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What it means to be 'white' varied and complicated. I do not behave the same way as a white, middle-aged man in PA, so I can't even begin to grapple with the premise of post. I will say that I did have to shed some of my blue-collar, working class bigoted family history in order to be successful.
I think the appropriate question here is do people need to behave in a specific way to be successful. And for that I feel the answer is YES!
Hi everyone!! {waves}
@DWS
I agree. What some people perceive as "acting white" is simply a reflection of their own ignorance that ALL black people are not from the same socioeconomic class background and that ALL norms are not the same within every socioeconomic class background.
From listening to many people (albeit) from the lower socioeconomic classes, it seems commonplace to label ANYTHING that is not a norm within that class to be "from white people".
Thanks for letting me blow my trumpet!
Lisa
http://blackwomenblowthetrumpet.blogspot.com
What does "'code' switch" mean?
You might want to schedule a re-shedding.
First, define 'success'?
Secondly, success in one career or area of study, will have different criteria and require different skills.
Third, can success in one area be transferred to another?
What do you mean? I know we disagree on many things but really....
Damn S, why you pontificatin like you all dat?
My S, why are you so up in arms as if your view is the only one that is valid?
HTH.
S-
"I think the appropriate question here is do people need to behave in a specific way to be successful. And for that I feel the answer is YES!"
What is that specific way?
-----------------------------------
It has to do with culture. It is not racial but more cultural.
I had written a paper about Religion and the workplace and found it, in my research, I found that many have felt that they had to compromise in order not to run into stumbling blocks.
What about peoples names? My cousins have Arab and African names and face discrimination at times. They feel that if they changed their name, they would have a better shot in some places.
My father works on Wall Street, he is often afraid to answer the phone because of his Trinidadian accent. They do not respect him and he feels at times that he needs to forge sounding very "white American" in order to get clients and respect.
My friend feels that he needs to relax her hair because they told her at her design studio in NYC that she looked "unkept". Unkept to them means that her hair is in its natural texture and is not acceptable to their sensibilities. She did not relax it though...she left because she felt insulted. She went somewhere that she would feel wholly accepted. She, by the way, is very afrocentric.
Did you hear about that glamour magazine editor who made the comments about black women's hairstyles in the workplace?
Many have to wear their hair a certain way in order to be accepted.
From my experiences, yes, you have to assimilate in certain work enviornments. For everyone, it is different because it depends o the enviornment and your industry.=)
I do not agree with this and I feel that this is another way for people to look down on blacks from certain socio-economic backgrounds!
I know what you are talking about when you say that some attribute certain things to "acting white" but I think that you are completely throwing that at these people as if they started it. In our "American" culture, certain characteristics have been historically attached to black and white people.
Intellectualism= white
Anti-intellectualism=black
Along with other characteristics!!
It has been heavily indoctrinated.
I agree with Rhondacoca, it is culture. That was an interesting take.
A white, southern woman may face the same issues in NYC, as Rhondacoca's friend or her Wall Street father. "Big" hair, a heavy southern accent, and a name like Maybell would not fit into the norms of the NYC/Wall Street culture either.
I agree with you. You know many people (including my parents) equate black American culture with low brow or amongst people who come from certain "socio-economic" culture. That is very interesting. We are all too often viewed as a monolith which I will agree with both you and BrownWomen however we are very diverse.
I know amongst my roommates, their is a lot of diversity and we are all black. Look at the entire African diaspora. While I hate boxin people in, there are distinct black, white and asian cultures. Within each group, there are different sub-cultures. People blacks from the Caribbean (like my fam) and African American are very different. I will try and figure this out and come back because I there is no "authentically black" and "inauthentically black" in my opinion because we are all so diverse.
However I do feel that their are many aspects that are very different from white "mainstream" culture.
We do all in one way or another have to "pasteurize" ourselves to a certain extent.
*like that word, thefreeslave blog had a great article about what Obama has to do to be acceptable to whites and he used the phrase "pasteurized black".
My roomate and me often joke about being "patio negros" (in between the field and the house). When we are not in certain company we are pretty field but we enter the house when we are around certain company (work, school at times etc).
