Jack and Jill Politics - Latest Comments in When It Comes To Michelle Obama, Where Are The Feminists?

Re: When It Comes To Michelle Obama, Where Are The Feminists?

AAW — Wed, 25 Jun 2008 16:06:00 -0000

I've wanted to scream at my TV many number of times when I see the dissection of Michelle Obama by Media pundits especially from the women.

One of the reasons I dedicated a few of my blogs to the cofounding way the media treats her. I can tell that either majority of these white pundits have no educated black woman friends or are just oblivious to other race perceptions.

Re: When It Comes To Michelle Obama, Where Are The Feminists?

Anonymous — Wed, 25 Jun 2008 14:54:00 -0000

AMEN to nmp: Let's add stephanie "I made a half-hearted endorsement of Mr. Obama, but, I still wish so very much that I could have gotten the opportunity to move from the "field" into the "house" wif "missy billary" Tubbs Jones and sheila "yeah, me an' steph had planned to be 'roomies in the basement in the "house" 'til we was needed in the kitchen, etc. what a bummer! Jackson Lee.

Re: When It Comes To Michelle Obama, Where Are The Feminists?

Nita — Wed, 25 Jun 2008 13:53:00 -0000

@Anonymous said... "There seems to be a pattern of the Republicans and their henchmen attacking the Democratic nominee's wife -- no matter who she is. "

Republicans aren't the problem here. So-called Democrats and so-called Feminists are. One expects slings and arrows from one's enemies --

the real test is where one's 'friends' are. And those 'friends' are absent.

Angela, thank you for the column. Town, WORD to both of your posts. Required reading. Jed, you don't want to see, so there's no opening your eyes until you open them yourself. NMP, remember what Malcolm said about that type of thing?

Sara, intensity is everything -- and it just ain't there for Michelle, as it continues to be for Hillary.

Re: When It Comes To Michelle Obama, Where Are The Feminists?

Names4things — Wed, 25 Jun 2008 07:29:00 -0000

I am a feminist, womanist, or hatever you want to call those of us who struggle for black women; and have been for decades, and I am black. I am married to a black man, happily, and for a loong time. I am feminist in response to the EXTREME masculinism of black men. Most black men have demonstrated and/or declared by their actions and their cultural afiliations that black women are the enemy to them. It has broken my heart.
Mine is not a sisterhood with the racist white women that constitute so much of what so many of you call "mainstream feminists". They are neither-- mainstream, nor feminist. They're privileged white women with outsized entitlement pathologies. You couldn't find one of those biyotches for years (a woman claiming she's 'feminist'), until Monster falsely claimed it by campaigning on her skank husband's resume.

Take a harder look at what we say to each other and how it's said. There is not a goddammed thing wrong with a black woman claiming- demanding equality. There is everything wrong with our serial slandering, libel, murders, rapes, and denials of its impact.

My sisterhood is with brothers. You're not my brother if you believe the casual blackwoman hate in so many cultural mores is acceptable to you.

This thread is one of the least informed I've ever seen here.

Re: When It Comes To Michelle Obama, Where Are The Feminists?

The Christian Progressive Libe — Wed, 25 Jun 2008 06:23:00 -0000

Like Tim Wise said, "Their Whitness is Showing."

Re: When It Comes To Michelle Obama, Where Are The Feminists?

Anonymous — Wed, 25 Jun 2008 01:36:00 -0000

I'm glad an earlier commenter mentioned shakesville--wish the poster had. There have been plenty of white feminist bloggers defending Obama, including Adele Stan, who replied to Linda Hirshman's piece commented on above, as well as Kathy G., maha, pre-blog feminist Katha Pollitt recently--I can't even scratch the surface. More generally, the whole left blogosphere has been calling out gender-based attacks on both democratic contenders, whether it's the masculization of Hillary or the feminization of Obama and Edwards? Do the blogs count? I'm sure their silence would've been "instructive."

