-
Website
http://www.jackandjillpolitics.com/ -
Original page
http://www.jackandjillpolitics.com/2008/03/trying-to-attack-obama-through-his-church/ -
Subscribe
All Comments -
Community
-
-
Top Commenters
-
Popular Threads
I want to say Larry Elder, but he has enough to take blame for without hanging that on him, too.
But still.
Obama needs to address this ASAP. If Mr. Wright has a spot on Obama's team, I don't see how Obama gets out of this without making him step down.
I know it's a political ploy. But when you've got a person saying "God D*mn America" you know that's gonna hang around Obama's neck like an anvil. That's the PERFECT soundbite for the GOP (and even Hillary supporters).
The negative far outweighs the positive here. It's not a matter of fairness. It's a matter of practicality. He doesn't have to throw him under the bus. He doesn't have to publically scold Wright or make an example of him. I'm not talking about that.
He doesn't (nor should he) have to make a big deal of it. But he's gotta put this behind him before it gets too big.
That doesn't mean that he has to denounce his church or faith (nor should he). As I said in the last post, I think he should open the doors to the church and use education and openess to fight the ignorance of the Fox News crowd.
But he can't be associated with "God D*mn America" and the like. I'm not saying it would be fatal to his campaign. But it would likely create a huge headache that he doesn't need at this time.
Obama has already released a statement. All he needs is for Mr. Wright to respectfully step down from whatever symbolic post he has. Don't feed the fire.
Oh yeah--it was a wink wink with them! These are white preachers speaking hate.(It's ok) And as long as John McCain doesn't share their views!;)
This time, it's not about race, or attacking a black institution. Its about support for your country...which, based on their support of Mr. Wright and some of Michelle's comments, the Obamas clearly don't.
I haven't seen John McCain denounce & reject Rod Parsley or John Hagee! Infact, John McCain simply said he doesn't share their views! End of story!
What makes you think they don't support America. Dr. Wright is expressing a very real side of America.
And, accusing Black folk of being unpatriotic is one of the oldest tricks in the book. Been there, done that.
Because Dr. Wright doesn't wrap himself in the flag and go around blindly supporting this country, that makes him unpatriotic?
What Black person hasn't heard that before.
I've said it before, and I'll say it again:
Black folks are the truest Americans. We're the only ones who have consistently fought FOR America. I don't mean by suiting up and getting into uniform, though Blacks have fought in every conflict beginning with the American Revolution. I mean, we have been the ones fighting to get this country to live up to its creed. To live up to what it pretends that it is, but more than often is NOT. And, for that, we, as a community, routinely have our patriotism questioned.
I'll say it again: Rev. Wright is an 'agitator' in the best of that tradition, and like so many before him, is villified for it.
D%mn, you say it so well!
But, fair enough. Someone show me what side of America Mr. Wright has expressed in his comments that are now under question. What part of our country-a nation founded under God-believes that same God has thrown is under the bus?
Yeah, anyone who subscribes to this type of thought-black, white, what have you-deserves to have their patriotism-hell, their sanity-questioned. How can anyone who calls himself an American and is proud of that fact NOT repudiate this type of thought in the strongest way possible? Hell, how can anyone DEFEND this statement?
It seems apparent to me that Wright's comments have had an influence on Michelle Obama. It is easy to make sense of her comments now that I see where her pastor is coming from.
Here is an accomplished, attractive, educated, successful woman who is achieving the American dream. Yet her view of this country is cynical and bleak.
Truth is---people like you are looking for just about anything to use against Barack Obama to stop a black man from getting elected president!
Barack Obama is the best candidate that can bring this nation together to work toward a common good! Too bad your twisted views are clouding your mind from reasonable judgement.
This is coming for a middle class white man, but his comments were pretty tame. I didn't hear anything that would cause Obama or any member to repudiate any quotes. Just because you are a member of the church doesn't mean you agree 100% of everything that is said.
Also, I love the phrase "prosperity gospel hustler" I am so going to use that. Take it from me a graduate of ORU (Oral Roberst University) that is the most true statement.
