Jack and Jill Politics - Latest Comments in Friday Open Thread…..yeah, it’s Friday

Re: Friday Open Thread…..yeah, it’s Friday

Anonymous — Sat, 28 Jun 2008 00:29:00 -0000

To Truthseeker: Do you really think that Mr. O meant that? {i.e. "she rock"} If her supporters think so - Good! Old school song - "It's All In The Game".
[P.s. I'm the "MOVE ON Anon. Don't want any confusion. :>)]

Re: Friday Open Thread…..yeah, it’s Friday

TruthSeeker — Fri, 27 Jun 2008 23:22:00 -0000

Barack is so full of shit...up there talking 'bout "she rocks"..lol!

Re: Friday Open Thread…..yeah, it’s Friday

Nellcote — Fri, 27 Jun 2008 20:46:00 -0000

Barack gets carded!

http://thehill.com/leading-the-news/whos-that-man-obama-asked-for-id-at-gym-2008-06-27.html

Re: Friday Open Thread…..yeah, it’s Friday

rikyrah — Fri, 27 Jun 2008 20:41:00 -0000

no need to say rape and murder. If you kill a child, it's murder, and they'd get the death penalty anyway. The criminal wouldn't skip the death penalty if he only killed the child and didn't rape it too.

No, I don't think he has any problem with ridding us of child rapists.

I agree with us ridding ourselves of child rapists; I just disagree on the method.

Re: Friday Open Thread…..yeah, it’s Friday

Fri, 27 Jun 2008 20:40:00 -0000

This is interesting:

Claude Castonguay is the father of socialized medicine in Canada. In the 1960s, he chaired a Quebec commission whose recommendation of a government-run health care system for that province was adopted, and quickly spread to the rest of the country. Now, after forty years of experience with socialized medicine, Castonguay has changed his mind:

Four decades later, as the chairman of a government committee reviewing Quebec health care this year, Castonguay concluded that the system is in "crisis."

"We thought we could resolve the system's problems by rationing services or injecting massive amounts of new money into it," says Castonguay. But now he prescribes a radical overhaul: "We are proposing to give a greater role to the private sector so that people can exercise freedom of choice."

A novel idea! When the first countries adopted socialized medicine, it was a mistake. For the U.S. to do it now, in the face of disastrous experience wherever it has been tried, would be a crime.

Re: Friday Open Thread…..yeah, it’s Friday

Michelle — Fri, 27 Jun 2008 19:15:00 -0000

... and this comment (#23) in the discussion of that Marriage Amendment story: -- Mark Foley is no longer able to cosponsor, but I understand he and Ted Haggard will be making appearances to promote the Amendment at boys’ schools around the country.

*snort*

Re: Friday Open Thread…..yeah, it’s Friday

Michelle — Fri, 27 Jun 2008 19:11:00 -0000

texas girl in L.A.

No way.

hahahah!

Who needs satire when we have reality?

Re: Friday Open Thread…..yeah, it’s Friday

texas girl in l.a. — Fri, 27 Jun 2008 19:09:00 -0000

Ok wait...heheheheh

Guess who are co-sponsors of the new Federal Marriage Amendment (Marriage Protection Amendment)?

Anyone...anyone....

Larry Craig and David Vitter

http://www.thecarpetbaggerreport.com/archives/16020.html

Re: Friday Open Thread…..yeah, it’s Friday

Webb — Fri, 27 Jun 2008 19:04:00 -0000

s,

Ginsberg and Stevens were in the minority on that decision. Kennedy was the swing vote.

Is it good leadership? You can not lead if you do not win...

Re: Friday Open Thread…..yeah, it’s Friday

Fri, 27 Jun 2008 18:56:00 -0000

webb,

You misunderstood. Obama will be sure to appoint judges like Ginsberg, Kennedy, and Stevens.

Covering his bets may be good politics, but is it leadership?

