Jack and Jill Politics - Latest Comments in The Obamas Leave Trinity

Re: The Obamas Leave Trinity

Black American Princess — Sun, 01 Jun 2008 19:45:00 -0000

"He's not invited. He better not walk back in. Not in my church

Wow melissa, like that? See that is precisely the kind of "christian" mindset that keeps alot people from going to church. Is that what Jesus would do? How ignorant...

Re: The Obamas Leave Trinity

Anonymous — Sun, 01 Jun 2008 15:39:00 -0000

You bought the media narrative in regards to the church. Obama is not getting spiritual growth. However he is getting political growth (to an extent).
_____

Correction. I'm pulling from my own experiences with God when I use the term "spiritual growth". Does that tie into other aspects of life? Absolutely. Spirituality/Career/Family are intertwined based on the Word. I'm not here to make this a theology debate, however I felt the need to comment since so many where on a religious high horse. I also don't think the media is framing this as anything other than a "sensational" story. They could care less about faith outside the demographics talk .

Re: The Obamas Leave Trinity

Anonymous — Sun, 01 Jun 2008 14:42:00 -0000

The Obama - Trinity issue is not dead...Wolfe Blitzer was discussing it today on CNN with a Republican strategist...I never thought Wolfe would see out our party for ratings. Somebody reel that moron back to reality. Obama in 08!!!

On another topic, Obama is down 17 pts against McCain on two national security issues, North Korea and East-West relations. Obama might want to consider visiting North Korea.

Re: The Obamas Leave Trinity

Anonymous — Sun, 01 Jun 2008 14:28:00 -0000

I think that we all need to calm down. It's not the religion, it's the person. Senator Obama, for all his mistakes, will be our nominee. So, just vote Democratic like you always have and we'll all come out of this election in one piece. See you in Denver.

Re: The Obamas Leave Trinity

Anonymous — Sun, 01 Jun 2008 14:24:00 -0000

anonymous 11:19 - Oh my God!!!! I cannot believe that you said that!! Don't you realize that you are spouting racist remarks. Look, I am supporting Senator Clinton, but I would rather you just vote for Obama. Not in my party.

Re: The Obamas Leave Trinity

Anonymous — Sun, 01 Jun 2008 14:19:00 -0000

To Anon 10:59

This is exactly why I support Hillary Clinton. You, unwittingly, have now exposed the fact which we all knew. Namely, that Barack Obama is from a radical BLT church and that he really holds the white man accountable for his problems (not discounting that 8 of 9 murders in New Orleans are black on black.) I am horrified that you people in BLT are brainwashing black children to think that honest white Americans want to harm them. How outlandish and rube-centered thinking!!!! Obama should be thanking we people for even building Princeton University so that he would have a chance at a good US education. I mean, really, when was the last time that a white student chose Howard University over George Washington. I am so desperate right now....to reach out to the millions of black-type people of this country and to hold them and to say "White people love you." It was only from my mother, who had lots of black maids, that I would have even been exposed to the black race, but that has all changed since integration. Not that integration would not have occurred naturally within a few decades anyhow. Oh, well, go Hillary.

Re: The Obamas Leave Trinity

Anonymous — Sun, 01 Jun 2008 14:16:00 -0000

Ronnie B said...

" Politically speaking, it had to be done.

But culturally speaking, I'm disappointed that Barack could not see fit

to FIGHT the media in order to bring about a change in their coverage,

depiction, and treatment of Black folk."

I agree with Ronnie on this. That said, it has been extraordinarily

difficult for his family and church family, he said the media has

disrupted his church in a negative way.That could be the reason he is

leaving. This all speaks to the media, the pundits, and Corporate America.

So much of the mainstream media is owned by a small group of powerful

interest.

The last candidate they would want in power would be one who is not

Huxlian. I found this information after reading a corporate talking head

comment that American's would not be informed of the following because it

would cause them to consider the morality of Corporate America. Well, it

has and all I can ask is, Where is your pension money invested in? This

could be another Enron in the making.

From the Aisan Times

Take the oil prices. You will not here any of this in the mainstream:

Since the advent of oil futures trading and the two major London and New

York oil futures contracts, control of oil prices has left the Organization

of the Petroleum Exporting Countries (OPEC) and gone to Wall Street. It is

a classic case of the "tail that wags the dog".

A June 2006 US Senate Permanent Subcommittee on Investigations report on

"The Role of Market Speculation in rising oil and gas prices" noted, "...

there is substantial evidence supporting the conclusion that the large

amount of speculation in the current market has significantly increased

prices".

