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- I think you're right, with this, Myth. I've heard the gamut of explanations, ranging from dudes who did it because they could and men who did it because they thought they had no other...
- That's a total cop out. What do you mean "let you?" Get some self-control and accept responsibility. I don't care what the other person is or isn't doing for you, what you do...
- Steven A Smith makes me really ill!!!!!!
- Violence is never an anwser. Infidelity like marriage is a choice. You choose to marry and you choose to be unfaithful to your spouse. Anyone who says they were overcome by a deep compelling...
- Look at that Sasha's shoes!
1 年 ago
And props to the NY Times.
Please. Make sure this post gets as much exposure as possible.
1 年 ago
and while we're looking at john mccain's associates, this is his "spiritual guide," a complete fucking tool, rod parsley:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tViqufbk7I8
that clip is good for a laugh. the quiver in his voice as he utters the word sssoooooddddoommmmmyyyyy is hysterical. and when he starts wagging that finger? i'm on the floor.
i am happy. i think my candidate's going to get past this.
1 年 ago
Thank you and goodnight!
1 年 ago
Everything about this campaign has been a double standard. Starting with the fact that if Obama was where the Clintons were now, he would have been forced out of the race.
F*ck The Clintons, F*ck John McCain and F*ck Wright for being a trifling narcissist. He probably figures that he made Obama and that he can take him down too.
I will repeat this everytime I post, if Clinton gets the nomination, I will change my voter registration from Democrat to Independent the very next day. And I will either stay home in the fall (most likely), leave the President vote blank or write in Obama.
1 年 ago
this is an argument I frequently have with other white people in online forums.
It isn't just prominent black people that are held more accountable. All black people are typically held to a higher responsibility (by white people) for any one black person's comments than any white person thinks himself accountable for any white person's comments. As in: why don't they "do something" about Sharpton or [pick a name] when it never occurs to them that they feel no responsibility to "do something" about Hagee, or [pick a name].
This probably isn't news to a lot of people visiting here.
Just my wine drinkers rant. Thanks for the comment section.
scooter
1 年 ago
It sounds like it might be a welcome addition to MSM.
1 年 ago
Here it is, people calling Rev. Wright out for being selfish while Obama's response was everything selfishness is made of with his eagerness to please and appease. Selfishly, Obama and a number of his supporters, obviously, felt like his bid... HIS BID for president (remember, he's not running for president of Black America - i.e. to necessarily represent or promote Black people's issues and concerns)... He obviously felt that his bid for president had to be bought at the expense of Rev. Wright and even his own wife.
I have a serious issue with Black people in 2008 who are so quick to sacrifice other Black people and even themselves at the altar of White acceptance. All the Noble Negro and other rationales for "playing the game" fall short and flat with me. People rightly criticize Rev. Wright for HOW he said what he did in the NPC Q&A; session AND I rightly see reason to criticize Obama for HOW he's been so willing to concede the double-standard and quick to denounce Rev. Wright and Min. Farrakhan whenever he's been asked to BY HIS ENEMIES!!
The whole sorry drama featured both Obama and Wright playing their roles. Wright became that "crazy uncle" Obama dismissed him as and Obama was willing to use Min. Farrakhan for personal gain. Simply put, there was no reason for him to say anything about Farrakhan in his reaction to Rev. Wright.
This self-sacrifice narrative has got to go. Somehow, after all that time in Rev. Wright's church, the whole idea of Afrocentricism was lost on Barack Obama (and I've defended Obama so much I've been labeled an uncritical supporter of Obama).
On the Farrakhan issue... according to reports, Obama was at the Million Man March.
END OF STORY.
1 年 ago
1 年 ago
Presidents don't issue security clearances. Minor point of contention, but that was my job in a past life. :)
1. McCain has said repeatedly that he believes Obama doesn't share Wright's views. Where's the race baiting in that?
(Now, having said that, McCain can't control what people outside the campaign do, i.e. the NC GOP. The beef should be with them, not the McCain campaign)
2. McCain sought the Hagee endorsement because Hagee is a prominent Christian conservative, and he needed help among that demographic. McCain said himself that he did not agree with all of Hagee's views.
3. No one's saying McCain "excercised magically superior judgement." However, he did have the foresight to distance himself from Rev. Hagee's more extremist views the day after receiving his endorsement.
Obama had to backtrack and do something he should've done-at a minimum-on March 18th, or as soon as the Wright story broke.
Did he do that? No, he tried to put Wright's statements into "context." I'm sorry, but how do I now know that he's not going to try to put "the occupying regime (Israel) must be wiped off the map" into context, or try to explain it away?
1 年 ago
Unlike Senator McCain, Senator Obama is a 'blank slate', who has a thin resume.
"For someone who has devoted his adult life to public service (as he describes himself), he has had almost no impact on his world. The grants that he doled out on behalf of the Annenberg fund would still have been issued to the same people.
The bills that he signed on to in the Illinois state Senate would have passed, or failed to pass, had he never been elected.
The United States Senate would have enacted or failed to enact the same laws had Senator Obama never been elected."
1 年 ago
Afrocentrism has limits in a pluralistic society. And the need to paint people as your enemies is is contrary to Obama's worldview, Afrocentrism be damned.
Quite frankly, I'm tired of self-professed race people. There, I said it. Anyone who ever supported/defended Obama or who was drawn to his message in the first place and who thought he was going to go out of his way to speak for Black people to all non-Black people was delusional.
Barack Obama is a courageous man who happens to be an ambitious politician. If you expect him to ignore the political realities of his campaign, then you will be disappointed by everything that he does.
Throwing the baby out with the bathwater may leave you clean, but it will also leave you alone.
1 年 ago
http://www.motherjones.com/news/feature/2007/09/hillarys-prayer.html
Angela frequently requests that we look into the family.
I read this article about Hillary's faith, religious practice and association with the "Family".
This is worth reading and I hope you guys post about this.
Lately it has been suggested that Hillary is triangulating, but this article provides that she is really being true to her conservative religious beliefs that are more in line with evangelical christians.
This is a must read.
1 年 ago
we have posted about The Family, including linking to that very piece in the post prior to this one asking if Hillary will now be dragged forward for her connection to this strange religious group.
thanks for being such an active member here.
peace
1 年 ago
Well said.
Obama supporters cannont speak to the issue of Obama's judgment in any credible way, because Obama is an enigma in this area.
