + '" alt="" /></td>';
					body += '<td><span class="dsq-badge ' + (d.verified ? 'dsq-badge-verified' : 'dsq-badge-registered') + '">' + (d.verified ? 'Verified' : 'Registered') + '</span></td>';
					body += '<td>Hey <strong>' + d.display_name + '</strong>, is that you? Login below to claim this comment.';
					body += '</tr></table></div>';
				}

				body += ' \
				<div class="dsq-lightbox-auth-fields"> \
					<table> \
						<tr> \
							<td>Username or Email</td> \
							<td><input id="dsq-field-username' + pid + '" type="text" value="' + (d.avatar_url ? d.username : '') + '" /></td> \
						</tr> \
						<tr> \
							<td>Password <a href="http://disqus.com/forgot" target="_blank">(cannot log in?)</a></td> \
							<td><input id="dsq-field-password' + pid + '" type="password" /></td> \
						</tr> \
					</table> \
					<div class="dsq-lightbox-switch-auth"><a href="#" onclick="Dsq.Templates.lightboxAuthenticate(' + post_id + ',\'register\'); return false">Register instead</a></div> \
				</div> \
				<div id="dsq-lightbox-errors' + pid + '" class="dsq-lightbox-errors"></div> \
				<div class="dsq-lightbox-submit"> \
					<div class="dsq-lightbox-auth-post"><button class="dsq-button" onclick="Dsq.Templates.validateAuth(this, ' + post_id + ',\'' + auth_choice + '\')">Login and Post comment</button></div>'
					+ (Dsq.jsonData.forum.allow_anon_post
						? '<div class="dsq-lightbox-auth-skip"><button class="dsq-button-small" onclick="Dsq.Templates.postComment(' + post_id + ', this, true)">Just post as a Guest</button></div>'
						: '')
				+ '</div> \
				';
				break;
			default:
				break;
		}
		Dsq.Popup.lightbox(body, title, post_id);
		Dsq.$('dsq-field-username' + pid).focus();
	};
	
	this.buttonsToRestore = [];
	this.setLoadingButton = function(btn, post_id) {
		var pid = post_id ? '-' + post_id : '';
		if (btn) {

			var loadingBtn = document.createElement('button');
			loadingBtn.id = btn.id + '-loading';
			loadingBtn.innerHTML = '<img src="http://media.disqus.com/images/loading-lite.gif" alt="" /> Just a moment...';
			loadingBtn.className = btn.className + ' dsq-post-loading';
			btn.parentNode.appendChild(loadingBtn);
			btn.style.display = 'none';
			var cancelBtn = Dsq.$('dsq-cancel-button' + pid);
			if(cancelBtn) { cancelBtn.style.display = 'none'; this.buttonsToRestore.push(cancelBtn); }
			this.buttonsToRestore.push(btn);
		} else {

			var buttons = this.buttonsToRestore;
			for(var i = 0; i < buttons.length; i++) {
				buttons[i].style.display = 'inline';
				Dsq.Utils.deleteNode(Dsq.$(buttons[i].id + '-loading'));
			}
		}
		
	};

	this.postComment = function(post_id, el_clicked, force, auth_choice) {
		var append_id = post_id ? '-' + post_id : '';
		var fields = Dsq.Templates.getFormFields(post_id);

		if (Dsq.Templates.validateFields(post_id)) {

			if (!Dsq.jsonData.request.is_authenticated && !force &&
				((!Dsq.Utils.readCookie('skipped_auth') && !disqus_skip_auth && !Dsq.jsonData.forum.disqus_auth_disabled) || !Dsq.jsonData.forum.allow_anon_post)) {
				Dsq.Templates.checkExistingUser(post_id);
				return false;
			}
			var params = [];
			if (!Dsq.jsonData.request.is_authenticated) {
				params.push(fields.name.value,
					fields.email.value,
					fields.website.value);

				if (auth_choice == 'login' || auth_choice == 'register') {
					params.push({
						auth_choice: auth_choice,
						username: fields.username.value,
						password: fields.password.value,
						email: fields.email.value
					});
				} else {
					params.push(null);
				}

				params.push(null /* sharing options */, Dsq.$('dsq-subscribe-on-post' + append_id).value);
			} else {
				var service_checked = function(name) {
					var el = Dsq.$('dsq-sharing-' + name + append_id);
					return (el !== null && el.checked === true) ? '1' : '0';
				};
				params.push(null, null, null, null, {
					tw: service_checked('twitter'),
					fb: service_checked('facebook'),
					tr: service_checked('tumblr'),
					wp: service_checked('wordpress'),
					mt: service_checked('movabletype'),
					tp: service_checked('typepad'),
					yh: service_checked('yahoo')
				});
			}

			var frame = Dsq.frames['reply_' + (post_id ? post_id : 0)];
			frame.post.apply(frame, params);

			if (el_clicked) {
				Dsq.Templates.setLoadingButton(el_clicked, post_id);
			}
			
			if (force) {
				Dsq.Utils.createCookie('skipped_auth', true);	
			}
			
		} else {
			return false;
		}
	};

	this.editComment = function(el_clicked, post_id) {
		var edited_message = Dsq.$('dsq-edit-textarea-' + post_id).value;

		Dsq.Templates.setLoadingButton(el_clicked, post_id);
		Dsq.frames['edit_' + post_id].edit(post_id, edited_message);
	};

	this.toggleEdit = function(post_id) {
		var body = Dsq.$('dsq-comment-body-' + post_id);
		var message = Dsq.$('dsq-comment-message-' + post_id);

		if (!Dsq.Post.stateEditToggled[post_id]) {


			message.style.display = 'none';
			if (Dsq.$('dsq-edit-' + post_id)) {
				Dsq.$('dsq-edit-' + post_id).style.display = 'block';
			} else {

				var edit_area = document.createElement('div');
				edit_area.id = 'dsq-edit-' + post_id;
				edit_area.className = 'dsq-edit dsq-textarea';
				edit_area.innerHTML = ' \
				<div class="dsq-textarea-wrapper"> \
					<textarea class="dsq-edit-textarea" id="dsq-edit-textarea-' + post_id + '">' + message.innerHTML + '</textarea> \
				</div> \
				<div class="dsq-save-edit"> \
					<button onclick="Dsq.Templates.editComment(this, ' + post_id + ')" class="dsq-button-small">Save Edit</button> \
				</div> \
				<div id="dsq-edit-iframe-' + post_id + '" style="display: none"></div> \
				';

				body.appendChild(edit_area);

				if (!Dsq.frames['edit_' + post_id]) {
					var _meta = Dsq.jsonData.posts[post_id];
					Dsq.frames['edit_' + post_id] = new Dsq.ReplyFrame(Dsq.$('dsq-edit-iframe-' + post_id), post_id);
					Dsq.frames['edit_' + post_id].init();
					Dsq.frames['edit_' + post_id].setState(post_id, _meta.depth);
				}
			}
		} else {

			message.style.display = 'block';
			Dsq.$('dsq-edit-' + post_id).style.display = 'none';
		}
		
		Dsq.Post.stateEditToggled[post_id] = !Dsq.Post.stateEditToggled[post_id];
	};
	
	this.edit = function(el, post_id) {

		Dsq.Templates.toggleEdit(post_id);
	};

	this.toggleReply = function(post_id, button) {
		
		if(!this.stateReplyToggled[post_id]) {

			if (Dsq.$('dsq-reply-post-' + post_id)) {
				Dsq.$('dsq-append-post-' + post_id).style.display = 'block';
			} else {
				Dsq.$('dsq-append-post-' + post_id).innerHTML = Dsq.Templates.postBox(post_id);
				var container = Dsq.$('dsq-textarea-wrapper-' + post_id);
				if (!Dsq.frames['reply_' + post_id] && container) {
					var _meta = Dsq.jsonData.posts[post_id];
					Dsq.frames['reply_' + post_id] = new Dsq.ReplyFrame(container, post_id);
					Dsq.frames['reply_' + post_id].init(function() {

						Dsq.$('dsq-append-post-' + post_id).innerHTML = Dsq.Templates.postBox(post_id, true);
						Dsq.$('dsq-form-area-' + post_id).innerHTML = '';

						var theme = (typeof disqus_frame_theme == 'undefined') ? 'default' : disqus_frame_theme;
						Dsq.Iframes.showReplyIframeInContainer(Dsq.$('dsq-form-area-' + post_id), post_id, {theme: theme});

					});
					Dsq.frames['reply_' + post_id].setState(post_id, _meta.depth);
				}
			}
			Dsq.$('dsq-append-post-' + post_id).className = 'dsq-append-post';
			Dsq.$('dsq-comment-footer-reply-' + post_id).className = 'dsq-comment-footer-reply-active';
			
		} else {

			Dsq.$('dsq-append-post-' + post_id).style.display = 'none';
			Dsq.$('dsq-append-post-' + post_id).className = '';
			Dsq.$('dsq-comment-footer-reply-' + post_id).className = 'dsq-comment-footer-reply';
		}
		
		this.stateReplyToggled[post_id] = !this.stateReplyToggled[post_id];

		if(Dsq.Utils.ie && this.stateReplyToggled[post_id]) {

		}

		Dsq.Events.fire(Dsq.Events.REPLY_IFRAME_TOGGLED, {
			postId: post_id,
			opened: this.stateReplyToggled[post_id]
		});
	};
	
	this.moderateOptions = function(post_id) {
		var _meta = Dsq.jsonData.posts[post_id];
		var userData = Dsq.jsonData['users'][_meta.user_key];
		
		if(!Dsq.jsonData.request.is_moderator && !Dsq.jsonData.request.is_global_moderator) { return false; }

		var html;
		
		html = ' \
		<div class="dsq-moderate-options"> \
		<table>'
		+ (_meta.email ? '<tr><td>Email</td><td>' + _meta.email + '</td></tr>' : '')
		+ (_meta.ip ? '<tr><td>IP address</td><td>' + _meta.ip + '</td></tr>' : '')
		+ '<tr> \
			<td>Actions</td> \
			<td><ul>'
			+ (Dsq.jsonData.request.moderator_can_edit
				? '<li><a href="#" onclick="Dsq.Post.edit(this, ' + post_id + '); Dsq.Popup._closePopup(null, true); return false;">Edit Comment</a></li>'
				: '')
			+ '<li><a href="#" onclick="Dsq.Post.removePost(' + post_id + ', 1); Dsq.Popup._closePopup(null, true); return false;">Delete Comment</a></li> \
			<li><a href="#" onclick="Dsq.Post.reportSpam(' + post_id + '); Dsq.Popup._closePopup(null, true); return false;">Mark Spam</a></li> \
			<li><a href="#" onclick="Dsq.Popup.blacklist(' + post_id + '); return false">Block User</a></li> \
			</ul></td> \
			</table> \
		</div> \
		';
		
		html += '<p>Go to the full <a href="http://disqus.com/comments/moderate/" target="_blank">moderate panel</a> for more options.</p>';
		
		return Dsq.Popup.popModal(html, 'Moderate Options', post_id);
	};
	
	this.placeholder = {
		'class': 'dsq-placeholder',
		'name': Dsq.Strings.NAME,
		'email': Dsq.Strings.EMAIL,
		'website': Dsq.Strings.WEBSITE + ' (' + Dsq.Strings.OPTIONAL.toLowerCase() + ')'
	};
	
	this.handlePlaceholder = function(evt, el, key) {
		var placeholder = Dsq.Templates.placeholder[key];
		var className = Dsq.Templates.placeholder['class'];
		
		switch(evt.type) {
			case 'focus':
				if(el.value == placeholder) {
					el.value = '';
					el.className = '';
				}
				break;

			case 'blur':
				if(el.value == '') {
					el.value = placeholder;
					el.className = className;
				}
				break;
			default:
				break;
		}
	};
	
	this.paginate = function(page, el_clicked) {

		var extra_params = '';

		if(typeof disqus_per_page != 'undefined') {
			extra_params += '&per_page=' + disqus_per_page;
		}
		if(typeof disqus_sort != 'undefined') {
			extra_params += '&sort=' + disqus_sort;
		}

		Dsq.$('dsq-pagination').innerHTML += '<img src="http://media.disqus.com/images/loading-small.gif">';
		
		if(el_clicked) {
			Dsq.Templates.setLoadingButton(el_clicked);
		}
		
		Dsq.Utils.execScript('http://disqus.com/forums/jackandjillpolitics/thread.js'
			+ '?slug='	+ 'the_autopsy_on_why_proposition_8_passed_hint_black_people_didn8217t_help_kill_it'
			+ '&p='		+ page
			+ extra_params);
	};
	
	
	this.rate = function(el, id, vote) {


		if(Dsq.jsonData.request.is_authenticated || Dsq.jsonData.forum.allow_anon_votes) {
			if(vote == 1) {
				Dsq.$('dsq-like-' + id).innerHTML = '<img src="http://media.disqus.com/images/loading-small.gif">';
			}
			Dsq.Utils.execScript('http://disqus.com/forums/jackandjillpolitics/vote.js'
				+ '?post_id='    + id
				+ '&vote='        + vote);
		} else {
			Dsq.Popup.login('To rate, please log in');
		}
	};

	this.voted = function(post_id, points, vote) {

		Dsq.$('dsq-like-pts-' + post_id).innerHTML = points + Dsq.Utils.pluralize(points, ' person', ' people') + ' liked this.';

		if(vote) {
			Dsq.$('dsq-like-' + post_id).innerHTML = 'You liked this.&nbsp;&nbsp;';
		}
	};




	this.postComment_onSuccess = function(response, parent_post_id, post_id) {
		var approved = response.message.post_meta.approved;

		if (parent_post_id) {
			Dsq.Post.toggleReply(parent_post_id);
		}

		Dsq.Popup._closePopup(null, true);
		
		if (approved) {
			Dsq.Post.incrementPostCount();
			Dsq.Post.outlineComment(post_id);
		} else {			
			var unapproved_msg = 'Thanks for posting!\
	 Your comment must be approved by a moderator before appearing here.\
			';
			Dsq.Popup.popModal(unapproved_msg, 'Comment awaiting approval', post_id);
		}

		var sharing_results = response.message.sharing_results;
		var sharing_errors = '';
		for (var service in sharing_results) {
			if (sharing_results.hasOwnProperty(service) === true) {
				if (sharing_results[service].error === true) {
					sharing_errors += service + ', ';
				}
			}
		}

		if (sharing_results.facebook && sharing_results.facebook.callback) {
			FB.ensureInit(function() {
				FB.Connect.streamPublish('', sharing_results.facebook.attachment);
			});
		}

		if (sharing_errors !== '') {
			var message = 'Your comment was posted, but there were errors sharing with the following connections: ';
			message += sharing_errors.replace(/,\s$/, '');
			message += '<p><a href="' + Dsq.jsonData.settings.disqus_url + '/profile/connections" target="_blank">Configure your connections here</a></p>'
			Dsq.Popup.popModal(message, 'Sharing options');
		}

		Dsq.Templates.setLoadingButton(false);
	};

	this.postComment_onFailure = function(response, parent_post_id, post_id) {

		Dsq.Templates.setLoadingButton(false);
	};
};




// TODO: It might be faster to use string methods to find all <li (...) </li> blocks and pass to Dsq.PostHandler manually.
Dsq.CommentsHandler = function(str, head, post_id, content, tail, offset, s) {
	var prepend_post = Dsq.Templates.prependPost(post_id);
	var append_post = Dsq.Templates.appendPost(post_id);

	content = content.replace(Dsq.POST_RE, Dsq.PostHandler);
	Dsq.Templates.postLoopCounter++;
	head = Dsq.Templates.Filters.commentContainer(post_id, head);
	return prepend_post + head + content + tail + append_post;
};

Dsq.PostHandler = function(str, h_head, post_id, h_content, h_tail, b_head, b_content, b_tail, offset, s) {
	var prepend_header = Dsq.Templates.postPrependHeader(post_id);
	var append_header = Dsq.Templates.postAppendHeader(post_id);
	var prepend_body = Dsq.Templates.preBody(post_id);
	var append_body = Dsq.Templates.postBody(post_id);
	var append_footer = Dsq.Templates.postFooter(post_id);

	b_content = b_content.replace(Dsq.POST_BODY_RE, Dsq.PostBodyHandler);
	return h_head + prepend_header + h_content + append_header + h_tail + b_head + prepend_body + b_content + append_body + b_tail + append_footer;
};

Dsq.PostBodyHandler = function(str, head, post_id, content, tail, offset, s) {
	content = Dsq.Templates.Filters.commentContent(post_id, content);
	return head + content + tail;
};

Dsq.MediaPostHandler = function(str, args, offset, s) {
	args = args.split(' ');
	if(args[0] == 'seesmic') {
		return '<br />' + Dsq.Templates.mediaSeesmic(args[1], args[2]);
	}
	return '';
};


/**
 * Shorcuts
 */
Dsq.$ = function(element) { return document.getElementById(element); };
Dsq.$b = document.body || document.getElementsByTagName('body')[0];


/**
 * Dsq.Debug: Logging functions.
 */

Dsq.Debug = new function() {this.log=function(s){};this.profile=function(f){if(typeof f == 'function')return f();else return eval(f);};};


/**
 * Dsq.Urls: URL paths
 */
Dsq.Urls = new function() {
	this.LOGIN = '/profile/login/';
	this.LOGOUT = '/logout/';
	this.REPLY = 'http://jackandjillpolitics.disqus.com/the_autopsy_on_why_proposition_8_passed_hint_black_people_didn8217t_help_kill_it/reply.html';
	this.REQUEST_USER_PROFILE = '/AnonymousUser/';
	this.REQUEST_USER_AVATAR = 'http://media.disqus.com/images/noavatar92.png';
};
// Dsq.Urls

/**
 * Dsq.Validators: Validation for form fields
 */
Dsq.Validators = new function() {
	this.VALID_EMAIL_RE = /^[a-z0-9\-\_\+]+(\.[a-z0-9\-\_\+]+)*\@(([a-z0-9\-\_\+]+(\.[a-z0-9\-\_\+]+)*)+\.[a-z]{2,}|([0-9]+\.){3}[0-9]+)$/i;
	this.name = function(name) {
		var error = false;

		if(typeof Dsq.Templates.placeholder !== 'undefined' &&
		   name == Dsq.Templates.placeholder.name) {
			error = true;
		}
		if(name.length <= 1) {
			error = true;
		}

		if(error) {
			return "Please enter a name to comment.";
		} else {
			return true;
		}
	};
	this.email = function(addr) {
		if(Dsq.Validators.VALID_EMAIL_RE.test(addr)) {
			return true;
		} else {
			return "Please enter a valid email to comment.";
		}
	};
	this.url = function(addr) {
		if(!addr || addr.indexOf('.') != -1) {
			return true;
		} else {
			return "Please check your website URL (this field is optional).";
		}
	};

	this.validate = function(bulk_validation, failure_callback) {
		failure_callback = failure_callback || function(e){ alert(e); };

		for(var i = 0; i < bulk_validation.length; i++) {
			v = bulk_validation[i];
			ret = v.validator(v.value);
			if(ret !== true) {
				failure_callback(ret);
				return false;
			}
		}
		return true;
	};
};

/**
 * Dsq.Utils: Generic utility functions.
 */
Dsq.Utils = new function() {
	this.ie = /msie/i.test(navigator.userAgent) && !/opera/i.test(navigator.userAgent);
	this.ie7 = (document.all && !window.opera && window.XMLHttpRequest) ? true : false;
	this.ie6 = (!window.XMLHttpRequest) ? true: false;
	this.webkit = navigator.userAgent.indexOf('AppleWebKit/') >= 0;
	this.gebiFromElementCollectionCache = {};
	this._styleSheet = null;

	this.gebiFromElement = function(el, id, tag) {
		// This only method only helps IE.
		if(!this.ie) {
			return Dsq.$(id);
		} else {
			var cacheKey = el.id + '-' + tag;
			tag = tag || 'div';
			if(typeof this.gebiFromElementCollectionCache[cacheKey] != 'undefined') {
				collection = this.gebiFromElementCollectionCache[cacheKey];
			} else {
				collection = el.getElementsByTagName(tag);
				this.gebiFromElementCollectionCache[cacheKey] = collection;
			}

			for(var i = 0; i < collection.length; i++) {
				if(collection[i].id == id) {
					return collection[i];
				}
			}
			return null;
		}
	};

	this.execOnReady = function(func) {
		var node = document.createElement('document:ready');
		try {
			node.doScroll('left');
			func();
			node = null;
		} catch(err) {
			setTimeout(function() { Dsq.Utils.execOnReady(func); }, 10);
		}
	};


	// Courtesy of http://www.quirksmode.org/js/cookies.html
	this.createCookie = function(name,value,days) {
		if (days) {
			var date = new Date();
			date.setTime(date.getTime()+(days*24*60*60*1000));
			var expires = "; expires="+date.toGMTString();
		}
		else var expires = "";
		document.cookie = name+"="+value+expires+"; path=/";
	};

	this.readCookie = function(name) {
		var nameEQ = name + "=";
		var ca = document.cookie.split(';');
		for(var i=0;i < ca.length;i++) {
			var c = ca[i];
			while (c.charAt(0)==' ') c = c.substring(1,c.length);
			if (c.indexOf(nameEQ) == 0) return c.substring(nameEQ.length,c.length);
		}
		return null;
	};

	this.eraseCookie = function(name) {
		Dsq.Utils.createCookie(name,"",-1);
	};

	this.deleteNode = function(node) {
		if(node) {
			this.deleteChildren(node);
			if(typeof node.outerHTML != 'undefined') { node.outerHTML = ''; }
			else if(node.parentNode) { node.parentNode.removeChild(node); }
			delete node;
		}
	};

	this.deleteChildren = function(node) {
		if(node) {
			for(var x = node.childNodes.length-1; x >= 0; x--) {
				var childNode = node.childNodes[x];
				if(childNode.hasChildNodes()) { this.deleteChildren(childNode); }
				if(typeof childNode.outerHTML != 'undefined') { childNode.outerHTML = ''; }
				else node.removeChild(childNode);
				delete childNode;
			}
		}
	};

	this.findPos = function(obj) {
		var curleft = 0;
		var curtop = 0;
		if (obj.offsetParent) {
			do {
				curleft += obj.offsetLeft;
				curtop += obj.offsetTop;
			} while (obj = obj.offsetParent);
		}
		return [curleft,curtop];
	};

	this.getWindowSize = function() {
		var windowWidth = -1;
		var windowHeight = -1;

		if(typeof(window.innerWidth) == 'number') { //Non-IE
			windowWidth = window.innerWidth;
			windowHeight = window.innerHeight;
		} else if(document.documentElement) { // IE 6+ in 'standards compliant mode'
			windowWidth = document.documentElement.clientWidth || document.body.clientWidth;
			windowHeight = document.documentElement.clientHeight || document.body.clientHeight;
		}

		return [windowWidth, windowHeight];
	}

	this.getScrollPos = function() {
		var scrollWidth, scrollTop;

		if(document.documentElement && (document.documentElement.scrollTop || document.documentElement.scrollWidth)) {
			scrollWidth = document.documentElement.scrollWidth;
			// IE is weird here.  If no doctype is provided, document.body.scrollTop is 0,
			// otherwise document.documentElement.scrollTop is 0.
			scrollTop = document.documentElement.scrollTop || document.body.scrollTop;
		} else if(document.body.scrollTop && document.body.scrollWidth) {
			scrollWidth = document.body.scrollWidth;
			scrollTop = document.body.scrollTop;
		}

		return [scrollWidth, scrollTop];
	}

	this.addEventListener = function(instance, eventName, listener) {
		var listenerFn = listener;
		if (instance.addEventListener) {
			instance.addEventListener(eventName, listenerFn, false);
		} else if (instance.attachEvent) {
			listenerFn = function() {
				listener(window.event);
			};
			instance.attachEvent("on" + eventName, listenerFn);
		} else {
			throw new Error("Event registration not supported");
		}
		return {
			instance: instance,
			name: eventName,
			listener: listenerFn
		};
	};

	this.removeEventListener = function(event) {
		var instance = event.instance;
		if (instance.removeEventListener) {
			instance.removeEventListener(event.name, event.listener, false);
		} else if (instance.detachEvent) {
			instance.detachEvent("on" + event.name, event.listener);
		}
	};

	this.fixIframesIE = function(id) {
		var disqusThread = Dsq.$(disqus_container_id);
		var iframes = disqusThread.getElementsByTagName('iframe');

		if(id) {
			var container = Dsq.$(id);
		} else {
			var container = Dsq.$('dsq-content');
		}

		for(i = 0; i < iframes.length; i++) {
			if (container) {
				iframes[i].style.width = container.offsetWidth;
			}
		}
	};

	this.getElementsByClassName = function(oElm, strTagName, strClassName) {
	/* Credit: Jonathan Snook [http://www.snook.ca/jonathan], Robert Nyman [http://www.robertnyman.com] */
		var arrElements = (strTagName == "*" && oElm.all)? oElm.all : oElm.getElementsByTagName(strTagName);
		var arrReturnElements = new Array();
		strClassName = strClassName.replace(/\-/g, "\\-");
		var oRegExp = new RegExp("(^|\\s)" + strClassName + "(\\s|$)");
		var oElement;
		for(var i = 0; i < arrElements.length; i++) {
			oElement = arrElements[i];
			if(oRegExp.test(oElement.className)) {
				arrReturnElements.push(oElement);
			}
		}
		return (arrReturnElements);
	};

	this.postToUrl = function(url, post_data, opt_redirect) {
		var form = document.createElement('form');
		var iframe_container = document.createElement('div');
		var id = 'dsq-temp-iframe-' + (new Date()).getTime();

		form.method = 'POST';
		form.action = url;
		if (!opt_redirect) {
			form.target = id;
		}
		iframe_container.innerHTML = '<iframe style="display:none" name="' + id + '" id="' + id + '"></iframe>';

		for(var key in post_data) {
			if(post_data.hasOwnProperty(key)) {
				var input = document.createElement('input');
				input.name = key;
				input.type = 'hidden';
				input.value = post_data[key];

				form.appendChild(input);
			}
		}

		Dsq.$b.appendChild(iframe_container);
		Dsq.$b.appendChild(form);
		form.submit();
	};

	// Strips integer id from id of element in the form ('some-id-###')
	this.extractId = function(e) {
		var chunks = e.id.split('-');
		if(chunks.length <= 1) {
			return 0;
		} else {
			return parseInt(chunks[chunks.length-1]);
		}
	};

	this.getStyle = function(el, styleProp) {
		if(el.currentStyle) {
			var y = el.currentStyle[styleProp];
		} else if(window.getComputedStyle) {
			var y = document.defaultView.getComputedStyle(el, null).getPropertyValue(styleProp);
		}

		if(y == 'transparent' || y == '') {
			this.getStyle(el.parentNode, styleProp);
		} else {
			return y;
		}
	};

	this.execScript = function(url, append_qs, container) {
		var script = document.createElement('script');
		append_qs = typeof append_qs == 'undefined' ? true : append_qs;
		container = container || Dsq.container;

		if(append_qs) {
			var j = (url.indexOf('?') >= 0) ? '&' : '?';
			url += j + (new Date()).getTime();
		}
		script.type = 'text/javascript';
		script.charset = 'UTF-8';
		script.src = url;
		container.appendChild(script);
		return script;
	};

	this.pluralize = function(num, singular, plural) {
		return (num != 1) ? plural || 's' : singular || '';
	};

	this.getRequestParams = function(queryString /* optional */) {
		var pairs, tuple;
		var params = {};

		queryString = queryString || window.location.search.substring(1);
		pairs = queryString.split('&');

		for (var i = 0, pair; pair = pairs[i]; i++) {
			tuple = pair.split('=');
			params[tuple[0]] = (tuple[1] || true);
		}

		return params;
	};

	this.addCssRule = function(selector, styleText, index) {
		var stylesheet;
		index = index || 0;

		if(!this._styleSheet) {
			var styleEl = document.createElement('style');
			document.getElementsByTagName('head')[0].appendChild(styleEl);
			this._styleSheet = styleEl.sheet;
			if(!this._styleSheet) {
				// IE does not like our newly created stylesheet.
				this._styleSheet = document.styleSheets[document.styleSheets.length-1];
			}
		}
		stylesheet = this._styleSheet;

		if(stylesheet.insertRule) {
			var ruleText = selector + ' { ' + styleText + ' }';
			if(index == -1) {
				index = stylesheet.cssRules.length;
			}
			stylesheet.insertRule(ruleText, index);
		} else if(stylesheet.addRule) {
			stylesheet.addRule(selector, styleText, index);
		}
	};

	this.forEachIn = function(obj, callback) {
		for(var key in obj) {
			if(obj.hasOwnProperty(key)) {
				callback(key, obj[key]);
			}
		}
	};

	this._interpolateGlobalContext = {
		// values that get used a lot and are global to the request
		'profile_url': Dsq.Urls.REQUEST_USER_PROFILE,

		'disqus_url': Dsq.jsonData.settings.disqus_url,
		'media_url': Dsq.jsonData.settings.media_url,
		'request_username': Dsq.jsonData.request.username,
		'request_display_username': Dsq.jsonData.request.display_username,
		'forum_name': Dsq.jsonData.forum.name
	};

	this.renderFromContextStack = function(key, contexts) {
		// Returns the first instance of `key` in the array of objects `contexts` or else ''
		for (var i=0; i<contexts.length; i++) {
			if (contexts[i][key] !== undefined) {
				return String(contexts[i][key]);
			}
		}
		throw new Error('key ' + key + ' not found in context');
	};

	var that = this;
	this.interpolate = function(fmt, opt_localContext) {
		// Interpolate `fmt` named-format string with an assumed global context.
		// Based on `interpolate` in django.views.i18n
		var contextStack = [opt_localContext || {}, that._interpolateGlobalContext];
		return fmt.replace(/%\(\w+\)s/g, function(match){
			return that.renderFromContextStack(match.slice(2,-2), contextStack);
		});
	};

	this.stripTags = function(s) {
		// Removes HTML tags from `s`
		return s.replace(/(<([^>]+)>)/g,"");

	};

	this.assert = function(b) {
		if (!b) {
			throw new Error('Assertion error.');
		}
	};

};
// Dsq.Utils

/**
 * Dsq.Popup: Popup helper functions.
 */
Dsq.Popup = new function() {
	this.timeHide = new Array();
	this.timeShow = new Array();
	this.activePopup = {};
	this.profileCache = {};
	this.statusCache = {};

	this.showTimer = function(post_id) {
		// clear the hide timer
		clearTimeout(this.timeHide[post_id]);

		// start the timer
		if(!Dsq.Popup.profileIsOn && !Dsq.Thread.adminIsOn) {
			this.timeShow[post_id] = setTimeout("Dsq.Popup.popProfile(\"" + post_id + "\")", 400);
		}
	};

	this.hideTimer = function(post_id) {
		// clear the show timer
		clearTimeout(this.timeShow[post_id]);
	};

	this.updateProfile = function(username) {
		// Callback from /embed/profile.js
		if (this.statusCache[username]) {
			var statusEl = Dsq.$('dsq-profile-status-' + username);
			statusEl.innerHTML = this.statusCache[username];
			statusEl.style.display = 'block';
		}

		if (this.profileCache[username]) {
			var _cache = this.profileCache[username];

			var _genhtml = function(text) { return '<span><big>' + text + '</big></span>'; };
			var _no_comments = _genhtml(Dsq.FmtStrings.NUMBER_OF_COMMENTS(_cache.comments_count));
			var _no_likes = _genhtml(Dsq.FmtStrings.NUMBER_OF_LIKES(_cache.likes_count));
			var _no_points = _genhtml(Dsq.FmtStrings.NUMBER_OF_POINTS(_cache.points));

			var statsEl = Dsq.$('dsq-popup-profile-user-stats-' + username);
			statsEl.innerHTML = '';

			if (Dsq.jsonData.users[username].registered) {
				statsEl.innerHTML = _no_comments + _no_likes;
			}
			statsEl.innerHTML += _no_points;

			var activeSites = '';
			for (var i = 0; i < _cache.active_sites.length; i++) {
				var site = _cache.active_sites[i];
				activeSites += '<li><a href="' + site.url + '"> \
					<img src="' + site.favicon + '"/ width="16" height="16"/></a>\
					<a href="' + site.url + '">' + site.name + '</a></li>';
			}
			if (activeSites !== '') {
				Dsq.$('dsq-popup-profile-active-sites-' + username).innerHTML = activeSites;
			} else {
				Dsq.$('dsq-popup-profile-active-sites-' + username).innerHTML = 'This site.';
			}

			var moderatedSites = '';
			for (var i = 0; i < _cache.moderated_sites.length; i++) {
				var site = _cache.moderated_sites[i];
				moderatedSites += '<li><a href="' + site.url + '"> \
					<img src="' + site.favicon + '"/ width="16" height="16"/></a>\
					<a href="' + site.url + '">' + site.name + '</a></li>';
			}
			if (moderatedSites !== '') {
				Dsq.$('dsq-popup-profile-moderated-' + username).innerHTML = moderatedSites;
			} else {
				Dsq.$('dsq-popup-profile-moderated-wrapper-' + username).innerHTML = '';
			}
		}

		// Reposition popup after full HTML is rendered
		if(Dsq.Popup.activePopup && Dsq.Popup.activePopup.el) {
			Dsq.Popup.initPopup(Dsq.Popup.activePopup.el, Dsq.Popup.activePopup.id, Dsq.Popup.activePopup.type);
		}

	};

	this.showCookieMsgs = function() {
		var title = '';
		var message = '';
		var numAlerts = 0;

