Jack and Jill Politics - Latest Comments in State Of The Black Union Open Thread

Re: State Of The Black Union Open Thread

Anonymous — Tue, 26 Feb 2008 13:21:00 -0000

So as to not take up space I did a video about the reason Tavis got such a bad reception to his cloaked dig at Obama.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=...

Re: State Of The Black Union Open Thread

Rhonda — Mon, 25 Feb 2008 16:02:00 -0000

Ms. Hill,

I cannot not be weary of a candidate who counts on people's prejudices to win the nomination. In addition, her surrogates have all been very disrespectful of Obama in ways that I dont remember his being towards her.

Re: State Of The Black Union Open Thread

Anonymous — Mon, 25 Feb 2008 10:52:00 -0000

Luv what you do JJP !
See Official OBAMA "Hater Watch List (including Tavis)

Visit: www.Blacks4Barack.org

Obama News, Views, Issues (including Civil Rights), Photos, Volunteer Info and More !

Say It Loud...BARACK & I'M PROUD !!!!

Re: State Of The Black Union Open Thread

Anonymous — Mon, 25 Feb 2008 09:08:00 -0000

A common deceptive tactic, Miss Hill... He voted to fund the troops not in support of the war; soldiers still need to eat, have armor, have weapons and supplies even when they are in a war that should have never been authorized nor waged. We know that Senator Obama would have voted against the war resolution because he told us over and over again beginning with his speeches in 2002.

He wasn't in the Senate yet BUT he was running to get there. He made that speech at a time when Bush had overwhelming public support and anyone who disagreed with the war would have been making a dangerous decision in terms of their longevity. Senator Lincoln Chaffee was fired as one of those who voted against the war.

Obama spoke out against the Iraq war IN SPITE OF the polling that showed he would likely lose the election as a result of a stand. He had the most to lose by speaking out then because he was likely to not get elected as a result but he put conscience before ambition. He trusted in the people of Illinois to recognize his honesty and his first rate character even when they disagree much like he is betting on the national electorate to see through your spin as a mignon of Hillary to choose the best candidate for the job and the one that most represents our values & goals.

OOO

Re: State Of The Black Union Open Thread

Alethea "LeLe" Hill — Mon, 25 Feb 2008 03:10:00 -0000

I'm really not coming to J and J as a troll but I have to address madison's comments.

Obama spoke out against war in Iraq. I'm glad he did but we don't know how he would have voted. 1) He did not enter the Senate until January 2005. The Iraq resolution was passed in October 2002. 2) He opposed the war but voted twice to continue funding to war.

So what are we to on by his speech or his actions?

Re: State Of The Black Union Open Thread

madison — Mon, 25 Feb 2008 00:38:00 -0000

I wish Tavis Smiley had asked Hillary why she did not read the national intelligence report before she voted for war in Iraq. Whenever anyone brings this up to her she always says that she was "fully briefed". But noone has ever asked her 1)why she never read the report and 2) who briefed her. Every soldier who is fighting and dieing in Iraq was brought into this world by a woman,which is why i cannot understand why women were so quick to jump on Hillary's bandwagon. What is more important to them,getting a woman into the white house or choosing a president who will have the wisdom and judgement to send our military into war only as a last resort after all other options have been exhausted? Were are these ladies' priorities? It boggles the mind!

Re: State Of The Black Union Open Thread

madison — Mon, 25 Feb 2008 00:25:00 -0000

The "state of the Black Union" will be repeated on friday,feb.29, at 8pm on cspan2.

Re: State Of The Black Union Open Thread

Alethea "LeLe" Hill — Mon, 25 Feb 2008 00:16:00 -0000

Andrew Young is not running for president. Bill Sheehan is not running for president. Bob Johnson is not running for president. Andrew Cuomo is not running for president.

I can't hold a candidate accountable for idiotic comments made by their supporters. If I did, I would have to vote for Ralph Nadar if Obama won the nomination.

Re: State Of The Black Union Open Thread

brownsugaQt86 — Sun, 24 Feb 2008 18:26:00 -0000

CeCe, I'm sure that your a smart minus this one.

1. I am shocked that you have the audacity to talk about Obama supporters but what Clinton Supporters are better?

I think a lot of people even whites and even people who did not support Obama felt that the Clintons were somehow injecting race. I never hated the Clintons and I still dont. Hillary is my junior senator. However I was very disappointed. In addition, I have been especially disappointed in the way in which she has run her campaign. It wasnt just one or two supporters or comments. It became a pattern. Do you see Senator Barack Obama's supporters tearing down Hillary, the way her supporters and surrogates have on issues that have nothing to do with policies at his rallies or in statements...I haven't. Hillary's campaign has been the one taking most of the cheap shots.

