DISQUS

Jack and Jill Politics: LA Times Puts the Blame For the Failure of The Auto Bailout Where It Belongs

  • pinksun · 1 year ago
    What folks don't understand is because of unions that employees at Honda, Toyota ect. are able to make $23.00 an hour and have health care and vacation time. If the unions you think employers will still give employees those benefits out of the goodness of their hearts? The reason folks don't have to join unions today to get good benefits and safe workplaces is because someone fought and sat in and got they head busted open so they can have those things.
  • whiterosebuddy · 1 year ago
    People in Motown DO understand that.

    It is those Southerners that are confused about unions just like they were about states rights.
  • CPL · 1 year ago
    Michael Moore adds on over at Daily Kos:

    http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/12/12/16...
  • whiterosebuddy · 1 year ago
    Yep, Moore is precisely right:

    " the Senate said, we'll give you the loan only if the factory workers take a $20 an hour cut in wages, pension and health care. That's right. After giving BILLIONS to Wall Street hucksters and criminal investment bankers -- billions with no strings attached and, as we have since learned, no oversight whatsoever -- the Senate decided it is more important to break a union, more important to throw middle class wage earners into the ranks of the working poor than to prevent the total collapse of industrial America."


    I wonder if this will make the rednecks and JoethePlumbers wake the hell up during the midterms and vote all the GOP Senators out that are up for re-election. This is the type of grassroots efforts that should be being put together now, in OH, KY, AL, IN, GA,FL, MS, NC and SC....ANY where there is a GOP senator up for re-election they Need to GO.

    Obama needs a Congress he can work with to help the nation and legislate what the people want NOT what the special interests want.
  • CPL · 1 year ago
    Public Financing of Campaigns at the National Level gets rid of the special interests and neuters the lobbyists.

    Someone needs to ask both sides of the aisles in Congress why come every time Dennis Kucinich or Russ Feingold tries to introduce legislation calling for public financing of campaigns, they get beat down by their own colleagues in true bi-partisan fashion?
  • whiterosebuddy · 1 year ago
    All i know is that if money can flow in from across the nation to unseat Cynthia mcKinney...then we have a model of how to run these GOP out of office in EVERY state.

    We also have a group of folks mad as hell willing to organize and work to push them out.
  • isonprize · 1 year ago
    Time for Michael to make another movie. That seems to be the only way folks pay attention to him.

    This article is ON POINT!!!
  • CPL · 1 year ago
    Mike did that when he made "Roger and Me" - he was predicting this shyt with GM way back in the 90s and was written off as being looney.
  • spirit_55z · 1 year ago
    SENATE REPUBLICANS KILL AUTO BAILOUT BILL!

    Senate Republicans kill auto bailout bill. I'm seriously going to get bumper stickers made with this headline, put one onmy car, and I 'm going to pass them on to ohters.
  • whiterosebuddy · 1 year ago
    The Democrats need to focus their efforts on running someone and sending O'Connell, Corker and Shelby ...back home.

    There is no coincidence about these jerks being opposed 'philosophically' to the bail out that costs only TWO percent of what they paid for TARP. Only TWO percent with a payback unlike the Financial industry where there is no structured pay back.

    The 'righttowork' Southern states are pitting their auto mfgrs vs. the union who pay american wages, health care and provide workers power and rights in their workplace. It looks like Obama is going to have new type of North vs. South...just like Lincoln had...the parallels are scary at times.
  • CPL · 1 year ago
    unfortunately, the Senate is stuck with McConnell for another six years - unless he's caught screwing a Senate page. Corker's due up in 2012 and I think Shelby's up in 2010 - but if the state Democratic parties can't field a viable challenger, it's business as usual.
  • whiterosebuddy · 1 year ago
    A new Civil War is breaking out when it comes to automaking in America, and it was evident in the lineup yesterday of senators for and against bailing out Detroit. Japanese, Korean, and German automakers are now building 18 auto assembly plants in the United States, none of which is unionized. Kentucky (home to Senate Republican Leader Mitch McConnell) already has Toyota's biggest auto assembly plant outside Japan. Tennessee (home to Senate Rep. Bob Corker, who came up with the "chapter 11" bailout amendment which was the basis for an attempted compromise yesterday) houses Nissan's North American headquarters. Alabama (Senate Rep. Richard Shelby) hosts a range of foreign automakers.

    There's no reason to suppose the good citizens of Kentucky, Tennessee, or Alabama are particularly excited at the prospect of handing over their taxpayer money to competing firms and their workforces, especially since almost every one of these states already gave foreign firms big tax-payer supported inducements to come and create jobs there.