		Dsq.Utils.forEachIn(Dsq.jsonData.cookie_messages, function(k, v) {
			if (!v) return;

			switch(k) {
				// Cookie: Twitter
				case 'post_twitter':
					if (v === 'error') {
						title = 'Twitter Error!';
						message += '<li id="dsq-msg-twitter-error">Oops, we couldn\'t tweet this comment. Please check your <a href="http://disqus.com/account/services">account settings</a>.</li>';
					} else {
						var _msg = v.split(':');
						title = 'Tweeted!';
						message += '<li id="dsq-msg-twitter-success">Your comment was successfully tweeted. <a href="http://twitter.com/' + _msg[0] + '/status/' + _msg[1] + '">Click here to view the tweet</a>.</li>';
					}
					break;
				// Cookie: Unapproved Post
				case 'post_not_approved':
					title = 'Comment awaiting approval by a moderator';
					message += '<li id="dsq-msg-post-not-approved">Your comment must be approved by a moderator before appearing here.</li>';
					break;
				// Cookie: Profile Found
				case 'post_has_profile':
					title = 'Use your existing commenter profile';
					message += '<li id="dsq-msg-post-has-profile">You have just posted your commment as a <span class="dsq-badge-guest">Guest</span>, but you may already have a <span class="logo-disqus">Disqus</span> Profile.<br /><br /><a href="http://disqus.com/claim">Log in and claim this comment!</a></li>';
					break;
				case 'user_created':
					var _data = v.split(':');
					title = 'Profile created!';
					message += '<li id="dsq-msg-user-created">You have just created a <span class="logo-disqus">Disqus</span> Profile, the best way to claim, manage, and track your comments all over the web. \
					<br /><br />A confirmation is being sent to <strong>' + _data[1] + '</strong>. Please check for this email in order to verify your profile. \
					<ul class="dsq-list-tick"> \
						<li>Your username is <strong>' + _data[0] +'</strong>. <a href="http://disqus.com/people/' + _data[0] + '/" target="_blank">Click here to view your public profile</a>.</li> \
						<li>Be sure to set your profile picture, as well as connect your <span class="dsq-badge-facebook">Facebook</span> and <span class="dsq-badge-twitter">Twitter</span> accounts. <a href="http://disqus.com/account/" target="_blank">Click here for account settings</a>.</li> \
					</ul> \
					</li>'
					break;
				default:
					break;
			}
			numAlerts++;
		});

		if(numAlerts > 1) {
			message = '<ul class="dsq-list-bluebullet">' + message;
			message += '</ul>';
			title = 'Thanks for posting!';
		}
		if(numAlerts > 0) {
			if(typeof(disqus_cookie_msgs) == 'function') {
				disqus_cookie_msgs(message, title);
			} else {
				Dsq.Popup.popModal(message, title);
			}
		}
	};

	this.helpBadges = function(post_id) {
		var html = ' \
			<ul class="dsq-popup-help"> \
				<li><span class="dsq-badge dsq-badge-verified">Verified</span> has a <span class="logo-disqus">Disqus</span> Profile with a confirmed email address.</li> \
				<li><span class="dsq-badge dsq-badge-registered">Registered</span> has a <span class="logo-disqus">Disqus</span> Profile, but has not yet confirmed his or her email address.</li> \
				<li><span class="dsq-badge dsq-badge-guest">Guest</span> is not logged in with any account and has not claimed his or her comments.</li> \
				<li class="dsq-help-otheraccts">Other accounts</li> \
				<li><span class="dsq-badge dsq-badge-facebook">Facebook</span> is using his or her Facebook profile via Facebook Connect.</li> \
				<li><span class="dsq-badge dsq-badge-twitter">Twitter</span> is using his or her Twitter profile via Twitter Sign-in.</li> \
				<li><span class="dsq-badge dsq-badge-openid">OpenID</span> is using his or her OpenID.</li> \
			</ul> \
		';

		this.popModal(html, 'Help: Types of Commenters', post_id);
		return;
	};

	this.permalink = function(post_id) {
		var header = 'Link to this comment';
		var body = '<strong>You are anchored to</strong>:<br />' + document.location.protocol + '//' + document.location.host + document.location.pathname + document.location.search + '#comment-' + post_id;

		this.popModal(body, header, post_id);
	};

	this.login = function(header, body) {
		var h = header || 'Login or Register';
		var b = body || '';
		b += Dsq.Templates.frameLogin({id: 'dsq-popup-login'});
		b += '</iframe>'; // HACK: Sometimes there is something funky with the IFRAME SRC that causes no end tag
		this.popModal(b, h, null, true, 'dsq-popup-login');
	};

	this.blacklist = function(id) {
		var _meta = Dsq.jsonData.posts[id];
		var userData = Dsq.jsonData['users'][_meta.user_key];
		var title = 'Add to Blacklist';
		var message = ' \
		Adding this person to the blacklist will block him or her from commenting on this site. Check the following types that you would like to add to the blacklist:'
		+ (userData['registered'] ?
			'<div class="dsq-blacklist-option"> \
				<input id="dsq-blacklist-username" type="checkbox" checked> \
				<label for="dsq-blacklist-username"><strong>Username</strong>: ' + userData['username'] + '</label> \
			</div>'
			: '')
		+ (_meta.email ?
			'<div class="dsq-blacklist-option"> \
				<input id="dsq-blacklist-email" type="checkbox" checked> \
				<label for="dsq-blacklist-email"><strong>Email address</strong>: ' + _meta.email + '</label> \
			</div>'
			: '')
		+ '<div class="dsq-blacklist-option"> \
			<input id="dsq-blacklist-ip" type="checkbox" onclick="Dsq.$(\'dsq-blacklist-ip-warning\').style.display=\'block\'"> \
			<label for="dsq-blacklist-ip"><strong>IP address</strong>: ' + _meta.ip + '</label> \
		</div> \
		';

		message += ' \
			<p id="dsq-blacklist-ip-warning" style="display:none">	\
				Note: Blocking this person\'s IP address may also unintentionally prevent others, who share his/her IP address, from commenting on this site. \
				This may include people who are sharing the same computer, living in the same house, or using the same Internet provider. Only block an IP address as a last resort. \
			</p> \
		';

		message += ' \
			<p style="text-align:center"><button onclick="Dsq.Post.blockUser(' + id + '); this.disabled=true; this.innerHTML=\'Just one moment...\'">Add to Blacklist</button></p> \
		';

		Dsq.Popup.popModal(message, title);
	};

	this.remoteAccountSettings = function() {
		var body = '';
		// Set up IFrame.
		var params = {};
		var base_url = 'http://disqus.com/forums/jackandjillpolitics/_auth/embed/remote_settings/';
		var attributes = {id: 'dsq-popup-account-settings'};
		if (typeof disqus_frame_theme != 'undefined') {
			params['theme'] = disqus_frame_theme;
		}

		body = Dsq.Templates._frameGeneric(base_url, params, attributes);
		this.popModal(body, 'Account Settings', null, true, 'dsq-popup-account-settings');
	};

	this.popModal = function(message, title, post_id, use_listener, extra_classes) {
		var container = document.createElement('div');
		var header, body;

		Dsq.Popup._closePopup(null, true);

		if(typeof(title) == 'undefined') { title = ''; }
		if(typeof(use_listener) == 'undefined') { use_listener = true; }

		if(post_id) {
			container.id = 'dsq-popup-message-' + post_id;
		} else {
			container.id = 'dsq-popup-message';
		}

		header = title;
		body = message;

		container.innerHTML = Dsq.Templates.popupModal(header, body);
		Dsq.Popup.initPopup(container, post_id, 'message', extra_classes);
		if(use_listener) {
			Dsq.Popup.popupListener = Dsq.Utils.addEventListener(document, 'mouseup', Dsq.Popup._closePopup);
		}
	};

	this.popAlert = this.popModal;

	this.loading = function(post_id) {
		var title = Dsq.Strings.JUST_A_MOMENT;
		var body = '<div style="text-align:center; padding: 5px 0 10px 0"><img src="http://media.disqus.com/images/loading.gif" alt="" /></div>'
		Dsq.Popup.lightbox(body, title, post_id);
	};

	this.lightbox = function(message, title, post_id) {
		// Wraps Dsq.Popup.popModal

		var overlay = document.createElement('div');
		overlay.id = 'dsq-overlay';
		overlay.className = 'dsq-overlay';
		Dsq.$b.appendChild(overlay);
		
		Dsq.Popup.popModal(message, title, post_id, false, 'dsq-lightbox');
	};

	this.popProfile = function(post_id, userKey) {
		var post = Dsq.jsonData['posts'][post_id];
		if (post && post.has_been_anonymized) {
			Dsq.Popup.popModal('This message was anonymized by its previous owner.', 'Anonymized', post_id);
			return;
		}

		if(post_id) {
			userKey = Dsq.jsonData['posts'][post_id].user_key;	
		}
		var userData = Dsq.jsonData['users'][userKey];
		var elId = 'dsq-popup-profile-' + userKey;
		var container = document.createElement('div');

		if(this.activePopup.el) {
			this._closePopup(null, true);
			if(this.activePopup.linkClicked) {
				this.activePopup.linkClicked = false;
				return;
			}
		}

		container.id = elId;
		container.innerHTML = Dsq.Templates.popupProfile(userKey);

		this.initPopup(container, post_id, 'profile');
		this.popupListener = Dsq.Utils.addEventListener(document, 'mouseup', this._closePopup);

		if(!this.profileCache[userKey]) {
			Dsq.Utils.execScript('http://disqus.com/embed/profile.js'
				+ '?username=' + userKey
				+ '&anon=' + (userData['registered'] ? 0 : 1)
				+ '&f=' + Dsq.jsonData['request'].forum);
		} else {
			this.updateProfile(userKey);
		}
	};

	this._closePopup = function(e, force) {
		var activePopup = Dsq.Popup.activePopup.el;
		var id = Dsq.Popup.activePopup.id;
		var link = 'dsq-avatar-' + id; // HACK: Specific to profile toggle target

		// HACK: This event should be gone if there is no active popup.
		if(!activePopup) {
			return;
		}
		if(force || !Dsq.Popup.isClicked(e, activePopup.id)) {
			// TODO: This is breaking iE?
			if(Dsq.Popup.popupListener) {
				Dsq.Utils.removeEventListener(Dsq.Popup.popupListener);
			}
			
			// Kill overlay
			var overlay = Dsq.$('dsq-overlay');
			if(overlay) { Dsq.Utils.deleteNode(overlay); }
			
			try {
				Dsq.Utils.deleteNode(activePopup);
			} catch(e) {
				// HACK: IE6 throws an error when using deleteNode() with a node containing a <table> in the html.
				activePopup.parentNode.removeChild(activePopup);
			}
			Dsq.Popup.activePopup = {};
		}

		if(!force && Dsq.Popup.isClicked(e, link)) {
 			Dsq.Popup.activePopup.linkClicked = true;
		}

	};

	this.initPopup = function(popup, post_id, type, extra_classes) {
		popup.className = 'dsq-popup dsq-popup-' + type + ' ' + (extra_classes ? extra_classes : '');
		if(Dsq.Utils.ie6 || Dsq.Utils.ie7) {
			// HACK: We can't modify the body before it's ready, so we need
			//       to use an IE-safe "DOMReady" workaround before loading
			//       our popup.
			Dsq.Utils.execOnReady(function() {Dsq.$b.appendChild(popup); });
		} else {
			Dsq.$b.appendChild(popup);
		}

		popup.style.display = 'block';

		var xPos = (Dsq.Utils.getWindowSize()[0] - popup.offsetWidth) / 2;
		var yPos = (Dsq.Utils.getWindowSize()[1] - popup.offsetHeight) / 2;

		if(Dsq.Utils.ie6) {
			yPos += Dsq.Utils.getScrollPos()[1];
		}

		popup.style.left = xPos + 'px';
		popup.style.top = yPos + 'px';

		Dsq.Popup.activePopup = {
			'el' : popup,
			'id' : post_id,
			'type': type,
			'linkClicked' : false
		};
	};

	this.isClicked = function(e, id) {
		var t = e.target || e.srcElement;
		while(t && t.parentNode) {
			if(t.id == id) {
				return true;
			}

			t = t.parentNode;
		}
		return false;
	};
};
// Dsq.Popup

/**
 * Dsq.Templates
 */
Dsq.Templates = new function() {
	/*
	 * Counter keeping track of the number of posts iterated over.
	 */
	this.postLoopCounter = 0;
	this.filters = {};
	this.addPostContainer = 'dsq-post-add';
	this.textareaContainer = 'dsq-post-add';

	this.registerTemplate = function(name, func) {
		this['$$_' + name] = func;

		if(typeof DsqLocal.Filters != 'undefined'
		&& typeof DsqLocal.Filters[name] == 'function') {
			// Push filters to this.filters to unify code.
			this.filters[name] = this.filters[name] || [];
			this.filters[name].push(DsqLocal.Filters[name]);
		}

		this[name] = function() {
			var ret;

			if(typeof DsqLocal.Templates != 'undefined'
			&& typeof DsqLocal.Templates[name] == 'function') {
				ret = DsqLocal.Templates[name].apply(this, arguments);
			}

			if(ret === undefined) {
				ret = this['$$_' + name].apply(this, arguments);
			}

			if(this.filters[name]) {
				var args = [ret];

				args.push.apply(args, arguments);
				for(var i = 0; i < this.filters[name].length; i++) {
					ret = this.filters[name][i].apply(this, args);
				}
			}

			return ret;
		};
	};

	this.registerFilter = function(name, func) {
		this.filters[name] = this.filters[name] || [];
		this.filters[name].push(func);
	};

	/**
	 * Dsq.Templates.Filters
	 */
	this.Filters = new function() {
		this.commentContainer = function(post_id, s) {
			var _meta = Dsq.jsonData.posts[post_id];
			var classes = [];
			if(Dsq.jsonData.request.page > 1) {
				classes.push('dsq-append');
			}

			//
			// Extra classes used for custom themes
			//

			if(_meta.depth) {
				classes.push('dsq-comment-child', 'dsq-depth-' + _meta.depth, 'dsq-parent-is-' + _meta.parent_post_id);
			}


			//

			if(_meta.author_is_creator) {
				// TODO: We need to deprecate the "special" class since it is not properly prefixed.
				classes.push('special', 'dsq-special');
			}
			if(_meta.author_is_moderator) {
				classes.push('dsq-moderator');
			}
			classes.push(['dsq-odd', 'dsq-even'][Dsq.Templates.postLoopCounter % 2]);

			s = s.substring(0, s.lastIndexOf('>'));
			return s + ' class="dsq-comment ' + classes.join(' ') + '" style="margin-left:' + _meta.depth*30 + 'px">';
		};

		this.commentContent = function(post_id, s) {
			var _meta = Dsq.jsonData.posts[post_id];
			if (_meta.killed) {
				return '<em>Comment removed.</em>';
			} else if (!_meta.approved) {
				return '<em>This comment was flagged for review.</em>';
			}

			s = s.replace(Dsq.MEDIA_POST_RE, Dsq.MediaPostHandler);
			return s;
		};
	};

	//
	// Thread
	//
	// TODO: These need to be stripped of all Django template tags.

	this.authPost = function() {
		if (!Dsq.jsonData.context.show_reply) {
			return '';
		}
		var result = [];
		result = result.concat([
				'<div id="dsq-auth"',
						Dsq.jsonData.integration.reply_position ? 'class="dsq-auth-bottom"' : '',
						'>',
					'<div class="dsq-by">',
						'<a href="http://disqus.com" target="_blank">',
							(Dsq.jsonData.integration.disqus_logo ?
								Dsq.Utils.interpolate('<img src="%(media_url)s/images/embed/by-disqus.png" alt="discussion by DISQUS">') :
								Dsq.Utils.interpolate('<img src="%(media_url)s/images/embed/dsq-button-120x19.png" alt="discussion by DISQUS">')
							),
						'</a>',
					'</div>',
					'<div class="dsq-auth-header">',
						'<h3 id="dsq-add-new-comment" class="dsq-h3-addcomment">',
								Dsq.Strings.ADD_NEW_COMMENT,
						'</h3>',
						'<div id="dsq-login">',
						(!Dsq.jsonData.request.is_authenticated && Dsq.jsonData.forum.allow_anon_post
								? '<p class="dsq-login-message" id="dsq-login-message">You are commenting as a <a class="dsq-help" title="Click for more information" href="#" onclick="Dsq.Popup.helpBadges(); return false">Guest</a>. You may select one to log into:</p>'
								: '')
		]);
		if (!Dsq.jsonData.request.is_authenticated) {
			result = result.concat([
							Dsq.Utils.interpolate(
								'<a id="dsq-login-toggle" href="%(disqus_url)s%(login_url)s?next=article:%(thread_id)s" onclick="Dsq.Popup.login(); return false"><img class="dsq-login-icon" src="%(media_url)s/images/dsq-profile-btn.png" title="%(log_into)s" alt="%(log_into)s"/></a>',
								{login_url: Dsq.Urls.LOGIN, thread_id: Dsq.jsonData.thread.id, log_into: Dsq.Strings.LOG_INTO_DISQUS}
								),
							'&nbsp; ',
							(Dsq.jsonData.context.use_fb_connect ?
								'<div id="dsq-fbc-login" onlogin="DisqusFbcParentController.onLogin()" size="medium" background="light" length="short" style="display:inline; margin-right:7px"></div>' :
								''
							),
							(Dsq.jsonData.context.use_twitter_signin ?
								Dsq.Utils.interpolate(
									'<div id="dsq-twitter-login" class="dsq-twitter-login" onclick="Dsq.Twitter.startTwitterConnect();" style="display:inline; cursor: pointer"><img src="%(media_url)s/images/twitter-signin-short.png" style="margin-right:7px" /></div>', {}) : ''),
							(Dsq.jsonData.context.use_openid ?
								Dsq.Utils.interpolate(
									'<div id="dsq-openid-login" class="dsq-openid-login" onclick="Dsq.OpenID.requestURL();" style="display:inline; cursor:pointer;"><img src="%(media_url)s/images/openid-login-button.png"/></div>', {}
								) : '')
			]);
		}
		result = result.concat([
						'</div>', // dsq-login
					'</div>', // dsq-auth-header
					'<div id="dsq-authenticated" class="dsq-authenticated" ',
						Dsq.jsonData.request.is_authenticated ? 'style="display:block"' : '',
						'>',
						'<div class="dsq-authenticated-pic">',
								Dsq.Utils.interpolate('<a href="%(url)s" title="%(request_display_username)s">' +
																			'<img class="dsq-post-avatar" src="%(avatar_url)s" alt="" /></a>',
																			{avatar_url: Dsq.Urls.REQUEST_USER_AVATAR,
																			url: (Dsq.jsonData.request.is_remote
																					 ? Dsq.jsonData.request.url
																					 : Dsq.jsonData.settings.disqus_url + Dsq.Urls.REQUEST_USER_PROFILE) }),
						'</div>',
						'<div class="dsq-authenticated-info">',
							'<ul>',
								'<li>',
									(Dsq.jsonData.request.is_remote
										? Dsq.FmtStrings.LOGGED_IN_AS(
												Dsq.Utils.interpolate('<a href="%(url)s" title="%(request_display_username)s">%(request_display_username)s</a>', {url:Dsq.jsonData.request.url})
										  )
										: Dsq.FmtStrings.LOGGED_IN_AS(
												Dsq.Utils.interpolate('<a href="%(disqus_url)s%(profile_url)s" title="%(request_display_username)s">%(request_display_username)s</a>')
											)
									),
								'</li>',
								'<li class="logout">',
									(!Dsq.jsonData.request.is_remote
										? Dsq.Utils.interpolate('<img class="dsq-login-icon" src="%(media_url)s/images/dsqicon12.png" alt="%(logged_in_as)s"/>&nbsp',
											{logged_in_as: Dsq.FmtStrings.LOGGED_IN_AS(Dsq.jsonData.request.display_username)})
										: ''),

									(!Dsq.jsonData.request.is_remote
										? Dsq.Utils.interpolate('<a href="%(disqus_url)s%(logout_url)s?ctkn=%(csrf_token)s" title="%(logout_from_disqus)s">',
											{logout_url: Dsq.Urls.LOGOUT, csrf_token: Dsq.CSRF_TOKEN, logout_from_disqus: Dsq.FmtStrings.LOGOUT_FROM('DISQUS')})
										: ((Dsq.jsonData.request.remote_domain == 'twitter')
												? Dsq.Utils.interpolate('using Twitter (<a href="%(disqus_url)s%(logout_url)s?ctkn=%(csrf_token)s" title="Logout">Logout</a>)',
												 {logout_url: Dsq.Urls.LOGOUT, csrf_token: Dsq.CSRF_TOKEN})
												: ((Dsq.jsonData.request.remote_domain == 'openid')
													 ? Dsq.Utils.interpolate('using OpenID (<a href="%(disqus_url)s%(logout_url)s?ctkn=%(csrf_token)s" title="Logout">Logout</a>)',
													 {logout_url: Dsq.Urls.LOGOUT, csrf_token: Dsq.CSRF_TOKEN})
													 : ''
													)
											)
									),

									(!Dsq.jsonData.request.is_remote ? Dsq.FmtStrings.LOGOUT_FROM('<span class="logo-disqus">DISQUS</span>') : ''),
									'</a>',
								'</li>',
							'</ul>',
						'</div>',
					'</div>'
		]);
		if (Dsq.jsonData.context.use_fb_connect) {
			result = result.concat([
					'<div id="dsq-fbc-authenticated" class="dsq-authenticated">',
						'<div id="dsq-fbc-profilepic" class="dsq-authenticated-pic" uid="loggedinuser" type="FB.XFBML.ProfilePic" size="square" facebook-logo="true"></div>',
						'<div class="dsq-authenticated-info">',
							'<ul>',
								'<li>',
									'Logged in as <span id="dsq-fbc-name" uid="loggedinuser" type="FB.XFBML.Name" linked="true" useyou="false"></span>',
								'</li>',
								'<li class="logout">using Facebook Connect <a href="#" onclick="javascript:DisqusFbcParentController.logout();return false;">(Logout)</a></li>',
							'</ul>',
						'</div>',
					'</div>'
			]);
		}
		result = result.concat([
				'</div>', // dsq-auth
				'<div id="dsq-toolbar-items">',
				'</div>'
		]);
		result = result.concat([
					//
					//
					//
				((!Dsq.jsonData.forum.allow_anon_post && !Dsq.jsonData.request.is_authenticated) ?
					// Needs to be translated:
					('<p id="dsq-no-anon-msg">Required: Please log into <span class="logo-disqus">Disqus</span> ' +
					(Dsq.jsonData.context.use_fb_connect ? 'or connect with Facebook ' : '') +
					(Dsq.jsonData.context.use_twitter_signin ? 'or sign in with Twitter ' : '') +
					(Dsq.jsonData.context.use_openid ? 'or sign in using OpenID ' : '') +
					Dsq.Utils.interpolate('to comment on <strong>%(forum_name)s</strong>.</p>')) :
					''
				),
				'<div id="dsq-post-add"></div>',
				'<div style="margin:10px 0">',
				((Dsq.jsonData.forum.use_media) ?
						'<a href="#" id="dsq-media-link" onclick="Dsq.Post.showMenu(this, false, \'media\'); return false">' + Dsq.Strings.USE_MEDIA + ' <small>&#9660;</small></a>' :
						''),
				'</div>'
		]);
		return result.join('');
	};


	this.header = function() {

		var html = '\<h3 id="dsq-comments-count" class="dsq-h3-commentcount">\
	 <span id="dsq-num-posts">146</span> Comments\
	 &nbsp;\
	 <span class="dsq-item-feed">\
	 <a href="http://jackandjillpolitics.disqus.com/the_autopsy_on_why_proposition_8_passed_hint_black_people_didn8217t_help_kill_it/latest.rss"><img src="http://media.disqus.com/images/embed/bullet-feed.png"></a>\
	 </span>\
	 </h3>\
	 <div id="dsq-options" style="margin:15px 0">\
	 <span class="dsq-item-sort">\
	 Sort by\
	 <select id="dsq-sort-select" onchange="Dsq.Thread.sortBy(this.value);">\
	 <option value="hot" selected="selected">Popular now</option>\
	 <option value="best" >Best Rating</option>\
	 <option value="newest" >Newest first</option>\
	 <option value="oldest" >Oldest first</option>\
	 </select>\
	 &nbsp;\
	 </span>\
	 <span class="dsq-item-cp"><a href="http://jackandjillpolitics.disqus.com/the_autopsy_on_why_proposition_8_passed_hint_black_people_didn8217t_help_kill_it/">Community Page</a>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</span>\
	 <span class="dsq-item-subscribe">\
	 <img src="http://media.disqus.com/images/embed/email.png" style="width:12px;height:12px;vertical-align:middle">\
	 <span id="dsq-subscribe">\
	 <a href="#" onclick="Dsq.Thread.subscribe(1); return false">Subscribe by email</a>\
	 </span>\
	 </span>\
	 </div>\
	 <div id="dsq-alerts">\
	 <p><a href="http://disqus.com/profile/login/?next=article:6896707" onclick="Dsq.Popup.login(); return false">You must log into your Disqus Profile in order to post comments.</a></p>\
	 </div>\
		';

		

		
		if (Dsq.jsonData.request.is_moderator) { 
			html = ' \
			<div class="dsq-alert-message dsq-upgrade-message"> \
				<strong>Disqus upgrade available.</strong> Hi ' + Dsq.jsonData.request.display_username + ', this message is being displayed to you because you are a moderator of this site. <a href="#" onclick="Dsq.$(\'dsq-upgrade-message\').style.display=\'block\';this.style.display=\'none\';return false">Click here for details.</a> \
				<div style="display:none; margin-top:10px;" id="dsq-upgrade-message"> \
					A new theme is available with added features. <a href="http://disqus.com/comments/settings/' + Dsq.jsonData.forum.url + '/?p=customize">To change your theme, click here</a> and choose the theme Narcissus. \
					If you do not upgrade, you are missing out on features such as: real-time commenting, new sign-in integrations, and an upgrade interface. \
					<strong>This message will automatically go away in one week.</strong> \
				</div> \
			</div> \
			' + html; 
		}
		return html;
	};

	this.footer = function() {
		var html = Dsq.Templates.pagination();

		
			html += Dsq.Templates.authPost();
		

		html += Dsq.Templates.reactions();

		
			html += Dsq.Templates.trackbacks();
		

		return html;
	};

	this.pagination = function() {
		var html = '';
		
		if (Dsq.$('dsq-pagination')) { Dsq.$('dsq-pagination').innerHTML = ''; }
		if (!Dsq.jsonData.thread.paginate) { return ''; }

		//
		// TODO: num_paginator still uses the template tag for pagination, 
		// 		while append_paginator does it all in JavaScript.
		//		This should all be in JavaScript.
		//

		if (Dsq.jsonData.thread.num_pages > 1 && Dsq.jsonData.request.page < Dsq.jsonData.thread.num_pages) {
			html = ' \<a class="dsq-paginate-append-text" href="#" onclick="Dsq.Thread.paginate(Dsq.jsonData.request.page + 1, this); return false">Show more comments...</a>\
	 <button class="dsq-button-small dsq-paginate-append-button" onclick="Dsq.Thread.paginate(Dsq.jsonData.request.page + 1, this);">Load more comments</button>\
			';
		}
		
		if (Dsq.$('dsq-pagination')) {
			Dsq.$('dsq-pagination').innerHTML = html;
			return '';
		} else {
			return '<div id="dsq-pagination" class="dsq-pagination">' + html + '</div>';
		}
	};

	this.trackbacks = function() {
		var html = '';

		if(typeof DsqLocal != 'undefined' && DsqLocal.trackback_url && DsqLocal.trackbacks) {
			var trackbacks = DsqLocal.trackbacks;
			var trackback_url = DsqLocal.trackback_url;
		} else {
			var trackbacks = [
			
			
			];
			var trackback_url = 'http://jackandjillpolitics.disqus.com/the_autopsy_on_why_proposition_8_passed_hint_black_people_didn8217t_help_kill_it/trackback/';
		}

		html += '<div class="dsq-item-trackback">Trackback URL&nbsp;&nbsp;<input class="dsq-trackback-url" onclick="this.select()" readonly="true" value="' + trackback_url + '"></div>';

		if(trackbacks.length) {
			html += '<ul id="dsq-references">'
			for(var i = 0; i < trackbacks.length; i++) {
				var trackback = trackbacks[i];
				html += '<li><cite><a href="' + trackback.author_url + '" rel="nofollow">' + trackback.author_name + '</a></cite> \
						<p class="dsq-meta">' + trackback.date + '</p> \
						<p class="dsq-content">' + trackback.excerpt + '</p></li>';
			}
			html += '</ul>';
			html = '<h3 class="dsq-h3-trackbacks">Trackbacks</h3>' + html;
		}

		return html;
	}

	this.showRetweets = function(id, limit, element_id /* Optional */) {
		var source, html = '';

		for (var i = 0, reaction; reaction = Dsq.jsonData.reactions[i]; i++) {
			if (reaction.id === id) {
				source = reaction.retweets;
			}
		}

		if (source) {
			if (limit === 0) {
				limit = source.length;
			}

			for (var j = 0; j < limit; j++) {
				var rt = source[j];
				html += '<a href="' + rt.url + '">' + rt.author_name + '</a>'	+ ((j === (limit - 1)) ? '.' : ', ');
			}
		}

		if (element_id === undefined) {
			return html;
		}

		var element = document.getElementById(element_id);
		element.innerHTML = html;
		return element;
	};

	this.showMoreReactions = function(reactions, has_more, start, limit) {
		var link = document.getElementById('dsq-show-more-reactions');
		var container = link.parentNode;
		container.removeChild(link);

		for (var i = 0, reaction; reaction = reactions[i]; i++) {
			var el = Dsq.Templates.generateReactionHTML(reaction);
			if (el) {
				container.innerHTML += el;
			}
		}

		if (has_more) {
			var d = Dsq.jsonData.settings.disqus_url;
			var f = Dsq.jsonData.forum.url;
			var t = Dsq.jsonData.thread.id;
			var s = start;
			var l = limit;

			var handler = 'Dsq.Utils.execScript(\'' + d + '/forums/' + f + '/more_reactions.js?t=' + t + '&s=' + s + '&l=' + l + '\', true); return false;';
			container.innerHTML += '<li id="dsq-show-more-reactions"><a href="#" onclick="' + handler + '">Show more reactions</a></li>';
		}
	};

	this.generateReactionHTML = function(reaction) {
		if (reaction.body === null || reaction.body == '') {
			return;
		}

		if (reaction.author_name === '') {
			reaction.author_name = '&nbsp;';
		}

		if (reaction.url === '') {
			reaction.url = reaction.get_service_url;
		}

		/* Reaction HTML begins */
		var item = '<li class="dsq-reaction" id="dsq-reaction-' + reaction.id + '">'
			+ '<div class="dsq-reaction-header">'
			+ '<div class="dsq-header-avatar">';

		if (reaction.author_url && reaction.author_url !== '') {
			item += '<a target="_blank" href="' + reaction.author_url +'">';
		} else {
			item += '<a target="_blank" href="#" onclick="return false;">';
		}

		if (reaction.avatar_url && reaction.avatar_url !== '') {
			item += '<img src="' + reaction.avatar_url + '"/>';
		} else {
			item += '<img src="' + Dsq.jsonData.media_url + '/images/noavatar32.png"/>';
		}

		var service_icon = (reaction.get_service_name == 'trackback' || reaction.get_service_name == 'pingback' ? 'rss' : reaction.get_service_name.replace(' ', ''));
		item += '<img class="dsq-service-icon" src="' + Dsq.jsonData.media_url + '/images/reactions/services/' + service_icon + '.png"/>'
			+ '</a></div>'
			+ '<cite><span>' + reaction.author_name + '</span></cite>'
			+ '<span class="dsq-header-meta"><a class="dsq-header-time">' + reaction.date_created + '</a></span>'
			+ '</div><div class="dsq-reaction-body">'
			+ '<div class="dsq-reaction-message">' + reaction.body + '</div>'
			+ '<div class="dsq-reaction-footer">From <a class="dsq-service-name" target="_blank" href="' + reaction.url + '">' + reaction.get_service_name + '</a> '
			+ 'via ' + (reaction.source == 'backtype' ? '<a href="http://backtype.com/">BackType</a>' : '<a href="' + reaction.source_url + '">UberVU</a>')
			+ (Dsq.jsonData.request.is_moderator || Dsq.jsonData.request.is_global_moderator ? '&nbsp;&bull;&nbsp;<a class="dsq-hide-reaction" href="#" onclick="Dsq.Reaction.hide(' + reaction.id + '); return false;">Hide</a>' : '') + '</div></div>';

		if(reaction.retweets) {
			var num_retweets = reaction.retweets.length;
			if (num_retweets > 0) {
				item += '<div class="dsq-reaction-retweets">';
				if (num_retweets == 1) {
					item += 'One more retweet from <a href="' + reaction.retweets[0].url + '">'  + reaction.retweets[0].author_name + '</a>';
				} else {
					item += (num_retweets + ' more retweets from ');

					item += '<span id="dsq-reaction-retweets-' + reaction.id + '">';
					var n_tweets = (num_retweets > 15) ? 15 : num_retweets;
					item += Dsq.Templates.showRetweets(reaction.id, n_tweets);

					if (n_tweets != num_retweets) {
						item += '</span> <a onclick="Dsq.Templates.showRetweets(' + reaction.id + ', 0, \'dsq-reaction-retweets-' + reaction.id + '\');'
							+ 'this.parentNode.removeChild(this); return false;" href="#">Show all</a>';
					}
				}
				item += '</div>';
			}
		}

		item += '</li>'; /* Reaction HTML ends */
		return item;
	};

	this.reactions = function() {
		var html, reaction;

		if (Dsq.jsonData.reactions === undefined || Dsq.jsonData.reactions.length === 0) {
			return '';
		}

		html = '';
		for (var i = 0; reaction = Dsq.jsonData.reactions[i]; i++) {
			var item = Dsq.Templates.generateReactionHTML(reaction);
			if (item) {
				html += item;
			}
		}

		if (Dsq.jsonData.has_more_reactions) {
			var d = Dsq.jsonData.settings.disqus_url;
			var f = Dsq.jsonData.forum.url;
			var t = Dsq.jsonData.thread.id;
			var s = Dsq.jsonData.reactions_start;
			var l = Dsq.jsonData.reactions_limit;

			var handler = 'Dsq.Utils.execScript(\'' + d + '/forums/' + f + '/more_reactions.js?t=' + t + '&s=' + s + '&l=' + l + '\', true); return false;';
			html += '<li id="dsq-show-more-reactions"><a href="#" onclick="' + handler + '">Show more reactions</a></li>';
		}

		return '<h3 class="dsq-h3-reactions">Reactions</h3><ul id="dsq-reactions" class="dsq-reactions">' + html + '</ul>';
	};
	
	this.missingPermissions = function() {
		return '	<p><a href="http://disqus.com/profile/login/?next=article:6896707" onclick="Dsq.Popup.login(); return false">You must log into your Disqus Profile in order to post comments.</a></p> \n';
	};

