Jack and Jill Politics - Latest Comments in Hillary " Deranged Narcissist" Clinton Concession Speech Open Thread

Re: Hillary " Deranged Narcissist" Clinton Concession Speech Open Thread

Plantsmantx — Sun, 08 Jun 2008 14:37:00 -0000

You could ask the same question about Clinton, given her published positions. When compared to Clinton, is McClain such an unacceptable choice to these people? If so, why did so many of those moderate Dems only begin considering McCain's acceptability when it began to look as if Clinton was going to lose?

Re: Hillary " Deranged Narcissist" Clinton Concession Speech Open Thread

Sun, 08 Jun 2008 09:41:00 -0000

What about dems who consider themselves to be moderate? Socially center-left, fiscally conservative and strong on national defense, strong supporters of Israel? DLC supporters and those who voted for the Blue Dog Democrats?

Is there room for moderates in the Daily Kos/moveon/code pink party?

Not if you listen to the far-left wing of the party who think they own the party lock, stock and barrel, and who will kick out members of their own party who do not tow their line.

Joe Leiberman was handed his hat and kicked out the door by anti-war activists. Do you think he is alone in his thinking and positions on the war and foreign policy? Now he has announced the creation of "Citizens for McCain," hoping bring moderates to McCain.

Women who voted for Hillary primarily to advance the feminist cause, will vote Obama.

But what about moderate Democrats?

When compared to Obama, is McCain such an unacceptable choice?

Re: Hillary " Deranged Narcissist" Clinton Concession Speech Open Thread

B-Serious — Sun, 08 Jun 2008 07:45:00 -0000

This is Obama's party now. As such, it is Obama's responsibility to demonstrate strength and focus leading up to and through the general election.

Obama needs to make it clear that he will not be forced to do anything against his will. He's calling the shots now.

He will pick whomever he chooses to be his veep. And, yes, that includes the possibility of picking someone like Gov. Sebelius if he wants. This idea that Hillary's the ONLY woman he can choose is rediculous. Gender has nothing to do with why Obama probably won't pick Hillary. It has everything to do with chemistry and TRUST. . . two traits that he could surely find in another woman who is qualified for the job.

Rachel Maddow had a really good point the other day. She actually thinks that these "angry Clinton supporters" are a lot smaller in number than people think. She thinks that number will shrink dramatically in the coming months. Let's not forget that Obama got over 18 million votes as well. And I'm willing to bet that at least 60% of all Clinton supporter will have no problem backing Obama in the fall. That 60% will increase dramatically over the next few months. The world is bigger than the Harriet Christians of the world. Obama shouldn't waste much time on people like her. . . extend the olive branch; cut your losses and move forward.

Again, this is OBAMA's party now. Think about it. All of those surrogates and Democratic pundits will have no choice but to pivot to the general election to attack McCain and DEFEND Obama. To the victor go the spoils.

This is not about Hillary anymore. And her former surrogates will have a VERY difficult time justifying anything less than the utmost respect and support for their party's nominee, Senator Obama.

Likewise, Hillary will have a lot of explaining to do once the Republicans start using her words against Obama (in fact they've already started). So when the Republicans use the "Commander in Chief" test or 3:00AM ad, guess where all eyes are gonna turn??? That's right. . . they're gonna turn right towards Senator Clinton. She's gonna have to eat a lot of crow this summer. Her political future depends on it.

Finally, I think it'd be a big mistake if Obama made a major speech on gender/sexism. Hillary started talking about sexism in late May when it was clear that she was gonna lose. It was one of her many attempts to deligitimize Obama's victory. A major speech on sexism would basically concede the point . . . "Hillary lost because of sexism" which is the same as saying, "I only won because of sexism" which is the same as saying, "My victory is not legitimate."

I hate to give the following guy credit, but he's right on this one point: Dick Morris always says that the one thing a president has is the ability to set the news cycle. As far as I see it, that same privilege extends to the party nominees. From here on out, Obama (not Clinton) sets the news cycle. . .he sets the direction for the party.

This is on Obama now. He needs to send the talking point that this was a fair process. He needs to make sure that his surrogates (including former Clinton surrogates) exonerate him from any anger her supporters had against the media.

That's ALL surrogates, whether they're long time Obama supporters like Claire McCaskill or former Clinton supporters like Ed Rendell. As of yesterday, they ALL became Obama surrogates. He needs to use them accordingly.

Re: Hillary " Deranged Narcissist" Clinton Concession Speech Open Thread

Michelle — Sun, 08 Jun 2008 04:02:00 -0000

re: the NYT article mentioned by truthseeker:

The 350,000 e-mail messages that Mrs. Clinton received after soliciting supporters on Tuesday include “an overwhelming chorus of ‘We want you to continue to be our leader,’ ” said Ann Lewis, a Clinton adviser.