What the senate committee staff documented in the report was a gaping

loophole in US government regulation of oil derivatives trading so huge a

herd of elephants could walk through it. That seems precisely what they

have been doing in ramping oil prices through the roof in recent months.

The senate report was ignored in the media and in the Congress. The report

pointed out that the Commodity Futures Trading Trading Commission, a

financial futures regulator, had been mandated by Congress to ensure that

prices on the futures market reflect the laws of supply and demand rather

than manipulative practices or excessive speculation. The US Commodity

Exchange Act (CEA) states:

Excessive speculation in any commodity under contracts of sale of such

commodity for future delivery ... causing sudden or unreasonable

fluctuations or unwarranted changes in the price of such commodity, is an

undue and unnecessary burden on interstate commerce in such commodity.

Further, the CEA directs the CFTC to establish such trading limits "as the

commission finds are necessary to diminish, eliminate, or prevent such

burden". Where is the CFTC now that we need such limits? It seems to have

deliberately walked away from its mandated oversight responsibilities in

the world's most important traded commodity, oil. As that US Senate report

noted:

"Until recently, US energy futures were traded exclusively on regulated

exchanges within the United States, like the NYMEX, which are subject to

extensive oversight by the CFTC, including ongoing monitoring to detect and

prevent price manipulation or fraud. In recent years, however, there has

been a tremendous growth in the trading of contracts that look and are

structured just like futures contracts, but which are traded on unregulated

OTC [over the counter] electronic markets. Because of their similarity to

futures contracts they are often called "futures look-alikes"

To read more go to:

A glance at the price for Brent and WTI futures prices since January 2006

indicates the remarkable correlation between skyrocketing oil prices and

the unregulated trade in ICE oil futures in US markets....

Keep in mind that ICE Futures in London is owned and controlled by a US

company based in Atlanta, Georgia.

A glance at the price for Brent and WTI futures prices since January 2006

indicates the remarkable correlation between skyrocketing oil prices and

the unregulated trade in ICE oil futures in US markets. Keep in mind that

ICE Futures in London is owned

and controlled by a US company based in Atlanta, Georgia.

Over the past couple of years, global crude oil production has increased

along with increases in demand; in fact, during this period global supplies

have exceeded demand, according to the US Department of Energy

Dollar and oil link

A common speculation strategy amid a declining US economy and a falling US

dollar is for speculators and ordinary investment funds desperate for more

profitable investments amid the US securitization disaster to take futures

positions selling the dollar "short" and oil "long"

For huge US or EU pension funds or banks desperate to get profits following

the collapse in earnings since August 2007 and the US real estate crisis,

oil is one of the best ways to get huge speculative gains. The backdrop

that supports the current oil price bubble is continued unrest in the

Middle East, in Sudan, in Venezuela and Pakistan and firm oil demand in

China and most of the world outside the US. Speculators trade on rumor, not

fact.

In turn, once major oil companies and refiners in North America and

European Union countries begin to hoard oil, supplies appear even tighter

lending background support to present prices.

Because the OTC and London ICE Futures energy markets are unregulated,

there are no precise or reliable figures as to the total dollar value of

recent spending on investments in energy commodities, but the estimates are

consistently in the range of tens of billions of dollars.

The increased speculative interest in commodities is also seen in the

increasing popularity of commodity index funds, which are funds whose price

is tied to the price of a basket of various commodity futures. Goldman

Sachs estimates that pension funds and mutual funds have invested a total

of approximately $85 billion in commodity index funds, and that investments

in its own index, the Goldman Sachs Commodity Index, have tripled over the

past few years. US Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson is a former chairman of

Goldman Sachs.

F William Engdahl is author of A Century of War: Anglo-American Oil

Politics and the New World Order. He may be contacted at

info@engdahl.oilgeopolitics.net

Re: The Obamas Leave Trinity

leneypoo — Sun, 01 Jun 2008 14:05:00 -0000

First off, to the people who think he's just going to sign up to the nearest Catholic Church because he needs the demo: I really hope not.

The UCC is a mainstream, national denomination. I doubt it'll be hard to find another church within the UCC family. AFAIK, not all UCC churches look like Trinity.

Secondly, I do believe the split w/ TUCC didn't come easy. I mean for goodness sake, he named his book after one of the sermons he heard from Rev. Wright himself. It's extremely inconvienient politically yet he still did it. I think that says something.

Re: The Obamas Leave Trinity

Anonymous — Sun, 01 Jun 2008 13:59:00 -0000

Tell you what the fuss is about...

