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Tuesday Open Thread
I took much of what Sen. Obama said to heart and at one point was moved to tears. But I was not looking for a speech on the state of race relations in this country.
I was looking for him to address the central issue, his longstanding association with Rev. Wright.
But instead, I heard excuses and rationalizations, and call to change the subject and join the 'choir of victims' which now has been expanded to include resentful and guilt ridden whites.
This is who Obama wants to lead.
I cannot join this type of movement. I cannot vote for a man who seeks to unite 'victims' of all races with a litany of grievences against, a country, to quote Rev. Wright, '...run by rich, greedy whites.'
I'm rich. I'm white. I'm not racist and I'm a registered Independent.
I'm disappointed in Obama.
No one can escape the circumstances of their birth. No one can choose their race. We all have a past filled with oppressors and the oppressed. But I am not bound to the sins of my fathers unless I choose to sin. God Almighty created each individual, unique, with their own free will. And we live in a country where we are free to choose how we deal with the life we are given. With hard work, determination, and the grace of the Lord, we can succeed.
I was raised to believe:
"Life is not fair."
"No one will take care of you but you."
"Life is what you make it."
"Love your neighbor as thyself"
"Help your fellow man"
I'm NOT part of a 'Choir of Victims'.
Just part of a community that has been disrespected and discarded, and whose humanity has been dismissed since the moment we were brought here in the belly of slave ships.
I was really proud to be an African American yesterday. Obama is not going to get the bigot vote no matter what he says or does. He showed courage, loyalty, committment, compassion, strength and character yesterday by not letting the right wing media and the bigots pressure him into throwing Reverend Wright under the bus. Those are qualities I want in my President.
I wish Americans would judge Obama by the content of his character and not the color of his skin.
I was listening to Al Sharpton's show on the radio yesterday and he feels as if this is bigger than Obama and Wright, it's about trying to silence the black preachers. I recalled Rev. Joseph Lowery's remarks at Coretta Scott Kings' funeral and thought he might have a point. He said the mega church preachers that are taking the faith based money are silenced. Now you've got to silence the Lowery's, the Sharptons, the Jacksons and others.
If you recall the Civil Rights Movement began in the pulpit of the black church.
So, what did Hillary Clinton talk about the day after Obama's major speech on race and politics and on the 5th anniversary of the Iraq War? Counting the votes in Florida and Michigan of course.
I believe that it's NOT this mythical "white guilt" that moves so many of Obama's supporters to take up his candidacy but the possibility of redemption.
Not redemption through him but along side of him and all of our fellow citizens.
I want to share a bit of cheer with you. This morning at my dentist's office, the hygenist lit UP when I mentioned that Obama's campaign office officially opens here in our very Rendell loving county. She lit UP and said "oh my gosh, did you hear his speech yesterday? He is such a Christian!! Unity!!! I'm so excited that he's going to be our president. Although .... my husband and I had a huge fight about him last night because he says Obama is a Muslim but I know that he is a good Christian. Not the hating kind."
I was so moved and my happiness continued today because if she and people like her could hear that entire speech yesterday and take that meaning with them ... redemption is possible.
Again, I have been sitting with his words, and aghast at some of the comments of those who cannot hear. Who are demanding a simplistic answer, without a willingness to sit with reality and complexities. And again, I am grateful for Senator Obama's truth-telling and speaking to us citizens as if we are adults.
Anon @ 11:53 am - I too am white, a registered independent, and could be considered rich. We have that in common, but what we don't have in common is I know that I have racist undertones within my thinking and my acting, because that is a part of the culture I was raised in,not in my family of origin, but in the wider culture that formed me. I have been shocked at the depth of some of those racist tendencies. To not own them is a lie.
I too was raised to believe many of the statements you quoted. I was also raised to try to walk a mile in another's shoes, instead of judging them. I do not hear a choir of victims, what I hear is a call to live in reality, live in truth so we can heal and repair a culture that damages all. I wish you could hear the same.
I don't understand you, dude. I keep hearing whites say that they are tired of people trying to punish them for the sins of their fathers. Do you think it's easy for AA's to be punished and to continue to suffer from it?
I guess your point lies in something you did NOT say b/c I don't understand your reasoning.
I appreciate your HONESTY! I don't see how it could be easy! THANK YOU!
That is why I am wondering if Anon 11:53 is leaving something out. I think that if you listen to this with any racial bias then you can't really HEAR the message!
Can you honestly say that no one in your family has ever spoken a racist comment???????
Now I know you will retort with Wright wasn't his family but I beg to differ. Have you ever been w/o a father???? BO has! I believe BO received the love and affection from a father like (AA) figure that he never received from his own father and that Wright became his symbolic father - after all he led a confused man to CHRIST! Can't you believe that BO met this man, he introduced him to Christ, he grew to love him then realized this man has faults just like many others? To disown him probably would be like disowning his natural father. I think BO should be commended that he didn't face permanent anger and resentment toward his natural father as some have in similiar situations. His mother taught him to love his father regardless and not to judge. Have you ever heard of unconditional love? Do you know what it feels like????????
you said,
"But I am not bound to the sins of my fathers unless I choose to sin."
Isn't that ironic.
Because you are clearly more than willing to hold Barack Obama accountable . . . to bind him to the "sins," of his former pastor.
And, the fact that you were raised to believe that "life is not fair," does not absolve you, I or anyone from doing everything we can to make life fair.
I was raised to a different tune:
1. Don't forget where you come from; and
2. You meet the same people falling down the ladder of success that you stepped on climbing up!
Finally, I'm glad you're privileged enough to ignore that which makes you uncomfortable. Black folk can't do that. We're uncomfortable everyday. We see white anger and ignorance everyday. It's just that we've learned to grin and bear it. . . force a smile to keep the peace.