I would be more afraid if Hagee or Parsley was an adviser than of Wright. Those guys and their polices towards Israel truly believe they can help bring about the "end times", and unfortunately with nuclear nations in that region it might just happen, but not in ways they think.
Barack Obama is the best candidate that can bring this nation together to work toward a common good!
I agree.
But this pastor, his spiritual advisor, and campaign consultant, is undermining that very theme. His pastor preaches black sepratism, insults a country that allows him to speak freely, while he drives a porsche and cries about all us whites are keeping blacks down!
It is interesting that Obama can be a member of his church community and not have to identify with his pastor's hateful words, and yet a poster at JJP must apologize for every concern raised, lest they be accused of wanting to bring Obama down!
As long as the media gets to portray the church as some amorphous mob of black militants, Obama will continue to get dogged by the questions.
You open the doors of the church. And you do the very thing that best undercuts those fears of the unknown: You give it a face. You give it a name. You give it a culture; life and context. You take away the mystery. Why? Because ignorance feeds off of that mystery.
I guarantee that would be one of the highest rated shows of the year. I'd even go one step further. I'd consider setting up a brief discussion with about 10 church members. Let Hannity ask his questions face to face.
Don't engage in a tit-for-tat with McCain's connections or Hillary's. It's been rightly noted that Obama doesn't get to play by the same set of rules. Don't shy away from the issue or try to stay above the frey on this one. This is one of those issues that people use to define a candidate if not answered properly (fairly or not). Meet it head on. Discuss the elephant in the room.
Step in the lion's den. This would demonstrate an openess that's rarely seen in modern politics. It would show a sense of confidence and moral conviction. Whether they agree or disagree, people, particularly conservatives, at least respect a person who is willing to stand by their convictions.
He's gonna have to do it sooner or later. And he should do it by inviting his main critic, Fox News/Sean Hannity. Obama could even bring his own camera crew as insurance (just in case Sean tried to distort what happened).
No actually, it makes you aware but not hateful. My cousins are all Nation of Islam and they say far,far,far more confrontational things but I'm able to treat everyone with respect because I dont look at it as the person, I look at it as the society that I want to work help change.
People in the media are really hurting Obama. They are not explaining what the church is about or what they try and foster and do...they show the negative with any other point of view esp. Fox News. Who claims that the church's focus is to destroy American values. The sad part is that my family is falling for it. Obama’s tries to pooh-pooh that, the worse it gets. Most who could sit through those diatribes and venom each week might find it difficult to have a balanced view of so-called “white” people or the country at large.
My mother calls telling me that
she is now skeptical of Obama and says that he cannot win and she probably wont bother to support him. Wow so I'm trying to explain it to her and she claims that I'm just making excuses for Obama cause I think he's so great and he is obviously not. Wow. If my mother who can usually see through these things are acting like that then imagine what some other people who dont understand or know the situation are thinking. I had brought this up with her a while ago and we discussed it but now that the news media is inciting its a big deal. I wish that they could cover this fairly and actually get people who know about the church to speak. This is not coming at a good time.
D,
What race are you?
I agree. Make it a focus group of 25, and even let him pick the members randomly.
It will blow their minds.
Exactly. Showing YouTube Videos and reading what you want of the church's website is not going to make you understand the church. The media is not covering the story probably and I agree 100% with what they said. I fell like doing it myself. I feel like fly to Chicago and doing it myself. If the media's doesnt want to do it, I will.
P.S. why isnt anyone talking about the people endorsing McCain. There's an obvious double standard.
It will blow their minds.
______________________________________
And maybe yours too.
______________________________________
The members of Trinity are not unlike the professional African-Americans in your office. The same middle-class, upper middle-class folks that you work with......do you really believe that THOSE folks leave the office and turn into the second coming of Angela Davis and Huey P. Newton on Sunday morning?
____________________________________
They are Michelle Obama.
Michelle doesn't scare me. In the least.
"But this pastor, his spiritual advisor, and campaign consultant, is undermining that very theme. His pastor preaches black sepratism, insults a country that allows him to speak freely, while he drives a porsche and cries about all us whites are keeping blacks down"!