Re: When It Comes To Michelle Obama, Where Are The Feminists?

Anonymous — Wed, 25 Jun 2008 01:12:00 -0000

That was AWESOME!!!! Well said and well written. The feminist movement is not about black women and it never has been.

Re: When It Comes To Michelle Obama, Where Are The Feminists?

Anonymous — Tue, 24 Jun 2008 18:47:00 -0000

There seems to be a pattern of the Republicans and their henchmen attacking the Democratic nominee's wife -- no matter who she is. The villification of Hillary by the Republicans started when Bill was running. (Of course, she's since demonstrated that she richly deserved it.) But remember the stuff they said about Teresa Heinz Kerry? Remember the rumor that there was a picture of Kitty Dukakis burning the flag? The "Whitey" smear continues this pattern. Of course, there's now the racial angle, so the smears are many, many fold worse, but this is not a new tactic by the Republicans (and their sock puppets.)

Re: When It Comes To Michelle Obama, Where Are The Feminists?

Angela — Tue, 24 Jun 2008 16:32:00 -0000

from www.seattlemedium.com

Michelle Obama: Ain't She A Woman?

by Gary L. Flowers

NNPA Columnist

Originally posted 6/24/2008

Sororal treatment has linked Sojourner Truth and Michelle Obama in history.

In 1843, a domestic servant in up-state New York whose given name was Isabella Van Wagenen changed her birth name to one that would reflect her mission in life - Sojourner Truth.

Her life's journey would lead her to be revered for her stature, intellect, and fearlessness. Like Harriet Tubman, Sojourner Truth was one the first Black feminists to publicly assert that Black women should be viewed as total human beings.

In other words, within the Black community there are women; and within the feminist movement, there are Black women.

As an abolitionist and an itinerant Pentecostal preacher, Ms. Truth was invited to the 1851 Women's Conference in Akron, Ohio. According to Frances Gage, a White abolitionist and president of the conference, as Sojourner Truth rose to approach the stage, White women whispered, ''For God''s sake, Mrs. Gage, don't let her speak.''

Despite the whispers, she was reported to have famously said, ''I have borne children and seen most of them sold into slavery, and when cried out with a mother's grief, none but Jesus heard me. And ain't I a woman?''

One hundred and sixty-five years after Sojourner Truth assumed the national stage comes Michelle Robinson Obama. Like Truth, Mrs. Obama stands 5' 11'' tall and possesses a commanding, yet feminine presence. Raised by parents who instilled in young Michelle and her brother, Craig, a thirst to succeed despite racial oppression in the world, the potential First Lady of the White House is gifted and grounded.

Ivy-League educated at Princeton and Harvard, the wife, mother, lawyer, and woman is worthy of respect. Yet, like Mrs. Truth, Mrs. Obama has had to succeed amidst the whispering campaigns of negativity.

She is said to be ''angry'' and ''the baby mama of Obama''. Maureen Dowd suggested that many Americans believe Michelle Obama to be ''emasculating'' to her candidate husband. Likewise, the blogesphere is rife with the modern version of whispered insults and innuendo.

For example, a recent posting on the Daily Kos revealed an image of a wrist-bound Michelle Obama about to be burned on the back by Ku Klux Klansmen, with the title ''Our New Hi Tech Southern Strategy'' sponsored by the David Duke Fan Club.

Whether 1851 or 2008, fear-mongers and the ignorant that use race as a dividing wedge are not surprising. What is alarming is the lack of defense for Mrs. Obama that is afforded to others. If Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton who once was First Lady in the White House deserved - as she did - defending by leading White feminists from stereotypically sexist attacks on the campaign trail such as hecklers yelling ''Hillary: Iron my shirt'', than surely Mrs. Obama as a potential First Lady in the White House deserves the same. One set of defense rules. The only leading voice I have heard has been National Organization for Women president Kim Gandy who is ''watching'' for sexist attacks on Michelle Obama. And this is a good start.

