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Just asking.
On a serious tip ...Mr. McClurkin’s viewpoints will get more than a few ‘Amens’ in the barber and beauty shops.
ESPECIALLY South of the Mason/Dixon.
I’ll remind you of a poll this year of Black South Carolinians:
83% go to church at least twice a month.
So, YOU tell me if you think that Obama’s going to take heat in South Carolina for having McClurkin.
I'm also going to say something that is unpopular; - I hope Obama does NOT pull McClurkin.
It will be seen as but another way that Obama is disrespecting the Black community for others OUTSIDE of the community. That is how it will be seen, and that's not how Obama needs to be seen in the Black community of South Carolina right now.
Black folks are not gay friendly, but doesn't mean that we're hostile either. But, we have made up our minds.
In the usual suspect polling, in the high 60's, Blacks are AGAINST discrimination towards homosexuals and lesbians when it comes to JOBS and HOUSING.
On the other hand, ALSO in the high 60's, Blacks are OPPOSED to Gay Marriage. Period.
And, as a community, we don't see any conflict with those positions. We would not be against someone trying to feed themselves or clothe themselves. But, marriage is seen as a religion-based institution, and Blacks are too conservative, religiously - to believe in Gay Marriage.
Doesn't make us anymore homophobic than the general populace, but Blacks in the South see the gay marriage issue the same way as their White evangelical brethren - you don't have to like it, but it is what it is.
He will not be able to win the general election without White votes. But, he'll never get the nomination without Black Votes.
So, IMO, McClurkin stays unless HE pulls out, but even that, I believe, would not reflect well on Obama.
As for Dr. Hutchinson -he's so in Hillary's corner, puleeze. He's written nothing but Obama hit pieces from day one.
I sympathize with Mr. Boykin and Jazmin Kinnick (sp?), but let's get real, we know how Black folk are, and they have no problem with McClurkin singing on this tour.
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"SHould he have asked Sex Freak and Addict Kirk Franklin instead"?
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Oops!
What about Black LGBT people or do we not exist in your world where "Black folks are not gay friendly?"
Is homosexuality just a "white thing" that a few traitors to the race have acquired?
We are not outside of the community as some may think. I live in neighborhood that is 99.9999% Black and there are other gay people besides me. I am open and honest about my sexual orientation and will not hide it from anyone for any reason.
Donnie McClurkin is not the only gospel star that Obama could have chosen to appear with. I do not know the reasoning behind the decision, but now its growing into a mess that may or may not hurst him S.C. Though any wrinkle or misstep on Obama's part increases the likelihood of Hilary Clinton winning the Democratic nomination.
I challenge you to point out one Democrat running for election in the South or a Democratic presidential candidate that has NOT shared the stage with a Black religious leader that shares McClurklin's views. Since we're speaking amongst ourselves, let's be real. We all know that no less than at lest 75% of the African American community believes that homosexuality is a sin, but most of us live by the credo "hate the sin but love the sinner." Donnie McClurklin has been a mega star for years sharing the stage with many politicians and has appeared on countless television shows, including popular morning programs, Oprah and Girlfriends, and NO Black LGBT groups or white progressives took issue. The only reason that this is a big media story is because Senator Obama's name is attached to it. It certainly has never been an issue when Bill Clinton AND Hillary Clinton have attended countless Black churches with leaders that share McClurkin's views. Bishop Long of Georgia, an outspoken anti gay pastor, hosted Corretta Scott King's funeral which was attended by every noted political figure including Presidents Clinton and Bush, and was not met with any criticism. Why now? As far as losing some gay vote and/or white progressive votes, show me any measurable evidence that either group has ever swung a presidential election or state primary. By contrast, there is no disputing the importance of the Black Chrisitian vote in South Carolina. Hell, if not for the Black Christian vote in 2004, Bush would not have carried Ohio. And that's loosely quoting Bill Clinton who advised John Kerry to come out more forcefully against gay marriage. Black folks kill me with holding Senator Obama to a higher standard than you hold white politicians, namely Bill Clinton. We completely ignore and/or excuse Bill Clinton's political pragmatism in the name of victory. Black folks didn't have a problem with Bill Clinton's 'bubba' strategy, carting out his life-long friend and mentor, William Fulbright, a life-long segregationist, on the campaign trail or bestowing him with the presidential medal of freedom to sure up the 'bubba' vote. But now we want to join white progressives in condemning Senator Obama for sharing the stage--for one night--with Donnie McClurklin when we all know damn well that his views are well withing the mainstream of the Black church and the Black community.
