Jack and Jill Politics - Latest Comments in The Attempt to Dehumanize Michelle Obama

Re: The Attempt to Dehumanize Michelle Obama

Princess King International — Sun, 01 Jun 2008 10:39:00 -0000

The one thing that I have found recently within the Democratic Party is the racism...very strange, I should not be surprised, and now I feel kind of duh!. The Democratic platform is one in which our goals are common, end the war, strengthen public schools and teachers, universal healthcare, etc. So we do have common goals with people who are racist. Put it together. This is why the Black Caucuses are important both locally and National.

Re: The Attempt to Dehumanize Michelle Obama

Anonymous — Sun, 01 Jun 2008 01:42:00 -0000

"The thing about Kos is that any yahoo can post there. "

So true. That's its virtue and its downside.

All kinds of crazies post on Kos. Including literal crazies who think the government is reading their minds -- those diaries are interesting to say the least.

Abhorrent stuff like this may posted by people who, charitably, may be too stupid to know what's wrong with it -- which wrongness is explained quite well by you, thanks!

In this case I'd hope that's what's going on -- that the artist didn't think of the red dress issue, and was otherwise trying to indicate that the Republican Party leadership were like KKK members and would quite honestly try to torture and kill Michelle Obama if they could -- without realizing that the image itself is a PTSD trigger. (Given that the Republican leadership are actually literally ordering kidnappings and torture, and claiming that they're good things, I can see where such a person would be coming from.)

Or sometimes stuff like that is just posted by truly abhorrent bigots.

Re: The Attempt to Dehumanize Michelle Obama

Dr. Psycho — Sun, 01 Jun 2008 01:41:00 -0000

The image is excessive and over-the-top. That much is made obvious by the number of people who look at it and jump to a half-baked conclusion that it is intended to be racist, anti-Obama, &c.;

I am disturbed that anyone thought this was a good idea.

I'm also disturbed by how many people are too witless to look past the superficial form of the image to parse out its meaning.

For crying out loud, people, the branding iron reads "UPPITY LIBERAL"!

Re: The Attempt to Dehumanize Michelle Obama

Michelle — Fri, 30 May 2008 00:09:00 -0000

Hey beachmom, thanks for clarifying that One Citizen made the image. I know it was obvious and I shouldn't have needed that, but it hung me up somehow and I did.

D, I don't think I entirely understand all of what you're saying about who it was assaulting -- since in seeing it I feel it, strongly, as viscerally violent toward the actual person who is in it as the target of the violence it portrays.

But I guess I would say this: If the white creator of that image did it primarily as a communication to other white people, then that to me is yet another layer of ugly. Because that is yet another layer of making Michelle Obama, a Black woman, into an object to be used for communication between whites.

And just in general: there is NO doubt in my mind that white liberals and progressives from all over the country can and often do practice racism/white supremacy. I have seen it over and over again in my life.

Re: The Attempt to Dehumanize Michelle Obama

rikyrah — Thu, 29 May 2008 23:26:00 -0000

s,

that image was the equivalent of visual C-4.

How many of us know how to handle C-4?

and, this person didn't either.

There should have been something that said ' stop', ' wait up'. I believe the racebaiting in this Democratic race has desensitized folks.

The picture alone should have been the diary. There truly were no words that could be more powerful than his visual C-4.

Re: The Attempt to Dehumanize Michelle Obama

Anonymous — Thu, 29 May 2008 23:19:00 -0000

A thought experiment:

An image Cindy McCain being raped by a gang of black men donning Obama logos was posted on a right-wing blog.

"My take is that the artist feels he is creating a satirical cartoon about those who promote racism in this political season. He is mocking them. He does not necessarily have to possess this belief system in order to create this cartoon: he simply understands it. He is saying this is what they are trying to do to Cindy."

Acceptable? Excusable?

Re: The Attempt to Dehumanize Michelle Obama

Thu, 29 May 2008 23:02:00 -0000

rikyrah,

So, in your update are you willing to excuse this Obama supporter because he was really attacking whites who criticize Michelle's statements?

What about the whites, like me, who view this and are rightly offended? Do we deserve to be compared to the evil, murderous KKK simply for engaging in debate?

Make no mistake, questioning Michelle Obama's view of this country maybe considered unfair by Obama supporters but it is NOT the same as torture and murder! This image is insulting and comtemptuous towards whites.

But why have consideration for my feelings? I am a human being. A woman. A loving wife. A devoted mother. A successful professional. Intelligent. Smart.

