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The job of the media is to manipulate the stories that are received by the American public and influence the thinking of the American public.
The coverage has been unfair and biased and just proves that America will never change.
I am really mad at Obama nor at the church, I am mad at the media for their distortion.
As I said, Obama should have left from when he knew he was running for president. he would have saved UCC the heartache. He allowed the media to create the narrative which should have never happened!! At that point, he was put on the defense. No other narrative could be told.
I meant to say that, I am not really mad at Obama nor the church.
Its his personal choice to leave the church. And this last scandal by the white pastor? I dont get it. Did Barack ever seek this guys endorsement?
PS: Barack is only 60 delegates away!!!!!!!
http://www.blackagendareport.com/index.php?option=com_content&task;=view&id;=636&Itemid;=1
Divine Love Does Not Ask Family To Choose Between Family Members
And a FAMILY MEMBER who makes that choice...
What's the word, again?
>>> UNACCEPTABLE !!! <<<
So stop excusing that bs!!!
If folks cared half as much about results as they did about throwing they fist up, we wouldn't even be here.
White folks say JUMP! Obama is in the air, "is this high enough?"
UNACCEPTABLE!!!
Stop that Clinton-like blaming OTHER people besides Barack himself.
Just knowing Trinity's Mission Statement (2) years ago, Obama would have had to have addressed it or divest from it. I predicted he would leave his CHURCH Hook or by Crook and he pretty much was chased to (Capitol) Hill because of it.
I won't lie, I watched the Rev. Pfleger and found it funny, almost MAD TV/Livin' Color funny but I will also be honest and say what Rev. Michael Pfleger preached is what and how BLACK FOLK think and talk behind closed doors everyday about this election so for Black people to be up in arms and pointing fingers at the MEDIA, we all need to OWN UP and Keep It Real. The way Black folk talked, voted, turned on Black politicians, Super Delegates, Tavis Smiley, Julian Bond and many others we need to watch out for all those stones we are dropping in the Glass House.
Now what will they want him to give up next week? His black wife and children? Denounce his black side? What will it be? It want stop at this.
Giving in to white guilt because a white man told the truth about a white woman. Damn.
Maybe this is that surprise that Hillary was waiting for, not the one that everyone was expecting, but the one where black folks were told by a half-black man to kiss his ass, but vote for me anyway.
Obama just cried Toby.
Oh by the way, when was the last time anyone saw Obama at a majority Black town hall meeting? Somebody help me out.
Toby, Toby!
"His black wife and children?"
Michelle is next....they have been on her for a while.
It is a big fault of the media who distorted the situation and I cannot get over that.
Obama should have had forsight and been on this....he knew!
Black people are sitting around and allowing a lot to go on. I hope that they dont have to regret it.
Two problems I have with Obama are this:
1) He is too REACTIVE instead of PROACTIVE
2) He's a shape shifter; he becomes whatever the situation calls for
A) Too many times, stuff has broken out and Obama sits back and reacts and lets other people dictate the story. In my opinion with this Trinity Church situation he shouldn't have run to Fox News and said he wasn't sitting there when Rev. Wright said those things. That's going to come back to bite him. One of those church members if not Rev. Wright himself is going to pop up in October and say that Obama is lying and he WAS sitting there. Even if Obama truly WASN'T sitting there people have their minds made up and they will believe the church member or Rev. Wright before they believe Obama.
B), he should have said he does not agree with everything his pastor says and he stayed in the church because of the wonderful community outreach and positive impact they have on the youth or something like that. IMO he did throw Rev. Wright under the bus FIRST with the race speech by describing him as a "crazy uncle."
C) With the flag pin issue, he should have said "Hey, we are sending our troops over there with bad equipment, crappy living conditions, no relief for their mental health and when they come back we pretty much dismiss them and don't reward them for putting their lives on the line for us. Treating the troops like crap is not patriotic. Wearing a flag pin made in China has nothing to do with patriotism.
D) With the Michelle "proud" statements, they should have said, Hey with the rising price of gas, the deficit skyrocketing, crumbling infastructure, treating the troops like crap, sending jobs overseas, and letting our own American citizens drown while racing around the world to save everyone else, there hasn't been much to be proud of in the past 10 years.
But they sit back and react to stuff and let other people tell the story instead of telling their own story. Then when they tell their own story, it's pretty much too late.
And what I mean by the shape shifter comment, he has a tendency to recreate himself to fit whatever the situation is at the time. And I understand why he does that, but it goes hand in hand with criticism #1.
Having said all that, Trinity Church is now getting some air time and exposure at the expense of Barack Obama, so he needs to cut them loose. I have often wondered what Michelle's original denomination is and wonder if they could check out some churches within that denomination because I really don't think the United Church of Christ is right for them.
Obama will be losing respect from many blacks for this move. I am getting calls right now.
I've been missin ya'll, but the massa on my plantation(day job) has really kept me in the fields lately...if I can't escape to the north (or Cali), i'll be looking for a better plantation/massa/mistress in the very near future...
I know what it's like to leave your church after you've been a member for decades. I left the church that I was literally born into after 30 years.
It isn't easy. It's heart-wrenching and if you've never done it, you can't begin to appreciate the uprooting...but once it's done, you ultimately realize that YOU HAD TO DO IT.
No doubt, UCC helped shape who Barack is...like my church helped shape me, but after a certain point, the Lord requires that we continue to grow/evolve and sometimes that growth requires a drastic CHANGE...We have to LEAVE to grow.
The Obamas are on their way to Washington, DC. Their lives will be changed forever...and so will the lives of millions of Americans.
I'm sure that they will find an empowering church/congregation in the VA/MD suburbs when they are not "officially" worshipping at the National Cathedral.
I'm gonna wait to see his statement. I'm cool with him leaving, but I hope he doesn't try to use this as his sister souljah moment. He should just keep it short and simple. . .be respectful, state that they've gone separate ways and call it a day.
Obama holds that church's reputation in the palm of his hands. He should treat this with kid gloves.
Obama should have prepared for this waaay before he decided to run. He brought the national spotlight to that church, not the other way around.
At the same time, TUCC wasn't doing much to help out the situation. But, then again, the church doesn't revolve around Obama's campaign.
The whole situation is really disappointing. But there's a separation of church and state for a reason. This is an example, and the racial double-standard only highlights the matter.
And that's the very thing Obama APOLOGIST have no regard for. It's rather ironic that dNA posted this because I got a standing challenge in response to his co-blogger's question:
Does Trinity United Church of Christ Want Obama to Win?
Not only does this ignores what Trinity has been subjected to from more than a year but it assumes that an Obama win actually means something worth shutting up for.
And, no, talking about what you HOPE he will do while in office like this "jump Toby" game will stop once he's in office... Well, that's stuff just isn't happening.
A man can't ride your back unless it's bent.
Negro logic, "these are the rules we play by in America" NOT ACCEPTED and Obama's behavior is UNACCEPTABLE!
They are not asking for it. There careers were destroyed due to Obama's candidacy. They cannot even have freedom in their own church. Who wants that? Exposure...air time...please. Wright was prominent and respected. Now he is Obama's ex-"crazy uncle" pastor.
If the media was to get hold of what people on this blog and other black blogs like to say then Obama would have to denounce us too.
Another press conference...
I was saying that Obama should have left the church to save Trinity, Moss, Wright, Pfleger and the congregants from the character assassinations. I am with the church on this...not Obama. Wright career has been destroyed. The church has a bad name now.
I left the "T" of off "UCC". He should have saved them the heartache of having their church destroyed.
I know what they had to go through because of Obama's campaign.
I think you misunderstood my statement.
I am agreeing with you.
He's not invited. He better not walk back in. Not in my church.
If he wins, soon thereafter he will earn the appellation, the white's NITWH-it. Tokenism will reach an all-time high, and if he screws up as president, the blame will be placed not on the Democrats, but squarely on the shoulders of all blacks.
Further, if Obama wins, racism will be declared dead and insignificant in this country because he will have proved that even a black can become president.
Obama staying "black enough"
vs.
A McCain presidency
This is really absurd. From a moral standpoint, what's the difference between white folks making Obama jump through these loyalty hoops and us doing it?
Is Obama proposing policies that will put more black men in prison? Is he offering a health care plan no one can afford? Is he trying to troops in Iraq for a hundred years? Is he ordering torture, extraordinary rendition, or holding people without due process?
No, he left his church because it'll be easier for him to get elected that way.
People need to get over this black enough shit. Obama is a politician, not the second coming of Malcolm X. You elect politicians to enact responsible policies, not to be the moral vanguard.
I agree that he should have left Trinity at the beginning, but I doubt that would have quelled the firestorm, which was probably inevitable. He's probably leaving because of Father Pfleger, but the fact is this is better for Trinity in the long run. The way it stands there will still be people in the pews with recording devices until november.
The idea that Obama is "scared of dealing with race" though is absurd. You do realize he's running for president right?
Your name is so appropro to this discussion and on point.
Yeah, we are all "disappointed", I'm not, I am just waiting for the next thing Obama will have to disavow.
Town,
You are so correct. I thought it was just my imagination, but I have often wondered what his handlers are thinking by requiring that he submit himself to people who don't have his best interest at heart. Is it to prove that he is not afraid to address them, but when he gets in front of these people he almost goes into shuffle mode. When he is confronted with the fact that one focus group is not too keen on him he addresses them with his ideas in an attempt to get them on his side.