The main reason Obama finally cut the ties with Wright was because he said that Obama was saying and doing what he needed to do to get elected.
Wright is not the first to say this.
This from pro-Palastinian blogger Ali Abunimah:
"The last time I spoke to Obama was in the winter of 2004 at a gathering in Chicago's Hyde Park neighborhood. He was in the midst of a primary campaign to secure the Democratic nomination for the United States Senate seat he now occupies. But at that time polls showed him trailing.
As he came in from the cold and took off his coat, I went up to greet him. He responded warmly, and volunteered, "Hey, I'm sorry I haven't said more about Palestine right now, but we are in a tough primary race. I'm hoping when things calm down I can be more up front." He referred to my activism, including columns I was contributing to the The Chicago Tribune critical of Israeli and US policy, "Keep up the good work!"
Given his historically close relations to Palestinian-Americans, Obama's about-face is not surprising. He is merely doing what he thinks is necessary to get elected and he will continue doing it as long as it keeps him in power."
1 年 ago
Jack
Priceless.
1 年 ago
Talk about a gullible populace.
Unreal.
Here's my problem with Rev. Wright's worldview: it's rigid.
As brilliant as he is, his vision hasn't evolved.
For him to say that Louis Farrakhan is like E.F. Hutton and that all Black Americans listen when he talks is ludicrous from two perspectives.
Who the hell knows who E.F. Hutton is? Only those of us of a certain age who remember those commercials in the 70s and 80s. Ask the college students who are engaged in this process for the first time who E.R. Hutton is and note the empty look on most of their faces. E.F. Hutton failed before most of them were even born.
And secondly, Louis Farrakhan's import among Black people outside of the Nation of Islam is just not what it might have been back in the day.
I pay no attention to Louis Farrakhan. Never have; never will. His worldview is not my cup of tea so I don't pay him any mind.
Rev. Wright doesn't speak for me, he can't explain me, he doesn't know me.
And that's why Obama was so angry. Wright was trying to tell America that Obama, despite his own words, saw the world just as Wright sees it and was therefore questioning his integrity and casting more doubt over Obama for those who already had it.
Wright himself said that Obama might have to distance himself from him when he ran for office. Obama, instead, put him on his faith committee. If that's not an expression of loyalty to a man that Obama likely considered a father figure, then I don't know what is.
And how is Obama repaid? With a slick and harmful attack on Obama's character. Even when Obama first denounced Wright's remarks, he didn't attack Wright's character. Wright has behaved like a spoiled child. And it hasn't been pretty.
Wright doesn't want to let go of the past and all of its battles. That's what this entire presidential campaign as turned into: a fight between past and future. Wright was a present association that could link Obama to the past, and the culture wars of the aging baby boomers could continue to be waged, projected onto the "empty suit" who's threatening to help us move beyond all of that.
How dare Obama. How dare he. He hasn't struggled. Hasn't paid any dues. Who does he think he is to come up in here and snatch victory from the fruits of somebody else's labor?
That's precisely how progress happens. And Obama, for all his faults, has explicitly honored the struggle.
Wright, for all of his intellectual brilliance, clearly doesn't have the spiritual clarity to see what's happening right in front of his eyes, and if by chance he does, then he doesn't have the courage to put down his armor and let the past go.
1 年 ago
1 年 ago
I was livid...but as this article so eloquently put it, its to be expected.
1 年 ago
Funny how many in the Republican party was booing and ripping McCain a new one until they realized this is what they are stuck with, so many did the politically expedient thing to do and that's support him. Not to mention he pandered to the hold outs by doing a bow face on issues, not too long ago he did or didn't agree with.
Politically expedient not-so- straight talking McCain.
*sighs*
Now you and d are saying Obama wants to wipe Israel off the map.Why, oh well because he may see both sides of the issue in regards to Palestine sovereignty. I guess you needed something to gloss over Clinton's statement that she WOULD wipe Iran off the map.
How transparent.
Next you'll both be telling us that Obama's basketball playing means he is predisposed to cheat on his wife , rape white women and get busted for drugs.
Can't wait till desperate Clinton and her Republican counterparts hunt down Obama's ex girlfriend from way back and make those oh so yummy race baiting commericials. Nothing like touting out a white woman and black man hugged up to scare the masses.
Gimme a break!
1 年 ago
My biggest problem with the black politicians who support Sen. Clinton is not that they're supporting the white candidate. My biggest problem with them is that they all say the same thing: I'm being loyal to Sen. Clinton. They helped me in the past. I gave my word I would support her.
I think for some voters who claim they don't know Obama--which I'm still stumped over because all you've got to do is Google the brotha--this sheds light on what kind of guy he is.
1 年 ago
Actually, the president of Iran made the statement about Israel. My point is that if Obama's actions/speech about Wright are any indication, he's going to be doing a lot of backpedaling when dealing with the terrorists/rouge states with which he wants to sit down and talk with.
As Anon 6:27 said, Obama is acting like a normal politician...which kind of flies in the face of his campaigning on "change."
That's not necessarily a bad thing. One of the positives that can be taken from the Wright saga is that Obama's "innocence"/naivete (whichever you want to call it) is gone. He grew up a little bit because of this.
1 年 ago
1 年 ago
"For someone who has devoted his adult life to public service (as he describes himself), he has had almost no impact on his world. The grants that he doled out on behalf of the Annenberg fund would still have been issued to the same people."
Give me a freakin' break. The Woods Fund is one of the few progressive foundations in Chicago. Maybe the Annenberg monies would have gone to the schools and organizations that would have received these funds from another foundation. But what's your point?
The Woods Fund Board of Directors is a group of folks who are active in change in the Chicago metropolitan area. Whether it be education, social services, HIV/AIDs, incarceration or civil rights for all, these folks are "in the struggle" (as a certain generation may call it).
So, yeah, Obama did change the social and political landscape by being on that Board. He brought some added information and opportunities to look at other organizations and their work and how to impact large numbers of folks.
As for your ideas about his IL legislative career, I think you better take a sharper look. Obama, just in the ways that his campaigns were organized, was different. He had the machine support (from some) and the loyal opposition support. He did manage to build a coalition of folks that proved to be quite interesting for his Senate seat race. So, that's a test of where the rubber meets the road.
His legislative record has changed lives and I encourage you to do the research. You and I must be living on different corners in Chicago. This planet is in need of some leadership and it needs to start now. Obama has the mettle.