I also wanted to add that the reason why people cannot detect white culture is because it has been made the norms and the default.
P.S. I am sorry if my comment sounds like I'm rambling because i think out loud often times when I comments.
I agree and perhaps some identify it as
the majority culture = white
with an expectation that everyone conform to that majority culture and suppress anything that differs be it hair, dress, speech, mannerisms, etc.
On more than one occasion I have been told, "I would have never guessed that you are an artist, you don't look like one."
I guess by their standards I was too 'conservative.' Yet with in my own family, I was 'out there.'
My brother too, an artist and interior designer. Clients are surprised to know he is straight, happily married with 3 beautiful kids.
I agree!!! You see, within white culture there are differences also!! It has to do with geographics and socio-economic background like DWS and BlackwomenBlowthe Trumpet pointed out. I know a lot of people who need that adjustment and often run into problems.
However I will add that whites still have a certain umbrella of acceptability regardless of certain differences. Non-whites especially blacks have a greater "issue" ( do not like the word "issue" please help get me another) when it comes to assimilation.
I also wanted to add, that Native Americans in the late 19th and early 20th century were forced into school were they had to adhere and conform to white cultural norms.
I like this convo, I study Anthropology so this is right down my ally.
The degree to which these criteria are applied, as they confront the established norms and are received by the leadership of the workplace culture, I believe, ultimately determine an individual's success.
I would agree that non-whites face a bigger challenge. But even the criteria I described above, if met, are subject to prejudice on a personal level. Whites would have a much more difficult time proving 'cultural' or 'class' descrimination as a barrier to success than a non-whites.
Valid point. I know when I joined the NYC/Wall street culture my southern accent was frowned upon.
I had clearly entered an environment where southern seemed to = dumb yet I could not have obtained the position I held if I were not educated. However, I am Black so I see it from that perspective as well.
_____________________________________
Personally, I am impressed by those who are thoughtful and articulate. I am impressed by a desire to work hard, learn and grow, professionally and personally. I am impressed by those who feel that they can make a unique contribution with out thinking they 'know it all.'
Also, I need to feel comfortable with an individuals abilities and character. I am a small business owner, and personal compatibility is key for me.
Just wondering.
You crack me up with your code switch example.
Now, there is a limit. Some folks take it way too far, and in the end, wind up losing themselves, and it's sad to watch.
Others, do it 9-5, and then, switch back.
Even as you switch, there are levels to doing it at work. But, there is a balance. The question most Black folks must ask themselves what are they willing to do? Whether or not Corporate America becomes too much to deal with, because the Black Tax becomes too great. And, for those of us not willing to pay the Black Tax too often, well you know what labels we get in a nanoseond:
militant
difficult
not-a-team-player
uncooperative
All the while those giving at the farm on the Black Tax, sit back and say nothing.
I love the term Patio Negro...I think it's hilarious, on spot, and shows the complications of being Black in America.
It took a couple of minutes to come up with which led me to believe I must be assimilating too much and too often. I'm still not-a-team-player though...LOL
White middle class businesspeople. So, while it might cut down on the Black Tax, it doesn't eliminate the Black Tax. (the lessons learned from personal experience; I was naive...thought it was gonna be Black Shangri-la...LOL)
East Asian (Indian) - 'Coconut'.
I know I can't fake the funk too well because I know other Asian Americans and African Americans who are genuinely self-serving and playing to "the man" in a way that white folk can find them palatable, aka "well spoken" and "hard working," but then it bites them in the ass because they're not seen as "leaders," because they don't speak their mind.
It's no win for everybody.
A similar term for Native Americans is "Apple"; Red on the outside, etc.
It really is a shame that in 2008, our respective sociologies are still so complex.
P.S.
Some of my White friends have an opportunity (and in my opinion, a responsibility) to go beyond naively asking "why" ... or "what is acting White?".
This is and has been a social phenomenon for centuries. There are few justifications for not being aware of it.
