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I don't have the same fondness for Clinton's that other Democrats have. Clinton wanted to jail black people. He fought to keep the drug laws unfair. He fought to remove the social safety net from the poor. And his wife was right there with him.
::
Say it again.
The thing is that Barack has shown me that the majority of whites are willing to unite behind a common purpose.There is no way to reasonably explain the plurality of victories Obama has achieved. Although racial overtones abound, this thing is about power, not race. Hillary Rodham Clinton is quite explicit about defining herself as a watchful, protective mother and us citizens as babes to be tucked away in bed or minors for whom she will decide the best social policy. Senator Obama has promulgated a vision of change percolating from the bottom up.
For all of my life I thought entrenched racial interests were primary determinants of public life. Barack showed me I was wrong. If the Democrat Party can't take us, black, white, Latino, everyone, to where we want to go then let's discard her and start anew. YES WE CAN.
The following might help (borrowed from another blog):
The Clintons are wiley and skilled campaigners, but they have a long history, in word and deed, of being anything but racist. It is clear that the Obama camp designs and executes deliberate racially inflammatory tactics. Equally important, Obama's team and supporters are marked by a kneejerk, paranoiac, sometimes hysterical mentality that sees racism as ever diabolically present---a mentality that is very common among black Americans. Hillary Clinton's comment about LBJ is a perfect case in point. There was zero racial implication in her remarks. She was highlighting the fact that it takes a politician of skill and experience to get a law enacted, no matter the nobility of public demand calling for that law. To have charged her with therefore diminishing Martin Luther King was insane, shameful, and more important, indicative of the reactionary hatred---"reverse racism"---epidemic among black Americans in the era of tyrannical political correctness.
Peace
hillary is the one who has demonstrated a multiple-personality disorder in addition to crying and whining and throwing hysterical child-like tantrums when she doesn't get her way or the votes she feels she deserves and being paranoid that everyone is out to get her. her campaign team has also demonstrated the art of "transferral"...when you accuse your opponent of doing the very things that you yourself do...such as follow the republican "down and dirty politics playbook", such as copy others' words and not attibute them (note obama did attribute the words he copied), such as sling mud, name-call, race-bait and fear-monger.
The truth is that the emperor has no clothes on and she has been called out.
Yeah, because, you know that's the kind of comment that makes people want to support your candidate. It's the talking down, the "mother knows best", the "wait your turn" attitude that turns so many people off to your candidate. You want to know why the youth votes for Barack Obama in such large numbers? He treats them with respect. I'm white, but people like you make me sick.
But worse than that, significant numbers of African-American voters would vote for an alternate candidate or worst of all, boycott the election all together. It is that worst case scenario that we need to be trumpeting from the rooftops, loud enough for every unpledged superdelegate to hear in every corner of America. The message needs to be that Hllary Clinton poisons the ticket all the way down to the local level.
Sorry that it seemed to not be worth it, but I'm not sorry. These were the same folks who told me and others that we were ' imagining' things with the Dogwhistle Politics. They may not listen, but they'll never be able to say that they weren't told.
anon 9:15 is a stupid m-fer! When have one ever been able to reason with a stupid m-fer?!
1) "Don't let the door hit you..."
2) "That's a load of crap. Everyone will unite behind the candidate whoever it is."
Of late, there is a 3rd reply: "Are you threatening me?"
I honestly think and hope that the party leaders are more intelligent (or at least pragmatic) than the Kos community. If not, Denver may, indeed, metaphorically burn and the party along with it. And what saddens me is that, if that's the case, as much as the party has been warned, they'll never see it coming.
Anyway, not to hog your comment thread. Just wanted to thank you.
They don't have the built-in radar that we have (which can only come from years of living while Brown in America). Radar that is able to pick up on all of the nuances and behaviors related to racism and race baiting used by the Clintons and by the Republicans.
I am also glad that there are other bloggers who see what I see and I don't have to explain every detail. I can also relate on the issue of rage. Clinton has short circuited my brain over the last few days.... leaving me damn near incapacitated...in terms of not being able to really concentrate on writing...
My head has been pounding too.
Finally today I was able to start thinking straight again.
(You can even see how Obama has been rattled a little).
You hit the nail on the head Wednesday on NPR's News and Notes.
I was saying Amen when the issue of media bias was mentioned.
The media is clearly trying to help Clinton.
Even today... I have yet to see one major network report that Obama actually won more delegates out of Texas. I have yet to see a major network mention that Clinton only managed to gain a small handful of delegates (single digits) out of the entire night... when she really needed to gain 20, 30, or 40 delegates.
How in the Hell is that a huge victory? It's all about perception.
And they are spinning the Hell out of her wins.
I have yet to hear the big media mention the fact that just 4 or 5 weeks ago... Clinton was leading in Texas and Ohio by very large margins...as much as 20 points... None have given Obama any positive coverage for the way he was able to close the gap to be competitive in States that he was never supposed to win.
Instead...they turned it around and made it a huge failure for Obama...despite the fact that these were States that Clinton was supposed to win all along.
I'm rattled....but not by Obama's perceived losses...but by the way the White corporate media is framing events....and by how they are assisting Clinton by essentially using her talking points and by not scrutinizing her the way that they scrutinize Obama.
I'm also rattled (but not surprised) by the racism amongst the electorate... I expected that all along. That's why I never thought Obama had a snowballs chance in Hell- The U.S. is a racist nation... that will likely never give a Black candidate any real chance. But what really bothers me is how the uneducated voting public in some of these States is falling for the Clinton bull.
I think racism is beginning to trump the "Change Theme". And this is why the Clinton's have been using the issue of race. Yes...people want change...but Clinton is reminding them that Barack is "The Black Guy" and that "Real Change" is not worth that kind of risky "roll of the dice". And what kind of "change" with the d*mb inexperienced n***er bring you anyway?
And once you plant seeds of doubt about a Black candidate in White voters... it takes on a life of its own. The doubt about Black people is already in the White brain....It is built-in; it simply needs to be triggered or turned on. And Clinton understands this and is trying to exploit it for all it's worth.
Barack will be damaged from here on out.... the question will be... to what degree will he be damaged.
It appeared that he lost some White voters in Ohio and Texas... So the racial nonsense is really starting to take a toll.
