Jack and Jill Politics - Latest Comments in Friday Open Thread…..yeah, it’s Friday

Re: Friday Open Thread…..yeah, it’s Friday

Gary Baumgarten — Tue, 17 Jun 2008 10:01:00 -0000

Pat Buchanan will be my guest on News Talk Online on Paltalk.com Wed. June 18 at 5 PM New York time.

Go to my blog, www.garybaumgarten.com and click on the link to the show to talk or listen to Buchanan.

Re: Friday Open Thread…..yeah, it’s Friday

Diana — Sat, 07 Jun 2008 16:21:00 -0000

Lordy Anonymous, I didn't endorse it. I'd not seen anything similar, but maybe that's because I'm not New Agey myself. The Kool-aid drinkers don't diminish Obama or the majority of his supporters. The really interesting bit (I thought) was that it was written, in spite of himself, by one of the San Francisco Chronicle's regular columnists, the highly jaded (until now anyway)& funny curmudgeon Mark Morford. He warned you not to read it! Repeatedly. Too "gooey".

And actually, I really don't care why any particular individual supports Obama. A vote's a vote.

(I had to delete & repost this because I got the Examiner & the Chronicle mixed up - excuse me)

Re: Friday Open Thread…..yeah, it’s Friday

Anonymous — Sat, 07 Jun 2008 08:43:00 -0000

diana,

GMAFB.

A joke that reinforces the koolaid drinking 'Obamabot' hero worship, 'messiah', cult of personality.

By all means 'drink up' if it makes you feel better.

Absolute new age drivel.

Re: Friday Open Thread…..yeah, it’s Friday

Diana — Sat, 07 Jun 2008 03:40:00 -0000

Mark Morford (San Francisco Gate)on Obama the Lightworker

http://www.sfgate.com/

cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/g/a/2008/06/06

/notes060608.DTL

Re: Friday Open Thread…..yeah, it’s Friday

Michelle — Sat, 07 Jun 2008 00:28:00 -0000

Jelana,

You don't have to go listen to the calls.

That's exactly the thing though. They didn't tell us this would be what it was. They said it was a "National LGBT Conference Call" and this, from the invitation email, is how they described what it was in the email they sent inviting participation yesterday 6/05:

On this call, we will give a status report of our campaign as a whole, discuss LGBT policy, provide suggestions for how you can be involved and answer questions and hear your concerns.

That is what the Obama campaign actually said in the invitation email I got yesterday.

That was not good information to help make an informed decision about whether I should or should not "go listen to the call."

For sure if they had said it was about letting Hillary supporters mourn, I would have stayed away and assumed they were doimg what they needed to do, without question. They could have said this various nice ways, including calling it a unity event with an emphasis on welcoming Clinton's LGBT supporters into the fold. Or something like that.

That is not what they did.

I actually suspect that maybe they had an initial approach planned that fit that description better, and it got hijacked by the Human Rights Campaign possibly in cahoots with Clinton.

Whatever the case, I appreciate good basic information about what something is, so I can know when to stay away.

Because I think you're probably right, it's probably best to let them do what they're doing and just stay away from it under these kinds of circumstances if need be. I know I'm not going to participate in any more "national conference calls" from this campaign.

Re: Friday Open Thread…..yeah, it’s Friday

rikyrah — Sat, 07 Jun 2008 00:21:00 -0000

Sasha turns 7 this weekend...she's having a slumber party...Daddy's doing Pizza duty..LOL

Re: Friday Open Thread…..yeah, it’s Friday

Fri, 06 Jun 2008 23:57:00 -0000

For several decades, the Democratic Party has pursued policies designed to drive up the cost of petroleum, and therefore gas at the pump. Remarkably, the Democrats don't seem to have taken much of a political hit from the current spike in gas prices. Probably that's because most people don't realize how different the two parties' energy policies have been.

ANWR Exploration House Republicans: 91% Supported House Democrats: 86% Opposed

Coal-to-Liquid

House Republicans: 97% Supported

House Democrats: 78% Opposed

Oil Shale Exploration

House Republicans: 90% Supported

House Democrats: 86% Opposed

Outer Continental Shelf (OCS) Exploration

House Republicans: 81% Supported

House Democrats: 83% Opposed

Refinery Increased Capacity

House Republicans: 97% Supported

House Democrats: 96% Opposed

SUMMARY

91% of House Republicans have historically voted to increase the production of American-made oil and gas.

