Jack and Jill Politics - Latest Comments in Tim Wise Stirring the Pot

Re: Tim Wise Stirring the Pot

Mitch5555 — Thu, 12 Jun 2008 10:51:00 -0000

This site is really going down hill quickly. What is going on with all this labeling? Defining someone as a field negro is absurd. One person's field negro is another persons house negro. This same concept applies to the use of terrorist. Black panthers and civi right activists were labeled as terrorist by White conservatives, but to the disenfranchise they were freedom fighters. This could go on and on. And, to uphold Bill Cosby's harsh and nasty comments is also totally wrong. Bill had the chance to do something powerful with his celebrity and as a philanthrophist. He had a chance to use his influence and wealth to impact change in poor inner city communities. He could easily adopted and invested in one poor inner city community to impact change. Upgrade the housing, remove blight, work to reduce crime by removing gangs, add resources to the elementary and middle schools to assist in educating the children, provide parents with the neccessary training to either get an education or to develop a well develop trade skill to improve their income. If Bill would have attempted to make this happen, and I am sure it would have succeeded what a great success for others to follow. But to diss and mock people in open disdainment was foolish and failed to result in anything. It seems all of you are still caught up in the so-called Black middle syndrome. Get over it and get over yourself. You all are coming across as the people that Marcus Garvey mocked when he visited W.E.B DuBois at his newspaper office with his almost White lilly looking office that some how seemed to lack anyone of a darker skin complexion. Our brothers and sisters are struggling because of years of neglect. Years of being disenfranchise and fenced into a plight of despair. To me it seems several of you are coming across as house negroes attempting to fashioning yourself as field negroes, but lack the heart and soul to bring any real change. And, this is coming from a man that hate labels.

Re: Tim Wise Stirring the Pot

Afrodite — Thu, 12 Jun 2008 10:33:00 -0000

"FAUX NEWS ONCE AGAIN PROVING WHY THEY ARE THE SKID MARKS ON THE UNDERPANTS OF SOCIETY"

So I was over at Huffingtonpost.com

and was pretty disturbed at something I read...Now I knew Faux news was bad..but I didn't know it was this bad. They have already had to fire an anchor woman for referring to Barack and Michelle's fist bump as a "terrorist fist jab." Now some other simple ass chick has called Michelle, "Barack's Baby Mama"... I think we really need to do something about this news.

HERE'S THE LINK

http://www.huffingtonpost.c...

Re: Tim Wise Stirring the Pot

Plantsmantx — Thu, 12 Jun 2008 01:20:00 -0000

"It's too bad that he isn't on "Countdown" or "Real Time" with Maher. Else he'd really be making the ducats, right?"

Yeah, I guess it is too bad we don't see him on TV as much as say, Jesse Lee Peterson, but I guess Jesse is just that much better, huh?

Re: Tim Wise Stirring the Pot

Michelle — Wed, 11 Jun 2008 16:05:00 -0000

heartsandflowers @ 7:33pm:

Thank you. I was irrationally afraid to come back to this discussion after posting what I did. I am critical of this, and I know some others are too -- but there's this feeling in me that speaking about this publicly seems to break some sort of invisible rule and so bad things might happen. So I avoided even coming back to this thread til right now. Me being crazy, I guess.

Well ... if racism isn't static, as Senator Obama says, and this piece about white people's willingness to actually listen to people of color as actual real legitimate humans were to change, Tim Wise would have to find another way to make a living. And there would be various losses to white people who are accustomed to getting praise and other benefits from being the "good ones" who must then translate to the "bad ones" in order for certain things to be heard.

In other words: I wonder if there is some hidden investment in it staying static among those who benefit, and if so what does that investment look like in practice.

Re: Tim Wise Stirring the Pot

Changeseeker — Wed, 11 Jun 2008 11:53:00 -0000

Tim Wise is not an academic, as was suggested by another commentator above. He's just a really, really intelligent former collegiate debater whose writing and speaking on race regularly takes the varnish off the woodwork. Does he get paid to do it? Yes. Everybody that's not independently wealthy gets paid to do something. Does he snatch food out of the mouths of African-American babies doing it? Hardly.