I do think that we do need to distinguish between "professional" and "unprofessional" behavior. Everyone has to adhere to the rules of society whether you grew up as a poor white person from a trailer park or a poor black person from the projects. These rules exist to single out those who refuse to adhere to the rules. After all, if you choose to single yourself out based on how you dress, style your hair, etc., then you are volunteering to be subjected to great scrutiny.
I agree with Rikyrah: I don't think black folks get enough credit for being bi-cultural in America, that's something that connects us as people of color
..often times from the Filipino American experience we are ashamed at our brothers and sisters who recently immigrate, we call them FOB's, they don't speak English well, they dress funny, eat funny---when we're really saying they ain't white enough. So we teach them how to be white.
And let's not forget that whiteness is exported around their world---that's why my parents and family come to America with a racist baseline that black folks are inferior
until the day being "successful" stops being attributed to whiteness and whiteness continues to remain a possessive asset (easier to get credit, live in a neighborhood they desire) until the day we are not taught to assimilate every immigrant towards whiteness
then we can stop having these debates if its culture, if its norms....call it what it is its norms rooted in whiteness
Exactly because Whiteness is seen as desirable, normal and superior. In order to be successful, you must meet those standards. I think everyone has already gotten that. Some people however do not understand it and the reason why they do not is because of what I had written above.
"And let's not forget that whiteness is exported around their world---that's why my parents and family come to America with a racist baseline that black folks are inferior"
Of course, even black immigrants come here with that sentiment.
Now, look at what Obama has to do and go through in order to become president. Michelle did not quite get a pass mark as of yet.
"...if you choose to single yourself out based on how you dress, style your hair, etc., then you are volunteering to be subjected to great scrutiny."
Let me break it down:
"single yourself out based on how you dress"
My aunt's husband is from Jordan. She veils herself. It often causes issues but it is her religion and culture to do so, period.
"style your hair"
If someone has to alter themselves to look acceptable to another group of people then they are assimilating, period whether it needs to be done or not. My friend has her natural hair texture but of course what she is born with is not acceptable.
In order not to volunteer yourself to scrutiny, you must be acceptable to the sensibilities of those in power which means you must assmilate.
My blackness volunteers me to scrutiny from the minute I walk through the door. I cannot do much about that.
I understand what you mean by basic professionalism and unprofessionalism but that is not what we are talking about. Some people get lost in discussing that and not discussing the real picture.
Is a sari or dashiki more 'professional'?
Are they any 'universal norms?'
I know I can't fake the funk too well because I know other Asian Americans and African Americans who are genuinely self-serving and playing to "the man" in a way that white folk can find them palatable, aka "well spoken" and "hard working," but then it bites them in the ass because they're not seen as "leaders," because they don't speak their mind.
_____________________________________
Are being 'well-spoken' and 'hard working' 'norms rooted in whitness'? Are not individuals of all races and cultures valued for these attributes?
2) For my one part, I can only refer to the year I spent in the UK studying and working. Happily, I did not experience any kind of pressure to conform or assimilate but that had a lot to do with the very liberal, bend over backward environment I was in - first at university and then as an intern in a progressive political think tank. Basically, no-one would dare suggest such a thing and they were some pretty laid-back folks to start with.
On the contrary, I rode this liberal attitude like a thoroughbred. Before I went to uni, one of my former editors (a fairly militant and brilliant Rastafarian who had also studied there) advised me to take every opportunity to 'educate those people', since as the only black person (in my department) and only Caribbean person (in 6 years in the department) they 'had' to listen to me. Right he was - I made a point of emphasising my culture at every opportunity - in every class discussion I would find a way to bring in a black/Caribbean perspective, at the think tank, I rocked an African-print headwrap with my work outfit etc. etc.
3)However, if I had lived in the UK on a long-term basis and had planned on doing so, I am pretty sure I would have began to felt the pressure. My older sister has lived there for 5 years now and teaches in a school in a working class area and feels that pressure, as do other friends and relatives.
Is a sari or dashiki more 'professional'?
Are they any 'universal norms?'
A sari is more acceptable, because it's looked at cultural, from India. People will not speak up about it.
A dashiki, quite frankly, depends upon the Black person.
If they open their mouths and an accent come forth, it will be seen as cultural dress.