Well, that "overwhelming chorus" there just might be based on the fact that the emails were from a form on her site that itself forced anyone signing to say they stand by Ms. Hillary.

After seeing a comment somewhere that that was just a way to try to get more money, I signed on with a bogus email stating my real perspective, even if the form didn't allow me to actually speak it. I did this bc wanted to see if it was true that the form led right to the give money page. It did.

Another thing about that form. It only required email address and zip code. It had fields for names but these were not required.

It didn't care if people gave names. Didn't require it. All it required was email addresses and zip codes to mine for future $ asks.

IMO that whole thing was a big scam and the numbers don't mean s*** as far as I'm concerned. I would take this with a grain of salt. Someone needs to VET this claim.

Also: this? The key, Ms. McCaskill said, is approaching Mrs. Clinton’s supporters with utmost humility.

IMO, they want deference. That is what Black people are supposed to give. Maybe they will prove me wrong on this.

PS No seriously this new DSL thing we have here in my house is fast!

Re: Hillary " Deranged Narcissist" Clinton Concession Speech Open Thread

heartsandflowers — Sun, 08 Jun 2008 02:11:00 -0000

She gave a speech blah blah blah. I didn't listen to it either though maybe I will in a few days. I knew no apology or admission of below the belt antics or of smearing Obama was forthcoming. I wonder though for the average Clinton voter who didn't want their vote back, if they feel used in some way? They think it's disappointment but after all the chaos, anger and frenzy only to be told to support the nominee wouldn't a normal person feel kinda cheated? You were just a pawn, just a number to be used as leverage for giving out earmarks and no bid contracts and shady business deals. And no I don't feel that way about Obama because he always talks about working hard and doing things together whereas with Clinton it all depended on her benevolence.

Re: Hillary " Deranged Narcissist" Clinton Concession Speech Open Thread

TruthSeeker — Sun, 08 Jun 2008 01:42:00 -0000

karrie,

what makes you think we are NOT focused on winning in November? I assure you, it is entirely possible to think along two lines at the same time.

Re: Hillary " Deranged Narcissist" Clinton Concession Speech Open Thread

Karrie — Sun, 08 Jun 2008 00:21:00 -0000

Hillary's speech was very gracious IMHO. But quite frankly, can we move on? I'm sure people will keep their grudges against her, which is fine. But damn, can we concern ourselves with November? Can we focus on how Obama is supposed to win? Sorry if i sound bitter or angry, but this is becoming monotonous and ridiculous.

Re: Hillary " Deranged Narcissist" Clinton Concession Speech Open Thread

TruthSeeker — Sat, 07 Jun 2008 23:28:00 -0000

How depressing:

Clinton Bloc Becomes the Prize for Election Day

Even the Democratic National Committee chairman is avidly trying to make up for accusations that he allowed sexism in the race to pass unchallenged.

“The wounds of sexism need to be the subject of a national discussion,” the chairman, Howard Dean, said in an interview. “Many of the most prominent people on TV behaved like middle schoolers” toward Mrs. Clinton.

...

The 350,000 e-mail messages that Mrs. Clinton received after soliciting supporters on Tuesday include “an overwhelming chorus of ‘We want you to continue to be our leader,’ ” said Ann Lewis, a Clinton adviser.

...

A classic stage of grief is bargaining, and just as Mrs. Clinton has surely been thinking about what she wants to extract from her run, her supporters have been making their own wish lists. The most popular item, with many online petition signatures behind it, is a spot on Mr. Obama’s ticket.

If he does not offer the vice-presidential position to Mrs. Clinton, “I’m going to be really angry,” said Alida Black, another longtime Clinton supporter.

“Hillary is not interchangeable,” Ms. Black added, warning Mr. Obama not to select, say, Gov. Kathleen Sebelius of Kansas as a gesture to please women.

Former Gov. Madeleine M. Kunin of Vermont suggested in an interview that Mr. Obama promise to appoint women to half his cabinet positions.

Ms. Steinem advised that Mr. Obama deliver the same sort of ambitious speech about sex that he did on race. An aide said the campaign was considering such an address.

Jenny Backus, a Democratic consultant unaffiliated with either campaign, wondered whether Mr. Obama might give Chelsea Clinton a prominent role in his efforts.

...

He has belatedly recognized the cries of sexism, Mr. Dean said, particularly when a friend showed him a video compilation of broadcasters’ comments about Mrs. Clinton.

