Jack and Jill Politics - Latest Comments in Reaction to NH Primary: Get the Patron, And Tell Em That It’s On

Re: Reaction to NH Primary: Get the Patron, And Tell Em That It’s On

baratunde aka jack turner — Mon, 14 Jan 2008 18:47:00 -0000

@problemwithcaring.

awww, i feel you too dawg, but you not getting my bud light.

seriously. nice to leave this on a positive tip. i'm off!

Re: Reaction to NH Primary: Get the Patron, And Tell Em That It’s On

ProblemWithCaring — Mon, 14 Jan 2008 18:41:00 -0000

thanks jack.

i think you've explained yourself enough on the issue. thanks for having a go at it one more time.

believe it or not, i feel you.

Re: Reaction to NH Primary: Get the Patron, And Tell Em That It’s On

The Bag of Health and Politics — Thu, 10 Jan 2008 00:31:00 -0000

A final note:

I think that the uniformed services present in down state South Carolina create at least a black working class, if not a black middle class. And I also think that uniformed service personnel (I live close to a base) are paying extremely close attention to this election.

Re: Reaction to NH Primary: Get the Patron, And Tell Em That It’s On

The Bag of Health and Politics — Thu, 10 Jan 2008 00:29:00 -0000

My source read this thread. This person was not impressed. Keep in mind that you want this person to vote for Obama. These are their words, which I mistakenly posted in another thread:

"House Negroes, um no, we're not stuck in some sort of 1940s time warp around here."

The source also noted the black establishment down state. Retired business people, military officers, etc., in Hilton Head. And said that the down state community is economically diverse.

Again, even giving the appearance of attacking people that you want to be part of a campaign is just bad strategy. Afterwards do whatever you want, but Obama hasn't lost yet. I'm just noting it's extraordinarily bad strategy to bash the most crucial group of swing voters--and yes blacks are the swing voters in this election. For the first time in my life (I'm 28), blacks are the ones with the political power. That alone is amazing.

Re: Reaction to NH Primary: Get the Patron, And Tell Em That It’s On

baratunde aka jack turner — Wed, 09 Jan 2008 19:12:00 -0000

to everyone, i am overwhelmed with the level of discussion yall got going here and i am inspired into crafting a few more posts on next steps.

in the meantime. some quick reactions cause i'm late for my show!

- I think NH will be good for O and for the nation that was swept into somehow thinking this BLACK MAN became inevitable overnight. better for this to happen now, early in the process

- Yall are right about how crucial SC and black folks are. I want a call to arms for black travelers, phonebankers and freedom riders to spread the word

@ProblemWithCaring, we agree so much when you wrote about how this is now an officially competitive campaign.

as for the title of my post, yes i love hip hop, even stuff that ain't saying much. I'm still a human being who likes a beat, a hook and a party. Our last hip hop exchange on this blog was way too long and I still didn't get my point across clearly if you think i hate all rap lyrics. I can love rap and hip hop and still find flavors of it damaging to my people. Anyway, glad we're on the same page on this post.

ok fam, i am overwhelmed at the community we have here. gotta roll now.

peace. and stay tuned. cause IT'S ON!!!

Re: Reaction to NH Primary: Get the Patron, And Tell Em That It’s On

Anonymous — Wed, 09 Jan 2008 18:12:00 -0000

The bag,

I know it sounds like I'm attacking those of us in SC, but what I'm saying it true. And yes, those "uneducated" folk may have some kind of diploma, but with no degree, it is more likely that they aren't paying attention to the details of this race and it is more likely that they don't even UNDERSTAND the details of this race. Now, I'd lived in SC for years, and I don't know anything about this diverse group of black folk with money your friend told you about. That's simply not true. I live in Charleston, the hub of black success in SC, and that's barely upper middle class for the most part.

People need to understand, folks that are gonna be voting in the SC primary looooove them some Bill Clinton. These are folks who still buy into that "First Black President" bullcrap. These are folks who don't watch Charlie Rose and don't know Bill all but called brotha Barack a "boy" while his neck turned red from the jealousy and hatred coarsing through his body. These folks don't watch the news if it ain't local and don't know about the racial smear job the Clintons did on Obama in New Hampshire last month. They still see Bill Clinton as many black folks did on the day he was elected. Happy and completely satisfied to be thrown a bone by a white president. It doesn't matter one bit what he did or didn't do for black americans. All that matters to black folks with low self esteem, is to be appreciated by whites, patted on the head. Bill Clinton has patted them on the head and they loved it. And i truly believe, if it comes down to make or break for SC to solidify a Feb. 5 sweep, I'm telling you, don't be suprised if they hand the nomination to Hillary.