    Besides, southern Republican are not particularly enamored with the UAW, which has steadfastly bankrolled Democrats who have taken on Republicans. (The new Congress will have at least six new Democrats from formerly Republican districts, all of whom received at least $40K from the UAW.)

    Corker's compromise -- which he'll push again in the new Congress -- would force the UAW to match the wages of foreign, mostly non-unionized autoworkers in the South. This would essentially make the UAW irrelevant. Why have a union if you can get the same deal without one?

    But Republicans also know that the Big Three and their suppliers are spread out over the battle-ground states of Michigan, Ohio, Pennsylvania, Indiana, and Minnesota. Republicans don't dare give up these states or alienate their citizens. So here's where political compromise comes in.

    read the rest at:

    http://robertreich.blogspot.com/
  • babyming · 1 year ago
    The Detroit auto scene is a mess: both the companies and the union need to change. If they don't, Obama will have this mess to deal with for his entire presidency. Like the Iraw War, it'll just be this terrible thing that's THERE and doesn't go away. I'm unemployed, worried about losing my home, and I'm usually on the side of labor. But this time, I think everyone in the Big 3 American car companies, including the UAW, need to CHANGE, or our economy will continue to have this permanent cloud over it. I really think that every single top Detroit auto executive should lose their job: they've screwed up so much, they're beginning to look like George W. Bush.
  • Micheline · 1 year ago
    That blame lies with the company executives not workers.
  • CPL · 1 year ago
    I need to understand how the UAW needs to change or concede ANYTHING, considering they fight for the right to have their workers paid a livable wage.

    I'd like to recommend "Beijing Jeep" for your reading information. It is a case study of how America grew big eyes and put an auto factory in Beijing, China, and how much difficulty they ran into as a result. It is also the story of how America saw a nation with over 800 million people and saw cheap labor and dollar signs - all without taking into account the Chinese culture; the fact that it operates under Communist rule, and finally, that out of the 800 million people in China - only 25% of that population lived in urban areas where cars could be afforded or needed - not to mention 75% of the nation was rural and the annual income was less than $100 dollars per family.

    All America saw was how to get out from under having to deal with UNIONS - who, for the most part, advocate for humane labor laws, humane working conditions and paying workers a liveable, sustainable wage to support families, which in turn, supports the economy. Trying to do on the cheap decimates the economy and the UAW knows this.

    There has to be balance between work and the economy - when one gets out of kilter (work in the US) the economy suffers when you take jobs from this country and outsource them elsewhere, or undercut your competition into a monopoly. You needn't look further than Wal-Mart; watch the documentary "The High Cost of Low Price" and you'll get the picture and quit harping on how the unions have contributed to this mess, when the reality is that the CEOs got greedy and overreached, mismanaged their resources and are now trying to line their own pockets for personal gain without ever taking into account that their actions have a ripple effect which is now being revealed.

    I also recommend you read "Nickled and Dimed" by Barbara Ehrenreich as well. All of these resources indicate what happens to the American worker when there is no labor union to protect and advocate for their rights as workers.

    And what of the Banking Bailout? IMO, that is far worse because that money was given without no accountability or Federal oversight, and now the Fed refuses to reveal who got the emergency loans. Why are they doing that? Because they can mask the fact that the CEOs will get their bonuses while THEY'RE LAYING OFF THOUSANDS OF WORKERS. If Wall Street were unionized, the CEOs would pay taking the pay cuts and the workers would have been protected.

    I don't believe the UAW needs to concede shyt - its the Auto CEOs that need to give up the private jets and the perks and bonuses. That's what Japanese CEOs do and if their business fails, they will either tighten their belts or fall on their sword - which is what they tend to do in socialist cultures. An American CEO would rather take the money and run - look at what Bush is doing. Eff-Up the economy and leave it for Obama to clean up.

    This nation saw this and voted for this bastard anyway. We got the government everyone ELSE voted for, because I never voted for this bastard, either time.
  • spirit_55z · 1 year ago
    CPL, thanks for the resources that you've listed in your post. I think the source of blaming this mess on hard working folks lies in sheer ignorance of the uninforned.

    It boggles my mind how the average person cannot see how someone leading a company making millions of dollars can run the company into a ditch, and the workers are to blame??!!

    It's like my mother asks me to bake a pie for the family. Once the pie is done, she slices it, and gives every one a slice but me. I'll ask her why I didn't get a slice, and she says, you should've baked 2.
  • whiterosebuddy · 1 year ago
    Exactly...