As I stated, I think he assumes wrongly that he has the Black vote all wrapped up and doesn't have to address our concerns, an assumption I think will come back to bite him in his ass.
If he has any thinking Black handlers they better speak up quickly and tell him he is showing his ass or he might be end for a rude awakening.
Black folks don't like Toms, especially shuffling ones.
I heard Eugene Robinson (the Washington Post columnist) say something like this a couple weeks back, and I was intrigued. I instantly knew I was guilty of that kind of thinking -- and even if, for me, it's mostly benign in outcome (or so I imagine), it's there. In the case of Rev. Wright and Barack Obama (whose candidacy I support), I imagined that Sen. Obama understood Rev. Wright, felt compassion for some of the things he'd been through, etc. etc. -- IOW, I imagined all kinds of complexity and nuance in their relationship, but I did not question for a second that they were close (or had been close) and were bound together in some way.
When Eugene Robinson said what he did, I flashed on John McCain and Pastor Hagee and realized that, even if McCain had been a member of Hagee's church, I would have started at a place where, if nothing else, I understood that McCain and Hagee were separate people, and my thinking about what the Hagee endorsement meant would have proceeded from that given. That was not the case with Obama and Wright. I started from a different place.
But as for him quitting the church now... doesn't it just seem like he could no longer really attend, given all the media attention that would have been focused on his doing so, and that that wouldn't be fair either to him and his family or to the church? I don't know. That's how it seems to me (without having given it a lot of thought). I hope it's not a big deal. Doesn't seem like it should be.
Meanwhile, to end on an up note: Chuck Todd said this afternoon on MSNBC, after the Rules & Bylaws Committee meeting was over: "It's Barack Obama's party now." It was an amazing thing to hear.
And one more thing: There's been a lot of talk these days about how the Clintons know how to fight, if it'd been a Clinton instead of Gore in the Florida 2000 recount situation, they would've won, etc. etc. But you know what else I think we've seen over the last couple months? Barack Obama knows how to fight too. And I think we're in for a treat.
Now, in this sad saga (sad because both Wright and Obama played their roles), there are hard feelings all the way around and then you have Obama APOLOGISTS who apparently care nothing about the people of Trinity. Apparently, they were supposed to "shut up" and be nice little sacrifices for the greater good that nobody can guarantee insomuch as what a president Obama would do especially in terms of things important to Black people.
---------------
Trinity Church would have been all too glad to soak up exposure and publicity had the Rev. Wright tapes not been so damaging to themselves. They would have been all too glad to bill themselves as the church of the next president of the US.
But now that the publicity is bad, they say "We didn't want the exposure."
Of course they didn't want the exposure, because it shows them in a bad light. People are questioning what they are doing and saying in that church.
So, knowing that they are being seen in a bad light, why in the world would they tape Father Pfleger mocking Hillary Clinton (even though it was damn funny and true, lol) and release the tape, knowing that it would be picked apart and discussed and denounced? Why discuss Hillary Clinton? There ain't no book of Hillary in the Bible!
See, this right now has nothing to do with Barack Obama. You don't paint a target on your ass then complain when somebody shoots you in the ass. Nobody was even thinking about Trinity Church for the past couple of weeks, everything had died down and they themselves mucked up the waters again for themselves.
Barack Obama's problem is he wants to please people and be liked, and that's going to be his downfall because you cannot please everyone. He's trying to be liked by white people instead of nipping ish in the bud.
Obama tried to have it both ways but you can't have it both ways. He should have kept it real with himself back in '04 and quit Trinity Church when he ran for the US Senate or once he decided to run for President. Running for an office where mostly white people will put you in requires that you make yourself as acceptable and palatable to TEHM as possible. We know this, Obama knew this, but Obama tried to have it both ways.
Being a politician requires that you corrupt yourself to get that power. We complain about Stephanie Tubbs Jones but is there really any difference between Tubbs Jones and Obama? Or Obama and Clinton? Or Obama and McCain? All of them are lying, corrupting themselves, kissing ass so they can git that power!
Now Obama's quest for power isn't and shouldn't be Trinity's concern. BUT not drawing negative attention to themselves should be their concern, not because of Obama's candidacy, but because they need to protect and heal themselves from the onslaught they've been through this year, and mocking Hillary Clinton knowing the media is going to pick it up and discuss it is doing themselves a disservice.
I hear you but we can be critical and disappointed if we like. I am still a supporter. If I was his advisor, it wouldnt have gotten this bad. If he was going to leave, he should have left from last year because he had to have known that it was coming. The church had to go through all of this. His move looks expedient to everyone.
Also, people have a right to agree and disagree. I am more mad at the media than anyone else.
I know what he has to do but that does not mean that I have to be happy about it.
I love how ppl like the bring up Malcolm X. Bring up MLK because he warned blacks aboiut the "negro political leaders". Duh...Obama is a politican. Why was everybody upset when Wright said it? Yet black use it to explain every move he makes in order to get elected.
I am support of Barack for everything else. However when it comes to certain things for example this...I do get upset. I also cannot stand the fact that his campaign in reactionary rather than proactive. I have been saying that for a while now.
I
I didn't even bother to read the rest of the post.
There have been so many strangers in that church since the whole thing happened. Half the tapes that were originally played on the networks back in march were from a moblie phone. Which means that someone was in the church taping them.
Also Wright had a no-interview policy for a year until they dragged him in. Explain that.
Fair enough, but I defended Wright plenty on this blog. It wasn't what he said but that he kept saying it when he knew what the results would be.
It's really not just the "leaders" we need to be concerned about. We need to be concerned about the very concept of black leadership, both how it's pursued and how we view its role in the community.
I can't believe you aren't intelligent enough to deal with the issue as a question of Obama's blackness. But then you really don't have much to stand on so you might as well take the dummy route and set up a convenient straw-man.
Obama is getting and has gotten Black people's support. WE ARE A WHOLE PEOPLE and any politician we support, Black, White or Polkadot must respect us FISTS and all. But that's not the case here.
Asking Obama to stand on something and stand with people who have given him the strongest support he's gotten isn't and can't be reduced to nonsense of being "black" enough.
Neither will a false choice of a f-cked up Obama and the specter of McSame help your APOLOGETICS. It wasn't John Kerry's whiteness that was called into question when the FLIP FLOP issue was raised.
But I understand... labeling criticisms against Obama's lack of a position he'll stand on as questioning whether he's "black enough" must be the best that you can do.
And this has nothing to do with McCain. What happens when he wins? What? He becomes McCain himself... blowing in the wind, doing anything to APPEASE enemies of his campaign/administration.
Again, the issue that just won't move is this assumption that an Obama win, especially one that goes down like this, would be worth "shutting up" for and viewing McCain as the "accept Obama's bs" boogeyman.
Surely you can come better than that.
Obama staying "black enough"
Duh...people please stop with that. Black people have never had their interests represented yet when we ask...we are being selfish. People can speak on a blog if they want!! We dont all have to shut up and be muzzled. Nobody is asking whites to compromise. We are on a blog expressing our frustrations. You will have to not be of this world to not know that Barack is running for President of the U.S.
My church's reputation is destroyed due to the way in which the media represented it. Whatever Barack has to say does not matter at this point. He is not a member anymore.
I have known Barack before anyone in here. I have known him since 1997. He is not the progressive he used to be. He is much different now. While I support him. I am careful and critical as I am with any politican. Why should we not be critical...because he is black? We should just nod.
Sorry not here.
People are sitting on the internet discussing my church. A church that they have never, ever been to in their lives!!!
Obama should have been in front of the story rather than behind it. Please put the blame where it belongs. Don't get mad at those who don't feel that they should just sit and nod. You are yet to know that black politicans have rarely properly represented their people. Look at the CBC. I have all right to agree and disagree with Barack. He better not turn into Harolf Ford Jr.
Show the actual equivalence instead of assume it like the unfounded assumption that an Obama win is something worth "shutting up" for.
Simply, make your actual argument because I have no idea what "loyalty hoops" you're talking about. Don't presume such a FALSE CONSENSUS. Maybe you jump through loyalty hoops you consider comparable to those Obama is triple jumping through but I have no idea what mine are.
Obama could very well have distanced himself without demonizing Rev. Wright, rattling off rhetoric that's riddled with contradictions, if not lies, and now doing what he accused Rev. Wright of doing:
"giving comfort to those who prey on hate."
But Sean Hannity ain't that pleased even though he got just what he wanted out of Obama. The contradictions are too obvious.
But I guess Town's critique about Obama being too REACTIVE vs. PROACTIVE is a question of whether he's "black enough."
LMBAO!!
His public resignation makes this a big deal for the next news cycle. People were already shifting they're attention away from Pfleger towards the RBC meeting. This was already well on its way to being old news.
But now this is going to be a topic of discussion on all of the talk shows tomorrow morning.
I guess it helps in the long run. There is absolutely nothing more that he can do to avoid further issues.
The only problem is this. . . his critics won't stop asking for more. Just now, Fox News made sure to stress that he didn't specifically denounce the church.
He can't be all things to all people. McCain and Hillary could care less what they're critics think about them. But they work hard to motivate their base of support to get them where they need to be.
Obama needs to realize this really fast. He can't continue this type of reactionary behavior in the general election.
He also needs to find some balance. I love the fact that he strives to rise above division. But you gotta fight sometimes. Sometimes you gotta shove Hillary out of the race. Sometimes you gotta flip off your critics and say you're done trying to explain yourself for things that other people say.
Otherwise you get distracted.
