Jack and Jill Politics - Latest Comments in The Clintons, Black Folk and America – A Reckoning

Re: The Clintons, Black Folk and America – A Reckoning

The Bag of Health and Politics — Sat, 26 Jan 2008 20:52:00 -0000

Also among whites under 30: Obama 50%.

Re: The Clintons, Black Folk and America – A Reckoning

The Bag of Health and Politics — Sat, 26 Jan 2008 20:51:00 -0000

South Carolina:

Obama 55

Clinton 25

Edwards 19

Enough said.

But the details:

Blacks:

Obama 81

Clinton 17 (that's Republican levels of black support there).

Whites:

Edwards: 40

Clinton 35

Obama 25

Among whites:

"Were the Clintons attacks on Barack Obama fair or unfair?"

Fair 32%

Unfair 68%

This has backfired on Billary!

Re: The Clintons, Black Folk and America – A Reckoning

Michelle — Sat, 26 Jan 2008 20:39:00 -0000

Here's another for you wiki -- I don't want to mess it up.

Bill:

Another reporter asked what it said about Obama that it “took two people to beat him.” Clinton again passed. “That’s’ just bait, too. Jesse Jackson won South Carolina twice, in '84 and '88. And he ran a good campaign. Senator Obama's run a good campaign here, he’s run a good campaign everywhere.”

Ok, I think Bill's true colors have been revealed. I hope the MSM picks up on this tomorrow.

Also is anyone else confused. Is Bill running for Pres. He spoke and was televised BEFORE Hillary. She sent a letter to the networks. So now people are voting for Bill? WTH?

http://firstread.msnbc.msn....

Carolyne Kennedy is endorsing Barack Obama tomorrow.

Re: The Clintons, Black Folk and America – A Reckoning

Admiral Komack — Sat, 26 Jan 2008 20:07:00 -0000

"I think it’s important to point out that even though we are talking about race. WE ARE ALL OBAMA SUPPORTERS and we appreciate each other equally. The last thing I want is some of the Caucasian obama supporters to feel uncomfortable or left out. I think what many of us are saying is that a lot of AA feel betrayed by the Clintons and many AA elected officials because they have done the unthinkable…played the race card."

-It's going to take all of us to clean up the Republican mess.

Re: The Clintons, Black Folk and America – A Reckoning

bay — Sat, 26 Jan 2008 17:04:00 -0000

Swaniboy, after we get, hopefully, Obama to the White House, I think there should be a big push to get blacks to register as Independent. I know I will. There should be a big campaign headed maybe by younger black political and community leaders.

This hold that we have allowed the Democratic party to have on us is not healthy at all. Mandatory sentencing and welfare reform happened because Clinton knew he could phuck us over and we would take it....and we did indeed take it. And now a whole generation of black men have been locked up and we're reeling over this as a community, but that never would have happened had we not sold our souls to the Dem party.

Re: The Clintons, Black Folk and America – A Reckoning

Nancy — Sat, 26 Jan 2008 14:29:00 -0000

If Hillary wins the primary, I would rather vote a Republican into office than 1)see Hillary win the presidency or 2) waste my vote by not voting at all. I like the anonymous suggestion to write-in Obama on the ballot in November if it comes to that though.

The conduct of the Clintons in these past few weeks has been deplorable and despicable and I have lost all respect I had for them. I met Clinton when I was in college and his campaign was full of an awe-inspired hope that he must have either forgotten or just been faking all along. If I met him now I would be hard pressed not to spit at his feet.

That being said, you forgot about his Black Hawk Down debauchery in Somalia and his ruination in the Balkans. In retrospect, there wasn't a month that went by that he wasn't messing up something around the world. He just made us feel better about it then Bush did. Obama '08!

Re: The Clintons, Black Folk and America – A Reckoning

swaniboy — Sat, 26 Jan 2008 14:05:00 -0000

I think it’s important to point out that even though we are talking about race. WE ARE ALL OBAMA SUPPORTERS and we appreciate each other equally. The last thing I want is some of the Caucasian obama supporters to feel uncomfortable or left out. I think what many of us are saying is that a lot of AA feel betrayed by the Clintons and many AA elected officials because they have done the unthinkable…played the race card.

