Jack and Jill Politics - Latest Comments in Satire Or Stereotype?

Re: Satire Or Stereotype?

scooter — Sun, 20 Jan 2008 03:22:00 -0000

Arianna Huffington is the publisher of the 236 site. So that explains the promotional effort at huffpo.

http://www.236.com/about/ab...

Satire ain't easy. And it isn't always all that funny.

None of the other pieces on that web page rang irony, parody, or sarcasm bells for me. And I'm old enough to remember who Bobby Fisher was. Maybe it's the writer's strike.

Maybe I'm just sour after catching up on the Clinton shenanigans in Nevada.

Re: Satire Or Stereotype?

G.D. — Sat, 19 Jan 2008 14:22:00 -0000

But Barack Obama is running for president of the United States and should be treated with dignity.

C'mon. Really?

I couldn't agree with Baratunde more. The intent matters. It has to. There's a whole conversation not being had here about whether that imagery is inherently and immutability insulting, and if so, why it is so.

I don't think it is.

Re: Satire Or Stereotype?

Nanette — Sat, 19 Jan 2008 01:17:00 -0000

Okay, I decided to do one last check - 10pm pacific time, the photo is still there on Huff Post. They are moving other, later, stories down past it, and just leaving it there.

Me, I don't much like the Huffington Post anyway - for the longest time they had no writers of color at all, then had mainly just writers who (if they were Black) would attack Black folks.

Taylor Marsh is a lying hack, but if you want to see even wackier anti Obama stuff, go here (former CIA Larry Johnson's site, with sidekick SusanUnPC).

A fun example:

"Jim Jones’ kool-aid killed his followers. The Barack Obama version will kill the Democrats if folks keep chugging this stuff down"

I'm not even an Obama supporter, although I will vote for him in the general because of the historic nature of the election (I used to say that about Hillary too, but no more), but I'm finding it absolutely fascinating the way that even the thought of him and his uppity self opposing Clinton is causing people to just lose their minds.

Re: Satire Or Stereotype?

vwcat — Sat, 19 Jan 2008 00:27:00 -0000

I'm thinking on the wiki just posting the link to Taylor Marsh as she seems to have devolved into simply smearing Sen. Obama regardless of if it is fact or fiction from her head.

Seriously, i saw that while Hillary is trashing Obama for his remarks about Reagan and taking it out of the historical fact he was discussing, it seems she listed both Reagan and HW Bush as presidents she most admired.

Her campaign is furiously back peddling right now.

Ben Smith on Politico has a fun post about it.

Re: Satire Or Stereotype?

vwcat — Sat, 19 Jan 2008 00:23:00 -0000

I posted something on the wiki about Bill Clinton charging voter intimidation.
this may have come from the paranoia of Taylor Marsh who is making wild claims and the Sun investigated and found nothing.

anyway, Oliver Willis posted about it and thought you guys would be interested in reading this:

http://www.oliverwillis.com...

Re: Satire Or Stereotype?

baratunde aka jack turner — Fri, 18 Jan 2008 22:41:00 -0000

well i do agree it's been up there WAY too long. it ain't THAT funny we can agree.

off to make some progressive college kids laugh. peace blog world!

Re: Satire Or Stereotype?

Webb — Fri, 18 Jan 2008 21:59:00 -0000

I agree nanette, someone at HuffPo really likes that pic...I don't see how that pictorial satire is any different than Imus satirizing that women's basketball team, calling them "nappy headed ho's?"

That's what that pic feels like to me...feels like something Don Imus would've done PRIOR to getting fired...

Like I said before, I respect/cherish freedom of speech...I like tackling controversial subject matter in my own art...but when you're in the media biz and supported by advertising, you have to walk a fine-line in your editorial decisions...or otherwise be targeted by the AL Sharptons of the World.

I think that HuffPo has exercised bad judgment in propagating that pic through the blogosphere. It's worthy of Drudge or Limbaugh, not the Huffington Post.

Re: Satire Or Stereotype?

Nanette — Fri, 18 Jan 2008 21:03:00 -0000

Well, satire is great and all that (when done well - a completely subjective opinion, that).

I guess the Huff Post folks think this one is done very well, as they do seem particularly fond of this particular picture. You'll notice that, hours later, most of the page around it has changed, as new stuff goes up and other stuff gets pushed down or off the page... but that picture is still sitting right where it was (still with comments closed) - making sure that everyone gets a chance to appreciate the full satirical flavor of it, no doubt.

Re: Satire Or Stereotype?

D. — Fri, 18 Jan 2008 20:38:00 -0000

Jen,
THAT was funny (and I don't mean that sarcastically). Maybe I'll get a bump in readership after that (okay, maybe not....).

McCain fan, yes; Freeper, not really-but does any of that make what I said about Obama any less true?

But, fine: November should be fun.