    .see that is what they call YOU having a 'shytty business model' I say NO way. That is what you call workers getting shafted.
  • spirit_55z · 1 year ago
    Sure you right, whiterose.

    The key to good teachers is to REPEAT, REPEAT, REPEAT!!!

    We're talking different states of conscious here. We gain awareness at whatever level of consciousness we're ready to receive it. So good information bears repeating.
  • 99 Percent Sure · 1 year ago
    The US corporate structure AS A WHOLE is a mess - we've got thieves, scammers and con artists whose MBAs serve as licenses to rob and steal in the executive suites and boardrooms in nearly every entity - banking, investing, insurance, law, accounting, health care, retail, politics, real estate, IT, telecommunications, Congress, the White House (at least until January 20), etc. They are self-serving, greedy, tax-dodging folk of no integrity - few, if any, serve the public - only lining their pockets at the expense of the poor and the middle class.

    Most every industry in the US is ruled with an iron fist from the top, with no consideration for the employees who work their tails off to assist the corporation in making big bucks. Yet employees are under attack at every level within their companies, whether they are blue or white collar. Were it not for collective bargaining through organized labor, we would be a third world country because private sector employers want million-dollar commitment for $10 per hour. Ergo, the rise of illegal immigrant employment. Companies do not want to pay people their fair value for the work performed, so we need unions..

    While it is true that the auto manufacturing execs have managed their industry poorly, so have the banks and most other US industries, yet I don't read about or hear of any hues and cries for them to fail; in fact, our fatuous, stupid, complicit Congress critters bend over backwards to accommodate them.

    The UAW has always made concessions in times of industry trouble, such that there are few concessions that they can make now, except to tear up the collective bargaining agreement..

    Yes, i've said for months now that the purpose of the raking over the coals of the Three Blind Mice is to bust the union before the Employee Free Choice Act is enacted by the Obama Administration. As I see it, the Big 3 made one mistake - if they needed a mere pittance of a $25 or $30 billion bridge loan, they should have asked for at least a $100 billion, and they probably would have gotten some respect from those dildos in Congress, including the Dems.

    These days, people speak of a trillion dollars as a mere drop in the bucket; Congress and the corporate devils don't even flinch when they say 'trillion.' They asked only for what they needed when they should have been asking for much more. Then they probably would have gotten respect, had they gone for broke.

    What the repugs did to prevent GM and Chrysler from collapsing is abominable.
  • whiterosebuddy · 1 year ago
    I am completely with you CPL!! It is the American worker who is getting the SHAFT

    Let's repost that it deserves an encore

    I don't believe the UAW needs to concede shyt - its the Auto CEOs that need to give up the private jets and the perks and bonuses. That's what Japanese CEOs do and if their business fails, they will either tighten their belts or fall on their sword - which is what they tend to do in socialist cultures. An American CEO would rather take the money and run - look at what Bush is doing. Eff-Up the economy and leave it for Obama to clean up.
  • Constructive_Feedback · 1 year ago
    [quote]I need to understand how the UAW needs to change or concede ANYTHING, considering they fight for the right to have their workers paid a livable wage.[/quote]

    CPL - I am thankful that YOU do not have any power over me where your policies can bear upon me.

    If you don't see the RUST BELT and make note of the need for the UAW and other UNIONS to change then you have a big cataract upon your mind's eye.

    You seem to be a person who prefers to 'HOLD HIS GROUND". Even when the fruitful plot of land that you fight for experiences desertification - you pride yourself that you HELD YOUR GROUND with your principles.

    The greatest thing about America is that it is a WIDE, EXPANSIVE MARKET PLACE.

    What you fail to understand is that various evil corporations that had invested hundreds of millions of dollars in physical plant in the various union strong holds of the North had no choice but to acquiesce to the ORGANIZED LABOR during contract renegotiation. These firms made note of the fact that they had not yet received an ROI on their capital investments in the plants and thus they had to yield.

    Fast forward CPL: The plant is End Of Life. The executive management has to make a decision - RETOOL the present plant or BUILD A NEW ONE somewhere else. With the present plant they could introduce automation to the present plant but the UNIONS, seeking job protection would fight it.

    WHAT DID MANY OF THEM DO? THEY WENT SOUTH!! (Read the various accounts about how the domestic automakers and steel makers ventured South during the 60's and 70's as a means of diversifying their options).

    Some of you are more caught up in the aura of unions than you are in the FUNDAMENTAL FUNCTION of unions. I hope that unions are present to represent the best interests of WORKERS. How do you represent a worker that is now UNEMPLOYED due to the framework of demands that you have crafted which ultimately took down the host company.

