Jack and Jill Politics - Latest Comments in Trinity UCC’s Palm Sunday Statement

Re: Trinity UCC’s Palm Sunday Statement

Anonymous — Mon, 17 Mar 2008 22:02:00 -0000

How is it that Barack is getting heat for being a member of a church that actually gets out and helps people in its community, but noone is talking about Hillary's involvment with a "secretive Capital Hill group" where she participates in "conservative bible study and prayer circles" with the likes of Sam Brownback and Rick Santorum? Couldn't have anything to do with villifying the black church now could it?

Check out http://www.motherjones.com/news/feature/2007/09...>

Re: Trinity UCC’s Palm Sunday Statement

Ms.Martin — Mon, 17 Mar 2008 20:35:00 -0000

Txtruthsolja:

Excellent point that his Senate voting does not reflect any radical thinking.

I think it's safe to say the same about his position Iraq clears up any doubt about radical thinking.

It's radical to think that we need to be there 100 years.

Re: Trinity UCC’s Palm Sunday Statement

jelana — Mon, 17 Mar 2008 20:19:00 -0000

txtruthsoulja

I agree with you completely. It is quite obvious that Obama is exactly who he says he is. I am sure the speech tomorrow on race and religion

will confirm this.

Re: Trinity UCC’s Palm Sunday Statement

Nquest — Mon, 17 Mar 2008 18:28:00 -0000

@ Truthseeker

The last thing you can talk about is following protocol. Even in this "informal" setting you've violated "protocol" in the very ways I indicated. So it's not like you have respect for protocol, it's just a phony issue you think you can raise when nothing else will do.

Re: Trinity UCC’s Palm Sunday Statement

txtruthsoulja — Mon, 17 Mar 2008 18:19:00 -0000

The media will continue to run this issue into the ground, especially while people continue to make it such an issue, while McCain's identical situation is treated as a settled matter. The difference is melanin as far as I'm concerned, in the overall contest for President. My greatest concern and disappointment is the double standard. We are all familiar with the 'black tax' but damn.

When Geraldine Ferraro lost her mind by saying that Obama is only where he is because he's Black, and Hillary Clinton was asked about it she said simply, "I didn't say it". End of conversation.

John McCain says that "when he (Hagee) endorses me, it does not mean that I embrace everything that he stands for and believes in". He has addressed this situation on multiple occasions, but at the end of his conversation, this is the point to which he returns.

Why can't Senator Obama be afforded the same luxury?

I have belonged to the same church since 1981 with a minimum of 4 pastors on the roster at any given time. Each pastor, by design, has their own style, and each 'speaks' to a different subset of the congregation. Do I embrace everything that each pastor ascribes to? Do I faithfully fall in line with their teachings without any cognitive effort on my own to discern truth and practical application? Absolutely not. I go to church on Sundays, not cult meetings.

Everyone at my church, leadership included, has an opinion on any given subject, but their opinion is not necessarily mine. There's a reason Bible class at a Black church can end with an argument just as quickly as it can with a prayer. Even with disagreement, our church is very active in the community, and agressive in its committment to the upliftment and empowerment of the Black family. We provide our own scholarships, conduct our own fundraisers and take care of our community in various ways, including environmental activism, and foreign missionary boards. I can understand why the Obama's remain at their church, and don't see a problem. I know others will, but hopefully more won't, or at the least, attempt an understanding.

I genuinely feel that for those who were not going to vote for Senator Obama, this issue serves as justification, and for those who were unsure, this may also serve as a final push toward the other side. For those, like me, who truly feel that Senator Obama will serve this country well as president, then this is just another drop in the cesspool of political attacks that I sincerely hope he survives. Hopefully, a large enough population of the electorate will not let their fears and prejudices rule the day as they have most recently, much to the detriment of the country. (see George W. Bush)

I take Senator Obama at his word that he and Rev. Wright do not share identical views on all things. His time serving in the state and US senate fall into his time at the church and its obvious from his votes that he does not lean toward radical action/thought when handling the people's business. Isn't that what really matters?

Re: Trinity UCC’s Palm Sunday Statement

Anonymous — Mon, 17 Mar 2008 17:55:00 -0000

babyming wrote "But let's face it: any guy who sounds like Rev. Wright (or Mike Huckabee, or Jerry Falwell, etc. etc.) is NOT A HEALER. He's a "divider" like George W. Bush."