It will probably hurt him in Pennsylvania, Indiana, Oregon, and other places... even in Mississippi and North Carolina. But he should win enough of the remaining States to stay ahead in delegates. Wyoming will be interesting. Mississippi will be interesting as well... I want to see what percentage of the White vote he gets in both States.
I sat down and wrote a battle plan for Obama (If only I were a strategist for him). Clinton is so vulnerable in so many ways.... Unfortunately... Obama has no political attack dogs who could ruin her candidacy. They are too soft.
I could ruin her candidacy in about two weeks if I had the right pulpit.
African Americans need anger management? Yeah, we've heard it a million times. It's a phrase often used to minimize and demean us rather than debate the real issues, which in this case is the obvious trailer park approach of Clinton's to this campaign. I'm assuming from your spew here that you live in that park with her.
It was the angry response to the suggestion that MLK was significant in changing civil rights for minorities in this country that exposed Clinton (who was getting her ass kicked by the other thing you call us: uppity ....) who also by the way seems to be offended by the assumption that Obama could be president.
"The Clintons are wiley and skilled campaigners......."
Code word for slick ass criminals.
Poll
Do you think the Democrats will win the Presidency this year?
Yes
32% 434 votes
Only if Hillary Clinton is the nominee
3% 34 votes
Only if Barack Obama is the nominee
51% 694 votes
Only if they run on the same ticket
1% 12 votes
Only if somebody other than one of them is picked in Denver
1% 12 votes
No
5% 65 votes
I do not know
6% 83 votes
I do not care
1% 12 votes
Other
1% 10 votes
Obama has more votes than the Democrats (no candidate specified) do.
No apologies needed, we're with you 100%.
It's interesting that you bring this issue up. I've been busy lately and not checking the Blogs, but a few friends and I were recently talking independently, about the level of rage and civil unrest that would result if Hillary were nominated by the Dems against a clear majority of the popular will.
It's out of reach for Hillary now-- Obama has a majority of pledged delegates, of popular votes in the primaries (and that's not even considering his utter domination of the caucuses), and the majority of the states. And note, we're also not even considering the 1 million + "disqualified" pro-Obama ballots in California with that BS technicality, or the Harlem districts where Obama somehow got zero votes, with Charlie Rangel doing his best Stepin' Fetchit routine and rigging the vote machines.
By any metric, Obama has out-and-out won the popular acclaim in the Democratic primaries and caucuses over Hillary, and he'll only add to that further with both Texas and Ohio behind us (with all their favorable Hillary demographics).
Yet Hillary is still trying to pull this desperate BS with the superdelegates and trying to seat FL and MI, despite Obama not being able to campaign and not even being on the damn ballot there! Failing an actual nomination, Hillary's "Plan B" is to damage Obama enough so that he would lose to McCain despite leading him in the polls-- even though her own political career would basically be finished, she would be doing this out of sheer spite.
She's also continuing in her racist campaign. The same one that got whipped up back in Nevada and South Carolina. The same one that encouraged that idiot Hillary Latino backer in Texas to declare that Obama is a "little too black" for Latinos (despite the fact that La Opinion, the country's biggest Spanish newspaper, and a large number of Latino politicians have all endorsed Obama). The same one that pushed 8 out of 10 of the race-conscious voters in Ohio (fortunately still a minority of Ohio's otherwise tolerate and respectful voters) to indulge their racist hatreds and vote against Obama.
We are Black, White, Asian and Latino in my group, professionals, academics and working-class of all shades.
We all talked about the ugly riots and civil unrest that would take place, almost with absolute certainty, if Hillary were nominated under such corrupt circumstances, or if she succeeds in damaging Obama enough as the nominee (as she is obviously doing, deliberately) to make him non-viable against McCain.
We all agreed that the rage and consequences of either Hillary's Plan A or Plan B would be horrible beyond belief, the Democratic Party would suffer irreparable damage requiring tremendous efforts to repair, and the riots would be much, much, much worse and more destructive than what happened even in the late 1960's.
Obviously, the superdelegates and/or the MI/FL BS would be appalling in and of themselves, as they would basically be trying to validate Hillary's racist campaign, her disenfranchisement attempts and her divisiveness, while showing that machine politics and backroom deals are far more important than the popular will.
However, as our little impromptu seminar went along, we realized that the reasons for such an explosion of rage and anger would be about something much deeper than that. It's not just about Hillary's tactics.
It's about the way that Hillary's tactics have lined up with a strain of thought in the USA, that clearly remains predominant, if not widely talked about:
That the American Dream as framed and exploited by the Clintons, in its ugly reality rather than the feel-good bromides about it, means social advancement and wealth IN ITS ESSENCE at the expense of African-Americans. Poor Whites, Latinos, Asians are supposed to "become more American," in the Hillary narrative, by the depth of their hatred for Blacks and the extent to which they spit on us.
And if the Democratic Party were to validate this narrative by choosing Hillary over Obama, against the popular vote-- then yes, cleansing riots, rage and civil unrest will happen, and probably out of sheer inevitability. As I'll explain below, all of us agreed that we ourselves will participate in peaceful, though firm and massive protests throughout the country, with all kinds of means to attract media attention. We will also call for periodic general strikes to inflict some economic pain and further ingrain the price that must be paid for flouting democracy. Finally, we will continue all of these things well past the November 2008 election, as I will explain below. Others, of course, will go even further than this.
The "true version of the American Dream" as I described above-- becoming "American" by stepping on and hating already downtrodden African-Americans-- has been the actual narrative of the USA since even before 1776. Blacks were worked to death, sickness, poverty and despair as slaves to build the agricultural and industrial infrastructure of the USA, never paid a dime for it, never allowed to do the social climbing that Whites took for granted. (This happened in both the North and South of the USA.) Then we and our labor were further exploited under Jim Crow and sharecropping, then under the corrupt and racist factory systems that arose with industrialization in the cities.
In short, we African-Americans have been the "Morlocks" of the United States, despised, scorned, and hidden below ground even as our largely uncompensated labor and efforts have built the rich, first-world, United States of America superpower paradise for the racist White "Eloi" above us. While many Whites have admirably come to our defense, neither their nor our efforts have been sufficient to dislodge the defining narrative of the country, which is this effort to foster a first-world, Anglo, White superpower paradise for the Eloi who spit on us below.
