Jack and Jill Politics - Latest Comments in Pennsylvania - She Won..oh well, onto Indiana and North Carolina

Re: Pennsylvania - She Won..oh well, onto Indiana and North Carolina

Ronnie B — Wed, 23 Apr 2008 19:42:00 -0000

Seems to me that, for most of us here at JJP, our "working-class" ancestry dates back to the 1600's and continues right up through today.

Re: Pennsylvania - She Won..oh well, onto Indiana and North Carolina

B-Serious — Wed, 23 Apr 2008 19:39:00 -0000

rhondacoca,

I'm with you on this.

I think we should really start to lean on our media outlets, particularly people like Roland Martin. We need to let the media know that Democrats can't assume they'll get the black vote in November if Hillary is the nominee.

I'm not voting for her. Neither is anyone in my family. And I know we're not the only ones who feel this way.

For the past month we've heard story after story detailing Obama's trouble reaching the rural working class voter.

Well, Obama's problems with Reagan Democrats are NOTHING compared to the trouble Hillary's gonna have with the black vote if she steals this nomination.

90% is more than an endorsement of Obama. It is also a REJECTION of Clinton!

This gets at a core issue. Black people are people too. It sounds funny when you say it but let's face facts.

Black people are working class voters as well.

Black women are women too.

How can Hillary be the populist candidate when she loses big time in the inner city? I have to check the stats, but I think she loses the "poor" vote. I'm not talking about the "working class." I'm talking about the poor vote, where working class is a step up the economic ladder.

How can Hillary be the "women's" champion if she's losing 80-90% of the black female vote?

I'd really like to see the media pick up on some of these issues. Michell Bernard made a great point on MSNBC. When Obama wins NC by more than 20% the Clintons will be more than happy to dismiss it as a "black state."

Yet Obama struggles with blue collar whites and we're supposed to see this as a threat towards his electability?

Give me a break!

Let's see Hillary win PA without the black vote in Philadelphia. Look at any electoral map. PA is RED with blue spots. Those blue spots? Cities like Philadelphia where blacks can make as much as 50% of the Democratic vote.

Talk about electability issues. We need to get the media to start asking some of these tough questions.

Re: Pennsylvania - She Won..oh well, onto Indiana and North Carolina

RhondaCoca — Wed, 23 Apr 2008 17:56:00 -0000

"And for the love of JJP, can someone please tell me why Black folk aren't described as "working-class"?"

We are a monolith to them. I was watching Chris Matthews break down white voters in Pennsylvania to

1. Beer Drinkers

2. Bowlers

3. Hunters

4. Some other wach category

They just lump us together...we really dont exist.

They always do that all forms of media, social science etc...do that.

Re: Pennsylvania - She Won..oh well, onto Indiana and North Carolina

Anonymous — Wed, 23 Apr 2008 16:19:00 -0000

Well I was signing my posts b/c I don't want to be confused with another (lunatic LOL!). I need to stop being lazy and figure out why I haven't been able to sign in. And in the past I ahve gotten made and had to respond immediately! (b/f taking the time to sign in. I have been too busy today to figure out what is wrong so I made sure to sign my comments. I know how it bothers some people and I am not trying to hide b/h random posts.

Against Race Politics

Re: Pennsylvania - She Won..oh well, onto Indiana and North Carolina

Ms.Martin — Wed, 23 Apr 2008 16:14:00 -0000

Ronnie B

I've been thinking the same thing for weeks.

Re: Pennsylvania - She Won..oh well, onto Indiana and North Carolina

N. Mahana — Wed, 23 Apr 2008 16:11:00 -0000

@ against race politics...

omg I'm sorry, I've been calling you anonymous...I was too caught up in my ranting.*laughs*

Re: Pennsylvania - She Won..oh well, onto Indiana and North Carolina

Anonymous — Wed, 23 Apr 2008 15:51:00 -0000

N Mahana,

You said that!

