Jack and Jill Politics - Latest Comments in "I Bit My Tongue"

Re: "I Bit My Tongue"

jed — Fri, 27 Jun 2008 18:02:00 -0000

"I’m a little uncomfortable with the panacea that 'All that will change once he’s in office.'"

For good reason. Much (most?) of the change that Obama's supporters seem to expect would require Constitutional amendments. All change will require funding whose specifics must be first approved by Congress. Otherwise, the only wiggle room Obama has in enacting change will be minor procedural and logistical things in the interim budgets that he inherits from Bush.

Re: "I Bit My Tongue"

Jill Tubman — Fri, 27 Jun 2008 13:51:00 -0000

Great post, B-Serious and important update. The relationship between the CBC and Obama over the next few months/years is going to be interesting.

Re: "I Bit My Tongue"

rikyrah — Fri, 27 Jun 2008 12:20:00 -0000

FISA,

I disagree with Obama on it. I do blame the House more, because it never should have come for a vote.

I'm not going to have deep issues with him over the death penalty ruling. I don't agree with it, but that's only because I'd have the pedophile killed in prison by other prisoners.

Re: "I Bit My Tongue"

SquarePeg — Fri, 27 Jun 2008 11:03:00 -0000

Anon 2:24,

Thanks for your post. I agree with your comments both about Obama's positions of these two critical issues that disapportionately affect Black folks, and also the unwillingness of many Black folks to want to discuss these issues and why Obama is in support of them.

I was totally shocked when he said he agreed with overturning the ban on guns in Washington, DC and as for the death penalty -- WOW. Yes, it is an abomination to rape a child, but death? How many black folks have and are on death row for crimes that did not commit, or were put to death proclaiming their innocence for crimes they did not commit.

Tavis was correct and that many in our community have not fully vetted Obama on many of his positions and how they will affect THIS community. I know that he is a politician trying to get elected, but if he truly believes many of the things he is saying to get votes, regrettably, we will continue to be treated by the Democrats as we always have; a inconvenience to be used during election time, only to be discarded when no longer needed. Let's see how long our expiration date is if Obama is elected.

As you stated is this the change we can believe in, because I can't.

Re: "I Bit My Tongue"

Town — Fri, 27 Jun 2008 09:46:00 -0000

nicole said...
I understand certain people wanting to ride out for Hillary but I don't think they (CBC members) should support Obama just because he is Black. If these people are so called "Democrats" they should be rallying behind the party's chosen candidate regardless.

The question that is now raised in my mind is are these people not wanting to support Obama because of his skin tone or because of his stance on issues?

----------------

These Negroes and the Geraldine Ferraro faction are the only people still with their lip poked out. Everyone else is like "Obama is the nominee, we're behind our nominee." So that tells me the CBC and Ferraro resistance isn't political, it's personal.

I think certain people of the CBC still have their lip poked out because

a) They were promised favors and goodies in return for riding for Hillary and Obama winning messed that up, since obviously an Obama win means they won't get the favors and goodies they were promised;

b) Obama rendered them effectively useless, because they thought they were the gatekeepers to the black vote, and Obama proved you don't need to kiss the CBC's ass or get their endorsement to get the black vote.

Re: "I Bit My Tongue"

Jonzee — Fri, 27 Jun 2008 09:00:00 -0000

Greatest quoute ever in the Tuesday's NY Times from Obama. " Yeah. I don't do cowering." I think some of those folks in the CBC think he should humbly kiss the ring...and I think he probably said "I'm not kissing your a$$ get on the bus or get out the way...I'm tired of biting my toungue with y'all."

Yup, I think he cussed said y'all and wished he could have a Newport. I wonder if that would be 'black enough' for Nader? *snark*

Re: "I Bit My Tongue"

rikyrah — Fri, 27 Jun 2008 01:06:00 -0000

With regards to Hillary, found this response over at Politicalinaction.com, and went ' hmmmm''.....

Brian Francis said...

See, I think Obama has just as much leverage over her to force her to address what you're saying.

She must pay back all of those debts to small vendors all over the country. If she doesn't, she has no political future. So that means she would write another check for $10 million to clear the debts out of her personal fortune before she lets them go unpaid.

So, if she doesn't play ball, she is in the hole for another $10 million.