I'm not trying to talk down about my own, but y'all need to be realistic and understand that we are not talking about black folks in Atlanta, Houston, Chicago, NYC, or any other metro area with millions of educated and informed and influential black folks who can't be woowed by a mammny accent and a saxophone solo.

I know it sounds harsh, but it's true. When it comes to black folk in SC, do not underestimate the love for Bill Clinton and the ingnorance of the electorate.

Those of us in the know need to get down there now and inform folks, or I'm telling you, Billary will indeed take SC.

Re: Reaction to NH Primary: Get the Patron, And Tell Em That It’s On

Kimmy — Wed, 09 Jan 2008 18:06:00 -0000

To Anonymous who used to live in SC,

Since the slave mentality is in effect, what should we, those of us outside of SC, do to bring our uninformed brethren in South Carolina out of their blind-faith devotion to the Clintons. What should we do? Should we submit commentaries to newspapers about the problem of blind loyalty of blacks to the Clintons? Should the black bloggers, who are tired of Clintons' use of black voters, unite and devote their blogs to address every attack from Clinton camp against Obama (basically become an informal attack team for Obama)? Remember how Kerry failed to launch any counterattacks against the Swift Boat veterans? We must not allow Obama to be swiftboated by the Clintons. Should every black blogger take every famous black Clinton supporter (like Magic Johnson and Andrew Young), who will be paraded throughout SC on the orders of the Clintons, to task for their opposition to Obama.

Re: Reaction to NH Primary: Get the Patron, And Tell Em That It’s On

The Bag of Health and Politics — Wed, 09 Jan 2008 17:47:00 -0000

Something I feel the need to reiterate seeing the direction this thread took:

My source described the low country as having these demographics the retired high ranking military officers, established black wealth, and black retirees that moved to Hilton Head...but also the people that clean the hotels and wait tables. In short, it's a relatively diverse socioeconomic population there.

Further, I'll note that many people described as "uneducated" here have high school diplomas, work regular middle class jobs, etc. Even among the people who were poorly educated and may only be slightly literate, the kind of nonsense found on this thread doesn't do anything to help. Those of us that support Obama want undereducated blacks to vote for him. Attacking a group that you want to vote for you is always bad campaign strategy.

Thanks for the compliment about the slaying the dragon with a smile line; the dragon is multi-faceted and incarnates cynicism, despair, and fear of the unknown. An optimistic smile helps with that too. That's why we all must smile and stop blaming people before its lost. Barack's right--yes we can. But we only can if we believe, and if we project that belief to others. I plan on smiling a lot over the next 4 weeks. I hope you will join me in doing so.

Re: Reaction to NH Primary: Get the Patron, And Tell Em That It’s On

ProblemWithCaring — Wed, 09 Jan 2008 17:41:00 -0000

Also jack, I loved your title for this blog post. I mean, its no "Ay Bay Bay," but still a catchy, little ditty about the importance of tequila as a hedge against recidivism.

But hey, speaking of saying what you really mean:

How about more "actually admitting to a conflict over your love for a popular music that crosses traditional lines of good taste, rather than simply trashing it on its PMRC-stamped face."

Like Barack did.

Re: Reaction to NH Primary: Get the Patron, And Tell Em That It’s On

ProblemWithCaring — Wed, 09 Jan 2008 17:13:00 -0000

I agree with Anon. from SC, if we are waiting for intellectually liberated black folks to "save themselves" we will be waiting a long time.

Yet, dont be fooled. Barack faces the same trials of "intellectuall liberation" in the ghettos of Los Angeles, the backwaters of Appalachia, and the subburbs of Scotsdale as he has on the college campuses.

His campaign doesn't have a race prolem. This isn't a race issue. America needs to reject the myth promulgated by the white, liberal machine, not just black folks.

Re: Reaction to NH Primary: Get the Patron, And Tell Em That It’s On

Anonymous — Wed, 09 Jan 2008 17:10:00 -0000

These are the people who get happy in church when the Clintons show up and Hillary puts on her mammy accent. They love it. They eat that stuff up. They don't want to hear all that intellectual self-empowerment mumbo jumbo Obama is spittin'. That might work in Charleston, but elsewhere, it won't.

Another great point. I think any Black Obama volunteers have to be careful about that when talking to the voters

Re: Reaction to NH Primary: Get the Patron, And Tell Em That It’s On

Anonymous — Wed, 09 Jan 2008 17:06:00 -0000

There's no Atlanta in SC. There's no big city with a massive amount of educated and informed and influential black folk. Let's keep this in mind.

Excellent point. I think it's safe to say that they're not reading blogs like Jack and Jill either - if they even know how to use email.

I think phone calls from relatable black volunteers (they will be able to tell over the phone) and visits by black volunteers will be crucial.

