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Until now, I have never disliked Bill nor Hillary. In fact, I totally admired her. Now, I can't even stand the notion that I may have to enter a polling place and vote for her in November.
Think about the Gen Y'ers and others who would not even think twice about NOT voting if she should be the nominee rather than Obama.
Barack is my Senator and he is the equivalent of the late Mayor Harold Washington: a figure who drives people to the polls; to participate in democracy; to be inspired and engaged.
On the other hand, the Clintons are just so darn angry that my Senator is making them work for their prize, or in their eyes, their entitlement.
Only recently have a gone back and looked over the record, and thought about what actually happened, and developed a different opinion.
First, I still think it was mostly a witch-hunt on the part of the Republicans. That said, if you look back over everything objectively, its hard not to come to the conclusion Bill is a scum bag.
Here's one of the most powerful men in the world leveraging that power to get sex from a 22 year old woman who is essentially in his employment. Second, he got her to lie about it to protect himself from another sexual harrassment claim. Even before you get to the actual perjury and stripping of his ability to practice law, thats some sleazy behavior.
If this had been the head of Wal-Mart, or Ford, or any other company a lot of the same people (hello Gloria Steinman) trying to get him back into office would have raised hell.
I can understand the impulse among Democrats (and I'm definitely a liberal) to sort of dismiss the whole thing and try to move on without considering the actual abuse and lawlessness involved, because it is was so damaging to progressive causes.
What I cannot understand is how supposed feminists like Steinam take that thought process and self-deception to the point where they actually want him back in power. Its super depressing.
I could give a shit about faith and religion, personally. But to see that a) evangelicals are no longer in the pocket of Republicans, b) plenty of the older white ladies are simply not feeling Clinton or the Pubs, and c) that apparently the whole smear campaign hasn't worked is really, really refreshing.
Also, I am totes relieved to find out my mom isn't secretly racist. High five, mama!
I used to be a big Clinton (both Bill and Hillary) supporter. So imagine my disappointment when they decided to take this route on the road to the White House.
I expect the racist Republican Party to use such tactics, but not the Clintons!
I've always thought it was ridiculous that Toni Morrison called Bill Clinton was called the first Black president, as if we could never actually elect a real Black person for the job.
I've had this vision in my head for a few days now: Black Americans coming together and voting Obama into office. Like, as a movement. Using all of our hope and turning it into our future.
I know it can be done. And I've never felt so close to the Black community as I do now.
http://www.slate.com/id/2182745/
Supporting Hillary Clinton in the general election is devaluing the black vote for years to come. What we would be telling future politicians is that you can do and say anything to black people and at the end of the day they will still support you because you’re a democrat.
I think that would be a very regretful mistake by the black community if we support her in the general election. Not to mention support of Hillary in the general election is essentially forgiving her for her racist strategy. Which could potentially knee cap other black presidential candidates in the future because the black community never rebuked the Clinton tactics, so what would stop someone 30 years from now doing it to another black candidate?
I’m curious to here what others think based on my premise.
• Not voting for Hillary, will ensure that the tactics used be the Clintons will never be used by another white candidate.
• Not voting for Hillary will strethen the black vote for years to come as politicians will see us a voting block that they now have to respect if they want our vote.
I personally see this as an opportunity to turn the page with in our old community and as an opportunity to wrestle the rains of black leadership from those who falsely claim it.
Great post.
I’m simply pointing out what I think we should be prepared to do, should the Clintons racist strategy work.
I also think this is an opportunity to reexamine our black leadership. How can you be a member of the National Black Caucus (NBC), yet not support a black candidate? If the members of the NBC can turn on their own college (Obama) than they surely can turn on the communities they represent. I don’t think that’s a far leap. In my mind its certainly something that needs to be further examined.
Here's a suggestion: If Hillary gets the nom, blacks should write-in Obama in Nov.
Tomorrow is going to be an interesting day...For those of us who support Barack Obama, I think that tomorrow evening (regardless of the outcome) we should all expect an extraordinary speech/statement from him. I'm sure that he's preparing remarks that will consider all of the CLinton activities this week and leverage them in a way that enhances his candidacy. As the scripture says...
ANY WEAPON FORMED AGAINST ME SHALL NOT PROSPER.
This week has been quite definitive...the truth is that this week has set a trajectory that will determine whether the next President will be Barack Obama or someone else. The Clintons have taken steps that could ultimately alienate Caucasians away from an Obama Candidacy...they may have forever, irreparably damaged him with the power of their tongues.
This week is also one which historians should study closely(depending on tomorrow's outcome) to ascertain...
1. How a political party can be destroyed.
2. How playing the "race card" can kill your own chances of overall victory.
After this week of events, I do not see any chance of Hillary Clinton being elected. The only way that she could be elected is if the republican nominee is caught burning a cross in an African-American family's yard...and CAUGHT ON TAPE.