I personally look at it like this....Obama is telling Hillary that at the click of a button he can pay off her debt. But before he does that, he is going to hold it over her head until the convention to ensure that she stays in line. But he is also going to make sure she makes absolutely no noise about VP, which she and her prominent supporters have stopped calling for. Only the fringe nutballs call for it, not the Rendells of the world.

So i think Obama is using her weakness to his advantage very very effectively.

And I think it is why you see Bill Clinton pouting. Obama has them over a barrel.

Re: "I Bit My Tongue"

Anonymous — Fri, 27 Jun 2008 00:22:00 -0000

Thanks to Shelly and others for engaging with my questions: When is there going to be a serious discussion among Obama supporters about some of Obama’s more troubling recent positions such as his cave on FISA and his contention, which contradicts yesterday’s SCOTUS ruling, that people found guilty of raping a child should receive the death penalty?

The best explanation of why the FISA bill--which gives the White House broad surveillance powers and the telecom industry immunity--is bunk comes from the ACLU. http://blog.aclu.org/2008/06/19/this-spade-is-a...

The whole post is worth a read, but the most contentious FISA provision grants retroactive immunity for the very phone companies that compromised your 4th amendment privacy rights and mine to begin with so long as they can produce a document from the president or government asking them to comply. In short, “We were only following orders.”

There is no question of whether Obama supports it, Big Man, despite his having promised in October 2007 to filibuster any version of the bill that contains immunity for the phone companies. Here’s Obama’s statement from earlier this week supporting it: http://talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/201032.php

We can call this whatever we want, from level-headed politicking and sound political strategy to a failure of courage and principle, but either way we’re still looking at a candidate who is running on a platform of change, but perpetuating the same constitutional violations, and accommodationist positioning, that have made these past 7 and a half years such a bleak time in this country.

I don’t think it’s rude or inappropriate to ask when, where, and on what issue Obama plans to take a stand against “politics as usual.” I’m a little uncomfortable with the panacea that “All that will change once he’s in office.”

As for the death penalty, I think it’s wrong, period. But it’s particularly ironic that Obama would support it given that, as astute commentators on the Talk Left thread http://www.talkleft.com/story/2008/6/25/234840/218 noted:

“Even the SCOTUS opinion referenced the research finding that having a death penalty for child rape increases the likelihood the child will be killed to ensure the child cannot later be a witness against the offender. It also referenced the research showing that family members would be less likely to report another family member who raped a child if they thought the offending relative could be executed.”

And then there’s the fact that the death penalty is disproportionately levied against black men.

Obviously and understandably, Obama doesn’t want to be caught in the Dukakis trap and painted as “soft on crime.” But is this really the best place for the candidate of Change and Hope to make a stand?

Re: "I Bit My Tongue"

PMO2 — Thu, 26 Jun 2008 22:40:00 -0000

The reports of Barack's meeting with the CBC have had me wanting to stab myself in the eye with a fork for a couple of days. Sigh.

My friend and I were saying that for some of Hillary's female CBC supporters, it was as if they still haven't gotten over the light skinned guy in high school never asking them out, and they were sure going to take revenge on Barack as a result. That's a horrible thing to say, but that's as good a reason as anything else. Since none of it makes sense.

I wish he would have told them to grow the hell up, and stop cowering in fear of the imagined wrath of the Clintons. I mean, what do these people think Bill and Hillary can do to them?

Re: "I Bit My Tongue"

nicole — Thu, 26 Jun 2008 22:30:00 -0000

I understand certain people wanting to ride out for Hillary but I don't think they (CBC members) should support Obama just because he is Black. If these people are so called "Democrats" they should be rallying behind the party's chosen candidate regardless.

The question that is now raised in my mind is are these people not wanting to support Obama because of his skin tone or because of his stance on issues?

Re: "I Bit My Tongue"

heartsandflowers — Thu, 26 Jun 2008 22:12:00 -0000

Obama has the patience of a saint. Diane Watson was the same person who claimed Hillary was going to emerge the Democratic nominee in a backroom deal at Denver, that Obama and his contemporaries could WAIT because it was Hill time now, and how once she gives you her word and loyalty that's it. We all know quite a few of those CBC hacks need to GO! And I'm watching CNN right now. I am sick of hearing about Billy Jeff's whining and temper tantrums. The symbolism of the Clinton era has been exposed as the fraud it has always been and nothing he does will get it back. It is not Obama's responsibility to do jack! And if Clinton thinks that Obama owes him anything it just shows how wrong he is. Wow I'm counting all the Black panelists between the King and Cooper and it's 3-4 in one night!!! Should I break out some champagne? And where has Amy Holmes been hiding?