    You are pro-LIVING WAGES. If you could tell your PROGRESSIVE CAR BUYERS to see out unionized manufacturers and agree to pay extra money - PROBLEM SOLVED.
  • lamh31 · 1 year ago
    Now, why did the Republicans protest the bailout, because they believe in Conservative values. It's certainly not because of the unions, that's for sure. Oh, but wait:

    From Keith Olbermann's blog over at Countdown:

    http://thenewshole.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2008/1...

    Countdown has obtained a memo entitled "Action Alert - Auto Bailout," and sent Wednesday at 9:12am, to Senate Republicans. The names of the sender(s) and recipient(s) have been redacted in the copy Countdown obtained. The Los Angeles Times reported that it was circulated among Senate Republicans. The brief memo outlines internal political strategy on the bailout, including the view that defeating the bailout represents a "first shot against organized labor." Senate Republicans blocked passage of the bailout late Thursday night, over its insistence on an immediate union pay cut. See the entire memo after the jump.

    Well, well, well...
  • CPL · 1 year ago
    REPUBLICANS = FAMILY VALUES (MY ASS)

    I wonder if these bastards could live on welfare benefits and food stamps and see if they were forced, would it change their minds. It explains why there wasn't a hike in the minimum wage for damned near ten years, but these mo-fos vote themselves a raise every year.

    That's a vote that the American People should get - not Congress.
  • Justice58 · 1 year ago
    These selfish Republican bastards have no sympathy for poor people!
  • Constructive_Feedback · 1 year ago
    [quote]I wonder if these bastards could live on welfare benefits and food stamps and see if they were forced, would it change their minds. It explains why there wasn't a hike in the minimum wage for damned near ten years, but these mo-fos vote themselves a raise every year.[/quote]

    CPL - this blog is a cornucopia of rhetoric. Do you mind if I refute you?

    The goal is NOT TO LIVE OFF OF Welfare and Food Stamps!!! Get it?

    Most people receive PAY RAISES not by LEGISLATION but by INCREASING their value so that CONSUMERS OF LABOR will see that it is in their advantage to PAY MORE to retain their services.

    If your local Albertson's raised their prices on you - the CONSUMER - do you not weigh the BENEFIT of the good that they are selling to you against your other options? Is there a price at which Albertsons having crossed would cause you to STOP consuming what they are selling to you and thus you go elsewhere?
  • Constructive_Feedback · 1 year ago
    That convinces me!!!

    Keith Olbermann is the most credible source for news there is!!!
  • D. · 1 year ago
    I think most people recognize that there's no political solution to a business problem, especially this particular business problem.

    We can throw money at the automakers all day, but until they make changes to their practices (making more fuel efficient vehicles, bring on alternatively fueled vehicles, and not cranking out as many SUVs/large trucks), they still won't be able to compete with their foreign counterparts.

    And, since everyone is so insistent on the particular bailout being called a "loan," shouldn't there be some fundamental changes that enure the companies survive long enough to pay it back?

    I was against elements of the banking bailout as well. I don't buy into the meme that organizations are "too big to fail." Failure, last I checked, was still as American as success. Not to mention the fact that we can't afford that bailout, so now my 1 year old and unborn child will be stuck dealing with it.

    This isn't about Big Labor, someone's pension, healthcare, Iraq, or anything of the sort. The Detroit automakers have a shitty business model, and that's the problem. Neither Republicans OR Democrats hold the responsibility for fixing it, or for putting the automakers on life support until they ultimately fail.
  • whiterosebuddy · 1 year ago
    You sound like Hoover with that meme of 'organizations are not too big to fail'. Like Maddow said it was that mindset that made it a GREAT depression instead of a good depression under Hoover.

    Hate to tell you but there is such a thing as 'too big to fail' every banker knows that, as well. The person that owes the bank 25% of their assets on loan is TOO big to fail cause he takes the bank with him. Which is why we need regulations so that investment banks and commerical banks and insurance company can't combine as one to do business like Citigroup and JP Morgan and Lehaman did with the deregulation under Clinton.

    See those regulations were put in place after the Depression and they stood us in good stead for over 40 years until Gramm, Rubin and Clinton dismantled them.

    Detroit doesn't have a shitty business model. Detroit pays their workers an American living wage ALONG with providing health care and pensions. None of those foreign mfgrs provide pensions or health care benefits!

    Anyone who calls health benefits and pension plans a shytty business model are nothing but financial MBA's and wannabe investment shysters thumbing their nose at blue collar workers making a living wage and old folks not being homeless after they agreed to DEFERRED compensation in lieu of wages when the mfgrs asked for concessions.