	//
	// Post
	//

	this.prependPost = function(post_id) {
		var html = '<div id="comment-' + post_id + '"></div>';
		return html;
	};

	this.appendPost = function(post_id) {
		var html = '<div id="dsq-comment-reply-' + post_id + '"></div>';
		return html;
	};

	this.postPrependHeader = function(post_id) {
		var _meta = Dsq.jsonData.posts[post_id];
		var userData = Dsq.jsonData['users'][_meta.user_key];

		var _includeServices = function() {
			var userServices = Dsq.Post.getUserServices(null, post_id);
			var html = '';
			var hiddenThreshold = 3; // Define # of services to show before stuffing them in hidden div

			for(var i = 0; i < userServices.length; i++) {
				html +=
				(i == hiddenThreshold
					? '<li id="dsq-drop-hidden-' + post_id +'" class="dsq-drop-hidden"><ul>'
					: '')
				+ '<li class="dsq-drop-services"> \
					<a class="dsq-service-' + userServices[i].name.toLowerCase() + '" href="' + userServices[i].url + '" target="_blank"> \
						<img src="' + Dsq.jsonData.media_url + '/images/embed/services/' + userServices[i].name.toLowerCase() + '.png" alt="' + userServices[i].name.toLowerCase() + '">'
					+ userServices[i].name
					+ '</a> \
				</li>';
			}

			if(i >= hiddenThreshold) {
				html += '</ul></li> \
				<li id="dsq-drop-more-' + post_id + '" class="dsq-drop-more"><a href="#" onclick="Dsq.Post.dropProfileMore(this, '+ post_id + '); return false"><small>&#9660;</small></a></li> \
				';
			}
			return html;
		};

		return ' \
			<div class="dsq-header-avatar" id="dsq-header-avatar-' + post_id + '" onmouseover="Dsq.Post.dropProfile(' + post_id + ')"> \
				<a id="dsq-avatar-' + post_id + '" class="dsq-avatar" href="' + userData.url + '" onclick="Dsq.Popup.popProfile(' + post_id + '); return false;">'
			+ (Dsq.jsonData.forum.show_avatar
				? '<img src="' + Dsq.jsonData.users[_meta.user_key].avatar + '" alt="" />'
				: '')
			+ '</a>'
			+ '</div> \
		';
	};

	this.postAppendHeader = function(post_id) {
		var _meta = Dsq.jsonData.posts[post_id];

		return ''
			+ (_meta.author_is_moderator
				? '<img class="dsq-mod-star" src="http://media.disqus.com/images/bullet-star.png" title="Moderator" alt="" />'
				: '')
			+ '<span class="dsq-header-meta"> \
				<a id="dsq-time-' + post_id + '" class="dsq-header-time" href="#comment-' + post_id + '" title="Permalink">' + _meta.date + '</a> \
			</span>';
	};

	this.preBody = function(post_id) {
		return '';
	}

	this.postBody = function(post_id) {
		// TODO: Deprecate flagging conditional
		var _meta = Dsq.jsonData.posts[post_id];
		return ''
			+ (_meta.edited
				? '<p class="dsq-editedtxt">(Edited by a moderator)</p>'
				: '')
			;
	};

	this.postFooter = function(post_id) {
		// TODO: Use media should be conditional
		var _meta = Dsq.jsonData.posts[post_id];
		if(_meta.killed) { return ''; }

		return ' \
			<div class="dsq-comment-footer" id="dsq-comment-footer-' + post_id + '"> \
				<div id="dsq-points-' + post_id + '" class="dsq-likedtxt">'
				+ (_meta.points
					? _meta.points + Dsq.Utils.pluralize(_meta.points, ' person', ' people') + ' liked this comment.'
					: '')
				+ '</div>'
				+ '<ul class="dsq-comment-options dsq-list-style">'
				+ (_meta.votable
					? '<li class="dsq-list-first dsq-rate" id="dsq-rate-cont-' + post_id + '">'
					+ (!_meta.up_voted
						? '<a href="#" onclick="Dsq.Post.rate(this, ' + post_id + ', 1); return false;">Like</a>'
						: 'You liked this.') + '</li>'
					: '')
				+ '<li class="dsq-report' + (!_meta.votable ? ' dsq-list-first' : '') + '" id="dsq-post-report-' + post_id + '"><a href="#" class="dsq-post-report" onclick="Dsq.Post.report(' + post_id + ', false); return false;">Report</a></li> \
				</ul> \
				<ul class="dsq-list-style">'
				+ (_meta.can_reply
					? '<li class="dsq-list-first"><a href="#" id="dsq-reply-link-' + post_id +'" onclick="Dsq.Post.toggleReply(this, ' + post_id +'); return false;">Reply</a></li>'
					: '')
				+ (_meta.can_reply && !_meta.has_replies && _meta.from_request_user
					? '<li id="dsq-edit-el-' + post_id + '"><a id="dsq-edit-link-' + post_id + '" href="#" onclick="Dsq.Post.edit(this, ' + post_id + '); return false;">Edit</a></li>'
					: '')
				+ '<li class="' + (!_meta.can_reply ? 'dsq-list-first' : '') + '" id="dsq-more-el-' + post_id + '"><a id="dsq-more-link-' + post_id + '" href="#" onclick="Dsq.Post.showMenu(this, ' + post_id + ', \'more\'); return false">More <small>&#9660;</small></a></li>'
				+ (Dsq.jsonData.forum.use_media
					? '<li id="dsq-media-el-' + post_id +'" style="display:none"><a id="dsq-media-link-' + post_id + '" href="#" onclick="Dsq.Post.showMenu(this, ' + post_id + ', \'media\'); return false">Use Media <small>&#9660;</small></a></li>'
					: '')
				+ '</ul>'
				+ '<div id="dsq-reply-bar-' + post_id + '" class="dsq-reply-bar" style="display:none"> \
						<div id="dsq-reply-bar-items-' + post_id + '" class="dsq-reply-bar-items"> \
						</div> \
						<div id="dsq-reply-bar-auth-' + post_id + '" class="dsq-reply-bar-auth"> \
							 \
								 \
									<a href="#" class="dsq-help dsq-reply-req-opt" title="You must log into an account in order to comment on Jack and Jill Politics" onclick="Dsq.Popup.helpBadges(); return false">Required:</a> \
								 \
								<img class="dsq-login-icon" src="http://media.disqus.com/images/dsq-favicon-16x16.png" alt="" /> \
								<a id="dsq-reply-login-' + post_id + '" href="http://disqus.com/profile/login/?next=article:6896707" onclick="Dsq.Popup.login(); return false">Login</a> \
								 \
									&nbsp;or&nbsp; \
									<img class="fb_login_image" src="http://static.ak.fbcdn.net/images/fbconnect/login-buttons/connect_light_small_short.gif" alt="Facebook Connect"/> \
									<a href="#" onclick="FB.Connect.requireSession(DisqusFbcParentController.onLogin); return false;">Connect</a> \
								 \
								&nbsp;or&nbsp; \
									<img src="http://media.disqus.com/images/twitter-signin-icon.png" alt="" /> \
									<a href="#" onclick="Dsq.Twitter.startTwitterConnect(); return false">Sign-in</a> \
								 \
								 \
							 \
						</div> \
					</div> \
					<div id="dsq-reply-' + post_id + '"></div> \
			</div> \
		';
	};

	//
	// Iframes
	//

	this._makeAttributes = function(attributes) {
		// Makes a tag attributes string out of an object.
		// Caller is responsible for making sure nothing needs to be escaped.
		var result = [];
		for (key in attributes) {
			result.push(' ' + key + '="' + attributes[key] + '"');
		}
		result = result.join('');
		return result;
	};

	this._frameGeneric = function(base_url, params, attributes) {
		if(typeof(disqus_callback_params) == 'undefined') {
			disqus_callback_params = '';
		}

		var default_params = {
			// TODO: These should be moved to Dsq.jsonData.
			'f'				: 'jackandjillpolitics',
			't'				: 'the_autopsy_on_why_proposition_8_passed_hint_black_people_didn8217t_help_kill_it',
			// Do we need encodeURIComponent here?
			'ifrs'			: encodeURIComponent(disqus_iframe_css),
			'to_redirect'	: encodeURIComponent(window.location),
			'cbp'			: disqus_callback_params,
			'ff'			: Dsq.Thread.ff,
			'fc'			: Dsq.Thread.fc,
			'ac'			: Dsq.Thread.ac,
			'default_text'	: disqus_default_text
		};

		base_url += '?' + (new Date()).getTime();
		// Add params to default_params.
		if(params) {
			for(var key in params) {
				if(params.hasOwnProperty(key)) {
					default_params[key] = encodeURIComponent(params[key]);
				}
			}
		}
		// Build querystring.
		for(var key in default_params) {
			if(default_params[key] && default_params.hasOwnProperty(key)) {
				base_url += '&' + key + '=' + default_params[key];
			}
		}

		return [
			'<iframe marginwidth="0" marginheight="0" hspace="0" vspace="0" frameborder="0"',
			(' allowtransparency="true" src="' + base_url + '"'),
			this._makeAttributes(attributes),
			'</iframe>'].join('');
	};

	this.frameLogin = function(opt_attributes) {
		var params = {};
		var base_url = 'http://disqus.com/embed/login.html';
		var attributes = opt_attributes || {};
		attributes['class'] = 'dsq-post-login';

		if(typeof disqus_frame_theme != 'undefined') {
			params['theme'] = disqus_frame_theme;
		}
		return this._frameGeneric(base_url, params, attributes);
	};

	this.frameReply = function(post_id, extra_params, attributes) {
		// Returns the HTML for a reply iframe. Called by Dsq.Iframes.setReplyIframeToContainer
		var _meta = (typeof post_id != 'undefined') ? Dsq.jsonData.posts[post_id] : false;
		var base_url = Dsq.Urls.REPLY;
		var params = {
			'def_email'		: disqus_def_email,
			'def_name'		: disqus_def_name
		};
		if(extra_params) {
			for(var key in extra_params) {
				if(extra_params.hasOwnProperty(key)) {
					params[key] = extra_params[key];
				}
			}
		}
		if(_meta) {
			params['parent_post'] = post_id;
		}
		if(typeof disqus_per_page != 'undefined') {
			params['per_page'] = disqus_per_page;
		}
		if(typeof disqus_frame_theme != 'undefined') {
			params['theme'] = disqus_frame_theme;
		}
		if(Dsq.jsonData.request.is_authenticated) {
			attributes['class'] += '-authenticated';
		}
		return this._frameGeneric(base_url, params, attributes);
	};

	this.frameEdit = function(post_id) {
		var _meta = (typeof post_id != 'undefined') ? Dsq.jsonData.posts[post_id] : false;
		var base_url = 'http://disqus.com/embed/edit.html';
		var params = {
			'p' : post_id
		};
		return this._frameGeneric(base_url, params, {'class': 'dsq-post-edit', 'name': 'dsq-edit_' + post_id + '-frame'});
	};

	//
	// Menus
	//

	this.menuMore = function(post_id) {
		// TODO: "Remove post" button should hide menu.
		var _meta = Dsq.jsonData.posts[post_id];
		var userData = Dsq.jsonData['users'][_meta.user_key];
		return ' \
			<li><a href="#comment-' + post_id + '" onclick="Dsq.Popup.permalink(' + post_id + ')">Link</a></li> \
			<li><a href="#" onclick="Dsq.Popup.popProfile(' + post_id + '); return false;">Profile</a></li>'
	+ (Dsq.jsonData.request.is_moderator || Dsq.jsonData.request.is_global_moderator
		? '	<li class="dsq-menu-sep"></li>' + (_meta.email ? '<li class="dsq-admin-email">' + _meta.email + '</li>' : '')
		+ '	<li class="dsq-admin-ip">' + _meta.ip + '</li> \
			<li class="dsq-menu-sep"></li>'
		+ (Dsq.jsonData.request.moderator_can_edit
			? ' <li class="dsq-admin-edit"><a href="#" onclick="Dsq.Post.edit(this, ' + post_id + '); return false;">Edit Comment</a></li>'
			: '')
		+ ' <li class="dsq-remove"><a href="#" onclick="Dsq.Post.removePost(' + post_id + ', 1); return false;">Remove Comment</a></li> \
			<li class="dsq-report-spam"><a href="#" onclick="Dsq.Post.reportSpam(' + post_id + '); return false;">Mark Spam</a></li> \
			<li class="dsq-block-user"><a href="#" onclick="Dsq.Popup.blacklist(' + post_id + '); return false">Block User</a></li>'
		: '');
	};

	this.menuMedia = function(post_id) {
		return ' \
			<li><a href="#" onclick="Dsq.Post.toggleMediaReply(this, ' + post_id + ', \'seesmic\'); return false;">Record video</a></li> \
		';
	};

	this.dropProfile = function(post_id) {
		var _meta = Dsq.jsonData.posts[post_id];
		var userData = Dsq.jsonData['users'][_meta.user_key];

		var _includeServices = function() {
			var userServices = Dsq.Post.getUserServices(null, post_id);
			var html = '';
			var hiddenThreshold = 3; // Define # of services to show before stuffing them in hidden div

			for(var i = 0; i < userServices.length; i++) {
				html +=
				(i == hiddenThreshold
					? '<li id="dsq-drop-hidden-' + post_id +'" class="dsq-drop-hidden"><ul>'
					: '')
				+ '<li class="dsq-drop-services"> \
					<a class="dsq-service-' + userServices[i].name.toLowerCase() + '" href="' + userServices[i].url + '" target="_blank"> \
						<img src="' + Dsq.jsonData.media_url + '/images/embed/services/' + userServices[i].name.toLowerCase() + '.png" alt="' + userServices[i].name.toLowerCase() + '">'
					+ userServices[i].name
					+ '</a> \
				</li>';
			}

			if(i >= hiddenThreshold) {
				html += '</ul></li> \
				<li id="dsq-drop-more-' + post_id + '" class="dsq-drop-more"><a href="#" onclick="Dsq.Post.dropProfileMore(this, '+ post_id + '); return false"><small>&#9660;</small></a></li> \
				';
			}
			return html;
		};


		var menu = '<li class="dsq-drop-showlnk"><a href="#" onclick="Dsq.Popup.popProfile(' + post_id + '); return false;">Expand &#8663;</a></li>';
		var pointsMessage = '';
		if (userData['registered']) {
			pointsMessage = 'with ' + userData['points'] + ' points (more points are better).';
		}

		if (userData['is_remote']) {
			var domain = userData['remote_domain_name'];
			menu += '<li class="dsq-drop-badge" title="' + userData['display_name'] + ' is a ' + domain + ' user ' + pointsMessage + '" onclick="Dsq.Popup.helpBadges()">';
			menu += '<span class="dsq-badge-' + domain.toLowerCase() + '">' + domain + '</span></li>';
		} else if (userData['registered']) {
			if (userData['verified']) {
				menu += '<li class="dsq-drop-badge" title="' + userData['display_name'] + ' has a verified commenter profile ' + pointsMessage + '" onclick="Dsq.Popup.helpBadges()">';
				menu += '<span class="dsq-badge-verified">Verified</span></li>';
			} else {
				menu += '<li class="dsq-drop-badge" title="' + userData['display_name'] + ' has a registered, but unverified, commenter profile ' + pointsMessage + '" onclick="Dsq.Popup.helpBadges()">';
				menu += '<span class="dsq-badge-registered">Registered</span></li>';
			}
		} else {
			menu += '<li class="dsq-drop-badge" title="' + userData['display_name'] + ' has not claimed this commenter profile." onclick="Dsq.Popup.helpBadges()"><span class="dsq-badge-guest">Guest</span></li>';
		}

		menu += _includeServices();
		return menu;
	};

	//
	// Popups
	//

	this._popupGeneric = function(content) {
		return ' \
		<div class="dsq-popup-content"> \
			<div class="dsq-popup-top"></div> \
			<div class="dsq-popup-body" class="clearfix"> \
				<div class="dsq-popup-body-padding"> \
					<div class="dsq-popup-header"> \
						<a class="dsq-close-link" href="#" onclick="Dsq.Popup._closePopup(null, true); return false"><img src="http://media.disqus.com/images/modal-close.png" alt="" /></a>'
						+ content['header']
					+ '</div>'
					+ content['body']
					+ '<div class="powered-by"><a href="http://disqus.com/comments/">Powered by <img src="http://media.disqus.com/images/embed/disqus-logo.png" alt="Disqus Comments" style="margin-bottom:-5px" /></a></div> \
				</div> <!-- padding --> \
			</div> <!-- body --> \
			<div class="dsq-popup-bottom"></div> \
		</div> \
		';
	};

	this.popupProfile = function(user_key) {
		var userServices = Dsq.Post.getUserServices(user_key, null);
		var userData = Dsq.jsonData['users'][user_key];
		var headerHtml = '';
		var bodyHtml = '';
		var content = {};

		var _includeServices = function() {
			var html = '';
			for(var i = 0; i < userServices.length; i++) {
				html +=
				(i == 0
					? '<h4>Connections</h4><ul>'
					: '')
				+ '<li> \
					<img src="' + Dsq.jsonData.media_url + '/images/embed/services/' + userServices[i].name.toLowerCase() + '.png" alt="' + userServices[i].name.toLowerCase() + '" title="' + userServices[i].name.toLowerCase() + '" /> \
					<a class="dsq-service-' + userServices[i].name.toLowerCase() + '" href="' + userServices[i].url + '" target="_blank">'
					+ userServices[i].name
					+ '</a> \
				</li>'
				+ (i+1 == userServices.length ? '</ul>' : '');
			}
			return html;
		};

		headerHtml = ' \
			<table> \
				<tr> \
					<td> \
						<a class="dsq-profile-userurl" href="' + userData.url + '"><img class="dsq-popup-profile-avatar" src="' + userData['avatar'] + '" alt="" /></a> \
					</td> \
					<td> \
						<div class="dsq-popup-profile-user"> \
							<h3>' + userData['display_name'] + '</h3> \
							<div class="dsq-popup-profile-user-stats" id="dsq-popup-profile-user-stats-' + user_key + '">Loading...</div> \
						</div> \
					</td> \
				</tr> \
			</table> \
		';

		bodyHtml = ' \
			<div class="dsq-popup-profile-state"> \
				This is a&nbsp;<span class="'
					+ (userData['registered']
						? (userData['verified']
							? ' dsq-badge-verified'
							: (userData['is_remote']
								? ' dsq-badge-' + userData['remote_domain_name'].toLowerCase()
								: ' dsq-badge-registered')
							)
							: ' dsq-badge-guest') + '">'
			+ (userData['registered']
				? (userData['verified']
					? 'Verified'
					: (userData['is_remote']
						 ? userData['remote_domain_name']
						 : 'Registered')
					)
				: 'Guest')
			+ '</span>&nbsp;commenter profile.'
			+ '&nbsp;<a class="dsq-profile-userurl" href="' + userData.url + '"><strong>View more comments </strong></a>'
			+ (!userData['points']
				? '<p class="dsq-popup-notice">If this is you, <a href="http://disqus.com/profile" target="_blank">claim it now</a> to manage your comments.</p>'
				: '')
			+ ((userData['registered'] && !userData['verified'] && (Dsq.jsonData.request.username && (Dsq.jsonData.request.username == userData['username'])) && !userData['is_remote'])
				? '<p class="dsq-popup-notice"><strong>Alert</strong>: You have not verified this account. <a href="http://disqus.com/verify">Verify it now.</a></p>'
				: '')
			+ '</div> \
			<div id="dsq-profile-status-' + user_key + '" class="dsq-popup-profile-status" style="display:none"></div> \
			<div class="dsq-popup-profile-snapshot"> \
				<table> \
					<tr> \
						<td> \
							<div id="dsq-popup-profile-active-sites-wrapper-' + user_key + '"> \
								<h4>Most active sites</h4> \
								<ul id="dsq-popup-profile-active-sites-' + user_key + '"> \
									<li>Loading...</li> \
								</ul> \
							</div> \
						</td> \
						<td>'
							+ _includeServices()
							+ '<div id="dsq-popup-profile-moderated-wrapper-' + user_key + '"> \
								<h4>Moderator of</h4> \
								<ul id="dsq-popup-profile-moderated-' + user_key + '"> \
									<li>Loading...</li> \
								</ul> \
							</div> \
						</td> \
					</tr> \
				</table> \
			</div> \
			';

		content = {
			'header': headerHtml,
			'body': bodyHtml
		};

		return this._popupGeneric(content);
	};

	this.popupReblog = function() {
		var headerHtml = '';
		var bodyHtml = '';
		var content = {};

		headerHtml = ' \
			<cite><span>Reblog this comment</span></cite> \
		';

		bodyHtml = ' \
			<div id="dsq-reblog-form" class="dsq-reblog-form"> \
			</div> \
		';

		content = {
			'header': headerHtml,
			'body': bodyHtml
		};

		return this._popupGeneric(content);
	};

	this.popupModal = function(title, message) {
		var headerHtml = '';
		var bodyHtml = '';
		var content = {};

		headerHtml = ' \
			<h3>' + title + '</h3> \
		';

		bodyHtml = message;

		content = {
			'header': headerHtml,
			'body': bodyHtml
		};

		return this._popupGeneric(content);
	};

	this.alertContent = function(name, post_id) {
		var alert = {
			'post_not_approved': {
				'title': 'Comment awaiting approval by a moderator',
				'message': 'Thanks for posting. Your comment must be approved by a moderator before appearing here.'
			},
			'post_has_profile': {
				'title': 'Use your existing commenter profile',
				'message': 'You have just posted your commment as a <span class="dsq-badge dsq-badge-guest">Guest</span>, but you may already have a <span class="dsq-badge dsq-badge-registered">Registered</span> commenter profile.<br /><br /><a href="http://disqus.com/claim">Log in and claim this comment!</a>'
			}
		};
		return alert[name] || false;
	};

	//
	// Actions
	//

	this.voted = function(post_id, points, vote) {
		// Update number of points
		Dsq.$('dsq-points-' + post_id).innerHTML = points + Dsq.Utils.pluralize(points, ' person', ' people') + ' liked this comment.';

		// Update link text
		if(vote) {
			Dsq.$('dsq-rate-cont-' + post_id).innerHTML = 'You liked this.';
		}
	};

	this.subscribed = function(status) {
		var title, message;

		if(status) {
			title = 'Subscribed!';
			message = 'You have subscribed to this comment thread. New comments will be sent directly to your email inbox, where you may read and respond by email.';
			Dsq.$('dsq-subscribe').innerHTML = ' \
				<a href="#" onclick="Dsq.Thread.subscribe(0); return false">Unsubscribe</a> \
			';
		} else {
			title = 'Unsubscribed';
			message = 'You have unsubscribed to this comment thread. New comments will no longer be sent to your email inbox.';
			Dsq.$('dsq-subscribe').innerHTML = ' \
				<a href="#" onclick="Dsq.Thread.subscribe(1); return false">Subscribe by email</a> \
			';
		}

		Dsq.Popup.popModal(message, title);

	};
	
	this.highlighted = function() {
		Dsq.Popup.popModal('This comment has been highlighted.', 'Highlighted comment');
	};

	//
	// Media
	//

	this.mediaSeesmic = function(id, thumb) {
		return ' \
			<div id="dsq-seesmic-' + id + '_preview" class="dsq-seesmic-preview"><a href="http://www.seesmic.com/video/' + id + '" target="_blank" class="see_link">&nbsp;</a> \
				<div style="display:block;width:160px; height:120px; border:none; background-image:url(http://t.seesmic.com/thumbnail/' + thumb + ')"> \
					<div id="dsq-seesmic-' + id + '_hide" class="seePlayOverlay" style="display:none;"><img onclick="see_play_video(\'' + id + '\',false)" src="http://media.disqus.com/images/seesmic/stopOverlay.png" width="50" height="50" style="cursor:pointer; cursor:hand; padding-top: 30px; padding-left: 50px" alt="" /></div> \
					<div id="dsq-seesmic-' + id + '_show" class="seePlayOverlay"><img onclick="see_play_video(\'' + id + '\',true)" src="http://media.disqus.com/images/seesmic/playOverlay.png" width="50" height="50" style="cursor:pointer; cursor:hand; border:none; padding-top: 30px; padding-left: 50px" alt="" /></div> \
				</div> \
			</div> \
			<div id="' + id + '_content" style="display:block; width:100%; padding-top:5px"></div> \
		';
	};

	//
	// Callbacks
	//

	this.postComment_onSuccess = function(parent_post_id) {
		// Increment post count
		var num_posts = Dsq.$('dsq-num-posts');
		var total_posts = Dsq.$('dsq-total-posts');
		
		if (num_posts) { 
			num_posts.innerHTML = parseInt(num_posts.innerHTML) + 1;
		}
		if (total_posts) { 
			total_posts.innerHTML = parseInt(total_posts.innerHTML) + 1;
		}
	};
};
// Dsq.Templates


/**
 * Dsq.Post
 */
Dsq.Post = new function() {
	this.openedMenu = {};
	this.menuEventListener = null;
	this.stateReplyToggled = {};
	this.stateEditToggled = {};
	this.stateRecordLink = {};

	/**
	 * Inserts a new post into the document.
	 *
	 * @param after_id {Number}	Insert a post before specified id.  If after_id
	 *							evaluates to false, then post in the front.  If
	 *							after_id is -1, post at the end.
	 */
	this.insert = function(after_id, id, message, author) {
		// Skeleton template from thread_posts.html.
		var skeleton = ' \
			<li id="dsq-comment-%(id)s"> \
				<div id="dsq-comment-header-%(id)s" class="dsq-comment-header"> \
					<cite id="dsq-cite-%(id)s" class="dsq-comment-cite"> \
						<a id="dsq-author-user-%(id)s" href="%(author_url)s" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">%(author_name)s</a> \
					</cite> \
				</div> \
				<div id="dsq-comment-body-%(id)s" class="dsq-comment-body"> \
					<div id="dsq-comment-message-%(id)s" class="dsq-comment-message">%(message)s</div> \
				</div> \
			</li> \
		';
		var _meta = Dsq.jsonData.posts[id];
		var _user_meta = Dsq.jsonData.users[_meta.user_key];
		var markup = Dsq.Utils.interpolate(skeleton, {
			id: id,
			message: message,
			author_url: _user_meta.blog,
			author_name: _user_meta.display_name
		});
		var div = document.createElement('div');
		markup = markup.replace(Dsq.COMMENTS_RE, Dsq.CommentsHandler);
		div.innerHTML = markup;

		if (after_id === -1) {
			Dsq.$('dsq-comments').appendChild(div);
		} else if (!after_id) {
			Dsq.$('dsq-comments').insertBefore(div, Dsq.$('dsq-comments').firstChild);
		} else if (Dsq.$('dsq-comment-' + after_id)) {
			// Get next node after "after_id", so we can insert before it.
			// If "after_id" is the last comment, the target node is the
			// last node.
			
			// var append_post_id = Dsq.Templates.appendPost(after_id).replace('<div id="','').replace('"></div>', '');
			var append_post_id = 'dsq-append-post-' + after_id;
			var node = Dsq.$(append_post_id);
			while (node = node.nextSibling) {
				if (!node || node.nodeType == 1) { // 1 == Node.ELEMENT_NODE
					break;
				}
			}
			if (!node) {
				node = Dsq.$(append_post_id);
			}
			node.parentNode.insertBefore(div, node);
		}
	};

	this.incrementPostCount = function() {
		
		var num_posts = Dsq.$('dsq-num-posts');
		var total_posts = Dsq.$('dsq-total-posts');

		if (num_posts) {
			num_posts.innerHTML = parseInt(num_posts.innerHTML, 10) + 1;
		}
		if (total_posts) {
			total_posts.innerHTML = parseInt(total_posts.innerHTML, 10) + 1;
		}
	}
	
	this.outlineComment = function(post_id) {
		Dsq.$('dsq-comment-' + post_id).className += ' dsq-comment-outline';
		setTimeout("(function () { Dsq.Post.clearOutlineComment(" + post_id + ") })()", 3000);
	};
	
	this.clearOutlineComment = function(post_id) {
		Dsq.$('dsq-comment-' + post_id).className = Dsq.$('dsq-comment-' + post_id).className.replace('dsq-comment-outline', '');
	};

	this.showMenu = function(el, id, name) {
		var anchorPos = Dsq.Utils.findPos(el);
		var menu = document.createElement('ul');

		if(this.openedMenu) {
			if(this.openedMenu.linkClicked) {
				this.openedMenu.linkClicked = false;
				return;
			}
		}

		switch(name) {
			case 'more':
				menu.innerHTML = Dsq.Templates.menuMore(id);
				break;
			case 'media':
				menu.innerHTML = Dsq.Templates.menuMedia(id);
				break;
			default:
				break;
		}

		// Add menu to document body
		menu.id = 'dsq-menu-' + id;
		menu.className = 'dsq-menu';
		Dsq.$b.appendChild(menu);

		// Position and show
		anchorPos[1] += 15;
		menu.style.left = anchorPos[0] + 'px';
		menu.style.top = anchorPos[1] + 'px';
		menu.style.display = 'block';

		// Set global reference
		this.openedMenu = {
			'el' : menu,
			'id' : id,
			'name' : name,
			'linkClicked' : false
		};

		// Set listener
		this.menuEventListener = Dsq.Utils.addEventListener(document, 'mouseup', this._hideMenu);
	};

	this._hideMenu = function(e) {
		var el = e.target || e.srcElement;
		var openedMenu = Dsq.Post.openedMenu.el;
		var id = Dsq.Post.openedMenu.id;

		if(!id) {
			var link = 'dsq-' + Dsq.Post.openedMenu.name + '-link';
		} else {
			var link = 'dsq-' + Dsq.Post.openedMenu.name + '-link-' + id;
		}

		if(!openedMenu) {
			return;
		}

		if(!Dsq.Popup.isClicked(e, openedMenu.id)) {
			openedMenu.style.display = 'none';
			Dsq.Utils.removeEventListener(Dsq.Post.menuEventListener);
			Dsq.Utils.deleteNode(openedMenu);

		} else {
			// Hide the menu if a link was clicked inside the menu.  We can't
			// completely remove the menu until the onclick event on the link
			// fires, but the menuEventListener will prevent multiple menus
			// from polluting the DOM.
			if(el && typeof el.href != 'undefined') {
				openedMenu.style.display = 'none';
				Dsq.Post.openedMenu.el = null;
			}
		}

		if(Dsq.Popup.isClicked(e, link)) {
 			Dsq.Post.openedMenu.linkClicked = true;
		}
	};


	this.getUserServices = function(user_key, id) {
		if(!user_key && id) {
			var _meta = Dsq.jsonData.posts[id];
			user_key = _meta.user_key;
		}
		var userData = Dsq.jsonData['users'][user_key];
		var userServices = [];

		// Keep a full list of supported services. This is the order they will display in the drop-profile.
		// Each service must have a corresponding case in _buildServiceUrl()
		var supportedServices = ['blog', 'twitter', 'facebook', 'tumblr'];

		function _buildServiceUrl(serviceName) {
			var data = userData[serviceName];
			var services = {
				blog:		function(d) { return d; },
				twitter:	function(d) { return d; },
				facebook:	function(d) { return d; },
				tumblr:		function(d) { return 'http://' + d + '.tumblr.com'; }
			};
			return services[serviceName](data);
		}

		for(var i = 0; i < supportedServices.length; i++) {
			if(userData[supportedServices[i]]) {
				var serviceUrl = _buildServiceUrl(supportedServices[i]);
				userServices.push({'name' : supportedServices[i], 'url' : serviceUrl});
			}
		}
		return userServices;
	}

	this.dropProfile = function(id) {
		var dp = Dsq.$('dsq-drop-profile-' + id);

		// IE6 needs JS to display/hide. All other browsers use CSS.
		if(dp) {
			if(Dsq.Utils.ie6) dp.style.display = (dp.style.display == 'inline') ? 'none' : 'inline';
			return false;
		} else {
			dp = document.createElement('ul');
		}

		dp.id = 'dsq-drop-profile-' + id;
		dp.className = 'dsq-drop-profile';

		if(Dsq.Utils.ie6) { dp.style.display = 'inline'; }

		var container = Dsq.$('dsq-header-avatar-' + id);
		dp.innerHTML = Dsq.Templates.dropProfile(id);
		container.appendChild(dp);
	};

	this.dropProfileMore = function(el, id) {
		var hiddenItems = Dsq.$('dsq-drop-hidden-' + id);

		hiddenItems.style.display = 'inline';
		el.parentNode.style.display = 'none';
	};

	this._updateReplyLinks = function(el, id) {
		// Update "reply / cancel" links based on state.
		var displayDict = {};

		if(id) {
			if(this.stateReplyToggled[id]) {
				el.innerHTML = 'Cancel';
				displayDict['media'] = 'inline';
				displayDict['edit'] = 'none';
			} else {
				el.innerHTML = 'Reply';
				displayDict['media'] = 'none';
				displayDict['edit'] = 'inline';
			}
		}

		for(var key in displayDict) {
			if(displayDict.hasOwnProperty(key)) {
				var	linkEl = Dsq.$('dsq-' + key + '-el-' + id),
					spacer = Dsq.$('dsq-' + key + '-spacer-' + id);

				if(linkEl) {
					linkEl.style.display = displayDict[key];
					if(spacer) spacer.style.display = displayDict[key];
				}
			}
		}
	};

	this._updateMediaLinks = function(el, id) {
		// Update "use media / cancel" links based on state.
		var appendId = (id) ? ('-' + id) : '';
		var link = Dsq.$('dsq-media-link' + appendId);

		if(this.stateRecordLink[id]) {
			link.innerHTML = 'Cancel Media';
			link.onclick = function() { Dsq.Post.toggleMediaReply(link, id); return false; };
		} else {
			link.innerHTML = 'Use Media <small>&#9660;</small>';
			link.onclick = function() { Dsq.Post.showMenu(link, id, 'media'); return false; };
		}
	};

	this.toggleReply = function(el, id) {
		// Create reply IFrame
		if (window.disqus_use_postmessage) {
			if (!this.stateReplyToggled[id]) {
				Dsq.$('dsq-reply-' + id).style.display = 'block';
				Dsq.$('dsq-reply-bar-' + id).style.display = 'block';
				// Create IFrame if it doesn't exist.
				if (!Dsq.frames['reply_' + id]) {
					var _meta = Dsq.jsonData.posts[id];
					Dsq.frames['reply_' + id] = new Dsq.ReplyFrame(Dsq.$('dsq-reply-frame-' + id), id);
					Dsq.frames['reply_' + id].init();
					Dsq.frames['reply_' + id].setState(id, _meta.depth);
				}
			} else {
				Dsq.$('dsq-reply-' + id).style.display = 'none';
				Dsq.$('dsq-reply-bar-' + id).style.display = 'none';
			}
		} else {
			// DEPRECATED
			if(!this.stateReplyToggled[id]) {
				// Reply toolbar
				Dsq.$('dsq-reply-bar-' + id).style.display = 'block';
				Dsq.Iframes.showReplyIframeInContainerIfAllowed(Dsq.$('dsq-reply-' + id), id);
			} else {
				Dsq.$('dsq-reply-bar-' + id).style.display = 'none';
				Dsq.Iframes.hideAllInContainer(Dsq.$('dsq-reply-' + id));
				if(this.stateRecordLink[id]) {
					// HACK: Cancel media before canceling self.
					this.toggleMediaReply(Dsq.$('dsq-media-link-' + id), id);
				}
			}
		}

		this.stateReplyToggled[id] = !this.stateReplyToggled[id];
		this._updateReplyLinks(el, id);

		if(Dsq.Utils.ie) { Dsq.Utils.fixIframesIE('dsq-reply-' + id); }

		Dsq.Events.fire(Dsq.Events.REPLY_IFRAME_TOGGLED, {
			postId: id,
			opened: this.stateReplyToggled[id]
		});
	};

	this.toggleMediaReply = function(el, id, xtype) {
		id = id || 0;
		if(id) {
			var container = Dsq.$('dsq-reply-' + id);
		} else {
			var container = Dsq.$('dsq-post-add');
		}

		if(!this.stateRecordLink[id]) {
			Dsq.Iframes.showReplyIframeInContainer(container, id, {xtype:xtype}, 'dsq-post-video');
		} else {
			Dsq.Iframes.showReplyIframeInContainer(container, id);
		}
		this.stateRecordLink[id] = !this.stateRecordLink[id];
		this._updateMediaLinks(el, id);

		if(Dsq.Utils.ie) { Dsq.Utils.fixIframesIE(); }
	};

	this.edit = function(el, id) {
		Dsq.$('dsq-comment-message-' + id).innerHTML = Dsq.Templates.frameEdit(id);
		el.parentNode.style.display = 'none';
		if(Dsq.Utils.ie) { Dsq.Utils.fixIframesIE('dsq-comment-message-' + id); }
	};

    this.rate = function(el, id, vote) {
		if(Dsq.jsonData.request.is_authenticated || Dsq.jsonData.forum.allow_anon_votes) {
			if(vote == 1) {
                Dsq.$('dsq-rate-cont-' + id).innerHTML = '<img src="http://media.disqus.com/images/loading-small.gif">';
            }