I think in many ways this conversation represents the beginning of a fundamental change in not only AA politics but politics as a whole.

I think we have to rethink our party affiliation perhaps we should independents, who and how we vote and the methods in which we hold politicians accountable. Obama’s platform of accountability and transparency should be demanded and applied to all politicians moving forward. .

Great discussion, I really appreciate the viewpoints

Re: The Clintons, Black Folk and America – A Reckoning

Anonymous — Sat, 26 Jan 2008 13:45:00 -0000

The race question needs to be turned around. Pundits should be asking can Hillary Clinton get the black vote? She has not proven that she can get the black vote. She has had various black politicians, ministers, etc. to endorse her, but that is not the black vote. She cannot win without the black vote. If she thinks that black people will vote for her by default, she is mistaking. Her behavior is serving to suppress black people’s vote in the general election.

Re: The Clintons, Black Folk and America – A Reckoning

Adam — Sat, 26 Jan 2008 13:41:00 -0000

I have got to echo Webb's comments, as a young brotha, watching the Clintons play us so blatantly has made it clear it to me that they have no friends, only pawns that they move as the political winds blow.

When they need us, they loved us. When they didn't, onto the Latino/a's. And trust, if the Latino/a's fall out of favor, they will get dropped too.

So Hilary wins, I'm voting for McCain. Period. Like Webb, if I go in that booth and pull the lever for Hilary I will basically saying I'm ok with what they did . . . and encouraging other people to do it again in the future.

Re: The Clintons, Black Folk and America – A Reckoning

Anonymous — Sat, 26 Jan 2008 13:34:00 -0000

"Anonymous, why should only blacks write in Obama? Shouldn't whites and latins and asians and everybody else be upset at what the Clintons are doing? See, I can't get with this -- what you are suggesting is exactly what the problem, and exactly what the Clintons are exploiting. You've bought into the balkanization of the vote. So Obama becomes a 'black' candidate dealing exclusively with 'black' issues, a niche candidate; instead of a universal candidates all voters can choose to support or not support."

I haven't bought into anything, FedUp. I mentioned blacks writing in Obama's name in Nov. in response to the topic of black voters teaching the DNC/DLC that they cannot use us when it's convenient for them. By all means, I would encourage ALL of Obama's supporters to do the same. :)

Re: The Clintons, Black Folk and America – A Reckoning

Michelle — Sat, 26 Jan 2008 13:29:00 -0000

I don't think anyone was suggesting only Blacks write in Obama. The conversation here is not a separatist one. In fact, I think I said or was trying to say Demos, Indep, and Repubs -- anybody--who supports Obama should show their support in Nov.

Also, to discuss AA political history and community issues does not negate the hope for wider, inclusive political change.

Re: The Clintons, Black Folk and America – A Reckoning

Webb — Sat, 26 Jan 2008 13:25:00 -0000

@FedUp, I agree about Obama's universal traits. He continues to champion a universal concept of American exceptionalism inspite of the Clintons trying "place him in a box," and make him the "Black" candidate.

I'm so proud of Obama. You don't see Obama's face turning red, getting puffed-up, upset, pointing fingers at the press. Obama is more presidential than that FORMER PRESIDENT. Nor do you see Obama about to break into tears, whining, "some of us are right, some of are wrong," fearful about losing an election.

...but a quick observation on the Clintons and their notion that, "The negroes will come back to us in the general election."

The Clintons must not understand AAs as much as they might think they do. I can not think of anytime in our history where my people have literally PUNK'D out ourselves collectively.

The notion that I would go into a voting booth and pull the "Hillary"-lever after they have viciously savaged Barack...I would feel worse than JUDAS betraying Jesus. I would be a PUNK. And I promise you FedUp, I am going to be "My Brother's Keeper." Brother not only in the sense of race, but more importantly in the sense of unity for all peoples in this country...a United America.