    Your attitude is elitist and we don't neen corporatist thinking in this economy. It is your mindset that is the shytty business model!!
  • D. · 1 year ago
    None of what you said has anything to do with the fact that what's produced in Detroit is not selling in comparison to its competitors.

    What's more important: maintaining benefits or trying to build a viable industry for the future? We can keep pensions and healthcare all the day long, but if the product isn't selling, the companies STILL fail.
  • ochyming · 1 year ago
    What politics is all about them?

    To be competitive you Need money to invest (will it work? - It is better to try!). That is what governments in Europe are doing, ligislating so for car makers to breathe, in the end for not cutting in the work force.


    It amazes me how an intelligent person cannot distant himself with superfluous beliefs (politics is about working for the people ), when what is in stake is the cogs of the economy itself.
    If the USA car makers went down, Asians car makers will fallow, who gonna buy their cars?


    The truth is, in the future the Big tree will be owned by whether chinese or Indian manufactories.

    You say it has nothing to do with Iraq?
    Are you sure?
    You want to buy a fictitious victory and you cannot lend money so for a bunch of people not loose their jobs?
    You think it will not help, but europeans are doing it, chinese are doing it.

    Of course CEOs in japan does not earn the sum their USA conterparts do, and they have their head facing to the future since the last asian crash.
    Can you guys learn a thing from this crisis?

    I think NOT!

    (Sorry about my poor English anyway!)
  • D. · 1 year ago
    I'm certain. As much as liberals/progressives want every ill we face to be about the money we're "wasting" there, the fact that American cars aren't selling has nothing to do with Iraq.
  • ochyming · 1 year ago
    Sorry, It Does!
    It show that you prefer the hollow dogmas of yr party than to look at reality.

    Money could FIX them!
    Ideas are abound!
    But to implement them you need the green bastard.

    It is not evil that screw things, it is dogma blindness.

    Why european governments are helping USA car makers (Japanese too) and suppliers that has factories in Europe then?

    Economy has its own rules, all of them excludes partisan dogmas.
  • Constructive_Feedback · 1 year ago
    [quote]Like Maddow said it was that mindset that made it a GREAT depression instead of a good depression under Hoover.[/quote]

    WhiteRoseBuddy - so just because Rachel Maddow said it - it must be true about the great depression?

    Hoover did not 'create' the Great Depression. The roaring 20's was a time of great financial speculation (just as the late 90's and mid 2000's were). You can find me NO PRESIDENT liberal or conservative who is going to preemptively throw cold water on an overheated economy. Instead he and the congress are going to BRAG about their genius in having ramped up the GDP.

    The New Deal did not FIX the Great Depression. The country slipped back into a hard recession a few years after FDR came up with his alphabet soup of fixes for the Depression.

    World War II had such a fundamental force of realignment of our entire economy and focus that America grew into an industrial giant, largely because its COMPETITION was a smoldering ash heap. The manufacturing base from the WAR MACHINE which achieved "Full Employment" transitioned into the supplier of manufactured goods for the rest of the world. I just heard today on a financial show that the 1950's was the ONLY decade where there was documented economic growth in America absent any accounting tricks (ie: no trade deficit, no long term debt, no Social Security tidal wave coming our way.
  • spirit_55z · 1 year ago
    Pat Buchanan: Toyota Republicans Killed The Manfacturing Base In America
    By CSPANJunkie Saturday Dec 13, 2008 8:01am

    Heather: Pat Buchanan is correct that the Southern Republicans are doing their best to kill the last of the manufacturing base in this country. Pat Buchanan and Eleanor Clift both agree that Bush is doing the right thing by considering using some of the TARP money to bail out the auto industry.

    Hell has surely frozen over since I heard Eleanor Clift use the words "George Bush is my new best friend". Never thought I'd see the day that happened. Monica Crowley as usual has lots of criticism with little else to offer.

    Video excerpt:

    http://crooksandliars.com/tags/auto-bailout
  • whiterosebuddy · 1 year ago
    Whether it is Candy or Monica..the name Crowley makes my skin crawl when they speak...unfortunately more folks pay attention to the blonde Monica with her white girl entitlement attitude, crossed legs always like she is Paula Zahn delivering news. UGH!!

    I am with Clift on this one, he ain't my best friend but he is doing the right thing.
  • spirit_55z · 1 year ago
    Agree, whiterose. Whatever became of Paula Zahn? I was so glad when they waved the magic wand and made her ass disapear. She must be off somewhere adopting minority children. LOL!

    And yes, the Bush admin. needed to grow some gonads and do the right thing!

    Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid need a WAKE-UP CALL. More on that later.
  • zulu426 · 1 year ago
    Corker makes me wish for 'Dark Sith". LOL. Good ole "Rocky Top" is in need of new leadership.

    The only good thing coming out of this is that the nation is seeing how utterly selfish and disorganized the GOP truly. Their leadership vacuum is being filled by opportunists like junior senators and governors. They have no national strategy and desperately needed to get a "W" on the board. Shortsightedly, they banned together regionally to ultimately damage the economy nationally. If they keep this up, they will continue to be a limited regional party.
  • Nate_Wesley · 1 year ago
    The GOP's hangup over current worker pay is nothing short of political when most people know the problem ISN'T with current workers--it's with paying the benefits of older retired workers. The $3-4 per hour average difference between unionized autoworkers and those without unions is practically nothing in comparison to the health and pension obligations Ford, GM, and Chrysler have do deal with. It's an absurd point to contend, and yet that's what they did.

    I've never been more ashamed that a moron like Richard Shelby (R-Honda/Hyundai/Toyota/Mercedes) represents my state.
  • whiterosebuddy · 1 year ago
    Those retired workers EARNED their compensation. They were willing to give it as a concession for higher wages they agreed to DEFERRED compensation. And now they are to be shafted? In their old age when they need it worse? When they sacrificed for the good of the whole, now they are just going to be stepped on and pushed over the the edge without healthbenefits, pensions and become homeless.

    or worse, those same families that sacrified and agreed to deferred compensations and whose children bore the brunt of those sacrifices will now have to take care of their parents and that will be a great financial cost to them as well?

    Such that each generation pays the price? C'mon now. Each generation is to sacrifice so the next one can move ahead, not get boomerranged with the former generations generosity and sacrifice.

    You right it is absurd and Ihope that Shelby has a horrible penniless old age having lost everything in the new millineum depression he creates.

    Besides, when it comes to regional differences all the midwest and coastal states should simply take back all the federal taxes that places like AL, GA, MS, & TN receive in disproportion to what they pay in. Darn near every one of those states receive far more in federal dollars than they put in. It is time for the country to Squeeze them. When Shelby wants to squeeze the rust belt. He deserves to get it back.
  • Constructive_Feedback · 1 year ago
    [quote]You right it is absurd and Ihope that Shelby has a horrible penniless old age having lost everything in the new millineum depression he creates.[/quote]

    WhiteRoseBuddy - one day I am going to evolve and have a heart grow into my body.

    CAN I ASK YOU A QUESTION? If the company that PAYS THE PENSION goes out of BUSINESS due to harsh market realities....what about "THEY EARNED IT" is true?

    If you say "let's make a GOVERNMENT PENSION FOR EVERYONE, shifting it off of the individual evil corporation - is this not STILL dependent on the solvency of the USA?
  • Constructive_Feedback · 1 year ago
    [quote]I've never been more ashamed that a moron like Richard Shelby (R-Honda/Hyundai/Toyota/Mercedes) represents my state.[/quote]

    Excuse me Nate Wesley - it appears that those people who are actually WORK-KING at the Toyota, Mercedes, Honda and Hyundia plant in his state appear to than Senator Shelby for his stewardship.

    You see WORK - IS KING.

    Where does the GOP have a hang up on "workers pay"? Or did you read this too from Huffington Post?

    The fact is that the UNIONS which attempt to CO-MANAGE these plants prevent these companies from being nimble and responsive to market realities.

    What more is necessary to convince you that YOU are seeking to defend a MODEL that is long gone?

    Again I beg you - TELL YOUR YOUNG PROGRESSIVES to PURCHASE UNION CARS rather than the cars that have impressed them because they are COOL.

    This is a battle between IMAGERY and the SUBSTANCE of WORKERS' WELL BEING.
  • Slave Revolt · 1 year ago
    This is tiresome. However, I will note that white Southern men (not all, of course) don't read books, and are some of the most knee-jerk anti-labor, anti-rights folk in this country.

    Unions are about worker rights.

    Anti-unionism and racism go hand in hand in the USA.

    Shame on these whores for corproate hegemony.
  • Constructive_Feedback · 1 year ago
    [quote]However, I will note that white Southern men (not all, of course) don't read books, and are some of the most knee-jerk anti-labor, anti-rights folk in this country.[/quote]

    Slave Revolt - by what rational construct do you make this case?
    How can you prove this point any more than someone saying "Black people can't manage a baseball team just like they can't swim"?

    Anti-Labor
    Anti-Rights?

    Slave Revolt - If you consider the employment rates for the past 10 years the "racist South" has been one of the fastest growing regions in the United States. How is your claim anything more than a bigoted, ignorant reference?