But where are the famous names in feminism now that Mrs. Obama is under attack?

Metaphorically, the cultural chasm between Helen Reddy's ''I am Woman'' (1972) and Chaka Khan's ''I am Every Woman'' (1992) must be closed to open a new paradigm of equal defense for equal offense.

Appearing on the television show, ''The View'', last week, Mrs. Obama was poised and personal; elegant and electric. As she fielded questions, Michelle Obama did so with a sense of genuine openness, which seemingly connected with the viewers of ''The View''.

But why did she have to appear in the first place? Sojourner Truth's words still instruct us:

''If the first woman God ever made [Eve] was strong enough to turn the world upside down all alone, these women together ought to be able to turn it back and get it right-side up again.'' Together, we are one.

Gary Flowers is executive director and CEO of the Black Leadership Forum.

Re: When It Comes To Michelle Obama, Where Are The Feminists?

Town — Tue, 24 Jun 2008 15:58:00 -0000

@ Jed:

I guess we can't defend Laura Bush either, since she's been on many a "Today" show and was on the cover of "Ladies Home Journal."

@ annaarcturus:

I think a lot of people just want to be heard. I don't know how to answer your question but to say, "Please just listen." I think some white feminists want WOC to sit at the table but only if they're quiet and don't say anything or only if they back them up. Just listen. I guess that's the only answer I could give you.

Re: When It Comes To Michelle Obama, Where Are The Feminists?

Michelle — Tue, 24 Jun 2008 15:01:00 -0000

@Lizzy: sure but there is a real and serious history and presence of forms of US white feminism which place white women right at the center, are dominated by white women, and have white feminist racism as core (if usually implicit) parts of them.

They are actual feminism too -- and one of those forms of feminism was LOUD in support of Hillary Clinton and running all sorts of racism during the primary.

IMO naming complexities should not erase the ugly reality that is actually part of them.

Re: When It Comes To Michelle Obama, Where Are The Feminists?

AnnaArcturus — Tue, 24 Jun 2008 14:35:00 -0000

Speaking as an educated, young, feminist white woman, how do I come to your table? This dust up has shown me my own racism. How I tense up when I see a black man in "that side of town," how I keep longing to go into our town's "black bookstore" but can't face the stares and my expectations of being looked down on. Meanwhile, your feminism is healthier than mine. I'm straight, but my feminism has pushed the men in my life away. I still can't juggle work and the rest. So, I see my privilege, I'm outraged about Michelle's treatment, and I don't know what to do.

Re: When It Comes To Michelle Obama, Where Are The Feminists?

jed — Tue, 24 Jun 2008 14:03:00 -0000

It's kind of hard to defend anyone who appeared on The View or appears on the cover of US magazine. She has moved from the position of politician's wife to celebrity in her own right. I'd say that if Obama wins, get used to her getting lampooned from all quarters.

Re: When It Comes To Michelle Obama, Where Are The Feminists?

taritac — Tue, 24 Jun 2008 13:35:00 -0000

I'm loving the comments to this post. rikyrah makes a good point about many mainstream feminists being absent now that Clinton is off the stage, but as commenters mentioned above, the problem is larger than Michelle Obama. "Mainstream" feminists-- which rightly or wrongly has come to mean middle- to upper-class, white, professional women-- ignore much of what happens to women of other socio-economic backgrounds and other races. Anyone who has taken a feminist theory class knows that this is not a new problem, and that is why there are so many different feminist ideologies.

The thing is, these divisions are hardening, in large part because this political race has put the issues in our face. A recent article by Linda Hirshman sent waves through the feminist blogosphere with her assertion that mainstream feminism OUGHT to ignore the issues of non-white, non-professional, or non-middle-class women. In essence, she said that middle-class white women shouldn't be concerned about the well-being of anyone else until they get . . . well, I don't know what they really don't have at this point other than a presidential office.