2. I'm sick of people attacking Obama supporters as if we make decisions based on emotion! We are passionate about Barack Obama's candidacy. I admire his fight for legislation and constant call for government transparency. I like how he wants to engage the American people in the political process. He is not a perfect man and I dont think that he has been or will be right on every single issue. He has even acknowledged that. I will apologize if you have encountered any Obama supporters that have been aggressive or unfair. I dont support that and neither does Barack. When we speak on this site, we speak based on facts. I cannot tell you how many blogs (whose writers and readers are mostly Clinton supporters)speak based on hate, false accusations, half-truths, prejudice. You could go look for them yourself, its easy to find...trust.me!! I had a professor compare Obama to Hitler in class (she's a Hillary supporter). A Good friend of mine was a Clinton supporter, she jumped ship. They drove her away.

3. We have no problem with constructive criticizism but when I hear what I hear too often about Obama being an "empty suit" I have all right to be upset.

4. We have all the right to hold our black leadership accountable. I have been waiting for this moment. I have no problem with them supporting Clinton, my mom does, but I have a problem with their denial and the way they act like black people owe the Clintons something.

5. As for the sax crap...why would you assume that I like anyone else on this blog actually fell for it. When people were cheering for Clinton playing the sax, I watched him throw Sister Souljah under the bus in order to please white sensibilities. I watched him refuse to even out the disparity between crack and powder cocaine. I watched him "reform" welfare. I watched more and more of my brothers go to jail under his administration. The gap between rich and poor got wider. I watched him step away from Jocelyn Elders, Lani Guiner and Marian Edelman Wright. I don't give a damn about the fried chicken and waffles dish, the soul food restaurant down the street named after him. I was appalled when people actually took seriously the idea of Bill Clitnon being the "first black president". I'm from New York, I grew up in the Bx. I dont care if Clinton has his office in Harlem. A lot of white people have their office in Harlem. It is one of the least expensive part of the city. They didnt choose to live in Harlem, they live in Chappaqua...two blocks down from my friend Rachel, in one of the richest towns in the state if not country. When I look at the Clintons, I look at what they have done. They have done good but they have also done things that have affected our community in a bad way. Let me not forget the atrocity in Rwanda. I cannot sit here and act like there were things that they did while in office that did not hurt our people.

6. Its not about whose evil its about whose frontin...ok.

7. "Shuck and Jive" and the idea of it...isn't something to take lightly. Try to make him look like a drug dealer or as someone who has been doing "something in the neighborhood" shouldnt be taken lightly and the list goes on. These tactics are old and they with many of the other tactics, have been used before against our people and they are not ok. Cece and Althea, don't look for me to defend you when your...NEXT!

Re: State Of The Black Union Open Thread

tryexcellence — Sun, 24 Feb 2008 17:39:00 -0000

Response to CeCe:

Nobody is putting anybody on a hit list because of their support for Hillary. For me, the reason that Waters, Jackson-Lee, and Tubbs Jones need to go is because of their undeniable failure to bring jobs, programs, policies, etc. they uplift and empower their communities. These folks have been in power too long to not have done more for their respective communities. The fact that they are supporting Clinton when their congressional districts overwhelmingly support Obama is for me the straw the broke the Camel's back so to speak.

Re: State Of The Black Union Open Thread

Anonymous — Sun, 24 Feb 2008 16:11:00 -0000

Ms. Hill, I see your point of view and I think I understand what you're saying. I commented earlier in the thread on SJL as my congresswoman and I don't support her, mainly because of her positions on immigration. However, I am very uneasy that every person or thing that the Black community previously supported wholeheartedly can now so easily be seen as traitors because they don't support Obama. Let's not forget, when some of us were insulted that Bill Clinton would play a sax on a Black talk show, the majority of the Black community embraced him. Now,the Clinton's are evil,Tavis is evil, SJL is evil, Maxine Waters(the black community/media previously LOVED her)is evil, all supporters of Clinton. It all just seems so emotional that you can't help but wonder, who will be on the hit list next? And you are right, I hate the Clintons but those comments about MLK and S.Carolina(including all in the above post)were not racist, they were made racist by Obama supporters. It makes some of us who may be undecided think,"If I vote for him, will I hear cries of racism every time he is criticized as President?" I think his supporters have shown that is exactly what will happen and it will undoubtedly drive away some support.
CeCe

Re: State Of The Black Union Open Thread

Nichelle — Sun, 24 Feb 2008 15:42:00 -0000

I'm well aware of the wiki project. I've actually been a reader for some time. The only incidents I thought deserved comment were the ones I addressed.

You've been a reader for some time?

So that means you're fine with the Dogwhistle/race-baiting politics pointed out on this blog by Rikyrah et al, that have turned many of us against the Clintons - many of us who, mind you, were NOT adverse to the Clintons prior to these insulting tactics:

* Clinton supporter Andrew Young says Bill Clinton is "blacker than Barack" because "he's probably gone with more black women then Barack".