-----------------------------------
It is not Barack's views! Barack is not responsible for what comes out of his pastor's mouth!
I don't agree with everything my pastor says & I continue to go to Church there. Doesn't mean I'm joined at the hip in everything he believes either!
I had a priest who gave a sermon that I found offensive, and guess what...I chose to attend another church.
It's a choice.
Do you know Rev. Wright?? He is actually very respected and I believe that either Ebony or Essence ranked him as one of the top black ministers in America.
Supposedly he is. See the link from Politico: http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/0308/Wri..., I totally agree with you that belonging to the same religious community as someone who's controversial shouldn't constitute as "accepting support." And Obama has made that argument when he spoke to a Jewish organization recently. He said his pastor was like that uncle who says inappropriate things sometimes.
But the question becomes: does Obama want to fight this fight along with the inexperienced, not vetted, cult leader, liberal, Muslim, black candidate, DC outsider fights he’s waging on the Clinton and Repug front. If it’s worth it to Obama, then I support him. But it’s just another thing painting him as the “black, un-American" candidate and that makes white folks nervous.
My best friend, who is white, had the following thing said to him by his boss’ mother: “I’m not a racist. [I love when people preface their comments with this statement because you know the next thing out of their mouths is going to be highly racist]. She continues, “but I’m afraid that if Obama becomes President of the United States, the crime rate will skyrocket up in American.”
WTF has crime got to do with a black president? Nothing! But this is the kind of sh*t Obama has to deal with.
When we’ve got “wrongheaded” thinking like this woman's going on, does Obama really need his pastor’s speeches being looped continually on ever news outlet show (Jon Stewart showed that clip, and you know you’re in trouble when you’re on the “Daily Show”)?
Rev. Wright is right, but Rev’s got to go.
Yes it is your choice to leave BUT there is also a choice to stay too!
I'm sure if everyone decided to leave their church because of something offensive their pastors said----pews would be empty!
In the portion I heard he was just telling the uncensored truth. You know the truth that people speak about the government when they talk about taxes or war or things that are of signifigance to them.
His experiences are different so quite naturally he would speak on those.
Granted, some of it would not be accepted well in mixed company, but that doesn't make it hate based. This is just another tool to minimize Senator Obama.
Besides, Rev. Wright is of the age that people get tired and just say what they really feel.
Obama could reject him, but I have a feeling that wouldn't stop people from calling attention to the fact that he is/was his pastor.
That's a threat.
I haven't seen John McCain denounce & reject Rod Parsley or John Hagee! Infact, John McCain simply said he doesn't share their views! End of story!
there's hypocrisy all around, yes. where is it really coming from?
And Obama needs that mixed company.
I can't think of any way out of this one, except to get out there and Pound the Positives.... trumpet each and every positive the church has had on the community....
and get the white members of the congregation talking up the Church and the minister in a very public way.
I'm black.
Nita,
There's no double standard here. Yes, Hagee and others who support McCain have made their share of inflammatory statements. Difference here is that they haven't made them about their OWN COUNTRY (again, at least not in anything I've seen).
You could make a argument based in scripture on some of the things Hagee's said (I wouldn't buy it, but the case could be made). But in the bible I read, nowhere does it say that God has damned ANY country.
Hell, our constant prayer-at least for those of us who believe in our country-is "God bless America." Even with all our faults and wrongs, we're still seeking His guidance.
Sorry for the poor attempt at a sermon.
As far as Pastor Wright is concerned, it appears that no one (especially Faux News) is aware that Wright has retired and is no longer the senior pastor at Trinity. The new pastor is Otis Moss III--perhaps these networks don't have sufficient fact checkers? I've been to Trinity several times; Wright has said many things I disagree with (he once called Condoleeza Rice "Condiskeeza Rice," which is just plain foul), but to brand Trinity as some radical Christian sect that is out to Destroy All Humans (Especially if They're White) is so much hyperbole, it's ridiculous. Furtherfrakkinmore, Wright's not even on Obama's campaign team! They so-called media is digging back through Wright's old sermons for nonsense--how about they find his book of sermons where he proclaims "Good News For Homosexuals" (he affirms gays and lesbians) or how about they highlight how his church DOESN'T stigmatize single mothers?