He should lock up the nomination this week. After that he should be focusing on two things: voter registration and GOTV. Those are the two most important things he's got going at this point. But I agree with those of you who say he needs to stop reacting to everything Hillary, Fox News and McCain throw his way.
Enter Pflager.
I don't blame him for leaving, but now it becomes a question of judgement: did he exercise good judgement by leaving, or is it evidence of bad judgement by staying as long as he did?
Each side will spin it their own way.
I say neither: yeah, it was a political move-but some things just don't need questioning. It was a personal move as well, and one that probably came at great difficulty.
God help me, but he might get a pass from me on this.
My understanding is the rest of UCC isn't like this.
Because Black folks still get their news and have their views shaped by the White instigating media.
Wright's "politician" statement was innocuous by any objective reading of it and the statement originated in the Moyer's interview everybody claimed was okay. It was the NPC question that brought it back up, hoping something spin-able would come out of it and Black folk (some of ya'll) bought it hook, line and sinker right along with Obama's lyin' azz.
Yes, I am in the same boat with Non Delusional. Y'all know how I feel when you put your ambition above God and the leaders that nurtured you. I am, and always will be ambivalent about Obama and his distancing from his pastor and UCC, because he's running for President.
While he may have to compromise in some areas, one's faith should never been one of those areas.
And that's where I stand on this issue.
The only reason he had a press conference about this was because he had given a letter to the TUCC congregation that CNN obtained and was about to do a story on. He had talked it over with Rev. Moss and came to the decision after the lastest dust-up that it would be better for everybody if he just left. He even admitted that he wasn't sure he was even going to bring it up to the press but since they had already seen the letter he felt he had to say something.
The whole thing makes me just sad as hell.
Melissa-
Never told anyone not to speak, never tried to muzzle anyone. I was just expressing my opinion which as you point out in your post I have ever right to do.
"Wright had a no-interview policy for a year until they dragged him in..."
"...put your ambition above God and the leaders that nurtured you..."
Divine Love Does Not Ask Family To Choose Between Family Members
His continued affiliation with Trinity was detrimental to everyone.
And, unless the man has been frontin' the whole time, the messages sent by Wright and Pfleger did not seem to align with his core beliefs. Yeah, he might have giggled at bit like the rest of us. But, he seems to be promoting inclusiveness and moving beyond our typical divisive b*s*.
The questions we have to ask ourselves are:
Are WE ready to move beyond the divisiveness?
What are WE ready to give up in order to do so?
Do we REALLY want him to be our next president?
Barack Obama (still a black Christian man) as President in '08!
I said Obama leaving Trinity is not towelhead behavior, and that he shouldn't have stayed at the expense of his campaign. I also don't see how Obama leaving Trinity = Obama betraying black folks, and I think that kind of symbolic politics is pointless. It would have been one thing if he talked about how their "extremism" was too much for them, but he didn't. He didn't badmouth the Church when he left, he just left.
More importantly, Trinity has a right to worship without Fox news sending in reporters to record sermons every weekend.
We are a whole people. Whatever is mainstream to them should never have to be mainstream to us.
That's the reason to be upset not with this decision, per se, but with the fact that Obama treated the "black radical politics" he should be well acquainted with and even embraced to whatever extent by being a member of Trinity as if it had no place in America even Black America (see his post-NPC press conference).
After all, he was told Trinity was just "radical" before he ever joined.
Obama "betrayed the people who nurtured him." Please. Can someone explain to me how he would have honored them by staying?
Oh but yes he did.
Stop personalizing the "jabs at his bi-racialness" or using that as a straw man. You have no standing when all you "absorbed" from what was being said here was whether Obama was "black enough."
Obama is trying to win the presidency, ya'll. of THESE (supposedly) United States.
He ain't Rev. Al, he ain't Malcolm X. And he damn sure ain't Martin Luther King.
He's a black man, raised by his white momma and grandparents. He joined Michelle's church when he married her.
If you listened to his press conference, HE DID NOT THROW TRINITY UNDER THE BUS!!!
He is going to be in DC anyway in 6 months. What is the big deal???
And to the folks that say he shouldn't walk back into Trinity...
How Christian is that?
"He's a black man, raised by his white momma and grandparents. He joined Michelle's church when he married her. "
I love how you come with your half ass facts. Obama met Wright in 1985. He met Michelle in 1988 or 1989.
Can people stop repeating this nonsense.
I can definitely do that once you own up to how your "we wouldn't even be here" rhetoric about placing "results" (what results?) above "throwing fists up" is the functional equivalent to OneDrop's "shut up" mandate.
I will definitely do that when you tell me "what results" and, yes, what an Obama win (you invoked McCain) is worth without assuming it's worth is self-evident.
What the hell...
Obama would have honored them by NOT JUMPING every time White folks said jump. Obama would have honored them if he came out with equal fervor and said HANDS OFF MY CHURCH instead of mumbling "the people there... the ministries... do good things."
He could have honored them by holding a press conference or some speech not to respond to what many wanted to hear him say about Wright but to level of disrespect to Trinity even minus Wright since Wright didn't measure up as representative of the Black church.
He could have honored them by is a friend of his just like Hillary Clinton and, of course, he can't be held accountable for all the stuff she says or does.
"He ain't Rev. Al, he ain't Malcolm X. And he damn sure ain't Martin Luther King."
Duh...he's a politican. Ooops...I shouldnt have said that.
DNA-
I have been reading the BAR for a while. I stopped reading but recently, I have agreed with some of their conclusions. Don't take it personal.
The press conference today is one thing. What has happen to this point is another. He has, indeed, allowed for the distorted view of Trinity to exists because THE ENEMIES OF HIS CAMPAIGN called for him to leave his church based on their view of what goes on there.
On some news show, somebody asked if another member of Trinity decided to run for president how would they be viewed.
Case closed.
If you are at work in a boardroom with all white folks and Pfleger walks in and gives that speech/sermon he gave at Trinity, even though you believe it's true and talk about it in like company, tell me you don't cringe and shy away in non-response and embarrasment.
Obama didn't throw them under the bus, he had to cut them loose before another game-changing sermon is made. Each time they give a sermon about what is wrong in the world and inject Obama's name and a reference to the campaig n it becomes political.
These people are in essenced throwing him under the bus.
Do we really want to discuss what's supposed to be inherently positive about him being our next president?
Apparently not. We're just supposed to assume that it is and a Obama presidency is, somehow, worth whatever even when it guarantees nothing.
Do we really want to discuss what expectations and DEMANDS we would place on president Obama? or is just having his Black fact there enough?
Those are the questions worth asking Black people who really place 90% of their primary votes behind him. If that's not an indication that we really want him (and not someone he is not, as far as what supporters have perceived of him) to be president, I don't know what is.
That's the problem, Ms. Martin. Obama didn't give a "non-response."
And why would Pfleger make that speech in a boardroom. Pfleger didn't make that speech in Barack's -- i.e. on his campaign trail.
I'd rather here those comparable anecdotes vs. analogies. dNA??
What's going to happen when he gets criticized for trying to end the war? is he going to throw people like me who are only supporting him because he's the only candidate who wasnt for the war?
I'm sorry to say it, but this guy isnt special at all, he's just another opportunitic politician. I wont be suprised if he joins a white church...or a TD Jakes type of church. Wont be surprised at all.
You're missing my point. There's a double standard here. I asked the question because I know the answer. I know that people agree with a lot of things that have been said, but they aren't outraged enough to take it to the mainstream in their reality, yet they expect Obama to take it to his mainstream reality. Get real.
I mean that in the most loving way.
*winks*
The thing I am seeing is that Trinity UCC seems to have become a two-dimensional symbol of authentic Blackness somehow, maybe not everywhere but at least some views of it. It's like it has undergone a translation from its own complex reality into being a symbol in the political alphabet. People are talking about the media, maybe that's most/all of what did it. I don't know.
This translation into two-dimensional symbolism would be weird to me no matter what, probably. But there are specific things about this situation that make it really strange IMO.
*Reverend Wright:
-On one hand he has become the symbol of hard-edged on-the-edge truth-telling about racism/white supremacy ... or the scary radical bad Black man, depending on where you stand.
-On the other hand, he has been linked into the white establishment enough that he had insider access to not one but two white Democratic presidents (he had enough access/clearance to get into LBJ's surgery and he was at the White House with the Clintons during the Lewinsky thing). Most people go their whole lives with no close access to even one president. But two, these two in particular (and then connection with Obama who may be the third?)
I'm okay with paradox and complexity, but there is something about this particular one that has felt jarring to me but I can't explain why. I mean what's the big deal? But it keeps bubbling up as a thought/discomfort. I don't really understand what it it means or why.
*White radical priest:
Why was the final instrument of this split a white man? How did that happen? And how did a white man with radical rhetoric referencing the presidential campaign symbolically get onto the "authentically Black" side of the symbolic conflict, while Senator Obama is on the opposing side of that same symbolism?
*Trinity and Black authenticity:
My gf pointed out to me that there is an interesting part in Dreams From My Father -- page 285-286 -- about how Trinity membership and participation provided Black professionals an opportunity to connect with more "authentically" Black church members ("claims of greater deprivation and hence authenticity" is the phrase he uses) and this connection was an exchange in both directions. From this perspective one function of Trinity was to ...not manufacture Black authenticity, but at least to broker (?) it somehow.