Re: "I Bit My Tongue"

KarmiCommunist — Thu, 26 Jun 2008 21:59:00 -0000

Looks like Obama is catching flack from more than just the CBC, and he has some more tongue biting to do:

Will Obama's shifting stances undermine his true-blue image?

"From the beginning, Barack Obama's special appeal was his vow to remain an idealistic outsider, courageous and optimistic, and never to shift his positions for political expediency, or become captive of the Inside-the-Beltway intelligentsia, or kiss up to special interests and big money donors.

In recent weeks, though, Obama has done all those things."

Re: "I Bit My Tongue"

heartsandflowers — Thu, 26 Jun 2008 21:56:00 -0000

OT - I'm watching Larry King right now and....let's see... he has a panel of women discussing the Obama Clinton fundraising event. There's this one segment that was just on and I'll call it 'racist white bitchfest'. A woman who claims to have been a Clinton supporter and works for a woman's group that solely focuses on sexism is supporting McCain. King asked her if she was pro-choice and against the war. Yes. Did she think Obama was guilty of sexism? 'Some of his surrogates were' was her reply. And she threw in the 'he's not qualified'. Ugh. At least the main panelists [both Dems & Repubs] disputed her tomfoolery. She was just trying to get participation in her group. Oh and she said she got a promise from McCain that he would appoint more women in his administration than any other previous one! Don't hold your breath, sweetie! Unless he means cleaning staff.

Re: "I Bit My Tongue"

TruthSeeker — Thu, 26 Jun 2008 21:21:00 -0000

@ Dummy,

Charity health care, where is this, the jungles of South America? No, the USA.

60 Minutes - Remote Area Medical

Re: "I Bit My Tongue"

Ms.Martin — Thu, 26 Jun 2008 21:12:00 -0000

Ombacans Trouble for McCain

Re: "I Bit My Tongue"

Admiral Komack — Thu, 26 Jun 2008 20:55:00 -0000

TruthSeeker said:
"I think he shouldn't reach out to them any more. Once is enough...he's the winner goddamit!"

"From now on, I think he should give them the silent treatment and let their constituents deal with them."

-Word.

Re: "I Bit My Tongue"

KarmiCommunist — Thu, 26 Jun 2008 20:55:00 -0000

Whilst I bite my tongue...here's more on:

Canadian Health Care We So Envy Lies In Ruins, Its Architect Admits

"Sick with ovarian cancer, Sylvia de Vires, an Ontario woman afflicted with a 13-inch, fluid-filled tumor weighing 40 pounds, was unable to get timely care in Canada. She crossed the American border to Pontiac, Mich., where a surgeon removed the tumor, estimating she could not have lived longer than a few weeks more.

The Canadian government pays for U.S. medical care in some circumstances, but it declined to do so in de Vires' case for a bureaucratically perfect, but inhumane, reason: She hadn't properly filled out a form. At death's door, de Vires should have done her paperwork better."

Rough, huh.

"Since the spring of 2006, Ontario's government has sent at least 164 patients to New York and Michigan for neurosurgery emergencies — defined by the Globe and Mail newspaper as "broken necks, burst aneurysms and other types of bleeding in or around the brain." Other provinces have followed Ontario's example.

Canada isn't the only country facing a government health care crisis. Britain's system, once the postwar inspiration for many Western countries, is similarly plagued. Both countries trail the U.S. in five-year cancer survival rates, transplantation outcomes and other measures.

The problem is that government bureaucrats simply can't centrally plan their way to better health care."

Re: "I Bit My Tongue"

TruthSeeker — Thu, 26 Jun 2008 20:50:00 -0000

I don't think Obama said any more than that. He knew he wasn't among friends and I don't think he'd risk anyone leaking something ugly...but, I do believe it was tense!

I think he shouldn't reach out to them any more. Once is enough...he's the winner goddamit!

From now on, I think he should give them the silent treatment and let their constituents deal with them.