It is interesting to me that so many of these mainstream feminists seem absolutely baffled that other women don't automatically support them. The big question in my feminist classes was why black women put their black identity before their feminine identity, as if race is a non-issue.

Re: When It Comes To Michelle Obama, Where Are The Feminists?

Sara — Tue, 24 Jun 2008 13:31:00 -0000

I haven't commented here before, but I wanted to jump in because I've really enjoyed the insight this blog has had on the problems we've seen in the primaries and the continuing racism the Obamas as a family are affected by in this race.

All that being said, I'd like to echo some commenters here that have noted that there have been really strong feminist WOC voices in the blogosphere and that even when I don't think all bloggers/commenters are on the same page on blogs run by younger feminists (like Feministing), they certainly haven't ignored Michelle Obama's treatment.

This is not to say that racism doesn't pervade the ranks of feminism like it does other parts of life, but I think dismissing sexism in this election is like the (predominantly) older and white feminists dismissing racism. Both are real and both affect us and both are horrible.

Re: When It Comes To Michelle Obama, Where Are The Feminists?

Town — Tue, 24 Jun 2008 13:05:00 -0000

But separation (fear and hate and blame etc.) has not helped progress in anyway, that includes separation of black women from white women.
---------------

IMO, this is putting the blame for the separation of black and white women on black women. This may not be your intention but that's how I read it. I'm not seeing trying to set a place at the table for black women, or Asian women or Latino women. Or even poor white women. I've always seen it as "you can come to the dinner but you have to sit at the kids' table over there," and the only time WOC are allowed at the table is to clean it off and make it look pretty.

I think it goes both ways. Just as there are black women who don't desire to sit at the table, there are white women who don't want us in the dining room to begin with. And I think that needs to be addressed and rectified and if that can't happen then WOC need to sit at our own tables.

Re: When It Comes To Michelle Obama, Where Are The Feminists?

GBM — Tue, 24 Jun 2008 13:05:00 -0000

I wrote about this on my blog (yesterday lol). Check it out

www.gbminnyc.blogspot.com

Re: When It Comes To Michelle Obama, Where Are The Feminists?

Lynn — Tue, 24 Jun 2008 12:44:00 -0000

As a black woman, a supporter of Barack and Michelle, this posting makes me sad. It makes me sad that we are still feeling so separate as women. By you saying that feminism is not for you and you feel no solidarity with white women is the same sentiment that you are criticizing Hillary supporters for.

You talk about not wanting to be separate from our men, no one is asking you to be. But separation (fear and hate and blame etc.) has not helped progress in anyway, that includes separation of black women from white women.

Re: When It Comes To Michelle Obama, Where Are The Feminists?

NMP — Tue, 24 Jun 2008 12:41:00 -0000

Let's start with the Clinton supporting women in the CBC, namely Sheila Jackson Lee. They used their recent meeting with Senator Obama to continue to gripe about the perceived mistreatment of Senator Clinton, but yet they collectively remain silent on the more obvious and vicious mistreatment of Michelle Obama with whom they have much more vested interest. When will they let go of Hillary Clinton's corset strings and stand with Michelle Obama?

Re: When It Comes To Michelle Obama, Where Are The Feminists?

jon — Tue, 24 Jun 2008 12:06:00 -0000

Totally agree. While there are some exceptions (Shakesville, for example), the silence is on the whole quite deafening. And, while I know it shouldn't be, it's surprising too. And most of all, disappointing.

Re: When It Comes To Michelle Obama, Where Are The Feminists?

Admiral Komack — Tue, 24 Jun 2008 11:50:00 -0000

I have just come from Tennessee Guerilla Women; I pasted some of the post and a link to the post there.

Re: When It Comes To Michelle Obama, Where Are The Feminists?

Anonymous — Tue, 24 Jun 2008 10:58:00 -0000

True! As a white woman from a working class background but with Ivy League, too, I've seen the hyporicy of the feminist movement up close and personal. When I approached a leading female advisor of a certain Presidential campaign about reaching out to working class women, I was told "leave that SEIU or something like." Mind you, lots of working class aren't even unionized.