No matter how hard the Clintons try, they don't stand a chance in hell of uniting this country. And I will work actively against them.

Re: The Clintons, Black Folk and America – A Reckoning

Fed Up — Sat, 26 Jan 2008 11:49:00 -0000

Webb, of course there won't be any change. I figure that's exactly what the point is. Some people DON'T want change -- and I don't mean don't want change from Bush.

It's all fun and games until the fun and games affect you. The Clintons expect things to 'be alright' in the end, because all that matters is getting the brass ring. Once it's gotten then everything else is water under the bridge. Democrats will be 'forced' to support them, for the good of the party. And afterwards, nothing matters because they'll be in the whitehouse -- winning ugly is still winning.

Are they right? Should they be?

I honestly believe that casting a vote for the Clintons is not a vote for the Democratic party, it's a vote for the Clintons' methods. If you 'hold your nose', it doesn't matter that you are uncomfortable; it matters that you are going through with it. I'm sure some folks 'held their nose' by attending lynchings for appearances sake. I can't support the Clintons' methods; and I strongly believe that anyone who buys into the 'but the Republicans are worse' and 'we need those Supreme Court seats' and single-issue sleight of hands like 'abortion' and 'gay rights' and 'affirmative action'.......learned NOTHING from what happened to Republicans who held their nose for George W. Bush for the sake of 'the Democrats are worse' and 'we need those Supreme Court seats' and single-issue sleight of hands like 'abortion' and 'gay rights' and 'affirmative action'. Those issues are deep and need to be addressed, but in election years they are used not for themselves but as overblown scare tactics; and that infuriates me.

People need to look at what Republicans got, before being ready to support what the Clintons are offering.

Re: The Clintons, Black Folk and America – A Reckoning

Fed Up — Sat, 26 Jan 2008 11:31:00 -0000

Anonymous, why should only blacks write in Obama? Shouldn't whites and latins and asians and everybody else be upset at what the Clintons are doing? See, I can't get with this -- what you are suggesting is exactly what the problem, and exactly what the Clintons are exploiting. You've bought into the balkanization of the vote. So Obama becomes a 'black' candidate dealing exclusively with 'black' issues, a niche candidate; instead of a universal candidates all voters can choose to support or not support.

That is not alright with me. I am furious that that seems to be alright with so many so-called progressives. If I didn't know better (and maybe I don't) I'd think that a lot of people are more comfortable with the status quo and their place within it than they'll admit to in so many words. I shouldn't take it out on you personally, which is silly anyway since you wrote your comment anonymously. But the flim flam that's been going down, and the 'get over it's and the 'they don't matter anyway because they're this niche voting block' remind me too much of what goes down in dysfunctional households where people harm one another and think it's ok because you have to love and support family.

Re: The Clintons, Black Folk and America – A Reckoning

SquarePeg — Sat, 26 Jan 2008 07:59:00 -0000

WTF is the insistence on trying to pit one group of AA against another?

To the blogger who disparages AA in South Carolina, you should STHU. Who made you the arbiter of who uses common sense and doesn't. There are countless numbers of AA who have graduated from college, yet lack any semblance of motherwit, you know good old fashioned common sense.

The common sense that would tell this poster, that besides not knowing what you are talking about, it amounts to a baseless and classless attack that I'm sure they would not make against you.

Your attacks amount to the same logic used by racist against AA. Put down your pen and sit and THINK about your negative, condescending,and all too familiar tones of what happens when the so-called boogies weight in.

Check yourself, before you wreck yourself.

Re: The Clintons, Black Folk and America – A Reckoning

Anonymous — Sat, 26 Jan 2008 05:49:00 -0000

When Hillary and Bill were running in 1992, I was 16 and was SO excited by them! Here was a young, liberal, hip couple! Bill played the sax on Arsenio! Hillary was pretty! Chelsea was endearingly awkward! And like most Clinton supporters, I spent the next eight years rationalizing what he was doing to the country (and to his interns). When the Monica thing broke I thought it was a Republican witch hunt, but I cringed. This is how the leader of the free world treats people?