If they open their mouths and no accent comes forth - militant Black person.
Head cover - religious....and because it's religious, they might be a little peturbed by it, but they can't touch it, because you can't disrespect religious traditions openly in this country, in the workplace. Though, once again, if it's an Arab with head cover, it's religious. If it's a Black Muslim - militant outsider once again. ...unless they have a foreigh accent.
And here is the but, some blacks themselves to believe to get ahead they have to assimilate or change their speech to sound white. I knew a guy in college who said he would only marry a light-shin women or an affluent white women so he could make it in corporate america. No speaking properly does not mean that you are trying to be white. I am the fourth generation in my family to graduate from college and we all have a command of the English language and see ourselves as black. But there is a way that White people talk. A certain pitch in their voice, certain slang, certain phrases they use that some blacks try to copy to because they see white as right. I am sorry but some blacks do not want to be seen as the negative images associated with blacks and think assimilating is the way to go. I think the real problem is some blacks don't no the difference between an intelligent and cultured black person and a person who really does want to attach themselves to whitedom. We have been told for so long who we are and it is not always positive. I grew up in a upper-middle class white and black neighborhood and let me tell you not all white people have a command of the English language, but listen to some black people they all sound well spoken. We need to get off that thinking that if blacks don't live up to stereotypes about who blacks they are trying to be white. Most if not all the stereotypes come from whites way back at the beginning of us being in this country. Some blacks don't even get themselves that if you talk properly or have certain mannerisms that you don't abandon your race. "I got to put my white voice on" That is so ridiculous. Also there are so many negative images of black people out there in the media, that some blacks don't want to be associated at all with anything that they see. And this follows them into the work world. I say you can be refined and be a black person as well. I do it everyday. I know my history, support my community, I self-identify, I love black people, and I know black is beautiful.
As for Asian, I am sorry but most of them do want to act white. That is why so many of them are rude to us and even whites. They hate us because they think hating us will bring them closer to whites, and they hate whites because they can't be them. They even hate us because some blacks can pass for white way before they can. When I visited Japan I saw a lost of Western Culture worship. Yes I saw Japanese culture, but I saw a lot of love for White people. I have watch documentaries on Asians where THEY have admitted to trying to be white and thinking white is right. People laugh at blacks for marrying whites, but I see way more of them marrying white people. I hardly ever see Asian couples. All the Asian students I went to school with never wanted to date each other. I don't hate Asian, but their attitude toward us and other things help me to come to this conclusion.
I know I am going to be hit for this, but I stand by my comments.
All that is not to say that there is not pressure to 'act white' or the concept of doing so in majority black countries.
As evidenced by the South African 'coconut' debate, that pressure is still there -but it is largely applied by ourselves. In this instance it is not so much acting white to be successful but a legacy of white supremacy (through colonialism, apartheid etc.) and a reflection of the fact that even in these places, the most wealthy and financially successful people are still white.
So some of us put the pressure on ourselves in all kinds of ways.
In Barbados, you get taxi men putting on painful Yankee twangs when talking to tourists and in the recent past, we had employers discriminating against people for wearing dreads or cornrows. Up to 14 years ago there was a huge uproar here when a female government minister wore her hair in natural twists. And this is in a country that is 90-95% black.
On the flipside, I have black friends who complain that they get people looking askance at them because they're black and like heavy metal or attended a private school or like to party at certain clubs.
Even more interestingly I find now that white Barbadians seem to be putting themselves under pressure to 'act white'. Up to 25, 30 years ago, there were white calypso bands, white footballers, white cricketers, lots of white civil servants etc. Since Independence it seems they are retreating more and more into a non-Caribbean identity to differentiate their whiteness - all the white musical bands now are rock/alternative, they tend towards polo, motorsport and swimming more and they hire one another in the private sector rather than work in the civil service. When we had a white police officer about 5 years ago, it was a MASSIVE deal because it has become so rare -there were articles in the press, people stopped and gawked at him on the streets etc.
What is your perception of the white person?
pwaggie,
So would you say that being well spoken is a norm among successful individuals?
