Jack and Jill Politics - Latest Comments in Gergen Tells Hillary To Denounce Racist Vote. Too Late?

Re: Gergen Tells Hillary To Denounce Racist Vote. Too Late?

N. Mahana — Thu, 22 May 2008 11:15:00 -0000

You've really made me take another look at racists. You present such a "thoughtful" and "intelligent" argument for your case. You're a champion surrogate for your race.

With more people like you stating your case "change" will come sooner rather than later.

We need more people like you speaking up and speaking out. Please keep it the good work, say it loud, "you're white and you're proud!"

*smirks*

Next time have the courage to sign your name to your garbage.

Re: Gergen Tells Hillary To Denounce Racist Vote. Too Late?

Anonymous — Thu, 22 May 2008 09:55:00 -0000

U HIPPOCRITE NIG*** R SAYN HRC IS RECEIVING RACIST VOTES.WELL WHAT THE HELL DO YOU CALL OBAMAMAMA GETTN 95% OF BLKS VOTES, AND BLKS ARE ADMITTIN THAT?? THAT IS RACIST, MONOLITHIC VOTIN YOU NI***** ALWAYS DO, NEVER VOTE FOR WHAT A PERSON STANDS FOR, BUT WHAT COLOR THEY ARE. YOU MAKE ME SICK.YOU PPL PISS N MOAN ABOUT RACE WITH EVERYTHING AND DONT EVEN REALIZE YOU ARE HIPPOCRITES.NO WONDER MOST CANT MAKE IT IN THIS ONCE GREAT NATION. AND AS FOR THE ASIAN NOT GETTN IN AN IVY SCHOOL,SHE CAN BLAME THAT ON SOME NI**** THAT THEY HAD TO PUT THERE BECAUSE OF RACIAL QUOTAS FOR BLKS.BLAME WHITEY , BLAME WHITEY , BLAME WHITEY, THATS ALL U CAN DO.P.S,THERE IS SO MUCH SPIN ON THIS BLOG ITS NOT FUNNY.TYPICAL NI**** BEHAVIOR.TNB.

Re: Gergen Tells Hillary To Denounce Racist Vote. Too Late?

Hazelnut — Thu, 22 May 2008 07:32:00 -0000

What on earth is redlasso? Got a YouTube link, because the video doesn't work for me.

Re: Gergen Tells Hillary To Denounce Racist Vote. Too Late?

heartsandflowers — Wed, 21 May 2008 23:16:00 -0000

Cuz she's a BITCH!!!!!!

Re: Gergen Tells Hillary To Denounce Racist Vote. Too Late?

Nquest — Wed, 21 May 2008 19:57:00 -0000

_

"Fine. If you want to see them as victims..." {sniff, sniff}

More of that * IF * bs. Congrats! You just graduated from the school of "I still don't have an argument."

Can one be against affirmative action and can one believe that Obama is the 'affirmative action candidate' without being considered racist?

Game breaking time... List the options. What "can" people with those sentiments be AND make sure you explain why they are against affirmative action AND why the race-code their opposition to it. You know, in light of Webb's comments.

Yeah, that's right. Explain all that scapegoating sh*t. Explain why affirmative action has a BLACK eye - i.e. all mf's see is "black", NOT WHITE women (and white men in certain cases).

Explain why all the favoritism towards [WHITE] elites gets overlooked by this demographic. Explain the much more vocalized "antipathy" towards "people who don't look like them." Explain all that "he's a Muslim" sh*t.

Explain all that in a way that clearly shows how those race-coded views are held by non-racist.

The race-based, race-coded, racialized views are so obviously present (and openly stated) and your argument so blatantly bankrupt. Oh but list all the options. Tell us exactly why this demographic has issues with affirmative action and view Obama's candidacy as a form of it and do that while explaining the curious quietness about WHITE elites not making the grade AND, more importantly, how the wealth gap impacts them and they do exactly what Obama says they do "cling" to and get exploited by those single-issue themes antithetical to their economic interest.