Rev. Wright and Rev. Moss are great leaders of our Black Liberation Theology. Their mistake was that they informed the white man. Hell, in slave days, the white plantation master wouldn't even allow his black uncle tom slaves to learn to read and write. Do you, my brothers, think that the whitey establishment is going to allow ANY organized teaching thats going to lead our people away from the white economic slavery of today? Dude, wake up, and stop telling the white man our plans. Obama aint goings to get elected now that the black cat is out of the bag. Bolika!!!

Re: The Obamas Leave Trinity

Anonymous — Sun, 01 Jun 2008 12:33:00 -0000

Also, please read the following entry from Daily Kos:
Shake off the Pixie Dust!

And here's the direct link to part 1 of the press conference I posted above:

Part 1 of press conference re: Church and DNC R&B; decision.

Re: The Obamas Leave Trinity

Anonymous — Sun, 01 Jun 2008 12:23:00 -0000

Look, would people please watch the ENTIRE press conference before going off and making ASSumptions?
Link to part 1 (there are 3 parts) is here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mH4orJm2lWw
... cut and paste.

Re: The Obamas Leave Trinity

RhondaCoca — Sun, 01 Jun 2008 12:09:00 -0000

Anon 8:37-

You bought the media narrative in regards to the church. Obama is not getting spiritual growth. However he is getting political growth (to an extent).

Terrence-

Get a Life!! You black Hillary Clinton supporter!!Not here! Go talk about your desperate candidate! There is nothing more embarassing than supporting Hillary Rodham "And I'm Telling You I'm Not Going, Tonya Harding" Nixon.

I still am behind Obama 100% however we hold the right to agree and disagree. The fact is that the man was backed into a corner by the white mainstream media whose job it is to look out for the white establishment and social order.

Obama is the man for the job not Hilla-monster.

Re: The Obamas Leave Trinity

Anonymous — Sun, 01 Jun 2008 11:37:00 -0000

Obviously this took time! There was some anguish in the decision. And believe it or not it will be the Churches who are held most accountable, and judged first. Frankly, I wonder how much of the Word was getting into some of these sermons as hell bent on politics they seem to have been. This would definitely not be my choice of congregation. However, this was the place Obama called home for two decades and now it is not. People leave churches for various reasons, his are more obvious than most. I challenge anyone to say they actually thought he was still in attendance? And if you knew he was not, then why jump on this as if it is a surprise. What God would have you do for you and His will is almost always going to raise some eyebrows. I worry for my fellow Christians when people are expounding the virtue of being tied until death to a Church without any question of what God would have you or in this case, Obama to do. Spiritual growth at times means CHANGE.

Re: The Obamas Leave Trinity

Adam — Sun, 01 Jun 2008 11:25:00 -0000

I think Obama is trying to pick his battles. The point of this is to take McCain on the issues (health care, the economy, Iraq) and Trinity was going to be a distraction to that.

And here's the other thing, maybe Obama really does disagree with what Pfleger said.

Maybe he really does disagree with some of Wright's comments.

Maybe he really didn't want Trinity to be under the microscope for the next several months.

Maybe his decision wasn't entirely politically motivated.

Re: The Obamas Leave Trinity

RhondaCoca — Sun, 01 Jun 2008 11:21:00 -0000

Also, I am offended to the heights when people assume that those who dont agree with this decision are shortsighted or are trying to say that Obama is not "black enough". Stop with that rhetoric.

That is not the case. It is far from it.

Re: The Obamas Leave Trinity

RhondaCoca — Sun, 01 Jun 2008 11:17:00 -0000

Thanks Ronnie B.,

I agree with your assessment 100%. That is how I feel.

1. Politically, he had to. Some people here are acting as if we don’t know that. We do! However it still makes us sad.

2. The hypocrisy, double standard and racism in this were glaring.

You said: "But culturally speaking, I'm disappointed that Barack couldn't see fit to FIGHT the media in order to bring about a change in their coverage, depiction, and treatment of Black folk.”

You also said:

“The media have been rewarded for their mockery of a Black institution--an institution that they never cared to understand or appreciate in the past, and won't care a thing about in the future.

This was simply an exercise in "flexing" on the media's part--to remind us that they control us, not the other way around. Most Black folks held firm. I wish Barack had done the same."

That was great. That’s how I feel too. You know, our society has been doing this for decades and centuries. They have always got away with it. As I keep saying, I am infuriated at the media not necessarily Barack and not Trinity. Trinity has been doing what they have been doing for 36 years.

"Barack has seen fit to allow the Democratic Party to treat him (and the vast majority of its Black constituents) with utter contempt and disgrace. Many in the media treated him and us just the same.