* Clinton campaign official (and husband of former New Hampshire Governor and current Senate candidate Jeanne Shaheen) Bill Shaheen suggests Obama may have been a drug dealer.

** HRC made a point to apologize to Obama - in full view of cameras on the tarmac of some airport - after this incident. Shaheen stepped down after this incident.

* BET Founder Bob Johnson talks about "what Obama was doing in the neighborhood" (in a speech with HRC sitting right behind him.)

** After NO ONE bought his b.s. "I was talking about his community service excuse" Bob Johnson apologized for his comment.

* Clinton supporter Andrew Cuomo (son of former NY Gov. Mario Cuomo and current NY Atty. General) uses "Shuck and Jive" in reference to Obama.

** A politically sophisticated man born in 1957 uses the term "shuck and jive" casually? Oh sure...

Re: State Of The Black Union Open Thread

tryexcellence — Sun, 24 Feb 2008 14:19:00 -0000

"I agree - please, someone, anyone, run against Tubbs-Jones. Shelia Jackson Lee as well."

and Maxine Waters, John Lewis and all of these other folks who need to step aside but won't.

Re: State Of The Black Union Open Thread

Alethea "LeLe" Hill — Sun, 24 Feb 2008 13:51:00 -0000

I'm well aware of the wiki project. I've actually been a reader for some time. The only incidents I thought deserved comment were the ones I addressed.

Re: State Of The Black Union Open Thread

TheLocMan — Sun, 24 Feb 2008 13:07:00 -0000

Great posts!! If anyone, ANYONE, has the Jesse Jackson video from the SOTBU (where he was comparing biblical scriptures about John as a metaphor for the criticisms raised against Obama), PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE post the link. I would LOVE to see that!!! Thanks in advance if you have it and can post it!!

Re: State Of The Black Union Open Thread

Anonymous — Sun, 24 Feb 2008 12:37:00 -0000

Money and power are the issues that fuel Tavis's anti-Obama sentiments. I give you three facts:

1 - Wal-Mart (on whose board of directors Hillary sat while first lady of Arkansas) is sponsoring his mega-five-city (big $$$) museum tour.

2 - Bill Clinton is (shamelessly) hawking his latest book on Tavis's website.

3 - Tavis thinks his *movement* (The "so-called" Covenant) is more important than Barack's *movement* to be America's first REAL black president. If you recall, last year's SOTBU was marred, yes marred, by the attacks launched by the panelists (Jackson, West and Dyson spring to mind) against Obama -and supported by Tavis - BECAUSE on that same day Barack Obama was announcing his presidential candidacy in Illinois, rather than at their bullshit-psycho-babble-I-ain't-really-a-black-leader-but-I-play-one-on-TV fest.

For nine years, Tavis has insisted that he's our guide to salvation - if we buy his books. Frankly, as a dear friend pointed out, Tavis is like the guy at the laundromat selling socks from a garbage bag. Truth is, I've already got socks. And they'll be dry in 10 minutes. Don't try and sell me something I do not need.

Tavis is a loser. The Q&A; with Hillary was pathetic. He's definitely not a journalist. But he did spend the night at a Holiday Inn Express.

Re: State Of The Black Union Open Thread

Anonymous — Sun, 24 Feb 2008 12:00:00 -0000

Do you think jealousy is what's fueling Tavis Smiley's anti-Obama sentiments?

Re: State Of The Black Union Open Thread

BigMik — Sun, 24 Feb 2008 02:59:00 -0000

So Ms. Hill, you think Senator Obama can't wheel and deal and negotiate with elected officials? Let's get one thing right, he has been dealing and fighting his whole life. At Havard he was the first Black to head the Havard Law Review and that's not easy, then he was elected to the State senate and before that he was beaten, so he has tasted defeat and bounced back strong. Then he was elected to the US Senate and that wasn't a cake walk. So is he a fighter? Yes. So I fully don't agree with your argument.

Re: State Of The Black Union Open Thread

rikyrah — Sun, 24 Feb 2008 02:11:00 -0000

Ms. Hill,

If you think that, when I refer to Dogwhistle, race-baiting politics, that it has to do with the MLK/LBJ comments EXCLUSIVELY...

Sorry, Black folk aren't that ' sensitive'.

Click on the Wiki to the left of the blog. I do believe we've up to 40 such incidents.

Re: State Of The Black Union Open Thread

Sun, 24 Feb 2008 01:00:00 -0000

Tavis "The Hater" Smiley's behavior at the SOTBU was both transparent and ridiculous. He tried to scold Jesse for saying something positive about Obama in the 1st session, yet alowed Sheila Jackson-Lee (D-Texas) to go on a 10 minute pro-Hillary rant in the second session. Also, he did not allow room for discussion among the panelists; they had to sit and wait their turns to be asked one of his narrowly-framed questions with which he tried to lead them to tear down Barack. None of the pro-Barack panelists fell for it. Fortunately neither did anyone in the audience (I was there). Tavis exposed himself as the hater he is, and I've lost all respect for him.