Your not boxing any one in there are certain things that different ethnicities share. Its a fact, and there is nothing wrong with that. The things that we share aren't necessarily bad. We just all have it in common. I think its great. We are all different, but you do share common things with your race.
First I love the blog and am honored that you would speak to my post.
Second, yes I do thinks that is the norm.
Third, that was not the real point I was trying to make. The point I was making is that not everybody who is successful or speaks properly is trying to be white, but some maybe even just a few are trying to or think that is white.
Also I can't say all about White culture. Even though I am half Italian. I can't define it into simple terms. I do know that my blacks relatives have different mannerisms, customs, vocal pitch than my Italian relatives. There are just some things every ethnic group share. Point blank.
the Hispanic version I forgot I have to ask My Mexican friends. Many of them feel the same way I do, but for Latinos
I agree that there are some attributes shared by many groups and cultures that help to define what promotes or facilitates success.
I believe that being successful has less to do with 'behaving white' than 'behaving successful.'
I also think it has more to do with the internal qualities as opposed to external ones.
Would a well spoken, hard working, dashiki wearing, mid-west accented black person have at better chance of success than a slangy, slow working, ripped jean wearing, tongue pierced, tatooed white person?
What is your perception of the white person?
I'm not understanding your question. So, before I answer a question you didn't ask, I'm asking for clarification.
You spoke to all of my other examples.
Wearing a sari you feel, is acceptable, based on 'norms rooted in whiteness'. So do you feel the same way about the 'external cultural expression' of the white person I described?
If one is confident that they posess the internal qualities necessary for success, they will be more confident in expressing and defending their personal cultural choices.
What difference does it make that I wear a dashiki, when I was able to convince a customer to purchase an additional x, y, z, product?
You mentioned the concept of the "militant Black person" and I started thinking...
If I reflect on slavery in general and Haiti and Nat Turner specifically, I realize the concept of assimilation goes way back pretty far. To this day many white people become uncomfortable when blacks congregate in large numbers, begin to speak, dress or act in a way that does not conform.
If I apply that same concept to colonialism across the world I can see similarities.
So I wonder do white people expect conformity from people of color to calm their fears of not being in control?
Also, perhaps for some, the willingness to conform comes as a result of that history of colonialism and slavery where the failure to fall in line resulted in a denial of the basic necessities of life such as food, clothing, shelter and employment. And to some extent still does today.
Just thinking out loud, people can agree or disagree. I just think this goes beyond "professionalism." Perhaps I am stating the obvious, but based on the posts I am not sure it is so obvious to everyone.
Why do you think it is like that. Brown SugaQT86 explained it by saying,
"I know what you are talking about when you say that some attribute certain things to "acting white" but I think that you are completely throwing that at these [black] people as if they started it. In our "American" culture, certain characteristics have been historically attached to black and white people.
Intellectualism= white
Anti-intellectualism=black
Along with other characteristics!!
It has been heavily indoctrinated."
I agree with her. It was promoted as means to mis-educate blacks.
Some blacks in this country did not just start doing that. There is history behind this.
So stop saying black people and start saying some brainwashed black people.
P.S. Why are there so many black Republican strategists on tv? when like most blacks are democratic. They annoy me, they act so clueless and stupid. I am not saying that Black Republicans are, I am just saying that these people are.
If one is confident that they posess the internal qualities necessary for success, they will be more confident in expressing and defending their personal cultural choices.
What difference does it make that I wear a dashiki, when I was able to convince a customer to purchase an additional x, y, z, product?
The other external cultural expression that you presented will only work in certain situations. In a more formal corporate setting, that White kid would be chastised the same as any other person outside of the cultural norm. But, if that person were in a corporate cultural environment, say a silicon valley setup, where the attitude was different, then they would be fine.
It would be wonderful if folks were just judged by their hard works, but in a corporate environment, it is not the case.
I stopped putting chemicals in my hair over 4 years ago. Though it had nothing to do with my performance, there was a reaction to my deciding to go with my natural hair. People wanted to know ' why'. People wanted me to 'explain'. Though my quality of work didn't change, part of people's perceptions of me did change when I did, yes, reject White standards of beauty for myself and accepted my own natural African-originated beauty.