Ronnie,

I think sometimes you get me mixed up. I'm not a Clinton-Bill or Hillary-fan.

And Obama is a great guide, but I'm not sure he's actually a "leader."

Re: Satire Or Stereotype?

malletgirl02 — Fri, 18 Jan 2008 19:12:00 -0000

This shows that satire is very difficult and most people suck at it. This also shows how brilliant people who are good at it are.

Re: Satire Or Stereotype?

dnA — Fri, 18 Jan 2008 18:51:00 -0000

It's not a first amendment issue. I'm not calling for the government to demand huffington post take it down. I'm arguing that the satire is self-defeating.

Freedom of speech does not include freedom from criticism.

Re: Satire Or Stereotype?

JenJen — Fri, 18 Jan 2008 17:18:00 -0000

D. said... Jenjen,
You know, techinically speaking, Magic's right...you know, first term senator, not even through his first term. Granted, Obama has experience outside the federal government which may lend some benefit...but within it, he just got here.

D., you know, if it weren't for your website (Cute John McCain quote! Nice Obama oppo!! LOVE your Immigration stance!! And your Free Republic links! If you ever wanna see some good, old-fashioned racism, just head on over to that nutbin), I might be able to take you as an honest broker. It's one thing to argue with the pro-Hillary card, but ain't no way I'm getting into it with some Freeper John McCain fan.

See you in November.

Re: Satire Or Stereotype?

The Bag of Health and Politics — Fri, 18 Jan 2008 17:03:00 -0000

Magic's right, but the reality is that Barack Obama is the most experienced candidate in the election. This 35 years of experience line is utter bullshit. She's counting 6 years she spent on Wal-Mart's Board of Directors!

Re: Satire Or Stereotype?

Webb — Fri, 18 Jan 2008 16:57:00 -0000

I'm a big 1st-Amendment Advocate too...and I'm not really bothered by the satirist/creator of the image. I respect their right to create whatever they want...

If this image had shown up on HBO's "Def Comedy Jam," I wouldn't be surprised/bothered...If the pic shows up on the front of the NYTimes, I WOULD Be bothered.

And I am concerned with HuffPo's editorial decision to showcase the image on their main page. I'm sure that there are gazillions of disgusting images of Hillary and Bill (floating around in cyberspace--created by Republicans) that HuffPo could've tapped to show...but they did not.

I've never seen a "derogatory" image of the Clintons on HuffPo (which supposedly strives to be a reputable blogging spot).

There are appropriate "venues" for this type of satire...HuffPo lost a few points with me today.

Re: Satire Or Stereotype?

Ronnie B — Fri, 18 Jan 2008 16:53:00 -0000

You know, techinically speaking, Magic's right...you know, first term senator, not even through his first term. Granted, Obama has experience outside the federal government which may lend some benefit...but within it, he just got here.

Other than Hank's experience in the Senate (and pretending like she was married to a governor and president) what's her experience?

Exactly. Not much more than Obama's, except she wants to be the HNIC. Obama wants to lead.

Re: Satire Or Stereotype?

baratunde aka jack turner — Fri, 18 Jan 2008 16:44:00 -0000

i will defend satire till the day i die.

of course the image "could" float out there independently of the context, but since when do you limit your speech because someone MIGHT take a word or phrase out of context?

imagine a group of protesters shouting "NO JUSTICE. NO PEACE" but they decide not to because they're afraid someone will only hear "NO PEACE" and take them for a violent, unreasonable mob.

google image search is no reason to NOT do satire. That makes no sense to me as an argument.

the intent here is seriously important. whoever put that piece together, in my opinion, threw a major punch at Mr. Johnson. To judge the photo without the accompanying article is like judging a punchline without the setup.

If I just said:

"..so the next day I went out and beat a white lady myself"

that makes no sense, sounds needlessly violent, etc.

But if you read the entire context:

"I was so shocked by the results in Iowa. Barack Obama became the first black man in American history to beat a white woman in public and get praised for it. Not only that, people saw it as a sign of progress. So the next day I went out a beat a white lady myself. Didn't work out as well for me."

I know images are powerful, and that's why I think this is such an indictment against Bob Johnson, but let's see this for what it is. The creators are NOT trying to dis Obama, and that is ABUNDANTLY CLEAR

and, more importantly, funny

Re: Satire Or Stereotype?

D. — Fri, 18 Jan 2008 16:35:00 -0000

Jenjen,
You know, techinically speaking, Magic's right...you know, first term senator, not even through his first term. Granted, Obama has experience outside the federal government which may lend some benefit...but within it, he just got here.

Re: Satire Or Stereotype?

annalivia — Fri, 18 Jan 2008 16:31:00 -0000

That picture is insulting, promotes negative stereotypes, and has more power than the text. On balance the whole piece is demeaning to the Obama family.
If pimp gear is acceptable satire, then Mr Johnson should be dressed like that.