Babyming, I understand your frustration and fear. None of us can predict the fallout, if any. However, in your post you make your own key point that counters your angst.

Are any of the people you named in the quote above currently running for president or in the running for president? Are any of the people in that list named Barack Obama? Have you ever heard Senator Obama say anything like the people you named in your list or anything that would make you question his sincere approach to unity, patriotism, or love for all Americans? If you can honestly answer yes to even ONE of these questions, then you may have cause to worry yourself sick but if not maybe you can rest easy knowing that you are on the right side with the best team. It's difficult but tomorrow is another day and we fight on!

OOO

Re: Trinity UCC’s Palm Sunday Statement

babyming — Mon, 17 Mar 2008 17:35:00 -0000

Sorry to belabor this whole thing about Rev. Wright. I honestly feel this could hurt Obama very badly in the eyes of the general public.

I ordered a copy of Medical Apartheid from amazon.com, and I look forward to reading it. I'm sure we've all experienced prejudice, and of course it's always a terrible thing.

But let's face it: any guy who sounds like Rev. Wright (or Mike Huckabee, or Jerry Falwell, etc. etc.) is NOT A HEALER. He's a "divider" like George W. Bush.

Many of you may disagree with me, and I admit I haven't experienced the exact kind of prejudice that many of you have. But I really believe it's a mistake to think that Obama can "move past" the Rev. Wright soundbytes. Rightly or wrongly, I'm afraid this is a very big deal, and I hope Obama gets very proactive about this and says OVER AND OVER AGAIN that he is a uniter, not a divider.

Re: Trinity UCC’s Palm Sunday Statement

Against Race Politics — Mon, 17 Mar 2008 17:10:00 -0000

nmp,

I love Roland! Although, I don't believe I caught these 2 shows, he normally tells it like it is- at least as far as he can go. We can do our part in making sure they are invited back. I DID! I called CNN @ 212-275-7800. You are correct, they are not asked back UNLESS we ask for them. That will make it easier to voice their views. If we are not behind them, you can bet they will NOT be asked back!

Re: Trinity UCC’s Palm Sunday Statement

NMP — Mon, 17 Mar 2008 16:30:00 -0000

Ronnie B,

I caught Michelle Norris and Roland Martin on Meet the Press and CNN respectively over the weekend, and it's clear that Negroes are more concerned about their day gigs and being invited back.

It took White Republican to call out the double standard bull shit of all of this: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/frank-schaeffer/o...>

Re: Trinity UCC’s Palm Sunday Statement

TruthSeeker — Mon, 17 Mar 2008 16:23:00 -0000

Slick Willy is on CNN trying to scam the voters again. The Clinton scammers used Ferraro to take the heat off them and pretend the race baiting was only out of control surrogates. Then, he says the race card was played against their team. He says SC race baiting was a myth. These people are UNBELIEVABLE!

Re: Trinity UCC’s Palm Sunday Statement

TruthSeeker — Mon, 17 Mar 2008 16:09:00 -0000

@ nquest

Here, we are speaking informally; therefore, we use whatever name we want. If I was making a public speech from a position of authority, I would observe protocol.

Re: Trinity UCC’s Palm Sunday Statement

Michelle — Mon, 17 Mar 2008 15:33:00 -0000

From the Washington Post:

Obama Plans Speech on Race

http://blog.washingtonpost.com/the-trail/2008/03/17/obama_plans_speech_on_race.html

FYI I just saw this. Don't know how to feel about it. Because part of me hopes -- despite trying to be cynical, knowing how deep rooted racism/white supremacy is in the dynamics of this country -- still part of me hopes this will be able to help move and ground the public discussion in truth and sanity about what is really going on.

I kind of hate that I can't just sigh and go with cynical 100%. But I have difficulty doing that when it comes to Senator Obama. I am not entirely convinced this is a good thing but can't seem to shake it.

Re: Trinity UCC’s Palm Sunday Statement

Ronnie B — Mon, 17 Mar 2008 15:32:00 -0000

I'd like to see Senator Obama speak nationally to put this issue to rest. Then discuss the economy and education.

In the meantime, please people; get e-mails out to Eugene Robinson of the Wash Post, Michelle Norris of NPR and Roland Martin of CNN to not only denounce the parties responsible for flaming this issue, but the media who continue to poor gasoline on it.