As far as the notion that the church needs to "open its doors"--the doors of Trinity are ALWAYS open. They're open to people of all races--of course, because the majority of the members are African American, Faux News, Crappy News Network and other corporate shills are going to paint the church as some radical sect (I guess then that every AME church is also radical--but then again, that's been the assumption about "black churches" for decades, no?).
that you are American...white have said all kinds of things but they are never subjected to that kind of scrutiny.
D., have you ever wondered why another black person may be just a little disappointed with the U.S.?
No, the cycles of them playing this doesnt help because they are not providing the viewers with an explanation, the other side...bringing on Dick Morris to explain the church is just ridiculous but yep I passed by Fox Noise and thats what they were doing. Its not Clinton, whoever said that (though she loves it) its people like Sean Hannity!!
Sean Hannity was also trying to make Rev Calvin Butts who endorsed Hillary look like a "racist". Don't forget Al Sharpton. These conservative, right wing people see anything black threatening.
This time, it's not about race, or attacking a black institution. Its about support for your country...which, based on their support of Mr. Wright and some of Michelle's comments, the Obamas clearly don't.
d~
Pull your face out of Sean Hannity's lap long enough to ask yourself if anything that Barack Obama has ever said or done, is consistent with or sympathetic to the (rather foul) things that that preacher has said.
You can't and you know damn well you can't.
"Pull your face out of Sean Hannity's lap long enough to ask yourself if anything that Barack Obama has ever said or done, is consistent with or sympathetic to the (rather foul) things that that preacher has said.
-----------------------------------
Oh Ronnie, you're much too kind! It's really "pull your face out of Sean Hannity's @ss"! There. I said it!
d, knows from the beginning that Barack doesn't engage in anything divisive. It's been his stand from the get-go! Barack is about unity and bringing people together! That BS, d is spewing ain't gonna work!
But there is a great deal of evidence out there that he is anything but. The Reverend Wright is exhibit A. Mrs. Obama is Exhibit B. But there's lots more. Here is a piece by John Batchelor about some of Obama's other connections. For example:
William Ayers is the second Chicago figure to consider in the political profile of Mr. Obama. William C. Ayers, known as Bill Ayers, is notorious as a terrorist bomber from the 1970s who, on September 11, 2001, in the New York Times was quoted as finding "a certain eloquence in bombs." Now, at 62, Mr. Ayers, a former aide to the current Mayor Richard M. Daley, is an established professor of education at the University of Illinois in Chicago. Importantly, Mr. Ayers and his wife, the equally notorious Weatherman terrorist Bernardine Dohrn, hosted a crucial meet-the-candidate event in their Hyde Park neighborhood home in 1995 when Mr. Obama, also a Hyde Park resident, was sounded out by vital citizens, among them the retiring state senator Alice Palmer for the 13th District.
Obama's book is strewn with hints of his far left sympathies, as when he tells an African cousin who complains about the hardships of life in Kenya that things are no better in America. Or when he suggests that the lives of poor black young men in the inner city are blighted by white racism. He never says it explicitly, but it's there.
He has been very friendly with Rashid Khaladi, the fierce anti-Israel professor who took Edward Said's post at Columbia.
My own theory, FWIW, is that Obama acquired his far left views at least in part to make himself as authentically black as he could to compensate for having a white mother. His mother, of course, was very left herself. But looking the way he does, and having been raised among only white people (mother and maternal grandparents) he felt the need to better identify with his black heritage. That struggle is what the book is all about.
One can have sympathy for his psychological predicament . But that sympathy certainly does not extend to electing him president of a country that I sincerely believe he does not love.
Here is my theory on your theory---FWIW
Absurd! Totally Ludicrous!
Anyway, if Barack is somehow be "aligned with" this pastor, does that mean that there are other (white) elected officials who are "aligned with" child-molesting Catholic priests?
You guys can continue to reference Ron Paul all you want but he is/was NOT a front runner in his party.