1 年 ago
MSNBC resident Negro Pastor Joe Watkins was on this morning setting the standard for how Negro Preachers should act(meek), think(don't complain or criticize) and feel(everything is just lovely).
What were Wrights' "sins" according to the media and Obama?
1. Claiming the Government is responsible for infecting African Americans with HIV.
2. Praising Farrakkan.
3. Saying Obama is policitican.
So, So, and So. Reverend Wright is an American and can say whatever he wants to say and believe whatever he wants to believe. I believe Reverend Wright over the mainstream media anyday. The media let us be lied into a war.
1 年 ago
The problem with many whites and particularly those bullshit media pundits like Tweety Matthews, paleo-racist Buchannan, Limpballs, O’lielly, Sean Handjob and that lil bitch Tucker Carlson…and even some racist liberal pundits; they don’t have to offer a insightful or critical review of all facts and aspects in their “privileged” perspective. White privilege maintains a certain and peculiar pattern of assumptions. Father Phleger, the white Catholic priest that Faux News interviewed and didn’t air nationally said something quite disturbing but true. “If a black man speaks against the wrongs of this country, he is considered unpatriotic, anti-american…when a white man speaks out about the wrongs of this country, he’s being critical..” I read the blogs, liberal and conservative, and there is a peculiar line of thinking about any comments made by Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton and now Rev. Jeremiah Wright. They media portrays them as nothing more than unwarranted complaints from old leftist black radicals who are somehow looking for fame, media exposure or opportunity to get on their soapbox and stir up shit. Rev. Wright spoke truth to power in his sermons and to characterize him as some kind of racist, America-hating black man is a useful deception to maintain that peculiar divisiveness within the body politic. In context, Rev. Wright had every right to defend himself against those hateful and deceitful characterizations by a media that has become nothing more than a tool for corporate/state-sponsored propaganda. Those blacks (Cynthia McKinney, Harry Belafonte, Rev Wright, Louis Farrakhan, etc.) who still have the balls to speak out against injustice and inequality in this country are ALWAYS label as outside the “mainstream” and anti-American. Because symbolism plays such a subtle but profound role in shaping the American mindset, Obama’s denunciation of Wright was necessary in proving himself worthy of white America’s vote. And even after they played the tried and true willie lynch type, self-hating mindfuck...Barry won't get the brass ring.
This nation has become a caricature much more profane than anything Pastor Wright could ever said…
1 年 ago
Rev. Wright Swiftboating turning Republicans into Democrats
If it's true, backlash is a bitch.
1 年 ago
You got the wrong guy. I have routinely defended Obama against the ridiculous expectations some people try to place on him. Obama did indeed suggest that Wright was his "crazy uncle." That was what he said in his "media blitz" where he tried to distance himself from Wright when the video clips first caused this 'firestorm.'
http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/Story?id=4443788
My stance against Obama now is about the narrative I spoke about. And it's Obama's narrative that is as rigid and problematic as people perceives Wright's to be.
Again, Obama reportedly was right there at the Million Man March. So his reaction to what Wright said about Farrakhan is just like his bs narrative that Wright's view of America is outdated. Again, Rev. Wright duly noted how "governments change."
My problem is Obama has responded to thing Wright has said in a DISHONEST fashion AND Obama dissed a whole "generation" of people who don't share his rigid, MAKE BELIEVE views about his beloved country...
Obama tried to claim that Wright "spoke as if" things hadn't changed. That's a bold face lie and an inability for him to let go of his problematic narrative re: America the beautiful. Somehow he can't reconcile his own comments about "quiet riots" and the "empathy deficits", etc., etc.
This is all about the narrative.
And let me make this perfectly clear to you... Don't you ever approach me with all that "if you think" stuff. The problem is Obama can't let go of the internal battles in the Black community over the narrative.
He can compromise, concede, genuflect and outright jump the chance to "reach across the aisle" when it comes to OTHER people.
1 年 ago
But I also take issue with a lot of it. (And I reiterate: Wright didn't only speak truth to power. He also spoke a lot of outdated BS. And despite the Tuskegee Experiment, I find it ludicrous that any intelligent person who has done his/her research could believe that a human being created a RETROVIRUS, but digress once more....)
Obama didn't denounce Wright because the media bullied him into it. He denounced Wright because Wright attacked his integrity and character in open court.
For all our complaining about the MSM, when are we going to turn off the television? When are we going to write down the networks' advertisers and start boycotting their products?
Complaining about racism won't change it.
1 年 ago
And I'll come at you however I damn well please.
That's all.
1 年 ago
1 年 ago
Exactly.
Is Obama a typical politician or not?
Being perceived by voters in this way could be very damaging to him.
Another problem for Obama is the common thread running through Obama's personal and political relationships.
Critics will say Wright/Ayers/Dohrn/Michelle/Khalidi are all of an 'activist, left-wing, America sucks' worldview.
Obama's opponents are poised to attack with Ayers as soon as Wright fades from the spotlight.
Again he will be forced to rationalize, contextualize, distance and denounce his Ayers connection.
If these associations do not reflect his views, or if they do run contrary to what he is all about, then why does he continue to stay associated with them?
Does he deep down, in some way believe what they espouse or represent? Is he only distancing himself now because white, blue-collar workers don't like their presidents associating with 'radicals?'
These are legitimate concerns. Maybe not for supporters here, but to voters in the middle, they are.
Questions will continue to be raised about Ayers & Dohrn, because they have not yet been fully answered or explored. And I'm sure Tony Rezko and communist poet Frank Davis will be thrown at him as well.
Associations that were politically helpful to Obama at the beginning of his political career, have now become liabilities.
Obama is supremely naive. He is the product of the 'left wing' of 1960s culture and no matter how hard he tries to rationalize, contextualize, distance or denounce his ideological roots, it is truly who he his.
Trying to build a bridge from the far left of the Democrat party to Main Street USA is proving to be more difficult that he anticipated as he tries to run away from himself.
1 年 ago
Saying all that to say, every time Obama is forced to get on his knees and kiss the ass of white america, he diminishes his standing in the minds of many African Americans. As I have said before during many of his unscripted statements when he parses every word to try and filter out some meaning that might offend white people, the tortured looks on his face as he tries to answer some of the most offensive, insulting questions that other candidates are not asked.