And while you're explaining... Explain this:

"...15 percent of freshmen enrolled at America's highly selective colleges are white teens who failed to meet their institutions' minimum admissions standards."

quote from Peter Schmidt author of Color and Money: How Rich White Kids Are Winning the War over College Affirmative Actionz

Simply... WHERE IS THE OUTRAGE?? Where are the Appalachian brothers and sisters on that issue? And, frankly, I haven't heard them on this either:

A spokesman for the Department

of Education's Office for Civil Rights said it is investigating a

complaint filed by Jian Li, now a 17-year-old freshman at Yale

University. Despite racking up the maximum 2400 score on the SAT and

2390 -- 10 points below the ceiling -- on SAT2 subject tests in

physics, chemistry and calculus, Mr. Li was spurned by three Ivy

League universities, Stanford University and Massachusetts Institute of Technology.

The Office for Civil Rights initially rejected Mr. Li's complaint due to "insufficient" evidence. Mr. Li appealed, citing a white high-school classmate admitted to Princeton despite lower test scores and grades.

There's been concerns over Asian quotas for decades but, for some reason, our Appalachian brothers and sisters haven't made any noise about it AND no matter how WHITE women benefit from affirmative action... Well, just look at the irony. Geraldine Ferraro is making all this noise in support of her fellow white woman.

Geraldine Ferraro!!!

Re: Gergen Tells Hillary To Denounce Racist Vote. Too Late?

honey01 — Wed, 21 May 2008 19:30:00 -0000

@ craig, truth, certainly was the comment of the day.

S. seems really fixated on affirmative action. I am so sure this is the most pressing issue for these voters (and Pat "KKK" Buchannan"}.

Re: Gergen Tells Hillary To Denounce Racist Vote. Too Late?

Anonymous — Wed, 21 May 2008 19:18:00 -0000

I hope you don't mind but I posted a blog on daily kos and mydd regarding this and mentioned your site.
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/5/21/183921/509/704/519994

Re: Gergen Tells Hillary To Denounce Racist Vote. Too Late?

Craig Hickman — Wed, 21 May 2008 18:51:00 -0000

truthseeker, that was the post of the day.

Re: Gergen Tells Hillary To Denounce Racist Vote. Too Late?

Anonymous — Wed, 21 May 2008 18:43:00 -0000

Brazile's silence was deafening. I thought for a moment, after Gergen and Toobin spoke, that she was going to shout out, :f@##$% remaining neutral, I am declaring for Obama." Too bad she didn't.

Re: Gergen Tells Hillary To Denounce Racist Vote. Too Late?

TruthSeeker — Wed, 21 May 2008 18:32:00 -0000

s,

My, aren't you a snotty, condescending bastard; but, I mean that in a nice way. Lets NOT cut to the chase.

Dependency on the government, and 'needing things' from the government are not characteristics of these voters. You don't really understand this demographic.

..as if "needing things" is some kind of genetic anomaly like an 11th finger. Government is the community. We ALL need the support of the community to varying degrees. What makes you think YOU understand that demographic? Are you suggesting they couldn't possibly have anything in common with a black person.

Condescendingly hoping to placate them with minimum wage increases and insulting their service to their country by implying it is only a means by which to go to college is all part and parcel of the same 'elitist' attitude which caused Obama to make his 'Bittergate' statements.

You psychotic, predatory prick. To suggest that raising wages is insulting to the poor. As if offering college education is condescending. You elitist, self-seving sissy.

Re: Gergen Tells Hillary To Denounce Racist Vote. Too Late?

Wed, 21 May 2008 18:27:00 -0000

Clearly, there are voters who are as you say 'ill-informed.' The question is, do the dems want them in the party? Can Obama appeal to them 'in time'?

Is this Webb's audition for VP? If his argument is deemed valid and his assertion that Obama can keep these voters from switching to McCain is accepted as credible, is he not the logical choice?

Will the party, 'cut the racists loose' or 'cut the ill-informed, anti-affirmative action voters some slack'?

Obama/Webb '08?