Moreover, I was appalled at the Democratic National Convention in 2004 when the women's causus was all about abortion rights and glass ceilings. I was like damn it, we are so worried about the glass cieling what about all our sisters who aren't even on the sidewalk to to building with the glass ceiling.

So of course, upper class white women don't get it. They don't get the racism that Michelle faes, and they don't get the classism that both Black and White women face every single day.

Which is why I was never sympathtic to Hillary's struggles- she came from an middle class family and benifeted from every single civil rights stuggle and since she was White she got more doors open to her.. so hers isn't exactly the ideal story.

Re: When It Comes To Michelle Obama, Where Are The Feminists?

Chaz — Tue, 24 Jun 2008 10:47:00 -0000

As a young black male queer feminist I understand this post and have wondered about mainstream feminist silence.

However, I know that this feminism is bereft with problems and many minorities and non-hetero peoples are left out. Luckily I'm sheltered in academia where these blank spots in feminism are exposed for what they are.

Quite simply, the failure of feminism as a mainstream movement isn't new (see: "Ain't I a woman" by Bell Hooks or my favorite "Women race & Class" by Angela Davis). These intersections or race, gender, class, and sexuality are hard enough to discuss in the academy so I've had little faith that they'd be part of mainstream feminism at all.

However, perhaps the silence of this overwhelmingly older, white feminist overclass will open up the eyes of younger people and peoples of color to the damaging privilege and racism in the movement. Or at least one can hope.

Re: When It Comes To Michelle Obama, Where Are The Feminists?

Town — Tue, 24 Jun 2008 10:17:00 -0000

The "feminists" we speak of are the same ones who ran down to CNN, MSNBC, FOX, ABC, CBS, any microphone, any digital recorder, any reporter, any blog, any Op-Ed piece to scream about the rampant sexism going on in this campaign.

The sexism is still going on, just with Michelle Obama as a target, and all you hear are **crickets** from the same people who made sure to run down any outlet they could to scream about the sexism against Hillary Clinton.

To scream about Obama "brushing his shoulders off" really meaning he was diminishing Hillary Clinton.

To scream about Obama calling the reporter "sweetie."

To scream about Obama calling Hillary Clinton "Annie Oakley."

To scream about Obama saying how Hillary's claws were coming out.

To scream about Obama saying "periodically" to refer to Hillary's menstrual cycle.

No one on this blog (or any other outlet) is saying that "all feminists" are silent. Just the ones who screamed loudest about the sexism when it came to Hillary Clinton.

Where they at?

**crickets**

Still waiting.

I saw the first page of comments at the Washington Post and the majority of the people who justify being silent blame Michelle Obama and her RACE for the reason why they should stay silent. 90% of the comments slamming Michelle claim she is "racist" and "hates white people" and she has a "sista gurl mouth".

Basically the people who were screaming the loudest about the rampant sexism, and are now quiet, feel that Michelle Obama deserves what she gets, and she deserves what she gets, in part, because she's black.

Re: When It Comes To Michelle Obama, Where Are The Feminists?

evita — Tue, 24 Jun 2008 09:50:00 -0000

Rikyrah- per usual you are dead on.

I have a few questions to ask whomever:

Have we assumed the position of "wanting" to be invited tot he table?

Should we assume a position that perhaps there are MANY strong, intelligent, professionally powerful women or MEN for that matter who we can ask to speak up in defense of Michelle Obama and skip the likes of Steinhem and her band of myopic racists?

If we have our own table, and I do believe we do, then it is time for us to re-energize, starting writing op eds in every newspaper and ask those of power and those who support the fair treatment of women and condemn racism to speak up.

If we publicly call the major feminists orgs out, they will have to take a stand... But if they do't, we should have others take the reigns (sp?) of defending the best example of feminism that I have personally seen in while, Michelle Obama.