86% of House Democrats have historically voted against increasing the production of American-made oil and gas

Re: Friday Open Thread…..yeah, it’s Friday

rikyrah — Fri, 06 Jun 2008 23:04:00 -0000

The only thing I know about the LGBT community politically is what Andrew Sullivan brings up, from time to time. It seems as if Hillpatine had a hardcore group.

Obama knows what he's doing; what he must do.

He's Jackie Robinson; doesn't mean he is weak.

Re: Friday Open Thread…..yeah, it’s Friday

rikyrah — Fri, 06 Jun 2008 23:01:00 -0000

I would like show appreciation for the prayer for the Obamas.

Re: Friday Open Thread…..yeah, it’s Friday

jelana — Fri, 06 Jun 2008 22:54:00 -0000

michelle,

From my take it seems that the LGBT

community from HRC is moving over to Obama. Let them mourn. You don't have to go listen to the calls. We need every vote we can get. I don't see this as him pandering or being pushed around in this instance. His team I believe is just attempting to be compassionate.

Re: Friday Open Thread…..yeah, it’s Friday

Michelle — Fri, 06 Jun 2008 22:01:00 -0000

And in a general follow-up about the LGBT conference call, there's a pretty interesting discussion going on about it at Daily Kos here:

Anyone on the OBAMA LGBT conference call?

It's on the rec list now, apparently.

I'm "Michellebird" in the discussion and trying hard to be more measured in what I say. Don't know how well that's going, but seems ok :)

One very interesting comment IMO is from ChristieKeith who wrote:

my girlfriend supported Clinton. I'm aware that many of her supporters feel really bad right now. My response to my feelings about what I see Clinton having done in this election is not to demonize her or her supporters, but to focus on our common goals and on the general election.

That's why this call felt so off to me, because it was all this very elaborate hand-holding and endless time spent on their "emotional processing," it really struck me as bizarre, frankly. [emphasis mine - Michelle]

Like I said, I cried like a baby over Howard Dean. I love my girlfriend and I'm sad that she's sad. But this went way, way beyond any kind of welcome or unity into group therapy or something. Freaked me right out.

The reason I think this comment is so insightful is that it ties in to what I have seen of the Wounded White Woman dynamic playing out in all of this (which may apparently expand to include white gay men in this particular case ... I don't know).

Re: Friday Open Thread…..yeah, it’s Friday

Michelle — Fri, 06 Jun 2008 21:46:00 -0000

Ms. Martin,

How did you come to be involved in the conference call?

I was contacted via email by the campaign yesterday inviting me to be part of it. I think they got my email address/info because I filled out a survey they recently sent out -- either to everyone registered on their website or to everyone who donated or along those lines. IN the survey I checked the LGBT box or whatever it was.

So I got an email yesterday, signed up from there, then got the call-in number emailed to me.

About hanging up, I literally could not bear to listen one second more at that point.

Re: Friday Open Thread…..yeah, it’s Friday

Ms.Martin — Fri, 06 Jun 2008 20:46:00 -0000

Michelle

I don't blame you for hanging up - I'm not willing to concede to the demands of the losers who have adopted illary's I'm entitled attitude.

How did you come to be involved in the conference call?

Re: Friday Open Thread…..yeah, it’s Friday

TruthSeeker — Fri, 06 Jun 2008 20:39:00 -0000

I hear ya loud and clear Michelle & Jelana. I feel a revulsion also for everything she stands for. I fear that they may plant their poisonous seeds of division within the Obama operation.

Hillary and her flunky Mayhill Fowler already set a trap for Barack by playing on his insecurities about not getting the white blue collar vote. That's when he tried to explain and talked about clinging to guns etc.

The funny thing is, there was no evidence that he was getting less of the white vote than other candidates.

The second trap was to accuse him of not wearing a flag pin while they were not wearing one. Rather than turn it back on them, he tried to reach out and explain.

Barack may be far too willing to accept responsibility for things that are not his fault or not even true...just because he's a decent human being.

Perhaps he might feel responsible somehow for alienating the fringe Hillary supporters. It's a trap if her panders to their phony outrage.