            Dsq.Utils.execScript('http://disqus.com/forums/jackandjillpolitics/vote.js'
                + '?post_id='    + id
                + '&vote='        + vote);

		} else {
			Dsq.Popup.login(Dsq.Strings.TO_RATE_PLEASE_LOG_IN);
		}
    };

	this.report = function(id, confirmed) {
		if(confirmed) {
			Dsq.Utils.postToUrl('http://disqus.com/forums/jackandjillpolitics/the_autopsy_on_why_proposition_8_passed_hint_black_people_didn8217t_help_kill_it/post_report/', {'post_id': id});
			Dsq.Popup.popModal('Thank you. This comment has been flagged for moderator attention.', 'Successfully flagged');
			Dsq.Utils.deleteNode(Dsq.$('dsq-post-report-' + id));
		} else {
			var title = Dsq.Strings.FLAG_INAPPROPRIATE_COMMENT;
			var message = Dsq.Strings.ARE_YOU_SURE_YOU_WOULD_LIKE_TO_REPORT_THIS_COMMENT_TO_A_MODERATOR + '? \
			<br /><br /> \
			<button onclick="Dsq.Popup._closePopup(null, true)"><strong>' + Dsq.Strings.NO + '</strong>, ' + Dsq.Strings.NEVER_MIND + '</button>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<button onclick="Dsq.Post.report(' + id + ', true);"><strong>' + Dsq.Strings.YES + '</strong>, ' + Dsq.Strings.FLAG_INAPPROPRIATE_COMMENT + '</button><br /><br />'
			+ Dsq.Strings.THIS_WILL_FLAG_COMMENTS_FOR_MODERATORS_TO_TAKE_ACTION + '. \
			';

			Dsq.Popup.popModal(message, title, id);
		}
	};



	this.showAlert = function(id, msg) {
		var msgEl = Dsq.$('dsq-comment-message-' + id);
		var alert = '<div class="dsq-comment-alert">' + msg + '</div>';

		msgEl.innerHTML = alert + msgEl.innerHTML;
	};

};
// Dsq.Post


/**
 * Dsq.Thread
 */
Dsq.Thread = new function() {
	this.fc = null;
	this.ff = null;
	this.ac = null;

	
	this.adminIsOn = false;

	
	
	

	this.hlComment = null;
	this.hlCommentClass = null;

	this.getNextComment = function(el) {
		var start_id = el.id;
		while(el = el.nextSibling) {
			if(el.id && el.id.indexOf('dsq-comment-') != -1 && el.id != start_id) {
				return el;
			}
		}
		return null;
	};

	this.getActiveCommentId = function() {
		if (document.URL.indexOf('#comment-') >= 0) {
			var anchor = document.URL.slice(document.URL.indexOf('#') + 1);
			return anchor.replace('comment-', '');
		}
		return null;
	};

	this.highlightAnchor = function() {
		var i = this.getActiveCommentId();
		if (i == null) return false;
		var id = 'dsq-comment-' + i;
		var hash = window.location.hash;

		// Toggle the hash incase the comment isn't available when the page loads
		// for WebKit-based browsers.
		if (Dsq.Utils.webkit) {
			window.location.hash = '';
			window.location.hash = hash;
		}

		this.hlComment = Dsq.$(id);
		// Adding this conditional guard pending #289
		if (!this.hlComment) {
			return;
		}
		this.hlCommentClass = this.hlComment.className;
		this.hlComment.className += ' dsq-hl-anchor';

		setTimeout("Dsq.Thread.highlightClear()", 3000);
	};

	this.highlightClear = function() {
		if (!this.hlComment) {
			return;
		}
		this.hlComment.className = this.hlCommentClass;
	};

	this.login = function(toggle) {
		// toggle id is #dsq-reply-login-[id]
		var postId;
		if(toggle.id.indexOf('dsq-reply-login') != -1) {
			postId = toggle.id.slice(16);
			var container = Dsq.$('dsq-reply-' + postId);
		} else {
			var container = Dsq.$('dsq-post-add');
		}

		if(toggle) {
			if(toggle.className == 'dsq-login-active') {
				Dsq.Iframes.showReplyIframeInContainerIfAllowed(container, postId);
				toggle.className = '';
			} else {
				Dsq.Iframes.showLoginIframeInContainer(container, postId);
				toggle.className = 'dsq-login-active';
			}
		} else {
			Dsq.Iframes.showLoginIframeInContainer(container, postId);
		}

		if(Dsq.Utils.ie) { Dsq.Utils.fixIframesIE(); }
	};


	this.paginate = function(page, el_clicked, per_page) {
		// Use extra_params to pass any override parameters that we need to persist.
		var extra_params = '';

		// "Per page" can either be overriden by providing it as an argument
		// (per-call) or setting the disqus_per_page override variable (global).
		if(typeof per_page == 'undefined') {
			per_page = null;
		}
		if(typeof disqus_per_page != 'undefined' && per_page === null) {
			per_page = disqus_per_page;
		}

		if(typeof disqus_sort != 'undefined') {
			extra_params += '&sort=' + disqus_sort;
		}
		if(per_page !== null) {
			extra_params += '&per_page=' + per_page;
		}

		Dsq.$('dsq-pagination').innerHTML += '<img src="http://media.disqus.com/images/loading-small.gif">';
		
		if(el_clicked) {
			el_clicked.style.display = 'none';
		}
		
		Dsq.Utils.execScript('http://disqus.com/forums/jackandjillpolitics/thread.js'
			+ '?slug='	+ 'the_autopsy_on_why_proposition_8_passed_hint_black_people_didn8217t_help_kill_it'
			+ '&p='		+ page
			+ extra_params);
	};

	this.sortBy = function(sort) {
		var disqus_script = document.createElement('script');
		var disqus_date = new Date();

		if (location.hash != '') {
			location.hash = '#disqus_thread';
		}

		if(typeof(disqus_url) == 'undefined') {
			disqus_url = disqus_href;
		}
		disqus_script.type = 'text/javascript';
		disqus_script.src = 'http://disqus.com/forums/jackandjillpolitics/thread.js'
			+ '?slug='	+ 'the_autopsy_on_why_proposition_8_passed_hint_black_people_didn8217t_help_kill_it'
			+ '&sort='	+ sort
			+ '&title='
			+ '&'		+ disqus_date.getTime();

		Dsq.$('dsq-comments').innerHTML = '<img src="http://media.disqus.com/images/loading.gif">';
		Dsq.container.appendChild(disqus_script);
	};

	this.subscribe = function(status, email) {
		// `status` is an int -- 1 to subscribe, 0 to unsubscribe
		if(Dsq.jsonData.request.is_authenticated || email) {
			// If authenticated user OR anonymous email provided

			if(email) {
				Dsq.Popup._closePopup(null, true);
			}

			Dsq.Utils.execScript('http://disqus.com/forums/jackandjillpolitics/subscribe.js'
				+'?status=' 	+ status
				+ '&slug='		+ 'the_autopsy_on_why_proposition_8_passed_hint_black_people_didn8217t_help_kill_it'
				+ '&email=' 	+ encodeURIComponent(email));

		} else if(!email) {
			// If anonymous user and no email has been provided yet, prompt for email

			var title = 'Subscribe to this comment thread';
			var message = ' \
				New comments will be sent directly to your email inbox! \
				<div class="dsq-subscribe-submit"> \
					<p><strong>Enter your email address below.</strong></p> \
					<input type="text" id="dsq-subscribe-email"> \
					<button onclick="Dsq.Thread.subscribe(1, Dsq.$(\'dsq-subscribe-email\').value)">Subscribe</button> \
				</div> \
			';

			Dsq.Popup.popModal(message, title);
		}
	};

	this.showSettings = function() {
		if (!Dsq.jsonData.request.is_moderator) {
			return;
		}

		/* The form has to be re-designed when more options will come out. */
		var html = 'Automatically close comments after <input size="3" id="dsq-thread-days-alive" value="' + Dsq.jsonData.thread.days_alive + '" type="text" /> days. Existing comments will still be displayed.<br /><br />(Using 0 days will disable this feature)<br /><br />'
								 + '<button onclick="Dsq.Thread.updateDaysAlive();" class="dsq-button-small"><span>Save</span></button>'
								 + '<span id="dsq-thread-settings-status" class="dsq-options-status"></span>';
		Dsq.Popup.popModal(html, 'Settings');
	};

	this.updateDaysAlive = function() {
		var days = Dsq.$('dsq-thread-days-alive').value;
		var status = Dsq.$('dsq-thread-settings-status');
		Dsq.Utils.postToUrl('http://disqus.com/forums/jackandjillpolitics/update_days_alive.js', {days:days,thread:Dsq.jsonData.thread.id});
		status.innerHTML = 'Saved!';
		window.setTimeout(function() { status.innerHTML = ''; }, 1000);
	};
};
// Dsq.Thread

Dsq.Events = function() {
	var obj = {};

	// Private
	var handlers = {};
	var getHandlers = function(event) {
		if (handlers[event] === undefined) {
			handlers[event] = [];
		}
		return handlers[event];
	};

	// Public
	// Value keys : postId, node, xtype
	obj.REPLY_IFRAME_CREATED = 1;
	// Value keys : postId, opened
	obj.REPLY_IFRAME_TOGGLED = 2;
	obj.fire = function(event, opt_value) {
		if (!event) {
			throw new Error('Unknown event');
		}
		var value = opt_value || {};
		for (var i=0; i<getHandlers(event).length; i++) {
			getHandlers(event)[i](value);
		}
	};
	obj.addHandler = function(event, callback) {
		getHandlers(event).push(callback);
	};

	return obj;
}();

/**
 * Dsq.Realtime
 */
Dsq.Realtime = new function() {
	var initialized = false;
	var interval = null;
	var last_checked = Dsq.jsonData.request.timestamp;
	var new_posts = [];
	var ongoing_request = false;
	var prev_script = null;

	function updateNewPostCount() {
		Dsq.$('dsq-realtime-alert').style.display = new_posts.length ? 'block' : 'none';

		Dsq.$('dsq-realtime-queued').innerHTML = new_posts.length
		+ ' new '
		+ Dsq.Utils.pluralize(new_posts.length, 'comment', 'comments')
		+ Dsq.Utils.pluralize(new_posts.length, ' was', ' were')
		+ ' just posted.';

		Dsq.$('dsq-realtime-show').innerHTML = '(' + Dsq.Strings.SHOW + ')';
	}

	function insertNewPosts() {
		var post_id = null;
		var after_id = Dsq.$('dsq-sort-select').value === 'oldest' ? -1 : null;

		for (var i=0; i<new_posts.length; i++) {
			post_id = new_posts[i];
			Dsq.Post.insert(after_id, post_id, Dsq.jsonData.posts[post_id].message);
			Dsq.Post.incrementPostCount();
			Dsq.Post.outlineComment(post_id);
		}
		new_posts = [];
	}

	this.enableInterval = function() {
		interval = setInterval(Dsq.Realtime.check, Dsq.jsonData.context.realtime_speed);
		Dsq.$('dsq-realtime-status').innerHTML = Dsq.Strings.ENABLED;
		Dsq.$('dsq-realtime-toggle').innerHTML = '(' + Dsq.Strings.PAUSE + ')';
	}

	this.disableInterval = function() {
		if (interval) {
			clearInterval(interval);
			interval = null;
		}
		Dsq.$('dsq-realtime-status').innerHTML = Dsq.Strings.PAUSED;
		Dsq.$('dsq-realtime-toggle').innerHTML = '(' + Dsq.Strings.RESUME + ')';
	}

	this.toggleInterval = function() {
		if (!interval) {
			Dsq.Realtime.enableInterval();
		} else {
			Dsq.Realtime.disableInterval();
		}
		return false;
	}

	this.initialize = function() {
		if (!initialized) {
			initialized = true;
			Dsq.$('dsq-realtime-toggle').onclick = this.toggleInterval;
			if (!Dsq.jsonData.forum.streaming_realtime) {
				Dsq.$('dsq-realtime-show').onclick = this.show;
				updateNewPostCount();
			}
			if (Dsq.jsonData.thread.realtime_paused) {
				Dsq.Realtime.disableInterval();
			} else {
				Dsq.Realtime.enableInterval();
			}
		}
	}

	this.show = function() {
		insertNewPosts();
		updateNewPostCount();
		return false;
	}

	this.check = function() {
		if (!ongoing_request && Dsq.jsonData.realtime_enabled) {
			if (prev_script) {
				prev_script.parentNode.removeChild(prev_script);
			}
			ongoing_request = true;
			prev_script = Dsq.Utils.execScript('http://disqus.com/forums/6896707/realtime.js?timestamp=' + last_checked);
		}
	};

	this.update = function(timestamp, posts, users) {
		ongoing_request = false;
		last_checked = timestamp;

		if (users) {
			for (var user_id in users) {
				if (users.hasOwnProperty(user_id)) {
					if (!Dsq.jsonData.users[user_id]) {
						Dsq.jsonData.users[user_id] = users[user_id];
					}
				}
			}
		}

		if (posts) {
			for (var post_id in posts) {
				if (posts.hasOwnProperty(post_id)) {
					if (!Dsq.jsonData.posts[post_id]) {
						Dsq.jsonData.posts[post_id] = posts[post_id];
						new_posts.push(post_id);
					}
				}
			}

			if (Dsq.jsonData.forum.streaming_realtime) {
				insertNewPosts();
			} else {
				updateNewPostCount();
			}
		}
	};

}();

// DEPRECATED
Dsq.Iframes = function() {
	// Different style of object from the above. Hoping to switch to this for some reason.
	var obj = {};

	// Private
	var showIframeInContainer = function(container, id, markup) {
		// Look through container for iframes, hiding them, except show one that matches id
		// If none of them matched id, create a new iframe using markup and insert it.
		// Returns the iframe node if and only if it was newly created.
		var found = false;
		for (var i=0; i<container.childNodes.length; i++) {
			var child = container.childNodes[i];
			if (child.nodeName == 'IFRAME') {
				if (child.id == id) {
					child.style.display = 'block';
					found = true;
				} else {
					child.style.display = 'none';
				}
			}
		}
		if (found) {
			return;
		}
		// The iframe wasn't found, so construct it and add it to the container.
		// Don't use innerHTML because it might reload iframes
		var div = document.createElement('div');
		div.innerHTML = markup;
		var iframe = div.childNodes[0];
		div.removeChild(iframe);
		container.appendChild(iframe);
		return iframe;
	};

	// Public
	obj.makeReplyIframeId = function(opt_postId, opt_xtype) {
		var id = 'dsq-post-add-iframe';
		if (opt_xtype) {
			id += '-' + opt_xtype;
		}
		if (opt_postId) {
			id += '-' + opt_postId;
		}
		return id;
	};
	obj.makeLoginIframeId = function(opt_postId) {
		if (!opt_postId) {
			return 'dsq-login-iframe';
		}
		return 'dsq-login-iframe-' + opt_postId;
	};
	obj.makeReplyIframeName = function(opt_postId, opt_xtype) {
		var name = 'dsq-reply-frame';
		if (opt_xtype) {
			name += '-' + opt_xtype;
		}
		if (opt_postId) {
			name += '-' + opt_postId;
		}
		return name;
	};
	obj.showReplyIframeInContainer = function(container, opt_postId, opt_extraParams, opt_className) {
		// Construct the id so we can check if it's already present.
		// Hide any other iframes we find, and show this one if it's found.
		var params = opt_extraParams || {};
		// use xtype in the id and name so we can distinguish media replies from text replies:
		var id = Dsq.Iframes.makeReplyIframeId(opt_postId, params.xtype);
		var name = Dsq.Iframes.makeReplyIframeName(opt_postId, params.xtype);
		var attributes = {
			'id': id,
			'name': name,
			'class': opt_className || 'dsq-post-reply'
			};
		var markup = Dsq.Templates.frameReply(opt_postId, opt_extraParams, attributes);
		var iframe = showIframeInContainer(container, id, markup);
		// It was newly created
		if (iframe) {
			Dsq.Events.fire(Dsq.Events.REPLY_IFRAME_CREATED, {
				postId: opt_postId,
				node: iframe,
				xtype: params.xtype
			});
		}
	};
	obj.showLoginIframeInContainer = function(container, opt_postId) {
		var id = Dsq.Iframes.makeLoginIframeId(opt_postId);
		var markup = Dsq.Templates.frameLogin({id: id});
		showIframeInContainer(container, id, markup);
	};
	obj.showReplyIframeInContainerIfAllowed = function(container, opt_postId) {
		if (Dsq.jsonData.context.show_reply) {
			obj.showReplyIframeInContainer(container, opt_postId);
		} else {
			obj.hideAllInContainer(container);
		}
	};
	obj.hideAllInContainer = function(container) {
		for (var i=0; i<container.childNodes.length; i++) {
			var child = container.childNodes[i];
			if (child.nodeName == 'IFRAME') {
				child.style.display = 'none';
			}
		}
	};

	return obj;
}();

Dsq.Twitter = new function() {
	var that = this;

	this.startTwitterConnect = function() {
		var popupParams = 'location=0,status=0,width=800,height=400';
		that._twitterWindow = window.open(Dsq.jsonData.settings.disqus_url + '/_ax/twitter/begin/', 'twitterWindow', popupParams);
		that._twitterInterval = window.setInterval(that.completeTwitterConnect, 1000);
	};

	this.completeTwitterConnect = function() {
		if (that._twitterWindow.closed) {
			window.clearInterval(that._twitterInterval);
			window.location.reload();
		}
	};
};

Dsq.Yahoo = new function() {
	var that = this;

	this.startYahooConnect = function() {
		var popupParams = 'location=0,status=0,width=800,height=400';
		that._yahooWindow = window.open(Dsq.jsonData.settings.disqus_url + '/_ax/yahoo/begin/', 'yahooWindow', popupParams);
		that._yahooInterval = window.setInterval(that.completeYahooConnect, 1000);
	};

	this.completeYahooConnect = function() {
		if (that._yahooWindow.closed) {
			window.clearInterval(that._yahooInterval);
			window.location.reload();
		}
	};
};

Dsq.OpenID = new function() {
	var that = this;

	this.requestURL = function() {
		var message = '<table class="dsq-openid-form"><tr><td style="vertical-align:top;" rowspan="2"><img src="' + Dsq.jsonData.settings.media_url + '/images/openid-icon-100x100.png" /></td>';
		message += '<td><label for="dsq-openid-url">OpenID URL:</label></td><td><input type="text" id="dsq-openid-url" /></td></tr>';
		message += '<tr><td><label for="dsq-openid-username">Display name:</label></td><td><input type="text" id="dsq-openid-username" /></td></tr>';
		message += '<tr><td class="dsq-openid-submit" colspan="3"><input type="button" value="Sign in" onclick="Dsq.OpenID.startConnect();" /></td></tr>';
		message += "</table>";

		Dsq.Popup.popModal(message, 'Sign in using OpenID');
	};

	this.startConnect = function() {
		var isblank = function(str) {
			return /^\s*$/.test(str);
		};

		var openid_url = Dsq.$('dsq-openid-url').value;
		var username = Dsq.$('dsq-openid-username').value;

		if (isblank(openid_url)) {
			return;
		}

		var popupParams = 'location=0,status=0,width=800,height=500';
		var url = Dsq.jsonData.settings.disqus_url + '/_ax/openid/begin/' + '?url=' + encodeURIComponent(openid_url) + '&username=' + encodeURIComponent(username);
		that._openidWindow = window.open(url, 'openidWindow', popupParams);
		that._openidInterval = window.setInterval(that.completeConnect, 1000);
	};

	this.completeConnect = function() {
		if (that._openidWindow.closed) {
			window.clearInterval(that._openidInterval);
			window.location.reload();
		}
	};
};

Dsq.Reaction = new function() {
	var that = this;

	this.hide = function(id) {
		Dsq.Utils.execScript('http://disqus.com/forums/jackandjillpolitics/hidereaction.js?' + 'reaction_id=' + id);
	};

	this.reportMissingReactions = function() {
		if (!Dsq.jsonData.request.is_moderator || !Dsq.jsonData.forum.reactions_enabled) {
			return;
		}

		if (Dsq.jsonData.thread.queued) {
			Dsq.Popup.popModal('Your report has been received. The system will automatically search for new reactions; if any are found, they will be displayed on this comment thread.<br/><br/>Thank&nbsp;you.',
												 'Reported missing reactions');
			return;
		}

		Dsq.Utils.execScript(Dsq.jsonData.settings.disqus_url + '/forums/jackandjillpolitics/queueurl.js');
	};
};

Dsq.CNN = function() {
	var obj = {};

	obj.authenticate = function() {
		var url = Dsq.jsonData.settings.disqus_url + "/saml/cnn/try/";
		Dsq.Utils.postToUrl(url, {'target': document.location}, true);
	};

	return obj;
}();


if(Dsq.Utils.ie6) {
	(function() {
		DSQ_HEADER_AVATAR_RE = /<div class="dsq-header-avatar"(.*?)>/gim;
		Dsq.Templates.registerFilter('postPrependHeader', function(html, post_id) {
			// Add "onmouseout" for dsq-header-avatar for dropProfile
			// functionality since IE6 cannot use :hover.
			function _headerAvatarReplace(content, inner, _unused, html) {
				return '<div class="dsq-header-avatar" '
					+ inner
					+ ' onmouseout="Dsq.Post.dropProfile(' + post_id + ')">';
			}
			html = html.replace(DSQ_HEADER_AVATAR_RE, _headerAvatarReplace);
			return html;
		});
	})();
}





	// TODO: Move Seesmic code outside of the main script.  Don't let this script clobber the global namespace.
	if(typeof seesmic == 'undefined') { var seesmic = {}; }
	seesmic.widget = new function () {
		this.callback = function (data) {
			playerVersion = data.disqusplayer;
		};
	};

	
	var scriptEl = document.createElement('script');
	scriptEl.setAttribute('type', 'text/javascript');
	scriptEl.setAttribute('src', 'http://seesmic.com/version.js?callback=seesmic.widget.callback');
	document.getElementsByTagName('head')[0].appendChild(scriptEl);

	
	var scriptEl = document.createElement('script');
	scriptEl.setAttribute('type', 'text/javascript');
	scriptEl.setAttribute('src', 'http://media.disqus.com/javascript/library/swfobject.js');
	document.getElementsByTagName('head')[0].appendChild(scriptEl);

	function see_play_video(_videoUri, _add) {
		var swf = !!playerVersion ? playerVersion : 'http://seesmic.com/embeds/StandalonePlayer.swf';

		flashcontentDiv = Dsq.$(_videoUri + '_content');
		previewDiv = Dsq.$('dsq-seesmic-' + _videoUri + '_preview');
		hideDiv = Dsq.$('dsq-seesmic-' + _videoUri + '_hide');
		showDiv = Dsq.$('dsq-seesmic-' + _videoUri + '_show');
		if(_add) {
			// push flash widget
			var so = new SWFObject(swf, 'sotester', '300', '270', '9', '#000000');
			so.addVariable('video', _videoUri);
			so.addParam('allowFullScreen', 'true');
			so.addParam('allowScriptAccess','always');
			so.useExpressInstall('swfobject/expressinstall.swf');
			so.write(_videoUri + '_content');

			previewDiv.style.display = 'none';
			hideDiv.style.display = 'block';
			showDiv.style.display = 'none';
		}
		else {
			flashcontentDiv.innerHTML = '';
			previewDiv.style.display = 'block';
			hideDiv.style.display = 'none';
			showDiv.style.display = 'block';
		}
	};





(function() {
	//
	// Load theme.  This overrides the base templates with template functions
	// from the respective themes.
	//
	if (Dsq.jsonData.integration.theme == 4) {
		var theme = 'narcissus';
		// HACK: Set variable on window to use post message.
		window.disqus_use_postmessage = true;

		
		for(var prop in Dsq.Themes[theme]) {
			if(Dsq.Themes[theme] && Dsq.Themes[theme].hasOwnProperty(prop)) {
				Dsq.Templates[prop] = Dsq.Themes[theme][prop];
			}
		}
		
		for(var prop in Dsq.Post) {
			if(Dsq.Themes[theme] && Dsq.Themes[theme].hasOwnProperty(prop)) {
				Dsq.Post[prop] = Dsq.Themes[theme][prop];
			}
		}
	}

	//
	// Register templates.  This must be done after all themes are loaded.
	//
	Dsq.Templates.registerTemplate('authPost', Dsq.Templates.authPost);
	Dsq.Templates.registerTemplate('header', Dsq.Templates.header);
	Dsq.Templates.registerTemplate('footer', Dsq.Templates.footer);
	Dsq.Templates.registerTemplate('trackbacks', Dsq.Templates.trackbacks);
	Dsq.Templates.registerTemplate('reactions', Dsq.Templates.reactions);
	Dsq.Templates.registerTemplate('prependPost', Dsq.Templates.prependPost);
	Dsq.Templates.registerTemplate('appendPost', Dsq.Templates.appendPost);
	Dsq.Templates.registerTemplate('postPrependHeader', Dsq.Templates.postPrependHeader);
	Dsq.Templates.registerTemplate('postAppendHeader', Dsq.Templates.postAppendHeader);
	Dsq.Templates.registerTemplate('preBody', Dsq.Templates.preBody);
	Dsq.Templates.registerTemplate('postBody', Dsq.Templates.postBody);
	Dsq.Templates.registerTemplate('postFooter', Dsq.Templates.postFooter);
	Dsq.Templates.registerTemplate('_popupGeneric', Dsq.Templates._popupGeneric);
	Dsq.Templates.registerTemplate('voted', Dsq.Templates.voted);
	Dsq.Templates.registerTemplate('popupProfile', Dsq.Templates.popupProfile);
	Dsq.Templates.registerTemplate('postBox', Dsq.Templates.postBox);
	Dsq.Templates.registerTemplate('pagination', Dsq.Templates.pagination);
	Dsq.Templates.registerTemplate('postComment_onSuccess', Dsq.Templates.postComment_onSuccess);

})();

