Jack and Jill Politics - Latest Comments in FISA-Jacking - Obama Takes the Lead

Re: FISA-Jacking - Obama Takes the Lead

NMP — Thu, 10 Jul 2008 14:01:40 -0000

THIS DOES NOT EFFECT DOMESTIC COMMUNICATION!!! THIS EFFECTS LESS THAN 1% OF THE AMERICAN PUBLIC. MOST AMERICANS DON'T HAVE PASSPORTS, SO HOW LIKELY IS IT THAT THEY ARE CALLING THE MIDDLE EAST OR SE ASIA?

As I stated, I don't need to put on a tin foil hat to imagine what the government might do. I'm witnessing it being done in black communities today, black RESIDENTIAL communities where white folks are transitioning in, the same white liberals who are up in arms about FISA, but are more than glad to have police check points and surveillance cameras in these neighborhoods for THEIR security.

Re: FISA-Jacking - Obama Takes the Lead

JibreelRiley — Thu, 10 Jul 2008 10:28:21 -0000

The sad thing is most of you clowns will forget this all happen come November. How about some good ole buyers remorse anyone?

Re: FISA-Jacking - Obama Takes the Lead

NO ID — Thu, 10 Jul 2008 09:38:03 -0000

THANK YOU!!!!

Re: FISA-Jacking - Obama Takes the Lead

RonnieB — Thu, 10 Jul 2008 08:54:03 -0000

As one of the old heads at JJP, I'm usually not one to play the "grow up!" card, but ... <flicks it in a certain direction> ...

one or two of y'all need it.

Re: FISA-Jacking - Obama Takes the Lead

CPL — Thu, 10 Jul 2008 08:02:01 -0000

Craig, the Blue Dog Dems who fast tracked this bill already have my outrage. I have them on that CBC Monitor Report Card, too, and some of them have finally earned primary challengers this go 'round.

Don't get me started on Conyers. I personally know that after the Downing Street ploy, he finally gets back his Chairmanship and Pelosi threatens to kick him out of it if he didn't back down on Impeachment proceedings. He's also 79 years old, and probably going senile, because a Conyers 15 years younger would have told Pelosi to kiss his ass for threatening him and his position.

Pelosi has long considered the CBC her personal slaves, and Mel Watt, Carolyn Cheeks Kilpatrick and Elijah Cummings have willingly obliged her in that thinking, even to the point of slinging Cynthia McKinney under the bus when she was assaulted by the Capitol Hill police. Pelosi told them to distance themselves from McKinney; Watt, Alcee Hastings and others willingly complied.

As you know, I'm from the San Francisco Bay Area, so I still have family there, and they tell me that Ms. Nancy has Cindy Sheehan to worry about right now. Sheehan may not win, but she will garner enough votes to send Ms. Nancy a message to listen to her constituents or in 2010, she might be facing Gavin Newsome next time. S.F. was the FIRST city to lead the Impeachment charge against Bush - how do you think those constituents felt when Nancy Pelosi took impeachment off the table?

I think Bush used FISA to spy on Congress Members and he has major blackmail shyt to use if they get out of line. That HAS to explain all the capitulation I've seen, even from Obama.

Re: FISA-Jacking - Obama Takes the Lead

heartsandflowers — Thu, 10 Jul 2008 06:50:52 -0000

Bush wasn't going to be prosecuted regardless. Once Pelosi took impeachment off the table it was over. Now had she received emails, phone calls, and attack ads from millions of people every day until she put it back on the table, we could have taken a powerful step to hold Bush accountable - and signed an acceptable version of FISA. But we didn't because as upset as some people may be it just isn't a singular priority to a majority of us.

Re: FISA-Jacking - Obama Takes the Lead

heartsandflowers — Thu, 10 Jul 2008 06:35:12 -0000

Thank you! Credo Mobile and T-Mobile did NOT violate FISA. Everyone who is complaining about the votes needs to back that ish up with ACTION by withdrawing their consumer support to the companies that did. Are we talking tens, hundreds, thousands or millions of people? All these people rushing out to buy their iPhones with AT&T service need to think seriously about what they're willing to say and what they're willing to do.