Which leads to the second part of the "true American dream," which is that people newly in this country-- even if not White themselves-- gain access to the coveted place of the Eloi, along with the racist Whites, specifically by trampling on and hating Blacks. Indeed, the most constant strain in "becoming American," whether White American or Latino or Asian American, has been defined by this narrative, above all else, as expressing and acting upon one's hatred of Blacks, in public or private.
The Irish, when they came to the USA, were themselves despised by the Anglos, just as Anglo Britain hated the Irish in Ireland. But the Irish here were accepted as "American" by the Anglos specifically when they in turn, expressed their clear hatred of Blacks.
It is the same today even with non-White newcomers. Latinos and Asians are accepted as "entering the American mainstream" specifically when they go through their "rite of passage" of hating Blacks. This is the narrative that Hillary uses and amplifies to gain votes, rather than a more inclusive, encompassing paradigm that would have us join together.
IOW, the American Dream, the one that has fostered this Anglo superpower nation, is defined in large part at the expense of Blacks, and intentionally so-- the American Dream and American identity are achieved, above all else, by hating and spitting on Blacks as one moves up the social ladder.
Obama is as tough a candidate as the Democrats will ever have. He is a top graduate of Harvard Law School, an editor of the Harvard Law Review, a successful civil rights attorney, a prescient Senator who anticipated the disaster in Iraq when most politicians on both sides of the aisle were rushing in, and a brilliant campaigner who has taken on the Clinton machine and beaten it, hands-down.
If even Obama is cheated out of the nomination (Hillary's Plan A) or damaged so severely by Hillary's continuing hate campaign so that he loses against McCain (Hillary's Plan B, of spite and pique), then the message is obvious: That African-Americans will never, ever be given the opportunity to stand up for ourselves and hold positions of leadership, aside from some minor crumbs tossed in our direction by the Massas. Also, with the demographics in this country making us an ever-shrinking percentage of the population, it'll only get worse.
There can be one response to this, and one response only: A militant, angry, and painful one for the racists who rule this country.
One of my Latino friends actually, whose father had worked with the Cesar Chavez UFW movement, actually made an excellent point to us, and I'll paraphrase: Radicalism and militancy may be last resorts, but they have a crucial place in the fight for justice. They are the sharpest sticks if the carrots are rejected, the baddest of the bad cops, to be brought out when it is clear that our racist opponents like Hillary Clinton will stop at nothing, break all the rules, even embrace massive corruption to keep us down.
IOW, radicalism and militancy would be necessary responses to Hillary's Plan A or her Plan B. And there should be no hesitation in deploying them.
The hard truth, as we all know, is that you have to fight and fight damn, damn hard to win justice. There are too many vested interests who profit from the "true American dream" of profiting at our expense, to allow us to have real power and justice. Frederick Douglass, Nat Turner, Harriet Tubman, Rosa Parks and Martin Luther King did not win rights for us by being docile and placid, or "waiting their turns," or "being well-behaved Negroes" in the face of injustice-- they fought hard, and they gave it to the racists on the chin.
And so must it be for us. Militancy and radicalism.
It is the only way to sear the lesson into the American memory and consciousness, that we will not be pushed around, and that you do not mess with us.
Since the true American Dream can only be achieved by hating and spitting on Blacks as non-Blacks do their social climbing, then our only option is to destroy that dream, and to make it clear that the only acceptable American Dream for this country to survive, is one that recognizes us and our construction of this country from the ground up, and which offers us respect. And the country needs to suffer, and suffer bitterly.
Worst-case scenario, if this hateful narrative continues and the way things are moving these days, the course of events may even be leading to some de facto partition of the country. African-Americans are basically the vast majority in much of the Deep South and growing, as well as in parts of the Industrial Midwest around Illinois, Ohio and Michigan. Latinos of course are in the Southwest and Florida. Asians in San Francisco. Whites of various strains elsewhere. The only way to prevent such an eventuality is to tear down the American dream that has been built and amplified like this, the one that makes people American by hating us and advancing at our expense, and replace it with a new one. Barring this, partition is the only future of the USA.
If this sounds like a bit of malice and malevolence-- well, call it what you want, but it has to be made clear that if the "true American dream" continues in the form of this despicable narrative, that America's wealth and superpower status have been and must continue to be achieved at the expense of African-Americans, then America must be ruined as a wealthy superpower. Period. No such wealth and power in the presence of such rank injustice. That if the USA wants to regain and continue as a great and powerful nation, then it can no longer continue the American Dream as it has unfolded with each generation.
What this means in practice, of course, is that the consequences of either Hillary's Plan A or her Plan B must be extremely cruel and painful, for the party and for the country, to make it clear that there are horrific consequences for pushing this hateful narrative against us.
As I wrote above, all of us in our group agreed that we will pursue a plan of action including peaceful, but extremely vigorous, widespread and prolonged protests (well past November 2008). We will simultaneously launch a series of general strikes throughout the nation, to further paralyze (albeit temporarily) the economy. We will of course name names, with Hillary Clinton and Bill Clinton as well as any of their enablers getting top billing. They will be hanged and burned in effigy, their names and images brutally attacked with all the media and means at our disposal.
Others, of course, will do more.
Our aims with this will be two-fold:
1. We will naturally be drawing intensive media attention, both domestic and international, to the despicable travesty of justice that Hillary's actions and her enablers' support have brought about.
2. We will be precipitating a temporary, though severe and painful economic crisis, that will in turn result in a loss of dollar support and a total loss of international investor confidence in US assets and US "safe havens"-- with an obvious lesson to our own corrupt political classes, and the added bonus of likely forcing a withdrawal from Iraq.
As most of you are aware of, the only reason that the USA can continue as a "superpower" even as we sink to more than $11 trillion in debt, to have all these bases worldwide, to fight these imperialistic wars in Iraq, Afghanistan and the former Yugoslavia-- is that rich manufacturing and oil-exporting nations, such as Japan, Britain, China, Saudi Arabia, Australia, the United Arab Emirates, Qatar, Russia, France, Germany and the Netherlands, continue to park so much of their money and savings in the USA. The belief is that the USA has so much "political stability" and protection in US bonds and debt instruments, that they need not worry about the value of their assets.