Re: Reaction to NH Primary: Get the Patron, And Tell Em That It’s On

Anonymous — Wed, 09 Jan 2008 17:02:00 -0000

I'm sorry, but it's true. Black folks in SC think Bill and Hill have been sent down from the Lord himself to watch over us black folks. They are not going to vote for a black man who's worked in the black community over a white woman who simply isn't repulsed by black folks. They want to be patted on the head by massa. If massa can't pat them on the head, they'll be satisfied if massa's wife pat's them on the head.

I'm telling y'all, DO NOT think that, if it comes down to SC, that black people will go for Barack. Y'all are crazy and don't understand just how uneducated we are in SC. I'm dead serious. I've lived in SC and have seen the mentality up close. These are the people who get happy in church when the Clintons show up and Hillary puts on her mammy accent. They love it. They eat that stuff up. They don't want to hear all that intellectual self-empowerment mumbo jumbo Obama is spittin'. That might work in Charleston, but elsewhere, it won't.

So I'm saying, if you have any way to get to SC or have an impact on educated the black electorate in SC, DO IT. Because if you all think Obama has this wrapped up, even if he wins Nevada, they'll use their power to pick Clinton in a NY minute, mark my words.

Re: Reaction to NH Primary: Get the Patron, And Tell Em That It’s On

The Bag of Health and Politics — Wed, 09 Jan 2008 16:36:00 -0000

I don't agree with the characterizations of South Carolina's citizens, but I do agree that the deal isn't closed. It'll take organization to get people to vote...Obama will be helped that the colleges will be in session by the time South Carolina votes, and by the fact that the election takes place on a Saturday.

Re: Reaction to NH Primary: Get the Patron, And Tell Em That It’s On

Anonymous — Wed, 09 Jan 2008 16:26:00 -0000

I used to live in SC. Let me tell you, yall are fools if you think Obama has SC on lock. I'll put it like this. Obama is a smart brotha, a cerebral brotha. Most of us in SC are not those things. Hate me if you want, but it's true. It's like the bastion of the slave mentality down there. They need n unqualified white master to lead them to the promised land, not a brilliant young black man with a brilliant black wife and kids with a history of service in the black community. That's not what they want down there. They are still living in 1948 in many ways. Obama might take Charleston and the college kids on Orangeburg, other than that, it's the uneducated and uninformed. It's the black folks who just loooove them some Bill Clinton, ok. They don't care that Hillary is for keeping brothas locked up over some petty drug crimes and if you tell them that, they won't believe it. Bill and Hill have been sent down from Jesus to take care of black folk and they would never do anything like that.

SC is a very beautiful state, but black folks there are not together.Call me a hater if you want, but it's true.

I'm not saying Obama won't win SC, but we must not be complacent and realize that because of the mass ignorance of the black electorate there, he could very much lose it. People have to get down there and inform our people, and quick. If you can volunteer, do it. If you can speak to people on the ground or over the phone, do it! But we can't get caught by suprise because I truly believe, if it's left to SC and they have a chance to elevate a real brotha or Missy Ann Clinton, massa's wife, well, they're gonna chose massa's wife.

There's no Atlanta in SC. There's no big city with a massive amount of educated and informed and influential black folk. Let's keep this in mind.

Re: Reaction to NH Primary: Get the Patron, And Tell Em That It’s On

NMP — Wed, 09 Jan 2008 16:08:00 -0000

Adam,

You are so right! Obama has to send the message that you can undue what was done in New Hampshire. Black folks have all the power in this election right now!

Re: Reaction to NH Primary: Get the Patron, And Tell Em That It’s On

NMP — Wed, 09 Jan 2008 16:04:00 -0000

"My concern is that some Black voters in SC are so conditioned to believe he can't win, that the New Hampshire loss will feed into that."

Or maybe that will be pissed that this was "stolen" from him? I'm not finding many Black women who were sympathetic to her tears. In fact, just the opposite. They see it for the ploy it was.

Re: Reaction to NH Primary: Get the Patron, And Tell Em That It’s On

nedsdag — Wed, 09 Jan 2008 15:59:00 -0000

As a woman, I was offended by New Hampshire’s female voters. They fell for the oldest political ploy: They felt sympathy for Mrs. Clinton. A sympathy that was manufactured by her handlers and her husband to show empathy and warmth. She lost the female vote in Iowa and she wasn’t about to lose that vote again in New Hampshire and she will continue to win the female vote that will put her over the top. If this is a continuing factor, then count me out of the political process.

Mrs. Clinton’s other comments regarding Martin Luther King and Lyndon Baines Johnson was sad and ridiculous at the same time. Her husband, who at one time I voted twice for and had respect for, has lost me with his "the biggest fairy tale I’ve ever seen" quote. Sadly, this gentleman will go to South Carolina and use his political skills to seduce African American voters who will fall for his shtick like they always will and help his wife win there.