I must admit I used to vote for the Dem nominee (whoever it was) as the primary never usually made it around my way so(ashamedly)I was never too interested b/c they were all one in the same. NOT THIS TIME- now I really see what is going on!

Against race Politics (can't seem to sign in)

Re: Pennsylvania - She Won..oh well, onto Indiana and North Carolina

Sepia — Wed, 23 Apr 2008 15:01:00 -0000

"1. Obama should have been better prepared for Wright and Ayers stories. This stuff was old news to anyone who follows politics;

2. He's done a poor job at exploiting Hillary's weaknesses to gain political points (they haven't followed Hillary's controversies: "screw 'em"; her comments about MoveOn; Rendell praising Farakhan; Mark Penn and Columbian Free Trade, etc.); and

3. His surrogate game is weak. He reacts but rarely gets out in front of a story. Hillary should be reacting to him, not the other way around. He's the frontrunner, not her."

B-Serious, I'm ITA with ya! For the life of me, I can't understand why the BHO camp waited until the DAY BEFORE the primary to send out flyers on trade? That's a hot button issue in PA and should've been pounded into the PA psyche the moment the WSJ published the article about Mark Penn. The same thing with Clinton's "Screw 'em!" comments and MoveOn.org.

I understand Obama not wanting to appear to be picking on the girl, but that doesn't mean he should allow her to get away with things that have facts and proof to back them up!

Re: Pennsylvania - She Won..oh well, onto Indiana and North Carolina

Phia — Wed, 23 Apr 2008 14:50:00 -0000

WOW. I thought we were discussing politics. I'm not sure who was kissing John Edwards' butt. I have been one of his harshest critics & acknowledged early on his sleazy car salesman tactics. Even when many in the black electorate (including posters on JJP) were adamantly supporting him. I was only pointing out that given how divisive the campaign has become, there would be more pressure for him to pick a side if his wife goes for Hillary. Your argument assumes that we have a well-informed electorate. The sad truth is that we don't & I'm not sure we've had one in my lifetime (I'm 29). To those of us who are political junkies, an Edwards endorsement doesn't matter in the same way that a Richardson endorsement didn't/doesn't matter. But to those who don't follow the process, it matters because it is symbolic to the voters whom these endorsers appeal to most (Hispanics, Blue collar whites, etc.)

Re: Pennsylvania - She Won..oh well, onto Indiana and North Carolina

N. Mahana — Wed, 23 Apr 2008 14:31:00 -0000

@ anonymous

Well that's exactly my point...who will? Obviously the opinion of the "MSM" and the DNC is that blacks are the good ole faithful and therefore we are expendable so marginalize Obama and marginalize blacks as a whole. Make "us" the villians to win some votes...

Priceless.

Which, as I stated (before), can be partly blamed on us ("us", as in black dems in general) accepting the status quo for the past couple of decades and being that ole standby while being ignored and taken for granted.

I'm with Michelle, some Black American needs to wake up! We're being played like a fiddle if Black Obama supporters stick by this party after what is being revealed that's a damn shame and welcome to slavery light. To me, I'm happy this is the dynamic of the Dem primary, because it's revealing a lot and maybe we can make some true change in the fall.

Let the DNC gain (or lose) the Presidency without us aiding them. Then we can move on to finding leaders that can form a party that truly cares about the issues of all not just some.

Re: Pennsylvania - She Won..oh well, onto Indiana and North Carolina

Anonymous — Wed, 23 Apr 2008 13:58:00 -0000

Ronnie b,

GOOD QUESTION!!!!!!!!!!

"Against Race Politics"

Re: Pennsylvania - She Won..oh well, onto Indiana and North Carolina

D. — Wed, 23 Apr 2008 13:55:00 -0000

This was from before Super Tuesday, but it kinda conveys how white men are looking at the election:

DISCLAIMER: Didn't write it, not cosigning, just feel it MIGHT be relevant to the discussion.

In Election 2008, Don't Forget Angry White Man

Anon 10:45,

Hell no they won't stick with the party. I think a lot of blacks will just sit it out.