How much of his soul is he willing to give up? The much scarier proposition for me is, is this the real Obama we are seeing as every day he must genuflect to white people to receive their support as they happily announce and by saying they I mean so-called progressive whites as well, who smugly state that Obama has finally denounced Rev. Wright. Is this is what we truly want as a strong black man who over the last month time and time, has allowed his backbone to bend. How far will he go, before he loses all self respect for himself and in the eyes of African Americans?
1 年 ago
Will he do the right thing, are once again bend to the will of white people who would utter the words that he is being too cozy with Black folks?
If his conduct during the last few weeks is any indication, folks we maybe in trouble if you think you can look to this man to govern in a way that will be fair, depending on whose definition of fair we are using.
Exactly, what was divisive, outrageous, offensive to the point that now Obama denounces this man?
What will his white friends have him do the next time somebody, something or whatever offends their sensibilities, no matter how true in order to soothe their hurt feelings so they can return to their entitled comfrot zone of not seeing what they don't want to see? How far will you go Mr. Obama, how far?
School me, please.
1 年 ago
Obama was most offended by Wright claiming the Obama is just a politician.
1 年 ago
I think Obama wants/wanted to be different. He's had moments where he's transcended what politics is, and given a vision of what it could be.
Problem is, current reality is smacking him in the face.
I don't think he really expected that his personal connections would be dug into as much as they have. That's a result of being relatively new to the political scene.
He has been naive. I don't think we will see that again.
Reality is, as much as we (in the conservative arena) try to spin the Ayers connection, there's not a whole lot more that Obama can say about it. Let's be honest: Obama was a kid when Ayers was out causing trouble. Ayers seems to have reformed-to an extent-and is apparently a good member of his community. Fine, fair enough....yes, it looks bad, but the country was built on second chances.
Wright is a different issue. Not only is he unapolegetic, he's already said he's going to throw Obama under the bus if he's president.
Here's my hypothetical: if this Wright snowball keeps picking up speed, does Obama decide that this isn't a game he wants to play and drop out? And if so, what does that say about these connections as a larger issue? Then the questions about whether he really believes this liberal, extremist agenda become even more relevant. And then, how does that bode for his reelection to the Senate...or does he even stand for reelection?
1 年 ago
That is exactly where I am. At some point, I think you have to show that you will not bend. He has been---for the most part--like a thin reed in a strong wind swaying but never breaking.
Its like his speech on race was that "enough is enough" moment. But now it seems to be tipping from "Drive and Gumption to Win" to "Desperation to be accepted and win"
As he turns up his voice ever louder to "denounce, renounce, repudiate" any and everything, I am concerened about when and what will make him have another "enough is enough" moment or if he finally break to the traditional politics to win.
At the end of the day, if he does succeed what has it cost him and will it be worth it.
The same stands--but with much more gravity if he doesn't.
1 年 ago
::
This is just cynical and divisive language to me.
Lest we forget, Obama was raised by white Americans.
I guess we've circled back to Obama isn't "Black enough" again.
Identity politics is for the birds.
When someone attacks your integrity, you don't have to be on your knees kissing anybody's ass to separate yourself from that person.
1 年 ago
Thanks for responding. I guess the post was before I found you.
1 年 ago
Sometimes the real truth hurts Craig, and people who don't want to confront real truth resort to clinging to old bromides of cynical and divisive.
Yes, it might be cynical from my world view of having being raised in the reality of being Black in America, but divisive? How in the hell is it divisive to speak truth no matter what, are did I offend your sensisbilities of transcending race?
Geez, how much more of this do African Americans have to suffer in order to be acceptable and not cynical and divisive?
Divisive my ass.
1 年 ago
Don't put words in my mouth.
The better question is,
Does Obama have a backbone?
1 年 ago
You have once again let certain people in our society and on this forum bait you against one another.
That's an issue I'm concerned about amongst my Black fellowmen and women.
While you are fighting over does Obama have a backbone or not, the Republicans, Clintons and everyone else who HATES us are sitting back laughing.
They will have won if this continues. Is it no suprise people like spineless anonymous are on here day after day trying to interject doubt in the minds of black Barack supporters after all the reports of Clinton losing nearly all of the Black vote.
Guess where we will be in the end? The same place we've always been...in the back of the bus.
1 年 ago
Once again, we agree.
I am witnessing here-though on a smaller scale than what's to come-the implosion of the Obama candidacy.
And, honestly-at least to me-it's kind of sad to watch. Someone should've seen this coming.
1 年 ago
With the help of his staff, made up of mostly white folks who have cautioned him on how to approach white "working class" people at the expense of black folks, which unfortunately he has done what Hillary had-- taken it for granted, is now faced with the realization of hard, cold, mean politics. There are choices you have to make, many of them very unpleasant, unfair, and sometimes painful -- if you want to win.
This realization has hit Obama squarely in the face. It's not us, we are just witness to what the corporations with all their resources including the so called mainstream media are conspiring to belittle and diminish this man. He will either be seen by white folks as the angry black man if he defends himself too much, or he hasn't manned up enough to defend himself in the eyes of black folks.
HE, HE, HE, has allowed via his handlers trying to walk that narrow line, to have himself painted into an unwinnable corner. Its not us, and certainly not me, as I look on painfully aware that no matter in which way this man turns, be it fair or not, he has to make stomach churning choices I dare say he does not want to make.
The implosion does not have to happen if Obama knows what he has to do. Stand up and call a stop to all the BS.
1 年 ago
1 年 ago
"The Rev. Jeremiah Wright would be happy to see Barack Obama's presidential campaign derailed because the pastor is fuming that his former congregant has "betrayed" their 20-year relationship,The Post has learned.
"After 20 years of loving Barack like he was a member of his own family, for Jeremiah to see Barack saying over and over that he didn't know about Jeremiah's views during those years, that he wasn't familiar with what Jeremiah had said, that he may have missed church on this day or that and didn't hear what Jeremiah said, this is seen by Jeremiah as nonsense and betrayal," said the source, who has deep roots in Wright's Chicago community and is familiar with his thinking on the matter.
"Jeremiah is trying to defend his congregation and the work of his ministry by saying what he is saying now," the source added."
1 年 ago
We agree on that.
1 年 ago
Then you might have an idea of how Obama's support is going to come tumbling down. More importantly, you'll see that in enough time to do something about it, rather than continue to fight amongst yourselves.
Y'all know I have beefs with Obama. But I'd much rather McCain face him in the general election and run the risk of losing, than be handed the presidency because half the country won't vote for Clinton.