Re: Friday Open Thread…..yeah, it’s Friday

Leila — Fri, 06 Jun 2008 19:54:00 -0000

I just want to talk about the stick. My Arab-American father was always carving up walking sticks. He collected them - he had a few from his father in Lebanon, my grandfather. At my father's funeral I brought one of his walking sticks up to the lectern to hold as I spoke about him.

I love this picture and I love the man who carved the stick. Go Obama.

(even though I am very, very disappointed about his speech to AiPAC this week. Whatever. He's a politician, he isn't the Messiah and I never thought so)

Re: Friday Open Thread…..yeah, it’s Friday

jelana — Fri, 06 Jun 2008 19:42:00 -0000

truthseeker

Her presence is a complete turn off for me. I totally agree with you!

Re: Friday Open Thread…..yeah, it’s Friday

teacher — Fri, 06 Jun 2008 19:41:00 -0000

Val, thank you for that beautiful prayer. I will be praying it for him every day. I was also concerned about him today as I watched footage of him shaking hands with the masses. I said, "Lord, please don't let anyone stick him with anything." I feel better since I've prayed that beautiful prayer for him.

Jack Cafferty blasted the Cryptster today, & many emailers blasted hillbilly. Cafferty implicated McCain, who has been in office since 9-11, in agreeing with the invasion of a soverign nation who hadn't done anything to us & not working to secure the borders, yet saying that he has the plan & experience for national defense. Some emailers said to him that if hillary is serious about party unity, then she will transfer her delegates. They predict that she will have a big surprise for all of us at the convention. You know there is going to be bus loads of them at the convention.

Re: Friday Open Thread…..yeah, it’s Friday

Michelle — Fri, 06 Jun 2008 19:39:00 -0000

Truthseeker, you know what? The my feeling of that call was of being unexpectedly dipped into a toxic pool. It was like walking into what I thought was a truth-friendly context and being slammed with deception.

That kind of energy isn't at ALL what I have felt from Senator Obama and his campaign in the past. In fact what I have previously felt from his campaign and from him is the opposite of that kind of energy. And that is why I support him to begin with.

But what I felt does resonate strongly with how I have been feeling Ms. Hillary's thing all along.

And it's more than frustration, Truthseeker. It's the kind of visceral disgust and revulsion that I never ever thought I would feel in relation to Senator Obama's efforts on anything.

So -- yeah, I think you're right when you say: Ah, so they are still trying to set the agenda.

And in this case, in my feeling of it at least, they succeeded.

Re: Friday Open Thread…..yeah, it’s Friday

jelana — Fri, 06 Jun 2008 19:38:00 -0000

It probably would have been better to get the full story and then express your displeasure directly. I definitely hope this was a misunderstanding.

Re: Friday Open Thread…..yeah, it’s Friday

TruthSeeker — Fri, 06 Jun 2008 19:27:00 -0000

Ah, so they are still trying to set the agenda.

I feel in my bones that Obama should close the door on Hillary and Bill campaigning for him. This kissing of asses will not end well, it never does. They cannot feed the dissatisfaction of these women.

Hillary's mere presence on the campaign trail is a monument to her supposed victimhood.

Hillary still has the message on her site "Stand with Hillary". Silly me, but I thought there was no Hillary to stand with any longer. Why doesn't she release her delegates? Why isn't there a prominent banner with congratulations to Obama? This woman is not finished. She's just been forced underground.

I hear your frustration, Michelle.

Re: Friday Open Thread…..yeah, it’s Friday

Michelle — Fri, 06 Jun 2008 19:04:00 -0000

PS to above rant: For context, I forgot to mention that the Obama campaign organizer of the call mentioned early on that there were nearly 1200 people on the call including some (many?) Hillary Clinton supporters. So it was not about educating Obama supporters alone, it was something else.

Re: Friday Open Thread…..yeah, it’s Friday

Michelle — Fri, 06 Jun 2008 19:00:00 -0000

This is a rant of a sort I never expected I would ever have to do.

I don't know if it's right for me to post this here; I apologize if it's out of line.

I just hung up on what was billed as a National LGBT conference call hosted by the Obama campaign.

I am actually so angry about this I am sick to my stomach. This is the first time I have felt actually negative about anything from Senator Obama's campaign. This is what I wrote in the comment form through the Obama website (though I don't even trust that anyone is going to read it ... wow I am really upset about this)

I just hung up the conference call. I am appalled.

I thought this was going to be a call about LGBT issues. Instead I heard Steve start out by making Black women invisible (it was not a race between a "woman" and an "African-American", it was a race between a white woman and an African-American man.)