-------------------------------------------
I don't entirely understand what it is I may be seeing or feel here. I do think the crux of what is nagging at me is about Trinity being translated into a two-dimensional symbol in a way that isn't entirely grounded or real. These other pieces feel possibly related to me but I have no idea if that's true, and if so how.
And again, since I am an entire outsider on this, I may not be seeing anything useful at all.
"If you are at work in a boardroom with all white folks and Pfleger walks in and gives that speech/sermon he gave at Trinity, even though you believe it's true and talk about it in like company, tell me you don't cringe and shy away in non-response and embarrasment."
I talk like Pfleger everyday. I could care less about "white folks". I figure that you do not know me well?
I am the only black person at my job. They know that about me. They think that I am joking. They dont know that I am serious. If I was a black man then they may run but I'm a short black girl.
I know why Obama did what he did. I am not really mad at him as much as I am at the media who keeps trying to make a story out of nothing. However Obama knew that this would become an issue. I dont think that he did a good job at initially handling it. People have been smearing his church, writing articles and trying to dig up stuff for a year. He made the media create the narrative. He cannot do that. I would like Obama to stop being reactive. He needs to be proactive. Its killing me. I like the guy but its killing me.
I'm telling you, I wouldn't be a bit surprised if some way, some how, Hillary & Bill is linked to this sh%t! I remember the media reporting that Hillary's campaign was going to argue the Rev Wright controversy with the SuperDelegates!
It is one thing to disagree with how Obama handled the UCC issue. Since I am conflicted about that, I will not weigh in. But are you seriously asking how an Obama presidency would be better than a McCain presidency?
Junglecat
"Authentic" blackness...no.
Nobody is questioning Obama's blackness can people stop with that.
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Yes, he is. All politicians are. Bill Clinton ran on "hope and change" back in 1992. Black folks loved themselves the Clintons until Obama came along and they started up with the racebaiting.
Why are we requiring Obama to jump through all these loyalty hoops and hell bent on "holding him accountable" when we aren't holding Stephanie Tubbs Jones or Maxine Waters or James Clyburn or any other black politician accountable?
It seems like we only want to hold black politicians "accountable" if they start pandering to white people too much. Any other time, we look the other way. Would we have held Hillary "accountable" had Obama not been in the race? She would have gotten 90% of our votes too. Kerry got 89% of our votes. Did we make him jump through hoops to get it? Gore got 90% of our votes. Did we make him jump through hoops to get it?
Either we as black people start holding ALL politicians regardless of color accountable, or none at all.
Seems like the problem is more us than Obama or any other politician.
And as far as Rev. Wright not giving interviews, he could have gave his one little interview to Bill Moyers and kept it moving instead of going on the Jeremiah Wright Press Tour talking about black kids climb up over tables and that's how they learn.
I agree with you totally on the proactive/reactive thing.
I seriously doubt you are giving speeches about "whitey" at the level to which Wright and Pfleger did on a daily basis and still remain employed.
Now don't get me wrong, I know what they are saying about race in America is true, and I agree with a lot of what Wright said, but those accusations stand alone on their on merit without reference to the Obama campaign.
No one here is talking about demanding that Obama fulfill promises to raise the minimum wage, deal with mandatory minimum sentencing or improve public schools. We're all just talking about his Church and how his leaving is somehow a slight to black people everywhere, even though its the best thing for Trinity and the best thing for his campaign.
Why would he want to get photographed in the church with all the "racists".
Michelle-
Sweetie, what are you saying?
Anyway.
Justice58-
Pfleger used her as an example of white privilege in our discussion on race. We are comfortable in our church and its like a family. We are not use to the scrutiny and its difficult for such outspoken people. Fr. Pfleger and Dr. Wright are very outspoken people. They are not trying to sabotage Obama. Like everyone else, they are very emotional about this election. However unlike everybody else, they are not allowed that freedom. This country is unfortunate. People should be free in their church.
I don't mind that Obama left. I am sick of the scrutiny. There are strangers in my church who look suspicious. We needed security at one point. We have media outside. I mean who wants that.
-----------------------------------
Spoken so true!
Maybe you want *O* to be like GWBush and remain "unchanged and unevolved." You want somebody who thinks "changing their mind" is a bad thing. You want someone who trys to look TOUGH by never changing their mind in spite of evidence and facts that demand CHANGE.
Maybe you all subscribe to "intelligent design" and think that Darwin's concept of Evolution is satanic.
Please consider waking up and realize that when you vote for Barack Obama, you're voting for wise judgment in light of relevant facts. I admire Barack's decision--and I would encourage some of you to explore faiths outside of your "comfort zone," before dumping on the Next President of the United States for being able to "change his mind."
I talk about that stuff everyday. However let me remind you that YOU created a post about Obama leaving Trinity so we are simply discussing it. I am sorry if we do not all agree.
I do not think that Obama is selling out black people. Is that better!
Goodness gracious.
Nquest,
When you get your own blog you can tell people what they can and can't say on it.
I'm seriously asking what Obama's presidency would be on it's own merits. "Better than" McCain doesn't say much to me AND I was very explicit:
this has nothing to do with McCain.
What happens when he wins? What? He becomes McCain himself... blowing in the wind, doing anything to APPEASE enemies of his campaign/administration?
tell me "what results" and, yes, what an Obama win is worth without assuming it's worth is self-evident
Wow...what distortion!!!! You know that that was not his message but yall are trying to be stupid!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
If half of you people knew what they man did for people and the amount of people that he inspired....you would not be talking so much SHIT!!!!
Obama uses so many of the man's phrases. I sit in the man's church...I know this. Yet you people sit here and talk about Wright as if he is so foreign. If Wright was so horrible then Obama should have never joined. He should have left year ago. You are looking for anything, anything...wow.
I am so done with you people.
I understand. I'm just saying by both being men of God, they should have used wisdom!
Just so hurt Barack had to give up his church. That takes a very emotional toll on any believer!
rhonda,
when did I say we should all agree? I just have a different opinion on the subject than people who see this as a house negro move.
When people start saying things like "we're not demanding enough" of Obama because he left Trinity, well that's ridiculous. If they weren't trying to constantly denigrate black folks through his association with the church I wouldn't care WHERE he went.
I just don't think the stakes are high here, and if you're going to get mad at Obama for compromising, get mad at something that will actually affect us, not something that really should have stayed a private matter.
He is always being asked to speak places nationally. He knows a lot of people and is very respected. He did not get invited places all of a sudden because of Barack. You have it backwards.
No, I'm pointing out how your analogy has not point. I also know that I have no reason to be "embarrassed" because I don't subscribe to that internalized racism of RACE REPRESENTATION even that "he talk like Blacks" type of embarrassment Pfleger is suppose to represent or whatever the point of your analogy was.
I'm trying my best to see the parallels in my personal life other folk keep assuming is there.
<<< dNA >>>
Nquest, When you get your own blog you can tell people what they can and can't say on it.
LOL!!
LOL!!
LOL!!
LOL!!
C'mon, dude.
Now that that excuse is out the way. You want to show me where I told you or someone else what they can and can't say?
You have got to come better than that.
C'mon, dude... LMAO!!!
You have got to come better than that.
What happens when he wins? What? He becomes McCain himself... blowing in the wind, doing anything to APPEASE enemies of his campaign/administration?
tell me "what results" and, yes, what an Obama win is worth without assuming it's worth is self-evident
So have you not been paying attention at all? Do you not realize there are 2.5 million people in prison in this country, and that Obama has a sound corrections policy while McCain doesn't have one at ALL?
Do you not realize how many millions of uninsured there are? Obama's HC policy is flawed, but it would eventually lead to universal coverage if implemented, while McCain's would lead to higher prices for everyone.
We've been in Iraq for 5 years going nowhere, while more and more people die and yet you act like there's no difference between the guy who wants to start more wars and the guy who says he wants to end one of the two we've already started?
Bush has ordered torture, suspended due process and is spying on Americans. Obama has said he would rescind those executive orders, and has stated unequivocally that not form or kind of torture would be used. The last time McCain had an opportunity to vote on a bill banning waterboarding, he voted FOR it.
I mean Nquest, honestly if you're even asking whether the only reason to vote for Obama over McCain is because Obama is black, than I think you should be asking yourself whether that's the only reason you liked the dude to begin with. And if that's the case, then I can see why Trinity would be a dealbreaker for you. Because you don't seem to have any idea what's at stake policywise.
He is always being asked to speak places nationally. He knows a lot of people and is very respected. He did not get invited places all of a sudden because of Barack. You have it backwards.
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I guess we best not say nuthin' bad 'bout your Pastor! Dont you say NUTHIN bad 'bout Pastor!
Look, if Rev. Wright wants to say that shit in your church, fine. I don't go there, I'd never go there. But once he steps out that church and starts giving speeches being aired by CNN that all of America can see, then he opens himself up to criticism by all of America. And there was no sense in him whatsoever talking about black kids climbing up over tables and that's why they learn differently. If Rev. Wright doesn't want to be criticized for saying dumb shit like that then he needs to stay his ass in Trinity Church and off of CNN.
You have got to come better than that.
No I can't. I'm humbled by your creative use of internet acronyms.
Sweetie, you have this thing all wrong. Many of the people who are commenting here, including myself, defended Wright. Right up until he inserted himself in the campaign in a negative light.
If you truly believe Wright is everything you're telling us he is, then you know that he is held to a different standard than your common man; his understanding is greater than the common man.
As a man of God, I believe it is his charge to distinguish not incite riots.