Even then, I'm not voting for the ##$@#.
What Bob Johnson and many other prominent blacks did to Obama is no different from black on black crime, it’s probably worse.
Now that all the major media outlets are saying that the Clintons purposely injected race into the presidential race. I wonder how the richest house negro in history Bob Johnson feels about the role he played?
Progress can be is easily measured. Either you moving forward or your not. If blacks don’t learn from this and make a strong stand, we will have moved backwards without even knowing it.
http://americanresearchgroup.com/
Clinton is not within 3 points of Obama,well within the margin of error. According to this poll, she could very well win the primary. We'll see tomorrow if this is an outlier or not. But it is the most recent poll and the last poll, the last snapshot before votes are cast.
Now, I was on here maybe two weeks ago talking about how it is terribly sad for the black community and Obama that the first black folks to have a say in the election are SC black folk. I said it then and I'll say it again, they are ignorant and uninformed and easily swayed, all one has to do is repeat talking points over and over again, and they will fall in line. I said last week that if Clinton won Nevada and it was up to SC blacks to tie up the race, they would drop the ball and pick Clinton. In this latest poll, the internals show that Clinton has gained among blacks and Obama has lost blacks.
I'm just letting yall know, I said last week don't be suprised if this goes down something funny tomorrow with a win for Clinton. I've said for years that the first black folk to have a say in the general election should not be our most ignorant, low income folks who haven't read any book other than the bible. It should be Georgia or North Carolina or Illinois, some state with a sizeable educated upwardly mobile black electorate.
Now, hopefully that poll is wrong and Obama wins by 15 points tomorrow. But I'm not sure that's going to happen and the fact that Obama has lost black support while Clinton gained in just a few days is not a good sign at all.
Black people, I said that when push comes to shove, when they had the power to decide after a NV by Clinton, them niccas down in South Carolina would go with master's wife over a black man.
All I can say is, I hope to God I am completely wrong and that it's a blowout for Obama tomorrow, but I got a bad feeling about this. The fact that Obama has lost black support while hillary has gained black support in just a few days is not a good sign at all.
Don't be shocked if hillary wins tomorrow.
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2008/president/sc/south_carolina_democratic_primary-234.html
Now, like all of you, I feel completely betrayed by the Clintons. Not just stabbed in the back, but slapped in the face. What's worse is that in 1992 when Clinton was running, he was young and inexperienced. Now, how is Bill attacking Barack? By saying that he is... young and inexperienced. That Hillary has more "experience," even if that experience is as First Lady. Barack actually has been in elected office for four years LONGER than Hillary.
Finally, I'll just say this. Just because right-wing lunatics hate her, doesn't mean they're wrong. If you haven't yet done an Internet search to find some of the outrageous (and VERY biased) things she has said, do it now. I won't post the slurs, but here are some other quotes, all of which come from books and none of which have been seriously disputed:
"Who is going to find out? These women are trash. Nobody's going to believe them." (on Bill's "little problem" with women)
"We are the president."
"Why do I have to keep proving to people that I am not a liar?"
"You know, I'm going to start thanking the woman who cleans the restroom in the building I work in. You know, maybe that sounds kind of stupid, but on the other hand I want to start seeing her as a human being."
"F--- off! It's enough that I have to see you s---kickers every day, I'm not going to talk to you too!" (To a Secret Service agent who greeted her with "Good morning")
To the blogger who disparages AA in South Carolina, you should STHU. Who made you the arbiter of who uses common sense and doesn't. There are countless numbers of AA who have graduated from college, yet lack any semblance of motherwit, you know good old fashioned common sense.
The common sense that would tell this poster, that besides not knowing what you are talking about, it amounts to a baseless and classless attack that I'm sure they would not make against you.
Your attacks amount to the same logic used by racist against AA. Put down your pen and sit and THINK about your negative, condescending,and all too familiar tones of what happens when the so-called boogies weight in.
Check yourself, before you wreck yourself.
That is not alright with me. I am furious that that seems to be alright with so many so-called progressives. If I didn't know better (and maybe I don't) I'd think that a lot of people are more comfortable with the status quo and their place within it than they'll admit to in so many words. I shouldn't take it out on you personally, which is silly anyway since you wrote your comment anonymously. But the flim flam that's been going down, and the 'get over it's and the 'they don't matter anyway because they're this niche voting block' remind me too much of what goes down in dysfunctional households where people harm one another and think it's ok because you have to love and support family.
It's all fun and games until the fun and games affect you. The Clintons expect things to 'be alright' in the end, because all that matters is getting the brass ring. Once it's gotten then everything else is water under the bridge. Democrats will be 'forced' to support them, for the good of the party. And afterwards, nothing matters because they'll be in the whitehouse -- winning ugly is still winning.
Are they right? Should they be?