    Do Black people read books? What framework can you use to bear this claim out? Is it anything more than you having audience with a network of fellow bigots who aren't going to challenge you that you can spew this garbage? I thought that progressives were inclusive and tolerant?

    Anti-Rights?
    Slave Revolt - based on my research on the community that I am most interested in - the Black Community - there are far more CIVIL RIGHTS VIOLATIONS taking place WITHIN THE VARIOUS BLACK COMMUNITIES today than any other area of the nation.

    No these Racist White Southern Men are not jumping into their pickups and doing night raids upon us Black folks. The system of "Witness Intimidation", Low "HOMICIDE CLOSURE RATES" which allow killers to walk free and "Taking the law into your own hands" aggregate to produce an "Anti-Civil Rights Gumbo".

    The problem is that certain bigoted Progressive-Fundamentalists can't accept that unchecked Black on Black crime can be a ANTI-RIGHTS environment. The fact that many loved one's never receive JUSTICE over the murder or assault of their loved one is just TOO BAD.....he got attacked by a person who was the WRONG COLOR for the Civil Rights Actor-vists to come in and exploit for their own greater purposes.

    The worst ANTI-UNIONISM in this nation, Slave Revolt is the RUST BELT REGION of the United States. There are so many POTENTIAL union workers but the aggregate policies of the region chased away the "CONSUMERS OF LABOR". Thus these potential union workers don't have anywhere to actually EXPRESS their union labor rates.
  • Constructive_Feedback · 1 year ago
    Jesus please help this woman for she knows not what she does!!

    [quote]For those readers who insist on continuing to belong to this party; the party of non-inclusion and big government; the party that always brings a recession on its list of Things To Do While in Washington[/quote]

    Christian Progressive-Fundamentalist:

    Do facts matter to you?

    Can we compare the "Rust Belt" where organized labor dominates to the "Racist Non-Unionized South"? Where as the domestic auto manufacturing is strong (while I acknowledge its recent problems) - the Norther UNIONIZED manufacturing operations are on their death bed. I heard an economic report the other day that while Toyota and GM manufactured roughly the same number of cars globally last year - Toyota made about $25 billion in profits while GM LOST about $30 billion. (These numbers are from memory so don't quote me)

    These non-unionized workers at auto plants in the South that you speak of - are they being BEATEN? Are they getting paid $2 per hour and have to work for tips? The truth is that when it comes down to it there are enough LABOR LAWS in place protecting the workers (fought for by the unions) that the UNION has rendered itself obsolete EXCEPT as a loyal vote for your party - and taking membership dues to fill Democratic campaign chests.

    It is frustrating to listen to people attempt to make RECESSIONS a function of the party in power. Many of these same people are unable to look at the PERMANENT RECESSION - otherwise known as Camden, Newark, Detroit, Baltimore, SouthWest Philly, Milwaukee that their favored party governs over.

    In addition, Christian Progressive-Fundamentalist I have little doubt that you were the biggest cheerleader for the "ECONOMIC GOOD TIMES" that Clinton policies brought forth but you are unable to make note of the CONTINUITY of events between then and now. Let me be clear I AM NOT BLAMING CLINTON....I am saying the FINANCIAL MARKET run up during that time has the same players that are pleading for mercy now. This article should assist you. (How The Internet Bubble Broke Rules, Records, Bank Accounts http://www.nettime.org/Lists-Archives/nettime-l...)

    [quote]SHYT on the Economy, SHYT on the Government, SHYT on the American People, and those of you who voted for this ticket, which I still consider a BIGOTED ticket - explain why the hell do YOU KEEP VOTING AGAINST YOUR OWN BEST INTERESTS?[/quote]

    Christian Progressive-Fundamentalist:

    Does the King James version say "Shyt" or "Shyt-ith"?

    My BEST INTERESTS are Education, Safe Streets, Local Economic Development and Healthy Lifestyles. When I view where Black folks live in our highest concentrations it appears that VOTING AGAINST ONE'S BEST INTERESTS is something that is better demonstrated in the Black voting pattern. In fact people are VOTING rather than MANAGING. (How do you explain this graphic? http://withintheblackcommunity.blogspot.com/200...)