Dsq.container.className = "clearfix";
Dsq.container.innerHTML = ' \
<ul id="dsq-comments">\
	 <li id="dsq-comment-3685784">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-header-3685784" class="dsq-comment-header">\
	 <cite id="dsq-cite-3685784" class="dsq-comment-cite">\
	 <span id="dsq-author-user-3685784">Michelle</span>\
	 </cite>\
	 </div>\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-body-3685784" class="dsq-comment-body">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-message-3685784" class="dsq-comment-message"><i>Longtime gay rights advocate Dean Trantalis of Fort Lauderdale, Fla., and others on the conference call expressed concern that the gay rights movement had become too focused on marriage, and is now paying the price in other more critical areas. “Marriage was never our issue,” Trantalis said. “It was thrust upon us by the other side, and they’ve done a very good job of beating us up over it.”</i><br><br>Well, seeing how incredibly intense some gay rights movement participants are about marriage as CRUCIAL GOAL, and how extremely nasty and ego-focused some of its proponents get when someone (like me, or Jasmynne Cannick or others) questions the orthodoxy of marriage being "our" central issue, I don\'t know if this is totally accurate. <br><br>Or, maybe it\'s just a matter of people getting caught up in the reaction. I don\'t know. But at this point I feel that the same-gender marriage proponents are likely to be every single bit as thoughtless and rigid and dogmatic as the anti-same-gender marriage people .... and I can\'t stand to talk to them at this point.<br><br>My position is that in these times, at this point, any movement that is rigid and dogmatic and ideological and essentially reactionary -- should fail. I know that\'s harsh. But that\'s how I feel things.<br><br>In my view, there are lessons, deep lessons, that movements can learn from what has happened in the election dynamics, from President-elect Obama and his approach. <br><br>I haven\'t learned everything I am going to learn from watching and reflecting on his approach and actions. Not yet, it goes too deep and I am still trying to understand all of it. But I do have some initial points of learning, and here they are:<br><br>1. Politics that base their call for change based on a person or group being victims of oppression are no longer particularly effective. The reason for this (or one of them) is that the other side, whatever it is, will immediately claim that THEY\'RE the victim (see: Hillary Clinton and white feminists as only one example) and then it becomes a never-ending pointless argument and persistently escalating drama about who is oppressed by whom, and very little or nothing actually gets done to deal with the problems at hand. President-elect Obama was IMO very wise to essentially bypass this dynamic in his campaign.<br><br>2. Focus on the rights of particular groups (calling on those who are not members of that group to support them for moral reasons etc) may not be as effective as a more practical focus on how we are all part of a larger collective -- the nation -- with work to do and responsibilities to each other. I never ever thought such a collective focus would be possible in this country, since it is so firmly rooted in disconnected individualism. But President-elect Obama has demonstrated that this may be changing -- I think that social movements should consider what they can do to catch up to this development.<br><br>3. Ideology and ideologically-based approaches are poor guides for effective action toward change. Ideologically-based movements rely on the creation of a disconnected dramatic narrative, often "us versus them" and almost always oversimplifies actual reality. <br><br>The ideologically-based narrative often requires a move away from the grounded realities of our lives and history. This creates a situation where critical reflection and acknowledging that sometimes we are wrong becomes a threat to the movement, since it might expose the unreality of the narrative. <br><br>In contrast, President-elect Obama focused on the way that people\'s "stories" -- actually grounded in our real lives -- could function as a base for the goal of getting him elected. <br><br>4. Individual-based ego and identity is not necessary for motivation toward change. There was an excellent comment that has been posted twice now in open threads that quoted David Axelrod:<br><br><b>"My fundamental concern for him wasn\'t whether he had the capacity, \'cause I think he\'s the smartest guy that I\'ve ever worked with or known," [David] Axelrod said.<br><br>"But it was whether he had that pathological drive to be president. You know, so often, what defines presidential candidates is this need to be president, to define themselves. He didn\'t have that. And, you know, we told him, \'You\'re gonna have to find some other way to motivate yourself.\' And he did, which was what he could do as president."</b><br><br><a href="http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/11/07/60minutes/main4584507.shtml" rel="nofollow">Source</a><br><br>I was involved in various social movements for two decades, starting in the mid-1980s and ending about a year and a half ago. Over and over I saw that the ideological narrative often supported people in getting their ego and identity wrapped up in their motivation and work. This leads to a whole lot of defensiveness and drama when things get difficult (which they almost always do) and seriously obstructs clarity about goals and strategy and tactic, and is a barrier to success. Ego and identity as motivation is a huge barrier to the necessary discipline that change work requires.<br><br>I think that the Marriage Equality movement displays some of the worst traits of social movements as I mentioned them above (as well as persistent white supremacy and class privilege), and that it needs to be corrected -- either through a death-rebirth cycle, or through being allowed to die and having other LGBT movements emerge in its place as the center of the work.<br><br>And, I really think that careful attention to how President-elect Obama has conducted the work is a deep well of wisdom that has a lot of good information applicable to many movement contexts. <br><br>I am still learning so this is just where I am at with it right now.</div>\
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	 </li>\
	 <li id="dsq-comment-3685954">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-header-3685954" class="dsq-comment-header">\
	 <cite id="dsq-cite-3685954" class="dsq-comment-cite">\
	 <span id="dsq-author-user-3685954">Lilytiger</span>\
	 </cite>\
	 </div>\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-body-3685954" class="dsq-comment-body">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-message-3685954" class="dsq-comment-message">Very thoughtful and thought provoking.</div>\
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	 </li>\
	 <li id="dsq-comment-3695068">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-header-3695068" class="dsq-comment-header">\
	 <cite id="dsq-cite-3695068" class="dsq-comment-cite">\
	 <span id="dsq-author-user-3695068">Michelle</span>\
	 </cite>\
	 </div>\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-body-3695068" class="dsq-comment-body">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-message-3695068" class="dsq-comment-message">Thanks, Lilytiger. I am extremely extremely grateful that JJP is a context where I can post stuff like this.</div>\
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	 </li>\
	 <li id="dsq-comment-3694531">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-header-3694531" class="dsq-comment-header">\
	 <cite id="dsq-cite-3694531" class="dsq-comment-cite">\
	 <a id="dsq-author-user-3694531" href="http://craighickman.blogspot.com" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">CraigHickman</a>\
	 </cite>\
	 </div>\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-body-3694531" class="dsq-comment-body">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-message-3694531" class="dsq-comment-message">The ego is a big problem with social movements, but with the "gay marriage movement" in particular. When I hear my sisters and brothers say things such as, "It feels like somebody just invalidated my love" I have to wonder what their love is based on in the first place. Love doesn\'t need anybody\'s acceptance or approval.<br><br>I\'m a firm believer that marriage is purely a spiritual thing. I understand civil rights and benefits and all of that, but at the end of the day, no one outside of your relationship can define it <i>for</i> you.<br><br>And I certainly take issue with those that believe that people in same-sex relationships don\'t contribute to family and society or have no role in the community of humankind. The whole of human history proves this patently false on its face.<br><br>I like the lessons you are learning from Barack\'s campaign. Something tells me I\'m learning the same things, I just express it differently.<br><br>Thanks for your thoughts.</div>\
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	 </li>\
	 <li id="dsq-comment-3695109">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-header-3695109" class="dsq-comment-header">\
	 <cite id="dsq-cite-3695109" class="dsq-comment-cite">\
	 <span id="dsq-author-user-3695109">Michelle</span>\
	 </cite>\
	 </div>\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-body-3695109" class="dsq-comment-body">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-message-3695109" class="dsq-comment-message">And thank YOU, Craig.  <br><br><i>The ego is a big problem with social movements, but with the "gay marriage movement" in particular. When I hear my sisters and brothers say things such as, "It feels like somebody just invalidated my love" I have to wonder what their love is based on in the first place. Love doesn\'t need anybody\'s acceptance or approval.</i><br><br>My girlfriend and I have been talking about this exact thing lately! Yes.<br><br><i>I like the lessons you are learning from Barack\'s campaign. Something tells me I\'m learning the same things, I just express it differently.</i><br><br>Especially given how very much I respect your perspective on things, Craig, I am really glad to hear this.</div>\
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	 </li>\
	 <li id="dsq-comment-3698281">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-header-3698281" class="dsq-comment-header">\
	 <cite id="dsq-cite-3698281" class="dsq-comment-cite">\
	 <span id="dsq-author-user-3698281">whiterosebuddy</span>\
	 </cite>\
	 </div>\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-body-3698281" class="dsq-comment-body">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-message-3698281" class="dsq-comment-message">Soceity did not grant the institution of marriage benefits to validate personal love relationships.<br><br>Marriage as an institution is a set of laws to benefit society, not the individual.<br><br>That is the biggest problem with the gay agenda. Marriage is not about individual rights as there is no such right granted in the constitution.</div>\
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	 </li>\
	 <li id="dsq-comment-3696850">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-header-3696850" class="dsq-comment-header">\
	 <cite id="dsq-cite-3696850" class="dsq-comment-cite">\
	 <a id="dsq-author-user-3696850" href="http://sooncome.blogspot.com/" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">JunePearl</a>\
	 </cite>\
	 </div>\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-body-3696850" class="dsq-comment-body">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-message-3696850" class="dsq-comment-message">*Standing Ovation*<br><br>Very poignant note. I think that your observations truly touch on what the Obama campaign was able to do in terms of revolutionizing how <i>all</i> underdog social movements can function and be successful.<br><br>From what you\'re saying, it seems that there needs to be a transformation within the movement. Or for the more race/class inclusive voices in the movement to become the ones to set the agenda. Very good read, I appreciate your willingness to be open here on jjp, I feel like I am learning so much.</div>\
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	 </li>\
	 <li id="dsq-comment-3714534">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-header-3714534" class="dsq-comment-header">\
	 <cite id="dsq-cite-3714534" class="dsq-comment-cite">\
	 <span id="dsq-author-user-3714534">Michelle</span>\
	 </cite>\
	 </div>\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-body-3714534" class="dsq-comment-body">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-message-3714534" class="dsq-comment-message">Thank you so much JunePeral.  I am really grateful to be learning what I think I am learning (who knew I would ever learn lessons about social change from a Presidential candidate/President-elect? I never would have guess that would happen!) and very happy if it is use to others...</div>\
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	 </li>\
	 <li id="dsq-comment-3714547">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-header-3714547" class="dsq-comment-header">\
	 <cite id="dsq-cite-3714547" class="dsq-comment-cite">\
	 <span id="dsq-author-user-3714547">Michelle</span>\
	 </cite>\
	 </div>\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-body-3714547" class="dsq-comment-body">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-message-3714547" class="dsq-comment-message">I meant JunePearl<br><br>Sorry for the typo.</div>\
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	 </li>\
	 <li id="dsq-comment-3705285">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-header-3705285" class="dsq-comment-header">\
	 <cite id="dsq-cite-3705285" class="dsq-comment-cite">\
	 <a id="dsq-author-user-3705285" href="http://baratunde.com" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">baratunde</a>\
	 </cite>\
	 </div>\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-body-3705285" class="dsq-comment-body">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-message-3705285" class="dsq-comment-message">this is on point. i\'m off to speak on News & Notes and will try to attribute some comments to you. thanks for being here.</div>\
	 </div>\
	 </li>\
	 <li id="dsq-comment-3714497">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-header-3714497" class="dsq-comment-header">\
	 <cite id="dsq-cite-3714497" class="dsq-comment-cite">\
	 <span id="dsq-author-user-3714497">Michelle</span>\
	 </cite>\
	 </div>\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-body-3714497" class="dsq-comment-body">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-message-3714497" class="dsq-comment-message">Wow, thank you Jack. If what I say is of use, I am happy, whether or not it is attributed to me specifically.</div>\
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	 </li>\
	 <li id="dsq-comment-3677888">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-header-3677888" class="dsq-comment-header">\
	 <cite id="dsq-cite-3677888" class="dsq-comment-cite">\
	 <a id="dsq-author-user-3677888" href="http://www.bigassbelle.blogspot.com" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">bigassbelle</a>\
	 </cite>\
	 </div>\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-body-3677888" class="dsq-comment-body">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-message-3677888" class="dsq-comment-message">When will black churches adopt your approach? I don\'t understand how it\'s possible to expect ~ justifiably ~ equal rights in terms of race while making discrimination against others based on sexual orientation a tenet of faith. Makes me crazy. Equal rights for all people. End of story. It\'s just not that hard. <br><br>Oh, and your Bible? It\'s <i>your</i> guiding force, it\'s personal. My "Bible" is the AA Big Book. It\'s personal. Someone else\'s bible might be the Koran and that is personal too. A big part of this fight is that we can\'t keep religion in its proper place in this society.</div>\
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	 </li>\
	 <li id="dsq-comment-3678553">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-header-3678553" class="dsq-comment-header">\
	 <cite id="dsq-cite-3678553" class="dsq-comment-cite">\
	 <a id="dsq-author-user-3678553" href="http://theurbanista2.wordpress.com/" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">Rhondacoca</a>\
	 </cite>\
	 </div>\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-body-3678553" class="dsq-comment-body">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-message-3678553" class="dsq-comment-message">The issues is that this is a court issue. If you give it to the people, they will vote based on their personal beliefs and religion. Its that simple. The courts need to enforce the separation between church and state.<br><br>BigAssBelle,<br><br>I believe that I heard you say once on this blog before that you were not black. Mabye that explains why you fail to understand that the black church is conservative and biblical. There are some sectors that are social gospel who are not but the majority these days are. They do not see sexual orientation and race as the same thing because from the many that I have spoken to, there still seems to be an ignorance believing that sexual orientation is a choice while race is not.<br><br>Also, if there is a separation between church and state then that means that the church should be left alone. They should not have tp change because they are being demanded by the state and vice versa.<br><br>Lastly, most AA\'s do not align or understand the correlation between LGBT rights and Civil Rights. What has complicated it is what I have written above as well as the fact that the LGBT rights movement has become to narrow.</div>\
	 </div>\
	 </li>\
	 <li id="dsq-comment-3680509">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-header-3680509" class="dsq-comment-header">\
	 <cite id="dsq-cite-3680509" class="dsq-comment-cite">\
	 <a id="dsq-author-user-3680509" href="http://www.bigassbelle.blogspot.com" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">bigassbelle</a>\
	 </cite>\
	 </div>\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-body-3680509" class="dsq-comment-body">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-message-3680509" class="dsq-comment-message">Rhondacoca, I think that the church ~ all of them ~ does much to encourage folks to believe that homosexuality is a choice. Every religious leader I listen to on radio or television insists that it is a choice.<br><br>I have yet to hear any single person, religious or otherwise, able to tell me when they <i>made the decision</i> to be straight. <br><br>Although I\'m not black, I do understand very well the conservative and biblical nature of the black church. All I\'m saying is that an effort could be made to change hearts and minds.<br><br>I don\'t understand why others should suffer because of the beliefs of religious people. <br><br>It\'s my hope that court action will be taken; you\'re right that it will take legislation to enforce the rights of individuals, just as with civil rights in the \'60s.<br><br>CPL ~ I think that the 12 step experience opens mind and hearts to a degree, at least for many people. The thing that gets me, is that so many people are driven to some of the more judgmental, condemning churches under the lash of some personal agony or experience. To then buy into the hate propaganda promoted by so many churches just doesn\'t make sense to me. <br><br>My father-in-law, a rabid Baptist, used to say "some of the sickest people in the world are sitting in the church pew come Sunday morning." Hate is a sickness. Although we disagreed on many things, I think he was right on this point, bless his heart.</div>\
	 </div>\
	 </li>\
	 <li id="dsq-comment-3680668">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-header-3680668" class="dsq-comment-header">\
	 <cite id="dsq-cite-3680668" class="dsq-comment-cite">\
	 <a id="dsq-author-user-3680668" href="http://www.jackandjillpolitics.com" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">CPL</a>\
	 </cite>\
	 </div>\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-body-3680668" class="dsq-comment-body">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-message-3680668" class="dsq-comment-message">Belle, my father came from a long line of preachers and used to say the same thing about the sickest people in the world sitting in the church pews on Sundays.<br><br>As I recall, he usually cried "Bullshyt" on all of it, and he was a believing Christian, who always told me to seek my own relationship with God and not to allow anyone else to define my relationship with God for me.<br><br>Now, I\'m taking his advice, and I find myself more at peace with my decision to break away from old styles of worship because they just didn\'t work for me.</div>\
	 </div>\
	 </li>\
	 <li id="dsq-comment-3681030">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-header-3681030" class="dsq-comment-header">\
	 <cite id="dsq-cite-3681030" class="dsq-comment-cite">\
	 <span id="dsq-author-user-3681030">whiterosebuddy</span>\
	 </cite>\
	 </div>\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-body-3681030" class="dsq-comment-body">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-message-3681030" class="dsq-comment-message">Having a relationship with God does not mean you are a Christian though.<br><br>Everyone can have a relationship with God, but to be a Christian you must adhere to the tenets of the Christian faith.</div>\
	 </div>\
	 </li>\
	 <li id="dsq-comment-3682206">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-header-3682206" class="dsq-comment-header">\
	 <cite id="dsq-cite-3682206" class="dsq-comment-cite">\
	 <a id="dsq-author-user-3682206" href="http://www.jackandjillpolitics.com" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">CPL</a>\
	 </cite>\
	 </div>\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-body-3682206" class="dsq-comment-body">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-message-3682206" class="dsq-comment-message">You don\'t get to make that call, either, WhiteRose Buddy.<br><br>Has Jesus called on you to start condemning people outright?  How do you save souls when you\'re too busy condemning people because they don\'t think in lockstep with you?<br><br>How does it feel to pronounce yourself God Almighty?  Cause that\'s what you\'ve just done by pronouncing me Not a Christian.<br><br>I don\'t know too many practicing Christians who are doing that because they have at least studied the Biblical scripture that clearly states,  "Judge not, lest ye be judged with the same measure you have judged others."<br><br>Your lack of mercy indicates you will be judged the same way.  You have no right to tell me whether or not I am a Christian.  Ask your Pastor about THAT.</div>\
	 </div>\
	 </li>\
	 <li id="dsq-comment-3685118">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-header-3685118" class="dsq-comment-header">\
	 <cite id="dsq-cite-3685118" class="dsq-comment-cite">\
	 <span id="dsq-author-user-3685118">whiterosebuddy</span>\
	 </cite>\
	 </div>\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-body-3685118" class="dsq-comment-body">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-message-3685118" class="dsq-comment-message">I didn\'t condemn you. I made a factual statement. Believeing in God is not the same as Christianity.<br>Jews beleive in God also, they have a relationship with God, but they are not Christians.<br><br>You simply have a lot of emotion and far less rational reasoning around the issues of religion.  You get defensive and attempt to knock others for stating the truth.<br><br>What you also consistently do is misquote biblical principles, and Christian beliefs.  For instance this way you have, like many, to take the judge not lest ye be judged out of context.<br><br>This is the verse so many use to try to shame Christians for discerning poor behavior, ethics, morals, and values.<br><br>Christianity calls upon it\'s believers to judge. God, the one you have the relationship expects you to judge. In fact, he granted you free will so that you could judge.<br>His view is that you are not a good Christian unless you can judge and discern what to choose.<br><br>What you are calling judging is actually accountability. According to the Christian tenets and beliefs, christians are called to hold other christians accountable to adhering to the Christian faith.<br><br>What you have  tried to do is twist accountability into being judgemental as if someone is being derisive of you or demeaning you.<br><br>That is not what judge not lest you be judged means. It means do not hold a Christian accountable if you yourself are not accountable as a Christian. However, as a believer you are expected to hold other Christians accountable.<br><br> In 1Cor. 6:2-3 Jesus authorizes Christians to judge. Judge they must else they could not discern good from bad, proper from improper, righteousness from evil. But judge behavior,  not the individual; the deed  not the doer; the choice  not the chooser.<br><br> The individual/doer/chooser is accountable for his/her deed/choice, but judge the deed/choice in your judgment. . So while Christians must judge one\'s behavior they must  try to nurture the goodness in an individual: to separate the deed from the doer.<br><br>Recall, I said in my initial post...hate the sin not the sinner?<br><br><br><br>There is a difference between someone holding you accountable and expecting your actions to match what you claim are  your beliefs and someone trying to control you.<br><br>Sorta like the difference between surrender and defeat.<br><br>When you surrender unto God it does not mean you are defeated and unaccountable.<br><br>I just think you need to realize that you are hearing mercy<br>.<br>Mercy that knows you have twisted the Christian faith into some \'hateful\' mindset and that it is not a universal truth at all what you state about the black church or many many many Christians. <br><br>And hopeful, you will not try to shame folks with that \'judge not less ye be judged\' again either.<br><br>Christians that adhere to Christian beliefs would know these tenets.</div>\
	 </div>\
	 </li>\
	 <li id="dsq-comment-3685238">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-header-3685238" class="dsq-comment-header">\
	 <cite id="dsq-cite-3685238" class="dsq-comment-cite">\
	 <a id="dsq-author-user-3685238" href="http://www.jackandjillpolitics.com" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">CPL</a>\
	 </cite>\
	 </div>\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-body-3685238" class="dsq-comment-body">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-message-3685238" class="dsq-comment-message">And once again, you\'re assuming I don\'t adhere to these tenets.<br><br>And once again, I\'m respectfully asking you to refrain from posting comments to me on this.<br><br>And once again, you ignore my requests, believing you have refuted my positions and yet saying you aren\'t judging me.  I would ask you to explain what you call it, but I\'m no interested in discussing this issue with you anymore.  You don\'t respect a person\'s opinions and you ride roughshod over what is personal experiences because YOU don\'t agree with them.</div>\
	 </div>\
	 </li>\
	 <li id="dsq-comment-3685645">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-header-3685645" class="dsq-comment-header">\
	 <cite id="dsq-cite-3685645" class="dsq-comment-cite">\
	 <span id="dsq-author-user-3685645">whiterosebuddy</span>\
	 </cite>\
	 </div>\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-body-3685645" class="dsq-comment-body">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-message-3685645" class="dsq-comment-message">I didn\'t ride roughshod over your opinions. I rebutted them and you were unable to support them. That\'s what happended.<br><br>I didn\'t assume you did not adhere to the tenets..you denounced Christianty yourself along with the black church and you took the \'judge not lest ye be judged\' out of context.<br><br>I assumed nothing.<br>I respected you. You failed to respect yourself and present a cogent rational argument to support all that balderdash and hate you wrote about Christianity and the black church.<br><br>I don\'t have to be a Christian to stand up for the black church or Christianity.<br><br>I stand up for the truth.<br><br>I respect opinions that are honest, truthful or made in good faith.<br><br>Your dogged persistence and inability to acknowledge you were inaccurate and stereotyping the black church and christianity does not merit respect.<br><br>Only the truth does.<br><br>Again, I apologize for any hurt feelings or pain you may have...but you do not get to strike out at the black church or Christianity simply because you in pain, no more than you get to murder someone cause they made you anger.<br><br>I will pray for you to find peace with regards to your Christian beliefs and I will especially pray that you be granted clarity and discernment to reach inner peace from all your cognitive dissonance on religion.</div>\
	 </div>\
	 </li>\
	 <li id="dsq-comment-3685812">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-header-3685812" class="dsq-comment-header">\
	 <cite id="dsq-cite-3685812" class="dsq-comment-cite">\
	 <a id="dsq-author-user-3685812" href="http://www.jackandjillpolitics.com" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">CPL</a>\
	 </cite>\
	 </div>\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-body-3685812" class="dsq-comment-body">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-message-3685812" class="dsq-comment-message">Once again, if you\'re not a practicing Christian, how do you justify all of what you have said, or the fact that nearly 90% of what you\'ve posted here has been to bully and harass my opinions.<br><br>I\'ve stated my experiences - you took them as wholesale indictment.<br><br>For the last time - LEAVE ME ALONE.  I am not a MAN, I stood by what I\'ve said - I have no need to refute what has been MY EXPERIENCES.<br><br>In fact, I personally think you used me to present yourself as being superior and beating me down because I don\'t agree with the habit most Black Churches have of condemning and tearing people down.  Does it escape your notice that Black People are being wholly blamed for the passage of Prop 8?<br><br>Your attitude and your responses do nothing more than CONFIRM THEIR ALLEGATIONS.<br><br>Now, RunTelDat, cause I\'m through.</div>\
	 </div>\
	 </li>\
	 <li id="dsq-comment-3686330">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-header-3686330" class="dsq-comment-header">\
	 <cite id="dsq-cite-3686330" class="dsq-comment-cite">\
	 <span id="dsq-author-user-3686330">whiterosebuddy</span>\
	 </cite>\
	 </div>\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-body-3686330" class="dsq-comment-body">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-message-3686330" class="dsq-comment-message">As long as you make false allegations about me personally....I will respond.<br><br>Once again, I need not be Christian nor practice the Christian faith to understand the religion or know its principles and tenets.  I used Christianity as the basis to rebut you as that is what YOU chose to attack.<br><br>I am not superior to you in any way. I simply happen to have a far greater understanding of the Christian religion because I studied it along with several others.<br><br>As a spiritual being having a human experience on earth I sought out answers to the meaning of life. One of the things I did was study religion. Particularly as it has such a profound impact on the black community. Yet there were so many incongruent things stated in church that I could not wrap my mind around. Thus my quest for understanding of my own spirit led me to study religion.<br><br>I believe in God, not religion. And there are those who say that God is an imaginary friend for adults.<br><br>It did not escape my notice that the MSM was scapegoating the black community for prop 8. I talked about why that was politically expedient in the first thread posted about that which you put up.<br><br>My responses confirm & assert the factual truths I know about homosexuals. Those fact based opinions have nothing to do with me being black and they certainly are not due to any Christian beliefs.<br><br>So their allegations are false. NOT VALIDATED nor CONFIRM by me or what you call my \'attitude"  Even if you disagree with my \'attitude\' That is what I was hoping you would see. The black church, black people nor black Christians are the problem here.<br><br>The problem is that homosexuality is incompatible with the goals of society and offers no benefit to family and community life.<br><br>Don\'t have a friggin thing to do with race or blacks and their religious beliefs.  Which was my main point.  I am black but I am not Christian and I would have voted YES on Prop 8 with a quickness.<br><br>Now, to quote you<br>RunTelDat</div>\
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	 </li>\
	 <li id="dsq-comment-3696117">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-header-3696117" class="dsq-comment-header">\
	 <cite id="dsq-cite-3696117" class="dsq-comment-cite">\
	 <span id="dsq-author-user-3696117">JJai</span>\
	 </cite>\
	 </div>\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-body-3696117" class="dsq-comment-body">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-message-3696117" class="dsq-comment-message">who are you praying to?</div>\
	 </div>\
	 </li>\
	 <li id="dsq-comment-3698796">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-header-3698796" class="dsq-comment-header">\
	 <cite id="dsq-cite-3698796" class="dsq-comment-cite">\
	 <span id="dsq-author-user-3698796">whiterosebuddy</span>\
	 </cite>\
	 </div>\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-body-3698796" class="dsq-comment-body">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-message-3698796" class="dsq-comment-message">God</div>\
	 </div>\
	 </li>\
	 <li id="dsq-comment-3696106">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-header-3696106" class="dsq-comment-header">\
	 <cite id="dsq-cite-3696106" class="dsq-comment-cite">\
	 <span id="dsq-author-user-3696106">JJai</span>\
	 </cite>\
	 </div>\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-body-3696106" class="dsq-comment-body">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-message-3696106" class="dsq-comment-message">sorry, WRB in Corinthians Paul is talking to the church at Corinth. He is saying they should call out other believers members of their church. The reasoning behind this is accountability among those who have made a committment to Christ. I can\'t recall a scripture which states instructs Christians to push their beliefs on others or judge them.<br><br>Our lives should be our testimony not necesarily our words.</div>\
	 </div>\
	 </li>\
	 <li id="dsq-comment-3698786">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-header-3698786" class="dsq-comment-header">\
	 <cite id="dsq-cite-3698786" class="dsq-comment-cite">\
	 <span id="dsq-author-user-3698786">whiterosebuddy</span>\
	 </cite>\
	 </div>\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-body-3698786" class="dsq-comment-body">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-message-3698786" class="dsq-comment-message">Yes, that is what I said. Christians should hold other Christians accountable. CPL claimed Christianity as her faith.<br><br>No one is pushing a faith on CPL. she acknowledges she is Christian. And Corithin does instruct Chtistians to judge other Christians behaviors.<br><br>Which I noted as  judge the sin not the sinner or hate the sin not the sinner. So behaviors can be judged in Christianity and Christians are called to do so.<br><br>I agree that Christian tenets ask for deeds vs. words to demonstrate faith.<br><br>Is that not James..what good is faith without works?</div>\
	 </div>\
	 </li>\
	 <li id="dsq-comment-3680789">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-header-3680789" class="dsq-comment-header">\
	 <cite id="dsq-cite-3680789" class="dsq-comment-cite">\
	 <a id="dsq-author-user-3680789" href="http://www.jackandjillpolitics.com" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">CPL</a>\
	 </cite>\
	 </div>\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-body-3680789" class="dsq-comment-body">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-message-3680789" class="dsq-comment-message">Oh, and if you ask if a person chose to be straight, the usual answer is "I was born straight."<br><br>All I\'ll say is that I knew when I was five years old that I liked boys. No rhyme or reason - I just liked and were attracted to boys at a very early age.  Not sexual attraction; just attraction.<br><br>I\'ve also had gay people tell me that they never made a "decision" to be gay - many also said they knew at an early age that their attractions were different. I\'ve also watched boys I grew up with who turned out to be gay, go through childhoods where their fathers tried to beat the "gay" out of them.  They always tell me, "Do you think I would CHOOSE this type of hell - being gay?"<br><br>Until I get scientific proof that being gay is a choice, I\'m going to believe people are probably born with it, and then there are some who become gay because of sexual abuse from an opposite sex family member.  Go figure on that one.</div>\
	 </div>\
	 </li>\
	 <li id="dsq-comment-3680997">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-header-3680997" class="dsq-comment-header">\
	 <cite id="dsq-cite-3680997" class="dsq-comment-cite">\
	 <span id="dsq-author-user-3680997">whiterosebuddy</span>\
	 </cite>\
	 </div>\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-body-3680997" class="dsq-comment-body">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-message-3680997" class="dsq-comment-message">There is no scientific proof that demonstrates gay IS a choice. If there were a gay gene the genome project which was completed would have discovered that.<br><br>Human sexuality preferences occur on a spectrum just like most human behaviors.  <br><br>You ask when do people choose to be gay as if that is the choice. The choice is to act on the behavior.  We choose whether to kill, steal, lie, cheat and to have sex. We choose to do that. We know that is a choice because folks can be celibate, promiscuous and monogamous.  All of these are choices.  We are human beings and as such we are not compelled to act on impulses like animals.<br><br>Ergo, homosexuality is a choice. The individual chooses to engage in that sexual behavior.<br><br>Because sex is pleasurable indivdiuals can desire homosexuality once they are in the lingo of the streets \'turned out\'.   You could like pie and not ever choose apple pie, but once someone force-fed you apple pie...you might find yourself seeking apple pie ever thereafter even though the initial exposure was mean and abusive.</div>\
	 </div>\
	 </li>\
	 <li id="dsq-comment-3682284">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-header-3682284" class="dsq-comment-header">\
	 <cite id="dsq-cite-3682284" class="dsq-comment-cite">\
	 <a id="dsq-author-user-3682284" href="http://www.actsoffaithblog.com" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">Acts Of Faith Blog</a>\
	 </cite>\
	 </div>\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-body-3682284" class="dsq-comment-body">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-message-3682284" class="dsq-comment-message">We choose whether to stand in judgement of others and declare ourselves better and more moral. We choose to be hateful and unyielding as well. We choose to be unmerciful - yet notice how when murdered are caught they beg for....you got it mercy...</div>\
	 </div>\
	 </li>\
	 <li id="dsq-comment-3682398">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-header-3682398" class="dsq-comment-header">\
	 <cite id="dsq-cite-3682398" class="dsq-comment-cite">\
	 <a id="dsq-author-user-3682398" href="http://www.jackandjillpolitics.com" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">CPL</a>\
	 </cite>\
	 </div>\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-body-3682398" class="dsq-comment-body">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-message-3682398" class="dsq-comment-message">And they know damned well they showed no mercy when they killed the person they killed - and why should they be shown mercy when they\'ve taken a life?<br><br>Yet when you stumble as a Christian, you\'re slung under the bus and condemned for not being a better "Christian".<br><br>WhiteRoseBuddy has caused me a great deal of pain with her comments and how she always targets me because of my screen name.  And I bet she feels justified in her comments, too.</div>\
	 </div>\
	 </li>\
	 <li id="dsq-comment-3682618">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-header-3682618" class="dsq-comment-header">\
	 <cite id="dsq-cite-3682618" class="dsq-comment-cite">\
	 <span id="dsq-author-user-3682618">Justice58</span>\
	 </cite>\
	 </div>\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-body-3682618" class="dsq-comment-body">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-message-3682618" class="dsq-comment-message">I love you!<br><br>Don\'t be upset!  Be calm!</div>\
	 </div>\
	 </li>\
	 <li id="dsq-comment-3682802">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-header-3682802" class="dsq-comment-header">\
	 <cite id="dsq-cite-3682802" class="dsq-comment-cite">\
	 <a id="dsq-author-user-3682802" href="http://www.jackandjillpolitics.com" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">CPL</a>\
	 </cite>\
	 </div>\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-body-3682802" class="dsq-comment-body">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-message-3682802" class="dsq-comment-message">Thanks, Justice, for the virtual hug.<br><br>I will repeat this, Christians like WRB cause me so much pain, I had to leave the church I attended, because of the judgmentalism and lack of mercy.</div>\
	 </div>\
	 </li>\
	 <li id="dsq-comment-3683134">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-header-3683134" class="dsq-comment-header">\
	 <cite id="dsq-cite-3683134" class="dsq-comment-cite">\
	 <a id="dsq-author-user-3683134" href="http://www.actsoffaithblog.com" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">Acts Of Faith Blog</a>\
	 </cite>\
	 </div>\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-body-3683134" class="dsq-comment-body">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-message-3683134" class="dsq-comment-message">Many of us have had to reevaluate what we actually believe versus what we\'ve been taught to believe. I think a total reassessment would do us all good! I used to be belong to a very rigid church that even told women to wear layered long clothes because men could be tempted. As if we were solely responsible for their choice because they were \'weaker\'. Why should that have been my responsibility? I had to leave and thought I\'d be struck by lightning or hit by a car die and go to hell. So obviously I was angry at "God" for years because who can live like that.</div>\
	 </div>\
	 </li>\
	 <li id="dsq-comment-3683609">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-header-3683609" class="dsq-comment-header">\
	 <cite id="dsq-cite-3683609" class="dsq-comment-cite">\
	 <a id="dsq-author-user-3683609" href="http://www.jackandjillpolitics.com" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">CPL</a>\
	 </cite>\
	 </div>\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-body-3683609" class="dsq-comment-body">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-message-3683609" class="dsq-comment-message">Exactly, HeartsAndFlowers.  Who can live under such dogmatic application and not have any vestiges of life sucked out of them?<br><br>Everyone I\'ve seen living this way are dry, rigid, unforgiving and there\'s no spirit to them.  They\'re DRY, and I have to get away from them with their laundry list of how to live as a Christian, but if they stray off the list, they are as merciless with themselves as they are with anyone else.</div>\
	 </div>\
	 </li>\
	 <li id="dsq-comment-3684777">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-header-3684777" class="dsq-comment-header">\
	 <cite id="dsq-cite-3684777" class="dsq-comment-cite">\
	 <span id="dsq-author-user-3684777">whiterosebuddy</span>\
	 </cite>\
	 </div>\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-body-3684777" class="dsq-comment-body">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-message-3684777" class="dsq-comment-message">What you are describing heartsandflowers is denominational tenets  vs. the christian tenets set forth in the bible.<br><br>You might want to look up a group call Bible Study Fellowship or BSF it is a national organization.<br><br>It focuses solely on the tenets of Christianity vs. denominational tenets.<br><br>You will probably find it uplifting as they teach you the bible not a specific denominational tenet.<br><br>There are many Catholics like you who have been angry with God until they studied the bible vs. catholicism.</div>\
	 </div>\
	 </li>\
	 <li id="dsq-comment-3684951">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-header-3684951" class="dsq-comment-header">\
	 <cite id="dsq-cite-3684951" class="dsq-comment-cite">\
	 <a id="dsq-author-user-3684951" href="http://www.actsoffaithblog.com" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">Acts Of Faith Blog</a>\
	 </cite>\