Now, like all of you, I feel completely betrayed by the Clintons. Not just stabbed in the back, but slapped in the face. What's worse is that in 1992 when Clinton was running, he was young and inexperienced. Now, how is Bill attacking Barack? By saying that he is... young and inexperienced. That Hillary has more "experience," even if that experience is as First Lady. Barack actually has been in elected office for four years LONGER than Hillary.

Finally, I'll just say this. Just because right-wing lunatics hate her, doesn't mean they're wrong. If you haven't yet done an Internet search to find some of the outrageous (and VERY biased) things she has said, do it now. I won't post the slurs, but here are some other quotes, all of which come from books and none of which have been seriously disputed:

"Who is going to find out? These women are trash. Nobody's going to believe them." (on Bill's "little problem" with women)

"We are the president."

"Why do I have to keep proving to people that I am not a liar?"

"You know, I'm going to start thanking the woman who cleans the restroom in the building I work in. You know, maybe that sounds kind of stupid, but on the other hand I want to start seeing her as a human being."

"F--- off! It's enough that I have to see you s---kickers every day, I'm not going to talk to you too!" (To a Secret Service agent who greeted her with "Good morning")

Re: The Clintons, Black Folk and America – A Reckoning

Eric — Sat, 26 Jan 2008 03:28:00 -0000

Let me preface this by saying that I'm a white progressive and that Barack Obama is not my first choice for the nomination. However, I've been following this blog for the last couple weeks and I've come to the conclusion that I cannot, and will not support the Clintons if they get the nomination. I grew up in the '90s and I have a certain nostalgia for the Clinton administration (especially compared to the current one) but I will not vote for someone who uses racism in any way, shape, or form to win an election. I for one will not be sorry when Hillary sleazes her way to the nomination and then loses 40states to John McCain. If the Clintons want to use bigotry and racism to win then it's about time for them and all their filthy surrogates to get the hell out of the Democratic party. I support John Edwards, but I will gladly caucus for Barack Obama in February in Virginia if it means doing what I can to beat the Clintons and put a REAL progressive in the White House.

Re: The Clintons, Black Folk and America – A Reckoning

Francis — Sat, 26 Jan 2008 02:18:00 -0000

RCP averages show Obama has a double diget lead in SC.

http://www.realclearpolitic...

Re: The Clintons, Black Folk and America – A Reckoning

Anonymous — Sat, 26 Jan 2008 00:31:00 -0000

Here is the last poll completed this evening for the SC primary.

http://americanresearchgrou...

Clinton is not within 3 points of Obama,well within the margin of error. According to this poll, she could very well win the primary. We'll see tomorrow if this is an outlier or not. But it is the most recent poll and the last poll, the last snapshot before votes are cast.

Now, I was on here maybe two weeks ago talking about how it is terribly sad for the black community and Obama that the first black folks to have a say in the election are SC black folk. I said it then and I'll say it again, they are ignorant and uninformed and easily swayed, all one has to do is repeat talking points over and over again, and they will fall in line. I said last week that if Clinton won Nevada and it was up to SC blacks to tie up the race, they would drop the ball and pick Clinton. In this latest poll, the internals show that Clinton has gained among blacks and Obama has lost blacks.

I'm just letting yall know, I said last week don't be suprised if this goes down something funny tomorrow with a win for Clinton. I've said for years that the first black folk to have a say in the general election should not be our most ignorant, low income folks who haven't read any book other than the bible. It should be Georgia or North Carolina or Illinois, some state with a sizeable educated upwardly mobile black electorate.

Now, hopefully that poll is wrong and Obama wins by 15 points tomorrow. But I'm not sure that's going to happen and the fact that Obama has lost black support while Clinton gained in just a few days is not a good sign at all.

