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This is my problem with this. The reaction seems to be a reflex reaction. A defense against the negativity from the likes of Fox News that doesn't accurately portray the life and experiences of black America. Instead of commenting, piggy backing on the points the senator made, instead of addressing the issues that need to be addressed, we're attacking him for how the outsiders of the community see us.
What I'm hearing is 1. don't tell us when we need to do better, 2. play up our strong points and only criticize other people and 3. speak as we speak and don't have an independent thought.
I don't believe senator Obama is beyond criticism. Far from it. But I don't expect him nor need him to speak for me, be the mouth piece for an entire race.
We can do better. That was the theme of his speech. It wasn't "all black fathers suck!" It was about not sitting down and resting on our achievements. Strive to make things even better than they are. This is the same philosophy that Senator Obama has shared with the rest of the country, black and white, young and old. I share that philosophy.
My name is Jenn btw. I can't sign in at the moment.
Brothas in particular, are taking exception to Mr. Obama's comments, when they know they have been holding it down as fathers, and he didn't even give them so much as a shout out for the positives.
I may be wrong, but it seems that when Mr. Obama is in front of Black People, he pulls a "Cosby" and we let it pass without challenging him on the veracity of his remarks, while, at the same time, he provides comfort to whites by essentially saying "See, I'm not like the other brothas."
He cannot be a brotha when it's convenient. Harold Ford tried that and look where it got him - right out of politics with a snowball's chance in hell of getting back what he used to have. And he made it more difficult if he's planning to re-enter politics in Memphis because he has a white wife. If he were in California, New York or any major city, the race of his wife wouldn't be an issue - in Memphis, it will be and always will be.
That's why some folk are upset with Obama's remarks - he painted all brothas with the same brush and if his remarks were out of context, he needs to step up and own up, while Manning Up.
My father held it down for 18 years before giving in to alcholism. Say what you want about that, but before he crawled into a bottle, my father held down two jobs and ran a business selling scrap metal and a barbeque joint in 5th Ward in Houston, Texas.
My brothers; one is a retired Air Force Captain, the other is a managment official at Pacific Bell/AT&T;, and have been married to the same women for 35 and 30 years, respectively. My six nieces and three nephews have between them four college degrees, military service, and one is a Youth Pastor.
My sister-in-laws are versions of Michelle Obama - while they don't have degree's from Princeton or Harvard, one of my sister-in-laws managed her degree from Pepperdine and the other one did her work overseas.
I say all that to explain while you interpreted Senator Obama's remarks one way, brothas like mine, Boyce Watkins, Glen Ford, Bruce Dixon, George Curry and others, heard the same remarks and that's how they were interpreted.
He could have at least clarified his remarks by qualifying them.
I appreciated his speech!!
Let's play fair!
But, can we get to some real issues: 1. CHANGING the nature of FAUX SPEWS. Do you know how much work that this is going to take - to "put them on significant blast"?;
to contact all their sponsors!\
What have we done lately?
2. Putting the GOP Convention in Texas "on serious blast". They are putting racist paraphernalia on sale against Mr. Obama.
We have work to do.
THANK YOU, in advance for all your efforts.
"You know, sometimes I'll go to an eighth-grade graduation and there's all that pomp and circumstance and gowns and flowers. And I think to myself, it's just eighth grade. To really compete, they need to graduate high school, and then they need to graduate college, and they probably need a graduate degree too. An eighth-grade education doesn't cut it today. Let's give them a handshake and tell them to get their butts back in the library!"
Simply put, if you are taking care of your children, then he wasn't talking to you. But, whether or not we want to acknowledge the truth there are many black men who are not taking care of their children. Yet, how many of those same men revel in their ability to spread their "seed" but seem incapable of making a commitment to one woman or to a lawful job? Is this only a black problem? No. But we have to acknowledge that it has reached an epidemic proportion in our community with approximately 70% (7/10) of black children born out of wedlock.