Re: FISA-Jacking - Obama Takes the Lead

ElevenFingerFreak — Thu, 10 Jul 2008 00:42:10 -0000

This is all about race. Most Black people are voting for him because he's the only Black candidate EVER who has support from whites (which means he could actually get elected). His white supporters feel so guilty about the war and how nonwhites are treated so they think putting any Black guy who doesn't scare the bejeezus out of them will atone for hundreds of years of bad behavior. Everyone else is just caught up in his charisma.

I doubt many other Black people are going to call him on this. Who wants to be the Judas who ruins the first viable Black candidate's chances?

Re: FISA-Jacking - Obama Takes the Lead

ElevenFingerFreak — Thu, 10 Jul 2008 00:20:56 -0000

Hillary is an opportunist. She knew this would make Obama look like an ass. But it was still the right call and her explanation was spot on. Too bad she can't make those kinds of ethical judgments under normal circumstances... :(

Re: FISA-Jacking - Obama Takes the Lead

ElevenFingerFreak — Thu, 10 Jul 2008 00:15:29 -0000

Keep waiting. Conyers aint doing squat. They are all part of the same corrupt system. As long as you play the game you have to play by the rules to win. If the game is corrupt then you have to become corrupt to beat everyone else. Conyers, Clinton, Pelosi, Obama, McCain, Bush, Reagan, etc... they all want to win and they're all playing the game. So Bush and the rest will walk away scott free.

Don't be too shocked if the next POTUS gives Bush a blanket pardon a la Gerald Ford with the excuse being that we should put all the unpleasantness of the past 8 years behind us...

Re: FISA-Jacking - Obama Takes the Lead

ElevenFingerFreak — Thu, 10 Jul 2008 00:11:05 -0000

That's what my issue is. I think he used us netroots types to beat Hillary and now that he's done that he's hanging us out to dry.

Re: FISA-Jacking - Obama Takes the Lead

ElevenFingerFreak — Thu, 10 Jul 2008 00:09:31 -0000

Just in case I'm not clear here... THIS WAS A DEAL BREAKER. OBAMA CAN KISS THIS MIDDLE CLASS BLACK PERSON'S VOTE GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOD-BYE!

Re: FISA-Jacking - Obama Takes the Lead

CraigHickman — Thu, 10 Jul 2008 00:08:24 -0000

One of the reasons why sitting Senators don't get elected President all that often is because of shit like this.

That seems to be lost on all those with ulcers.

Now we're choosing between 2 sitting senators.

One voted on the bill. One did not.

The one who didn't hasn't voted on a bill since, um.... well.... hmmm...

I'll get back to you.

Re: FISA-Jacking - Obama Takes the Lead

ElevenFingerFreak — Thu, 10 Jul 2008 00:08:22 -0000

My wife tells me that we are, thanks to our yearly income, members of the Black middle class and we most certainly care about our poor brothers and sisters. And considering how often our constitutional rights as Black people have been pushed aside for political or economic convenience by the ruling class, I am especially sensitive to seeing the Bill of Rights trampled on. The Democrats have largely sold us down the river. The Fourth Amendment isn't dead but boy oh boy we are in for an uphill fight to dislodge this hot stinking pile of crap law. Obama could've rallied the Dems to put up a good fight but instead he tried to score nonexistent political points with people who weren't gonna vote for him anyway. For that reason Obama will not see any more money, organizing, phone calls or proselytizing from me ever again. I don't suffer centrists, conservatives, fascists or sellouts once I know what's up.

As for the Clintons, I gave up on them after the whole welfare reform debacle. I thought that was big time fail. That and Hillary's vote for Iraq War II were contributing factors to my opposition to Hillary's presidential campaign.

Re: FISA-Jacking - Obama Takes the Lead

CraigHickman — Thu, 10 Jul 2008 00:06:15 -0000

Tell the truth.

Re: FISA-Jacking - Obama Takes the Lead

msmartin — Wed, 09 Jul 2008 23:56:27 -0000

Nixon was spying on Democrats, not terrorists - this is a stretch.