We know Obama is held to a higher standard anyway. That is something we have always had to deal with it and right now is not a good time to make a stand on something this controversial!
I know that nearly everyone commenting here ALREADY supports Obama and it is easy to dismiss opposing viewpoints with dismissive profanity, "I know you are but what am I" playground comebacks, but some of the concerns raised in this thread and others give a preview of the case to be made against Obama. And McCain, to be sure, will do it in a way that show Obama to be a very, far, left liberal.
But, one can't judge a book by it's cover. So, open up this book, and try to glean some understanding of the man by examining those close to him in concert with his own statements, philosphy and actions...and what do you get?
It is not all that difficult to raise questions about Obama's foreign policy...will he really be able to protect and defend this country from the threats we face in light of his past, some would call, 'radical' associations, coupled with his willingness to meet one-on-one without precondition with the likes of Ahmajhinadad and Chavez?
You may call it ridiculous, tell me to kiss my a**, but that is not a persuasive argument.
Is it fear-mongering? I don't think so.
People want a President who will keep them safe, free to live their lives as they choose, some want the government to help, others just want them to stay out of their way,some are in between, but they want to live free from fear.
People also want a president who shares their values. 'Values' can mean many things to many people, but I would argue, that a value all Americans can share is 'Love of Country.' That does not mean that one should overlook the problems we face here, nor does it mean that one cannot criticize a policy or an administration, but when all is said and done, a president should be able to proudly assert that we live in the greatest nation on Earth, ruled by the greatest Constitution, with more freedom and prosperity than any nation in recorded history.
How Obama will assure and persuade those voters have yet to decide, and dare I say it, 'like the idea of a black man for president,' he and his supporters must convince them that he is the right man.
Framing the choice between a 'liberal, progressive, maybe even radical Democrat, vs. a 'moderate, traditional, not-too right-wing, Republican is how this will be presented by the opposition.
Conventional wisdom tells us that elections and fought and won in the center of the political battlefield. McCain is in the center. How will Obama get there?
d, good to have you back.
Obama is damned if he "renounces and denounces" Rev. Wright and damned if he doesn't. It's called gotcha politics.
I knew when I heard Elizabeth Haselback bring this up on The View and ask if "white people could attend the church" and citing a report she'd heard on Fox News there was going to be some mess.
Talking head head after talking head been on TV 24/7distorting and taking Rev. Wrights comments out of context. There is a poll on AOL that ask if Rev. Wrights comments are bigoted. Why not have Rev. Wright on TV to explain his views?
To quote a friend of mine:
"Those that tell the truth can't win and those that don't tell the truth win."
Guess what? You can ignore me if you like. I won't be mad at you. But I do call BS like I see it! No harm no foul--It's the way I am!
Capeesh!
http://mediamatters.org/items/200803110011
Will you please ask your peckerwood homies over at Dixieland Anonymous to make up their minds. Is Barack a radical, militant Black Muslim or is he a radical, militant Black Christian.
I am not trying to insult the celebral capacity of Americans however I find that too many take what they see on TV and think its fact. They accept whatever the pundits say with checking their facts. Some are probably or probably have changed their minds about Obama because of what Sean Hannity, Bill O'Reiley and Rush Limbaugh has to say about Obama's church. How unfortunate and Hasselbeck and my mother are obviously that influenced...unfortunate because prejudice is often a result of this type of ignorance.
And this is all trumped up by the Hillary campaign. In a general election, the media would be able to easily defend Obama against this type of extremist smear coming from the Republicans.
But again, Hillary shows herself to be at least as bad as extreme Republicans, and in some cases, worse.
the difference between the hideous rod parsley and that fucking lunatic hagee is that mccain didn't sit in church with those fools for 15-20 years.
the difference, too, is that they rant and rave on gays, a prejudice deeply shared by many on the right and the left, and one which is still socially acceptable in most circles.
this clown ranting God damn America is going to kill this campaign. i am so fucking heartbroken i can hardly stand it.
and with regard to the pastor from chicago, who i am sure has done an incredible amount of good, i am white and i have attended mt. zion baptist church off and on for years. i was married by the african american pastor of that church and he has been a spiritual guide for me forever.
i have never, not once, ever ever ever heard anything from him like the shit that flows from the mouth of this guy who has destroyed the obama campaign.
i just give up. there is no hope for my country. the only solution is to get out.