Name one thing in his speech that wasn't true and then name one thing he said on Father's Day that he hasn't said before. This is the fundamental disconnect in the black community, those of us who see the future of our race in peril, and those that only want to look at the crisis in the black community as a function of racism without personal or moral accountability. It diminishes the strength and resilience of black people to act like we are above criticism and the truth. And Obama has more of my respect because he spoke the truth and deep down we all know it.
At the end of the Sermon on the Mount, Jesus closes by saying, "Whoever hears these words of mine, and does them, shall be likened to a wise man who built his house upon a rock: and the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house, and it fell not, for it was founded upon a rock." [Matthew 7: 24-25]
Here at Apostolic, you are blessed to worship in a house that has been founded on the rock of Jesus Christ, our Lord and Savior. But it is also built on another rock, another foundation - and that rock is Bishop Arthur Brazier. In forty-eight years, he has built this congregation from just a few hundred to more than 20,000 strong - a congregation that, because of his leadership, has braved the fierce winds and heavy rains of violence and poverty; joblessness and hopelessness. Because of his work and his ministry, there are more graduates and fewer gang members in the neighborhoods surrounding this church. There are more homes and fewer homeless. There is more community and less chaos because Bishop Brazier continued the march for justice that he began by Dr. King's side all those years ago. He is the reason this house has stood tall for half a century. And on this Father's Day, it must make him proud to know that the man now charged with keeping its foundation strong is his son and your new pastor, Reverend Byron Brazier.
Of all the rocks upon which we build our lives, we are reminded today that family is the most important. And we are called to recognize and honor how critical every father is to that foundation. They are teachers and coaches. They are mentors and role models. They are examples of success and the men who constantly push us toward it.
But if we are honest with ourselves, we'll admit that what too many fathers also are is missing - missing from too many lives and too many homes. They have abandoned their responsibilities, acting like boys instead of men. And the foundations of our families are weaker because of it.
You and I know how true this is in the African-American community. We know that more than half of all black children live in single-parent households, a number that has doubled - doubled - since we were children. We know the statistics - that children who grow up without a father are five times more likely to live in poverty and commit crime; nine times more likely to drop out of schools and twenty times more likely to end up in prison. They are more likely to have behavioral problems, or run away from home, or become teenage parents themselves. And the foundations of our community are weaker because of it.
How many times in the last year has this city lost a child at the hands of another child? How many times have our hearts stopped in the middle of the night with the sound of a gunshot or a siren? How many teenagers have we seen hanging around on street corners when they should be sitting in a classroom? How many are sitting in prison when they should be working, or at least looking for a job? How many in this generation are we willing to lose to poverty or violence or addiction? How many?
Yes, we need more cops on the street. Yes, we need fewer guns in the hands of people who shouldn't have them. Yes, we need more money for our schools, and more outstanding teachers in the classroom, and more afterschool programs for our children. Yes, we need more jobs and more job training and more opportunity in our communities.
But we also need families to raise our children. We need fathers to realize that responsibility does not end at conception. We need them to realize that what makes you a man is not the ability to have a child - it's the courage to raise one.
We need to help all the mothers out there who are raising these kids by themselves; the mothers who drop them off at school, go to work, pick up them up in the afternoon, work another shift, get dinner, make lunches, pay the bills, fix the house, and all the other things it takes both parents to do. So many of these women are doing a heroic job, but they need support. They need another parent. Their children need another parent. That's what keeps their foundation strong. It's what keeps the foundation of our country strong.
I know what it means to have an absent father, although my circumstances weren't as tough as they are for many young people today. Even though my father left us when I was two years old, and I only knew him from the letters he wrote and the stories that my family told, I was luckier than most. I grew up in Hawaii, and had two wonderful grandparents from Kansas who poured everything they had into helping my mother raise my sister and me - who worked with her to teach us about love and respect and the obligations we have to one another. I screwed up more often than I should've, but I got plenty of second chances. And even though we didn't have a lot of money, scholarships gave me the opportunity to go to some of the best schools in the country. A lot of kids don't get these chances today. There is no margin for error in their lives. So my own story is different in that way.