Kill the infighting, people. It's not helpful to your cause.
1 年 ago
You know what pains me the most? Not that Obama's supporters are contentious, but that a Black man is out to sabotage the presidential candidacy of a Black man.
I don't know Obama's attendance record at his church, nor do I care. Is it possible he didn't hear the rants that have caused all the conflama? Of course it is. Is it possible that he heard them and is lying? Of course it is.
But Wright said himself that people don't always remember what their preachers preached the week before. I've been a member of my church since I was baptized as a baby, but I haven't attended it on a Sunday morning for 22 years. I still get the bulletin, which I don't read, and I still send money every now and then. In short, I'm a member of a church and I haven't heard a sermon in 22 years.
People who claim that Obama sat in a pew for 20 years every Sunday are making assumptions. And if a campaign is going to be derailed by the minister of that church for whatever reason, then that ministers isn't being a Christian.
Whatever happened to forgiveness? Why engage in ruin? If Wright wants to speak truth to power, but is willing to derail Obama because he's just a politician who betrayed him while not saying a SINGLE WORD about how the Nixons have race baited and race baited and race baited and race baited and declared the Black vote meaningless, then, yeah, I question his motives from a place of pessimism and resentment.
Obama is running for president so the question about who he is remains legitimate.
But who the hell is Rev. Dr. Jeremiah Wright, Jr.? That's what I want to know. Given his behavior over the past few days, I haven't a clue.
1 年 ago
Thank You
And in all this talk about Wright and what have you we miss a very salient point: This man, who has done more for this country and his people than many, many people, has been vilified, denounced, rejected and made to look like a crazy old fool in the media and at times by someone he considered a son.
He has every right to defend himself, his church and his beliefs. Anyone suggesting otherwise is a fool.
Hickman,
You just don't understand. to dismiss Wrights beliefs is to dismiss the beliefs of much of Black America across generations. NQuest, Squarpeg and Anonymous above have it right.
I don't have a problem with Obama not having the same views as Wright. I don't share Obama's Kum-ba-ya view of America. Unlike him I am Black first and American second, but I RESPECTED the man and his beliefs. Now, not so much.
And you keep talking about Obama's right to defend himself against attacks against his integrity, where are Wright's rights to do the same thing?
His integrity was questioned. He's defending himself. So Obama's integrity is the only one that matters since you agree with his world view and not Wright's?
1 年 ago
I'm Black too. Just proves we aren't a monolith.
I don't have a problem with Wright defending himself. Nor have I said so explicitly or insinuated otherwise. But he's not only defending himself, and that's why I criticize him.
This is what I believe: We have the power to dream our reality. I know racism exists. I simply choose not to believe that everything is motivated by it.
I grew up in Milwaukee, the Selma of the north, as historians called in during the Movement, smack dab in the inner city. I went to a parochial school that had no white students and no Black teachers.
I love my hometown because of its history of social struggle and turmoil.
I know oppression. I was one of the Black men in Boston who was pulled over, thrown up against a building and searched and abused in the wake of the Carol Stuart murder debacle.
I now live in Maine, the second whitest state in the Union depending on which census report you read. I'm one of 10 Black people in my town. At the grocery store, white women don't take their purses out of their shopping carts when they see me coming down the aisle.
The same can't be said in Milwaukee and Boston.
Do I know why this is? I can't say for sure, but I'd venture a guess that since white people have no reason to be racially polarized, since there aren't many black people around, since they don't see news reports that feature criminals who happen to be Black and male at the top of every local news cast, perhaps there is simply less fear of the Black man.
Maybe that's also why Obama wins so convincingly in predominantly white states.
I don't know.
What I do know is that good people who do great work can also falter.
I have no problem with fair criticism of Obama. I have my own.
But Rev. Wright is not a sacred cow. I find his fire and brimstone preaching a turn off, even though I can also honor his enormous intellect. Can also honor that many Black people are drawn to him just the same. I find his racial polemic uninspiring and counterproductive. Can also understand that folks see him as speaking truth. Can also see that he had been caricatured unfairly by the media.
But I don't understand why he showed out the way he did at the National Press Club. I agree with Obama: he caricatured himself. And for what? And that is my main beef with him at this moment. I said it before: when he was asked a question about Mrs. Nixon and McCain, he said he didn't come here to talk about politics. But he had no problem answering political questions about Obama.
Why? I have no idea.
We can agree to disagree about Obama, about Wright and about anything else. And I will apologize for my participation in the in-fighting today. I don't know anyone here, so I have no right to make personal attacks on anyone. For that I'm sorry.
But Rev. Wright isn't beyond reproach just because he served the country, just because of his wonderful ministries, just because he speaks truth to power.
And Obama isn't necessarily caving to the wishes of white people because he separated himself from Wright.
It seems to me that a personal war is being waged in public between two brilliant Black men and that is what pains me.
1 年 ago
let the yelling begin.
1 年 ago
Personally my opinion is not that people here and elsewhere do not have a right to voice their opinions and concerns. All I'm saying is that the bigger picture seems that we are all being manipulated. We are working on emotional fumes, which is clouding our outlook on what overall needs to happen. I'm guilty of the same at times but I have a wise friend that tells me..."honey take a step back and see where we are right now".
So that's all I'm trying to do is take a step back and regroup. Focus on what we can do and what we need to accomplish. I say we because that is what Senator Obama has been saying all along. It is we that have the power. As long as we keep telling ourselves we don't then we'll never get to where we want to be.
Well to those who care, I'm all for organizing to send a clear message to the DNC that Black Americans are indeed Americans and our votes count as much as anybody. We are consumers, tax payers and all the rest that make up this country.
Our votes count and we will not stand by and let them continue to place the importance of one constituency over another, while doing nothing for any group besides giving empty lip service.
Sorry if I'm soapboxing right now but I'm proud to say that I'm idealistic even in my most pessimistic moments I can stop and we can have a different world.
As history has shown the bad it has proven the above statement as well.
1 年 ago
1 年 ago
I never questioned whether you were Black or not. And I said "many" not "all."
We aren't a monolith, but there are enough Black folk who feel the way Wright do to make their points valid.
They are just a valid as the "white resentment" that Obama seek so hard to assuage.
1 年 ago
I constantly get asked to show my I.D. when I use my CC, although I frequent the same stores and people see me everyday. However I'll stand behind a white customer and not one time will they be asked to show their I.D.