	 </div>\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-body-3684951" class="dsq-comment-body">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-message-3684951" class="dsq-comment-message">Nope. I am not Catholic and never have been. If you had actually studied any of these Christian tenants you espouse you\'d notice the difference. The Old Testament applies a lot of Jewish laws. 632 to be exact. So when people like to pick certain chapters or verses for focus and skip the rest they are in fact in violation of them all. And the whole point behind denominations which means division by the way - is that different men decided they wanted the cafeteria plan and do what they wanted while skipping the rest. Why don\'t you call up some BIble scholars and go through it in Greek and Aramaic as well and put it in context to the time it was written. Or are you saying there\'s only one way to be a Christian with one set of \'rules\' and everyone else is damned? If so what is this one all-encompassing Christianity you\'re referring to? Jesus was Jewish.</div>\
	 </div>\
	 </li>\
	 <li id="dsq-comment-3685156">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-header-3685156" class="dsq-comment-header">\
	 <cite id="dsq-cite-3685156" class="dsq-comment-cite">\
	 <span id="dsq-author-user-3685156">whiterosebuddy</span>\
	 </cite>\
	 </div>\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-body-3685156" class="dsq-comment-body">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-message-3685156" class="dsq-comment-message">I think we are saying the same thing. I did not mean you were Catholic...but rather that like you many Catholics are angry at God.</div>\
	 </div>\
	 </li>\
	 <li id="dsq-comment-3683393">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-header-3683393" class="dsq-comment-header">\
	 <cite id="dsq-cite-3683393" class="dsq-comment-cite">\
	 <span id="dsq-author-user-3683393">Justice58</span>\
	 </cite>\
	 </div>\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-body-3683393" class="dsq-comment-body">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-message-3683393" class="dsq-comment-message"><i>I had to leave the church I attended, because of the judgmentalism and lack of mercy.</i><br><br><br><br>Don\'t I know that too well. <br><br>Hypocrites!  They serve God with the lips & outward appearance!</div>\
	 </div>\
	 </li>\
	 <li id="dsq-comment-3684717">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-header-3684717" class="dsq-comment-header">\
	 <cite id="dsq-cite-3684717" class="dsq-comment-cite">\
	 <span id="dsq-author-user-3684717">whiterosebuddy</span>\
	 </cite>\
	 </div>\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-body-3684717" class="dsq-comment-body">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-message-3684717" class="dsq-comment-message">Stop with these false statements. How many times do I have to say I am not some Christian judging you?<br><br>Your personal issues with religion have created a dysfunctional mindset when it comes to have a cogent and well reasoned discussion on the facts.  You just throw up anything like Rush Limbaugh to deflect from the truth.<br>You want to claim it is church that it is other Christians and you are blaming everyone and everything other than looking at how you have completely twisted the entire concept of the Christian faith.<br><br>This happens to individuals who are in such deep conflict about their own actions which are inconsistent with the beliefs of the Christian faith.<br><br>That is not me judging you. It is the tenets of the Christian faith that are not being adhered to which create your emotional angst and cognitive disssonance.<br><br>Not me.<br><br>I just happened to be the messenger this time.<br><br>It is the message you can\'t rebut. It is the message you have to focus on. It is the tenets of the faith you profess to beleive in that you have to focus on.<br><br>not me.<br><br>I just happened to say ...what?  You are not making sense.<br><br>and <br><br>Here\'s why.</div>\
	 </div>\
	 </li>\
	 <li id="dsq-comment-3684629">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-header-3684629" class="dsq-comment-header">\
	 <cite id="dsq-cite-3684629" class="dsq-comment-cite">\
	 <span id="dsq-author-user-3684629">whiterosebuddy</span>\
	 </cite>\
	 </div>\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-body-3684629" class="dsq-comment-body">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-message-3684629" class="dsq-comment-message">I do not \'target\' you CPL.  I rebut your arguments. I expect you to respond with facts that support your views.<br><br>I am not here to show mercy, that is not my job...I am not judge and jury.<br><br>I am only a poster who knows when someone is posting a flawed argument based on false premises due to inherent biases of their personal experiences.<br><br>Now if it is not OK to do that.  I apologize.<br><br>I submit it is not OK to think you can go around posting false statements about the black church, religion or black people without a factual basis for it, EVEN IF you are black.</div>\
	 </div>\
	 </li>\
	 <li id="dsq-comment-3685789">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-header-3685789" class="dsq-comment-header">\
	 <cite id="dsq-cite-3685789" class="dsq-comment-cite">\
	 <a id="dsq-author-user-3685789" href="http://theurbanista2.wordpress.com/" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">Rhondacoca</a>\
	 </cite>\
	 </div>\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-body-3685789" class="dsq-comment-body">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-message-3685789" class="dsq-comment-message">That is how I see it. My godson is gay and he is 12. He has always been that way. The same thing goes for other members of my family who are homosexual or friends who are.</div>\
	 </div>\
	 </li>\
	 <li id="dsq-comment-3680044">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-header-3680044" class="dsq-comment-header">\
	 <cite id="dsq-cite-3680044" class="dsq-comment-cite">\
	 <a id="dsq-author-user-3680044" href="http://www.jackandjillpolitics.com" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">CPL</a>\
	 </cite>\
	 </div>\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-body-3680044" class="dsq-comment-body">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-message-3680044" class="dsq-comment-message">True, that, Belle.  My own experience has forced (cause I do the 12-step programs, too) me to define my OWN relationship with God as I understand who God is.  Since I was brought up in the Baptist Church (where you\'re pretty much taught that God is a "getcha" god), you either spend your whole life trying to adhere to a dogmatic application of Biblical scripture and hoping you don\'t stumble because if you do, the Church shows NO MERCY, even though the Bible admonishes us to gently restore people who stumble and not to gloat because the next person to stumble might be YOU.<br><br>I\'ve had to take a hiatus because I didn\'t bottom out until I crashed under the weight of trying to live under serving a God who seemed to be Dogmatic in His approach.  I\'ve spent my life waiting for the other shoe to drop and finding absolutely NO MERCY from those "walking in the Faith".  I had to learn that my understanding was unique to me and they pretty much denounced me because they were unwilling to accept that we may be united in faith; how we get there may take different paths.<br><br>That understanding has taught me to be tolerant of differences, and unconditionally accepting of others.  It is a lesson that religious leaders like James Dobson, Tim LaHaye, Eddie Long and others who purport to speak for entire Church communities, would do well to learn.</div>\
	 </div>\
	 </li>\
	 <li id="dsq-comment-3680419">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-header-3680419" class="dsq-comment-header">\
	 <cite id="dsq-cite-3680419" class="dsq-comment-cite">\
	 <a id="dsq-author-user-3680419" href="http://theurbanista2.wordpress.com/" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">Rhondacoca</a>\
	 </cite>\
	 </div>\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-body-3680419" class="dsq-comment-body">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-message-3680419" class="dsq-comment-message">I completey agree with you, CPL and that is exactly what I went through before completely breaking with chrstian establishments.</div>\
	 </div>\
	 </li>\
	 <li id="dsq-comment-3680602">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-header-3680602" class="dsq-comment-header">\
	 <cite id="dsq-cite-3680602" class="dsq-comment-cite">\
	 <a id="dsq-author-user-3680602" href="http://www.jackandjillpolitics.com" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">CPL</a>\
	 </cite>\
	 </div>\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-body-3680602" class="dsq-comment-body">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-message-3680602" class="dsq-comment-message">Rhonda, I think more and more who think and feel similarly to us will be doing the same thing, if for nothing else, SURVIVAL.</div>\
	 </div>\
	 </li>\
	 <li id="dsq-comment-3680815">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-header-3680815" class="dsq-comment-header">\
	 <cite id="dsq-cite-3680815" class="dsq-comment-cite">\
	 <span id="dsq-author-user-3680815">whiterosebuddy</span>\
	 </cite>\
	 </div>\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-body-3680815" class="dsq-comment-body">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-message-3680815" class="dsq-comment-message">CPL,<br>It is completely untrue that the church shows no mercy. The church and christian faith have specific tenets that more than show mercy. The tenets of christianity are that you love the sinner and hate the sin. Which means the church welcomes homosexuals into the church, just as they welcome prostitutes, drug addicts, alchoholics, rapists and murderers.  All of those sinners are welcome in the church.  However, the church says in order to adhere to the tenets of the christian faith you must repent your sins, ask for redemption and cease sinning.  None of this is a problem with most folks who choose the christian faith,  addicts, prostitutes, rapists, murderers...all understand that and they set out to redeem themselves in the eyes of Gods based on the christian principles.<br><br>Homosexuals do not.  Homosexuals want to insist that they can continue to live lives of sin and not repent nor seek redemption for their behavior.  Homosexuals want to insist that the church and christians accept their immoral behavior and that they are just like everyone else.  They are not. They are sinners under any faith you choose to name, whether it be jewish, muslim, christian, budhaism...etc.<br><br>The individuals who appear to see some hypocrisy in the churches role cannot themselves be believers in the christian faith but the rules are clear even to those who study the religion and don\'t practice it.<br><br>Repent, cease sinning and God will grant you redemption.<br><br>No other group of sinners demands that God grant them redemption as they continue to practice their sins.<br><br>Their may be those who fall off the wagon and can\'t remain sinless but they continue to strive towards a sinfree life as they seek redemption.<br><br>There IS MERCY from those \'walking in faith\' and that mercy is express as REPENT first, CEASE sinning, and God shall grant you redemption.<br><br>People who adhere to christianity are NOT united in faith with folks who profess to be christians as they flaunt their sins daily and expect those Christians to make an exception for them to committ their sinful acts while claiming to be united in faith.<br><br>Dobson, LaHaye, and Long...are walking in faith...those who live in sin are not.</div>\
	 </div>\
	 </li>\
	 <li id="dsq-comment-3682102">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-header-3682102" class="dsq-comment-header">\
	 <cite id="dsq-cite-3682102" class="dsq-comment-cite">\
	 <a id="dsq-author-user-3682102" href="http://www.jackandjillpolitics.com" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">CPL</a>\
	 </cite>\
	 </div>\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-body-3682102" class="dsq-comment-body">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-message-3682102" class="dsq-comment-message">White Rose Buddy, if nothing else, you are Consistent.<br><br>However, you continue to prove my point.  I was speaking about my experience in my church, and with other churches I\'ve attended, and here you come, flaming me for my own opinion based on my OWN EXPERIENCE.<br><br>First, you say you aren\'t a Christian - yet you\'re spouting Christian principles.<br><br>Second, you say my reasoning as a Christian is flawed - who are YOU to judge me?  I am expressing my opinion BASED ON MY EXPERIENCE.  And yet, just like other Christians, you feel the need to not only disagree with my experience and my opinion, you feel a sense of entitlement to call me out on it.  For you are demonstrating the very reason why the Church is losing members like me and people who have had similar experiences of being abused and controlled in the name of GOD - the number is GROWING.<br><br>I am not in the position of determining whether or not who are sinners.  Perhaps you can enlighten me, since it appears that God has given you the insight and why he chose YOU to present this insight to the rest of us.<br><br>You know what the beauty of discussion like this?  I will still support your right to engage in such discussion, and to have your opinion, even though I think it is dogmatic application in the most literal sense.<br><br>Dobson, LaHaye and Long might be walking in their faith; but their track record shows that anyone in their congregations who don\'t think the same way they do are systematically and summarily DRUMMED OUT.<br><br>I have not asked you to change your opinion; I\'ve respected it.  But I resent your attempt to impose your opinions on ME because I have not asked for them.<br><br>And no, that does not make me less of a CHRISTIAN; although, to your way of thinking, you\'ve probably passed judgement on me in that sense, TOO.<br><br>Fine, I agree to disagree with you on this issue - but I have to respectfully ask that you stop trying to impose your opinions upon me.  I ask because I\'ve tried your way of worshipping and it does not work for me, because it causes people tremendous pain in the name of Jesus, and forces them to live under impossibly dogmatic principles that allow for no mercy if a person reveals their hummaness and falls SHORT.<br><br>I will seek God and my own relationship with God that works for me.  I don\'t care if you don\'t think it\'s Christian - you don\'t get to make the determination as to whether or not I go to Heaven or Hell.  In the End, it\'s God and God alone Who Makes that Decision, and I\'m pretty sure He doesn\'t need Your Help to do so.</div>\
	 </div>\
	 </li>\
	 <li id="dsq-comment-3682215">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-header-3682215" class="dsq-comment-header">\
	 <cite id="dsq-cite-3682215" class="dsq-comment-cite">\
	 <a id="dsq-author-user-3682215" href="http://www.actsoffaithblog.com" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">Acts Of Faith Blog</a>\
	 </cite>\
	 </div>\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-body-3682215" class="dsq-comment-body">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-message-3682215" class="dsq-comment-message">I\'m telling you if Jesus came back today he\'d be clearing the temple of most of those church-hustlers and tell them he doesn\'t know them!</div>\
	 </div>\
	 </li>\
	 <li id="dsq-comment-3685501">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-header-3685501" class="dsq-comment-header">\
	 <cite id="dsq-cite-3685501" class="dsq-comment-cite">\
	 <a id="dsq-author-user-3685501" href="http://theurbanista2.wordpress.com/" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">Rhondacoca</a>\
	 </cite>\
	 </div>\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-body-3685501" class="dsq-comment-body">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-message-3685501" class="dsq-comment-message">Yup.</div>\
	 </div>\
	 </li>\
	 <li id="dsq-comment-3684498">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-header-3684498" class="dsq-comment-header">\
	 <cite id="dsq-cite-3684498" class="dsq-comment-cite">\
	 <span id="dsq-author-user-3684498">whiterosebuddy</span>\
	 </cite>\
	 </div>\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-body-3684498" class="dsq-comment-body">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-message-3684498" class="dsq-comment-message">CPL<br>I am not seeking to change nor judge you. I was simply presenting a cogent argument to rebut the assertions you made about Christianity. I do believe you asserted you were Christian and that CPL stands for Christian Progressive Liberal?  <br><br>When someone says your reasoning is flawed it is not a judgment of you as an individual rather it is a factually based statement about the reasoning you posted.  Experential opinions  typically are full of flaws based on false premises due to the inherent limited data drawn  as generally that experience does not hold true universally.<br><br>  Which was my point to you. Your statements were not universally true with regard to the Christian faith. They were however your personal opinions. Great.<br><br>However, you were using a broad brush to negative paint the black church as well as Christians based on that experience.  Without, my even being a Christian it was easy to see how that was flawed reasoning...all you need to know are the core Christian tenets and your assertions do not hold true. They boil down to solely your experiences.  <br><br> Nor does it mean I am imposing my opinions rather it means you are unable to support your opinions, based on experienced when challenged with fact based statements.<br><br>Now, I am not sure why you think I am feeling some sense of entitlement other than to discuss an issue cogently.  I did not expect you to get all emotional. I rather thought from the postings that you do that you would present a rationally based rebuttal or argument that would support your opinions.  <br><br>I have no sense of entitlement other than what now seems to be  the crazy idea that this was a discussion board where everyone can present their views. I was hoping you had a reasoned rebuttal for your assertions.<br><br>Thanks for supporting my right to express opinions as I support your right not to rebut with a reasoned argument.   I would have thought you would have taken the opportunity to support your opinions when they were challenged.<br><br>I see now I was wrong and that you do not have a reasoned argument to present.<br><br>I am not telling you how to practice your faith. I only pointed out that your assertions are wholly inconsistent with the principles of the Christian faith. Nor am I telling you that you will not go to heaven. I am NOT judging you.  I simply pointed out that your reasoning was flawed.  Or didn\'t make sense when you know the tenets of the Christian faith.<br><br>God doesn\'t need my approval. But under the Christian faith, God made a covenant with people...that his son died for your sins, so you already have Gods blessing but in order to go to heaven you must adhere to the tenets set forth by his son CHRIST which is why they call it Christianity. <br><br>Those are not my beliefs. <br>Those are Christian beliefs.  <br><br>So stop being angry at me or saying I am hurting you cause I set forth in a logical manner the tenets of the Christian faith expecting you to rebut them  as I have no need to impose anything on you.<br><br>I just know that the convoluted reasoning you posted is not adherent to Christian principles.<br><br>I apologize if pointing that out created hurt or anger on your part.</div>\
	 </div>\
	 </li>\
	 <li id="dsq-comment-3684724">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-header-3684724" class="dsq-comment-header">\
	 <cite id="dsq-cite-3684724" class="dsq-comment-cite">\
	 <a id="dsq-author-user-3684724" href="http://www.jackandjillpolitics.com" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">CPL</a>\
	 </cite>\
	 </div>\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-body-3684724" class="dsq-comment-body">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-message-3684724" class="dsq-comment-message">And That\'s YOUR OPINION.<br><br>I HAVE PRESENTED A REBUTTAL TO YOUR POSITIONS. You choose to ignore them.</div>\
	 </div>\
	 </li>\
	 <li id="dsq-comment-3685490">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-header-3685490" class="dsq-comment-header">\
	 <cite id="dsq-cite-3685490" class="dsq-comment-cite">\
	 <span id="dsq-author-user-3685490">whiterosebuddy</span>\
	 </cite>\
	 </div>\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-body-3685490" class="dsq-comment-body">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-message-3685490" class="dsq-comment-message">False. it is not MY opinion,...those are CHRISTIAN tenets.<br><br>Not opinions. Christian beliefs and tenets. Which you should know.<br><br>I have not ignored any rebuttal from you. You have simply stated you are entitled to your opinion without rebutting the CHRISTIAN tenets I asserted.<br><br>These are not MY positions they are the positions of CHRISTIANS who beleive in CHRISTIANITY.<br><br>I am not for the umpteenth time Christian.<br><br>I simply am the messenger here rebutting your false and flawed assertions.</div>\
	 </div>\
	 </li>\
	 <li id="dsq-comment-3682152">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-header-3682152" class="dsq-comment-header">\
	 <cite id="dsq-cite-3682152" class="dsq-comment-cite">\
	 <a id="dsq-author-user-3682152" href="http://www.actsoffaithblog.com" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">Acts Of Faith Blog</a>\
	 </cite>\
	 </div>\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-body-3682152" class="dsq-comment-body">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-message-3682152" class="dsq-comment-message">Perhaps the conversation could veer off to the side slightly and say it\'s also traditionally been the Black Community Standards for Being Black which depending on your family\'s class status as well tends to be very rigid. otherwise you wouldn\'t have poorer Blacks that equate a desire to learn and speak English properly as trying to act \'white\'. There wouldn\'t be this worship of motherhood where some women will have numerous children without being married and choosing men who are not suitable.<br><br>An earlier comparison would be the fight between European countries. Catholic Spain against Protestant England and the use of religious dogma to disguise war. Or how about the demonization of Muslims and Arabs in the hijacking of oil and conflicts in Iraq and Iran.<br><br>Churches should pay taxes! The end. If the Mormons can cough up $20M for Prop 8 they should.</div>\
	 </div>\
	 </li>\
	 <li id="dsq-comment-3685475">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-header-3685475" class="dsq-comment-header">\
	 <cite id="dsq-cite-3685475" class="dsq-comment-cite">\
	 <a id="dsq-author-user-3685475" href="http://theurbanista2.wordpress.com/" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">Rhondacoca</a>\
	 </cite>\
	 </div>\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-body-3685475" class="dsq-comment-body">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-message-3685475" class="dsq-comment-message">I am trying to see what your saying but no, its off base.<br><br>I believe that black sexuality is rigid but it is a result of white supremacy. Study black sexual politics and everything will make sense.</div>\
	 </div>\
	 </li>\
	 <li id="dsq-comment-3685786">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-header-3685786" class="dsq-comment-header">\
	 <cite id="dsq-cite-3685786" class="dsq-comment-cite">\
	 <a id="dsq-author-user-3685786" href="http://www.actsoffaithblog.com" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">Acts Of Faith Blog</a>\
	 </cite>\
	 </div>\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-body-3685786" class="dsq-comment-body">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-message-3685786" class="dsq-comment-message">Not agreeing with me doesn\'t make my assessment off base. I have studied the sexual politics of many cultures as well as the media influence on how Black women have been presented as the saffire/mammy/castrasting loudmouth. White supremacy can tell you one thing, it\'s up to you to believe it and adhere to it. Otherwise Black male comedians would not keep rehashing it for laughs and money at our expense. If a white racist tells you you\'re stupid are you going to believe them and repeat that lie to your offspring and base your entire existence on that? There is victimization going on for sure but there is also acceptance of victimhood. Not all people enslaved waited until they were granted \'freedom\' to take it for themselves.</div>\
	 </div>\
	 </li>\
	 <li id="dsq-comment-3682344">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-header-3682344" class="dsq-comment-header">\
	 <cite id="dsq-cite-3682344" class="dsq-comment-cite">\
	 <a id="dsq-author-user-3682344" href="http://www.jackandjillpolitics.com" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">CPL</a>\
	 </cite>\
	 </div>\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-body-3682344" class="dsq-comment-body">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-message-3682344" class="dsq-comment-message">WhiteRoseBuddy, after defending myself, I find myself in a good deal of pain because your comments triggered all the abuse I went through in the church.<br><br>I hope you\'re happy you\'ve done that.  I hope you\'re satisfied that far from being understanding of my experience, all you have done is exascerbated and made it WORSE.<br><br>HAVE A NICE DAY.  You just demonstrated what I meant by showing absolutely no mercy, no compassion and no willingness to understand, and y\'all wonder why people are running away from the Church in droves.</div>\
	 </div>\
	 </li>\
	 <li id="dsq-comment-3682973">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-header-3682973" class="dsq-comment-header">\
	 <cite id="dsq-cite-3682973" class="dsq-comment-cite">\
	 <span id="dsq-author-user-3682973">rorysmomma</span>\
	 </cite>\
	 </div>\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-body-3682973" class="dsq-comment-body">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-message-3682973" class="dsq-comment-message">CPL the beauty of being a baptist is knowing that God has the final say.  It is not my place to admonish you.  It is also my place not to judge you.  I am not sure whether or not homosexuality is a choice, but I know that with the level of discrimination that gay people face, I would think that you wouldn\'t choose that particular lifestyle.  Don\'t feel that pain cpl.  You continue to pray and ask God for guidance, and we as christians must remember that we are not to lean on our own understanding.</div>\
	 </div>\
	 </li>\
	 <li id="dsq-comment-3683538">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-header-3683538" class="dsq-comment-header">\
	 <cite id="dsq-cite-3683538" class="dsq-comment-cite">\
	 <a id="dsq-author-user-3683538" href="http://www.jackandjillpolitics.com" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">CPL</a>\
	 </cite>\
	 </div>\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-body-3683538" class="dsq-comment-body">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-message-3683538" class="dsq-comment-message">Thanks, Rorysmomma.  That\'s exactly where I am in my faith and I choose to leave the final decision to God.<br><br>Which is something WRB chooses to either disregard in her quest to be "right" as a Christian.</div>\
	 </div>\
	 </li>\
	 <li id="dsq-comment-3684054">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-header-3684054" class="dsq-comment-header">\
	 <cite id="dsq-cite-3684054" class="dsq-comment-cite">\
	 <span id="dsq-author-user-3684054">rorysmomma</span>\
	 </cite>\
	 </div>\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-body-3684054" class="dsq-comment-body">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-message-3684054" class="dsq-comment-message">CPL i get on my soap box quite a bit about what is right and what is wrong, and I saw some of that in her response.  I am going to continue to pray that I am less judgemental.</div>\
	 </div>\
	 </li>\
	 <li id="dsq-comment-3684448">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-header-3684448" class="dsq-comment-header">\
	 <cite id="dsq-cite-3684448" class="dsq-comment-cite">\
	 <a id="dsq-author-user-3684448" href="http://www.jackandjillpolitics.com" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">CPL</a>\
	 </cite>\
	 </div>\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-body-3684448" class="dsq-comment-body">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-message-3684448" class="dsq-comment-message">No, Rorysmomma, your response was thoughtful and most of all, sensitive to where I am.  Thanks.</div>\
	 </div>\
	 </li>\
	 <li id="dsq-comment-3684055">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-header-3684055" class="dsq-comment-header">\
	 <cite id="dsq-cite-3684055" class="dsq-comment-cite">\
	 <span id="dsq-author-user-3684055">whiterosebuddy</span>\
	 </cite>\
	 </div>\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-body-3684055" class="dsq-comment-body">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-message-3684055" class="dsq-comment-message">CPL<br>I find it very disengenuous of you to hide behind some emotional argument while claiming that the church is hypocrital simply because the church adheres to the tenets of christianity.<br><br>I have not once stated I was a Christian. I simply understand Christian principles and there is no quest for being to be right in that regard.<br><br>What I was attempting to do was unravel your flawed reasons interwined with significant falsehoods when you focus on Christianity.<br><br>You choose to claim it is so emotionally upsetting that you can neither discuss the issue on the basis of Christianity nor factually in a rational manner.<br><br>Yet, you beleive you can strike out at me personally?  Please, your issues about the church and christianity have everything to do with you choosing to not adhere to those tenets while claiming to be a believer despite your sexual preferences taking precedence over your practicing and living daily like a Christian.<br><br>That is not about me being right. Rather, it is about you attempting to talk faith without walking in faith.<br><br>I do not need to admonish nor judge you..nor does the Christian faith discriminate against you.<br><br>I simply was pointing out that your actions and words are completely inconsistent...and it is very blatant.<br><br>You cannot unite with people of faith when you choose not to walk in faith. You cannot unite with people of faith by talking about faith as if Christianity has a problem when you are renouncing Christian principles while calling yourself a Christian.<br><br>Jews beleive in God and they are not Christian, so do Muslims believe in God and they are not Christian...so having a relationship with God is not Christianity...<br><br>It is when you abide by Christian tenets and principles and ask for redemption after repenting the sins defined under Christianity faith as sins that you are a Christian<br><br>So stop perpetrating and own up to the truth. It matters not to me how you live your life or what relationship you have with God.<br><br>I simply pointed out the cognitive dissonance you chose to post and how inherently false it was. Doesn\'t make you a bad person, just a person in denial.</div>\
	 </div>\
	 </li>\
	 <li id="dsq-comment-3684429">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-header-3684429" class="dsq-comment-header">\
	 <cite id="dsq-cite-3684429" class="dsq-comment-cite">\
	 <a id="dsq-author-user-3684429" href="http://www.jackandjillpolitics.com" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">CPL</a>\
	 </cite>\
	 </div>\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-body-3684429" class="dsq-comment-body">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-message-3684429" class="dsq-comment-message">Just stop talking to me about this issue WRB, because while you deny being a Christian, you damned sure are sounding like one and a judgemental one at that.<br><br>Your responses continue to cause me a great deal of pain, and I\'ve asked you to stop.  The fact you won\'t respect my opinions and pass judgement on them is EXACTLY WHY I DON\'T ATTEND THE CHURCH I USED TO ATTEND ANYMORE!<br><br>What part of "leave me alone" don\'t you understand?</div>\
	 </div>\
	 </li>\
	 <li id="dsq-comment-3685406">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-header-3685406" class="dsq-comment-header">\
	 <cite id="dsq-cite-3685406" class="dsq-comment-cite">\
	 <span id="dsq-author-user-3685406">whiterosebuddy</span>\
	 </cite>\
	 </div>\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-body-3685406" class="dsq-comment-body">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-message-3685406" class="dsq-comment-message">The part of \'leave me alone\' I do not understand is your belief that you have carte blanche to bash the black Church and the Christian faith..without being call to account for your flawed reasoning.<br><br>You want to throw stones and then run and hide when folks come back ready to challenge you to a fight.<br><br>That is called intellectual dishonest.<br>If you want to make this bold faced glittering false generalities then you need to be able to back them up.<br><br>You showed no mercy when you bashed the black church and christianity, did you?<br><br>I do not care why you do not attend church. I do not attend church either. But I still know out and out falsehoods when I see them posted.<br><br>I am not judging you. I am holding you accountable for your assertions.<br><br>Man up!!</div>\
	 </div>\
	 </li>\
	 <li id="dsq-comment-3685744">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-header-3685744" class="dsq-comment-header">\
	 <cite id="dsq-cite-3685744" class="dsq-comment-cite">\
	 <a id="dsq-author-user-3685744" href="http://www.jackandjillpolitics.com" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">CPL</a>\
	 </cite>\
	 </div>\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-body-3685744" class="dsq-comment-body">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-message-3685744" class="dsq-comment-message">Re-read your post and ask how you would feel if the shoe were on the other foot.</div>\
	 </div>\
	 </li>\
	 <li id="dsq-comment-3684497">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-header-3684497" class="dsq-comment-header">\
	 <cite id="dsq-cite-3684497" class="dsq-comment-cite">\
	 <a id="dsq-author-user-3684497" href="http://www.jackandjillpolitics.com" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">CPL</a>\
	 </cite>\
	 </div>\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-body-3684497" class="dsq-comment-body">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-message-3684497" class="dsq-comment-message"><i>I have not once stated I was a Christian. I simply understand Christian principles and there is no quest for being to be right in that regard.</i><br><br>You just disqualified yourself on all counts WRB.  This will be my last post on this matter.</div>\
	 </div>\
	 </li>\
	 <li id="dsq-comment-3685364">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-header-3685364" class="dsq-comment-header">\
	 <cite id="dsq-cite-3685364" class="dsq-comment-cite">\
	 <span id="dsq-author-user-3685364">whiterosebuddy</span>\
	 </cite>\
	 </div>\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-body-3685364" class="dsq-comment-body">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-message-3685364" class="dsq-comment-message">Look, CPL...there are lots of religion classes.<br><br>Folks need not adhere to a faith to know what the tenets of a particular religion are.<br><br>What you should have recognized a long time ago, is that I studied relgion.</div>\
	 </div>\
	 </li>\
	 <li id="dsq-comment-3686003">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-header-3686003" class="dsq-comment-header">\
	 <cite id="dsq-cite-3686003" class="dsq-comment-cite">\
	 <span id="dsq-author-user-3686003">jdickenslaw</span>\
	 </cite>\
	 </div>\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-body-3686003" class="dsq-comment-body">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-message-3686003" class="dsq-comment-message">CPL,<br><br>  What if WRB was in fact a Christian?  Would that disqualify everything he/she said?  Everything WRB said about the Christian faith is correct, and I agree with WRB\'s description of your reasoning on this issue.  Jesus said, "Why call ye me Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?"  Luke 6:46.  Jesus also said that "no man comes to the father, but by me."  Thus, there is no basis in the Bible for believing that every Christian can have their own interpretation of who God is and what he approves.  Christians believe that Jesus reveals to us the true nature of God the father, and that we are to repent of our sins.  <br><br>   It is true that we are not saved by our works alone, but if the spirit of Christ lives in us, we have the power to resist sin.  What is sin?  Sin is simply "not doing something God\'s way."  (Pastor Otis Lockett, Greensboro, NC)  Thus, you can rationalize any type of sexual behavior as much as you like, but Christians believe that God has commanded sex to be performed between a man and a woman within the covenant of marriage, and all other types of sexual behavior are sins in the eyes of God simply because they are done in ways contrary to the way he has prescribed it to be done.  That makes sexual intercourse between a man and a woman who are not married a sin as well.  <br><br>   Please understand that WRB and I are not condemning you as a person, but we are condeming a belief that being true to Christian principles means that everything is acceptable unto God as long as it involves consenting adults and doesn\'t harm anyone.</div>\
	 </div>\
	 </li>\
	 <li id="dsq-comment-3695487">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-header-3695487" class="dsq-comment-header">\
	 <cite id="dsq-cite-3695487" class="dsq-comment-cite">\
	 <a id="dsq-author-user-3695487" href="http://www.jackandjillpolitics.com" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">CPL</a>\
	 </cite>\
	 </div>\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-body-3695487" class="dsq-comment-body">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-message-3695487" class="dsq-comment-message">You haven\'t, but she has.  And discounts herself bu arguing tenets that she doesn\'t believe in.<br><br>Logic as far as she\'s concerned.  I was sharing my opinion based on my experiences in the Black Church and she basically called me a liar.<br><br>How do I respond when the other individual wants to continue arguing, after I\'ve asked her to stop?<br><br>I\'ve been disrepected.  Period.  And that\'s all I\'ll say on the matter because you can spout all the religious tenets you want but it doesn\'t mean a damned thing if you\'re qualifiying these arguments by saying "I\'m not a Christian."</div>\
	 </div>\
	 </li>\
	 <li id="dsq-comment-3685353">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-header-3685353" class="dsq-comment-header">\
	 <cite id="dsq-cite-3685353" class="dsq-comment-cite">\
	 <a id="dsq-author-user-3685353" href="http://www.jackandjillpolitics.com" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">CPL</a>\
	 </cite>\
	 </div>\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-body-3685353" class="dsq-comment-body">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-message-3685353" class="dsq-comment-message">A person in denial is one who tries to live up to those tenets you preached about.</div>\
	 </div>\
	 </li>\
	 <li id="dsq-comment-3685399">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-header-3685399" class="dsq-comment-header">\
	 <cite id="dsq-cite-3685399" class="dsq-comment-cite">\
	 <a id="dsq-author-user-3685399" href="http://theurbanista2.wordpress.com/" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">Rhondacoca</a>\
	 </cite>\
	 </div>\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-body-3685399" class="dsq-comment-body">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-message-3685399" class="dsq-comment-message">Me 2, that is how I see it.</div>\
	 </div>\
	 </li>\
	 <li id="dsq-comment-3685325">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-header-3685325" class="dsq-comment-header">\
	 <cite id="dsq-cite-3685325" class="dsq-comment-cite">\
	 <a id="dsq-author-user-3685325" href="http://www.jackandjillpolitics.com" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">CPL</a>\
	 </cite>\
	 </div>\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-body-3685325" class="dsq-comment-body">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-message-3685325" class="dsq-comment-message"><i>I have not once stated I was a Christian. I simply understand Christian principles and there is no quest for being to be right in that regard.</i><br><br>If you\'re not a Christian, how do you justify preaching their tenets to me or anyone else on this board?<br><br>Just answer that question, please.  Because you say you aren\'t a Christian.</div>\
	 </div>\
	 </li>\
	 <li id="dsq-comment-3685935">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-header-3685935" class="dsq-comment-header">\
	 <cite id="dsq-cite-3685935" class="dsq-comment-cite">\
	 <span id="dsq-author-user-3685935">whiterosebuddy</span>\
	 </cite>\
	 </div>\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-body-3685935" class="dsq-comment-body">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-message-3685935" class="dsq-comment-message">I am not preaching. I am presenting an argument based on Christian principles as that is what you chose to bash. The black church and christianity are the problem that your put forth as the issue. I am responding to that.<br><br>I don\'t need to be a christian to do that.</div>\
	 </div>\
	 </li>\
	 <li id="dsq-comment-3680628">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-header-3680628" class="dsq-comment-header">\
	 <cite id="dsq-cite-3680628" class="dsq-comment-cite">\
	 <span id="dsq-author-user-3680628">whiterosebuddy</span>\
	 </cite>\
	 </div>\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-body-3680628" class="dsq-comment-body">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-message-3680628" class="dsq-comment-message">Bigs says :  I don\'t understand how it\'s possible to expect ~ justifiably ~ equal rights in terms of race while making discrimination against others based on sexual orientation a tenet of faith.<br><br>Faith is a religious belief with specific tenets independent of equal rights. Equal rights is not a religious tenet. Sexual orientation is a term that is based on the theory that there is some genetic basis for homosexual. That theory has never been proven. What we actually have is sexual preferences which are recognized as a behavior.<br><br>The church just like secular law can and does discriminate against behaviors deemed to be immoral or unproductive for society at large.  Without such laws society is uncivilized.<br><br>There is no contradiction in the moral basis of laws whtehter it is secular or religious when we focus on behaviors which will be acceptable.<br><br>Faith in fact encourages it\'s followers to implement laws and moral standards that live of to the creed of their fate.  None of this is discriminatory.<br><br>Race is not a behavior and as such is in no way analogous to sexual behavioral preferences. Racial equality is not behavioral.i.e. you need not behave in a specific manner in order to belong to a race.  <br><br>Behaviors are subject to discrimination in our society. There is no such thing as you can\'t criminalize disorderly conduct and justifiably have equality under the law on the basis of race. That would be an absurd corollary and society knows that. Neither can you say you can\'t discriminate against drunk drivers and justify racial equality. It is the equivalent of comparing apples and oranges.<br><br>Sex is a behavior and there are numerous laws on the books which \'discriminate\' against acts of bestiality, incest, rape, prostitution, sodomy, etc.  Discriminating against these behaviors has nothing whatsoever to do with racial equality under the law and no one has to even consider justifying it.<br><br>Religion is in it\'s proper place. The problem here is that homosexuality serves no useful purpose in society.  Just as incest, rape, promiscuity, and prostitution do not.<br><br>The only sex that serves a useful role in society is reproductive...which is why the religion even opposes birth control.<br><br>Homosexuals have the job of convincing the larger society of the purpose of the benefit of their relationships to society at large.  They cannot do so.<br><br>Race has nothing to do with that.</div>\
	 </div>\
	 </li>\
	 <li id="dsq-comment-3682740">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-header-3682740" class="dsq-comment-header">\
	 <cite id="dsq-cite-3682740" class="dsq-comment-cite">\
	 <span id="dsq-author-user-3682740">caligirl</span>\
	 </cite>\
	 </div>\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-body-3682740" class="dsq-comment-body">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-message-3682740" class="dsq-comment-message">i voted against prop 8, but i resent your question.  when the hell will the WHITE church adopt this approach?  this issue is not race-specific.</div>\
	 </div>\
	 </li>\
	 <li id="dsq-comment-3684719">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-header-3684719" class="dsq-comment-header">\
	 <cite id="dsq-cite-3684719" class="dsq-comment-cite">\
	 <a id="dsq-author-user-3684719" href="http://www.bigassbelle.blogspot.com" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">bigassbelle</a>\
	 </cite>\
	 </div>\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-body-3684719" class="dsq-comment-body">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-message-3684719" class="dsq-comment-message">This discussion was . . . race specific.</div>\
	 </div>\
	 </li>\
	 <li id="dsq-comment-3685002">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-header-3685002" class="dsq-comment-header">\
	 <cite id="dsq-cite-3685002" class="dsq-comment-cite">\