Translation: The White racist massas of the USA continue to keep a tight leash on America's Blacks and keep the whip hand steady if African-Americans get too uppity, with Blacks therefore remaining docile and obedient to their massas, and thus little risk of social unrest.
We need to demonstrate to them, conclusively, the error of their judgment.
This will give rise to a loss of confidence in the US debt-driven imperialistic warfare state (at home as much as abroad), a further tumbling of the dollar, and enough of a shock that the US's superpower imperialistic arrogance, its active hatred of its Black minority, its chronic warfare and military overextension at the expense of tending to the most basic needs of its impoverished African-American and Latino minorities-- is entirely untenable.
Our war in Iraq will also be financially unsustainable, since the total loss of foreign investor confidence will lead to a drying-up of credit and make it impossible to finance our imperialistic wars anymore.
Now, I and most of my friends and family aren't rich, we're working or middle-class even those of us in the budding professional group, and we have no doubts that we'll have to keep a stiff upper lip, and tough it out through some difficult economic times ourselves.
But we're going to be facing a painful recession regardless, made even worse by the War in Iraq, and if we fail to stand up for ourselves in the face of such obvious injustice, and at a crucial juncture, things would get much worse for us. Respect for us would rapidly wane as we would be perceived as chumps, and the "true American Dream" that is forged specifically at the expense of Blacks, and to our continuing detriment, will only grow louder and even more intense.
However, if we stand up for ourselves, then we will halt this downward spiral against us, and with our troops pulled out of Iraq-- and the USA oriented in a less imperialistic direction-- things will quickly turn around for us. There is no other option for us but to stand firm.
It proves decisively once and for all WHY Obama must not be seen as fighting dirty.
I never want to see another post about how Obama has to fight fire with fire, again. I'm not going to get my wish, but I can still dream it anyway.
For me, I reserve the option to decide how I'll vote in November no matter who the nominee and I greatly resent those who think they can count on my support for her and the Democratic party no matter what. In 2004 after Kerry took Bill Clinton's advice and changed his position on gay marriage I held my nose and voted for him; that doesn't mean I'll do the same if the Clintons steal the nomination after a racist campaign culminating in them joining with McCain in an attack on Barack Obama's fitness as commander and chief.
I'm angry too. How can anybody not be?
jon
PS: and also agreed with everybody in the thread other than anonymous
@submariner, Although racial overtones abound, this thing is about power, not race. Hillary Rodham Clinton is quite explicit about defining herself as a watchful, protective mother and us citizens as babes to be tucked away in bed or minors for whom she will decide the best social policy. Senator Obama has promulgated a vision of change percolating from the bottom up.
oh my lord, BAM!!!! oh my lord, oh my lord, that is it! THAT IS IT!!! that is the difference in a nutshell, thank you so much for putting it like this. What frightens me are the number of people who want what Hillary is offering!
@Anonymous 9:15pm, I will pray for you, as I will pray for Anonymous 9:22pm in another thread. You are lost. You can still be found.
@Anonymous 9:27pm, echo chambers are bandaids, though. They need to know what's going down, and we need to know what's going down, too. That way, nobody can say 'I didn't know what hit me!' I'll be honest, I don't think that Democrats want blacks in the party, we don't offer 'largest minority' cachet, and we've proven that we will vote Democrat no matter what happens (see: Maryland 2006).
How much power do we really hold? How much power could we hold?
@sick and tired of hillary, you bring up a point I've wondered about. If Britney Spears can be diagnosed as bipolar......... can Hillary? how much is she acting (playing poker) and how much is she being herself? her plastered smiles frighten me for her, because (and I've said this many times) she looks medicated out the gills. it's a huge difference when she genuinely appears happy, and those few moments when she genuinely smiles just makes all the other times that much more disturbing, to me.
@ eric in manassas, cosign.
@ isaiah58, they'll learn it too late. or rather, daily kossacks will learn it when an acceptably white face tells it to them (because not all white face is created equal).
@ costello7, your three responses are (sadly) on point. I've noticed it over there, too. I'd have thought that real party members working for the good of the party would never be so cavalier about the possible defection of loyal party constituents. The excuse was that the site was for the election of Democrats, period, and if you advocated any deviation from that objective you weren't Kossack material and you needed to leave. There was talk among Kossacks for a while of trollrating and autobanning anyone who dared speak of 'I'm not voting Democrat if such and such is the nominee because of this'. I think Democrat should be more than a wannabe Communist party, though. Tossing out everybody leaves nobody.
Not dealing with Hillary's high negatives and the methods she employs to 'win' over fellow Democrats is a deeper political suicide than sheepish straight ticket voting. There comes a point (to me) where you have to go back to the basics, the basics of what the party stands for. If a candidate does not stand for those basics, or conducts themselves in such a way that they are dishonoring those basics... they are not a true Democrat and should not be given the benefit of support just because they registered as a Democrat. Coddling such behavior changes the party in negative ways, ways which undercut and undermine the party's original goals. Kossacks need to ask Republicans on that one.
but yes, i agree with your post, costello.
you wrote, I think racism is beginning to trump the "Change Theme". And this is why the Clinton's have been using the issue of race. Yes...people want change...but Clinton is reminding them that Barack is "The Black Guy" and that "Real Change" is not worth that kind of risky "roll of the dice". And what kind of "change" with the d*mb inexperienced n***er bring you anyway?
that's exactly what's going down. it must feel good, feel comfortable, feel safe to go down that road. I don't know what that says about Democrats. Will Obama be accused of not fighting hard enough, after all is said and done; in the same way that black families are accused of not trying hard enough to reach the media when trying to find their kidnapped chidlren?
@ Ms.Martin, "The Clintons are wiley and skilled campaigners......." Code word for slick ass criminals.
Cosign.
I relocated to London a few years ago, and am always looking for ways to keep abreast of issues pertaining to the Black community back home and beyond.
I came across you guys via a link on the Drudge Report a couple months back and have been addicted ever sense.
You have really caused me, and others, to think outside the box when it comes to this election and issues affecting our community.