The principal value of a veep candidate, it seems to me, is that he shores up the weaknesses of whoever heads the ticket. In Obama’s case the candidate to do that most spectacularly is his Virginia Senate colleague, Jim Webb. Is Obama considered too dovish? Jim Webb was Reagan’s Secretary of the Navy and before that he fought in Vietnam. Are white workers the largest part of the Democratic coalition still suspicious of his bona fides? Jim Webb is the nearest thing in the Senate (and in today’s Democrat party) to the voice of America’s clue collar class. Has Jeremiah Wright put a question mark over Obama’s patriotism? Webb is the main upholder of the Jacksonian tradition in U.S. politics. He’s even written a history of the Scotch-Irish in America—that’s about as politically incorrect as you can get. In short Webb appeals to many of the blue-collar Reagan Democrats who would otherwise be bowled over by McCain who himself doesn’t need to sound patriotic since he’s the embodiment of patriotism.

What do you think? Or will HRO supporters demand a woman as VP?

Re: Gergen Tells Hillary To Denounce Racist Vote. Too Late?

Against Race Politics — Wed, 21 May 2008 18:07:00 -0000

One more ting S,

If "one thinks Obama is an Affirmative action candidate" they don't have to be racist but they sure are ill-informed!!! I won't even get into how ..hmm I'm trying to be nice here. Oh forget it, I can't do it w/o being nice so I will just say if this - if anyone thinks BHO magically propelled to the Democratic Presidential Nominee via his African American heritage ...nevermind I can't do it! Not today!

Re: Gergen Tells Hillary To Denounce Racist Vote. Too Late?

Against Race Politics — Wed, 21 May 2008 18:01:00 -0000

S,

I haven't heard Webb's comments yet but whatever they are I don't think the comments are revelant with the self described racist -people that said RACE was a factor and voted for HRC rather AGAINST BHO because of RACE only. ("Uhm I just can't for'em. I don't agree with'em" and can't explain why!!)Whatever they feel about affirmative action (right or wrong) is irrelevant in this particular case.

S,

Are you picking on me b/c I'm a girl?! LOL!

Re: Gergen Tells Hillary To Denounce Racist Vote. Too Late?

Ms.Martin — Wed, 21 May 2008 17:12:00 -0000

S

You are sorely mistaken if you think I see them as victims.

The mere fact that they are white gives them an advantage that doesn't even come close to Affirmative Action. They just haven taken advantage of it.

Re: Gergen Tells Hillary To Denounce Racist Vote. Too Late?

Wed, 21 May 2008 17:07:00 -0000

ms martin,

Fine. If you want to see them as victims, that's what the dem party does best. Identifying and labeling voters by race, gender and class in order to offer them a piece of government pie, fostering dependency on government and keeping them asking for more.

Is Affirmative Action reform on the horizon?

Re: Gergen Tells Hillary To Denounce Racist Vote. Too Late?

Ms.Martin — Wed, 21 May 2008 16:55:00 -0000

S

You seem to want to a. modify Webb's statemenet and, b.speak for the entire Appalachian population.

Sounds to me like he's saying they have an issue with Affirmative Action because they are the "only" group who hasn't benefitted from it.

I don't need to understand this demographic, Webb however is claiming them as his own and spoke on their behalf and equated them as the tortured sibilings to African Americans, meaning they are poor and overlooked. Didn't he quote them as saying something about being white and poor and forgotten?

Re: Gergen Tells Hillary To Denounce Racist Vote. Too Late?

Wed, 21 May 2008 16:46:00 -0000

ms martin,

Dependency on the government, and 'needing things' from the government are not characteristics of these voters. You don't really understand this demographic.

Condescendingly hoping to placate them with minimum wage increases and insulting their service to their country by implying it is only a means by which to go to college is all part and parcel of the same 'elitist' attitude which caused Obama to make his 'Bittergate' statements.

Let's cut to the chase here. Webb is saying that these voters take issue with Affirmative Action.

How can Obama appeal to these voters 'in time', as Webb asserts, when so many of his supporters are so willing to label them racist?

Re: Gergen Tells Hillary To Denounce Racist Vote. Too Late?