This is what I have been trying to get at. It is historical.
Whites promoted anti-intellectualism of blacks. It became a social construction and racist belief that blacks were not intellect and hard-working. It was done to prevent the empowerment and revolt.
"If I reflect on slavery in general and Haiti and Nat Turner specifically, I realize the concept of assimilation goes way back pretty far. To this day many white people become uncomfortable when blacks congregate in large numbers, begin to speak, dress or act in a way that does not conform.
So I wonder do white people expect conformity from people of color to calm their fears of not being in control?"
Exactly. Its like keeping one away frok the tree of knowledge so that they do not understand their own oppression, existence and history. If they did then whites could not so easily control them.
why do you think they did not educate the slaves (it was even illegal to) and promoted black anti-intellectualism and inferiority after emancipation? It makes sense.
My roomate never relaxed her hair or even straightens it. She refuses to. She actually did a project where she wore her hair naturally and she straightened and she said that she was treated differently. I always found that to be interesting??
It is only then, when outside of America, that you realize just how American you are. It's an eye opener. It was for me.
I know where it comes from. Some blacks don't. I just hate its that way. I have been called "acting white", but if anyone who really knows me knows the opposite. I know we will get hit up for this, but Black Republication annoy me also. I think I know why they are also ways on t.v. but I wont say.
I hear you.
rikyrah,
Not that I consider myself militant at this point in my life, but I have traveled outside the US to Africa and the Caribbean and I did not feel I was viewed so much as an American but as a black American and it was not particularly positive. I will say it was eye opening though.
Let us assume that values like commitment to excellence and dedication are givens.
Some African Americans are well suited for some corporate environments. It's a perfect match. There is no need to wear a mask or to assimilate. If you love or prefer hierarchical organizations, conformity, routine, are competitive, don't mind putting your career plan in the hands of your management and leadership team, comfortable with group think, and if productivity is more important than creativity to you, then you don't need to assimilate. You are the ideal employee. There are black people who thrive in large corporate environment.
The issue arises when your values are totally different than those listed above but you still want the cushy title, money and status that comes with the corporate job. That's when you have to assimilate or fake it to fit in. I don't know how many times I wanted to run out of meetings screaming when co-workers were playing games of oneupmanship, or repeatthesentimentitis.
There came a point in my life (recently, like last year) when I realized that I wasn't going anywhere in corporate america. I would never be as good as some of the other employees. It wasn't because I wasn't capable. I was expending so much mental energy assimilating or playing the game, that I couldn't do my job to the best of my abilities.
I was the HR cliche: A Bad Fit.
I left recently. I know what a company has to be for me to excel and energy left over for me to pursue other interests.
That is because Black Americans are viewed upon as the ultimate conformists who appear to actively try and distance themselves from the continual struggle of Africans of the diaspora. Otherwise we tend to look down on our Brothers and Sisters from other nations and I absolutely agree with this. We have taken on the identity and atitude of the people/oppressor that we fought so hard against.
Interesting perspective. Given the fact I saw whites treated much better led me to believe the perception was based on the reputation maliciously spread about us worldwide or prior experiences.
Further, since I know I went out of my way to be respectful of individuals and their cultures and I did not "look down upon our Brothers and Sisters" I can only conclude it had less to do with me as an individual as it had to do with what they chose to believe.
So growing up this has always been a matter less of "acting white" than trying to "fit in" when my friends and schoolmates were all white.
All the same, I also consciously rejected the militant Asian-American identity people in college. I'd like to see myself not just as my phenotype, nor just the genetic and cultural heritage of my parents, but also embrace the other aspects -- "white," Jewish, Long Island, etc -- that also compose my identity. I'd like to be able to be AND and not just be stuck between two places.
This is what I've valued about Barack Obama's approach to race and what I heard in his "race speech" -- an effort to make the conversation about the "and" rather than the "or." After all, my kids, if we have any, will be "bi-racial" and facing the same questions he did. I'd like to think that they can value all of what make them special, which isn't just the accident of birth but the circumstances of their surroundings.