Re: Friday Open Thread…..yeah, it’s Friday

Michelle — Fri, 27 Jun 2008 18:55:00 -0000

Michelle Obama on one of the many LGBT issues out there:

The World As It Should Be: What Michelle Really Said

Now if those of us who are L, G, B and/or T can just stay focused on what Senator Obama's actual role is, and not project all our hopes and dreams on him (he is not going to lead our fights and he should not!) ... we and others can maybe fully appreciate what Mrs. Obama is saying here and its consistency with what Senator Obama has been saying for some time.

I say this knowing that Senator Obama also recently met and is deliberately reaching out to evangelical Christians -- who not only have actual LGBT people among them (it's true!) but also are as real and present a part of this nation as us non-evangelical-Christian LGBT people.

I could say that their theology teaches *them* to hate *us* (under the guise of our sexuality being a sin). But the they/we distinction breaks down somewhat knowing the lived reality of people like my girlfriend. She left the Southern Baptist church (where she was raised and active) in her early 20s. But NOT because she was a lesbian. She left because the theology unraveled for her, and particularly in its suggestion that Jews would go to hell -- she had a Jewish teacher, friend and mentor and couldn't accept that.

Once that piece went, my girlfriend's sharp mind saw the whole theology fall apart. It wasn't til she was 30 that she came out to herself. Then later she ended up in a relationship with a Jew herself.

To me understanding the range of who and what makes up this country, and acting from a non-us/them approach is all part of what it means for Senator Obama to so accurately and effectively seek the presidency of this country. I see him knowing, learning and acting in response to what it is actually capable of -- and what it is not.

Re: Friday Open Thread…..yeah, it’s Friday

Webb — Fri, 27 Jun 2008 18:39:00 -0000

LoL @ s. who said...

My guess would be that [Obama] would continue to appoint judges in the mold of those who rendered the majority opinion in that case.

So you're saying that Obama would appooint Scalias and Thomases to the court like George W. Bush wanted to do. Hunh? Are you out of your ____ mind?

And s. also said...

But don't you know that Obama is trying to make a play for Evangelical voters?

Sure, he's making a play for evangelical voters. It's called "politics." Barack Obama is a politician. He seeks to win elections.

For all of the FISA-feely types, say that Barack voted against it and a terrorist strike occurs before the elections...Bush and McCain could hammer *O* for leaving America vulnerable by not supporting the bill.

Barack is "covering his bets," as any good politician should do.

Re: Friday Open Thread…..yeah, it’s Friday

icebergslim — Fri, 27 Jun 2008 18:24:00 -0000

Reunited and it feels so good...

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/6/27/16495/0128/59/543029

Re: Friday Open Thread…..yeah, it’s Friday

Anonymous — Fri, 27 Jun 2008 17:37:00 -0000

As I mentioned, heartsandflowers, I'm enjoying the conversations I'm having here and appreciate everyone who is engaging whether I agree with them or not. One of the joys of blogs is that you can choose to ignore the comments of people who bug you. But until you're king, or unless you're the blogmaster, no individual controls who has the right to speak and who does not.

Re: Friday Open Thread…..yeah, it’s Friday

Michelle — Fri, 27 Jun 2008 17:27:00 -0000

Truthseeker, you wrote: I'm not liking what I'm feeling from O lately. It doesn't feel like bravery or boldness or confidence...it feels like excessive calculation. Maybe he's carrying unresolved anger from the primary, and it's jamming the signal..LOL!

and

Maybe it's my signal that's jammed! From day to day, I don't know what exactly I feel about the Obama campaign. At the beginning, there was a clear, consistent signal. Now, it's like schizophrenia. My sense is there's discord between Obama the man, and his advisers who have a job to do in getting him elected. At the beginning, I thought I could say who he was. Now, I'm not entirely sure. Whatever.

FWIW, I am not feeling that from him.

I am feeling grounded truth-telling in action -- truth-telling that is painful for some/many to see because it says some ugly things about this country that, for some, getting through the day requires avoidance of.

And you wrote: My sense is that America needs a hero, not someone who capitulates.