Do you know how hurt Wright has been? He was hurt last year when Obama disinvited him. However he knew why it happened. He was hurt when people were distorting him and his character. He was hurt when he saw quick sound bytes being circulated with people labelling him a "racist", "Anti-American", "seperatist", "wackadoodle", "hatemonger". People were saying things about him when they did not even know him, what he did for his community, what his church meant and stood for....they destroyed a 36 year career. Thats not right. Meanwhile, you have Obama dismissing him as a "crazy uncle" who is lost in time. I could see the weariness in him. I could see that it took a toll.
He went to the National Press Club to try and introduce people to who he really was. He tried to use comedy to make light of things. He delivered an interesting speech about the black church tradition so people could have context. It obviously did not go over well. He never had bad intentions. He always says wonderful things about Barack.
Lets be serious.
Huh?
I wasn't referring to Pfleger speaking black, I was actually referring to what he was saying not being acceptable in mixed company. I was saying the same people who are outraged by Obama saying enough is enough, aren't outraged enough to make Pfleger's plaform their platform in places where it wouldn't be acceptable depending on the audience.
It might not seem like it a lot of the time but we have freedom of speech. Rev Wright can say whatever he choses.
What Wright said was good enough for the 20 years that Obama attended the church. If you think that Obama hadn't sat through some of those sermons you must be sick in the head. He couldn't have thought Wright was that crazy be he sought out the relationship with him. No one would deny that the two were close.
Now he's leaving Trinity-after it is not longer of use to him.
I understand that you support Obama, but don't let that support blind you.
Perhaps it was naive of him to believe that he would be accorded the same hands off approach of his religion and worship as other presidential candidates.
Fuck the media and black folks who have been collectively acted like a bunch of damn peepin' toms in this man's personal life with respect to his religion. White folks have no damn business telling him where he shouldn't worship and likewise Black folks have no damn business telling him where he should!
The rule should be it's nobody's damn business where you lay your head in "sin" or prayer.
"And there was no sense in him whatsoever talking about black kids climbing up over tables and that's why they learn differently. If Rev. Wright doesn't want to be criticized for saying dumb shit like that then he needs to stay his ass in Trinity Church and off of CNN."
He was refering to a book written by a black sociologist. I remember her last name being Hale. I have read it before. However I forgot the name and her full name. He never said that black kids climb up on desks and that how they learn. I despise that because he was not saying that.
Ms. Martin? What's the "take it to the mainstream" stuff for? There is a serious disconnect. The "mainstream" asked Obama to "take it to" Wright and then Pfleger.
That's a fundamental difference.
There are plenty of anecdotes where White people have asked African-Americans what they think about Black leader X, rapper Y, etc. In those experiences, there is a diversity of responses and plenty of them have been in the manner in which people have required of Obama.
But then again, the workplace is hardly anything comparable to Obama's campaign. As a function of my employment or in the interview process, most/all Black folks don't get asked to distance themselves from something somebody they know said. Most employers don't give a f-ck and only would raise that concern if your outside life impacts your production and, naturally, their bottom line.
I still believe we're just a few months from President Obama. I have great hopes for the future. The younger voters make me proud. But all this (right wing and racist fueled) angst about Trinity really makes me sad. Were that we lived in a country where there was religious freedom. Where a man could say, this is my church, what of it? Perhaps we'll get there someday.
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Anyone can say whatever they want to, whenever they want to.
But, let's be clear, there are consequences to what you say. If you don't want to accept the consequences, don't say it.
That's part of why Geraldine Ferraro is so angry. She felt she should be able to say whatever she wanted, without consequence and when she found out otherwise, it enraged her.
Rev. Wright and Father Pfleger and Barack Obama can go anywhere they want and say whatever they want, but all three of them need to realize there are consequences to what you say. Man up and accept it, or shut your mouth.
Now that might be media spin, but it makes sense to me. Both of these men are many thing, but STUPID is certainly not on that list.
Rev. Wright is very well known in Chicago, Phila, and lots of other places where he has been on the radio for more than a few years now.
ALL of this has been blown out of proportion, especially by the MSM, who, in my opinion, think some sneaky, shady stuff goes on in black churches.
'They are in there plotting revenge against whitey...' This is more about white folk being scared that black people will take out some long held revengeful feelings, than it is about Buddy and Barack.
Rev. Wright has known that he stance on many, many issues was not and will not be "politically correct."
Sen. Obama knows that he has got to walk a very tight rope to get the the White House.
I, for one, am rooting for them both, for Rev. Wright to keep doing his thing and for Sen. Obama do keep doing his.
Trinity will be fine. Sen. Obama will also be fine.
There's no disconnet at all,you know exactly what I'm talking about.
--------------
It's not just Obama, people had questions and concerns about Mitt Romney's Mormonism. What the f*ck does him being Mormon have to do with his policies? Vote for or against Romney because of his policies, not because he's a Mormon.
So I guess this election has shown us if you're Muslim you BET NOT run for office, and if you're Arab you BET NOT run for office.
"But he might be a (whisper) Muslim!" And? So? It's these so-called Christians who have always made laws to oppress non-whites and women in the name of the Lord.
Religious freedom? Not any time soon.
Ms. Martin, your analogy just doesn't work on a number of levels and I don't know what Pfleger's "platform" is and no one is asking Obama to run on Pfleger's platform.
But go ahead and tell me how many Black people you know as a condition of their employment, hiring, promotion or just being able to keep their jobs... how many Black people you know who are asked by their employers to denounces the "platforms" of people they know.
Both you and dNA insist that there are some parallels and that we've all done what Obama has so let's see ya'll put some paint on that picture because there's nothing there but an empty canvass of unfounded assumptions so far.
What jobs do everyday Black people have that insist that they stop attending a certain kind of church?
Talk about gettin' real... Where's the real meat to this claim that we all have to do what Obama has to?
If i'm ever in Chicago on a Sunday, i'll look forward to attending TUCC and hearing Pastor Emeritus Wright preach.
Likewise, I look forward to being in front of the US Capitol on Jan 20, 2009 to see Barack Obama become the 44th President of the United States of America.
There's nothing wrong with being in either of those places...and I certainly would not be trying to contrive DRAMA over any of this...
I agree with you. Thats my issue too. Its the media who made a big deal out of this. The very premise behind their coverage is racist. They are going unchecked...I cannot take it.
Likewise, I look forward to being in front of the US Capitol on Jan 20, 2009 to see Barack Obama become the 44th President of the United States of America."
I agree Webb. The two places are not a contradiction in my book.
Its the white mainstream media who cannot get their heads around it. The served it a certain way and everyone ate it up.
I didn't.
I am critical with everyone. However as a black person, It is hard for me to watch what is going on here. People are overlooking the media and their manipulation of the situation.
STOP IT!
I didn't eat it up either...like Donna Brazile was saying earlier, my mama taught me NOT to eat "everybody's cooking." She especially taught me to avoid "some people's" cooking.
Be thankful, everyone is not eating it up as evidenced by JJP.
TO anon@8:53 regarding the "true" sistas and brothas...LOVED THAT...they will not be appeased until Barack takes the oath in a dishiki with kente cloth.
Folks on JJP might have asked, but has the mainstream asked --
Where does John McCain go to church? Who married him? Why was he divorced? Did he really call his wife a cunt?
The problem is -- here is Barack Obama (this exotic Negro -- he ain't even a regular Negro, we might have been able to deal with that... but who is THIS guy? who married a soul sista from Chicago - damn, she's smart AND dark)
Wait, but they go to a Black church. (What goes on in there, anyway?...)
Um, he's running a helluva campaign. He even got Iowa country boys voting for him.
(Whoa, wait one damn minute here. WHO IS THIS GUY? Funny name, must be a Muslim...)
Damn, that wife of his is kinda hot.
(But hold it. She's talking, she's not SUPPOSED to talk! Especially not the truth. She's just supposed to stand there and look at him adoringly.
(Gotcha! She's unpatriotic, yeah, yeah, that's it!)
DON'T GET ME STARTED!!!!
You still can't manage to get the McCain out. lol
Do you not realize there are 2.5 million people in prison in this country, and that Obama has a sound corrections policy while McCain doesn't have one at ALL?
Do you not realize that a president (and especially a compromised Black president) is not Congress, the policy making branch of gov't?
Do you not realize that presidents face opposition to whatever agenda they go into office hoping to achieve?
I am well aware of Barack's platform, record, etc. Stipulate to it on the regular. This Trinity sh*t, ever last Wright piece of it, doesn't bode well for an Obama presidency that won't be overly handicapped going in. Enemies of his campaign know he'll bend now and Black folk, IMO, have little reason to believe he will stick to his "sound plans" especially for prisons and urban agendas that he just doesn't talk about much.
Now why is that? Do you realize what a mandate is? Obama is not promoting prisons reform and an urban agenda as key components of his platform. No, like the video you went gah-gah over he's preachin 'to Black and Brown folk about how we have to realize just how tough White folks have it.
And you don't even go there on the war. One of BAR's best critiques is on Obama's imperialistic impulse. You seen him do the Israel dance and we know he's flexed his cowboy voice muscles about bombing Pakistan.
What Obama's behavior has done is given credence to the BAR critiques that Obama would compromise on issues important to Black people and there is no guarantee that Obama will get us out of Iraq.
You do know campaign promises are often broken, don't you? You do know where his votes have fallen regarding the war, don't you?
You do realize that "sound plans" don't always get accomplished and that a variety of factors impact whether a president has the political capital to fulfill their agenda.