By the looks of it. A lot of people are willing to put Wright in the "crazy old preacher" category along with the likes of Pat Robertson and the rest. I've heard some suggest that they'd like a clearer explaination from Obama. However, I'm surprised to say that most people have not been willing to condemn Obama via guilt by association.
Checked out MSNBC and CNN - it's no more than one of a string of stories being discussed. Quite frankly, the proposed do-overs in MI and FL are still getting more attention at the moment.
Of course, Fox News has Wright as their lead story. But that's expected.
Listened to some (liberal) talk radio this morning and a lot of the callers (black AND white) said it wasn't a big deal. Some white folk even empathized with Wright's perspective (re: race relations, etc.) - I was shocked, but they said it.
I think we really might be making more of this than it is. Dick Morris even said this story wouldn't have wings. McCain's campaign doesn't seem to want to touch it. Hillary's been silent so far.
Outside of the usual suspects (conservative white guys like Bill O'Reilly, Joe Scarborough and Hannity) this story doesn't seem to have the buzz needed to make it past the weekend.
It hurts him among the flag waving crowd. But those people weren't voting for him anyways. As for fence sitters . . . those voters have been breaking for Hillary lately anyways (my thesis: late deciders are not "change" voters, they go with the safer pick).
I could be wrong. But it looks like Obama's positive vibes and good reputation MIGHT just be strong enough to help him avoid a PR nightmare.
I think it comes down to this: At the end of the day a lot of people look at Obama and just don't see an angry black man.
Overall, the media's giving it the same amount of scrutiny that they gave Michelle Obama's comment about a month ago.
This is not a campaign killer.
This is the new Pastor of Obama's church. He doesn't preach fire and brimstone and is pretty quiet.
So, anyone having a problem with this would have to first still need to connect Obama to Wright even after Wright himself says Obama doesn't agree with him on everything and would need to distance himself from Wright. Then keep insisting that this guy is still the pastor of the church, as it is obvious that the new pastor is moving in a different direction.
(I don't so much disagree with the Wright, but I realize that white people certainly don't want to hear how a historically racist past has lead to contemporary racism and yes they are still participating and benefiting from it. Just as some black Americans don't want to hear that they are becoming the oppressor as they move into "middle class-ness", which is also what Wright preached against. I'm assuming that the sizable white audience at the church might be a little more anti-racist than the average white American and the black community there is a bit more understanding of class than your average black mega-churches which prosperity preach. I'm looking at you T.D. Jakes.)
Not by a long shot.
After Keith Olbermann's mesmerizing verbal beat-down of Hillary Clinton, I think there will be more in the media who are willing to unshackle themselves from the Clinton influence.
And those predisposed to believing whatever a white media person says about a Black person, might find themselves seeing the Clintons for what they're worth.
NMP,
I agree. I am hearing very little defense of the man. It was the week before last on Open Line when I heard someone who has been friends with Obama for a long time and a member of the church discussing this issue. He said that what hurts him and Rev. Wright (who has a no interview from the media policy)is that the media is distorting his character and nobody is coming to his defense. Rev. Wright had said that Obama would have to distance himself away from him when running for president, he said it. When I heard all that venom last year when he disinvited his pastor, I took it as hot air cause truthfully, black people dont trust one another and they were looking for anything to call out Obama as an Uncle Tom. Who remembers the "Is He Black Enough?" discussion that went on for too long. Of course when its time for Obama and Rev.Wright to defend the situation and themselves of course when Obama is starting to look "too black" or "ghettoized", there is little to no defense from the so called unified pro-black community. Its obvious that Wright was not just your local neighborhood pastor. He speaks the truth but it will cause problems for someone in mainstream American society. Obama loves Wright and respects Wright but knew what he had to do. Everybody was all over him and now when its caught fire. It's... Well you know...ummm...well...umm. Lets be serious.