What about Black LGBT people or do we not exist in your world where "Black folks are not gay friendly?"
Is homosexuality just a "white thing" that a few traitors to the race have acquired?
Actually, I believe homosexuality/lesbianism is genetic and am awaiting for it to be discovered through this search of the human genome.
Once that has happened, we all can begin to turn the next page.
Because...if we all our God's Creatures...and it's in the DNA to be a homosexual/lesbian, then it was part of God's plan after all.
I'm just waiting for it to be confirmed - that it's genetic.
I have nothing against my Black lesbian and homosexual Sisters and Brothers, but I know the world in which we live.
I stand by what I said - Black folk have made up their mind about this. They don't see the conflict between their positions on Housing and Jobs, and Gay Marriage. Now, you can debate with them, but they have more important issues to deal with in the community.
I ain't gay myself, but when people encourage bigotry against gays -- there are plenty out here doing it including a shocking number of black religious figures--- and when supposed black leaders passively countenance it, I feel it viscerally.
It's safe to bash gays, to exclude and discriminate against them. Among much of the black church it's the accepted norm. Barack hasn't shown guts anywhere else. If he wound not stand up to Bush or powerful interests, why should we expect him to stand up for the unpopular, for the gay. Why?
Essentially, the Obama campaign is saying to homophobes, "You wanna hang around? You wanna hate, dishonor, stigmatize and deny other folks a place at the table? Well ---- as long as you're only talking about gays --- y'know that's "controversial" --- as long as that's your thing, you can hang, you got a place under the tent."
That's the kind of thing that keeps me out of some tents, including the ones they hold most revivals under. If they can't lead in the direction of respect and love for everybody they sure can't lead me anyplace I need to go.
The born-again experience that Donny McClerkin describes is a change from his sinful spiritual state, allowing his redeemed spirit to guide the desires of his flesh. There are a lot of people who have thereby changed their lifestyle by deciding to follow God.
We have plenty of homosexuals in the Black community who didn’t choose their orientation. They were exposed to homosexuality through abuse, whether by physical sexual abuse or rape in the home or in prisons, or by deprivation of emotional needs in dysfunctional or fatherless homes. There is heterosexual abuse as well
Can Donnie McClerkin struggle with homosexuality? As an act of submission to God’s will and our new spiritual state every Christian struggles against sin in some form.
It is a common need of the white community since our abduction to this country to categorize and marginalize many people. What is GLBT, homosexual, heterosexual, whatever? We have to fit in some category?
What is homophobic in people is the fear of admitting that in the natural unsaved unredeemed sinful state of our birth we could and often did participate and enjoy engaging in any these types of sexual intercourse. The only orientation we have from birth is toward sin. That can be any an all sin. This is why Donnie McClerkin and I have been born again through faith in Jesus Christ. We get a second chance.
Obama made a decision that blew up in his face. Now he's taking some steps to rectify that, but the bigger issue is "I wonder if John Aravosis will get on his high horse on issues pertaining to race, gender, xenophobia and anything else like he laid into Obama on this issue?"
To John's credit, his own readers took him to task and told him he shouldn't engage in the same types of responses and outrage like Republicans against Democrats because then he's no better than them.
Additionally, one of his readers pointed out that Hillary has wife beaters endorsing her and nary a peep from John himself. He manned up and corrected it.