White. Conservative. And not worthy of being defended against charges of racism?

Re: The Attempt to Dehumanize Michelle Obama

beachmom — Thu, 29 May 2008 22:19:00 -0000

Michelle,

Yes, to be clear, "One Citizen", who hails from West Virginia, is a Kos diarist and CREATED the image. It was an anti-GOP diary about the Southern Strategy (the image is now gone from the diary). It is my view, given what we have learned of the underbelly of WV (and even trying to give SOME benefit of the doubt with explanations from Jim Webb on the culture there), that that place has a pretty damned bizarre way of viewing things. It is a different kind of racism there, based purely not on experience but ignorance and fear of the unknown. They are fearful of Obama, not just for being black, but for his strange name. Maybe even that he lives in Chicago.

One Citizen has written a couple of diaries on race, where it is clear that he is sympathetic to those who have suffered under racial injustice. However, One Citizen is so far removed from the African American experience, he just is hopelessly tone deaf and does not understand how hurtful the image he created is. I also think there is some truth to the idea that it has come too easy for Democrats to paint the GOP as the "racist party", while sweeping under the rug race problems it has in its own party.

Anyway, I agree that the photo is so unbelievably out of line and wrong.

Re: The Attempt to Dehumanize Michelle Obama

Thu, 29 May 2008 21:09:00 -0000

michelle,

I feel that the creator of this image cares nothing for the feelings of the viewer. It is an in-your-face assault on whites, not Michelle Obama, meant to drive home a political point.

Make no mistake, the message is: the GOP is as racist and evil as the KKK and whites who criticize Michelle Obama are guilty of the equivalent of rape, torture and murder! No one should be offended because, after all...it's true.

Bittergate...true

Rev. Wright...true

Michelle Obama's comments...true

Bush = Hitler...true

Whites who take issue with comments made by Michelle Obama, or dare to challenge the veracity or ideology contained therein are the ones who are being hatefully and disgustingly portrayed.

Dehumanizing Michelle Obama is necessary in order to reveal the truth. She is being portrayed as a victim of evil.

IMO, nothing could be further from the truth.

Michelle's Obama's comments are open for criticism and can be intelligently and thoughtfully refuted, defended or explained without having to resort to expressing nothing less than vile, hatred toward those with whom one may disagree. But this is an all too prevalent tactic of the left for avoiding candid debate and crushing dissent among those who disagree with their viewpoint.

This image reinforces the very worst in all people, preying on fear and hatred toward those with whom one may have a disagreement.

Re: The Attempt to Dehumanize Michelle Obama

Loni Elder — Thu, 29 May 2008 21:08:00 -0000

jelana said...
"My take is that the artist feels he is creating a satirical cartoon about those who promote racism in this political season. He is mocking them. He does not necessarily have to possess this belief system in order to create this cartoon: he simply understands it. He is saying this is what they are trying to do to Michelle."

Exactly. Context is everything and I picked it up immediately.

Re: The Attempt to Dehumanize Michelle Obama

shakes her head, shrugs her sh — Thu, 29 May 2008 20:12:00 -0000

He is a white Obama supporter. Who cares how offensive this is to black people?

Re: The Attempt to Dehumanize Michelle Obama

jelana — Thu, 29 May 2008 19:51:00 -0000

My take is that the artist feels he is creating a satirical cartoon about those who promote racism in this political season. He is mocking them. He does not necessarily have to possess this belief system in order to create this cartoon: he simply understands it. He is saying this is what they are trying to do to Michelle.
Granted, not one of us would ever create such a cartoon; it is too deep

a wound for us.

Re: The Attempt to Dehumanize Michelle Obama

Jill Tubman — Thu, 29 May 2008 18:58:00 -0000

Some people still don't seem to understand how powerful and destructive racial hate imagery can be. Where's the link to the diary that posted this? I'd like to see the comments over there about this. Truly, truly disturbing. The right wingnuts treat Condi Rice with more respect than this in general.

Re: The Attempt to Dehumanize Michelle Obama

Elle Xavier — Thu, 29 May 2008 18:52:00 -0000

"Whether you mean it or not, racism is racism. I am with you."

So using racist imagery to decry racism is racist?

Re: The Attempt to Dehumanize Michelle Obama

evita — Thu, 29 May 2008 17:28:00 -0000

Anonymous said...
Many white folks KNOW, the question is, will we excuse, write it off it from one of our 'own' in the Dem party?

Compare this to the 'curious george' t-shirt, and ask yourself how is this different? Is this worse?