I was also harrassed by the police years ago (in another state) while on my way to the movie theater with my ex husband. They had the nerve to insinuate that I was a prostitute. Because a white man could not possibly be dating much less married to a Black woman!
Silliness, they pulled us over simply due to racial profiling because we had not violated any traffic laws. They humiliated me on the side of a busy intersection by making me get out of the car and stand behind it while flashing lights in my face.
I know how racist cops work and let me tell you, that's not the only thing I've dealt with in my life along those lines. However no matter what experiences we all may share, the point is that, as you said...we are not monolithic. We have different opinions and different ideas on how to tackle the issues we face.
I respect that.
1 年 ago
you make a good point.
It would be amusing to see African styled clothing made with star and stripe print...and I think it would shut the racists up.
1 年 ago
real quick point: nothing will shut the racists up. they are racists. the will retrofit any rationale over their preexisting reasoning.
i'm not weighing in on craig's suggestion, but i think this is a point we often miss in our political tactics. do something if you believe it will make a difference or simply because you believe it to be right. doing something so your most die hard opponent thinks favorably of you is futile. they'll still hate your ass but will make up a new reason :)
1 年 ago
If the ass fits, so be it!
At least I stand up to my assness, does Obama?
And will defend my assness any day of the week. I would say I have an ass backbone.
1 年 ago
Amen! And the same thing is happening across white evangelical America. If McCain thinks that Hagee can deliver those precious votes, he should take a look at Christians on college campuses today. Many of them would easily end up Barack supporters.
It's been a long time coming, but a change is gonna come.
1 年 ago
I am not an Obamaniac, and am obviously frustrated at his willingness to appease the "main stream" community at the expense of Reverend Wright. We will disagree on this issue to no end. Call me an Ass if you wish, that's your prerogative. I stand by by comments and hopefully Obama will grow a pair. Oops!
1 年 ago
You are tripping!
Obama has chosen not to focus on all that's wrong with the world and set about making a difference in it in some way.
You and Reverend Wright can shout from the rooftops about the injustices like screaming mimis and nobody is going to give a fuck but you and Reverend Wright.
On the other hand, if you choose to come together with rational minds you can find a place in the world that is not all doom and gloom.
I know people are prejudice and until the emotional process of the election process, I never really given a fuck because I'm doing me regardless to what any people think of me.
I can't stand black folks always going on and on about how white folks treat us and we know we can treat each other shit.
I know this because I live it. I, like Obama, know that there are people who don't care about what color you are and will treat you decently and those are the only people I'm concerned with the rest get no airtime from me.
1 年 ago
1 年 ago
You have made my point.
"You and Reverend Wright can shout from the rooftops about the injustices like screaming mimis and nobody is going to give a fuck but you and Reverend Wright."
Apparently if you do indeed feel this way, then that kumbaya world you strive for will take a little longer.
Now, and I truly thank you for allowing me to voice my opinions without all the hate, I do truly appreciate it, I mean if you overlook all the name calling.
1 年 ago
well, I don't think African Americans should do it to satisfy racists...they should do it to marginalize their opinion. If they think a flag makes you patriotic, then you get a BIGGER flag..
I'm kinda being silly about this, but the underlying idea is to back them into a corner until they run out of reasons. Force them to adopt more bizarre reasons which will marginalize them.
1 年 ago
You've missed my point - presentation is everything.
I don't listen to people when they start screaming it's just too stressful and I'm black.
Also I was fine with Wright until he went out of his way to put his message on display as opposed to when he was speaking to injustices because they were injustices.
That Q&A; shit wasn't about injustices against you it was about Reverend Wright. I didn't need to hear that he was mad at Obama. Grown folks have those conversations in private.
Now having said that, I sent Obama and "hold up" message when he made his "off the cuff" remarks trying to explain Wright's style and he appeased me with the race speech where he addressed my concerns.
1 年 ago
Craig, the very fact that you said that shows your ignorance of both what Afrocentricism is and the idea I was speaking to when I invoked the idea. Don't try to engage me or talk about anything I've said unless you have the intelligence and HONESTY to do so.
Simply put, your comment doesn't even begin to make sense let alone approaches any kind of intelligent observation given what I said about Afrocentricism or Min. Farrakhan.
Moving on...
Ms. Martin
I can't stand black folks always going on and on about how white folks treat us and we know we can treat each other shit.
That's part of the issue I have with Obama in this whole ordeal. He's quick to dump on Black people or play that Noble Negro role. "The double-standard is real", they say, and, again, Obama is all too accepting of it.
I credit him for taking a stand when he gave his speech on race but found some profound issues where he granted all kinds of deference to OTHER people but was nowhere near as understanding when it came to Black folk and I will constantly highlight how Obama dissed a whole GENERATION of "men and women" from Rev. Wright's era and how he's quick to call White folks issues "legitimate" and not misguided or counterproductive while regurgitating that tired old narrative that it's Black folks whose "anger" and resentment is disabling and all the other derogatory things that get associated with however we are/feel while excuses are made for White folks. He should have caught more hell in the "bitter-gate" blow up for being a flip-flopping politician saying one thing in front of one croud while saying the opposite in front of the other.
In his race speech he defended White "resentment" while disparaging Black "anger" (using OTHER people's words to describe and frame the way Black people respond in society) and insisted that White "resentment" was not only "legitimate" but also not misguided. The whole "bitter-gate" stuff centered on the idea that working class Whites is vulnerable to the politics of division and often get caught up in scapegoating ... the very definition of misguided, misdirected angst.
In both cases, he tried to paint working/poor White folks as VICTIMS which, like the "bad English" Rev. Wright talked about, only seems to be a bad word when someone talks about Black VICTIMIZATION however real and legitimate because we're tired of the "politics of division"... as long as Black folks can be framed (Barack Obama included) as the source of the division (see Geraldine Ferraro and Bill Clinton's claim that Obama "played the race card").
Yes, Obama falls right in with mainstream America on that. He's big, bad and "tough" when it comes to playing the Cosby role showing "tough love" for the Black community.
When it was a Black/White thing, he essentially played the Black pathology card while being deferential to Whites to the point of saying that their misdirected angst and frustration over the diminished opportunities, etc. and, in fact, their opposition and resistance to African Americans and our historic quest for justice and equity was something we all need to understand.
That's the sacrifice mentality and worn-out narrative I'm talking about. Rev. Wright didn't fit any of the criteria in Obama's disparaging remarks about "Black anger" but then again... That didn't matter. Politicians and public figures have a long tradition of dogging Black folks and getting away with it.