Re: Trinity UCC’s Palm Sunday Statement

The Bag of Health and Politics — Mon, 17 Mar 2008 15:28:00 -0000

I was in PA Saturday

People give a rats ass about this. They're worried about the economy. It's not an issue. I'm even conflicted about whether Obama should give a major speech on this. I think it may be stupid, as it just prolongs the media shit fest.

The media still hasn't run this video of McCain's spiritual guide.

This was going to happen. The media is full of a bunch of rich people who laugh at the gridiron dinner. They are clueless as to the struggles of the real American. People are worried about the economy, depressed that they can't take a vacation because of gas prices, upset that they're having to skip meals because of food inflation, and worried that their job is going overseas. Further, they're heart broken by seeing the kid they coached in Little League come back from Iraq without any legs.

Overall, the media is totally out of touch. This issue is completely overblown. I'm in the heart of the Four State region, which includes South Central PA, and I've seen absolutely no evidence of the Wright thing being an issue. Obama has low support here, but for other reasons mainly he's "just another socialist Democrat."

Re: Trinity UCC’s Palm Sunday Statement

Anonymous — Mon, 17 Mar 2008 15:10:00 -0000

@ anonymous Mon Mar 17, 12:05:00 PM

Don't you get tired of playing Sybil around here...

OOO

Re: Trinity UCC’s Palm Sunday Statement

Anonymous — Mon, 17 Mar 2008 15:06:00 -0000

anonymous Mar 17, 11:48:00 AM wrote "There seem to be many contradictory statements and theories about Wright and Obama. Did he or did he not know the pastor was controversial? When did he know it? Does he really believe it? Is he just pretending to distance himself? Is he trying to have it both ways?"

Now isn't this rich... You have posted misinformation, aspersions and innuendo all morning and now you stop to ask questions. That says everything about you and your posts.

OOO

Re: Trinity UCC’s Palm Sunday Statement

Anonymous — Mon, 17 Mar 2008 15:05:00 -0000

Since 2004, we've been told about Barack Obama, the healer. Barack Obama, the uniter, the post-partisan, post-racial, "leader of the 21st century," who will take a country of red states and blue states and turn them into red white and blue states. After all, he said, they worship an "awesome God" in those blue states...

And now we see that Obama's church declares, "God d*** America." That the 9/11 attacks were chickens coming home to roost. That the U.S. government created the AIDS virus. The award to Farrakhan, the trip to Libya to meet Khadafi...

And many Americans (and more than a few Democrats) are now asking, "who is this guy?" Why are we learning that there's another side to the candidate that completely contradicts the healing, uniting image?

Re: Trinity UCC’s Palm Sunday Statement

Nquest — Mon, 17 Mar 2008 14:52:00 -0000

@ Truthseeker

When you want to comment on something I've said, make sure your comments are in the proper context.

My comments were a response to the Anon post from 05:33, the person who used the term ABHORRENT. Yappin' about "ill-advised" and "unfortunate" is OUT OF CONTEXT.

People have said that Obama's whole campaign (his "lack of experience") is "ill-advised" so spare me the vague and nebulous ideas. When you say stuff like this:

It was ill-advised to use their first names rather than addressing them as Senator Clinton or Senator Barack.

It's clear you have no conversation for me and, as such, should have no audience with me. Of course you say X, Y and Z are "ill-advised" but don't advise why. Hell, people have said Obama's whole campaign is "ill-advised" given his time in Washington, etc.

So, you've got the wrong person to throw out catch-phrases and claims that you don't support, desperately reaching (and not making sense) in the process.

I mean, after all that talk about "using their first name" that's exactly what you turned around and did. I also reject superficial reasoning out-of-hand, as well.

FYI...

Now when you want to argue whether Rev. Wright's statements were "abhorrent" or "hostile to White Americans" or "bigoted" then and only then should you post:

@ nquest

... as far as that particular subject matter is concerned.

Re: Trinity UCC’s Palm Sunday Statement

Anonymous — Mon, 17 Mar 2008 14:48:00 -0000

There seem to be many contradictory statements and theories about Wright and Obama. Did he or did he not know the pastor was controversial? When did he know it? Does he really believe it? Is he just pretending to distance himself? Is he trying to have it both ways?

Obama is planning a speech tomorrow, perhaps he can put his issue in a larger context.