He is not a hero and to my knowledge has never said he would be or should be. He is -- and he makes this very clear to my ears and eyes -- part of a large collective (this nation) that I think he attends to and understands EXTREMELY well. The fact that this collective has its painful conflicted and ugly sides is not coming from him. He is not and cannot be a hero. He is nothing isolated from the collective he is listening to, observing, feeling and acting on behalf of.

And: My parakeet just said "It's just the scary."

Re: Friday Open Thread…..yeah, it’s Friday

TruthSeeker — Fri, 27 Jun 2008 17:25:00 -0000

s,

As for victory in Iraq. Maybe you need to re-asses what victory is. You are looking for an honourable outcome from a dishonourable war. Perhaps victory is not possible in those circumstances except to admit a mistake and take actions to correct the injustice immediately. Right now, the error is being compounded. Think of all the disabled soldiers...all the dead ones and their families. You are willing to sacrifice their lives for "victory"?

Yes, Saddam was a bastard, but was not an imminent threat to the USA.

Re: Friday Open Thread…..yeah, it’s Friday

Fri, 27 Jun 2008 17:02:00 -0000

webb,

But don't you know that Obama is trying to make a play for Evangelical voters? Who knows where he really stands? My guess would be that he would continue to appoint judges in the mold of those who rendered the majority opinion in that case.

Defense of innocent life, from the unborn to victims of child abuse are very difficult moral arguments and split many individuals in both directions.

Re: Friday Open Thread…..yeah, it’s Friday

Fri, 27 Jun 2008 16:53:00 -0000

'Blank screen' are Obama's words, describing himself. He is proud of his ability to appear to be many different things to many different types of people. This, in and of itself, makes me uneasy.

I wish I could share your confidence in the man, but I just don't know what I am getting for my vote. Yes, he's eloquent and charismatic, likable enough, but he has yet to persuade me of his ability to be a strong, principled leader.

I am looking for a candidate who will provide:

Energy Independence

Victory in Iraq/War on Terror

Sound tax policy that will keep a struggling economy from falling into recession.

School Choice

Moderate, pragmatic judges.

Re: Friday Open Thread…..yeah, it’s Friday

TruthSeeker — Fri, 27 Jun 2008 16:36:00 -0000

s,

"blank screen"...hardly.

Here's what I do know:

1 Obama is not dumb. Actually, he's extremely intelligent.

2 He's a decent human being; a good person in whose care I would feel safe.

3 Obama is not perfect...but is pretty damn close!

Re: Friday Open Thread…..yeah, it’s Friday

Webb — Fri, 27 Jun 2008 16:27:00 -0000

The death penalty is the greatest hypocrisy of the Religious Right.

How can you accept the teachings of Jesus Christ and endorse the death penalty? What would Jesus do? Would he pull the switch? Would he give the injection?

People who call themselves Christians and accept the death penalty based on "old testament" doctrine really, really need to check themselves...that includes Barack Obama.

That being said, i'm still supporting him though I strongly disagree about this issue.

Re: Friday Open Thread…..yeah, it’s Friday

Anonymous — Fri, 27 Jun 2008 16:24:00 -0000

To: Heartsandflowers: THANK YOU for your eloquent statment to the other Anon. I just began blogging and I am on a learning curve at this time. So I'm learning the "how's and the rules" :>) Thank you for your leadership. I was glad to see that an "experienced blogger"-such as yourself also said "NOW MOVE ON."

Re: Friday Open Thread…..yeah, it’s Friday

Fri, 27 Jun 2008 16:23:00 -0000

He's a 'blank screen.'

Re: Friday Open Thread…..yeah, it’s Friday

TruthSeeker — Fri, 27 Jun 2008 16:21:00 -0000

Ha! I've got his books on audio and haven't listened to them yet...

The quote:

"..the rape and murder of a child.."

I wonder if he meant rape OR murder.

I'm not saying O is wrong to feel whatever he feels. It's just that my experience of it is no longer clear and consistent. Maybe it's just me.