Thanx for answering my questions.
DWS,
My fam is Caribbean. They actually came to this country viewing black Americans as inferior and with bad tendencies. I am always shocked that these racist representations manage to reach all over the world...sad.
I also wanted to agree with, TLW. many also see black Americans as trying to look down upon blacks who are from the Caribbean and Africa as backwards because of the represenations of blacks in the Caribbean and Africa put out my certain ideologies here in the U.S.
It is very complicated but I know for a fact that to call someone a "black American" in my family was a "dirty word".
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I'm not going to entertain this comment any further, but if you never understood what it feels like to deny yourself and to downplay a part of your identity in this racist, imperialist world; you will never understand what it is to "act white"
--you will never understand how recent immigrants get shafted for state-funding (MA) for bilingual education in the name of English as an official language
--you will never understand white privilege each time you travel
--you will never understand Katrina recovery and who got access to government resources to rebuild
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"If by "acting white" you mean speaking intelligently using the English language and educating and bettering yourself so that you have SOME marketable skill that's of value to an employer,"
the flipside to this premise is the way we are (non-white) is not a valuable marketing skill, not educated, and we're just dumbing ourselves by speakin our native tongues, by living in our existing customs
..now that sounds hella racist
Not all white people are successful.
So the focus should be on what qualities or attributes are widely recognized as norms among the successful. Can those attributes be categorized as, rhondacoca says, being 'rooted in whiteness' or are they 'universal,' and valued by many cultures.
As the economies of the world continue to grow and become even more interconnected, and as businesses, large and small, become connected globally through the internet, do race and gender become less important than being American?
What are the qualities and attributes that make Americans successful? And if some of those attributes are 'rooted in whitness' or 'jewishness' or 'blackness' or 'asian-ness' or 'hispanic-ness' would it not be in one's economic self-interest to embrace them?
It is good and meaningful for individuals to celebrate and express their culture, race, gender and personal identity, but in the workplace, and in a larger corporate culture, the corporation insists that one conforms to its culture, not the other way around in order to achieve a 'collective success.'
Personally, this is why I am an entrapreneur. And I believe entrepreneurship is the fastest, most rewarding way to achieve success, to achieve the American dream.
If you read my entire post you would know I do understand why some blacks believe that certain behaviors are considered white. It goes back to slavery and what we were taught about ourselves. Also Blacks in America are told negative things about people from the Caribbean also. My grandmother who is a women of leisure, did a missionary work in the West Indies. The things that she was told about West Indians before she went and what she saw went she got there was different. And she went all over the West Indies. It goes both wast. Every since the 20s, 30s, 40s all people of African Descent are told negative things about each other to keep us apart.
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I don't equate success with white people, and your right not all whites are successful. Most of the people on welfare are white. I do believe though some some blacks no matter what socioeconomic background you are in there are blacks who do try to act white because they thinks its better. I don't think that if you are successful that you are trying to be white, and I do believe a lot of blacks get mislabeled. I also agree that blacks need to become entrepreneur like yourself. There are people who have been in the country as long as blacks making money off of us, and we are working for someone else. If you own your own businesses you don't have to worry about being anyone but your self.
No.
They need to believe in themselves and their abilities, acquire the skills to effectively communicate and market their talents, services and/or products, and become entrepreneurial.
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"Not that I consider myself militant at this point in my life, but I have traveled outside the US to Africa and the Caribbean and I did not feel I was viewed so much as an American but as a black American and it was not particularly positive. I will say it was eye opening though."
That is because Black Americans are viewed upon as the ultimate conformists who appear to actively try and distance themselves from the continual struggle of Africans of the diaspora. Otherwise we tend to look down on our Brothers and Sisters from other nations and I absolutely agree with this. We have taken on the identity and atitude of the people/oppressor that we fought so hard against.
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I'd like to address this. Yes and no.