“We all get over it when our candidates don’t win,” he said. “What you don’t get over is feeling like you’ve been insulted by some of the leading institutions in America and no one said anything about it.

Re: Hillary " Deranged Narcissist" Clinton Concession Speech Open Thread

rikyrah — Sat, 07 Jun 2008 23:20:00 -0000

Lisa Caputo is on CNN subtlety undermining O. No, she doesn't have 18 million votes, Lisa.

No Lisa, he should NOT deploy her among Latino's, white working class and women voters! I can't see how obama could utilize her to any great degree without undermining his own run.

Caputo probably wasn't offered a job at Camp Obama.....

Re: Hillary " Deranged Narcissist" Clinton Concession Speech Open Thread

Michelle — Sat, 07 Jun 2008 23:11:00 -0000

Sounds like Barack's speech writers wrote some of that speech.

Craig, I noticed that too!

Re: Hillary " Deranged Narcissist" Clinton Concession Speech Open Thread

babyming — Sat, 07 Jun 2008 22:28:00 -0000

To me, Hillary Clinton is like George W. Bush: there's nothing you want from them except for them to go away.

It's not like they can never do anything good, it's just that it's time for new people to have their turn.

Re: Hillary " Deranged Narcissist" Clinton Concession Speech Open Thread

B-Serious — Sat, 07 Jun 2008 19:53:00 -0000

teacher,

RE: anti-unity rants. . .

Talk about an alternate reality. Those arguments aren't based in any sense of logic or truth. They're just saying whatever helps them sleep at night.

You can't save some people. Sometimes you gotta let go and let God.

Just take comfort in the fact that we won and they lost. They can lie all they want, but we can't waste time on the Harriet Christians of the world. Although I keep a watchful eye, I refuse to let them waste my time.

I don't doubt that some are truly disappointed and just need time to vent before they come back to their senses. I'm cool with that.

But, at the same time, don't be fooled. You got a lot of haters out there. Don't feed the trolls.

At this point, their only hope is to do everything they can to try and steal your joy. That's all they got left. Don't let them do it. This is history in the making. The victory is sweet and well-earned. Savor the moment and get ready for the general election.

As for the haters???

Go and brush yo' shoulders off!

Re: Hillary " Deranged Narcissist" Clinton Concession Speech Open Thread

Anonymous — Sat, 07 Jun 2008 19:42:00 -0000

Well, she did what she had to do in public to remain viable for 2012 in the Democratic Party. Whether or not the truck with all of the Clintons’ opposition research against Obama somehow breaks down in front of the RNC headquarters between now and Labor Day remains to be seen.

Re: Hillary " Deranged Narcissist" Clinton Concession Speech Open Thread

teacher — Sat, 07 Jun 2008 19:14:00 -0000

Some are discussing unity and some aren't. At the link below they are saying this:

"The Democratic Party is divided because the people in charge played fast and loose with the rules, disenfranchising voters in 2 states, discounting the desires of whole segments of the population in favor of the AA and youth vote, and allowing the sexism Hillary encountered to go unchecked.

I will not be voting for Democrats in November except for my Congresswoman, Stephanie Tubbs Jones, who stood with Hillary throughout the campaign.

Thank you, Ms. Tubbs Jones."

And this:

"Take Obama for instance: With everything that has gone on in this campaign, the cheating, manipulation, deception, intimidation, data mining and backroom dealings, is there any thinking person who thinks Obama will be changing the Bush administration? The only change is that this anointed candidate is black which to many is the extent of “CHANGE”. For those who really are not racist enough to look at a person as a human being, Obama is not the answer to our country’s problems.

Then my next question is, how can so-called leaders force him down our throats? Is it because Hillary is Real Change and she has promised to examine/review all govt. contracts, no-bid contracts and everything financial connected with the Iraq war? Is this what really scared the invisible powers running our country? The same ones who control the banks, the insurance companies, the oil consortiums, AND the media?

And so they create this cultist personality and keep people from really thinking, so that they would applaud someone with their votes ala choosing a winner in “Dancing with the Stars” or American Idol?

Not only is the democratic party divided; the whole country has been divided into factions. Hillary has been backed into a corner and pressured into throwing her support behind Obama. But if others like me have sent letters to her campaign, she also knows that our support is non-transferable."

These are some crazy, racist MFers. They defected from DailyKos-thank goodness. Cause if they didn't I wouldn't be able to read their stuff. It's weird.

http://riverdaughter.wordpress.com/2008/06/07/why-is-the-party-divided/#comments

Re: Hillary " Deranged Narcissist" Clinton Concession Speech Open Thread

andyfrombrooklyn — Sat, 07 Jun 2008 18:52:00 -0000

good riddance to the hillary shils like lisa caputo! find something else to talk about now. because after this weekend, hillary is gone from the news cycle....sweeeet!!!