TruthSeeker — Wed, 21 May 2008 16:41:00 -0000

Ms.martin,

the silence is a sure sign a truth is being told. Clinton surrogates always get quiet when someone mentions Hillary not getting the black vote.

s,

Always trying to put a positive spin on your loser candidate, eh. McFlake is trying to court the black vote....gosh, Repubs are out of touch! They really believe there is anything they can say to mitigate Katrina, gas prices, the economy???

Face it, while you guys were plotting and spinning, time was busy passing you by! You cannot hold back the future.

Re: Gergen Tells Hillary To Denounce Racist Vote. Too Late?

Big Man — Wed, 21 May 2008 16:32:00 -0000

S

If you're against affirmative action because you think black people are getting a free ride and you're against Obama because you think he's getting the same free ride then you're a racist.

Period.

Neither of those points are based in fact and instead are based on white people's willingness to ignore facts to make themselves feel better. The assistance black people received from the government was meager, anybody who doesn't see that is unwilling to deal with reality.

Re: Gergen Tells Hillary To Denounce Racist Vote. Too Late?

andyfrombrooklyn — Wed, 21 May 2008 16:20:00 -0000

it is a good sign that gergen is moved to say something. he is well respected at foggy bottom. so he influences thinking there. tanya harding is making it clear that she is not going to go gracefully. people like gergen are going to be important in getting her off the stage with as little damage as possible.

Re: Gergen Tells Hillary To Denounce Racist Vote. Too Late?

Wed, 21 May 2008 16:14:00 -0000

Race against politics,

In light of Jim Webb's comments, and those white dem voters who take issue with affirmative action, and who may have, in exit polls answered that race was a factor in their vote, are you still willing to label them 'actual racists'?

Can one be against affirmative action and can one believe that Obama is the 'affirmative action candidate' without being considered racist?

Re: Gergen Tells Hillary To Denounce Racist Vote. Too Late?

Ms.Martin — Wed, 21 May 2008 16:06:00 -0000

S

These voters may be of the same Scottish Irish descent as Mccain, but I don't think they'll forget that he's voted against legislation to increase the minimum wage 9 times.

Nor will they forget his position on the GI Bill.

Re: Gergen Tells Hillary To Denounce Racist Vote. Too Late?

Ms.Martin — Wed, 21 May 2008 16:01:00 -0000

Truthseeker

I watched the clip of Webb and thought it interesting that Pat Buchanan was quite when Webb said that the Appalachians and African Americans need the same things from the government.

Re: Gergen Tells Hillary To Denounce Racist Vote. Too Late?

Wed, 21 May 2008 15:59:00 -0000

Webb is auditioning for VP here.

He may be to something here as was Obama in his race speech, when claiming to understand and validate white grievances towards affirmative action, etc. But now, these same voters are being labeled as racist and discarded by the party. Their ideological dispute with 'government assisted afforded to minorities' is being labeled as racism.

Webb says that Obama's message will appeal to these white voters 'in time' but is that really true? Will Obama come out against affirmative action? If not, will he soften his position? Is this 'cultural divide' too big for him to bridge when Obama supporters are willing to toss them to McCain?

It's a smaller 'leap of faith' from center left to center right, than to far left, where many of these voters perceive Obama to be.

And McCain is of Scotch-Irish descent.

Re: Gergen Tells Hillary To Denounce Racist Vote. Too Late?

TruthSeeker — Wed, 21 May 2008 15:33:00 -0000

No open thread....sorry

An article on Huffington re Jim Webb. He attempts to explain Appalachia...Morning Joe clip.

Jim Webb Speaks Out On Race, Addresses Grievances Of White America

Webb sought to explain what motivates Scotch-Irish Americans. First, says Webb, it's not a generic race or geographic label, but rather "a very powerful cultural group that's always underestimated, and it's not always in the Appalachian mountains." And the issue is not Obama himself, who Webb thinks is "saying a lot of good things that will appeal to this cultural group in time."

Rather, Webb -- whose previous book Born Fighting explores the effect of Scotch-Irish culture on America's formation -- argued that Scotch-Irish voters' unwillingness to support Obama is less about the candidate himself, than about a sense of injustice among the community manifested by the government assistance afforded to minorities in the post-Civil Rights Era: