Jack and Jill Politics - Latest Comments in How Obama Won: The Past Helps The Present

Re: How Obama Won: The Past Helps The Present

jelana — Sun, 08 Jun 2008 03:59:00 -0000

rikyrah,

Obama outwits then at every turn!

He is quite amazing! A MONSTER, but a GOOD MONSTER!

Re: How Obama Won: The Past Helps The Present

rikyrah — Sun, 08 Jun 2008 00:34:00 -0000

With Rev Wright they tried to force Obama to leave his church and pastor because they knew Black people NEVER denounce their church. They thought Black anger over him denouncing his pastor would bring us back into the fold.

I agree with your entire statement, jelana, but I wanted to comment on this.

I believe that they thought Obama WOULD cut Wright at the beginning. But, Obama didn't. Obama didn't disown Wright after he had been unfairly smeared through the Youtube Loop. And, when he didn't do that, Black folk stuck by him. But, i agree with you completely that they believed Obama would cut him in Philly, and thus, come running back to Hillpatine. When he didn't, they were shocked.

Obama outwitted them with that Philadelphia Speech.

Re: How Obama Won: The Past Helps The Present

jelana — Sat, 07 Jun 2008 10:10:00 -0000

ms martin,

I see it a little differently.

Yes, they did start the race baiting before SC. I believe she had a near death experience after Iowa and panicked. When she made the statements about LBJ and MLK, she was making a crack on Obama's experience as a community activist and lack of experience to be POTUS. She & Bill just knew they had the Black Vote locked up. They had no idea we would react in the way we did. Same thing in SC. They appealed to the white vote, still thinking they had us in their pocket. They felt the only way they could beat him was to call out the racist white vote. With Rev Wright they tried to force Obama to leave his church and pastor because they knew Black people NEVER denounce their church. They thought Black anger over him denouncing his pastor would bring us back into the fold. After they realized we had left in large numbers they just went whole hog for the white vote, latino vote because they then had no other choice. Don't get me wrong, I am definitely not defending them. You don't play the race card unless racism is part of your belief system in the first place. It is almost impossible to beat someone who espouses a positive message without going negative. They not only underestimated Obama, they underestimated Black loyalty to them as well.

Re: How Obama Won: The Past Helps The Present

Ms.Martin — Sat, 07 Jun 2008 03:24:00 -0000

Because, she was offended. She was offended that Black folk would actually think for themselves and CHOOSE someone other than her.

Didn't she make the statements regarding it taking a president to pass civil rights legislation before the SC primary? Was there a large black vote before then? Was it the polling that showed she was going to lose.

I ask these questions because it seems to me she race-baited prior to SC. If so, why would she do that before a large black vote unless she indeed wanted to turn that constituency against her early so she could then appeal to the us against them mentality of the voters who later voted. It seems to me she wanted to alienate us early so she could call on hispanics and ethnic voters who would support her because she is white. What better way to do that than start a fight with the AA community. You may not agree with me, but I think it was her intention for things to turn out just the way they did as far as the AA community it just didn't work out quite she planned because he was working hard in the background.

Re: How Obama Won: The Past Helps The Present

jelana — Fri, 06 Jun 2008 23:14:00 -0000

Thanks Again Rikyrah,

Now I understand why Clinton supporters started talking about

changing the rules and why she kept

saying if this was a Republican

primary she would be the winner.

We need to make sure this NEVER gets

changed!

Re: How Obama Won: The Past Helps The Present

rikyrah — Fri, 06 Jun 2008 23:11:00 -0000

I realize that Hillary would have carried a portion of the black vote had she not played the race game. And why did she? Ask yourself that.

Because, she was offended. She was offended that Black folk would actually think for themselves and CHOOSE someone other than her.

I personally did not need white people to convince me that Obama deserved my vote, I was with him from the very beginning and I'm black.

Me too.

I initially respected Hillary Clinton but I didn't feel a debt of gratitude to her or her husband nor a sense of loyalty that guaranteed her my vote.

Never really respected her, because I was bothered enormously by the sense of entitlement that reeked from her. Because she let that man humiliate her, she was entitled to become President of the United States....I don't think so.

There were blacks folks who voted for him precisely because of who he is and not because of what Hillary did.

That's true. I agree with that, but I do believe the solidification happened because of the racebaiting. I think he got to 70% because Black folk were convinced he actually had a chance.

I think going from 70-90% was Hillpatine's racebaiting.

Further, if they initially supported Hillary because they thought she was the more viable candidate, then when they turned to Obama it was about race and many have said that they didn't vote for him because of his race.

They turned post Iowa and NH, when Obama proved to be VIABLE. VIABLE and Black count way more than just BLACK, because remember what happened to Al Sharpton and Carol Moseley Braun.

You can't have it both ways, which was it?

I hope I explained it.

Re: How Obama Won: The Past Helps The Present

TruthSeeker — Fri, 06 Jun 2008 21:28:00 -0000

I neglected to tell you also, Rikyrah, This was a fantastic post! Thanks for enlightening me.

Re: How Obama Won: The Past Helps The Present

Ms.Martin — Fri, 06 Jun 2008 21:05:00 -0000

I realize that Hillary would have carried a portion of the black vote had she not played the race game. And why did she? Ask yourself that.

I personally did not need white people to convince me that Obama deserved my vote, I was with him from the very beginning and I'm black.

I initially respected Hillary Clinton but I didn't feel a debt of gratitude to her or her husband nor a sense of loyalty that guaranteed her my vote.

There were blacks folks who voted for him precisely because of who he is and not because of what Hillary did.

Further, if they initially supported Hillary because they thought she was the more viable candidate, then when they turned to Obama it was about race and many have said that they didn't vote for him because of his race.

You can't have it both ways, which was it?

Re: How Obama Won: The Past Helps The Present

Brown Man — Fri, 06 Jun 2008 20:30:00 -0000

I didn't know about Rule 13B - will be doing some research - THIS IS WHY I HATE THE FUCKING NEWS - how come they couldn't have given this fact 15 minutes?

Did I really need to see Rev Wright for 6 weeks?

Thanks, Jack & Jill.

Re: How Obama Won: The Past Helps The Present

justice58 — Fri, 06 Jun 2008 14:09:00 -0000

Charlie Rangel To Hillary:

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0608/10886_Page2.html

"Rangel then stepped in. Repeating his public comments from earlier in the afternoon, he stressed the need for party unity and expressed concern that New York Reps. Yvette Clarke, Gregory Meeks, and Edolphus Towns — whose heavily black districts had voted for Obama — could face viable primary challenges from pro-Obama candidates if they didn't move quickly to get behind the presumptive nominee".

-----------------------------------

Hmmmm... Clark, Meeks, Towns must be a bit scared!

Re: How Obama Won: The Past Helps The Present

Danielle — Fri, 06 Jun 2008 11:36:00 -0000

Good post, but I will also add that there would be no Barack Obama or Jessie Jackson without Sister Shirley Chisholm from Brooklyn who ran for President in 72. Talk about Audacity Of Hope!

Re: How Obama Won: The Past Helps The Present

rikyrah — Fri, 06 Jun 2008 10:20:00 -0000

She said, "No, I really think black people would have given all their votes to Obama, because it's a pride thing."

I told her even Republicans get more black support than what Hillary was getting by the time of NC. I told her I felt the majority of black people would have voted for Obama out of a sense of pride, but he wouldn't have been getting 92% of it. And I told her that many black people were voting AGAINST Hillary and her tricks b/c she and her campaign were out of control with the racebaiting, and really, it was unnecessary. Hillary threw the black vote away and if she hadn't, she would have been the nominee, not Obama.

When this first began, dnA, over at Too Sense wrote several warning posts. He was like, ' I hope this isn't where Camp Clinton is going, because it will only mean that Obama will wind up with OJ-like solidarity'.

I won't forget that quote, because I thought it was on point. Field Negro wrote about it too.

This is going to hurt her more than you might think

He's Black! He's a Muslim!

Some Advice from The Field

ALL of these were from December 2007. They were sounding the alarm, and quite accurately predicted the outcome of Camp Hillpatine continuing to blow the Dogwhistle.

Re: How Obama Won: The Past Helps The Present

tvanel — Fri, 06 Jun 2008 10:07:00 -0000

Rikyrah-

That proportional system was negotiated by Jesse himself:

Superdelegates Should Not Decide the Nominee

In 1988, Dukkakis led in pledged delegates and Rev. Jesse Jackson had accumulated roughly one thousand delegates from the primaries. Prior to ceding the nomination, he brokered a deal called Rule 13B that allowed delegates to be proportionately awarded whenever a candidate obtained at least 15% of the vote, going forward.

Without rule 13B, Hillary wins.

Re: How Obama Won: The Past Helps The Present

rikyrah — Fri, 06 Jun 2008 10:05:00 -0000

town,

it was fine to me. I read it all..LOL

Re: How Obama Won: The Past Helps The Present

Town — Fri, 06 Jun 2008 09:39:00 -0000

Sorry for that extra long cut and paste, don't know how that happened.

Re: How Obama Won: The Past Helps The Present

Town — Fri, 06 Jun 2008 09:38:00 -0000

6 CommentsClose this window Jump to comment form
Ms.Martin said...

Amen rikyrah and Andrew Sullivan said it best.

As I've said before change will involve a lot of the black politicians who were willing to turn a deaf ear to the demeaning of their own race by the Clintons.

I took this very personally and I will never forget what they've done. EVER.

Thu Jun 05, 11:27:00 PM 2008

jelana said...

Ditto ms martin.

It was extremely personal for me also. I was so upset with Hillary's speech and her demands that I have only tonight been able to celebrate this historical event!

rikyrah

Thanks for the information about the loyal democrats. I had no idea that it worked this way. Thank God for Jesse Jackson too. We FINALLY actually count for something!

Fri Jun 06, 01:29:00 AM 2008

heartsandflowers said...

Yup! If we have anything to learn from this primary is how much we need to learn about exercising and wielding power. We need to learn the game, the rules, know the players, the real power brokers and what we want. Anyone who is concerned about Obama not addressing 'Black' issues would do well to note how we delivered the nomination to him, but we didn't ask for anything in return. This is wonderful symbolism but it needs to more than integration. We need to be equal players seated at the table. If we don't then everybody else will be lined up and we'll get the door.

I wonder if Obama was counting on Black support after he proved himself capable of winning in Iowa and how much the behavior of the Clintons played into the mass exodus. I don't want him taking the Black vote for granted anymore than them.

Fri Jun 06, 01:38:00 AM 2008

DWS said...

Amen!

Ms. Martin, this is the second time I have read an entry decided what I was going to say and when I clicked to leave my comment you had already managed to express my sentiments.:)

Fri Jun 06, 02:33:00 AM 2008

Ms.Martin said...

DWS

Because we think alike, I'm sure you've expressed my thoughts before.

heartsandflowers

I'm willing to bet that Obama knew we would support him as well as those who encouraged him to run. As Sullivan said, the Clintons have long taken advantage of the AA community and if he could see this, you better believe political insiders saw this and planned accordingly.

As I've said in other posts, I was with him every since that 2004 speech. Maybe it was naieve, but I never thought of him as the unlikely candidate. I always saw something undescribable in him, a silent strenghth, that would prevail.

The past few weeks, I've been concerned that illary may have damaged him, however the way he has handled things for the past coupled of days has me believing he will prevail in spite of her efforts.

Fri Jun 06, 02:51:00 AM 2008

rikyrah said...

I wonder if Obama was counting on Black support after he proved himself capable of winning in Iowa and how much the behavior of the Clintons played into the mass exodus. I don't want him taking the Black vote for granted anymore than them.

Obama knew that the main question of Black folk was

WOULD WHITE FOLKS VOTE FOR HIM?

I also want to remind folks that Black people didn't support Obama because he was Black.

They supported Obama, because, after Iowa and New Hampshire, they believed it was possible he could win.

Obama didn't force Camp Hillpatine to begin calling The Dogwhistle; did he benefit from it, because he knew how Black folk were, yes.

I'll point you to another article;

How Hillary Clinton Botched the Black Vote

IF Hillpatine hadn't of begun calling the Dogwhistle, I think it's possible that she could have gotten 20 percent of the Black vote. Actually, I think she could have gotten 25 percent of it. And, if she had just gotten that....it might be a totally different story.

---------------

Rikyrah,

I was telling this to a white coworker (she is not a Hillary fan, but female members of her family are). I told her that if Hillary had not pulled out the dogwhistle and sounded the racial alarms she would had gotten about 20-30% of the black vote and she would be the Democratic nominee, not Obama. The 20-30% IMO would have been enough to put her over the top in many of the contests.