I honestly believe that casting a vote for the Clintons is not a vote for the Democratic party, it's a vote for the Clintons' methods. If you 'hold your nose', it doesn't matter that you are uncomfortable; it matters that you are going through with it. I'm sure some folks 'held their nose' by attending lynchings for appearances sake. I can't support the Clintons' methods; and I strongly believe that anyone who buys into the 'but the Republicans are worse' and 'we need those Supreme Court seats' and single-issue sleight of hands like 'abortion' and 'gay rights' and 'affirmative action'.......learned NOTHING from what happened to Republicans who held their nose for George W. Bush for the sake of 'the Democrats are worse' and 'we need those Supreme Court seats' and single-issue sleight of hands like 'abortion' and 'gay rights' and 'affirmative action'. Those issues are deep and need to be addressed, but in election years they are used not for themselves but as overblown scare tactics; and that infuriates me.
People need to look at what Republicans got, before being ready to support what the Clintons are offering.
I'm so proud of Obama. You don't see Obama's face turning red, getting puffed-up, upset, pointing fingers at the press. Obama is more presidential than that FORMER PRESIDENT. Nor do you see Obama about to break into tears, whining, "some of us are right, some of are wrong," fearful about losing an election.
...but a quick observation on the Clintons and their notion that, "The negroes will come back to us in the general election."
The Clintons must not understand AAs as much as they might think they do. I can not think of anytime in our history where my people have literally PUNK'D out ourselves collectively.
The notion that I would go into a voting booth and pull the "Hillary"-lever after they have viciously savaged Barack...I would feel worse than JUDAS betraying Jesus. I would be a PUNK. And I promise you FedUp, I am going to be "My Brother's Keeper." Brother not only in the sense of race, but more importantly in the sense of unity for all peoples in this country...a United America.
No matter how hard the Clintons try, they don't stand a chance in hell of uniting this country. And I will work actively against them.
Also, to discuss AA political history and community issues does not negate the hope for wider, inclusive political change.
I haven't bought into anything, FedUp. I mentioned blacks writing in Obama's name in Nov. in response to the topic of black voters teaching the DNC/DLC that they cannot use us when it's convenient for them. By all means, I would encourage ALL of Obama's supporters to do the same. :)
When they need us, they loved us. When they didn't, onto the Latino/a's. And trust, if the Latino/a's fall out of favor, they will get dropped too.
So Hilary wins, I'm voting for McCain. Period. Like Webb, if I go in that booth and pull the lever for Hilary I will basically saying I'm ok with what they did . . . and encouraging other people to do it again in the future.
I think in many ways this conversation represents the beginning of a fundamental change in not only AA politics but politics as a whole.
I think we have to rethink our party affiliation perhaps we should independents, who and how we vote and the methods in which we hold politicians accountable. Obama’s platform of accountability and transparency should be demanded and applied to all politicians moving forward. .
Great discussion, I really appreciate the viewpoints
The conduct of the Clintons in these past few weeks has been deplorable and despicable and I have lost all respect I had for them. I met Clinton when I was in college and his campaign was full of an awe-inspired hope that he must have either forgotten or just been faking all along. If I met him now I would be hard pressed not to spit at his feet.
That being said, you forgot about his Black Hawk Down debauchery in Somalia and his ruination in the Balkans. In retrospect, there wasn't a month that went by that he wasn't messing up something around the world. He just made us feel better about it then Bush did. Obama '08!
This hold that we have allowed the Democratic party to have on us is not healthy at all. Mandatory sentencing and welfare reform happened because Clinton knew he could phuck us over and we would take it....and we did indeed take it. And now a whole generation of black men have been locked up and we're reeling over this as a community, but that never would have happened had we not sold our souls to the Dem party.
-It's going to take all of us to clean up the Republican mess.
Bill:
Another reporter asked what it said about Obama that it “took two people to beat him.” Clinton again passed. “That’s’ just bait, too. Jesse Jackson won South Carolina twice, in '84 and '88. And he ran a good campaign. Senator Obama's run a good campaign here, he’s run a good campaign everywhere.”
Ok, I think Bill's true colors have been revealed. I hope the MSM picks up on this tomorrow.
Also is anyone else confused. Is Bill running for Pres. He spoke and was televised BEFORE Hillary. She sent a letter to the networks. So now people are voting for Bill? WTH?
http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2008/01/26/611927.aspx
Carolyne Kennedy is endorsing Barack Obama tomorrow.
Obama 55
Clinton 25
Edwards 19
Enough said.
But the details:
Blacks:
Obama 81
Clinton 17 (that's Republican levels of black support there).
Whites:
Edwards: 40
Clinton 35
Obama 25
Among whites:
"Were the Clintons attacks on Barack Obama fair or unfair?"
Fair 32%
Unfair 68%
This has backfired on Billary!