P.S. I am sick of those black prosperity preachers like Crefelo Dollar!!!!!!
I know all to well that he needs the mixed company, I've had to mix since I was a child. I agree with you wholeheartedly. I was not making an argument for or against-just an observation of what I heard-not a position.
I don't know enough about Wright or Trinity to offer an argument or take a position. I was just thinking out loud.
I will say though, I'm tired of not ever being able to as an African American speak openly about what is undeniably true about what occurs in America and not be called out for it.
I know all to well the place Michelle Obama was speaking from.
She should be allowed to speak those feelings. She was in fact complimenting America.
If the people you want in your company will only accompany a version of you that speaks to their truths and their truths only, what have you really achieved? Once in their company, won't you only be able to be what you presented yourself as to bring them along?
Let's discuss that.
I hear what you're saying. This will be an issue that pops up from time to time.
But there is such a thing as overreaching in politics. The only people really beating the drums on this thing are Fox News and conservative pundits. Obama was never gonna get that vote anyways.
Have you seen the Fox News coverage? They're basically trying to paint Obama as some type of closet Huey Newton. That's an overreach. If you're going to attack someone, you gotta make it seem realistic. It's hard to characterize someone when there's no corresponding reputation.
Right now, most of the people I've heard have been able to distinguish between Obama and his pastor. Once again, it's still early. But this story has been fighting for air time with Spitzer and the MI/FL issue.
Obama's good reputation has given him a little more slack than I think we're willing to recognize. Plus, I maintain, I think Obama's tougher than we're willing to give him credit for.
Fox news and the like will try to re-define Obama as some type of black nationalist. That's a hard sell to make - especially in a news media with a short attention span. . . especially after you've spent the past year telling the public he wasn't black enough.
I'm not saying it's impossible. It's just hard.
BUT, would it make sense to invite Sean Hannity? He cannot be trusted. I could see him editing any interview footage of Wright and TUCC to make them look heinous.
I was listening to The Lionel Show on Air America this morning, and he was talking about Wright. Lionel and the callers (most of whom where white) AGREED with Wright's comments and/or found nothing wrong with them. Besides, how many times have we've heard Bill Maher or other whites say the same thing about 9/11 as Wright? And what is wrong with saying that Hillary has never been called a "nigger", or is accepted because of her white, priviledged background? IT'S TRUE!
Now, it's time for Democrats to stand up to these Republicans and say, "Clean up your own backyard!" pointing out their love affair with Farwell, Robertson, Haggee, Parsely...etc.
P.S. I get offended when people start up with Rev. Sharpton and Jesse Jackson, they have done a lot for the black community. I know that many like to live in a bubble but they are speaking the truth and reminding our nation that their is inequalities in pur country and that we must address them in order to live up to our own American doctrine...ok.
What will make some of you happy? What do you suggest his method to be for throwing this respected black minister under the bus. On Obama's website there are facts on the church. They are there for you to read...go read. If you ever supported the guy then you would have known that.
B.Serious, made a wonderful suggestion and I think that that is the best way to handle it. Obama believes in transparency...there you go. I believe that if people were able to see those who go there, they would not see it as a "threat".
You nailed it! I've seen a number of the 'Obama is a sellout' crew on MSNBC and Fox calling for Senator Obama to explain and denounce Reb. Wright, including Professor Lamont Hill who has previously called the Senator everything short of an Uncle Tom. Fake ass negroes!
That is patently true. However, if the general public were willing to do that, we wouldn't have been lied into a disastrous war in Iraq, Bush wouldn't be able to pass of telecom/Bush crony immunity as being in the interest of security and on and on and on.
Soundbytes make or break a campaign. It happened to Kerry. It happened to Gore. By the time both of those men were at the point of the vote, they'd been trivialized and demonized in the media to the point that folks STILL believe Gore said he singlehandedly invented the internet and folks STILL believe Kerry's medals were bogus and based on lies.