In the Nevada debate, Obama confronted a Black woman's question about immigration in the strongest (pejorative) of terms, labeled it as "scapegoating" (I agreed with him and defended him on that, btw), but the second HIS POLITICAL ENEMIES made an issue out of him applying that same kind of idea to White folk, even in the most genteel of tones, explaining "why" poor Whites are "bitter" and happen to (vote against their economic interest and) "scapegoat", he's willing to offer very public apologies for something that he was right about... just like Rev. Wright was RIGHT about the things he said -- no strawmen counterarguments ("he said AIDS was invented by the gov't") allowed -- AND just like there was absolutely NOTHING wrong with what Michelle Obama said about being "proud of her country."
That's the sacrifice mentality I'm talking about. And the second HIS POLITICAL ENEMIES told him to dance to the tune of the Farrakhan (let alone Israel) broken-record...
Well, you know what happened and all of that FOR WHAT??? It's not like this kind of stuff is going to end January 21, 2009 when he becomes president. The very basis of the cooperation he could ever hope to get is now, more than ever, bought with the price of how much he is willing to sacrifice right now in the campaign.
It's the whole history of this double-standard and Obama's ready acceptance of it that has me at a crossroads in terms of how much support I'm willing to give Obama.
Just like Obama feels betrayed by Rev. Wright (because somehow the Rev. was supposed to understand how much he had to be sacrificed and surprised Obama because he got tired of being the Obama's convenient villain as well as the villain of Obama's POLITICAL ENEMIES)... I can no longer stomach the way Obama behaves. I understand the politics of it all but I also understand the sorry history of this double-standard Obama has accepted.
Obama always has an excuse that he "didn't hear" all of what Rev. Wright said... but that didn't stop him from doing the very thing his political enemies did... reduce Rev. Wright to a convenient stereotype of the "Angry Black Man."
Me, I can't stand people who can't be honest. Obama framed his issue and disagreement with Rev. Wright as one about the different worldviews they have particularly as it relates Rev. Wright "spoke as if" there was no progress. Well, again, Rev. Wright fully acknowledge how "governments change (for the good, etc.)", including our own.
So, Obama has no room to talk about being "insulted." Whatever Rev. Wright "did to him", Obama had it coming. Obama was willing to let people frame Rev. Wright as a "racist" (no press conference on that) even as he's defended Hillary, Bill, etc. and said none of them or the things they've done or said were racist or race-baiting.
To whatever extent Rev. Wright was the teacher to Obama's pupil... one lesson Obama hasn't learned is how unity can't exist with subordination and in the presence of asymmetrical deference.
I think it's that kind of naive notion MLK had to come to grips with and dispensed with. Maybe one day our beloved brother Barack Obama will progressed to that point instead of staying in the holding pattern of this idiotic Rodney King like simplistic and problematic race narrative.
There are a few more lessons in nuance and depth Obama is lacking. He'd be wise to catch a clue and understand how the difference in the way he sees things and the way Rev. Wright sees things don't make his superior to Rev. Wright's and, by extension, Rev. Wright's views, somehow, deficient or wrong.
And his idea that Wright's so-called "anger" is "generational" is about as dumb as anything I've ever heard. I'm sick and tired of people who use idiotic rhetoric like that.
Obama very public acceptance of the double-standard especially his remarks about Min. Farrakhan the other day really shows the fault lines and just how eager Obama, even if he begrudgingly did it first, is to satisfy White people's anxiety and "Your name is Toby" tests.
He can disagree, dislike and even 'hate' Min. Farrakhan but for a Black man to go out of his way to "denounce" another Black man for White folks fickle pleasure (i.e. his Farrakhan statement only shows how he's willing to answer: "TOBY!")... Well, that makes me lose respect for Obama real quick.
Again, according to reports, Obama went to the Million Man March. So exactly what was he objecting to when Rev. Wright acknowledge (get this Ms. Martin) that Farrakhan is NOT his enemy?
Obama tried to act like he can deal with and want people to talk about race in all its nuance but somehow he can't apply a nuanced view to Min. Farrakhan. Note: How Obama hasn't treated Roy Ayers someone who actually plotted to harm people in a comparable manner.
Yes. Obama is, like Cosby IMO... all too willing to treat Black people like $&1#.
I still want him to be president out of crew that's running and still believe he's a decent person committed to the Black community but I won't excuse the flaws in his thinking...
(that Rev. Wright made in a much more sincere and legitimate manner than Obama) is More than anything, it's Obama's theme of unity
1 年 ago
I listen to it all and don't grant any excuse on some arbitrary basis like the "presentation." Obama's race speech was "presented" well but the things he said about Black anger and White resentment were more problematic than anything Rev. Wright has said.
The popularity of Obama's kind of narrative, even his "good" presentation of bs don't take the stink off of it.
1 年 ago
1 年 ago
As always, you make a very compelling argument that is based solidly in fact.
I agree and felt the same disappointment at the failure to speak out in favor of Michelle, denouncing of Farrakhan, the backing off from the bitter statements (as the were very true) and the notion that he corrects quickly for the mainstream populous.
My question to you is what would you have him do instead?
And, what is it that you expect from him.
On Reverend Wright and older black americans
They are very angry and unforgiving and understandably so. I know many senior people who either hate the white man or are still so afraid that they fall right into line with the script they were given over 40 years ago. I also know some very angry young black folks.
Reverand Wright left Obama no other political choice.
Lest we forget - Obama was raced in a white household and does not share the same fundamental experience and cannot fully understand it.
So when he speaks of us in ways that you believe that are pandering to white America, it could just be that it is what he truly believes.
1 年 ago
1 年 ago
Who said he was mad at Obama? Going by this logic Obama should have kept his mouth shut when it came to claiming Rev. Wright insulted him by saying he is what he is: a politician.
Just like Rev. Wright played the fool... Obama did too and Obama was hardly "grown up" running his mouth about a MEDIA CREATED slight. Yes, Barack Obama gladly purchased his ticket and joined in the silly season celebration all on some self *ish.
It's nothing but media spin for anyone to take Rev. Wright's statements as a slight against Obama. This idea that Rev. Wright pointing out a simple point of fact and saying something that can't be debated -- Obama is a politician and, by definition, has to consider polls, etc.