Wise isn't running a scam. He's writing and talking about what he thinks is important in this country. So many White folks are racist that his perspective makes him unusual enough to get some attention, but if his perspective is on target, how could it be a bad thing for him to be heard in addition to (not instead of) African-American voices?

The fact that White people are not rushing to the altar over what he says does not in the least make it irrelevant. The African-Americans who gave their lives to fight The Power over the last 500 years did not live and die in vain just because institutionalized oppression in the name of racism still exists in this country. And to suggest that Tim Wise should sit down and shut up because he's not a person of color would be the same as suggesting that White "conductors" on the Underground Railroad should have stayed out of it. Some White people try to steal what ain't theirs. But some of us are just trying to be useful.

Re: Tim Wise Stirring the Pot

Admiral Komack — Wed, 11 Jun 2008 11:26:00 -0000

Sorry about the extra question mark (darn you, fingers!)

Re: Tim Wise Stirring the Pot

Admiral Komack — Wed, 11 Jun 2008 11:24:00 -0000

tova:

Do you have other sites you can recommend besides Bitchphd.com?

(I just want more than one site to look at)?

Thank you.

Re: Tim Wise Stirring the Pot

Tova — Wed, 11 Jun 2008 09:16:00 -0000

FYI there is a large and growing number of feminist blogs that are urging their pro-Hillary readers to support Obama. Many of these feminist blogs were already pro-Obama, which might surprise you, but it's true, but they are aware that they need to critique racist anti-Obama polemic, just as they need to critique woman hating when they see it.

Please don't make all feminists sound like racist sore losers. We're not.

I've been a feminist activist for thirty years, I'm white, and I've been for Obama since day one. As have most of my friends and colleagues. And those who were not are certainly not stupid enough to give a vote to the Republicans.

Get out there in cyberspace and see what grassroots feminists are saying. You can try Bitchphd.com for a start.

Re: Tim Wise Stirring the Pot

The Christian Progressive Libe — Wed, 11 Jun 2008 08:42:00 -0000

At least Cynthia McKinney congratulated Obama on his nomination, which is far more than Hillary did, and only because she was forced.

But, at least if they're not going to vote for Obama, they are going to vote their conscious and give it to Cynthia. I can accept that far easier than to give their vote away to a man who represents a third term of Lil' Bush.

Re: Tim Wise Stirring the Pot

Redstar — Wed, 11 Jun 2008 08:26:00 -0000

Wise's point is well taken.

I am a Clinton supporter and not one who plans to support McCain, and I am actively arguing with those who think McCain is a reasonable alternative to Obama.

I would just point out 2 things:

a) a lot of Clinton voters believe voting for McCain sends a "message" to the DNC/Howard Dean/Pelosi etc. about how Clinton was treated re: the sexism and misogyny they witnessed. I'm really concerned with the convoluted idea here that voting for the GOP somehow counts as "protest" against party elites. It has little to do with Obama in this scenario.

The only other thing I'd say is that I know many Clinton supporters who are planning to vote Green/for Cynthia McKinney. I've seen another post besides this one saying disgruntled Clinton voters aren't considering this and that's not true.

Re: Tim Wise Stirring the Pot

Big Mik — Wed, 11 Jun 2008 02:12:00 -0000

Love the article and I love the post by Field Negro on his blog about this.

It's not only white women who love Hillary going nuts, it's an AA woman who writes a blog called Sugar N Spice and she has flipped to the point Obama is the second coming of Satan. This lady makes me shake my head and wonder if she is for real or should I be calling the Secret Service to keep an eye out on her.

She is scary and she's not following her leader's (Hillary) lead.

Re: Tim Wise Stirring the Pot

kat — Wed, 11 Jun 2008 00:25:00 -0000

I LOVE Tim Wise. His writings are amazing.

Re: Tim Wise Stirring the Pot

Ms.Martin — Tue, 10 Jun 2008 23:30:00 -0000

Craig Hickman

I know, it's very painful, but I watch occassionally just to see what mess they're stirring up so I'm not surprised later.

They are working to keep the Hillary supporters fumed by repeating the Hillary for VP call that they know is not going to happen.

The interview with Boxer was worth watching though because she thoroughly squashed pro Hillary Blitzer's cry about what the Hillary voters are going to do.