She and her husband will use "plantation politics" ("But Massa Bill and Miz Hillary have been good to us!") to win in South Carolina.

Re: Reaction to NH Primary: Get the Patron, And Tell Em That It’s On

Webbuh — Wed, 09 Jan 2008 15:45:00 -0000

"Slay the dragon with a smile," I really like that quote. That's what Obama is doing and should continue to do--Be the Happy Warrior!

As for me, I'm taking on the role of extremist, ultra-liberal fanatic for *O*...even if my ideas are not extreme.

Hillary used language such as "false hopes," "taking the country backwards," and "some of us are wrong."

I'd rather have a President with false hopes than no hope at all.

If people were smart about history, they would realize that Hillary flunked on HealthCare '93 and Bill caused Democrats to lose the Congress in 1994 (THE FIRST TIME IN 40 YEARS). The only reason Bill won re-election was because the Republicans put up the erectily-dysfunctional Bob Dole against him.

The Clintons set the country on a trajectory that led to George W. Bush...Their arrogance astounds me.

What makes people think that this time will be any different?

After last night, I would bet that there are going to be more hecklers popping up at the Clinton speeches...just watch. Don't let her come to Atlanta.

...By the way, Shirley Franklin strongly endorsed Obama today in contrast to Misters Young and Lewis.

Re: Reaction to NH Primary: Get the Patron, And Tell Em That It’s On

The Bag of Health and Politics — Wed, 09 Jan 2008 14:40:00 -0000

The military vote down state could go to Obama...I think his call for personal responsibility would play well there.

Re: Reaction to NH Primary: Get the Patron, And Tell Em That It’s On

ProblemWithCaring — Wed, 09 Jan 2008 14:36:00 -0000

I'm loving this.

This makes for a more competetive campaign and has the potential to be a "history-making event" in terms of youth, urban, minority and immigrant voeter registration and trunout.

Now its a freaking race!!

Obama '08

Re: Reaction to NH Primary: Get the Patron, And Tell Em That It’s On

ronnie b. — Wed, 09 Jan 2008 13:53:00 -0000

One problem I see with the "low country" vote is that, if they're as uneducated and non-intellectual as suggested, then they might be more receptive to Hillary's shameless pandering, rather than Obama's occasional call for responsibility and accountability. Moreover, Barack is a pretty cerebral man, and really hasn't developed the knack for dumbing down his message. But this only hurts him if that segment of voters small.

My concern is that some Black voters in SC are so conditioned to believe he can't win, that the New Hampshire loss will feed into that.

As I said many months ago when folk were asking if Barack was "Black enough", it may very well be Black voters who doom his candidacy.

Re: Reaction to NH Primary: Get the Patron, And Tell Em That It’s On

D. — Wed, 09 Jan 2008 13:50:00 -0000

I'm not criticizing the black vote. I see it for what it is: an expression of opinion, and not a gauge of who's down and who isn't.

And if it's not a "simple" election, that's only because elements of society have sought to complicate it. This update of the "paper bag test" is evidence of that; it's an element that someone, somewhere threw in the midst of all the issues to stir up the pot. Spun another way, it's fearmongering; a scare tactic.

I wonder what our reaction would be were the nominees, say, Colin Powell in 2000 and Obama. How would "blackness" be defined then?

Re: Reaction to NH Primary: Get the Patron, And Tell Em That It’s On

The Bag of Health and Politics — Wed, 09 Jan 2008 13:34:00 -0000

One other note, and an important one that I omitted: the person says that South Carolina is a very polite society where things are not vehemently discussed in the open, and people are cordial.

Obama's personality matches that. The challenge is for his supporters to do so as well. We have a right to be pissed, but I think that we need to realize that you slay the dragon with a smile...

Re: Reaction to NH Primary: Get the Patron, And Tell Em That It’s On

The Bag of Health and Politics — Wed, 09 Jan 2008 13:21:00 -0000

I got a detailed report from a friend in South Carolina; this person has been traveling around the state recently and is not affiliated with any campaign. This person says that Obama has good support in the high-country, especially among younger and educated citizens. But that the vast majority are older and less educated. The person also notes that Edwards splits establishment support with Clinton (important; I also believes he splits white votes with Clinton in SC). Finally the person notes that Obama and Clinton have both focused on the midlands and the high country, especially Columbia.

The person says that there are lots of votes in the low country, and that they have disproportionate influence in the low country. The person says that all candidates have ignored the low country vote. That people usually ignore them, but that the most successful state politicians don't. The person mentions that the military vote and the veterans vote are important--even within the Democratic Party--around Charleston. This is the older, and as far as this person can tell, "undecided" vote.

The person also believes that their own personal philosophy of "personal responsibility, service , and action on a person to person level," is what really makes a difference in our society.

From this, it sounds like South Carolina is fertile ground, but the deal isn't closed.