Pundits talk about Obama making politically expedient decisions all the time and he's never claimed to be "insulted." This is Obama being lead by media spin just like he's repeated other popular myths that disparage Black people.
Obama definitely wasn't acting like he was "grown" when he dismissed Rev. Wright as an "Angry Black Man" from some older generation that's out of touch. The kind of ideas Rev. Wright holds don't belong to any particular generation.
Obama is about as dumb as idiotic white conservatives with silly rhetoric like that. By the same token, Obama's kind of worldview and regard (and deference), unfortunately, has no generational bounds either.
Now that's the biggest "insult" and that wasn't limited to one person (like Wright's supposed 'insult' was). Barack Obama felt it was cool to diss Rev. Wright's whole generation:
"For the men and women of Reverend Wright's generation, the memories of humiliation and doubt and fear have not gone away; nor has the anger and the bitterness of those years...
That anger is not always productive; indeed, all too often it distracts attention from solving real problems; it keeps us from squarely facing our own complicity in our condition, and prevents the African-American community from forging the alliances it needs to bring about real change. But the anger is real... to condemn it without understanding its roots, only serves to widen the chasm of misunderstanding that exists between the races."
As imperfectly as I tried to make the point before (elsewhere)... It's clear that it's Barack Obama who is the one coming up short in the understanding department.
Yes, he was content to join in the campaign to paint Rev. Wright as the "angry Black man." No matter how "nuanced" Obama wanted the picture to be... he readily conceded the point time after time after time and, again, Obama said that essentially about a whole generation of Black people who just don't happen to subscribe to his problematic view of America.
Obama has every right to his opinion about America and it is definitely appropriate for someone running for president but Barack Obama can no more define what the Black Church is and the way Black America is than Rev. Wright.
Rev. Wright said that he is ONE representative of the Black Church and Obama along with a number of other people quick to pretend like they honor and want "diversity" in the Black to be recognized felt like they had to contradict Rev. Wright as if Rev. Wright claimed to be THE Black Church.
Note: Barack Obama never dared to explain BLACK LIBERATION THEOLOGY, etc., etc.
One thing that was really funny was when the token Black conservative on CNN tried to play that card then, after a break, CNN came back with the clip (shown previously after the "God damn" YouTubes first made it on the news) of people who supported Rev. Wright's take on Black Liberation Theology/social gospel from CNN.
People are right to criticize Rev. Wright's behavior at the NPC but people who can't bear to muster any more defense of the Black Church than to say Rev. Wright isn't representative... Well, they're in the same category as CBC members, etc. who support Hillary Clinton who couldn't find anything in them to confront the race-baiting in Campaign Hillary.
1 年 ago
Ms. Martin, I'll readily concede that point but just as people criticize THE WAY Rev. Wright 'performed'... Obama failed, likewise, in the way he's gone out and there's that pattern that's there that we've both noted.
A simple genuine or feigned blowup saying, "Rev. Wright doesn't speak for me" and "I found his statements to be ridiculous" would have sufficed. But Barack Obama has no qualms with the double-standard. He accepts it and can't be so dumb as to not know that that's all HIS POLITICAL ENEMIES want from him -- to "prove" himself worthy showing how he's not like THOSE Black people.
1 年 ago
TLW - you have attempted to mix apples with oranges here. I agree with Wright on many, many levels (check through some of my comments on older posts) - I disagree with the "performance" of Wright at the Q&A; session period.
I stand by my statement that we don't know how to treat each other.
1 年 ago
This from the commenter BlackinUSA over at Field:
I'm going to talk like my grand momma did down on the E.S. of Maryland. "Who that little boy runnin fo' President...Byrack Obiama." Grand momma his name is Barack Obama! "Whatever the funny looking niggas name is he better git that Rev. off his ass cuz them white folks ain't gonna have it." Whatcha mean grand momma? "I knew 2 cents into his $4 speech Rev. Wright was only on TV get his 15mins. He ain't there to help no BARACK OBAMA or nobody else." But grand momma Obama has distance himself from Rev. Wright. "Well he ain't running fast enough and that preacher gonna ride along as far as he can. Mr. Baroma should leave his church goings be a private matter and let them newse folks dig up stuff all they want...you just keep you eyes on the prize." Grand momma his name is Barack Obama. "Humph! He still funny looking to me."
Granny is keeping it real!
1 年 ago
Thank you.
As I have attempted to say so many times, Obama in order to curry favor of the main stream masses must throw anyone over/under the bus to obtain his objective. That Reverend Wright did not stay silent as Obama basically called him the crazy old uncle to the pleasure of white folks was truly amazing. I sat and listened to that speech and listened to the pundits dissect it, and like you Nquest, I wondered if I was hearing the same words they had. Indeed, I was troubled that Obama summarized all the tortures, humiliations, discrimination, and injustices done to African Americans for centuries as the angry of a by-gone generation (which I am a member) who just don't understood this brave new world. It played well to his white listeners who wanted to hear that yes, Black folks were ready to move on and forget about what had happened to them in the past, since it would so uncomfortable to keep bringing up the atrocities that have yet to be atoned. Yes, Obama was not speaking to Black America but to those white folks who felt a little of the pressure removed from them as this man who was raised by white folks and lived in other countries, who never suffered many of the torments that Black folks in this country suffered and continue to suffer.
That was an appeasement speech to white folks. Period.
We are supposed to understand that as we always have when we have allowed one house negro to succeed knowing that maybe if he does, he can make our lives a little better, if we just look the other way.
Yes, Obama was surpised when Rev. Wright refused to play his role.
Now, the new meme is that Obama has cut him off completely. IMHO he did that in this original "race" speech, but to White folks he didn't go far enough until he denounced, disputed, blah, blah, blah.
Now, after he has done their bidding, will he be accepted? What would you have him do, you ask? You matter how much he grovels, it will not change the minds of people who had no intention of voting for him and only gave ammunition to the ones who were trying to find a so-called legitimate reason not to.
America, the beautiful. Don't you love it? That includes you Reverend Wright.
1 年 ago
himself. We all know that Barack has to walk a fine line in order to become POTUS. When Barack made the bitter comments, he was actually defending working class whites, but the media intentionally failed to mention that fact. We all need to get a grip: I agree with
Mahana. This is all manipulation by the media who does not want a Black POTUS. This is classic
conquer and divide politics. The one thing I know for sure is that we all will be in BIG Trouble if we end up with either Hillary or McCain.