Obama's speech was the perfect compromise. He challenged black and white to, not only look inward, but to also open our minds to the concept that (gasp!) we might actually live different (though equally valid) versions of the American experience. Obama's speech poses the following challenge to us all:
Whether black or white, we should remember the following. . .
Although my experience and reality makes you uncomfortable. It's real. You don't have the right to tell me it's not American. It's just as American as yours or anyone else's. My anger is just as American as your anger. My is joy just as American as your joy. And vice versa.
You can't wish me away. I'm still here and we're going to have to deal with each other sooner or later.
In the meantime, we'll both continue to suffer the consequences of our shared ignorance. The choice is ours. What are we gonna do?
I mentioned that "chilling effect" in my last post. If the church ( the last place where we truly come together)is compromised, then where else and upon what else do we unite and stand together?
I was listening to Al Sharpton's show on the radio yesterday and he feels as if this is bigger than Obama and Wright, it's about trying to silence the black preachers. I recalled Rev. Joseph Lowery's remarks at Coretta Scott Kings' funeral and thought he might have a point. He said the mega church preachers that are taking the faith based money are silenced. Now you've got to silence the Lowery's, the Sharptons, the Jacksons and others.
If you recall the Civil Rights Movement began in the pulpit of the black church.
I completely agree with Rev. Al. I said in my post below that what bothers them MOST about Dr. Wright is that he's a SOCIALLY CONSCIOUS PREACHER.
I have absolutely NO DOUBT...that if he was a Sellout, Prosperity Gospel HUSTLER...
We wouldn't be having this discussion about him.
AT ALL.
I believe that.
This is a wise man, knowing full well the trap that had been set for him.
He will be an amazing president.
Of course, I am supporting Obama.
But you know what? This is just the beginning. I feel like this man is singlehandedly trying to raise this country to the ideal that it "SAYS" it wants to be.
My daddy used to always say "If they didn't want folks to read it, they shouldn't have wrote that shit down"
He was talking about the "Constitution" and the "Declaration of Independence"
My daddy raised me to be independent enough to believe those documents, but not so naive as to think that holding those beliefs would make life any easier for me.
The chorus of cynics will 'only grow louder and more dissonant.'
Senator Obama wants to lead everyone.
He especially wants to lead you out of the thinking that we're not all Americans. Very simple put, that's what we are. We are all Americans with our faults and opinions including Rev. Wright.
You seem to see the people who America has been challenged to champion through both religion and the beliefs upon which this country was founded as victims.
You seem to want a president who is like you and just for you - that's not possible.
The speech was given to clear the air. He wanted us to know that while he would not damn America, use Wright's words to describe what's wrong with America and that he did not agree with Wright's political views that Wright had arrived at that point in his life and opinion through the whole of his life which is clearly very different than yours, but at the same time real and the story of many.
The larger part of the speech which I don't think you got at all was that in order to make America the beauty it is trully supposed to be, we must do it TOGETHER.
You have identified yourself as white and rich. You are truly blessed and probably not remotely wired to understand what it means to be neither of those things.
If you thought that was a speech about race to justify his feelings for Wright you are clearly a racist!
It was to say we all are who we are, not only by birth and circumstances, but also by a systemic plan that has kept a lot of us from being all we can be.
Sadly, even if you would give your vote to Obama, you still probably wouldn't do anything further than that to realize the America that he wishes to achieve.
You have nothing to gain so why would you wager?
Thomas Jefferson noted during his study of his slaves that they were a forgiving and charitable people.
I fear his campaign for the presidency this election cycle may be ruined by the way his opponents, enemies, and our media is spinning this whole story, but perhaps we will be surprised.
Regardless, this is an important moment in our nations history and I'm hoping our future is improved whatever the final result. Only time will tell if our politicians are ready to debate serious issues, and whether voters give a damn about true character and substance.
In a country that elects the likes of George W. Bush, and refuses to remove him from office, I honestly have my doubts.
You have made the greater point! There are many who wish to take this away from the central matters that we we face and issues we should really be discussing.
I admit that at times I have also questioned the intent and/or direction of his campaign.
Having said that, I realize that it can't be everything
for everybody, but I believe it's better than anything we've experienced or been offered.
I have thought about this hard and long; at times proud and at times angry, but I sincerely believe that Senator Obama's desire is to achieve a better America (as corny as that may sound) looking to the Constitution and Declaration of Independence and using them as a guide for what we said we would be.
I sincerely believe he means that having taught the Constitution and understanding the difference between where we are and where we need to be.
I read parts of the Const. for affect after I heard the speech and I really think that's it.
These documents have no race or face, they simply refer to citizens or people.
His religious beliefs demand that he achieve this for the least of these.
I believe that he expects every American to do his very best to have his best life. I too expect people to dig down and find their best in spite of their circumstances.
However, we must remember, those who don't know any better won't do any better and I believe he is speaking to them as much as he is to you or me so that they will know better.
/etc winking and saying "well, you know how he really got admitted to that school." Will white folks give up their belief that some racist comments can be excused - "well, his grandmother raised him, so he shouldn't be ungrateful!" -- while others must be condemned, e.g., Rev. Wright. so the grandmother gets a generational pass, but Rev. Wright can't pass go.
There is an old saying, "the people get the leaders they deserve." Unfortunately, a minority of us have to leave under the tyranny of a willfully ignorant majority. Alas, the cool breeze of Obama's words have been quickly followed by a hard slap. But despair is not an option. I'm headed to PA! They'll have to wrest this victory out of our hands!