If we really want to get concerned about Obama's candidacy, not to say that the LGBT issue isn't of great importance (because it is), but the bigger picture here is how many of these goofs and gaffes Obama's going to make in his campaign before it limps to certain death?
This is truly painful to watch, and I'm not an Obama supporter in the first place.
And I agree with Rikyrah - if Obama had gone with Kirk Franklin, someone would be sure to bring up that brotha's struggle with porn.
I always wonder what people like that would you say, if one of their own children or grandchildren was gay. Or if a colleague of theirs had his throat cut and was left for dead on a sidewalk for being gay.
I think that Irene Monroe, in this week's Black Commentator, nailed it when she branded the junior senator from Illinois a "vote whore", willing to sacrifice any principle, any constituent group to get a few more votes.
The lesson here seems to be that as long as haters and bigots are presumed numerous among undecided voters, no constituency is safe from being thrown under the Obama bus.
and if Obama cancels this event with Donnie he would have even bigger problems...he needs to do something/anything to get some more black supposrt esp. in South Carolina. Sen. Clinton is killing him among black support. This thing is about votes plan and simple...Obama is trying to do all he can (I dont think this is the best way to need black support) to get some more black support
Rikyrah made it clear--and I share her belief--that homosexuality is genetic and not a sin. Let me ask you this...when Senator Obama spoke out against homophobia in the Black community during both the HU and HRC debates, why didn't Irene, Earl Hutchinson and other serial critics of Senator Obama use that as a springboard to launch a much overdue discussion on the issue? Why the dead silence then and such vocal criticism now? Nothing is ever good enough for Obama haters. He's damned if he does and damned if he doesn't. To my knowledge, he is the ONLY candidate who has spoken publicly about the issue and not just now but on previous occassions directly confronting Black clergy in the South. But of course he gets no credit for that. Instead, he gets criticism for airing our dirty laundry in front of white folks. Be honest, this is not as much about Donnie McClurkin as it is about furthering opposition against Senator Obama using whatever means at your disposal.
P.S.: He's now being criticized for his association for Floyd Mayweather. Seems odd that Floyd was celebrity contestant on Dancing with the Starts and no womens' groups, all supporting Hillary Clinton by the way, had an issue with him, ABC or Disney until it was reported he would be appearing with Senator Obama at a campaign event. This is some double standard BS and you know it!
How are you?
Come on back to Skeptical Brotha. He's got some hoppin' posts up these days.
It is unfortunate what happened to your friend. Too often African Americans victimize each other in Black on Black crime. I indeed feel your pain. However the number of African Americans attacked and left for dead or out right killed just because of their skin color is legion. A 13 year old Black child Jesse Dirkhising is brutally raped tortured and murdered in Arkansas by gay lovers and it doesn't even make the national media because it might injure the agenda of gay activists. When any attacks on gays occur they are broadcast coast to coast as hate crimes. Under the big gay tent pedophilia is condoned and embraced. That is why there are organizations like NAMBLA to protect and advance it. If calling pedophilia and abuse sin makes me a bigot, I guess this son of African slave ancestors will be a bigot. God did not lock us into instinct in this area. If he didn't give us choice how could he judge us for the choices we make. I have gay friends that I love and pray for. They do not reqiure me to love or condone what they do. In Christianity homosexuality, fornication, and adultery are all sins. God did not play favorites. That said, the efforts of homosexuals to appropriate and equate their struggles in America with African Americans is unfounded and regrettable. Amazingly while we have unraveled the human genome, we did not find any gay gene. My skin color is beyond a shadow of a doubt genetic in origin and I am not so naive as to believe that homosexuals did not oppress our people along with the rest of this american society since the African diaspora, our enslavement and our apartheid in America. Sorry but still in America race trumps "sexual orientation" and we still have religious freedom in our constitution that allows me to call homosexuality what God calls it: "sin". That's Ok Christ died to free us from the bondage of sin.