Does party loyalty really merit excusing racist actions?

I say NO!

___________________________

Anon I agree with what you are saying. My point is that that for every one white person who understands the FEAR, RAGE, and TRAUMA perpetuated with the imagery 's use there are many white people who think its just rude because of the emotional distance they have from slavery and Jim Crow.

If all white people understood the deep emotional wreckage that still exists in our society I believe deeply that white people who we the ones tearing down the site themselves. I believe there is a lack of empathy in our society and it stems from true ignorance.

Whether you mean it or not, racism is racism. I am with you.

Re: The Attempt to Dehumanize Michelle Obama

anj — Thu, 29 May 2008 17:27:00 -0000

I don't know whether it should have been posted or not, what I do know, as a white 47 year old woman, is that it is easy for me to hide in my protected bubble of privilege and not face the inherent race bias or lack of oneness with woman of a different culture, and an image like this is vile (evil) enough to shake me out of that complacency. And look at my own reaction, my silence and take steps to live what I say I believe.

I wasn't silent when the race-baiting started and I won't silent about this; and when an AA women is portrayed in this manner it diminishes all of humanity. Thanks for reminding us of the importance of building bridges, at the same time holding firm that there is that which is intolerable.

Re: The Attempt to Dehumanize Michelle Obama

Loni Elder — Thu, 29 May 2008 16:32:00 -0000

I think some people have trouble registering irony.

I have to admit that it's difficult to offend me but I don't find this offensive at all.

And you people who think that you shouldn't use "offensive" - which is subjective - language and images to make a point that you even you would agree with have been living in a politically correct world for way too long.

Re: The Attempt to Dehumanize Michelle Obama

D. — Thu, 29 May 2008 16:07:00 -0000

S,
Black people "expect" racism from the GOP because in most of their eyes, the GOP has thrown them under the bus.

Most are so busy looking for racism there that when it comes from another liberal, they feign shock and ignore the equally racist history of the democratic party.

There's blood on all sides, but only one gets mentioned.

Here's my question (and Komack, feel free to take a stab): why is it that whenever something's mentioned about Barry or Michelle, the liberals have to try to find something that's equally as "bad" about McCain or his wife?

Is tit-for-tat really helpful to anyone's strategy?

Re: The Attempt to Dehumanize Michelle Obama

Admiral Komack — Thu, 29 May 2008 15:53:00 -0000

"But if the GOP wants to do this Southern Strategy crap by going after Michelle Obama, then they'll find Cindy McCain and her drug addiction and her possible affair on the front pages of the newspapers as well."

-NOOOOOOO!

Not Cindy McCain!

Not Mrs. Straight Talk Express!

I'm shocked, SHOCKED, I tell you!

Re: The Attempt to Dehumanize Michelle Obama

Michelle — Thu, 29 May 2008 15:50:00 -0000

Oh no. That image is just horrible.

And: I may not entirely understand the context -- am I correct in understanding that this image was actually MADE by someone who posts at Daily Kos? (I know this should be obvious but this is disorienting me and making my perception fuzzy somehow, and apparently I'm not able to fully focus.)

I've played with making images, nothing this elaborate by any means. But the thing is: given what I have experienced and the concentration needed to put things together, my take is that to make something like this takes sustained attention in a way that .... what am I trying to say here? .... it requires some sort of sustained attention that implicitly requires a sort of spiritual acceptance of what the image says.

And I really don't know if that's the right way to say it, whatever I am trying to describe .... it's just that to my perception, making such an image would require the maker to be acting from a sort of a historical-spiritual-political (if that's the right way to put it) inner deadness to what that image is saying and how it feels, its violence.

I can't seem to get past this piece, the actual making of the image and the state that someone would have to be in to be able to do it. I can't seem to get past that for some reason, I don't know why.

And I'm sorry if any of this is redundant or incoherent; I really am significantly disoriented right now by the violence of the image.

Re: The Attempt to Dehumanize Michelle Obama

Thu, 29 May 2008 15:46:00 -0000

d,

I don't think there are ANY good intentions behind that image. It is meant to stir up hatred between blacks and whites in the GOP.

I contend that the Democrats have repeatedly and deliberately promoted, exploited the GOP as the 'racist party' for its own political gain.

Of course you don't know many Republicans/conservatives who would sign on to the KKK, nor do I, because it is greatly exaggerated.

But the charge is viciously repeated and thrown around just as freely as the Bush/Hitler meme in progressive/Democrat circles.