Re: Friday Open Thread…..yeah, it’s Friday

rikyrah — Fri, 27 Jun 2008 15:59:00 -0000

Obama's support for the Death Penalty for child rape was in

The Audacity of Hope:

Here you go, found it at Andrew Sullivan's.:

Obama's support for the execution of child rapists wasn't invented for the presidential election; it dates back to The Audacity of Hope, where he wrote:

"While the evidence tells me that the death penalty does little to deter crime, I believe there are some crimes--mass murder, the rape and murder of a child--so heinous, so beyond the pale, that the community is justified in expressing the full measure of its outrage by meting out the ultimate punishment."

Re: Friday Open Thread…..yeah, it’s Friday

Fri, 27 Jun 2008 15:43:00 -0000

Listening to Obama's energy policy mantra today, I am underwhelmed. It is still "wind, solar, biofuels and green energy that will create millions of new jobs." But he must know that neither wind nor solar will do much to power transportation; and should we go to electric, millions of Americans who plug their autos in at night at least for the next few decades would need either more clean coal or nuclear to power them.

He is for subsidizing inefficient corn ethanol at a time of record-high fuel and corn prices, while supporting tariffs on the importation of more efficient sugar-based biofuels.

In short, by opposing all drilling in Anwar, off the coasts, the continental shelf, and omitting any reference to coal, tar sands, shale, or nuclear, he apparently thinks that millions of acres of new solar panels and hundreds of thousands of wind turbines dotting our mountain crests and deserts, together with millions more acres devoted to corn, will somehow bring gas prices down or make energy more affordable.

Bob Zubrin writes:

"Let’s stop fooling around. This year the United States will import 5 billion barrels of oil. At $130/barrel, the bill for that will come to $650 billion, or more than five times the cost of the Iraq war. Add to that $400 billion the Americans will pay for domestic oil, and our total fuel bill this year will come to over a trillion dollars, and the world as a whole will pay $4 trillion. These petroleum costs are up a factor of twelve from what they were in 1999, and represent a huge highly-regressive tax on the world economy. For Americans, the $1000 billion oil levy is equivalent to a 40% increase in income taxes across the board - with sixty percent the sum being paid over in tribute to foreign governments.

So, as a result of this massive tax increase — by far the largest in American history — the United States is being driven into a recession. Subjected to the same tax, Europe and Japan will follow, while poor third world countries who can afford high oil prices even less will be pushed towards starvation. And as the misery spreads, the Saudis and other OPEC potentates are putting together huge Sovereign Wealth Funds to execute takeovers of the western corporations their extortion forces into insolvency. Indeed, OPEC will clear $1.5 trillion in net export profits this year. The entire worth of the US Fortune 500 is $18 trillion. So at their current rate of looting, OPEC will accumulate enough cash to buy majority control of the entire Fortune 500 within 6 years!"

On June 24, McCain put forward a proposal that could really make a difference. This was his call to require that all new cars sold in the USA be flex fueled.

Flex fuel cars can run on any combination of alcohol (including methanol and ethanol) or gasoline. The technology is readily available and it only costs about $100 per vehicle.

Making America a flex-fuel vehicle market would effectively make flex-fuel the international standard, as all significant foreign car makers would be impelled to convert their lines over as well. Within three years of such a mandate, there would be 50 million cars on the road in the USA capable of running on alternate fuels, and hundreds of millions more worldwide. Around the globe, gasoline would be forced to compete at the pump against alcohol fuels made from any number of sources, including not only current commercial crops like corn and sugar, but cellulosic ethanol made from crop residues and weeds, as well as methanol, which can be made from any kind of biomass without exception, as well as coal, natural gas, and recycled urban trash. Creating such an open-source fuel market would enormously expand and diversify humanity’s fuel resource base, protecting all nations from continued blackmail, robbery, and in some cases, starvation, induced by the oil cartel.

Methanol is selling today, without any subsidy, for $1.50/gallon on the spot market, equivalent in energy terms to gasoline at $2.80/gallon. Make cars that can choose between methanol and gasoline, and the power of OPEC to set high prices will be broken for good — everywhere in the world.