    [quote]I guess you would rather starve under ReThug rule, but know while you’re starving and losing your home to foreclosure, and losing your job to outsourcing or cutbacks, that you did your part in trying to keep that N—ER out of the White House. Your racism is ingrained TO THAT POINT[/quote]

    Christian Progressive-Fundamentalist:

    I see more RACISM in the Quasi-Socialist BIGOTS who cast Black people and aggrieved workers on a perpetual OUTWARD fight rather than working to develop ORGANIC infrastructure. If you do a tale of the tape and make note of the fact that despite the growth in the number of districts that YOUR PARTY had dominate control over - the people's PRODUCTIVITY has attenuated. Thus you support policies of REDISTRIBUTION rather than PRODUCTIVITY. I am not sure where you live but for some reason I bet that the poor have been marginalized by the PROGRESSIVE policies that have pushed them out of Oakland, SFO, Chicago, Boston, NYC, Miami and Atlanta.

    [quote]will be going to the CEOs who orchestrated this royal Eff-Up, while these banks are consistently cutting back and laying off tens of thousands from their workforce.[/quote]

    Christian Progressive Fundamentalist - do you consider yourself a hate filled person? Or is your "hatred" in your pursuit of HELPING people justified?

    Where did you get such FLAWED ANALYSIS as above?
    Could you PROVE that these CEOs themselves will be getting this money as you CLAIM?

    The same FINANCE system that brought us the "Clinton-Democratic boom" that you are so proud of is targeted to receive the largest portion of this $700 billion so that they can start LENDING AGAIN and get the economy out of its doldrums.

    The danger of you, Christian Progressive-Fundamentalist is that so much of your analysis is founded on ideologically bigoted and partisan bigoted hatred and anger. Thus in you mission with the CBC Watch you are effectively seeking to have them execute policies that YOU BELIEVE are in the BEST INTERESTS OF BLACK PEOPLE and the working class. In truth they are only in alignment with WHAT YOU THINK.

    As people you favor have taken over our urban cores - these same places have been places of INJURY to the people who remain within.

    These "Racist Southerners" who are snagging up $1 billion auto manufacturing plants that are owned by foreigners and NON-UNION are not the problem. What you need to do is to ask your snot-nosed young PROGRESSIVES who are driving Honda Civics, Scions and Mazda 626s to 'LOOK FOR THE UNION LABEL' and choose to purchase cars from the UNIONIZED CORPORATIONS that you are so desperately seeking to provide government funding to. (How ironic)

    For the record I own 2 American owned vehicles. Both of them have "UAW" stickers plastered on the rear driver's side windows.

    You'd be far more effective if you turned your anger and hatred into PRAGMATIC action within the ranks of the consumer and the workers.

    (Talk to your girl Rikyrah)
  • bigassbelle · 1 year ago
    I was half way into reading this post and thinking right on, and then I thought to check who wrote it and it was, of course, my sister-in-spirit, CPL. Thank you. Adore you. Right on.
  • Constructive_Feedback · 1 year ago
    [quote]All i know is that if money can flow in from across the nation to unseat Cynthia mcKinney...then we have a model of how to run these GOP out of office in EVERY state.[/quote]

    Excuse me WhiteRoseBuddy:

    Have you bothered to track back into the places that have NO REPUBLICAN INFLUENCE?

    Chicago - 50 Aldermen - 49 are Democrats
    Milwaukee - 100% Democrat Run
    Baltimore - 100% Democrat Run
    Philly - 17 city council seats only 3 evil Republicans

    The list goes on and on.
    You all are good at PURGING YOUR ENEMIES. Just not so good at actually ACHIEVING what you are striving for by MANAGING "the good guys" who now sit in your enemy's place.

    Do any of you ever take a step back and consider the after effects of your PURGES?
    When are you going to DEMAND that Progressives actually DELIVER for you?
  • Republican2008 · 1 year ago
    Mr. Liberal CPL,

    Get a life you nut. You and your racist Dixicrats need to wake up. You idiot. Let's give everyone a minimum wage hike, yea, yea.

    Have you ever in your small liberal mind-set ever studied economics. When are businesses have minimum wage increases it forces them to cut jobs and services as well as raise the prices of goods to compensate for the decrease in profit. You stupid nut. Don't you know anything.

    Liberalism is nothing, nothing but a slow road to despotism.
  • CPL · 1 year ago
    Mr. Republican2008:

    YOU'RE IRRELEVANT.

    NOW WHO NEEDS TO GET A LIFE, DIPSHYT?

    Oh, for the record, I'm a woman, and if you read this blog, you would know that.

    But, as I said, YOU'RE IRRELEVANT, and nothing you or your ReThug buddies have to say matters ANYMORE.

    DEAL WITH IT.
  • Justice58 · 1 year ago
    But, as I said, YOU'RE IRRELEVANT, and nothing you or your ReThug buddies have to say matters ANYMORE.



    Lay. it. down. CPL!