Whoa. You just said
"...Under the big gay tent pedophilia is condoned and embraced. That is why there are organizations like NAMBLA to protect and advance it. If calling pedophilia and abuse sin makes me a bigot, I guess this son of African slave ancestors will be a bigot..."
As somebody who runs a web site myself, and who just enabled comments there a couple days ago, I do not want to violate our host's place by calling you a name. So I won't. But I could.
The contention that "gay=pedophile" and the rhetorical invocation of "NAMBLA" in discussions of whether gays should be attacked or ostracized or prayed over are standard conventions of white right ring haters, religious Republicans and theocrats and their enablers, from Jerry Falwell and Pat Robertson to Karl Rove. They are scurrilous, nasty, but highly useful rhetorical devices. And plain unvarnished lies.
Most pedophiles are heterosexual, if that term has any meaning in that context. And I know lots of gays, including some inside and outside my family who have adopted and are raising children. In the context of present day American politics, to support and spread --- even to fail to challenge the hateful Big Lie that there is a connection between gayness and pedophilia is to support efforts to keep gay parents from raising their children, to support the stripping of parental rights from gay parents, the denial of family and inheritance rights to gays and much more.
To hear these hateful lies invoked and spread by black folks who should know better is itself hurtful, and is an indication of how far we have yet to go. I doubt that your God made you a liar. But you say She gives you second chances. At the very least, you need to check your facts. And of course, it ain't my job to judge you, but you might even need your forgiveness ticket punched again.
And what kind of hateful nonsense is this?
"...I am not so naive as to believe that homosexuals did not oppress our people along with the rest of this american society since the African diaspora, our enslavement and our apartheid in America. Sorry but still in America race trumps 'sexual orientation'..."
Uh-huh. So it's OK to dump on gays cause (1) some slavemasters, slave traders, and present day gays are racist, and (2) because Our Suffering is Greater Than Theirs. How sick is that?
And how sick are we as a community if we do not challenge this stuff. Even --- and perhaps especially when we hear it from our "religious" leaders.
In reality, this discussion is not about religion at all. This is about denying the rights of citizenship and humanity to a scapegoated group in order to elevate the leaders who lead us in that hatred to greater power. It's a civil and political issue, hiding under the cloak of religion, with the connivance of some religious "leaders" who have something (power? money? faith-based grants?) to gain.
I also think challenging African-American religious leaders is misleading. Gays ONLY challenge the Christian religion, because Muslims and Jews don’t accept them PERIOD. You would think that gays would appreciate Christianity for embracing them when the others don’t. Not going to happen though. You give a person an inch, you know the rest.
People will have to be legally blind to believe that a person’s skin color can be compared to two people of the same gender having sex. Do you see how stupid that sounds? Oh, and FYI, what is even more stupid, it’s always compared to black skin, no other color. The trick is this—It’s like being black, why we would want the controversy? Good question.
When it comes to God, he doesn’t approve of sex out of wedlock. Is there a such thing as a gay virgin? I’ll wait for the answer. Time’s up. I didn’t think so either. Homosexuality is about sex and that’s it. You can love people of the same gender, but CAN’T YOU KEEP YOUR LEGS CLOTHES?
This is my conclusion, if all people want to bring their sexual issues to church, you have to accept the following 3 rules and warning.
1. All adulterers, fornicators, masturbators, child molesters and homosexuals will have equal say, without being shut out.
2. All of the issues must be brought up in the Mosques, Temples and Churches everywhere.
3. You must also accept bestiality, because some people say they were born that way. It’s happening in Europe --> http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2005/may/25/bro... - Do not tell God that the religious people said “you can be gay.” Remember religious people don’t have a Heaven or Hell for you.
I happen to be a very spiritual person, but I'm sorry, I don't want another president who's going to use religion to further their agenda. Let us get back to candidates who practice what they preach, keep their word, are diplomatic, intelligent and uphold human and civil rights for everyone.
Obama, next time just get a black motivational or civil rights speaker and leave the religious sermons at the church.