Re: Hillary " Deranged Narcissist" Clinton Concession Speech Open Thread

andyfrombrooklyn — Sat, 07 Jun 2008 18:50:00 -0000

and one more thing obama did masterfully... patiently talked the psycho into the ambulance. what a patient and deliberate man he is!

Re: Hillary " Deranged Narcissist" Clinton Concession Speech Open Thread

andyfrombrooklyn — Sat, 07 Jun 2008 18:47:00 -0000

is hillary gone now? ....good riddance!

Re: Hillary " Deranged Narcissist" Clinton Concession Speech Open Thread

TruthSeeker — Sat, 07 Jun 2008 18:20:00 -0000

Re: Hillary " Deranged Narcissist" Clinton Concession Speech Open Thread

rikyrah — Sat, 07 Jun 2008 17:49:00 -0000

Since I didn't watch it, I want to thank JJP for giving me a snapshot of it. It's over and done and good riddance to Hillpatine.

Re: Hillary " Deranged Narcissist" Clinton Concession Speech Open Thread

rikyrah — Sat, 07 Jun 2008 17:48:00 -0000

If anyone has "real power" in this situation, it's Charlie Rangel who told Hillary to sit that ass down and she said "Ofay." Everybody else, Pelosi, Dean, Reid, her own top insiders told her to sit down and she said "whatever" and kept going. Rangel told her "Sit Hillary Sit" and Hillary sat that ass right on down.

Town,

You have been cracking me up.

Re: Hillary " Deranged Narcissist" Clinton Concession Speech Open Thread

TruthSeeker — Sat, 07 Jun 2008 17:38:00 -0000

I can't deny Peggy has a gift for words....and summing things up.

Re: Hillary " Deranged Narcissist" Clinton Concession Speech Open Thread

BigAssBelle — Sat, 07 Jun 2008 17:29:00 -0000

i thought the speech was a good one.

but please, lefties, liberals, democrats, socialists, ALL OF US: please let's not quote the right wing tools to make our case?

clinton did it when she was quoting Fox, when she threw out Karl Rove's analysis of her chances. i've seen peggy "i licked reagan's boots and loved it" noonan quoted on virtually every leftie blog out there.

why?? screw peggy noonan. she never met a democrat she liked, ever. if she's saying seemingly appropriate things now, just wait.

we need to shut these people out, all of these right wing mouthpieces, all of these liars who carry water for the people who don't care if their policies destroy the rest of us.

peggy noonan is scrambling. in her pathetic little mind, she has been on the side of the winners since 1980 and before. for us to have come to the state we're in politically (and in every other way) in this country means that she and her right wing gasbag pals will be LEFT OUT.

let's start now. LEAVE THEM OUT. they have nothing of value to contribute to ANY discussion of what needs to happen in this country. people like her and the politicians she kowtows to have nearly destroyed us. we can't lock them all up, but we certainly don't need to validate them as they now seek to curry favor with the democratic party they have reviled for decades.

before anyone says forgive and forget, get over it: no. no thank you. these people have worked hard to destroy the nation i love and they have nearly wrecked the world. they have blood on their hands and if they had any conscience at all they'd be volunteering to stand before a war crimes tribunal. please don't legitimize their twisted world view by quoting them.

okay. thanks for letting me rant.

Re: Hillary " Deranged Narcissist" Clinton Concession Speech Open Thread

Admiral Komack — Sat, 07 Jun 2008 17:18:00 -0000

Hillary had name recognition, a campaign warchest, an asset of a former President of the United States, and a crack campaign staff.

AND SHE LOST.

Hell, with all all this going for her, I'm not surprised she'd whine about sexism; better that than focus on her incompetence.

Re: Hillary " Deranged Narcissist" Clinton Concession Speech Open Thread

Admiral Komack — Sat, 07 Jun 2008 17:02:00 -0000

"I'm sure all of you anti-Clinton bloggers are under 30 and have no real clue what "true power" is and how that translates politically."

-Hillary certainly didn't: Obama won.

Re: Hillary " Deranged Narcissist" Clinton Concession Speech Open Thread

kathy — Sat, 07 Jun 2008 16:49:00 -0000

I read the Peggy Noonan article today in the Wall Street Journal.
I haven't seen Hill's speech, but I noticed that all the pictures are of her. She tried to steal the moment if you ask me.

One thing that people might be forgetting about is that Obama has support from a lot of people who might normally vote Republican or Independant. Hillary's implication that Obama can't win without her doesn't take into account all the people from the other two parties that voted for Obama.