It's really hard to watch any news anymore as I don't beleive Obama is given the respect that he deserves as. Which is evidenced by the continual coverage of the candidate that lost.

I would like to see Boxer out front more often. She point blank told Blitzer that they like to stir up trouble where there is none and proceeded to discount the fact that women when faced with Mccain's positions (which need outlined one by one) would vote for them.

I was especially please that she reminded Bliter and the viewers that Michelle is also a woman and working mother. I believe she also mentioned obama's mother, a single parent who had worked hard.

I wish the women in the party would come out in support just like Boxer did. Barack Obama is the epitome of what the American Dream cultivates. His success is what every decent, hardworking, loving parent would want for their child, especially a single mother.

Re: Tim Wise Stirring the Pot

heartsandflowers — Tue, 10 Jun 2008 22:33:00 -0000

Michelle at 12:54pm

I was just scrolling down the comments and was going to post the same thing. Tim Wise is telling the 'truth', but it is related to issues from the perspective of a white supremacy meme. So yes when we read his works he is preaching to the choir for the most part because we already know this. It is helpful for him to address white audiences and I would like to know how these issues will be resolved to our satisfaction. On one hand you could look at it as him being an anti-racism 'hustler'. If he was given special attention over other people of color saying the same things then it would be a perpetuation of that same meme he is denigrating. Like Obama has said racism is not static. As painful and uncomfortable as this all is, it's necessary so we can take steps past it, while still holding people accountable.

Evita @ 2:14pm YES! YES! YES!

Re: Tim Wise Stirring the Pot

Amanda — Tue, 10 Jun 2008 22:29:00 -0000

One more thing -- Thanks to whoever mentioned Barbara Boxer's comments, which I missed. Good on her for smacking down the "will white women vote for Obama" BS. I'm not surprised; Boxer has consistently impressed me, unlike Feinstein (just as one example). She's much more willing to be blunt and even be seen as liberal/radical. Also on pure self preservation grounds, she's perfectly aware of the growing diversity in her state and that Obama is polling strong. She's no dummy -- and she's up for reelection fairly soon I believe.

Re: Tim Wise Stirring the Pot

Craig Hickman — Tue, 10 Jun 2008 22:24:00 -0000

ms.martin,

Thanks. I almost refuse to watch CNN.

Re: Tim Wise Stirring the Pot

Amanda — Tue, 10 Jun 2008 22:19:00 -0000

Thank you for posting the Tim Wise oped. I couldn't agree with him more. And for the record I am a white feminist -- who has been seriously embarassed and horrified by the behavior and rhetoric displayed by certain so-called white feminists, many of them "leaders" and "icons" but whose status in that regard has been severely reduced in my eyes. Which has been sad, but maybe it's a good lesson for all of us -- to realize that people we've admired for years (Gloria Steinem, Ellen Malcolm, Geraldine Ferraro, etc) might not deserve our admiration after all. Honestly, if my choice of feminist icon is between Gloria Steinem and Michele Obama, or Geraldine Ferraro and Rachel Maddow -- it's an easy choice at this point. So, yeah, lesson learned.

Re: Tim Wise Stirring the Pot

Town — Tue, 10 Jun 2008 22:19:00 -0000

It is not their whiteness that is showing, it is their hatred of men that is showing. The more men in the party try and pressure them into accepting Obama, the greater the backlash.
----------

No, it's their whiteness that is showing. Because they are telling Obama, "Kiss our asses and grovel for our vote, or we'll vote for the white guy."

As someone has repeatedly said, why not vote for Cynthia McKinney? Ain't she a woman?

You're mad that a man "stole your show," so to fix him, you'll vote for...another man?

Get outta here with that crap! We all know nothing would be said by these so-called "feminists" if Chris Dodd or Joe Biden were the nominee.

If this faction were "hating on men," they would have started with Bill Clinton, who disrespected Hillary on a world wide stage, not to mention all the Paula Jones' and Monica Lewinskys' he ran across.

Yeah, their whiteness is showing. YOUR whiteness is showing when you fix your fingers to chastise US for "spewing vitriol," but leave the Harriet Christians and Geraldine Ferraros unchecked. Ok. Whatev.