Re: "I Bit My Tongue"

jed — Thu, 26 Jun 2008 20:49:00 -0000

Obama damn well better bite his tongue if he expects Congress to do anything for him as President. You know, like enact his version of nationalized health care? Until those bills pass both the House and Senate with the attendant funding, Obama's promises will be vaporware. He is very much at the mercy of the CBC.

Re: "I Bit My Tongue"

TruthSeeker — Thu, 26 Jun 2008 20:43:00 -0000

Hey stupid,

If you're going to cite articles about Canadian Health Care, you should pick ones that get their objective facts straight. You wouldn't want to misinform your fellow Americans now, would you?

Re: "I Bit My Tongue"

The Christian Progressive Libe — Thu, 26 Jun 2008 20:34:00 -0000

Here's what should have been said in that meeting:

"I have held my tongue, let all of y'all diss me, and haven't said a word. Here's the deal; homegirl needs to mend the fences since she and her man tore them down. Now, either get out of my face before I get in that ass..."

Re: "I Bit My Tongue"

rikyrah — Thu, 26 Jun 2008 20:23:00 -0000

From Marc Ambinder:

Minnesota, Michigan, Colorado, Wisconsin

26 Jun 2008 12:40 pm

These four large sample surveys from Quinnipiac....

COLORADO: Obama 49 - McCain 44

MICHIGAN: Obama 48 - McCain 42

MINNESOTA: Obama 54 - McCain 37

WISCONSIN: Obama 52 - McCain 39

suggest that the make-up and mood of the 2008 presidential electorate is right now perfectly trimmed to embrace Barack Obama. As Quinnipiac puts it, "[a]n emerging Democratic coalition of women, minorities and younger voters is propelling Illinois Sen. Barack Obama to leads." As with every statewide poll, we must wave the caution flag: these numbers can and probably will change over time.

At least the McCain campaign knows who they can target: white conservative independents, especially men. But even as McCain performs solidly with that group, the composition of the electorate is changing so much that they can't help him. (Obama, for example, is doing well with Hispanics but is doing extremely well with younger Hispanics.) Obama wins independents; he does weakest among them in Michigan, but Republicans in that state are demoralized. Some of the more interesting nuggets: In Colorado, Obama and McCain split the white vote and almost split the vote of those 55 and older; same with Michigan. The gender gap in Minnesota is huge: Obama leads by 26 points among women and seven points among men and double digits among white voters. In Wisconsin, Obama even leads among white men -- 51 to 40%. The polls have margins of error of no more than +/- 2.5%.

Re: "I Bit My Tongue"

Shelly — Thu, 26 Jun 2008 20:13:00 -0000

To Anon:

Why do you think Obama's FISA stance was a misstep? I think it was calculated. I think he may believe he'll need FISA as president. He doesn't want to tie his hands.

Also, plenty of folks (including me) had problems with the Supreme Court's ruling in the child rape case and it's impact on our ability to deter these crimes and protect children from these crimes.

I guess I'm just not sure what your problems are with his views. Please explain.

Thanks,

Shelly

Re: "I Bit My Tongue"

KarmiCommunist — Thu, 26 Jun 2008 20:10:00 -0000

'Bit his tongue?'

Wonder if they spoke about his healthcare plans?

Canadian Health Care We So Envy Lies In Ruins, Its Architect Admits

Re: "I Bit My Tongue"

Anonymous — Thu, 26 Jun 2008 19:01:00 -0000

Regarding FISA please note that:

1) Barack Obama is not the current president of the United States; George Bush is. He broke FISA and this is why this is even an issue.

2) Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid who run the House of Representatives should not have brought this bill forward. The democrats have enough people in the U.S. House of Representatives to stop these bills/recommendations, yet the Senate does not.

3) Mr. Obama definitely is not a perfect vessel (as he has stated numerous times), he is a politician. But if you think that he could push back against FISA and not be painted as soft in terror by the Republicans, please keep a score. Americans are just paying attention NOW to the fact that for two (2) election cycles they have been played by the terror issue.

Yes, terrorism to America is real, but to use it as a weapon for re-election with all of the problems we have (gas prices, home loans, home foreclosures, employment rates rising) is not appropriate.

Americans have to prioritize and keep us stable from an internal crumbling economy and safe from potential outside terrorism.

My Humble Opinion!