She said, "No, I really think black people would have given all their votes to Obama, because it's a pride thing."

I told her even Republicans get more black support than what Hillary was getting by the time of NC. I told her I felt the majority of black people would have voted for Obama out of a sense of pride, but he wouldn't have been getting 92% of it. And I told her that many black people were voting AGAINST Hillary and her tricks b/c she and her campaign were out of control with the racebaiting, and really, it was unnecessary. Hillary threw the black vote away and if she hadn't, she would have been the nominee, not Obama.

See, all these white women Hillary supporters ask and wonder, "How can Obama win without US?"

And my question is, "How could Hillary have won the general election without the black vote?"

And surprise, none of these fake feminists can or will answer that question.

Re: How Obama Won: The Past Helps The Present

rikyrah — Fri, 06 Jun 2008 09:08:00 -0000

I wonder if Obama was counting on Black support after he proved himself capable of winning in Iowa and how much the behavior of the Clintons played into the mass exodus. I don't want him taking the Black vote for granted anymore than them.

Obama knew that the main question of Black folk was

WOULD WHITE FOLKS VOTE FOR HIM?

I also want to remind folks that Black people didn't support Obama because he was Black.

They supported Obama, because, after Iowa and New Hampshire, they believed it was possible he could win.

Obama didn't force Camp Hillpatine to begin calling The Dogwhistle; did he benefit from it, because he knew how Black folk were, yes.

I'll point you to another article;

How Hillary Clinton Botched the Black Vote

IF Hillpatine hadn't of begun calling the Dogwhistle, I think it's possible that she could have gotten 20 percent of the Black vote. Actually, I think she could have gotten 25 percent of it. And, if she had just gotten that....it might be a totally different story.

Re: How Obama Won: The Past Helps The Present

Ms.Martin — Fri, 06 Jun 2008 05:51:00 -0000

DWS

Because we think alike, I'm sure you've expressed my thoughts before.

heartsandflowers

I'm willing to bet that Obama knew we would support him as well as those who encouraged him to run. As Sullivan said, the Clintons have long taken advantage of the AA community and if he could see this, you better believe political insiders saw this and planned accordingly.

As I've said in other posts, I was with him every since that 2004 speech. Maybe it was naieve, but I never thought of him as the unlikely candidate. I always saw something undescribable in him, a silent strenghth, that would prevail.

The past few weeks, I've been concerned that illary may have damaged him, however the way he has handled things for the past coupled of days has me believing he will prevail in spite of her efforts.

Re: How Obama Won: The Past Helps The Present

DWS — Fri, 06 Jun 2008 05:33:00 -0000

Amen!

Ms. Martin, this is the second time I have read an entry decided what I was going to say and when I clicked to leave my comment you had already managed to express my sentiments.:)

Re: How Obama Won: The Past Helps The Present

heartsandflowers — Fri, 06 Jun 2008 04:38:00 -0000

Yup! If we have anything to learn from this primary is how much we need to learn about exercising and wielding power. We need to learn the game, the rules, know the players, the real power brokers and what we want. Anyone who is concerned about Obama not addressing 'Black' issues would do well to note how we delivered the nomination to him, but we didn't ask for anything in return. This is wonderful symbolism but it needs to more than integration. We need to be equal players seated at the table. If we don't then everybody else will be lined up and we'll get the door.

I wonder if Obama was counting on Black support after he proved himself capable of winning in Iowa and how much the behavior of the Clintons played into the mass exodus. I don't want him taking the Black vote for granted anymore than them.

Re: How Obama Won: The Past Helps The Present

jelana — Fri, 06 Jun 2008 04:29:00 -0000

Ditto ms martin.
It was extremely personal for me also. I was so upset with Hillary's speech and her demands that I have only tonight been able to celebrate this historical event!

rikyrah

Thanks for the information about the loyal democrats. I had no idea that it worked this way. Thank God for Jesse Jackson too. We FINALLY actually count for something!

Re: How Obama Won: The Past Helps The Present

Ms.Martin — Fri, 06 Jun 2008 02:27:00 -0000

Amen rikyrah and Andrew Sullivan said it best.

As I've said before change will involve a lot of the black politicians who were willing to turn a deaf ear to the demeaning of their own race by the Clintons.

I took this very personally and I will never forget what they've done. EVER.