As you can tell by the comments here, people 'expect' this to come from the GOP. Why is that? Are there those in the Democrat just as culpable in promoting racism?

Look no further than this horrible image and you have your answer.

Yet many blacks are content to make broad sweeping assumptions about the GOP as a racist party while being ignorant or tolerant of it in the democrat party.

One Citizen is responsible for fomenting hatred against his fellow man.

Re: The Attempt to Dehumanize Michelle Obama

heartsandflowers — Thu, 29 May 2008 15:28:00 -0000

Sorry but just because the image makes you feel uncomfortable does not mean we should ignore it! This was coming from someone who is supposedly an ally of Barack's, but he spoke the language of the enemy. And One Citizen is UNREPENTANT. See he refuses to accept responsibility for putting up such a negative image of a Black woman and entirely misses the point of why it is TOTALLY INAPPROPRIATE!

Quote from comment section -

"You have to admit that the sensationalist image snagged a lot more readers though.

BTW I took that image down long before anyone realized it. I figured I'd take it down as soon a I hit a certain number of comments.

I still think that it was entirely appropriate, historically accurate and politically relevant.

Besides, it was an ILLUSTRATION, a FICTION not a PHOTO.

I still don't get what all the uproar was about mainly because only one person bothered to really articulate their feelings.

As for the photo of dead bodies comment, I think you'd agree that if they'd show more of Iraq "collateral damage" on TV we likely would have been out of Iraq long ago.

The photo doesn't seem to be getting nearly as many rightwingers yelling to take it down as the illustration of GOPers in Klan whites, does it?

Wonder why that is?"

It is not for HIM to decide what is offensive.

Re: The Attempt to Dehumanize Michelle Obama

Progressive for A Better Ameri — Thu, 29 May 2008 14:28:00 -0000

Look, whatever the Daily Kos diarist's intent, the photo shouldn't have been posted either there or on HERE. I totally agree with beachmom's posts, and I'm a black woman who has paid more than lip service to black causes and promoting black pride.

Either of you only needed to include a link to the offensive item because, you see, I am just as offended when it is blatantly posted on this black-owned site as I would have been had I seen it posted on Daily Kos or any other so-called caucasian site.

I don't usually go into every diary posted on DKos, nor here on JJP. In fact, I first saw the heinous photo on the black site Panache Report where, just like here, they carefully made mention of it being on Daily Kos.

I'll repeat it again - posting it here is just as insensitive as others posting it elsewhere. At least to this black women it is.

The situation is as beachmom said - Daily Kos is getting disparaged although everyone who's online regularly knows, it is difficult to monitor hugely trafficked blog sites that are purported to get something like 500,000 hits per day, as Daily Kos is said to receive.

In fact, in Daily Kos's FAQs, Markos spells out the difficulty of web life with ever present trolls around to wreak havoc at will. Not saying that particular diarist was a troll, but y'all understand what I'm saying.

Although I perfectly understand your intentions here, IMO, there's not much room for dissing Daily Kos, where the image has been removed from the link posted here, when you're leaving a virtual footprint to the offensive photo.

It's like black folks getting mad at white people for using the 'n' word by using the excuse that it's a term of endearment or a means of creative expression when it ain't; it's just a terribly derogatory and offensive word that isn't fit to be used by anyone for any reason, same as the 'b' or 'c' word is for women.

No one should be posting that photo anywhere online, then claim righteous indignation at the repugs or whoever while mimicking their behavior.

I still love this site and Daily Kos and I don't plan to halt frequent visits to either, but right is right, no matter what color you are.

The right thing to do is to take down that photo, to not be a party to its continued discussion and distribution online or anywhere else. It just ain't right now, it ain't right.

Re: The Attempt to Dehumanize Michelle Obama

D. — Thu, 29 May 2008 14:26:00 -0000

agenttx,
When did O'Reilly "literally" try to lynch Michelle Obama?

Did I miss something?

Re: The Attempt to Dehumanize Michelle Obama

D. — Thu, 29 May 2008 14:23:00 -0000

S,
I see your point. When I fist saw the picture, I cringed....more because I was afraid of what it meant for the GOP than the imagery.

But the more I thought about it, I didn't see it as an attempt to smear the GOP....simply because I don't know of any black Republicans/conservatives willing to cosign on the activities of the KKK.

I think this kinda transcends politicial ideology. Liberal, conservative, independent...the picture invokes certain feelings that can really set you off.

I can't even see the good intentions behind coming up with something like that.