	 <span id="dsq-author-user-3685002">caligirl</span>\
	 </cite>\
	 </div>\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-body-3685002" class="dsq-comment-body">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-message-3685002" class="dsq-comment-message">while the discussion may have focused on the black church, my point is that the ISSUE can\'t be compartmentalised that easily.  this is a societal issue.  to my mind, there\'s nothing wrong with expanding the reach of the discussion ... taking it further.</div>\
	 </div>\
	 </li>\
	 <li id="dsq-comment-3685314">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-header-3685314" class="dsq-comment-header">\
	 <cite id="dsq-cite-3685314" class="dsq-comment-cite">\
	 <span id="dsq-author-user-3685314">whiterosebuddy</span>\
	 </cite>\
	 </div>\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-body-3685314" class="dsq-comment-body">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-message-3685314" class="dsq-comment-message">But the focus was not societal ...the focus was on the black church.<br>Which is why I too challenged CPL about all those biased hateful statements and sweeping generalities she was making about Christianity!!<br><br>So, just who is doing the comparmentalization and who is asserting racial bias while using the black church as a justification to do so?<br><br>If bigbelle can\'t raise that point on the basis of race and the black church..CPL can\'t either in that context.<br><br>Bashing the black church and the Christian faith is out, regardless of what color you are.</div>\
	 </div>\
	 </li>\
	 <li id="dsq-comment-3678239">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-header-3678239" class="dsq-comment-header">\
	 <cite id="dsq-cite-3678239" class="dsq-comment-cite">\
	 <a id="dsq-author-user-3678239" href="http://blog.evavegadiversity.com/" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">evita</a>\
	 </cite>\
	 </div>\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-body-3678239" class="dsq-comment-body">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-message-3678239" class="dsq-comment-message">I am so with you on this CPL.<br><br>What the white gay activists did was presume that the Black Community does not vote- and forgot about the Barrack Obama. They clearly weren\'t paying attention to mainstream media who was all saying there was going to be HUGE voter turnout. Where I believe there have been some strides, especially with GLSEN (Gay, Lesbian, Straight Education Network,) for most gay advocacy groups they are sorely lacking in inclusive thinking and the willingness to partner with groups that aren\'t 100% on their side of the issue.  I think this proposition got Baracked and instead of riding the wave, they crashed into it. ("Their whiteness was showing," one might say.<br><br>I have said this hundreds of times to friends and anyone who would listen. If the term marriage is largely held to be a religious term then there should be NO USE of that term within the context of the law. We can argue in circles about people\'s faith and gradations of beliefs, but in the end- we were founded on the separation between church and state. I think they should abolish legal marriage and make it all CIVIL UNIONS. If you want a marriage- go take your behind to a Church, just like you were going to do in the first place. So all rights and privileges can go to civil union, and forget the religions connotations or interpretations of a term that is inherently antithetical to our American\'s founders beliefs. When you change the word, all the marriages of old (even the unhappy ones,) will continue to receive their civil rights and new unions will start to get them.<br><br>This is the time to pivot slightly on the issue, not continue the discussion in the same way.</div>\
	 </div>\
	 </li>\
	 <li id="dsq-comment-3679794">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-header-3679794" class="dsq-comment-header">\
	 <cite id="dsq-cite-3679794" class="dsq-comment-cite">\
	 <span id="dsq-author-user-3679794">BlueIA</span>\
	 </cite>\
	 </div>\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-body-3679794" class="dsq-comment-body">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-message-3679794" class="dsq-comment-message">evita, great minds think alike  :-)    because this is the same argument (church, state, marriage/civil unions) I\'ve been having with people since forever!   It makes so much sense, if people *need* that marriage terminology then head over to your nearest church and have at it.</div>\
	 </div>\
	 </li>\
	 <li id="dsq-comment-3681008">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-header-3681008" class="dsq-comment-header">\
	 <cite id="dsq-cite-3681008" class="dsq-comment-cite">\
	 <a id="dsq-author-user-3681008" href="http://blog.evavegadiversity.com/" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">evita</a>\
	 </cite>\
	 </div>\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-body-3681008" class="dsq-comment-body">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-message-3681008" class="dsq-comment-message">except that all states except MA define marriage as between a man and woman- blurring the separation of church and state.</div>\
	 </div>\
	 </li>\
	 <li id="dsq-comment-3679808">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-header-3679808" class="dsq-comment-header">\
	 <cite id="dsq-cite-3679808" class="dsq-comment-cite">\
	 <a id="dsq-author-user-3679808" href="http://theurbanista2.wordpress.com/" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">Rhondacoca</a>\
	 </cite>\
	 </div>\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-body-3679808" class="dsq-comment-body">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-message-3679808" class="dsq-comment-message">Exactly.</div>\
	 </div>\
	 </li>\
	 <li id="dsq-comment-3680440">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-header-3680440" class="dsq-comment-header">\
	 <cite id="dsq-cite-3680440" class="dsq-comment-cite">\
	 <span id="dsq-author-user-3680440">whiterosebuddy</span>\
	 </cite>\
	 </div>\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-body-3680440" class="dsq-comment-body">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-message-3680440" class="dsq-comment-message">Evita...we do presently have civil unions for all people. \'Marriages \'are not recognized by the state without a license to do so.<br>Anyone can be married in a church with or without a license,.  It is only the license that makes it legal under the law.<br><br>Are you confusing the reality of what civil unions are?  <br><br>Marriage is a religious rite.  Ergo, you have the churches in volved for that very reason.<br><br>Anyone can go to the JOP and get a license and never step foot in a church and they are considered married UNDER STATE LAW not under   LAW of the CHURCH.</div>\
	 </div>\
	 </li>\
	 <li id="dsq-comment-3680689">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-header-3680689" class="dsq-comment-header">\
	 <cite id="dsq-cite-3680689" class="dsq-comment-cite">\
	 <span id="dsq-author-user-3680689">jdickenslaw</span>\
	 </cite>\
	 </div>\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-body-3680689" class="dsq-comment-body">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-message-3680689" class="dsq-comment-message">Whiterosebuddy,<br><br>  I raised this very point in yesterday\'s thread that all of the civil rights of marriage could be accomplished under contract law through civil unions.  No one answered my question as to why they wanted the religious right to marry rather than the right to have all of the civil rights of marriage through civil unions.</div>\
	 </div>\
	 </li>\
	 <li id="dsq-comment-3681191">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-header-3681191" class="dsq-comment-header">\
	 <cite id="dsq-cite-3681191" class="dsq-comment-cite">\
	 <span id="dsq-author-user-3681191">whiterosebuddy</span>\
	 </cite>\
	 </div>\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-body-3681191" class="dsq-comment-body">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-message-3681191" class="dsq-comment-message">Most people are too emotionally caught up in what has now become an inflammatory word \'marriage\'.<br><br>Gays want civil unions. Many are not informed as to that being the access to the numerous legal rights they claim to be pursuing.</div>\
	 </div>\
	 </li>\
	 <li id="dsq-comment-3680968">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-header-3680968" class="dsq-comment-header">\
	 <cite id="dsq-cite-3680968" class="dsq-comment-cite">\
	 <a id="dsq-author-user-3680968" href="http://blog.evavegadiversity.com/" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">evita</a>\
	 </cite>\
	 </div>\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-body-3680968" class="dsq-comment-body">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-message-3680968" class="dsq-comment-message">the rights afforded to same sex couples come through the legal term "marriage." <br>marriage is a church "rite" that also happens to bestow legal "rights." instead of saying they are "married," i propose they use a different term civilly joined. there is not one gay person or ally fighting for the right to marry in a church that does not want them. it is the legal rights that are the issue and I say it is as simple as using a different language for all people- not just for gay people.<br><br>if there is a separation of church and state- then we need to separate language too.</div>\
	 </div>\
	 </li>\
	 <li id="dsq-comment-3681109">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-header-3681109" class="dsq-comment-header">\
	 <cite id="dsq-cite-3681109" class="dsq-comment-cite">\
	 <span id="dsq-author-user-3681109">whiterosebuddy</span>\
	 </cite>\
	 </div>\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-body-3681109" class="dsq-comment-body">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-message-3681109" class="dsq-comment-message">Evita,<br>Marriage is a church rite that does NOT bestow any legal right.  It is a religious sanctioning of a couple under the eyes of their faith. There are no legal rights.  You do not need a civil license to marry in any church. You only need to have that minister/rabbi/father marry you in the eyes of the church.<br><br>If you want that religious rite called marriage recognize under the law you must pay for a civil license from the state which is called a marriage license.<br><br>I understand that it is the legal rights gay wants...those do not come through church nor the religious rite of marriage.<br><br>The church and state thus are completely separated.  Only thing is most folks do not understand that.<br><br>You can be married in the eyes of the law, you can be married in the eyes of the church or you can be both.  Most folks who are religious choose both.<br><br>Gays should be seeking civil unions and it is their confusion on what they are advocating for which has created the problems.</div>\
	 </div>\
	 </li>\
	 <li id="dsq-comment-3684354">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-header-3684354" class="dsq-comment-header">\
	 <cite id="dsq-cite-3684354" class="dsq-comment-cite">\
	 <a id="dsq-author-user-3684354" href="http://blog.evavegadiversity.com/" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">evita</a>\
	 </cite>\
	 </div>\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-body-3684354" class="dsq-comment-body">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-message-3684354" class="dsq-comment-message">Totally understand your point but hear this: There are more than 1,167 LEGAL rights denied to adult couples of the same sex  because "marriage" is said to between "one man and one woman" based on the term. It\'s spelled out in the way that some states require the individuals to be a certain age, have blood tests or whatever else, and it is all in the wording. Because of this gay people cannot "marry" and have a marriage because they cannot fulfill the requirements of the law of the State and most states don\'t offer another option which ensure rights (burial, health benefits etc). <br><br>Wiki offers this info:<br><br>Same-sex marriages have been recognized in Massachusetts since November 18, 2003, and in Connecticut since October 10, 2008.[3] Same-sex marriage only has effect at the state level as the U.S. federal government does not recognize same-sex marriages as marriages under federal law, in accordance with the Defense of Marriage Act.<br><br>Vermont, California, New Jersey, and New Hampshire have created legal unions that, while not called marriages, are explicitly defined as offering all the rights and responsibilities of marriage under state (though not federal) law to same-sex couples. Maine, Hawaii, the District of Columbia, Oregon and Washington have created legal unions for same-sex couples that offer varying subsets of the rights and responsibilities of marriage under the laws of those jurisdictions.<br><br>I do not believe in the substandard idea of civil unions- though legally it is a better recourse than none at all. Know that I say this because we all know that separate but equal DOES NOT WORK. When we treat ANY American differently legally under the eyes of the law, then the bigots will find a way to pay people differently, deny rights, and give ill treatment and so on. Jim Crow served the purpose of securing "rights" for whites just as Prop 8 is trying to preserve the rights of heterosexuals. Slippery slope...<br><br>THIS is why I propose the notion of changing the legal notion to ALL "marriages in city hall" or wherever being called civil unions whether you are gay or not and DROP the concept of marriage. Everyone has to use the same terms, fill out the same paperwork etc.  If there is a loophole, bigots and homophobes will find a way to use it. People are not being discriminated against because the venue they were married in, they are discriminated against because they can legally. The states use the TERM marriage. The Chruch uses the term marriage, and by the way the Church files the paperwork on your behalf so its all wrapped into one.<br><br>In most states- two adults of the same sex CANNOT go and get marriage license. You\'re missing this HUGE point.</div>\
	 </div>\
	 </li>\
	 <li id="dsq-comment-3685256">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-header-3685256" class="dsq-comment-header">\
	 <cite id="dsq-cite-3685256" class="dsq-comment-cite">\
	 <span id="dsq-author-user-3685256">whiterosebuddy</span>\
	 </cite>\
	 </div>\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-body-3685256" class="dsq-comment-body">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-message-3685256" class="dsq-comment-message">No,I was not missing that point of who can and cannot get a marriage license.  I was simply advocating for civil unions vs. marriage.</div>\
	 </div>\
	 </li>\
	 <li id="dsq-comment-3686055">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-header-3686055" class="dsq-comment-header">\
	 <cite id="dsq-cite-3686055" class="dsq-comment-cite">\
	 <a id="dsq-author-user-3686055" href="http://blog.evavegadiversity.com/" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">evita</a>\
	 </cite>\
	 </div>\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-body-3686055" class="dsq-comment-body">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-message-3686055" class="dsq-comment-message">Will you speak to the issue of separate but equal?</div>\
	 </div>\
	 </li>\
	 <li id="dsq-comment-3686505">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-header-3686505" class="dsq-comment-header">\
	 <cite id="dsq-cite-3686505" class="dsq-comment-cite">\
	 <span id="dsq-author-user-3686505">whiterosebuddy</span>\
	 </cite>\
	 </div>\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-body-3686505" class="dsq-comment-body">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-message-3686505" class="dsq-comment-message">Separate but equal is a false statement to justify rights based on civil rights.<br><br>All single individuals in this society have the same rights. All married individuals in this society have the same rights.<br><br>There is no separate but equal.</div>\
	 </div>\
	 </li>\
	 <li id="dsq-comment-3693886">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-header-3693886" class="dsq-comment-header">\
	 <cite id="dsq-cite-3693886" class="dsq-comment-cite">\
	 <a id="dsq-author-user-3693886" href="http://blog.evavegadiversity.com/" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">evita</a>\
	 </cite>\
	 </div>\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-body-3693886" class="dsq-comment-body">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-message-3693886" class="dsq-comment-message">the civil right acts covered race, gender, class, religion- not sexual orientation.<br><br>it is perfectly legal to discriminate in employment based on sexual orientation in 30 states in the union! Hit HRC for maps of state rights.<br><a href="http://www.hrc.org/about_us/state_laws.asp" rel="nofollow">http://www.hrc.org/about_us/state_laws.asp</a><br><br>There are only 3 states that recognize civil unions (NJ, NH, and VT.)  And NJ is still trying to get entities within the state to uphold civil union rights. They are ALREADY finding loopholes to the term civil union.  Once again without the use of the word marriage gay men and women are denied 1,167 legal rights in our nation. They are the only group of Americans that can honestly say they do not experience "equal protection under the law." <br><br>Separate but equal is a fair equivalence to this issue and speaks directly to your unproven assertions of the "rights" you say currently exists.<br><br>Once again, for the truth about the issues go to Human Rights Campaign that has a pretty comprehensive set of info, data, and legal findings.</div>\
	 </div>\
	 </li>\
	 <li id="dsq-comment-3698628">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-header-3698628" class="dsq-comment-header">\
	 <cite id="dsq-cite-3698628" class="dsq-comment-cite">\
	 <span id="dsq-author-user-3698628">whiterosebuddy</span>\
	 </cite>\
	 </div>\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-body-3698628" class="dsq-comment-body">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-message-3698628" class="dsq-comment-message">Separate equal is not a fair equivalence as it presumes that homosexuals are some specific subset of society on the scale of what human beings can do and they are not.<br><br>It is their behavior that separates them and that behavior is one which they decide to engage in not one which society says they cannot engage in or that society has criminalized.<br><br>What society says is that men and women can marry the opposite gender.  Everyone one is treated the same. Only homosexuals want to change those standards.   <br><br>Gay men and women can choose to abide by the law and the institution of marriage as set forth under the law. They are not denied that right. So, the law is not discriminatory. No individuals are being denied rights.<br><br>After all the rules even say if you are a man and woman and brother and sister or father and daughter you cannot marry either.<br><br>Those are the standards and rules that govern the institution of marriage in our society. There is no compelling state interest to change those rules such that same gender sex practioners can revel in their own sexual liberties.</div>\
	 </div>\
	 </li>\
	 <li id="dsq-comment-3696005">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-header-3696005" class="dsq-comment-header">\
	 <cite id="dsq-cite-3696005" class="dsq-comment-cite">\
	 <span id="dsq-author-user-3696005">JJai</span>\
	 </cite>\
	 </div>\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-body-3696005" class="dsq-comment-body">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-message-3696005" class="dsq-comment-message">why does it matter, though. For Christians marriage is a partnership with your spouse and God. This is not validated or invalidated by actions of others. (this comment is not meant to proclude that gays cannot be Christians)<br><br>My beliefs as a Christian are separate from law. I just need the law to allow me to worship as I see fit, not have an abortion, or not engage in acts which I believe are sin. God has given us free will. Why should we dictate to others something that God has not dictated to us as Christians? On Judgement Day, we will all be called into account for our actions. So, why judge before then? "Judge lest ye be judged."</div>\
	 </div>\
	 </li>\
	 <li id="dsq-comment-3686229">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-header-3686229" class="dsq-comment-header">\
	 <cite id="dsq-cite-3686229" class="dsq-comment-cite">\
	 <span id="dsq-author-user-3686229">Lilytiger</span>\
	 </cite>\
	 </div>\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-body-3686229" class="dsq-comment-body">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-message-3686229" class="dsq-comment-message">I didn\'t know it was that many rights.</div>\
	 </div>\
	 </li>\
	 <li id="dsq-comment-3678765">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-header-3678765" class="dsq-comment-header">\
	 <cite id="dsq-cite-3678765" class="dsq-comment-cite">\
	 <a id="dsq-author-user-3678765" href="http://www.vastvariety.net" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">Vast Variety</a>\
	 </cite>\
	 </div>\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-body-3678765" class="dsq-comment-body">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-message-3678765" class="dsq-comment-message">I think everyone should go to the new President-Elect\'s web site and share their story about how gays only want the same chance at happiness as everyone else. <br><br><a href="http://change.gov/page/s/yourstory" rel="nofollow">http://change.gov/page/s/yourstory</a><br><br>Same-sex marriages will never be allowed the same rights as everyone else as long as the battles are taking place at the state level. The rights we deserve can only happen at the federal level.<br><br>As long as people think like this... <br><br>"And please spare me the “anti-gay rights” garbage.  Opposing the complete mangling of the definition of marriage is not the same thing as opposing civil rights.  Sorry, but two men can’t get “married” any more than I can call myself the mayor of the Milky Way.  Gay “marriage” is simply a thing that cannot be."<br><br><a href="http://crankycon.politicalbear.com/2008/11/11/au-revoir-charlie/" rel="nofollow">http://crankycon.politicalbear.com/2008/11/11/a...</a><br><br>We will have to continue to fight.</div>\
	 </div>\
	 </li>\
	 <li id="dsq-comment-3679781">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-header-3679781" class="dsq-comment-header">\
	 <cite id="dsq-cite-3679781" class="dsq-comment-cite">\
	 <a id="dsq-author-user-3679781" href="http://www.jackandjillpolitics.com" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">CPL</a>\
	 </cite>\
	 </div>\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-body-3679781" class="dsq-comment-body">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-message-3679781" class="dsq-comment-message">Rhonda, allow me to add this:<br><br><i>Also, if there is a separation between church and state then that means that the church should be left alone. They should not have tp change because they are being demanded by the state and vice versa.</i><br><br>If Churches are going to get themselves involved in politics, they should lose their tax-exempt status and start paying taxes, which then gives them the authority to use their pulpits for political activism.<br><br>You and I both know we will hear mice pissing on cotton when you put that in the faces of the Black Church; especially if Rev. Moneybags\' exorbitant salary has to be taxed.<br><br>And I co-sign everything else you\'ve said, but the separation of Church and State means just that.  If the Churches like the Black Churches, or Southern Baptists, Mormons, Catholics want to use their churches to engage in political activism, give up the tax-exempt status.<br><br>While we may hate corporations for the welfare the government gives them, and they are paying less taxes, nonetheless, they pay taxes.  The Church has been getting a free ride.  One of my Christian girlfriends told me she voted for Bush because the Church needed to start controlling the Government.<br><br>"So when is the Church going to start paying Taxes?" I asked her.<br><br>"And look at how the Government is running, considering Bush put a lot of Religious wingnuts in charge.  How\'s that working for ya?"<br><br>&lt;&lt;&lt;Crickets Chirping&gt;&gt;&gt;<br><br>I, for one, am tired of our people relying on Reverend Good-For-Nothing to do their thinking for them.  If we don\'t want people telling us how to act, then, for God\'s sake, we need to stop acting like Sheeple and engage in independence of thinking, because far too often, when one does the thinking for ALL, he/she can manipulate for personal gain.</div>\
	 </div>\
	 </li>\
	 <li id="dsq-comment-3680351">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-header-3680351" class="dsq-comment-header">\
	 <cite id="dsq-cite-3680351" class="dsq-comment-cite">\
	 <a id="dsq-author-user-3680351" href="http://theurbanista2.wordpress.com/" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">Rhondacoca</a>\
	 </cite>\
	 </div>\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-body-3680351" class="dsq-comment-body">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-message-3680351" class="dsq-comment-message">I completely agree with you. I was raised in the Catholic church and learned about the protestant denominations including black churches later in life.<br><br>The Catholic church is very vocal especially when it comes to aborton issues. I have always had a problem with that because they are not simply discussing whatever moral implications they are offended by. They are protesting outside of abortion clincs and funding anti-abortion groups and movements. <br><br>I completely agree with the whole tax exempt thing and I have been discussing this for a while.<br><br>I currenly reside in Brooklyn, I think Brooklyn takes the cake for the most churches. There is a church on every corner. This speaks to the power of the church in black communities regardless of if someone goes to church or not. The black church in Brooklyn is very involved in community affairs. I often attend Brown Memorial which holds political talks and talks about social issues. This is when everything gets touchy. The black church in these communities work as public space and fellowship. I worked with one of the churches in aiding and helping domestic violence and rap victims. 99% of black women do not report rape. That is scary.<br>I did not mind Jeremiah A. Wright or his church.<br><br>However, there are also the prosperity pimp preachers who are using certain wedge issues for political gain, money and influence.<br><br>I acknowledge that there is a difference.<br><br>I for one am Christian and independent thinking which is why have made a break from my previous church establishments. I cannot say that for everyone especially our black elders who are the most loyal voting block within the black community-the women in particular. <br><br>My great grandmother is 97 and she makes it to the polls for every election and primary. Meanwhile I am far more unreliable like most young people. When I voted in New York, I skipped over propositions and only voted on one elected office outside of the presidency. I am sure that my church going great grandmother voted down the line on every office and proposition. I feel that this is what played out in California. I have spoken to friends who were either confused about the prop. or just skipped over it along with the other elected offices and voted for Obama and left. These people can be influenced and they are open the GLBT community. I believe that the issue of same-sex marriage is more 50/50 in the black community. <br><br>Younger people are more independent in their thinking since we have such access to an abundance of information and diversity.<br><br>I cannot say that about my great-grandmother, aunts etc...who are ready to sign over there assets to the church. <br><br>As I keep saying, the church has become a force and the courts will have to simply step-in and do what they have to do in regards to enforcing the separation between church and state. They can remove some of the churches\' tax exempt depending on the church. <br><br>But as I said, a separation between church and state goes both ways. The church needs to stay away from the state and the state, the church.</div>\
	 </div>\
	 </li>\
	 <li id="dsq-comment-3682010">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-header-3682010" class="dsq-comment-header">\
	 <cite id="dsq-cite-3682010" class="dsq-comment-cite">\
	 <a id="dsq-author-user-3682010" href="http://www.actsoffaithblog.com" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">Acts Of Faith Blog</a>\
	 </cite>\
	 </div>\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-body-3682010" class="dsq-comment-body">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-message-3682010" class="dsq-comment-message">Wow that\'s when people start worshipping the idea of religion and specific church leaders and not God. It\'s men in charge and the women financially supporting the entire operation. That\'s not good esp when they\'ve basically turned their brains off and given up all their decision making processes.</div>\
	 </div>\
	 </li>\
	 <li id="dsq-comment-3685306">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-header-3685306" class="dsq-comment-header">\
	 <cite id="dsq-cite-3685306" class="dsq-comment-cite">\
	 <a id="dsq-author-user-3685306" href="http://theurbanista2.wordpress.com/" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">Rhondacoca</a>\
	 </cite>\
	 </div>\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-body-3685306" class="dsq-comment-body">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-message-3685306" class="dsq-comment-message">Exaclty and that is why I broke from established religion.</div>\
	 </div>\
	 </li>\
	 <li id="dsq-comment-3679880">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-header-3679880" class="dsq-comment-header">\
	 <cite id="dsq-cite-3679880" class="dsq-comment-cite">\
	 <a id="dsq-author-user-3679880" href="http://www.jackandjillpolitics.com" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">CPL</a>\
	 </cite>\
	 </div>\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-body-3679880" class="dsq-comment-body">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-message-3679880" class="dsq-comment-message">Oh, one more thing: I don\'t trust the courts because a lot of judges with religious wingnut values have been appointed to the Federal, State and District Court levels...all the way to the Supreme Court.  Scalia and Thomas were bad enough; now you have Roberts and Alito on the bench, where they have shown a willingness to ignore legal precedent in favor of legislating their personal religious beliefs.<br><br>They only say they\'re capable of separating their beliefs from legal application and they lie about that because if you read some of their judiciary decisions, especially on issues like gay rights, their opinions are laced with proseltyzation, platitudes and personal religious opinion, and are completely DEVOID of the actual, literal interpretation of the LAW.<br><br>Thank YOU, George Bush, for politicizing every damned thing you touched, including the COURT SYSTEM.<br><br>I absolutely hate feeling that I can\'t trust institutions that have worked for years the way the Founding Fathers intended until this fool stole two elections.</div>\
	 </div>\
	 </li>\
	 <li id="dsq-comment-3680544">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-header-3680544" class="dsq-comment-header">\
	 <cite id="dsq-cite-3680544" class="dsq-comment-cite">\
	 <a id="dsq-author-user-3680544" href="http://www.bigassbelle.blogspot.com" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">bigassbelle</a>\
	 </cite>\
	 </div>\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-body-3680544" class="dsq-comment-body">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-message-3680544" class="dsq-comment-message">oh no shit. the bush legacy ~ expecially in the lower courts ~ will affect us for years to come.</div>\
	 </div>\
	 </li>\
	 <li id="dsq-comment-3681095">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-header-3681095" class="dsq-comment-header">\
	 <cite id="dsq-cite-3681095" class="dsq-comment-cite">\
	 <a id="dsq-author-user-3681095" href="http://www.latinopoliticsblog.com" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">adriana01</a>\
	 </cite>\
	 </div>\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-body-3681095" class="dsq-comment-body">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-message-3681095" class="dsq-comment-message">I agree with your perspective in that what is next if the religious-morality policy take away the civil right to marry. For me, what is more troubling is that the Mormon church and its big wig donors funneled a lot of $ into the Yes on 8 campaign in CA. These are the same people who thought that Native Americans, blacks, and any other "dark" people carried the curse of Cain. They essentially run a theocracy in Utah and decided to run their game in Southern CA.</div>\
	 </div>\
	 </li>\
	 <li id="dsq-comment-3683446">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-header-3683446" class="dsq-comment-header">\
	 <cite id="dsq-cite-3683446" class="dsq-comment-cite">\
	 <a id="dsq-author-user-3683446" href="http://www.rapmonster.com" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">rap songs</a>\
	 </cite>\
	 </div>\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-body-3683446" class="dsq-comment-body">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-message-3683446" class="dsq-comment-message">I dont think its cool for gay marriages.  It sends the wrong message to our youth.</div>\
	 </div>\
	 </li>\
	 <li id="dsq-comment-3683737">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-header-3683737" class="dsq-comment-header">\
	 <cite id="dsq-cite-3683737" class="dsq-comment-cite">\
	 <a id="dsq-author-user-3683737" href="http://www.seesaw.typepad.com" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">Liza Diamond</a>\
	 </cite>\
	 </div>\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-body-3683737" class="dsq-comment-body">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-message-3683737" class="dsq-comment-message">Homophobia sends the wrong message to our youth.</div>\
	 </div>\
	 </li>\
	 <li id="dsq-comment-3683857">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-header-3683857" class="dsq-comment-header">\
	 <cite id="dsq-cite-3683857" class="dsq-comment-cite">\
	 <span id="dsq-author-user-3683857">whiterosebuddy</span>\
	 </cite>\
	 </div>\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-body-3683857" class="dsq-comment-body">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-message-3683857" class="dsq-comment-message">What are you saying the homophobia message is?<br><br>To teach youth that same gender sex is deviant is not hateful it is preservation of the species.</div>\
	 </div>\
	 </li>\
	 <li id="dsq-comment-3683948">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-header-3683948" class="dsq-comment-header">\
	 <cite id="dsq-cite-3683948" class="dsq-comment-cite">\
	 <a id="dsq-author-user-3683948" href="http://www.seesaw.typepad.com" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">Liza Diamond</a>\
	 </cite>\
	 </div>\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-body-3683948" class="dsq-comment-body">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-message-3683948" class="dsq-comment-message">Deviant? Sounds hateful and homophobic to me. If you\'re worried about the preservation of the species, go out and do some work on global warming.</div>\
	 </div>\
	 </li>\
	 <li id="dsq-comment-3684576">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-header-3684576" class="dsq-comment-header">\
	 <cite id="dsq-cite-3684576" class="dsq-comment-cite">\
	 <a id="dsq-author-user-3684576" href="http://www.jackandjillpolitics.com" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">CPL</a>\
	 </cite>\
	 </div>\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-body-3684576" class="dsq-comment-body">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-message-3684576" class="dsq-comment-message">Liza, you\'re wasting your breath.  Go read all the posts she\'s put to me, challenging my faith, while in the same breath, declaring she\'s not a Christian, but doing her damndest to sound like one.<br><br>When I told her that her comments created a good deal of pain for me, she merely upped the ante. It is very wearying.</div>\
	 </div>\
	 </li>\
	 <li id="dsq-comment-3684995">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-header-3684995" class="dsq-comment-header">\
	 <cite id="dsq-cite-3684995" class="dsq-comment-cite">\
	 <a id="dsq-author-user-3684995" href="http://www.seesaw.typepad.com" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">Liza Diamond</a>\
	 </cite>\
	 </div>\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-body-3684995" class="dsq-comment-body">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-message-3684995" class="dsq-comment-message">thanks for the heads up, CPL</div>\
	 </div>\
	 </li>\
	 <li id="dsq-comment-3698559">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-header-3698559" class="dsq-comment-header">\
	 <cite id="dsq-cite-3698559" class="dsq-comment-cite">\
	 <span id="dsq-author-user-3698559">whiterosebuddy</span>\
	 </cite>\
	 </div>\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-body-3698559" class="dsq-comment-body">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-message-3698559" class="dsq-comment-message">Sorry Liza, but the word deviant is neither hateful nor homophobic.<br>It is a very precise description of  homosexual  behavior,<br>When a behavior or action is abnormal it is deviant.<br>Deviant from the norm.. <br><br>I could have used the term abnormal but it was not as precise<br><br>.Being precise is not hateful nor homophobic.<br><br>I am worried about children being raised in families where they have the opportunity to maximize their human potential.</div>\
	 </div>\
	 </li>\
	 <li id="dsq-comment-3686150">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-header-3686150" class="dsq-comment-header">\
	 <cite id="dsq-cite-3686150" class="dsq-comment-cite">\
	 <span id="dsq-author-user-3686150">Lilytiger</span>\
	 </cite>\
	 </div>\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-body-3686150" class="dsq-comment-body">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-message-3686150" class="dsq-comment-message">I think the survival of our species is under far more threat from other members of it than gay couples wanting to marry. <br><br><br>Not to imply that gays are not also involved in grinding mother earth into smithereens. Just that the actions of marrying isn\'t a part of it.<br><br>Heh</div>\
	 </div>\
	 </li>\
	 <li id="dsq-comment-3698526">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-header-3698526" class="dsq-comment-header">\
	 <cite id="dsq-cite-3698526" class="dsq-comment-cite">\
	 <span id="dsq-author-user-3698526">whiterosebuddy</span>\
	 </cite>\
	 </div>\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-body-3698526" class="dsq-comment-body">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-message-3698526" class="dsq-comment-message">Gays are not a threat to the preservation of the species. They are a deterrent to the preservation of the species.</div>\
	 </div>\
	 </li>\
	 <li id="dsq-comment-3700414">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-header-3700414" class="dsq-comment-header">\
	 <cite id="dsq-cite-3700414" class="dsq-comment-cite">\
	 <span id="dsq-author-user-3700414">Lilytiger</span>\
	 </cite>\
	 </div>\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-body-3700414" class="dsq-comment-body">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-message-3700414" class="dsq-comment-message">Like nonreplicating carbon life forms.<br><br>Gee, I have read all your posts in this thread and I think a bit of thinning of the herd isn\'t a bad thing. You intent is showing. It isn\'t that you have a different viewpoint, it is kind of the slimy way you post it. "Deviant isn\'t hateful..." <br><br>Yes it is when used with your tone.</div>\
	 </div>\
	 </li>\
	 <li id="dsq-comment-3683549">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-header-3683549" class="dsq-comment-header">\
	 <cite id="dsq-cite-3683549" class="dsq-comment-cite">\
	 <span id="dsq-author-user-3683549">caligirl</span>\
	 </cite>\
	 </div>\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-body-3683549" class="dsq-comment-body">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-message-3683549" class="dsq-comment-message">just gotta say:  i am so THANKFUL my parents didn\'t raise us in the church!  organised religion is a hot mess.</div>\
	 </div>\
	 </li>\
	 <li id="dsq-comment-3683613">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-header-3683613" class="dsq-comment-header">\
	 <cite id="dsq-cite-3683613" class="dsq-comment-cite">\
	 <span id="dsq-author-user-3683613">Field Negroe</span>\
	 </cite>\
	 </div>\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-body-3683613" class="dsq-comment-body">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-message-3683613" class="dsq-comment-message">I am an educated heterosexual black man who disagrees with gay marriage.  I don\'t hate gays people.  But ultimately the gay lifestyle is harmful to the larger society.  I am agnostic, so the bible has nothing to do with my disapproval.  Rather it\'s the natural order of things.  Things that remain within the natural order of things promote life.  Things outside of that kill.  Its that simple.  The HIV/AIDS rate amongst gays is higher for a reason.  Consider that people who admit to having male to male sexual intercourse are banned for life from giving blood.  If my great grandfather had married a man as opposed to marrying my great grandmother, there would be about 600 fewer human beings in existence today.  I am tolerant of people who chose to live the gay lifestyle.  But the fact is that it is a perversion and it is dangerous to the human race, and therefore should not be sanctioned by the government.</div>\
	 </div>\
	 </li>\
	 <li id="dsq-comment-3683730">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-header-3683730" class="dsq-comment-header">\
	 <cite id="dsq-cite-3683730" class="dsq-comment-cite">\
	 <a id="dsq-author-user-3683730" href="http://www.seesaw.typepad.com" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">Liza Diamond</a>\
	 </cite>\
	 </div>\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-body-3683730" class="dsq-comment-body">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-message-3683730" class="dsq-comment-message">You say you don\'t hate gay people, but your words are insulting and hateful. I have no interest in your tolerance. I just want my rights as a citizen thank you very much.</div>\
	 </div>\
	 </li>\
	 <li id="dsq-comment-3684621">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-header-3684621" class="dsq-comment-header">\
	 <cite id="dsq-cite-3684621" class="dsq-comment-cite">\
	 <a id="dsq-author-user-3684621" href="http://www.jackandjillpolitics.com" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">CPL</a>\
	 </cite>\
	 </div>\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-body-3684621" class="dsq-comment-body">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-message-3684621" class="dsq-comment-message">I think the real Field Negro posted the following:<br><br><a href="http://field-negro.blogspot.com/2008/11/proposition-hate.html" rel="nofollow">http://field-negro.blogspot.com/2008/11/proposi...</a><br><br>This post sounds like an imposter...and a TROLL.</div>\
	 </div>\
	 </li>\
	 <li id="dsq-comment-3686082">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-header-3686082" class="dsq-comment-header">\
	 <cite id="dsq-cite-3686082" class="dsq-comment-cite">\
	 <span id="dsq-author-user-3686082">Lilytiger</span>\
	 </cite>\
	 </div>\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-body-3686082" class="dsq-comment-body">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-message-3686082" class="dsq-comment-message">Well, he misspelt his name for starters...</div>\
	 </div>\
	 </li>\
	 <li id="dsq-comment-3684635">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-header-3684635" class="dsq-comment-header">\
	 <cite id="dsq-cite-3684635" class="dsq-comment-cite">\
	 <a id="dsq-author-user-3684635" href="http://blog.evavegadiversity.com/" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">evita</a>\
	 </cite>\
	 </div>\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-body-3684635" class="dsq-comment-body">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-message-3684635" class="dsq-comment-message">What you have expressed and used as truth is an expression heterosexism and homophobia regardless of your motives.<br><br>The policies around gay men and giving blood is not true. There is data to support to fact the fact that incidences of spreading of HIV is DOWN among gay men and UP in the African American community, especially among heterosexual Black women being. How would you feel if Black people were being blamed for the downfall of the human race? Based on your limited knowledge on the topic I suggest you stop trying to pose as an "educated man" since clearly that education hasn\'t helped you better understand the contemporary facts about HIV and AIDS.<br><br>I several friends who have adopted young people from the system and love their kids more than words can say. They have raised their kids, paid their taxes, lived within the letter of the law with each other for 22 years. The couple I spoke of is white and latino and together they raised 2 black boys that are not GREAT young men. How dare any person, including you, undermine this truth by your false accusations.<br><br>If gay men were allowed to marry back in your grand father\'s day, there might be more Black men alive today. Alive because they had the opportunity to have more positive role models. There might have been fewer people living in poverty with raising children they can\'t financially support, or being ushered into the system via orphanages etc.</div>\