Kudos to you and keep up the great work.
In other news, I'll bet the hits for this blog will at least double.
OOO
______________________________________
Change is never easy and without consequence. I am white, and independent, and for too long I have felt that black Americans put themselves in a box by constantly supporting the Democrat party. You have been taken for granted. Now Obama represents a real opportunity for change within your party, and the party is in a civil war.
Fact: the Democrat Party is a coalition of several groups of Americans who for one reason or another feel left behind, cheated, disenfranchised, alienated, or discriminated against. All of these groups look to the white elites of the Democrat Party to rescue them from their predicament through the mechanism of big government. You all have been made dependent, and been told that there is no other home for you. Blacks who are conservative and Republicans are called traitors to their race, Uncle Tom's and worse. There is no opportunity for dissent, no hope for independent thought within the Democrat Party.
Many, like Jill, will stick with the Party because they are ideologically progressive. But are the majority of black Americans equally so? Or have they been told that the "Rethugs" are racist and will never take care of you like we can. It's a reprehensible, manipulative tactic that subverts one's individuality and independence.
I have no doubt that Hillary will become your nominee and it makes me ill to think that THEY (the corrupt, white, Democrat machine) will so readily crush all in their wake in the quest for power.
DO IT! Become independent. Break away from a party that seeks your loyalty while giving you little in return. Take a look at what you truly believe, and feel free to choose a candidate or a party who YOU (not your group) feel will serve YOU best.
The GOP or a 3rd party would love to have you under their tent. Now is a great opportunity to take a look at McCain, or Bloomberg and open a meaningful dialog. You have more power and influence as individuals or as an individual group (Black Christians?)if you become INDEPENDENT of the Democrat Party.
Don't burn Denver. Walk out of Denver.
_____________________________________
VOTE GOP or INDEPENDENT.
The best thing Obama could do is walk away from the Democrat party. Half the Dems don't yearn for a 'new kind of politics." Half the Dems don't share his vision. It's becoming clearer everyday.
______________________________________
Clinton = 1/2 of the Democrat Party.
Your party is racist. Not America.
Thank you for falling on your sword, soulja. You didn't have to. You didn't have to.
All of us participants at JJP owe you a debt of gratitude.
"You didn't have to" is exactly right because what did it accomplish that was positive or beneficial in any respect to Senator Obama. Nothing, it was the exact opposite. Yet, as I predicted above and evidenced by recent posts, the hits of this website have increased...so something was achieved.
"I have been watching the Clinton campaign with utter disgust. The lies, the race baiting, the personal destructive attacks on Sen. Obama are some of the things that I and many other Americans would like changed. Sen. Obama has attempted to run a campaign that rises above all the muck the Clintons love to wallow in. His message of hope and change are more than just words. His accomplishments and his ability to have succeeded to this point are clear examples to us voters who support him. The enthusiasm we have for him is as much about our own personal beliefs and aspirations for ourselves and country as they are for his leadership.
I have written before and I will restate again, that I will NOT vote for Clinton under any circumstance if she wins the Democratic nomination.
If she does win the nomination I will register as an Independent and not only vote for John McCain I will volunteer locally for his campaign. I will vote for McCain because he is the most likely to beat Clinton and I do want her defeated.
There are other Democrats I know personally who feel the same. It doesn't feel good to write this message, but, if the Democratic party leaders can't find the guts to get behind the one person who can truly change the course of this country instead of returning us to the same old establishment politics then you don't deserve to win in November.
It isn't Clinton who is bringing in new voters to the party, it is Sen. Obama. His message and his leadership resonates across party lines, gender and racial divides. You all know this but you continue to let the Clintons set the tone and agenda not only for the party but the country as if we are all their lackies who have to sit back and put up with their status quo gutter politics. Well this American says "no" to all that and I hope and pray the majority of us voters do the same.
Frankly, if the Democratic party leaders allow this election to be stolen from Sen. Obama I would encourage him to run as a third party and take us followers with him.
Angela Patterson
emailed to the DNC on Friday, 3/7/08
but hey, let's go for it. i'm so much removed from the elections and either of the competitors that i can happily speak my very own words: clinton is a monster!
clinton is a monster.
these are my words, they are only to be associated with me. and i'm quite glad to say them.
that woman -by now you know i like to call her thus- is an eerie monster when she tries to change the rules, move her own goalposts, lie and cheat. she is even eerily holding out her left hand when she speaks on stage, when she slimily smirks declaring the "come-back that new hampshire has given given" her.
she is eerie when she still talks about her being a victim to the gop conspiracy against her then president husband -who lied to the public about a fucking blow-job- and she is eerie bringing the issue of ken starr up again now, as totally out of context as a monster appears totally out of the dark.
she is eerie because you never know what kind of dirty attack she will come on next, but you know there will be one as sure as the sun rises in the morning, and you know it will be really dirty. you know it because you have experienced her attacks already.
you know that she is out there and that she will attack, and you wonder what silver bullet -no, i'm not speaking about literally shooting anybody, stupid- will finally help to put her down.
you're human and you don't want to use bullets, hurt anyone or any-thing, you've never done it, you're just afraid of what the next hit might be and how low it will come in. you don't know where to point the gun, you don't even know how to point it. you don't even want to. and then again you know that you must, and you shake. because you're human. you're both caring -even for a monster, a living being- and shocked.
you know she is waiting for you, you're never certain which tree she will come around next -or rather from under which stone she'll crawl up again- but you are certain, very certain, that she will come, and she will be nasty, she will be relentless, she will be deceiving, and she simply won't stop until she is double finished; and even then she might resuscitate, and you know that too.
she is like coming out of a warped parallel universe, where she is always the winner no matter what she does or what twisted means she resorts to.
well, that woman is a monster.
quite a precise description.
That community is very clost to being a damned cult. Anything KOS says, is what goes.
They act like they are progressive. MANY OF THEM ARE NOT.
Kos himself is a reformed Republican, but I would trust Charles Barkley's reformation before I'd trust Kos.
He did do a service by calling out Harold Ford Jr. on Meet the Press and ended it with Ford begging to come to YearlyKos this year, where he knows he will be as welcomed as a whore in a convention of Priests.