Re: Trinity UCC’s Palm Sunday Statement

Nquest — Mon, 17 Mar 2008 14:33:00 -0000

@ Truthseeker

FYI, I pretty much dismiss rhetorical questions out-of-hand. It should be rather clear that I objected to the idea of viewing the gov't and White people as one in the same so your question-rationale does not compute.

As such, my answer to your question is: no I do not think "the preaching of HIV as Govt. plot against AA's encourages the view that Govt. is synonymous with white."

State your position how you think it does and be done with it and don't try to use my statements as a backhanded way to lecture about some idea of yours that has nothing to do with anything I said.

You also posted this in response to the wrong person:

Government is the representative of the people and is not synonymous with any ethnic group to the exclusion of any other.

It really makes no sense including that in a response you direct to me when I'm the one who insisted on making that point.

But go ahead and explain why that "group bond" and "group control" bs was posted in your response to me.

Re: Trinity UCC’s Palm Sunday Statement

Anonymous — Mon, 17 Mar 2008 14:30:00 -0000

"then Sean Hannity and the rest of the right wing talking heads wouldn't have spent several weeks preparing it to be one."

You are correct there, ronnieb and they will keep it going for as long as possible with week long series on Fox News, editorials, comments, talk radio but with that comes a certain level of desensitizing. No one can predict what the final fallout will be but we can still hope;)

You know that they launched Obama Watch on Fox this weekend, right? They plan to milk this cow till the utters wear off.

OOO

Re: Trinity UCC’s Palm Sunday Statement

D. — Mon, 17 Mar 2008 14:20:00 -0000

Ronnie,
I know. Damn right wingers. ;)

I guess my thing is that people who can see through the BS are probably smart enough to let it die.

Re: Trinity UCC’s Palm Sunday Statement

Ronnie B — Mon, 17 Mar 2008 14:18:00 -0000

My two cents worth:

1. After reading this and Obama's post online, this is a dead issue as far as I'm concerned.

2. If you really want to make it a dead issue for the rest of the election season....stop talking about it. Let it die. The longer you discuss it, the more you open it up to opposing viewpoints.

Not that I don't disagree with you, D ...

but if this were such a non-issue, then Sean Hannity and the rest of the right wing talking heads wouldn't have spent several weeks preparing it to be one.

Re: Trinity UCC’s Palm Sunday Statement

D. — Mon, 17 Mar 2008 14:12:00 -0000

Anon 10:56:00,

You know, I kinda brought into that before; that it was a bad judgement call on Obama's part. That it said something about his character.

And then my mom reminded me over the weekend that this same Rev. Wright had been to my home church when I was growing up. I had to honestly ask: if I was running for office, would I want someone using Rev. Wright's words to question my beliefs on my country?

Yes, there's probably still some vetting of Obama to be done. I think (and I'm sure I'll be corrected if wrong!) that even his most ardent supporters may agree with that.

As far as this issue goes, Obama has said that he rejects the statements, and that they don't mesh with the platform he's running on. Fair enough; I'll accept that. If he is playing a game, then that makes him no different than any other politician-and I don't mean that as a negative.

Re: Trinity UCC’s Palm Sunday Statement

Anonymous — Mon, 17 Mar 2008 14:11:00 -0000

"Squarepeg", you have issues. You have your one vote, why not exercise it to vote for Clinton or McCain, instead of repeatedly posting the same innuendo and aspersions. You want to convince these people that Senator Obama doesn't know that he is black? Exercise you brain because I don't think MOST Blacks are dumb enough to believe it and neither blacks nor whites will ever let him forget his color. You seem stuck on driving a wedge between him and the black community with baseless garbage such as your following quote (which is a poorly worded redo of your other post above):

"Rev. Wright is a man Obama chose to be associated with when it was advantageous to him and he exploited it. But when he decided to run for president, he tried to distance himself from Wright."

Then you provide this evidence of illiteracy because it was Dr. Wright who initiated that discussion and warned Senator Obama that he may have to, not the other way around (which would actually reinforce Senator Obama's point that he wasn't aware of the specific statements the media is exploiting but he knew his preacher was firey):

"Obama knew he would be a problem for him and that he may someday distance himself from Wright? "

Do you think you could at least feign intellectual integrity sometimes just for fun, maybe?

OOO