You do realize the not-so-clever attempt to avoid:
What happens when he wins? What? He becomes McCain himself... blowing in the wind, doing anything to APPEASE enemies of his campaign/administration?
But as Sen. Obama has said, he is not a perfect man, and he won't be a perfect president.
But HE's GOT TO GET THERE FIRST!
So, between John "let's stay in a war, reverse Roe v. Wade, and screw working people" McCain
and Barack "get out of Iraq, appoint progressive judges, and give working folk a break" Obama,
I'm going with Obama!
(Hell, I voted for Al Gore and I never knew where he went to church! AND DIDN'T CARE!!!)
We the public fucked up and let the MSM dictate a bullshit narrative that painted everyone in a corner, so now we all lose a little bit of our integrity, Obama loses the church he had for the last 20 years, and the church loses its reputation - and NO that is not Obama's fault, it's not even Wright's fault, or the fault of Fleger (or whatever his name is) since by right they all have freedom of speech, and what went on in the church should, hypothetically, have had NOTHING whatsoever to do without Obama's Presidential campaign since it is OBVIOUS that Obama's policies are sound (whether you agree with them or not), his mind is sound, and he is capable of making and consistently makes smart, independent judgments, etc. regardless of the beliefs of the church he attended and the religion he practices. Contrast that with McCain and the Republican Party which is in effect demonstrably beholden to Christian fundamentalists/m.
Having said that, Wright COULD have kept a stiller tongue and this other Rev. definitely COULD have chosen a different message, but neither of them HAD to or SHOULD have done that, and when they chose not to do so, WE THE PUBLIC should have dropped the shit and let it go rather than acting as if the story was actually worthy of debate and had merit. We should have shut down and shut up the MSM.
Instead, we sat around debating bullshit like, is he Black enough? Is he too Black? Is he loyal enough? Can his judgment be trusted given Rev. Wright? Is his church Christian enough? Is he an Uncle Tom? As if any of that changes the price of gas, ends the war in Iraq, gets us health care or puts food on the table.
The rest of the world is shaking its head at the indulgences we engage in during our election process. We take every frickin' thing personally.
Obama leaving his church at this time was a decision made by Obama and his family under the guidance of the church, period point blank. It was not a personal slight to you. He was not saying hey you anonymous blogger and all Black people, fuck off. It was simply an unfortunate decision that HAD to be made one way or another at some point in time for the benefit of everyone involved given the MSM feeding frenzy that took place and that we the public engaged.
And you can't say Obama SHOULD have left the church sooner, it's not your place to make that decision for him. Maybe he was hoping things would blow over and we would start focusing on policies again rather than another stupid nontroversy that does nothing for anybody and leaves us all feeling a little bit dirtier and dumber after it's all said and done.
You also can't say he should NOT have left the church, given that innocent people, who just wanted to worship in peace and have that right, were being harassed and threatened. And, given this new round of MSM BS, there was a good chance of this approaching a potentially dangerous situation, and had it become a dangerous situation, all talk would have been he should have left the church.
Clearly, this was not by ANY means an easy decision for anyone involved.
I, for one, am SICK of letting the media define people for me, because they NEVER EVER give a full picture of the person or the situation that they're focusing on. Right now, I'm far more concerned with looking at Obama's policies and platform. And policies and platforms should be the primary focus of this campaign.
I am not going to pass judgment on Obama the man, in this particular situation since I can't say what he would have could have or should have done because I am not in his shoes, and I don't know what the heck I would have could have or should have done if I were. And I'm sure that, given the chance, most of you who are so indignant above, would opt not to be in his shoes either because you wouldn't be able to cope with the shit that he deals with on a daily basis and as well as he has.
This doesn't mean Obama should be free of criticism, but this whole thing is a waste of time. A year from now, will we even remember this crap will it be even remotely important? Somehow, I doubt it.
______
Excellent point. I had not even thought that far, but you are absolutely right. The modern climate is hostile and presents new challenges.
"If we are more strategic and uncompromising in our support and work toward similar goals [cuz everyone isn't going to agree] we can bring about some positive changes in this country that meet OUR needs."
________
Again, dead on. We are too busy knit picking on flesh and blood. People are disappointing creatures. However, on the larger scale what are the benefits? In the corporate world (and we all know who runs that) a man could be sleeping with his co-worker's wife, shat in his toilet, and slashed his tired YET if the common goal of money is @ stake it will all be pushed aside. We should take note.
We live in a world where when "white" people get upset and start cussing, they are called "assertive."
Yet when "black" people get upset and start cussing, we are called "angry."
The MSM actions do not surprise me. In some ways, it's very good that some of us are agitating for the MSM to evolve...KEEP it UP. It is a good thing.
As for Barack Obama, he needs to remain true to himself and DEFY the MSM by never becoming the ANGRY BLACK MAN that THEY and indeed many other RACIST MOFOs in this country want him to BECOME.
Barack has got to be like Jackie Robinson. He must continue embracing those peaceful Hawaiian vibes that are embedded within him. Let Barack be Barack.
In the meantime, you all can be the vicarious VENT for Barack, Michelle, Malia and Sacha. I hope they come here and read this blog, so that they can find an intellectual release for the never-ending BS they face from the MSM and Billaries of the World...they need to be well rested for the Republican Onslaught.
For those who haven't read Barack's letter to the church, I implore you to do so. There is pain and anguish throughout, along with tremendous love and respect for the church he loudly proclaims led him to his faith.
My people, I'm begging you--we have to see the bigger picture here. We have to shed this tunnel vision we so often have about so many things. This man is running for the President of the United States of America. As of Tuesday night, he will "officially" be the Democratic nominee. I believe in my heart he's going to win the general election in November.
Does anyone truly believe that he won't be better President than John McCain? That he won't do more for "us" than John McCain? That just the very image of him taking the oath of office in January 2009, which will be transmitted around the globe, won't in an instant change things forever?
I'm not saying Barack is the Magic Negro. He's not a god, he's not a magician, and he won't solve all the country's problems in one fell swoop. But, he has inspired me like none other. To paraphrase Michelle, for the first time in my adult life I am proud to be able to support such a phenomenally gifted man.
I never believed I would see such a day. I want to celebrate this extraordinary triumph. Not read a bunch of mean-spirited comments about how Barack is not "black enough" or "down enough", or some such nonsense. For those who have obsessed about his decision to leave Trinity, I fear that there really is nothing that Barack could do to appease you.
Elaine on Seinfeld said it best, could have been about Barack Obama….
ELAINE: I did not bare myself deliberately, but I tell you, I wish now that I had! Because it is not me that has been exposed, but you! For I have seen the nipple on your soul!
Obama has shown us a glimpse of his soul as he dumps his church…it ain’t very pretty. What a troubled lost man who wants to play president. Barak, go home, find yourself, before it is too late for you to “be a man, and take a stand.”
If you saw Barak Obama give the press conference today where he ditched his church membership, then you saw a very weak man indeed. I don’t agree with his church’s rhetoric but I did expect him to have faith in God’s house of worship and to not be influenced by the media. Senator Obama just does not have the core beliefs and soul to lead our nation.
He said that he refers to scripture every day. How can Senator Obama refer to the bible everyday and live with his own approval of abortion, the murder of God’s unborn children.
Had not Barack Obama read Psalm 23:4 since he said that he referred to the scriptures every day.
Psalm 23:4 Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil: for thou art with me; thy rod and thy staff they comfort me.
Barack was on the ropes, hit with criticism. So what, every man is at least once in his life. Barack have not you read:
Matthew 16:8 Which when Jesus perceived, he said unto them, O ye of little faith, why reason ye among yourselves, because ye have brought no bread?
Didn’t Obama know that God would provide for him in times of trouble? I just don’t believe this poor lost soul of a man one bit.
I think this comes down to four things which indicate irreconcilable differences with the church:
1. Trinity is a mega church, and as such believes in spreading the "word of the Lord" as far as possible through any means possible. So if that's the case, then if pastor-obsessions (and what this really is is white people--specifically "journalists" like Ben Smith--who have never been exposed to the black church and its function being shocked because that's not the way it's done at the bland Episcopalian Church they go to), then there's massive temptation on the part of the church to create controversy and spread the word.
2. Reverend Wright is bitter. To date, he has remained quiet, but I don't expect that to last the election. I would be upset if I was him to, however I would also not want to give the real enemies--the media who twisted and distorted his words--the satisfaction of "bringing down Obama." If Wright popped up again between now and the election the media--which can't resist the freak show--would go nuts. And there'd be nothing left for Obama to do, which makes it a gigantic problem politically.
3. The fact that Trinity records all their sermons gives the media--and these people truly have no lives--a way to keep talking about Wright. Ultimately with $4 a gallon gas this isn't really an issue people care about. But the media is full of people who make $100,000 a month, so an extra ten bucks in the gas tank means nothing to them. This is about, as it always is with the media, cocktail party conversation. "Oh my God, did you see Father Pfleger?" No one cares, it's minute and irrelevant. But cocktail parties are about the inane.
4. What the media does with those video clips--selectively edit them and run them over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over again for 13 weeks has very real effects both on Obama personally and on Trinity. I'd imagine the threats on Obama have increased since Wright; and I know Trinity has received threats. Ultimately this distracts from both party's works, so it's best to go their separate ways.
I can understand that. However, given the Muslim smears, Barack would be wise to find a new church very, very quickly. A Baptist Church which does not allow cameras would be the perfect fit. But that's a personal decision. Still, he should have a new church ASAP.