Re: Pennsylvania - She Won..oh well, onto Indiana and North Carolina

Ronnie B — Wed, 23 Apr 2008 13:48:00 -0000

So the infamous "working-class white voters" finally had the opportunity to speak. But what did they say (other than "under no circumstances will we vote for ANY Black man as president")?

And for the love of JJP, can someone please tell me why Black folk aren't described as "working-class"?

Re: Pennsylvania - She Won..oh well, onto Indiana and North Carolina

Anonymous — Wed, 23 Apr 2008 13:45:00 -0000

n. mahana,

So which group is more likely to vote or form a 3rd party if their candidate should lose? I just don't see that happening.

MSM is pushing polling that says whites will defect to McCain in greater numbers than blacks.

Will blacks stick with the party even if Obama loses the nomination?

Re: Pennsylvania - She Won..oh well, onto Indiana and North Carolina

N. Mahana — Wed, 23 Apr 2008 13:38:00 -0000

(Rambling so if the following makes no sense...then shit happens)

@ anonymous

And basically we all know where they may feel that falls...on Black Americans and personally I think that many black voters (myself included) have aided (in the past) in being placed in the expendable category by supporting the DNC regardless of results because...what's the options? We should have been holding their feet to the fire by being willing to vote Independent and aid in creating our own rising stars.

It's not so black and white. Republican's racist, Dems our saviors...hardly. Both major parties are collectors of wealth and power with little to do with serving the people. One of the leading issues being class. Now they can ignore social injustices by using class as a wedge to divide blacks. Not to mention the same ole' same ole with gender politics with feminist's leading the charge and good ole' boy racism with blue collar whites.

We need to abolish the two-party system or nothing ever changes.

Re: Pennsylvania - She Won..oh well, onto Indiana and North Carolina

justice58 — Wed, 23 Apr 2008 13:28:00 -0000

John Edwards Endorses Barack Obama!

Re: Pennsylvania - She Won..oh well, onto Indiana and North Carolina

Anonymous — Wed, 23 Apr 2008 13:19:00 -0000

craig,

But if women vote for Mrs. Nixon because she's a woman, the poor white men don't care. They have nothing to lsoe from have a white woman as president. Especially when they're actually voting for Bill.

-----------------------------------

I think these men swing to McCain if Hillary is the nominee. 'Race/gender loyalty' yet again.

There is no denying that people vote for a candidate that they like, who they are comfortable with, who they think shares their values, that is like them. Race and gender are contributing factors among all voters and all 3 candidates.

The truth of the situation is that superdelegates are going to 'deliver' the nominee to the voters. The party is polarized and 3 main demographic constituencies risk alienation: blacks, women and blue-collar whites.

Identity politics is the defining ideology of the party. This is a Dem self-inflicted divide. Republicans split more along ideological lines: small government voters, social/values voters, low taxes voters, etc.

The superdelegates will be need to determine which group they can afford to lose. What group can be relied upon to stick with the party, even if their candidate loses.

Re: Pennsylvania - She Won..oh well, onto Indiana and North Carolina

D. — Wed, 23 Apr 2008 13:12:00 -0000

Craig,
More independent than Republican, but.....

Those type of ads-from a strategic standpoint-are best left to the 527s, which have been nonexistent of late (which is confusing). Any individual/large scale organization that does an ad like that one (1) doesn't do it well, as in this case, and (2) alienates themselves from the McCain campaign, as he can't (shouldn't?) publically associate himself with it. So he has to renounce it (not explain it away, because conservatives' standards are much higher than those of liberals), which then pisses off the individual/organization (recall the guy from-TN?-who tried to throw Obama under the bus at a McCain rally).

Re: Pennsylvania - She Won..oh well, onto Indiana and North Carolina

Cameron — Wed, 23 Apr 2008 13:06:00 -0000

John Edwards is practically irrelevant at this point. His endorsement (or lack thereof) won't change anything. It *might* have had an impact earlier on, but not now.