On the one hand, a lot of black Caribbean people do feel as if African-Americans look down on us and resent the attitude of African-Americans - who sometimes tend to behave as if they are the only black people in the whole Western Hemisphere and have the only legitimate and defining 'black experience'. Small example: When Rihanna won her Grammy, Jay-Z jokingly 'translated' her speech. A lot of Bajans were not amused by that. Larger example: African-Americans subscribing to the same broad cliches and stereotypes of Caribbean people as white Americans do. We feel you should know better or at least make the efffort to do so.
On the other hand, a LOT of West Indians, especially after they have lived in the States among African-Americans, tend to look down on them. Perhaps because they feel more defined by their immigrant status rather than their black status, West Indians tend to do differently and make note of it.Black Caribbean people tend to get more education, own their own businesses more, own their own houses more etc than black Americans and then they tend to feel 'well if we can do all this why can't you in your own country'? One complaint I hear a lot about African-Americans from Caribbean is that they are 'lazy'.
I don't live there so I don't know if that is the case.
Interestingly enough, this same dynamic plays out in the UK between African-Brits and Caribbean-Brits - with the Africans tending to look down on Caribbean people. I have had a young man from Cameroon tell me I'm 'so not like the typical Caribbean woman- all they want to do is party and have children'.
It has nothing with being successful!!!! being educated or speaking what you will consider as "properly".
If this is what you people think we are talking about then you are lost!! I am successful and highly educated and I DO NOT consider that to be "acting white". Many blacks do not. That is actually a profound misconception that many have painted and I just finished my senior thesis on it.
I was happy that this conversation came up because I spent the past year studying it. I visted 25 high schools and middle schools and not once did any of the students or their parents believed that education, intellectualism, success etc was being white. The majority agreed that they would love to achieve certain things but it seems so far out of reach due to their economic circumstances. I wish people can stop saying that. I really do because many have already debunked that.
Where it does exist, I have heard, has been in schools where blacks were the minority. Due to the way that schools are structured, many blacks students are stuck in average and remedial courses. Many are not in the AP or higher level programs therefore those few black kids ( like myself) were sometimes outcasted because they are caught in a class with majority white kids. This is natural.
Nobody said I was "acting white" when I was in AP classes, got into a competitive college, started my own design business while in college etc... I never had a problem with the black students, black community...no one. I did know however that in high school due to the fact that I was in the theatre and arts programs at my high school (which is known to lock out blacks and latinos)this caused many to few me as one who did not like black people because I was in programs with people who were not the most inclusive except for me and like 2 other kids. I was in AP courses and most the students where Jewish. When I was in classes from 8-3 with predominately white students, it seemed that I was somehow down with them or trying to be like them in some respect. I was not because I was getting educated or because I was "smart" (I hate aligning smart with institutional education).
I also wanted to add that I left my design company and went freelance because I did not like the restraints of the work enviornment.
Also, I am quite aware of how native born black Americans think about West Indians. I know that it is a mutual misconception. I try and explain this to my family but they do not get it. We need to build a bridge of understanding.
My mother and father pray each day that they were not born here. They were never denied basic rights, treated less than human, told that they were inferior, told that they couldn't do something and they never felt the restrictions of not being able to be themselves in a society or of being restricted from certain aspects of life in their society.
When my parents came to this country, they were proud of who they were, they had an identifiable culture that was seperate from that in the U.S., they did not adhere to restrictions, they were never told that they could not do something and they came to this country with that immigrant idea of freedom, democracy and social mobility. This is something that is alien to African Americans.
Every single member of my family believes that America is a racist country. My family except from my parents have chosen and sought out communities that have large middle class and black populations to live amongst like in Brooklyn, Tampa, parts of Prince George's county Maryland and Atlanta. They refuse to live in communities like my parents do. They also have a sense of solidarity and support that keeps them whole.They each can share many, many stories of prejudice that they have faced in this country. The reason why they could move above it is because my family in particular has a sense of pride (which many consider to be arrogance) that allows them not to settle for anything!!
This is what my cousin said he tries to teach his friends who are native black American. He said that too many need to adat these attitudes. When you do, nobody will be able to deny you anything. You will not be ashamed of who you are and you will be able to find your rightful place. Malcolm X used to talk alot about this.
We must not make generalizations. There are many West Indians who are not well off in this country.