My thoughts and prayers are with the Obama children - I know how important my church family was to me growing up. The adults shaped me, I made memories with the other kids. The foundation of my faith was developed.
Unlike some I do not have a black limitus test for Obama, just like I never got caught up in the abortion limitus test by republicans sought to impose [despite the fact I agreed with them].
I do not expect Obama to be the best president for blacks - but for Americans. Aren't we Americans too --- do we not deserve a thriving economy that includes well paying jobs for everyone, the honest hope that we can actually afford to send our children to school without mortgaging our homes, retirement and saddling our kids with $50K student loan debt by 22?
If you cannot accept the POLITICAL FACT that Obama is not likely to be at too many Black townhall meetings, then sorry we don't travel in the same reality.
Why cannot we not disagree, and yet refrain from name calling. damn if your support of Obama is so fickle that you can't walk through a little dust up without jumping off the bandwagon - than God bless ya and wish you well with the next 4 yrs of Bush/Chenay/Rove policies.
Do you really expect to agree with Obama on every issue and decision - I don't. but I try to refrain from letting emotions get teh best of me before reaching a final position on things.
Several months ago I heard Obama say that he prays to be an instrument of God. So, how is drawing all this attention to Trinity being an instrument.
christian liberal, you suggest Obama is putting his ambition before God and while there is some merit - looking out the outside becuase we can't see his heart - it was reported that he consulted with the Pastor and that he and his wife prayed about it for some time. I think we are best in leaving the judging of men to God.
I cannot see how he could have stepped foot inside of Trinity again. recently he even announced though he was in Chicago he was not going to the church in an effort to avoid being a distraction.
When he was in serving - would God or Obama be the focus?
I'm fine with his choice. Even if I am wrong - it is God that Obama will answer to on this one. Not me. Or you.
In your own words, what are Obama's proposals for dealing with the following as President:
1. Poverty
2. Civil Rights
3. Iraq
4. Education
5. Global warming
What are your definitions of the words "strong", "tough", "fighter" and "experienced"? Please give an example of at least three current politicians that you believe exemplify each of these adjectives, and state why you believe they do and give an example of how they have proven it.
What is your definition of "character"?
If you are voting/have voted for Hillary, do you believe that she has lied or pandered at all during this campaign? If yes, please give two examples.
Please also give two examples (outside of her being a female running for President) that illustrate how Hillary has clearly and intentionally expanded and improved the Democratic Party and the primary process itself during this campaign.
If you are voting/voted for McCain, do you believe he has lied or pandered at all during this campaign? If so, please give two examples.
Please also give two examples of two McCain proposals for improving the country that are, in your opinion, superior to proposals on the same topics put forth by Obama.
Do you believe that McCain has a clear understanding of Iraq, its people, its culture, its history, etc.?
Name three major successful initiatives that were spearheaded by Obama while a Senator in Illinois.
In your opinion, who were the top three Presidents of the United States during the last fifty years?
In your opinion, who were the worst three Presidents of the United States during the last fifty years?
On a scale of one to three with three being very important, please rate the following in order of importance to you re: choosing a presidential candidate to support.
-- Integrity
-- Courage
-- Intelligence
-- Race
-- Sex
-- Age
-- Party affiliation
-- Policy proposals
-- Charisma
-- Washington experience
-- Endorsements
-- Respect given by colleagues
-- Organizational skills
-- Past work performance
-- Voting record (if available)
-- Fundraising ability
-- Religion
-- Honesty
-- Temperament
-- Language skills
-- Proven ability to get things done
Well said.
Let the Church (and the Church-less)say, Amen!!
Its guilt by association by any means and, assuming that you are all raised in the U.S., you should've known that. Yes he had to leave his church. He's running a national campaign and with the unusually high attention he attracts anything would be used against him to write a narrative that says "he's TOO BLACK and therefore you can't trust him."
His church didn't exactly help on that front either. They understood that he had a real shot at winning and went out of their way to show out. Hell Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton, two people who know how to draw a crowd and a camera, had enough sense to stay quiet because they understood that they if raised a hint of full fledged support it would only be used to damage Senator Obama's chance to become President Obama.
As usual you can now count on black people to consider going against thier interests and decrease support due to him making a hard decision that helps Obama's viability in the fall. Yet black people normally allow white candidates for office disregard them at every waking moment and how do they pay them back for such disrespect? With a vote and a smile.
You attacked Shelia, Maxine, Tavis, Stephanie, Maya and converted John in your efforts to support Barry.
I say any of you that voted based on race, made excuse after excuse for Obama and/or did not demand more from Obama as it relates to the black community, deserve what you get.
You were warned.
By the way, I bet it was Michelle who kept the family at Trinity this long - not Barack Obama. He is an appeasing weasle that would have left a long time ago despite his lies to the contrary.
********
I want to talk about why there was a need for the Rules Committee to have met AT ALL. FL & MI broke the rules and should have gotten nothing. Here we have Hill & Bill trying to give all of us the big F-U and even now they insult the candidate and the voters. This was from Maggie [Mammy] Williams:
"Harold Ickes and Tina Flournoy made the following statement:
Today’s results are a victory for the people of Florida who will have a voice in selecting our Party’s nominee and will see its delegates seated at our party’s convention. The decision by the Rules and Bylaws Committee honors the votes that were cast by the people of Florida and allocates the delegates accordingly.
We strongly object to the Committee’s decision to undercut its own rules in seating Michigan’s delegates without reflecting the votes of the people of Michigan.
The Committee awarded to Senator Obama not only the delegates won by Uncommitted, but four of the delegates won by Senator Clinton. This decision violates the bedrock principles of our democracy and our Party.
We reserve the right to challenge this decision before the Credentials Committee and appeal for a fair allocation of Michigan’s delegates that actually reflect the votes as they were cast. "
Does this sound like a concession in the works or enthusiastic support? It just seems like Obama is damned if he does or damned if doesn't do something.
Obama will cross the "magic number" this week. Once he does that he's the nominee. At that point, Hillary can appeal to as many committees as she wants. . . it won't make a bit of difference.
As a matter of fact, I think I heard that she doesn't even have the votes she needs on the credentials committee.
::
How Christian. How forgiving.
But culturally speaking, I'm disappointed that Barack couldn't see fit to FIGHT the media in order to bring about a change in their coverage, depiction, and treatment of Black folk.
The media have been rewarded for their mockery of a Black institution--an institution that they never cared to understand or appreciate in the past, and won't care a thing about in the future.
This was simply an exercise in "flexing" on the media's part--to remind us that they control us, not the other way around. Most Black folks held firm. I wish Barack had done the same.
self-interest, he cut his ties to first his pastor and then his church, both of which he had expressed familial love and fidelity. This whole episode is deeply unattractive, even as it is deeply revealing.
Underneath the attractive veneer of Barack Obama beats the heart of a very, very ambitious man. Time will tell how problematic this may be and what snares this character trait may eventually lead him into."
Barack has seen fit to allow the Democratic Party to treat him (and the vast majority of its Black constituents) with utter contempt and disgrace. Many in the media treated him and us just the same.
Yet Barack took the opportunity to punish Trinity for its actions rather than the Democratic Party and mainstream media that have mocked and ridiculed him and us for over a year now.
I'll certainly forgive him this mistake, but he'd better start showing more courageous examples of CHANGE ... and quickly.
What I am excited about is black blogs like JJP and the lively discussions. Something is really happening in the black middle class and I am looking forward to how we are going to impact the future of American politics.
I get sad when I hear people here being overly harsh on their fellow black people, writing things like "you people" and arguing as if there is one right way to be an independent, successful and happy black person. But I by no means want JJP to be some kind of black haven where we all agree. I say keep up the disagreements because it was white racism that said we all think and look alike. It's only through talking and diversity of opinions that liberating change occurs so keep it up!
I think I am as close to neutral as you can get on Obama. I will vote for him just because he seems most able to create some stability in the country when compared to McCain or even Clinton (who is finally a non-issue, right?). But as a person or politician, I am not that excited about him. Nor do I think anyone should be "excited" about a politician - that is the road to totalitarianism.
The fact is nobody is watching Hillary and McCain's chruch because they are white. I don't agree with everything Obama does, but I also realize the reason he does it. The man can't change the world and the media in every way, even if that would be nice. Nobody looked fairly at Trinity because nobody knew a thing about black churches other then Roland Martin on CNN and he's barely seen.
You know Obama didn't want to have to leave. He could have left and threw Wright under the bus when the original comments came out. He could have left before he ran for president and he didn't.
Loved that comment! Thanks for making me smile
I am not making excuses for him because he is choosing that path, but I just want people to be real about what all of us are mired in and I don't think any of us are uncompromised black Americans. We are all sold out somewhere in us - that's being human! We aren't islands.
Here, here, ditto.
maybe a thread can be started to take bets, assuming the focus group has run it by the msm first.
I agree with your assessment 100%. That is how I feel.
1. Politically, he had to. Some people here are acting as if we don’t know that. We do! However it still makes us sad.
2. The hypocrisy, double standard and racism in this were glaring.
You said: "But culturally speaking, I'm disappointed that Barack couldn't see fit to FIGHT the media in order to bring about a change in their coverage, depiction, and treatment of Black folk.”
You also said:
“The media have been rewarded for their mockery of a Black institution--an institution that they never cared to understand or appreciate in the past, and won't care a thing about in the future.
This was simply an exercise in "flexing" on the media's part--to remind us that they control us, not the other way around. Most Black folks held firm. I wish Barack had done the same."