Yet Barack took the opportunity to punish Trinity for its actions rather than the Democratic Party and mainstream media that have mocked and ridiculed him and us for over a year now.

I'll certainly forgive him this mistake, but he'd better start showing more courageous examples of CHANGE ... and quickly."

That's how I feel too.

Gov. Rendell was praising Farrakhan...on stage!! Its hypocrisy. Where was the media there. There is no footage of Obama doing that yet they continued to hammer him about Farrakhan. The litmus test must go.

It's hard to believe in CHANGE, have HOPE and UNITY when I feel this way. These people went unchecked. Somebody in the media, somebody black needs to put them in check.

Re: The Obamas Leave Trinity

SquarePeg — Sun, 01 Jun 2008 10:04:00 -0000

ditto to anon 5:10 that is.

maybe a thread can be started to take bets, assuming the focus group has run it by the msm first.

Re: The Obamas Leave Trinity

SquarePeg — Sun, 01 Jun 2008 10:01:00 -0000

anonymous:

Here, here, ditto.

Re: The Obamas Leave Trinity

Anonymous — Sun, 01 Jun 2008 09:37:00 -0000

Barack Obama is just a human being. he just so happens to be seen as black. I assume the majority of us here are people who get seen as black and treated accordingly. Negotiating white-dominated institutions is exhausting at times and this man is trying to access the most elite of white elite clubs in the US and some people seem to expect him to do it without compromising? White people can even get there without compromising.

I am not making excuses for him because he is choosing that path, but I just want people to be real about what all of us are mired in and I don't think any of us are uncompromised black Americans. We are all sold out somewhere in us - that's being human! We aren't islands.

Re: The Obamas Leave Trinity

Anonymous — Sun, 01 Jun 2008 09:29:00 -0000

@anon June 1 5:10am

Loved that comment! Thanks for making me smile

Re: The Obamas Leave Trinity

Anonymous — Sun, 01 Jun 2008 09:26:00 -0000

Trinity and Rev. Wright did him no favors at all. Rev. Wright did a great speech after the NAACP and then had to blow it with his attention whoring. What is that white man getting up and saying those things knowing the chruch is being watched? Obviously it's not all about him helping them, but about his future as well. There comes a time when you have to leave something. Now is the time. I guess it was mutual.

The fact is nobody is watching Hillary and McCain's chruch because they are white. I don't agree with everything Obama does, but I also realize the reason he does it. The man can't change the world and the media in every way, even if that would be nice. Nobody looked fairly at Trinity because nobody knew a thing about black churches other then Roland Martin on CNN and he's barely seen.

You know Obama didn't want to have to leave. He could have left and threw Wright under the bus when the original comments came out. He could have left before he ran for president and he didn't.

Re: The Obamas Leave Trinity

Anonymous — Sun, 01 Jun 2008 09:20:00 -0000

This is the same anon commentator from above: just wanted to add that the lack of attention on Obama's positions and policies (and he does have them - check out his website) is really worrying. It is self-indulgent to focus on reality show-like scandals and Obama's blackness when our country is going down the toilet.

Re: The Obamas Leave Trinity

Anonymous — Sun, 01 Jun 2008 09:15:00 -0000

This has been interesting reading and I can't say I have read all the posts but most of them.

What I am excited about is black blogs like JJP and the lively discussions. Something is really happening in the black middle class and I am looking forward to how we are going to impact the future of American politics.

I get sad when I hear people here being overly harsh on their fellow black people, writing things like "you people" and arguing as if there is one right way to be an independent, successful and happy black person. But I by no means want JJP to be some kind of black haven where we all agree. I say keep up the disagreements because it was white racism that said we all think and look alike. It's only through talking and diversity of opinions that liberating change occurs so keep it up!

I think I am as close to neutral as you can get on Obama. I will vote for him just because he seems most able to create some stability in the country when compared to McCain or even Clinton (who is finally a non-issue, right?). But as a person or politician, I am not that excited about him. Nor do I think anyone should be "excited" about a politician - that is the road to totalitarianism.

Re: The Obamas Leave Trinity

Ronnie B — Sun, 01 Jun 2008 08:45:00 -0000

Trinity's leadership could have taken the time to recognize that the white media would be all over them. Rather than maintain a Godly and loving image, they fought back and raised the level inflammation.

Re: The Obamas Leave Trinity

Anonymous — Sun, 01 Jun 2008 08:27:00 -0000

Obama left Trinity Church for the same reason he joined it -- political opportunism. The theology was always something he could take or leave. Both facts, the opportunism and the agnosticism about Rev. Wright's brand of black liberation theology, reflect very poorly on Obama.