	 </div>\
	 </li>\
	 <li id="dsq-comment-3684700">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-header-3684700" class="dsq-comment-header">\
	 <cite id="dsq-cite-3684700" class="dsq-comment-cite">\
	 <a id="dsq-author-user-3684700" href="http://www.bigassbelle.blogspot.com" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">bigassbelle</a>\
	 </cite>\
	 </div>\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-body-3684700" class="dsq-comment-body">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-message-3684700" class="dsq-comment-message">No crumbs for the troll . . .</div>\
	 </div>\
	 </li>\
	 <li id="dsq-comment-3683671">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-header-3683671" class="dsq-comment-header">\
	 <cite id="dsq-cite-3683671" class="dsq-comment-cite">\
	 <a id="dsq-author-user-3683671" href="http://www.seesaw.typepad.com" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">Liza Diamond</a>\
	 </cite>\
	 </div>\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-body-3683671" class="dsq-comment-body">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-message-3683671" class="dsq-comment-message">Much of the desire to marry has to do with economics. Taxes and insurance are decided based on marriage. Or civil union. If we had a decent health care system and a fair tax structure, most people wouldn\'t care  about marriage. I want the government to tax me based on being a citizen, no breaks for being married, and to give me access to affordable health care because I am a resident. Period. <br><br>I civil unioned with my parter - same sex - so we could a better deal on insurance for our family, including two kids, and ditto for income taxes. It wasn\'t about ceremony, or committment or even, as KO suggested last night, Love. We loved each other as much before our ten minute civil union ceremony, and were as committed before any legal sanctions were in place. We didn\'t give a hoot that the kids were born out of wedlock, and it hasn\'t made a bit of difference in anyone\'s life.<br><br>We live in an unjust society. Marriage won\'t help solve the root problems. <br><br>But discrimination hurts all of us.</div>\
	 </div>\
	 </li>\
	 <li id="dsq-comment-3683799">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-header-3683799" class="dsq-comment-header">\
	 <cite id="dsq-cite-3683799" class="dsq-comment-cite">\
	 <a id="dsq-author-user-3683799" href="http://www.seesaw.typepad.com" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">Liza Diamond</a>\
	 </cite>\
	 </div>\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-body-3683799" class="dsq-comment-body">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-message-3683799" class="dsq-comment-message">We also were lucky that we were legally allowed to cross adopt our children in NY so that both moms (the birth mom and the coparent) are the legal parents. That\'s another right that is imperative, but it came to us in NY in the nineties without the need for civil union or marriage - neither of which was available to us at the time.</div>\
	 </div>\
	 </li>\
	 <li id="dsq-comment-3686060">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-header-3686060" class="dsq-comment-header">\
	 <cite id="dsq-cite-3686060" class="dsq-comment-cite">\
	 <span id="dsq-author-user-3686060">Lilytiger</span>\
	 </cite>\
	 </div>\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-body-3686060" class="dsq-comment-body">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-message-3686060" class="dsq-comment-message">Good points.</div>\
	 </div>\
	 </li>\
	 <li id="dsq-comment-3684931">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-header-3684931" class="dsq-comment-header">\
	 <cite id="dsq-cite-3684931" class="dsq-comment-cite">\
	 <a id="dsq-author-user-3684931" href="http://talesfromthe.net/jon" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">jon</a>\
	 </cite>\
	 </div>\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-body-3684931" class="dsq-comment-body">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-message-3684931" class="dsq-comment-message">Well said.   From the outside, it\'s really hard to understand why "No on 8" didn\'t engage more with the communities they needed to convince.  It was really disappointing that so many people\'s knee-jerk response (clearly unsupportable by math) was to blame blacks and Latinos.  Hopefully the post-election grassroots activism will be a lot more inclusive.<br><br>Speaking of post-eleciton grassroots activism, <a href="http://jointheimpact.wetpaint.com/" rel="nofollow">Join the Impact</a> is the place for information about the National Day of Action on November 15.  <a href="http://www.pamshouseblend.com/showDiary.do?diaryId=8152#93571" rel="nofollow">Pam Spaudling\'s got info on the Bend about the Raleigh protest</a> ... there are a lot more out there as well.</div>\
	 </div>\
	 </li>\
	 <li id="dsq-comment-3685305">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-header-3685305" class="dsq-comment-header">\
	 <cite id="dsq-cite-3685305" class="dsq-comment-cite">\
	 <span id="dsq-author-user-3685305">allheavens</span>\
	 </cite>\
	 </div>\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-body-3685305" class="dsq-comment-body">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-message-3685305" class="dsq-comment-message">whiterosebuddy stated: <br>Those are not my beliefs. <br>Those are Christian beliefs. <br><br>So, whiterosebuddy what is the payoff? What do you gain by pointing out everyone’s flawed logic? By that I mean, any belief other than those supported by Christian tenets, i.e., those prescribed in the Bible?</div>\
	 </div>\
	 </li>\
	 <li id="dsq-comment-3685836">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-header-3685836" class="dsq-comment-header">\
	 <cite id="dsq-cite-3685836" class="dsq-comment-cite">\
	 <span id="dsq-author-user-3685836">whiterosebuddy</span>\
	 </cite>\
	 </div>\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-body-3685836" class="dsq-comment-body">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-message-3685836" class="dsq-comment-message">My specific quest in this instance was to cease the bashing of the black church due to some crazy homosexual agenda. The civil rights movement nor the black church merits being diminished because folks want some rights based on what they do with their genitals.<br><br>The black church is an insitutition and it is the political foundation of our community. And the vast majority of blacks in this country are Christian so it is unacceptable to stereotype either negatively based on some individual experience.<br><br>It is particularly unaccepted to equate sex with race in any context as being a defensible argument on the basis of equality or rights under the law. Behaviors are not immune to discriminate under the law in this society. <br><br>I typically will discuss anything from a reasoned logically perspective because it is an opportunity to learn. I basically like engaging others and their ideas. I try not to get personal as that is very counterproductive and I  am really really really disdainful of emotional arguments that lack logic because folks take it personal.<br><br>This was not a biblical issue, but the assertions made by CPL warranted a biblically based and christian philosophy to rebut them as that was the center core of the flawed premise.</div>\
	 </div>\
	 </li>\
	 <li id="dsq-comment-3686023">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-header-3686023" class="dsq-comment-header">\
	 <cite id="dsq-cite-3686023" class="dsq-comment-cite">\
	 <span id="dsq-author-user-3686023">Michelle</span>\
	 </cite>\
	 </div>\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-body-3686023" class="dsq-comment-body">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-message-3686023" class="dsq-comment-message"><i>My specific quest in this instance was to cease the bashing of the black church due to some crazy homosexual agenda. </i><br><br>I\'m not following the arguments on all this but this part of this comment strikes me as a particularly complex example of the escalating drama about victimhood that I mentioned in my long comment above.<br><br>The escalation would then call on the "crazy homosexuals" with an "agenda" (and or supporters of same) to say, NO! WE\'RE THE VICTIMS!  etc etc And then someone like whiterosebuddy would argue NO YOU\'RE NOT!  etc etc<br><br>and it goes on and on and on.<br><br>(still thinking about all this)</div>\
	 </div>\
	 </li>\
	 <li id="dsq-comment-3686419">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-header-3686419" class="dsq-comment-header">\
	 <cite id="dsq-cite-3686419" class="dsq-comment-cite">\
	 <span id="dsq-author-user-3686419">whiterosebuddy</span>\
	 </cite>\
	 </div>\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-body-3686419" class="dsq-comment-body">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-message-3686419" class="dsq-comment-message">Right, I would argue they are not the victims. They simply have an agenda which is not supported.</div>\
	 </div>\
	 </li>\
	 <li id="dsq-comment-3687163">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-header-3687163" class="dsq-comment-header">\
	 <cite id="dsq-cite-3687163" class="dsq-comment-cite">\
	 <span id="dsq-author-user-3687163">Michelle</span>\
	 </cite>\
	 </div>\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-body-3687163" class="dsq-comment-body">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-message-3687163" class="dsq-comment-message">I strongly suggest, whiterosebuddy, that you take a step back and do some ruthless self-reflection. Look carefully and without defensiveness at the <b>actual function</b> of your actions here at JJP when you write on this particular issue <br><br>In my observation, you are not functioning to the good of the larger whole in how you are engaging on this issue. <br><br>What I am saying here to you, whiterosebuddy, is not about right or wrong arguments, because in actual practice, that just leads into more drama and wasted energy. <br><br>What I am saying here to you is a call for you to be truly thoughtful and disciplined and self-conscious about how you are actually functioning as part of a larger thing than just YOUR self and YOUR ego and YOUR ideology. <br><br>It\'s about asking you to be ruthlessly honest with yourself about what your engagement on these issues is actually functioning to DO as part of the group.Calling on you to engage in careful scrutiny of whether or not you are making the best contributions to the larger whole at JJP in how you are engaging on this issue. Asking you to please consider how you might best use your energy to make the most positive contributions in the larger context of this site that you possibly can, and then act on that knowledge.<br><br>I am only going to make this call to you once, wrb. You can hear it or not. My responsibility, as I have assessed it, is to do this once.</div>\
	 </div>\
	 </li>\
	 <li id="dsq-comment-3694645">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-header-3694645" class="dsq-comment-header">\
	 <cite id="dsq-cite-3694645" class="dsq-comment-cite">\
	 <span id="dsq-author-user-3694645">jdickenslaw</span>\
	 </cite>\
	 </div>\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-body-3694645" class="dsq-comment-body">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-message-3694645" class="dsq-comment-message">Michelle,<br><br>  I totally disagree with you.  WRB\'s logic is correct, and WRB correctly states the tenets of Christianity.  It is amazing that when the discussion deals with facts and logic and the analysis that follows therefrom, you state it is not productive.</div>\
	 </div>\
	 </li>\
	 <li id="dsq-comment-3695058">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-header-3695058" class="dsq-comment-header">\
	 <cite id="dsq-cite-3695058" class="dsq-comment-cite">\
	 <span id="dsq-author-user-3695058">Michelle</span>\
	 </cite>\
	 </div>\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-body-3695058" class="dsq-comment-body">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-message-3695058" class="dsq-comment-message">I am speaking of the <b>actual function</b> of this individual\'s contribution in the larger whole here at JJP.<br><br>However, I suspect that this way of looking at things is probably outside what you are accustomed to. Understandable, given how these things usually go.<br><br>I have never before been able to name in words the harm of fundamentalism/ideologues (of all types, on all sides of the spectrum) until observing the dynamics of this election season. And I am still learning, as I said above.<br><br>I do know that a collective/contribution approach to discussion is somewhat (or more than somewhat) alien in the larger culture. And it is certainly somewhat opposed to some elements of online discussions -- which in many contexts are about individual self-expression and/or argument for the sake of argument, rather than real mutual learning and real collective-focused dialogue.<br><br>So it makes sense to me that we disagree, jdickenslaw.</div>\
	 </div>\
	 </li>\
	 <li id="dsq-comment-3695366">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-header-3695366" class="dsq-comment-header">\
	 <cite id="dsq-cite-3695366" class="dsq-comment-cite">\
	 <span id="dsq-author-user-3695366">jdickenslaw</span>\
	 </cite>\
	 </div>\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-body-3695366" class="dsq-comment-body">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-message-3695366" class="dsq-comment-message">Michelle,<br><br>    WRB stated quite clearly what the actual function of his response to CPL.  WRB stated that one purpose was to "cease the bashing of the black church due to some crazy homosexual agenda."  Another function was to correctly point out that "It is particularly unaccepted to equate sex with race in any context as being a defensible argument on the basis of equality or rights under the law. Behaviors are not immune to discriminate under the law in this society."  <br><br>  The actual function of WRB\'s posts is to infuse facts and rational, logical analysis to the discussion.  WRB correctly articulated the tenets of the Christian faith, WRB\'s actual function shows how the tenets Christianity can be defended both rationally and intellectually.  <br><br>   You seem to equate dealing in facts with fundamentalism and idealogy.  I find it interesting that no one can rebut WRB\'s arguments directly on its face, nor can anyone articulate why gays insist on the right to marry rather than the right to have all of the civil rights that accompany marriage through civil unions.  WRB states correctly that marriage is a spiritual matter; a covenant between a man and woman honored by God.  You don\'t need a marriage license to married in the Church, but you need a marriage license to be afforded the rights of marriage in civil society.  These rights can be given through civil unions and contracts.  Instead of responding to these specific questions, we get the responses like yours, CPL\'s and all heavens.  Now, you just want WRB to be quiet.  That\'s the pinnacle of intellectual thought.</div>\
	 </div>\
	 </li>\
	 <li id="dsq-comment-3695542">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-header-3695542" class="dsq-comment-header">\
	 <cite id="dsq-cite-3695542" class="dsq-comment-cite">\
	 <a id="dsq-author-user-3695542" href="http://www.jackandjillpolitics.com" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">CPL</a>\
	 </cite>\
	 </div>\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-body-3695542" class="dsq-comment-body">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-message-3695542" class="dsq-comment-message">I\'m sorry but if my unwillingness to beat up gay people disqualifies me from being a Christian, and according to you and WRB, it does, I guess God will be dealing with me soon.<br><br>I am not going to use a Bible to beat people into accepting something that they can\'t accept.<br><br>I guess I\'m a heathen because I choose to unconditionally accept people regardless of who they are and be content to allow God to sort it out.<br><br>Good day to BOTH OF YOU.</div>\
	 </div>\
	 </li>\
	 <li id="dsq-comment-3698392">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-header-3698392" class="dsq-comment-header">\
	 <cite id="dsq-cite-3698392" class="dsq-comment-cite">\
	 <span id="dsq-author-user-3698392">whiterosebuddy</span>\
	 </cite>\
	 </div>\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-body-3698392" class="dsq-comment-body">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-message-3698392" class="dsq-comment-message">There you go again CPL misconstruing and taking statements out of context to twist them into the bizarre flawed premises you hold.<br><br>No one is beating up on gays. That type of emotionally and inflammatory language on your part is absurd. Either you have facts to rebut the argument or you don\'t. Your whinning  though is annoying and frankly juvenile.<br><br>I did not use a Bible to beat up on anyone. YOU sought to defame christianity because you have personal biases and issues about religion while claiming to be Christian.<br><br>You do not get to impose that personal distortion on others by spouting false statements about the church or Christianity.<br><br>And you attempt to have some moral authority by talking about accepting people unconditionally yet you are offended when I tell you that the black church does as well because that is a core principle of Christianity to welcome all sinners to worship in the church.<br><br>Somehow you twisted that to beating up on gays...<br><br>yes, God will be dealing with you soon.</div>\
	 </div>\
	 </li>\
	 <li id="dsq-comment-3694754">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-header-3694754" class="dsq-comment-header">\
	 <cite id="dsq-cite-3694754" class="dsq-comment-cite">\
	 <span id="dsq-author-user-3694754">jdickenslaw</span>\
	 </cite>\
	 </div>\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-body-3694754" class="dsq-comment-body">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-message-3694754" class="dsq-comment-message">Excellent response.  Have you noticed that no one can rebut anything you have said with a rational and logical response?  You have articulated the tenets of Christianity very well.  Since they cannot respond to your arguments, they want you to shut up.  I trust that you will ignore these comments, and realize that they have nothing left to throw at you.</div>\
	 </div>\
	 </li>\
	 <li id="dsq-comment-3698316">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-header-3698316" class="dsq-comment-header">\
	 <cite id="dsq-cite-3698316" class="dsq-comment-cite">\
	 <span id="dsq-author-user-3698316">whiterosebuddy</span>\
	 </cite>\
	 </div>\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-body-3698316" class="dsq-comment-body">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-message-3698316" class="dsq-comment-message">Yes, jdickenslaw. I did note that. I was uncertain whether folks were unable to rebut with a reasoned argument or if they chose not to engage...out of pain (sigh)<br><br>Thanks for the positive feedback.</div>\
	 </div>\
	 </li>\
	 <li id="dsq-comment-3688889">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-header-3688889" class="dsq-comment-header">\
	 <cite id="dsq-cite-3688889" class="dsq-comment-cite">\
	 <a id="dsq-author-user-3688889" href="http://craighickman.blogspot.com" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">CraigHickman</a>\
	 </cite>\
	 </div>\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-body-3688889" class="dsq-comment-body">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-message-3688889" class="dsq-comment-message"><b>Commitments</b><br>by Essex Hemphill<br><br>I will always be there.<br>When the silence is exhumed.<br>When the photographs are examined<br>I will be pictured smiling<br>among siblings, parents,<br>nieces and nephews.<br><br>In the background of the photographs<br>the hazy smoke of barbecue,<br>a checkered red and white tablecloth<br>laden with blackened chicken,<br>glistening ribs, paper plates,<br>bottles of beer and pop.<br><br>In the photos<br>the smallest children<br>are held by their parents.<br>My arms are empty, or around<br>the shoulders of unsuspecting aunts<br>expecting to throw rice at me someday.<br><br>Or picture tinsel, candles,<br>ornamented, imitation trees,<br>or another table, this one<br>set for Thanksgiving,<br>a turkey steaming the lens.<br><br>My arms are empty<br>in those photos, too,<br>so empty they would break<br>around a lover.<br><br>I am always there<br>for critical emergencies,<br>graduations,<br>the middle of the night.<br><br>I am the invisible son,<br>In the family photos<br>nothing appears out of character.<br>I smile as I serve my duty.</div>\
	 </div>\
	 </li>\
	 <li id="dsq-comment-3695401">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-header-3695401" class="dsq-comment-header">\
	 <cite id="dsq-cite-3695401" class="dsq-comment-cite">\
	 <span id="dsq-author-user-3695401">caligirl</span>\
	 </cite>\
	 </div>\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-body-3695401" class="dsq-comment-body">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-message-3695401" class="dsq-comment-message">so beautiful.  <br>loved essex with a passion.</div>\
	 </div>\
	 </li>\
	 <li id="dsq-comment-3690704">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-header-3690704" class="dsq-comment-header">\
	 <cite id="dsq-cite-3690704" class="dsq-comment-cite">\
	 <span id="dsq-author-user-3690704">allheavens</span>\
	 </cite>\
	 </div>\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-body-3690704" class="dsq-comment-body">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-message-3690704" class="dsq-comment-message">whiterosebuddy stated:<br><br>My specific quest in this instance was to cease the bashing of the black church due to some crazy homosexual agenda. The civil rights movement nor the black church merits being diminished because folks want some rights based on what they do with their genitals.<br><br>There it is.<br><br>You have just diminished any argument you have represented with your opening statement. <br><br>I do equate the GLBT community’s quest for marriage with the 400 year struggle of African Americans in this country. But that is my belief and I will not impose it on others. I simply do not wish to engage in any type of oppression Olympics because of the outcome of Prop 8. <br><br>However, by stating that we should not take to task the Black religious community "because of some crazy homosexual agenda" is utterly ridiculous. I was raised Southern Baptist by grandparents who went to church not just on Sunday but every day of their lives. I was raised to believe that the oppression of any people was unacceptable EVEN by the Church.<br><br>Whether you think sex is purely for procreation, whether you think marriage is between a man and a woman, whether you think homosexuality is a sin you do not have the presumed moral authority to legislate the stripping away of rights of others based on religious law.<br><br>Religiosity disguised as legislative mandates is a slippery slope that could come back to haunt the church and christians. The Bible has been used to perpetrate some of the most horrific acts in human history and some in the community have blithely ignored this.<br><br>You may not like what they do with their genitals but we must remain ever vigilant when the rights of others are denied. How can we not?</div>\
	 </div>\
	 </li>\
	 <li id="dsq-comment-3694569">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-header-3694569" class="dsq-comment-header">\
	 <cite id="dsq-cite-3694569" class="dsq-comment-cite">\
	 <a id="dsq-author-user-3694569" href="http://craighickman.blogspot.com" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">CraigHickman</a>\
	 </cite>\
	 </div>\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-body-3694569" class="dsq-comment-body">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-message-3694569" class="dsq-comment-message">Please stop making sense.</div>\
	 </div>\
	 </li>\
	 <li id="dsq-comment-3698260">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-header-3698260" class="dsq-comment-header">\
	 <cite id="dsq-cite-3698260" class="dsq-comment-cite">\
	 <span id="dsq-author-user-3698260">whiterosebuddy</span>\
	 </cite>\
	 </div>\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-body-3698260" class="dsq-comment-body">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-message-3698260" class="dsq-comment-message">I respectfully disagree AllHeavens. My argument was a rebuttal to one put forth about the black church and which sought to scapegoat the black church and Christianity for the passing of Prop8.  Nothing in my argument addressed any oppression of any people.<br><br>I made no contention of any sort nor any presumption of moral authority, nor did the argument I put forth do so. Furthermore, no one was being stripped of any rights on the basis of religious law. That is an absurd contention on your part.<br><br>I frankly do not know how you jumped to the erroneous conclusion that religion is the cause of this legislation failing on my part given that I specified clearly I was not putting forth an argument on the basis of religion for opposing homosexual marriage. I also clearly stated I was not Christian as well.<br><br>What I did assert was that  the church was not a hypocrite when it came to homosexuality which was the core point that CPL made. I then supported that assertion with the tenets of Christianity to refute the fallacious sweeping stereotypes CPL made regarding Christianity.  <br><br>Unlike you, I see no rights being denied to anyone, nor has a case been presented on this thread that demonstrates such.<br><br>Let\'s be clear. There is no fundamental right to marry in the constitution. Nor is it discriminatory to preserve marriage for it\'s intended purpose. There is equality under the law as all are held to the  exact same standards. It is not in the interest of society to change the definition of marriage so that homosexuals can use the institution as it was never intended.<br><br>Separate but equal is a specious argument. Interracial marriage affirmed the primary purpose of marriage to provide a mother and father to potential kids. Gay marriage does not affirm children. It affirms individual sexual liberties. The institution of marriage as defined provides benefits precisely because it is a burden to the individual in terms of rearing children. Individuals who marry give up rights and liberties for the benefit of society.  The antithesis of the gay agenda.  <br><br>There is no compelling state interest for people to operate as pairs/couples. Equality means equating like things, and a man couple/woman couple is not like a man/woman couple. A mother is not a father and a father is not a mother.Your premise suggests that all personal relationships are of equal value to society and that the law should not favor one over another. This relies on the flawed reasoning that marriage is only a religious or romantic relationship and that there is no compelling reason for the state to value one over the other. This where you and I disagree.<br><br>It is important that we have laws that protect children against discrimination and that is a compelling interest of the state that supercedes any individual quest to utilize the institution of marriage for selfish sexual liberties. Laws exist to ensure justice and to encourage certain behaviors that contribute to the higher goals of societal well-being. For that reason the laws are not discriminatory to encourage one set of behaviors over others and those behaviors  to then be  favored in public policies. Doing such creates a well-ordered and civil society that is focus on the best interest of children and maximizing the potential of human development.<br><br>You may not like that society has the right to encourage specific behaviors for its overall good but that does not mean that anyone\'s individual rights have been violated or denied.<br><br>Brothers and sisters cannot marry either in this society.  Which underscores the point that individual sexual liberties are not and never have been the intent of the sanctioned rights within the institution of marriage as granted by law.<br><br>Homosexuals have failed to demonstrate that they are discriminated against or more importantly that they provide a societal benefit which warrants the benefits provided by public policy and laws as part of the institution of marriage<br><br>It doesn\'t have anything to do with religion disguised as legislative mandates and everything to do with a humane society putting the interest of children first, knowing how important it is to not deliberatively deny a child a mother or father simply because their are adults who chose to demand the institution of marriage change so that they can revel in their own sexual desires.<br><br>How can we not put children first?</div>\
	 </div>\
	 </li>\
	 <li id="dsq-comment-3698443">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-header-3698443" class="dsq-comment-header">\
	 <cite id="dsq-cite-3698443" class="dsq-comment-cite">\
	 <span id="dsq-author-user-3698443">whiterosebuddy</span>\
	 </cite>\
	 </div>\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-body-3698443" class="dsq-comment-body">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-message-3698443" class="dsq-comment-message">Michelle, <br>You state:<br>"I am speaking of the actual function of this individual\'s contribution in the larger whole here at JJP....snip<br>I have never before been able to name in words the harm of fundamentalism/ideologues (of all types, on all sides of the spectrum) until observing the dynamics of this election season. And I am still learning, as I said above.<br>I do know that a collective/contribution approach to discussion is somewhat (or more than somewhat) alien in the larger culture. And it is certainly somewhat opposed to some elements of online discussions -- which in many contexts are about individual self-expression and/or argument for the sake of argument, rather than real mutual learning and real collective-focused dialogue."<br><br>Michelle, do I need to have a larger role here, to present an opposing argument?  Your remarks above seem to say to me that my minority voice is not welcome if it is not contributing to the majority of collective voices at JJP..is that so?  Am I to beleive that the majority on this site support homosexual marriage and will not contend opposing views?   <br><br>All of which I find truly astonishing given all the verbage about \'oppresion\' and discrimination of gays being tossed around.<br><br>Unbelievable.</div>\
	 </div>\
	 </li>\
	 <li id="dsq-comment-3698898">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-header-3698898" class="dsq-comment-header">\
	 <cite id="dsq-cite-3698898" class="dsq-comment-cite">\
	 <span id="dsq-author-user-3698898">Michelle</span>\
	 </cite>\
	 </div>\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-body-3698898" class="dsq-comment-body">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-message-3698898" class="dsq-comment-message">whiterosebuddy -- by my own assessment, I had a responsibility to call on you to be critically self-reflective and consider your function in the larger whole, and I did. How you respond to that is entirely your choice and your responsibility.<br><br>You know from prior discussions that you and I have some areas of agreement and some of deep disagreement on the issues you raise yet again. You know, or should know if you had been paying attention, that that I have publicly stated on this site that am not an advocate of the Marriage Equality Movement even though I am a lesbian. My reasons are complicated. This whole issue is complicated.<br><br>Your false oversimplified dichotomy of "majority" and "minority" (opposing) views erases the complexity and lived reality of what is under discussion here. Like much of your other writing on this topic in arguments about it, it obstructs real dialogue and real learning. Your response sacrifices some aspects of what is going on that I would prefer to retain. It is also another display of false/misleading victim-posturing.<br><br>I am not going to continue this discussion with you from here on. <br><br>If you have looked inside yourself in an honest way and by your own assessment, you have determined that you are acting correctly in what you are doing on this topic, that\'s on you -- how you assess your actions and act from there, how you engage here ... these things are your choice, and your responsibility.</div>\
	 </div>\
	 </li>\
	 <li id="dsq-comment-3699947">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-header-3699947" class="dsq-comment-header">\
	 <cite id="dsq-cite-3699947" class="dsq-comment-cite">\
	 <span id="dsq-author-user-3699947">whiterosebuddy</span>\
	 </cite>\
	 </div>\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-body-3699947" class="dsq-comment-body">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-message-3699947" class="dsq-comment-message">Help me out Michelle.  <br><br>When you use words like "collectively" with regard to contributions on a thread  while questioning the  intent of arguments  posed;  it sets up a dichotomy of challenging dissent vs. collective whole.<br><br>If that was not your intent, it is unclear to me what you are driving at.<br><br>I do consider it real dialogue to raise opposing views. There are other topics where I have views in the majority.  The marriage issue for same gender is not one of them.  <br><br>I did recall you were not advocating for the MEM and I guess that is what has me flummoxed about the questions you are raising in terms of my contribution to the collective whole.<br><br>I consider my position on the issue as having been presented honestly and truthfully. I am not trying to strike out at anyone individually or generate anger or pain. Unfortunately, this topic has greater propensity for that  perception as individuals beleive that their personal anecdotes are emotional game changers that should supercede all logic when they aren\'t .<br><br>So again, I apologize for any hurt feelings as that was not my intent.<br><br> I had simply hoped to have a well thought out discusion on the issue which at is core is about societal rights vs. individual rights. A point which I think gets lost because people view marriage as an individual benefit when the institution exists for societal benefit.<br><br>There are lots of similarities to this in terms of public school funding. Where individuals want to receive tax credits to send their kids to private schools. They do not want to uphold the fundamental belief in public schools which were set up to benefit society and so all Americans could receive an education as that is existent to a democracy...not as a tax burden that individuals could opt out of it, if they had the money to send their kids elsewhere under the assertion of \'double taxation\'\', Public education benefits the whole and it\'s intent is for democracy to flourish not for the individual to simply be \'educated\'<br><br>The claiming of  \'double taxation\' is analogous to gays claiming \'discrimination/separatebutequal\' when the facts are they are choosing not to adhere to the policies and standards set up for the overall good of society and that then does not connote victimhood..it simply says that policies that benefit entire communities are not discriminatory vs. the pursuit of individual liberties.</div>\
	 </div>\
	 </li>\
	 <li id="dsq-comment-3701319">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-header-3701319" class="dsq-comment-header">\
	 <cite id="dsq-cite-3701319" class="dsq-comment-cite">\
	 <a id="dsq-author-user-3701319" href="http://craighickman.blogspot.com" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">CraigHickman</a>\
	 </cite>\
	 </div>\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-body-3701319" class="dsq-comment-body">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-message-3701319" class="dsq-comment-message">Michelle, whiterosebuddy doth protest too much.<br><br>The closet is a terrible place to be. And one certainly can\'t have a rational discussion with someone who lives there and clings to... well...God and the guns of bigotry so vehemently in the defense of it.<br><br>Tarry no longer in a place with no doors.</div>\
	 </div>\
	 </li>\
	 <li id="dsq-comment-3705695">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-header-3705695" class="dsq-comment-header">\
	 <cite id="dsq-cite-3705695" class="dsq-comment-cite">\
	 <span id="dsq-author-user-3705695">whiterosebuddy</span>\
	 </cite>\
	 </div>\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-body-3705695" class="dsq-comment-body">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-message-3705695" class="dsq-comment-message">O what kindergarten games this post is....let\'s talk about the messenger yall. Let\'s seek to disparage and discredit them by making all types of false innuendos and malign their character. <br><br>Such grade school tactics are the hallmark that message is girded with unassailable substance and truth and no rational rebuttal can be marshalled to refute the logic and facts as stated.<br><br>Nice try Craig....did you throw sand at in the sandbox to get your way too?</div>\
	 </div>\
	 </li>\
	 <li id="dsq-comment-3705501">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-header-3705501" class="dsq-comment-header">\
	 <cite id="dsq-cite-3705501" class="dsq-comment-cite">\
	 <span id="dsq-author-user-3705501">awb</span>\
	 </cite>\
	 </div>\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-body-3705501" class="dsq-comment-body">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-message-3705501" class="dsq-comment-message">I don\'t see how keeping gays from being married detracts from the rights of society as a whole.  Procreation is not the main purpose of marriage historically.  Combining assests was also a purpose.  Economically, marriage is a benefit to society because it preserves familial wealth.  Also, gay people can have children as far as I know, the arguement that they cannot doesn\'t seem to be based on reality.  And no, I am not talking about adoption.  While I don\'t equate homosexual struggle for equality with black people per se, I do see that there are some of the same arguements being used to keep gays from marrying each other.  Ultimately, people who object and say that it will some how detract from society and "threaten" the children or marriage between a man and women are asking proponents to prove a negative.  In my view the opponents should really have to show a compelling interest in why they want to restrict it.  The catchphrases that they currently use seem to be coming directly from religion and I personally do not want that to be an influence on the constittution</div>\
	 </div>\
	 </li>\
	 <li id="dsq-comment-3772032">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-header-3772032" class="dsq-comment-header">\
	 <cite id="dsq-cite-3772032" class="dsq-comment-cite">\
	 <span id="dsq-author-user-3772032">Thelea</span>\
	 </cite>\
	 </div>\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-body-3772032" class="dsq-comment-body">\
	 <div id="dsq-comment-message-3772032" class="dsq-comment-message">This bears repeating since some people insist on fighting the phantom menace and not the true opponent.<br><br>I am upset about this erroneous finger pointing at African-Americans regarding Proposition 8.  Why are you so quick to believe whatever you hear?  If someone told me 70 percent of gay people voted against Obama my first thought would be, I don\'t believe it!   This political year was fraught with right wing lies. These right wing religious extremists are trying to deflect their responsibility for Proposition 8 to Black people and Black churches.Bear that in mind.<br><br>"Religious organizations that support Proposition 8 include the Roman Catholic Church], Knights of Columbus, Union of Orthodox Jewish Congregations of America, The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (Mormons) a group of Evangelical Christians led by Jim Garlow and Miles McPherson, American Family Association, Focus on the Family[and the National Organization for Marriage Rick Warren, pastor of Saddleback Church, California\'s largest, has also endorsed the measure. The Bishops of the California Catholic Conference released a statement supporting the proposition. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (Mormons) has publicly supported the proposition and encouraged their membership to support it, by asking its members to donate money and volunteer time. The First Presidency of the church announced its support for Proposition 8 in a letter read in every congregation. Latter-day Saints have provided a significant source for financial donations in support of the proposition, both inside and outside the State of California. About 45% of out-of-state contributions to Protect <a href="http://Marriage.com" rel="nofollow">Marriage.com</a> has come from Utah, over three times more than any other state… <br><br>Still, even though gays were fighting to preserve a basic right, it was the anti-equality side in California that seemed to have the most fervor. A symbolic low point for the gay side came on Oct. 13, when the Sacramento Bee ran a remarkable story about Rick and Pam Patterson, a Mormon couple of modest means - he drives a 10-year-old Honda Civic, she raises their five boys - who had withdrawn $50,000 from their savings account and given it to the pro-8 campaign. "It was a decision we made very prayerfully," Pam Patterson, 48, told the Bee\'s Jennifer Garza. "Was it an easy decision? No. But it was a clear decision, one that had so much potential to benefit our children and their children.”<br><br>This is their  real enemy. Don\'t trust exit polls. I think they are pitting one group against the other. African-Americans are less than 7% of the state population, do the math.  Many more Whites voted and they put this over, not Blacks. What are the total numbers of each group that voted. Someone dug into the data and found that we\'re just now learning is that the exit poll was based on less than 2,300 people. If you take into account that blacks in California only make up about 6.2%, we get roughly 224 blacks who were polled. 224 blacks to blame an entire race! The truth is, I have heard that Prop 8 passed because of Republican support. 82% of Republicans admitted to supporting the proposition. They were not the ones who came out to vote for Obama. One blogger states that  If you look at all the data, you\'ll see numbers for first time voters. They rejected Prop 8 by a 62-38 margin. These first time voters were overwhelmingly for Obama, 83-17. Without Obama, Prop 8 would have passed by a much larger margin.<br><br>I know someone who watches C-Span and they said most Blacks did not even address the question at all. And they do not have the money to fund a tens of millions of dollars Proposition 8 campaign. Note that they also targeted affirmative action for eradication in another state.<br><br>Rather than be upset at the phantom African-American menace, fight like hell. I cannot believe that these larger groups who came out in droves to craft and fund this legislation  get a pass and Blacks are being targeted for the blame game. There is no right wing black conspiracy against gay Americans.  When you tried to align your struggle with that of Blacks you inherited their enemies. These same enemies are now trying to pit one against the other because they fear the combined numbers of both. Even if Blacks stayed home it would have passed because the extreme religious right and republicans would have raised the dead to get them to vote for it. They funded that campaign, not Blacks.<br><br>How many gay activists supported the civil rights movement in the 1960’s?  Then how do you automatically expect support in return?  Have you asked Blacks to support you or did you just assume?<br><br>Fight this in the court of appeals and not the court of biased opinion by targeting Blacks for hatred and enmity.<br><br>The argument that this is analogous to slavery and the civil rights movement is insulting. Slavery renders people property without any rights. This is an argument for one with the others intact. If you are not married no one can whip you, sell your children, or work you to death. Please revisit your history books. And as for it being comparable to interracial marriage battles, again erroneous. Obama is biracial. So are the majority of African Americans, who do now wish to go into the sordid details of how that happened. He is not a rare bird to us. That is why we were so up in arms about miscegenation laws.  Forced sexual relationships were condoned and loving ones were not.  It was an affront and we wanted our women protected and respected.<br><br>Now let\'s all unite and fight this bigotry that the last 8 years has fostered and supported. It has placed a yoke around all our necks, Black and Gay.<br><br>Picket at the church headquarters because that is where this all started. And do so with respect and dignity like Gandhi and MLK.  I do not condone hate in any form but please recognize the difference between someone who does not agree with your lifestyle and someone who is actively seeking to deny you. Blacks are not actively working against you, that was the white church establishment with some black church support.  You know who these churches are. <br><br>Attack the weakest links and you gain nothing. Storm the bastions of power.</div>\
	 </div>\
	 </li>\
	 </ul>\
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