I give Kos props for that and for calling out the Borg Queen. But his commenters flame anyone who does not agree with them. Case in point - you qualified your statement by saying it was metamorphical, and they blew right past your qualifying statement to flame you anyway.
They want to sing "Kuubaayah" but don't want to get their hands dirty to get to where you can sing the song.
And I noticed Kos hasn't taken your suggestion of a forum for Black Bloggers into consideration, or has he? Cause I don't really keep up with Kos or his convention, either. Especially since they don't give US a seat at the table and expect us to be happy with scraps from the Master's table. Ugh
"GET. THAT. SAID." and "Clear it up!"
terrific letter
that rocked on so many levels...I couldn't even begin to explain how terrific that was.
I want Obama to be President. Riots because he loses will forever damage his ability to win. A peaceful burning of the voter registration cars would make the same statement, and tell Hillary to Fuck Off.
"Obama's premise is that the superdelegates have to ratify as the nominee whichever candidate ends up with the lead in delegates. That looks like a pretty sure thing for him at the moment. But when you count Florida and Michigan, the popular vote is very close with the two candidates separated by 30,000 votes. Even if maybe she can't overcome the delegate gap, Clinton could overtake Obama in the popular vote. Then what should superdelegates do? How do you decide, as the Democratic mantra goes, to count every vote?
What irony that would be for a Democratic Party that has spent the last seven years complaining that Al Gore won the popular vote but lost the presidency because Bush had the general election equivalent of delegate strength, the Electoral College vote.
Obama needs to find a way to regain the momentum. Upcoming votes in Wyoming and Mississippi are expected wins for him; then comes crucial Pennsylvania next month where Clinton is favored. A close finish means the superdelegates may actually have to weigh all the political considerations and take responsibility for picking the nominee. That could make for a bitter fight leading up to the convention and recriminations after. The allegiances of two important constituencies -- African Americans and women -- are at stake. Who will be angrier -- and likely to stay at home in November -- if their candidate is seen as unfairly losing a razor-close contest?
And how might Obama's refusal to answer questions about Rezko come in play in deciding his fate?"
Hell has been unleashed.
Don't you get it...black Dems have been thrown under the bus. Hello Hispanics. The DNC doesn't need you...there are just as many Jill's as Jack's out there.
Uh, ok. Maybe they're not really racists. But on the other hand, does that really matter when the effect is the exactly the same as it would be if they really were racists?
"Hello Hispanics".
Yes, "Hello Hispanics", unless and until Hillary wins the nomination, and the trianglation dictates that she thow THEIR asses under the bus by running to the right of McCain on immigration.
Therefore, Hillary's scorched earth campaigning cannot be seen as anything less than what it is: RACIST and DEMEANING.
She wants the nomination at all costs, whether or not she single handedly destroys the Democratic Party.
When the dust clears and the analysis begins as to why another ReThug is in office, do not blame voter turnout, Barack Obama, Ralph Nader or Karl Rove, for that matter.
All slimy trails lead right back to Hillary Clinton. If she ever wanted another reason for hatred because she is such a polarizing woman, she just got it.
I don't care what she thinks about Obama - if she's the nominee, don't think twice that McCain's staff isn't filing away these YouTube clips of her endorsing him for future use - and they can be used against Obama, too: "See, even Hillary Clinton thinks I'm more qualified than you to be POTUS!"
The gloves are off, and the curtain has been drawn. I wonder what Mr. Hater, Tavis Smiley, thinks about the monster he helped to continue creating, when the rest of the public was trying to deliver the killer blow and he stopped it with his Negro Super Bowl and giving her the platform she needed to tell us darkies to get on back to the plantation or else.
I'll never forgive him or her for destroying the process because he didn't want to do the heavy lifting of being a real leader - her, because she didn't give a rat's ass about what the voters want, because she knows best.
Interesting how you seem to think I'm a white liberal. I'm a white independent. I prefer Obama to Clinton. The Clinton's are a cancer on the body politic and they are eating the Democratic Party alive.
So many Republicans wish to be rid of the Clinton's because they have seen up close, the 'politics of personal destruction' foist upon the country by the Clinton's. The entire Democrat Party came to Billary's defense EACH and EVERY time their ethics and morality were called into question. You gave her the teflon coating that cannot be worn away before the convention.
White liberals will get in line behind Clinton because they worship at the altar of the Supreme Court where all will be made right as a few elitist judges subvert the will of the people and enact into law their progressive, oppressive policy preferences.
White liberals will take Hillary's offer to put Obama in the VP slot. Then women and blacks can all join hands, sing "Kum-by-a" and feel oh so good about themselves.
White liberals are oppressors, not liberators.
I believe it's necessary to employ a 3 strikes policy of our own, each more punitive than the next.
If Billary's snatch 'n grab works then we have three options black America:
1.) Strategic non-voting.
2.) Vote Nader.
3.) Vote McCain.
For those of you who can't stomach voting McCain and believe a Nader vote is an infantile gesture, just stay home. Don't vote. However, let precinct captains and Democratic operatives and pollsters know why you're not voting. Say it loud, they screwed Barack.
Option two is for progressives who don't want to be culpable in a McCain presidency but cannot sit by idly on election day.
Option tree is for Machiavellians like myself. I'm a progressive leftist, but I'm a cutthroat. I want Billary to lose. I want to punish the Democrats. Enough is truly enough.
I wasn't talking about you when I referenced white liberals. I didn't know you were white. I've been reading the liberal blogs and seeing the uproar over Clinton effectively endorsing McCain multiple times.
Does this strategy even apply if Obama takes the VP slot, which I think he will?
Considering Barack's leading in pledged delegates, popular votes and states won, what makes you think he would accept? I mean, why would he? What signs have indicated he's going to other than him not saying, "Hell no!" to the questions of an Obama/Clinton or Clinton/Obama dream ticket.
I'm going to need a string of logic or empirical evidence.
I see no benefit for Obama accepting VP. He'd inherit all the Clinton baggage, thus losing independents, rogue Republicans and new voters. He'd be muzzled oratorically, Robin can't outshine Batman. Thus, a dip in popularity for being the sidekick to a 51% Clinton presidency.
What does he get? Ask Al Gore, being the VP for Billary means you're 3rd in command at the White House.