Re: State Of The Black Union Open Thread

Anonymous — Sun, 24 Feb 2008 00:40:00 -0000

I won't repeat points because I read the comments and it has almost all been said. Except this. Thank gosh for C-Span cameras. That camera man was hot on the trail following Hillary after the benediction. And what I saw was very disturbing. A couple of our so-called leaders and Obama supporters (one in particular) followed Hillary from the middle of the stage to the end licking her pumps all the way out of the door. I was both surprised and embarrassed for the brother. It reminded me of the descriptions in my African-American history classes discussing how some slaves loved massah no matter what and would pretend to be down with other slaves but reporting to master when he thought no one was looking. I'm talking about you Dyson. I saw you. One hand shake and aiss kiss is enough but to put your nose up into from the center of the stage begging for her attention time and again was WOW.

Brother you are not authentic, just like so many others. I now understand why Tavis knew he could count on you to bust up Jesse's point and to defend those who took the wrong stand and were there begging us to not fire them. As Tavis said, "Thank you Dr. Dyson. Thank you for framing it like that for those of us who have been thrown under the bus. Thank you for breaking it down." Well I say, "Thank you C-span camera man. You may not have know exactly what you had in the frames of those shots but you had awakened me from a bamboozled moment. You exposed a pretender amongst us because I don't think I have seen a Black man grovel so much to the Missus since Morgan was Driving Miss Daisy."

I saw you Dyson and I am embarrassed that you above others felt you needed to lick those pumps. Do you and Tavis know something about some electronic vote tampering we can expect and you want to get in the cracked door now? Your speech in defense of Hillary and her supporters at the end of the morning wasn't lost on me because I saw it for what it was more plainly when I saw you bowing and scraping at her feet from one side of the room to the other. I shake my head as I type this. I always pay attention to the detail while everyone else is whooping and hollering on cue; the devil lives in the details.

Re: State Of The Black Union Open Thread

Alethea "LeLe" Hill — Sat, 23 Feb 2008 23:17:00 -0000

Bill Clinton's actions in SC were (as described by Debra Dickerson, another J and J favorite) "sphincter-like". Bill Clinton isn't running for President, he's campaigning for his spouse. He put his foot in his mouth like Mrs. Obama did. Unlike Michelle, he didn't graciously clarify his statement.

As for the comment about MLK made by Hillary (clutch the pearls), those were statements of historical fact. MLK did awaken the nation. He and the other leaders of the movement galvanized the community into action. He vocalized the ideal of what this nation should be in his actions and words.

MLK was not an elected official. He was not part of the legislature. He could not pass legislation. He could not enact legislation. it was LBJ who signed the CIvil Rights Act into law.

Do you really believe that the a majority of the politicians who voted for the Civil Rights Act did so because it was the right thing to do? Hell no. There was a lot of wheeling and dealing going on. It was LBJ's experience as a legislator that forced the issue through. He knew what branches to shake.

That's the point Hillary was making. That yes, we need advocacy but we also need experience players

to enact change. There was nothing racist about it.

In my opinion, it was the Obama supporters who racialized the issue.

Re: State Of The Black Union Open Thread

rikyrah — Sat, 23 Feb 2008 22:46:00 -0000

And in case you don't know what I'm talking about in the above post, click on the clintonattacksobama. wiki button at the left of the page.

We've been keeping track.

Re: State Of The Black Union Open Thread

rikyrah — Sat, 23 Feb 2008 22:45:00 -0000

I am black woman and I can only speak for myself. I truly believe that Hillary is the best person for the job, black or white, male or female, young or mature.

I accepted this UNTIL South Carolina, when they attemped to Dogwhistle Racebait Obama. Post South Carolina, sorry, I don't have respect for any Black defenders of Clinton.

IF a Republican had done to Obama what the Clintons did, the' usual suspects' would be up in arms.

Their silence speaks volumes.

BUt, I'll ask you.....how do you rationalize supporting someone who racebaited a Black candidate and continues to do so, with regards to Black and HIspanic voters?

Re: State Of The Black Union Open Thread

Alethea "LeLe" Hill — Sat, 23 Feb 2008 22:23:00 -0000

After reading the comments on Jack and Jill, you would think a black woman who supports Clinton is mentally deficient or a race traitor. Aren't we allowed to be sophisticated in our political views?

Did I miss the committee meeting? Was there a memo?

Who decided that if I don't vote along racial lines I'm a Mammy?

Perhaps you all are as myopic in your opinions as (you claim) Tavis and company to be?

I am black woman and I can only speak for myself. I truly believe that Hillary is the best person for the job, black or white, male or female, young or mature.