Black people, I said that when push comes to shove, when they had the power to decide after a NV by Clinton, them niccas down in South Carolina would go with master's wife over a black man.

All I can say is, I hope to God I am completely wrong and that it's a blowout for Obama tomorrow, but I got a bad feeling about this. The fact that Obama has lost black support while hillary has gained black support in just a few days is not a good sign at all.

Don't be shocked if hillary wins tomorrow.

Re: The Clintons, Black Folk and America – A Reckoning

swaniboy — Fri, 25 Jan 2008 23:20:00 -0000

No matter what the outcome is to tomorrow. The events over the last week should serve as a notice to the black community. The light has been shined on the Clintons, Bob Johnson, and too many black congressmen to name.

What Bob Johnson and many other prominent blacks did to Obama is no different from black on black crime, it’s probably worse.

Now that all the major media outlets are saying that the Clintons purposely injected race into the presidential race. I wonder how the richest house negro in history Bob Johnson feels about the role he played?

Progress can be is easily measured. Either you moving forward or your not. If blacks don’t learn from this and make a strong stand, we will have moved backwards without even knowing it.

Re: The Clintons, Black Folk and America – A Reckoning

Webb — Fri, 25 Jan 2008 23:06:00 -0000

LOVE THIS POST!

Tomorrow is going to be an interesting day...For those of us who support Barack Obama, I think that tomorrow evening (regardless of the outcome) we should all expect an extraordinary speech/statement from him. I'm sure that he's preparing remarks that will consider all of the CLinton activities this week and leverage them in a way that enhances his candidacy. As the scripture says...

ANY WEAPON FORMED AGAINST ME SHALL NOT PROSPER.

This week has been quite definitive...the truth is that this week has set a trajectory that will determine whether the next President will be Barack Obama or someone else. The Clintons have taken steps that could ultimately alienate Caucasians away from an Obama Candidacy...they may have forever, irreparably damaged him with the power of their tongues.

This week is also one which historians should study closely(depending on tomorrow's outcome) to ascertain...

1. How a political party can be destroyed.

2. How playing the "race card" can kill your own chances of overall victory.

After this week of events, I do not see any chance of Hillary Clinton being elected. The only way that she could be elected is if the republican nominee is caught burning a cross in an African-American family's yard...and CAUGHT ON TAPE.

Even then, I'm not voting for the ##$@#.

Re: The Clintons, Black Folk and America – A Reckoning

Michelle — Fri, 25 Jan 2008 22:02:00 -0000

Wouldn't that be something. Obama supporters, regardless of race, would do that. Now I would wait in line for that.

Re: The Clintons, Black Folk and America – A Reckoning

Anonymous — Fri, 25 Jan 2008 21:58:00 -0000

"I’m simply pointing out what I think we should be prepared to do, should the Clintons racist strategy work."

Here's a suggestion: If Hillary gets the nom, blacks should write-in Obama in Nov.

Re: The Clintons, Black Folk and America – A Reckoning

Michelle — Fri, 25 Jan 2008 21:51:00 -0000

Certainly. And I like Obama's bottom-up approach to change. We have forgotten that The People have the power, not the politicians. Wouldn't it be funny if districts mobilized and said they are not going to vote their representatives back in office if they do not come out STRONG for Barack. Imagine. Right now we act like they own us, like they know better.

Re: The Clintons, Black Folk and America – A Reckoning

swaniboy — Fri, 25 Jan 2008 21:38:00 -0000

By no means am I conceding anything. I believe Obama is by far the best candidate. I think his election strategy (staying close in the big states. CA, NY, NJ and beating Hillary by a wide margin in the purple states) is a winner.

I’m simply pointing out what I think we should be prepared to do, should the Clintons racist strategy work.

I also think this is an opportunity to reexamine our black leadership. How can you be a member of the National Black Caucus (NBC), yet not support a black candidate? If the members of the NBC can turn on their own college (Obama) than they surely can turn on the communities they represent. I don’t think that’s a far leap. In my mind its certainly something that needs to be further examined.