This is one horrendous soundbyte because it is 180 degrees from Obama's beliefs. I'm going to say it's 180 degrees from his beliefs but I am deathly afraid that an enormous number of folks are going to assume that it's 180 from his professed beliefs and that is a distinct and devastating difference.
And here I'll tell you something else, from the white point of view, from the point of view of someone who has fought long and hard for equality for all people for more than 30 years:
When I hear that coming from Wright's mouth I hear it and I understand it and then there's a big piece of me that rises up and says it is hopeless, I, we, my people, cannot ever win, we cannot ever undo**, we cannot make it better, there is no hope.
Fast on the heels of no hope comes fuck it, why try.
**my people not here until 1893. just for the record.
Now, it's time for Democrats to stand up to these Republicans
I have to stop you there, because it's not Republicans who are solitarily behind all this mess.
It's the Clintons as well. I wonder if there is a tag team going down right now. I can't say I know, more like I have a feeling.....
When one's house is not in order, it won't get in order by blaming one's equally slobbish neighbor.
But you're right about Maher and the rest. Thank you. It goes back to what I said earlier, and have always said, about the power of black speech versus the power of white speech.
Unfortunately, now people who have never heard what Wright really said, and ain't gonna give a fuck to hear what he really said, are going to parrot the line that Wright is a racist who hates Jews and that makes Obama a racist anti-Semite, too,..... just like they parrot the bullshit about how Obama was losing when he was actually winning. Or parrot the bullshit about his 'present' votes for Planned Parenthood with Planned Parenthood's permission and endorsement.
Because it serves their purposes not to understand.
I was an Obama supporter and still am, but I just think Americans need to stop being so two-faced.
When he said that Katrina was a punishment from God for homosexuality, he certainly did suggest that God damned at least part of America.
Isn't he already gone (retired)?
McCain is in the center only if you buy into the right-wing reframing of the political scale. Those of us with a long enough memory to know better know he's a rightist.
there to give people an excuse for not votimg for Obama. This makes them feel comfortable not voting for a Black man. This makes them believe "they" are not racist. No matter what Obama says or does on this matter will make a differnce. People
either understand him or they don't!
Also Friday, the United Church of Christ issued a 1,400-word statement defending Wright and his "flagship" congregation. John H. Thomas, United Church of Christ's president, lauded Wright's church for its community service and work to nurture youth. Other church leaders praised Wright for speaking out against homophobia and sexism in the black community.
"It's time for all of us to say no to these attacks and to declare that we will not allow anyone to undermine or destroy the ministries of any of our congregations in order to serve their own narrow political or ideological ends," Thomas said in the statement.
"I'm telling you. The way to take the sting out of all of this is to open the doors of the church.
As long as the media gets to portray the church as some amorphous mob of black militants, Obama will continue to get dogged by the questions.
You open the doors of the church. And you do the very thing that best undercuts those fears of the unknown: You give it a face. You give it a name. You give it a culture; life and context. You take away the mystery. Why? Because ignorance feeds off of that mystery."
<<
This is still the truest answer yet given in this thread, and it is the one that will be the most effective.
Wright and his contemporaries sometimes spoke and speak from a place of pain because that pain is real, and it has been and still is caused by structural impediments to justice. And America -the majority of it- is ready to see reality.
Obama's statement that he strongly condemns Wright's comments - but will not repudiate the man himself and the totality of his life's work - is the honorable path. It is also the path that, as is usual with Obama, takes the risk of actually trusting the American people instead of trying to corral them into believing some particular thing. Let the people see the church, and see the truth. America is ready, to quote the frontrunner.
If they don't get it by now, they simply don't want to get it. They
will more than likely feel that the church service is being STAGED for
America's benefit. I guess the America that I see is not as progressive or intelligent as the America Obama sees. I TRULY hope that I am wrong. I keep telling
myself that it is NOT OVER Yet!
Didn't a Tornado hit the CNN Center tonight in Atlanta?
Yup a Tornado did hit. Hmmm--I'm just saying!
Peace out
Who's the real bigot?
Searpant's rarely look you in the eye (or in this case state their names) before biting you.
Low-keying it? You're kidding, right? And, what did he say that was bigoted?