Re: Pennsylvania - She Won..oh well, onto Indiana and North Carolina

Anonymous — Wed, 23 Apr 2008 12:54:00 -0000

Oh and about John Edwards. he will NOT endorse. He is a coward out for his own political gain - although I don't know if it is true or not that he and Obama had a falling out about Obama's health care plan and that is why he won't endorse Obama?????

He would be a hypocrite and a coward if he endorses HRC!

Re: Pennsylvania - She Won..oh well, onto Indiana and North Carolina

RhondaCoca — Wed, 23 Apr 2008 12:52:00 -0000

I agree with B-Serous and Craig,

That is what gets me. Now that he and his campaign made those slip-ups, he has given the Republicand and Clinton supporters "material" for their further distortions. Instead of being ahead of things, he, his campaign and too many of his supporters are reactionary. There is so much on McCain and Clinton they can be pushing. Lets wait and see.

I think I posted this here but its a prime example Of Republicans using everything to race-bait Obama and his supporters. An ad from the NC GOP about Obama and Wright. It's dumby but just a preview of the crap we will have to endure:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JXxkctYRAZQ&eurl;=http://www.mydd.com/story/2008/4/23/102326/686&&

Re: Pennsylvania - She Won..oh well, onto Indiana and North Carolina

Anonymous — Wed, 23 Apr 2008 12:51:00 -0000

There is still a fundamental difference between criticizing HC on the ISSUE of special interests and saying the black dude can't win in the south. He played the race card the entire time he was in the race so people who are getting all hung up on it while still kissing his butt are being disingenuous. He also criticized Obama and accused him of taking special interest money during the debates, even went so far as to say he had over taken Hillary in that category. I just think glorifying an opportunist who only began to "care" care about blacks and poor when it was his only niche to the white house is silly. Every vote he laid down in the senate was against these same people which is why Feingold was on him like a pittbull for being the biggest opportunist in the race this year.

Re: Pennsylvania - She Won..oh well, onto Indiana and North Carolina

Angela — Wed, 23 Apr 2008 12:43:00 -0000

Sorry everyone, I posted an article of old news regarding endorsements. It had today's date so I thought it was new.....my apologies!!!!

Re: Pennsylvania - She Won..oh well, onto Indiana and North Carolina

Phia — Wed, 23 Apr 2008 12:42:00 -0000

I agree that Edwards probably won't endorse Obama. But on the flip side, he's had plenty of time to endorse Hillary as well. And yes, he did play the race card early in the campaign, but he was also WAY more critical of HRC's ties to the special interests than Obama. I think Edwards would rather wait it out with Pelosi, Dean and Gore. However, if Elizabeth starts campaigning with Hillary, this puts more pressure on him to pick a side. Also, 2 of 10 white voters in Western Pennsylvania said race was a factor, and 75% of them went for HRC.

Re: Pennsylvania - She Won..oh well, onto Indiana and North Carolina

B-Serious — Wed, 23 Apr 2008 12:41:00 -0000

On Edwards. . .

Unfortunately, I wouldn't be surprised if he endorsed Clinton, either. I had higher expectations of him. I'm hoping he doesn't disappoint.

But think of this. Is an Edwards endorsement going to carry NC for Clinton?

I don't think so. Knowing that, would Edwards put his pride and rep on the line just to back a losing candidate?

Also, I've yet to see a trend towards Hillary amongst the super delegates. An Edwards endorsement would do nothing more than make things even crazier than they are now. Hillary would get a good new cycle out of it. It would help with her fundraising. But that's about it.

Finally, I still find it hard to think that Edwards could back Clinton after all he said during the primary. I don't care if he likes her health care plan better. He would look like a complete hypocrit and opportunist.

My question. . . Does Edwards WANT to endorse Hillary? Most of her endorsements have come via loyalty to the Clinton name. Is Edwards gonna kiss the ring as well? Especially when he knows that she's not going to be the nominee? Why jump on the Titanic?