I'm sticking with my 3-tier strategy. Black America, either
1. non-voting
2. vote Nader
3. vote McCain
It should especially apply if he is forced to the back of the bus. Blacks don't support Barack just because he is black, so it is a mistake for the democratic party to assume that a black face on the bottom of a ticket that he earned the right to top will put black people back in line. Some Blacks who love to live on their knees for sure will jump at the chance to vote for Hillary under any circumstances but that is not a majority, in my experience.
As far as the 'racist dogwhistles' are concerned...
not seeing it.
'there is more honor in obama's approach'
A rationalization surely, for to deny that Obama is himself a politician challenges the entire argument you have against Clinton.
Furthermore, conflating Obama's nomination with the larger issue of entrenched racism is bound to blow up in his and all of our faces.
______________________________________
Obama is a Democrat. A young, up and coming Democrat with strong ties to Kennedy, Durbin and other party elders. It is in his own self interest to accept as it will give him the experience that has been his major deficit. Hillary is going to beat McCain and if he doesn't take the spot, where will he be in 8 years?
Do you really see him refusing? He'd be finished in the party. Unless he is seriously considering breaking from the party, what real choice does he have? Lose, decline the VP slot, and go back to the Senate? The VP slot is the fastest, proven way to the Presidency.
Neither candidate will have enough pledged delegates to clinch the nomination by the convention. Hillary is laying the groundwork necessary to overtake him in the popular vote. She will win at a brokered convention because she will make sure Obama is too weakened to be viable.
he earned the right to the top. that's is key.
hillary... her 'ohio' comment about how it was Ohio who proved that she should be on top of a merged ticket...there goes my blood pressure again. and how telling that it was ohio that made that designation, not any of the 11 states Obama threw down on her; not even California and New York, where she 'won'. No, it was Ohio. Where's my Avapro?
Some folks are fine with us playing ourselves, though. It means we don't have to take responsibility. We're not good enough to take full responsibility, we'll 'mess up' (like the brainwashing put into schoolchildren's heads by southern apologists regarding Reconstruction).
After reading the DailyKos responses I think it is clearer than before. In the minds of white liberals, black voters are the bottom bitch. Until we demonstrate otherwise we're playing ourselves.
I am most down with strategic non-voting. Do not vote straight ticket. But I don't trust Nader. I don't know what the Green candidates' platforms are. I could only be persuaded to vote McCain in protest if I knew who his running mate would be -- because McCain is obviously dying. His running mate is going to make a hell of a difference, to me. I won't for him.
However, let precinct captains and Democratic operatives and pollsters know why you're not voting. Say it loud, they screwed Barack.
I agree. I know people have been passing around democrat contact information in somewhat 'unusual' places. I hope that keeps up. People are watching, and they are not happy. They're least happy that it's coming from people they used to highly respect. It's sinking in.
Blacks are being treated as the bottom b*tch -- but if you mention it, you'll get banned
From where? The blog?
I thought you were joking but who knows these days. People are using language as a way to punish peoples thoughts. I run into a lot of people who get all Rutgers on me when my right-wing words fly out my left-wing mouth.
Such an act would destroy Obama's political career and send precisely the wrong message to African-Americans.
Obama has won all segments of the nominating process-- pledged delegates, popular vote and states. His lead is insurmountable, and it's not small either-- he leads by nearly 150 pledged delegates after having won 11 consecutive states, including crucial swing states such as Virginia, Missouri, Delaware, Louisiana and Wisconsin!!!
Do you honestly think that Obama, the candidate selected by popular acclaim and reflected by the popular will, would be enough of a chump to just meekly swallow backroom deals and outright election theft by the Clintons? Let alone the race-baiting???
Obama would destroy everything that he and his movement have worked for by accepting a VP slot under Hillary-- by meekly capitulating even as the true victor of the popular vote and the delegates, he would essentially be validating not only race-baiting (which would utterly preclude any minority from gaining elected office in the future, since we'd be hit by the same sort of campaign), but also outright election theft in backrooms by the Clintons. Overturning the popular will.
Blacks would hate Obama. Latinos who care about racial justice would hate him. And progressive Whites would hate him. And rightfully so. And we would never, ever support such a ticket-- the angry protests and the general strikes would proceed regardless.
Obama isn't stupid, and he knows this. The Kennedys and Dick Durbin aren't stupid either-- they know the Pandora's Box they'd be opening by effectively forcing Obama to the back of the bus like this.
I notice how so many members of the media also distort the MI/FL fiasco by failing to point out the critical detail that OBAMA WAS NOT EVEN ALLOWED TO CAMPAIGN IN THOSE STATES AND WAS NOT EVEN ON THE BALLOT!!! Were the FL and MI delegates seated, then the disenfranchisement of their voters would be extreme, since they would have been denied the opportunity to even vote for Obama in the first place!
Were Hillary to be nominated by such chicanery, this would only expose the corruption at the heart of the Democratic Party, a corruption so severe that the party, frankly, would not be able to survive much longer.
It would be better for Obama, for the Party and the country for Obama to step aside rather than playing third fiddle behind Hillary and Bill Clinton-- who, I'm sure, would be waiting with the political equivalent of unsheathed knives to kill him anyway even if he were "the running mate." (Loyalty to backers is hardly a Clinton strong point.)
Let Hillary lose in catastrophic fashion to McCain, thus delivering the death blow to her campaign tactics and sending the message that they are inexcusable.
Obama should then run for governor in Illinois in the interim, further extend his support base, and then take on McCain in 2012, when-- after nine years of war and catastrophic economic damage-- he would be easily poised for a victory.
I think that Phillip has a very good point-- were Hillary to be nominated under such circumstances, voting for McCain, for once in a rare blue moon, does make some sense, since it further hits home that Hillary has shattered the Democratic Party.
I'm not worried about McCain's SCOTUS justices-- he may be a nutcase on the Iraq War, but the Democrats will still thoroughly control the Senate simply by an artifact of this particular election (far more GOP seats up for grabs). So the Dems will make sure that McCain's judicial appointments are at least moderate and even moderate-to-liberal. Even McCain is cool with that-- he himself has been trashing Alito more than even most Democrats, he wants to be seen as "the consensus President" and so he leans in the direction of justices like David Souter, as he's said in the past. Moderate-to-liberal in fact. The Dems in Congress would block any privatizing of Social Security, and they would also prevent any rushes to war. So I'm not worried about McCain, and while I haven't made up my own mind-- if the nom were indeed stolen from Obama, I could fully support casting a ballot for him to destroy the Clinton machine and send the painful, yet necessary message to the DNC.