Re: Tim Wise Stirring the Pot

Anonymous — Tue, 10 Jun 2008 21:46:00 -0000

Anon 6:36,
Lemme get this straight, when white women complain about sexism they are being "emotional." When black women complain about racism they are guilty of spewing "vitriol."

GTFOH with that crap.

Junglecat

Re: Tim Wise Stirring the Pot

evita — Tue, 10 Jun 2008 21:36:00 -0000

Anonymous Anonymous said...

It is not their whiteness that is showing, it is their hatred of men that is showing. The more men in the party try and pressure them into accepting Obama, the greater the backlash.

They decisions are based solely on emotion and the more they stay emotionally geared up the more entrenched their positions become.

Best to just leave it alone and soon cooler heads will prevail.

Any white woman who supported Hillary coming to this site would be shocked at the vitriol spewed here.

Unity? My a**

__________________

I think the point for many on this site that the focus not be soley on the white feminist perspective. The article is:

An Open Letter to Certain White Women Who Are Threatening to Withhold Support from Obama in November

Here's an important fact: There have been just about 500 years of slavery and other legal forms of oppressing black people in the United States which ended just 45 years ago or so.

You use the word vitriol like, again, we are not allowed to be angry to be treated as less than white people. This word assumes that white people and black people are treated fairly and equally in this land.

There is a HUGE difference between saying we are born equal under the stars and our experiences are equitable. You speak from the position of the former, we, the latter. Silence does not help secure equity. It ensures the status quo.

I want Unity. Acknowledge the racism and we'll be on that path.

Re: Tim Wise Stirring the Pot

jelana — Tue, 10 Jun 2008 21:35:00 -0000

anonymous
That is because you are white and cannot stand to hear the truth.

But you just keep coming and coming!

Re: Tim Wise Stirring the Pot

Ms.Martin — Tue, 10 Jun 2008 21:29:00 -0000

Craig Hickman

Today during an intervew with Wolf Blitzer during the Situatiion Room.

She was really handling him regarding whether or not women would support Obama. She silenced all of his fast talking.

Re: Tim Wise Stirring the Pot

Anonymous — Tue, 10 Jun 2008 20:52:00 -0000

It is not their whiteness that is showing, it is their hatred of men that is showing. The more men in the party try and pressure them into accepting Obama, the greater the backlash.

They decisions are based solely on emotion and the more they stay emotionally geared up the more entrenched their positions become.

Best to just leave it alone and soon cooler heads will prevail.

Any white woman who supported Hillary coming to this site would be shocked at the vitriol spewed here.

Unity? My a**

Re: Tim Wise Stirring the Pot

The Christian Progressive Libe — Tue, 10 Jun 2008 20:14:00 -0000

Evita:

Like Tim Wise said, "Their whiteness is showing".

Just like Hillary killed all good will within the Black community, bigots like Gerry the Klanswoman and Harriet "the Harpy" Christian, continue to finish any remaining good will, especially among women of color, off.

They were all too ready to come into Black Communities and agitate for a sista to claim her "rights" as a woman, when she had yet to claim those same equality rights as being a Negro.

Somehow, the original Black Panthers made that point, but they drowned it out with their own sexism towards their Black women.

See how fast they run to us when all of Affirmative Action is wiped out and they're placed back into being second-class citizens.

I've worked in Civil Rights for over 20 years - and I've never seen a white woman who didn't benefit from Affirmative Action before a Sista or a Brotha did. They conveniently forget that. In asking Barack Obama to kiss their asses in order to get their votes, I think, as Black Women, we need to send those harpies a reminder that if it weren't for sistas like Barbara Jordan and Shirley Chisholm, they wouldn't have jack, because those sistas had to prop Betty Friedan and crew when they came along, anyway.

Sistas had to teach the Betty Friedans of America how to get in those trenches and fight like the brothas.

How soon they forget that.

Re: Tim Wise Stirring the Pot

Craig Hickman — Tue, 10 Jun 2008 20:12:00 -0000

ms.martin said...

Senator Barbara Boxer is the first person whom I've heard mention Michelle Obama in regards to the women's struggle.

::

When? Where?