But Barack Obama is running for president of the United States and should be treated with dignity.

Of course if one objects too much, it promotes the story and the picture - and the eyeballs on the post.

If you find out where we can at least post a comment (I see no comments) please post.

Re: Satire Or Stereotype?

Webb — Fri, 18 Jan 2008 16:27:00 -0000

...I can't believe that image is still up on HuffPo...

I wonder if HuffPo will post my photoshop'd picture of Massa Bill and Mistress Hillary standing on their Plantation's Porch, watching all of their slaves pick cotton under the Hot SC Sun...

Bob Johnson

Stephanie Tubbs-Jones

Andrew Young

Sheila Jackson Lee

Charlie Rangel

John Lewis

Let me go download some images from ROOTS, and start superimposing these handkerchief heads...

It's called Equal Time folks.

Re: Satire Or Stereotype?

JenJen — Fri, 18 Jan 2008 16:21:00 -0000

Magic's turn... alludes that Obama is a "hyped" "rookie" in new Clinton radio spot.

You can hear the ad on Marc Ambinder's blog on The Atlantic. Here is the script:

This is Magic Johnson. On the court and in life, successful leadership comes from hard work and experience. That’s why I’m endorsing Hillary Clinton for President. We have great candidates this year, but I believe only Hillary is a proven leader, with 35 years’ experience dealing with challenges facing America. Are you looking for better jobs, universal health care, better treatment for veterans, opportunities for your children? Then you want Hillary Clinton for President. My rookie year, we won our first game on a last second shot. I was so hyped. But the captain of my team said, “take it easy rookie, it’s a long season, it’s a long road to the championship.” He was right. Winning comes from years of hard work and preparation. Whether it’s winning championships or a President who can lead us back to greatness, I’ll always want the most prepared and experienced person leading my team. That’s why I’m asking you to join me in voting for Hillary Clinton for President.

Re: Satire Or Stereotype?

Anonymous — Fri, 18 Jan 2008 16:18:00 -0000

"A picture speaks a thousand words."

The stereotype is perpetuated.

Who benefits from the Obamas being portrayed in this manner? Beware the 'vast left-wing conspiracy' to take down Obama.

Re: Satire Or Stereotype?

D. — Fri, 18 Jan 2008 15:38:00 -0000

Ronnie,
It's a joke. It's not that serious.

Re: Satire Or Stereotype?

Ronnie B — Fri, 18 Jan 2008 15:16:00 -0000

Ok, so it might be approaching the line. It's also hilarious.

And if you see it for what it is-satire-you'll see that it's not that big a deal.

Naw, Scatman; it's satirical if it depicts John and Elizabeth Edwards. It's stereotypical -- a Black man as a pimp and a Black woman as his ho -- when it's Senator and Mrs. Obama.

Re: Satire Or Stereotype?

NMP — Fri, 18 Jan 2008 14:45:00 -0000

Earl Ofari Hutchinson has been publishing attack pieces on Obama for months. He's not just a slave, but the type of slave he would have battled on the front lines for the confederacy. BTW, he's White counter-part, Taylor Marsh was put on blast by the Las Vegas Sun for spreading erroneous stories about voter intimidation by Obama campaign staff, and they revealed she's taken donations from the same union endorsing Senator Clinton, but you won't see that on Huffingtonpost. I wish that one, just one, mainstream paper would cover the racism going on within the Democratic Party against Senator Obama.

Re: Satire Or Stereotype?

Anonymous — Fri, 18 Jan 2008 14:43:00 -0000

The principal objection was that Clinton appeared to be disrespecting Martin Luther King Jr., relegating him to mere enabler for Lyndon Johnson. But it is certainly true that Johnson was the great emancipator, second only to Abraham Lincoln in that respect. This was a function of the times. King was fighting for black enfranchisement. Until that could be achieved, civil rights legislation could only be enacted by a white president (and a white Congress).

That does not denigrate King. It makes his achievement all the more miraculous -- winning a permanent stake in the system for a previously disenfranchised people, having begun with no political cards to play.

In my view, the real problem with Clinton's statement was the implied historical analogy -- that the subordinate position King held in relation to Johnson, a function of the discrimination and disenfranchisement of the time, somehow needs recapitulation today when none of those conditions apply.

The analogy Clinton was implying was obvious: I'm Lyndon Johnson, unlovely doer; he's Martin Luther King, charismatic dreamer. Vote for me if you want results.

Forty years ago, that arrangement -- white president enacting African-American dreams -- was necessary because discrimination denied blacks their own autonomous political options. Today, that arrangement -- white liberals acting as tribune for blacks in return for their political loyalty -- is a demeaning anachronism. That's what the fury at Hillary was all about, although no one was willing to say so explicitly.

--Charles Krauthammer, Jan. 18,2008