Then -- 30 minutes of being spoken to (or at) and the first presenter is a presumably white woman who is supposed to articulate to us listeners how Hillary Clinton's supporters feel?

We have 30 minutes to focus on LGBT issues and the first thing you want us listeners to do is focus on Hillary Clinton's supporters' feelings? Most of her supporters are heterosexual I would imagine.

I hung up when I heard that. I feel like this was an incredibly disrespectful way for Senator Obama's campaign to treat those of us who are his actual previous LGBT supporters. It was wrong to claim this would be about LGBT issues when it wasn't. It was wrong to not be clear. I used up some of my limited cell phone minutes on this. I don't have money to pay for extra minutes.

Such disrespect -- I really didn't expect this from the campaign. Please, next time be *truthful* about the focus of a conference call. If I had known what this was actually going to be about I would have been able to make an informed decision.

Now I wonder if the campaign is going to take its actual existing long-time LGBT supporters for granted. Because this was just plain wrong.

So. I am thinking about what Jack has said about how we need to see it from the Clinton supporters POV. And actually I have been able to do this all along -- I don't have the luxury of believing that how I see the world is the way, so I am often pretty aware of diverging and conflicting perspectives. The thing I don't have going is sympathy or empathy for these supporters.

If this had been billed as a conference call with a signficant focus on how Hillary Clinton's supporters feel, I would not have signed up, not have wasted cell phone minutes on hold and then listening to the first part. I'm not saying that such a conference call would be a bad thing to do -- just that I would not want to be part of it.

AND I find it incredibly disrespectful that it was billed as something about LGBT people then gets used as an excuse to focus yet again on how bad the upset white mostly hetero women feel. Now I didn't listen to what this woman said bc I hung up. So maybe she was going to focus on Hillary's LGBT supporters feelings, which has its own ugly implications IMO.

But I do know that the *majority* of these white-women-Clinton supporters who are upset are straight. Not only is there a distinctive hetero vibe to some of where they are coming from, not only is Hillary all about standing on her white hetero privilege, but simple math says it too: there are more hetero people than queer people.

I don't know what happened, if this was bad organizing, a result of weird Clinton-pushing political pressure, or if it reflects real disrespect in Senator Obama's campaign for existing LGBT supporters ... or what. Maybe I just don't understand something and this was to be expected and I was just unprepared.

This has actually kind of shaken me to the core, the lack of clarity and honesty about what the call was about. I never expected anything like this from the campaign. Whoa.

And truly, maybe I need to re-adjust my understanding of -- well, of something. Because this experience really rattled me.

Re: Friday Open Thread…..yeah, it’s Friday

texas girl in l.a. — Fri, 06 Jun 2008 16:50:00 -0000

Obama Launches Two-Week Tour On The Economy

"Change That Works For You"

First stop will be in Raleigh, NC

http://tpmelectioncentral.t...

Re: Friday Open Thread…..yeah, it’s Friday

Sepia — Fri, 06 Jun 2008 16:06:00 -0000

@ anon 9:32am:

You really can't pay too much attention to Dinesh D'Souza. Afterall, he did date Laura Ingraham-hocks and Ann Afghan Hound Coulter:

"Prior to his marriage in 1992, D'Souza had relationships with two well-known female conservatives, Laura Ingraham, a nationally-syndicated radio commentator to whom he was engaged but never married, and best-selling conservative author and commentator Ann Coulter.[8]"

Re: Friday Open Thread…..yeah, it’s Friday

Val — Fri, 06 Jun 2008 15:53:00 -0000

Apologies if anyone already posted. Interesting read:

http://www.huffingtonpost.c...

Excerpt:

They're mad as hell, and Hillary Clinton's supporters aren't going to take it anymore.

Some Clintonites are so mad about Barack Obama's Tuesday victory that they've launched a web site to build support to launch a lobbying group to support Republican John McCain.

"We're going to run campaign ads to defeat Obama," says Ed Hale, a 63-year-old rancher and a Clinton supporter from Wellington, Texas. "We have doctors, lawyers, CPAs, the blue bloods, and then we have rednecks like me. It's a very diversified organization."

The split illustrates the difficult task the Democratic party now faces in rallying the troops behind Obama. Open dissent within party ranks provides Republicans with openings to exploit.