Re: FISA-Jacking - Obama Takes the Lead

msmartin — Wed, 09 Jul 2008 23:52:30 -0000

That's my point, selective outrage.

Re: FISA-Jacking - Obama Takes the Lead

Honey01 — Wed, 09 Jul 2008 23:25:34 -0000

I'm outraged. I'm outraged at the lack of coverage that McSane gets for his obvious flip flops, gaffes, and just general insanity.

Poor Rachel Maddow (bless her) has been doing her damnest filling in for Keith to point out every inconsistency, but it simply just does not have any traction.

Did anyone see the Vietnam veteran who confronted McSane at one of his town hall meetings? You know the town hall meetings that he does so well connecting with people. Well, the veteran took him to task questioning him on his voting record in regards to veteran affairs (most recently Senator Webb's GI Bill) for the last several years. McSane was completely caught off guard and basically never answered the question, repeating the same meme that he has perfect record according to all military groups. This meme again was debunked by the vet.

I am not sure who said it, but it was mentioned that this election is a "referendum on Obama". It surely appears that way because McCain can get away with hella.

Re: FISA-Jacking - Obama Takes the Lead

CKW — Wed, 09 Jul 2008 22:49:08 -0000

Correction, it was White liberals and the Black middle class who didn't care about the shift to the center of the Clinton administration. It has been apparent that the Black middle class could really care less about the Black poor.

Re: FISA-Jacking - Obama Takes the Lead

bigassbelle — Wed, 09 Jul 2008 22:17:37 -0000

and i will tell you this, as a woman. when george bush introduced nancy pelosi as the first female speaker of the house, i got tears in my eyes. it was a joyous, wonderful occasion, i loved it. i was so excited.

and then she sold out. and i can't wait to get her gone. she let us down, she sold us out, i despise her as much as i do the other sellouts in congress.

should i have given her a free pass because she is a woman? the first? hardly. obama doesn't get a free pass because his very candidacy is something so many of us have dreamed of. or at least he shouldn't, in a free country. but i don't think we're really free here. we just say the words and pretend. no constitution. no laws. no freedom.

Re: FISA-Jacking - Obama Takes the Lead

bigassbelle — Wed, 09 Jul 2008 22:15:30 -0000

good grief, if we can't discuss him and we have to accept everything he does, solely because it is a magnificent and glorious thing to have him as the democratic nominee, then we are in terrible, terrible danger in this country and in far worse shape than even i imagined.

Re: FISA-Jacking - Obama Takes the Lead

bigassbelle — Wed, 09 Jul 2008 22:12:51 -0000

that it allows future criminal prosecution by an Obama Administration

with all due respect, that is incorrect.

Re: FISA-Jacking - Obama Takes the Lead

anonymous — Wed, 09 Jul 2008 21:51:15 -0000

LOL! Exactly. If you sell your candidate as the agent of change and the harbinger of a new politics, you don't get to switch tunes when he acts like every other spineless hack to "Well, he's better than McCain."

New York is so heavily Democratic that I can vote for whomever the hell I want, but I'm certainly hoping that Obama won't have disappointed me so badly by November that I'll be forced to write in Howard the Duck.

Re: FISA-Jacking - Obama Takes the Lead

anonymous — Wed, 09 Jul 2008 21:34:06 -0000

Clinton voted against it. And I hope she's getting some joy from watching Obama forced to vote conservatively to appeal to the lowest common national denominator, as she routinely was forced to do in anticipation of her presidential run--and in the face of a media that pounced on her every move.

Not that I'm planning on holding my breath for either Obama or the more vociferously less discerning of his supporters to come to this realization.

Props to Jill for this post. I don't think that Obama's stance makes him any less of a politician than Clinton, and I'll still vote for him in November: it's just disappointing to see him cave like any other hack after all of that brave talk about change.

Re: FISA-Jacking - Obama Takes the Lead

fafnir — Wed, 09 Jul 2008 20:44:55 -0000

No, not more worthy of my support; however, Hillary and the others who opposed the bill are certainly worthy of praise.