In fact, I actually don't see Hillary getting the nomination, she's just much too far behind, and the repugnance of seating MI/FL delegates where the voters didn't even have a chance to consider Obama, would indeed provoke rage beyond recognition. The superdelegates know this, and they're not going to provoke such a rift in the party's coalition.
Again, I suspect Hillary's Plan B anymore-- she resents Obama for snatching away from her, what she thought should be her own coronation, and so she's doing everything she can to poison the well for Obama as the nominee. She's finished politically, the anger against her is too deep, there's going to be an ugly court case against her in October, plus those Clinton library files and the tax returns are going to be showing what likely constitutes criminal activity. So she's finished, but she wants to bring down Obama and the Democratic Party with her.
Like I said, either Hillary's Plan A or Plan B should provoke our furious response.
I agree that I don't want to see riots, but I know that they will take place regardless. When you add in the race-baiting, the obvious disenfranchisement in California, New York and Nevada, the rage is too deep-seated not to have riots.
In fact, my own proposal above is a means to try to divert some of the destructive rage of riots, and channel it toward peaceful, yet firm and extremely devastating protests.
Firm and prolonged protests going well past November, and especially the general strikes-- these would cripple the corrupt system enough to shock people into realizing the ruin at the heart of our system, and the need for major reform. They would also scare away international investors enough that the dollar would suffer a further collapse, making our war in Iraq untenable and forcing the necessary reckoning.
Again, either Hillary's Plan A (theft of the nomination through chicanery-- and I don't care how much she talks up some BS about Obama as running mate) or Plan B (deliberately damaging Obama enough so as to throw victory in the general election to McCain) should be the trigger for the massive, sustained protests and the general strikes. We must stand our ground.
It's more like, as we say in Chicago, an Outfit(Mob).
The party bosses want to win. If they think Clinton/Obama can will (and I believe they do) then that's what it will be.
Kennedy, Durbin, Daley, et al MADE Obama. Obama will get in line, wait his turn, and bring the party together. A woman AND a black man, it's a dream come true for the old, white men pulling the strings.
Are none of you from Chicago?
Neither Ted Kennedy, Durbin, Daley, or such others "made" Senator Obama. IF ANYONE "made" candidate Obama, it was Oprah. Furthermore, King, Kennedy, and ordinary Black folk actually delivered Civil Rights; Johnson basically signed a piece of paper.
OOO
1. Non-voting.
2. Vote Nader.
3. Vote McCain.
All of this talk about a Clinton/Obama ticket is a flirtation to distract Billary's previous race-baiting and current smash 'n grab. I reject and denounce it (LMAO). I think whoever believes it is a "monster". And by the way, Jesse Jackson won S. Carolina in 1984 and 1988.
And what do people think of Rick Perlstein's Apocalyptic Observations? A quote from a young friend of his in a rural town:
"Rick, if the Machine tries to give the Clintons the victory at the convention, I swear to God, Chicago's going to look like a Sadie Hawkins dance. People my age are going to be throwing stones. We all have transportation -- cell phones -- disposable income -- the Internet -- free time -- and Seattle as our example. Part of me is scared of a riot. Part of me isn't. The nomination belongs to Obama. Do you think we're going to let the Democratic Leadership Council take it? "God gave Noah the rainbow sign. No more water, fire next time."
jon
Philip, I really wish there were another option
There is. Obama voters, volunteers and supporters put Billary in the dustbin of history. We ensure people of good conscience stop the smash 'n grab.
Listen, we see the fix is in but let's not quit. We can stop this from happening. I am just being a strategic thinker who is mostly cynical.
also, for the record, i don't think Rick's 'friend' exists, but only because the way I read it Rick was actually plugging his book! through the 'friend'. But that's how it seemed on a first impression. Maybe the friend does exist.
OOO
Dang, Texas will never end this caucus reporting! It is shameful.
"it's something the candidate i support has not done. he has not sought to sow seeds of division among women"
http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2008/02/is-obama-using.html
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/kathleen-reardon/silence-is-assent-what-_b_86827.html
http://www.mydd.com/story/2008/2/13/203015/414
http://fish.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/02/10/a-calumny-a-day-will-keep-hillary-away/
"claws," "you're likeable enough," so-called mood swings, "drinking tea," etc....
you can say a lot of things about obama, but please don't tell me he hasn't exploited and benefited from misogyny and women's self-hate and cattiness in this election. because as a woman who--unlike many women these days--doesn't hate other women, i can assure you that he has.
Nance, I think Hillary has fulfilled every negative stereotype of women. She only pretends to be feminist in order to mobilize women to vote for her.
I am disappointed that women who support her cannot see how she employs racism to hurt other women. What should black women tell their daughters about the race baiting and the negative effect it may have for years to come? Hillary employs any tactic against any group if it will translate to votes...don't you see that? She has single-handedly - during the Primaries - done more to damage the progress women have made. What use is she to us if she is as vicious, cruel, selfish and dishonest and racist as the worst man?
For feminism to mean anything, a woman has to offer something different...sort of like what Barack is offering.
Why Are Hillary Supporters Race-Baiting on Talk Left?
With comments like this:
"I agree, the African American groups in the democratic party are given far too much power and attention."
and this: " that the AAs would bolt the party because "it's their turn" to have the nominee. Excuse me, but I thought a person was supposed to vote for the most qualified person regardless of race, gender, religion, or sexual preference.
If they want to bolt the party I say don't let the door hit you on the way out. But also, where will you go? Will you become a Republican? Or will you form a third party? Or will you just take your marbles and go home and not play anymore?
The AA's are not the only constituency in the Democratic party; in fact, they are one of the smaller ones. So all this talk about their clout, their power, their rights to have an AA as the candidate is beyond pathetic."
and worse to meditate over... i don't know what to say. But I'm glad Unabogie brought it to people's attention.