That was great. That’s how I feel too. You know, our society has been doing this for decades and centuries. They have always got away with it. As I keep saying, I am infuriated at the media not necessarily Barack and not Trinity. Trinity has been doing what they have been doing for 36 years.
"Barack has seen fit to allow the Democratic Party to treat him (and the vast majority of its Black constituents) with utter contempt and disgrace. Many in the media treated him and us just the same.
Yet Barack took the opportunity to punish Trinity for its actions rather than the Democratic Party and mainstream media that have mocked and ridiculed him and us for over a year now.
I'll certainly forgive him this mistake, but he'd better start showing more courageous examples of CHANGE ... and quickly."
That's how I feel too.
Gov. Rendell was praising Farrakhan...on stage!! Its hypocrisy. Where was the media there. There is no footage of Obama doing that yet they continued to hammer him about Farrakhan. The litmus test must go.
It's hard to believe in CHANGE, have HOPE and UNITY when I feel this way. These people went unchecked. Somebody in the media, somebody black needs to put them in check.
That is not the case. It is far from it.
And here's the other thing, maybe Obama really does disagree with what Pfleger said.
Maybe he really does disagree with some of Wright's comments.
Maybe he really didn't want Trinity to be under the microscope for the next several months.
Maybe his decision wasn't entirely politically motivated.
You bought the media narrative in regards to the church. Obama is not getting spiritual growth. However he is getting political growth (to an extent).
Terrence-
Get a Life!! You black Hillary Clinton supporter!!Not here! Go talk about your desperate candidate! There is nothing more embarassing than supporting Hillary Rodham "And I'm Telling You I'm Not Going, Tonya Harding" Nixon.
I still am behind Obama 100% however we hold the right to agree and disagree. The fact is that the man was backed into a corner by the white mainstream media whose job it is to look out for the white establishment and social order.
Obama is the man for the job not Hilla-monster.
Link to part 1 (there are 3 parts) is here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mH4orJm2lWw... cut and paste.
Shake off the Pixie Dust!
And here's the direct link to part 1 of the press conference I posted above:
Part 1 of press conference re: Church and DNC R&B; decision.
Rev. Wright and Rev. Moss are great leaders of our Black Liberation Theology. Their mistake was that they informed the white man. Hell, in slave days, the white plantation master wouldn't even allow his black uncle tom slaves to learn to read and write. Do you, my brothers, think that the whitey establishment is going to allow ANY organized teaching thats going to lead our people away from the white economic slavery of today? Dude, wake up, and stop telling the white man our plans. Obama aint goings to get elected now that the black cat is out of the bag. Bolika!!!
The UCC is a mainstream, national denomination. I doubt it'll be hard to find another church within the UCC family. AFAIK, not all UCC churches look like Trinity.
Secondly, I do believe the split w/ TUCC didn't come easy. I mean for goodness sake, he named his book after one of the sermons he heard from Rev. Wright himself. It's extremely inconvienient politically yet he still did it. I think that says something.
" Politically speaking, it had to be done.
But culturally speaking, I'm disappointed that Barack could not see fit
to FIGHT the media in order to bring about a change in their coverage,
depiction, and treatment of Black folk."
I agree with Ronnie on this. That said, it has been extraordinarily
difficult for his family and church family, he said the media has
disrupted his church in a negative way.That could be the reason he is
leaving. This all speaks to the media, the pundits, and Corporate America.
So much of the mainstream media is owned by a small group of powerful
interest.
The last candidate they would want in power would be one who is not
Huxlian. I found this information after reading a corporate talking head
comment that American's would not be informed of the following because it
would cause them to consider the morality of Corporate America. Well, it
has and all I can ask is, Where is your pension money invested in? This
could be another Enron in the making.
From the Aisan Times
Take the oil prices. You will not here any of this in the mainstream:
Since the advent of oil futures trading and the two major London and New
York oil futures contracts, control of oil prices has left the Organization
of the Petroleum Exporting Countries (OPEC) and gone to Wall Street. It is
a classic case of the "tail that wags the dog".
A June 2006 US Senate Permanent Subcommittee on Investigations report on
"The Role of Market Speculation in rising oil and gas prices" noted, "...
there is substantial evidence supporting the conclusion that the large
amount of speculation in the current market has significantly increased
prices".
What the senate committee staff documented in the report was a gaping
loophole in US government regulation of oil derivatives trading so huge a
herd of elephants could walk through it. That seems precisely what they
have been doing in ramping oil prices through the roof in recent months.
The senate report was ignored in the media and in the Congress. The report
pointed out that the Commodity Futures Trading Trading Commission, a
financial futures regulator, had been mandated by Congress to ensure that
prices on the futures market reflect the laws of supply and demand rather
than manipulative practices or excessive speculation. The US Commodity
Exchange Act (CEA) states:
Excessive speculation in any commodity under contracts of sale of such
commodity for future delivery ... causing sudden or unreasonable
fluctuations or unwarranted changes in the price of such commodity, is an
undue and unnecessary burden on interstate commerce in such commodity.
Further, the CEA directs the CFTC to establish such trading limits "as the
commission finds are necessary to diminish, eliminate, or prevent such
burden". Where is the CFTC now that we need such limits? It seems to have
deliberately walked away from its mandated oversight responsibilities in
the world's most important traded commodity, oil. As that US Senate report
noted:
"Until recently, US energy futures were traded exclusively on regulated
exchanges within the United States, like the NYMEX, which are subject to
extensive oversight by the CFTC, including ongoing monitoring to detect and
prevent price manipulation or fraud. In recent years, however, there has
been a tremendous growth in the trading of contracts that look and are
structured just like futures contracts, but which are traded on unregulated
OTC [over the counter] electronic markets. Because of their similarity to
futures contracts they are often called "futures look-alikes"
To read more go to:
A glance at the price for Brent and WTI futures prices since January 2006
indicates the remarkable correlation between skyrocketing oil prices and
the unregulated trade in ICE oil futures in US markets....
Keep in mind that ICE Futures in London is owned and controlled by a US
company based in Atlanta, Georgia.
A glance at the price for Brent and WTI futures prices since January 2006
indicates the remarkable correlation between skyrocketing oil prices and
the unregulated trade in ICE oil futures in US markets. Keep in mind that
ICE Futures in London is owned
and controlled by a US company based in Atlanta, Georgia.
Over the past couple of years, global crude oil production has increased
along with increases in demand; in fact, during this period global supplies
have exceeded demand, according to the US Department of Energy
Dollar and oil link
A common speculation strategy amid a declining US economy and a falling US
dollar is for speculators and ordinary investment funds desperate for more
profitable investments amid the US securitization disaster to take futures
positions selling the dollar "short" and oil "long"
For huge US or EU pension funds or banks desperate to get profits following
the collapse in earnings since August 2007 and the US real estate crisis,
oil is one of the best ways to get huge speculative gains. The backdrop
that supports the current oil price bubble is continued unrest in the
Middle East, in Sudan, in Venezuela and Pakistan and firm oil demand in
China and most of the world outside the US. Speculators trade on rumor, not
fact.
In turn, once major oil companies and refiners in North America and
European Union countries begin to hoard oil, supplies appear even tighter
lending background support to present prices.
Because the OTC and London ICE Futures energy markets are unregulated,
there are no precise or reliable figures as to the total dollar value of
recent spending on investments in energy commodities, but the estimates are
consistently in the range of tens of billions of dollars.
The increased speculative interest in commodities is also seen in the
increasing popularity of commodity index funds, which are funds whose price
is tied to the price of a basket of various commodity futures. Goldman
Sachs estimates that pension funds and mutual funds have invested a total
of approximately $85 billion in commodity index funds, and that investments
in its own index, the Goldman Sachs Commodity Index, have tripled over the
past few years. US Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson is a former chairman of
Goldman Sachs.
F William Engdahl is author of A Century of War: Anglo-American Oil
Politics and the New World Order. He may be contacted at
info@engdahl.oilgeopolitics.net
This is exactly why I support Hillary Clinton. You, unwittingly, have now exposed the fact which we all knew. Namely, that Barack Obama is from a radical BLT church and that he really holds the white man accountable for his problems (not discounting that 8 of 9 murders in New Orleans are black on black.) I am horrified that you people in BLT are brainwashing black children to think that honest white Americans want to harm them. How outlandish and rube-centered thinking!!!! Obama should be thanking we people for even building Princeton University so that he would have a chance at a good US education. I mean, really, when was the last time that a white student chose Howard University over George Washington. I am so desperate right now....to reach out to the millions of black-type people of this country and to hold them and to say "White people love you." It was only from my mother, who had lots of black maids, that I would have even been exposed to the black race, but that has all changed since integration. Not that integration would not have occurred naturally within a few decades anyhow. Oh, well, go Hillary.
On another topic, Obama is down 17 pts against McCain on two national security issues, North Korea and East-West relations. Obama might want to consider visiting North Korea.
_____
Correction. I'm pulling from my own experiences with God when I use the term "spiritual growth". Does that tie into other aspects of life? Absolutely. Spirituality/Career/Family are intertwined based on the Word. I'm not here to make this a theology debate, however I felt the need to comment since so many where on a religious high horse. I also don't think the media is framing this as anything other than a "sensational" story. They could care less about faith outside the demographics talk .
Wow melissa, like that? See that is precisely the kind of "christian" mindset that keeps alot people from going to church. Is that what Jesus would do? How ignorant...