Still, I know the toll that being a single parent took on my mother - how she struggled at times to the pay bills; to give us the things that other kids had; to play all the roles that both parents are supposed to play. And I know the toll it took on me. So I resolved many years ago that it was my obligation to break the cycle - that if I could be anything in life, I would be a good father to my girls; that if I could give them anything, I would give them that rock - that foundation - on which to build their lives. And that would be the greatest gift I could offer.
I say this knowing that I have been an imperfect father - knowing that I have made mistakes and will continue to make more; wishing that I could be home for my girls and my wife more than I am right now. I say this knowing all of these things because even as we are imperfect, even as we face difficult circumstances, there are still certain lessons we must strive to live and learn as fathers - whether we are black or white; rich or poor; from the South Side or the wealthiest suburb.
The first is setting an example of excellence for our children - because if we want to set high expectations for them, we've got to set high expectations for ourselves. It's great if you have a job; it's even better if you have a college degree. It's a wonderful thing if you are married and living in a home with your children, but don't just sit in the house and watch "SportsCenter" all weekend long. That's why so many children are growing up in front of the television. As fathers and parents, we've got to spend more time with them, and help them with their homework, and replace the video game or the remote control with a book once in awhile. That's how we build that foundation.
We know that education is everything to our children's future. We know that they will no longer just compete for good jobs with children from Indiana, but children from India and China and all over the world. We know the work and the studying and the level of education that requires.
You know, sometimes I'll go to an eighth-grade graduation and there's all that pomp and circumstance and gowns and flowers. And I think to myself, it's just eighth grade. To really compete, they need to graduate high school, and then they need to graduate college, and they probably need a graduate degree too. An eighth-grade education doesn't cut it today. Let's give them a handshake and tell them to get their butts back in the library!
It's up to us - as fathers and parents - to instill this ethic of excellence in our children. It's up to us to say to our daughters, don't ever let images on TV tell you what you are worth, because I expect you to dream without limit and reach for those goals. It's up to us to tell our sons, those songs on the radio may glorify violence, but in my house we live glory to achievement, self respect, and hard work. It's up to us to set these high expectations. And that means meeting those expectations ourselves. That means setting examples of excellence in our own lives.
The second thing we need to do as fathers is pass along the value of empathy to our children. Not sympathy, but empathy - the ability to stand in somebody else's shoes; to look at the world through their eyes. Sometimes it's so easy to get caught up in "us," that we forget about our obligations to one another. There's a culture in our society that says remembering these obligations is somehow soft - that we can't show weakness, and so therefore we can't show kindness.
But our young boys and girls see that. They see when you are ignoring or mistreating your wife. They see when you are inconsiderate at home; or when you are distant; or when you are thinking only of yourself. And so it's no surprise when we see that behavior in our schools or on our streets. That's why we pass on the values of empathy and kindness to our children by living them. We need to show our kids that you're not strong by putting other people down - you're strong by lifting them up. That's our responsibility as fathers.
And by the way - it's a responsibility that also extends to Washington. Because if fathers are doing their part; if they're taking our responsibilities seriously to be there for their children, and set high expectations for them, and instill in them a sense of excellence and empathy, then our government should meet them halfway.
We should be making it easier for fathers who make responsible choices and harder for those who avoid them. We should get rid of the financial penalties we impose on married couples right now, and start making sure that every dime of child support goes directly to helping children instead of some bureaucrat. We should reward fathers who pay that child support with job training and job opportunities and a larger Earned Income Tax Credit that can help them pay the bills. We should expand programs where registered nurses visit expectant and new mothers and help them learn how to care for themselves before the baby is born and what to do after - programs that have helped increase father involvement, women's employment, and children's readiness for school. We should help these new families care for their children by expanding maternity and paternity leave, and we should guarantee every worker more paid sick leave so they can stay home to take care of their child without losing their income.
We should take all of these steps to build a strong foundation for our children. But we should also know that even if we do; even if we meet our obligations as fathers and parents; even if Washington does its part too, we will still face difficult challenges in our lives. There will still be days of struggle and heartache. The rains will still come and the winds will still blow.
And that is why the final lesson we must learn as fathers is also the greatest gift we can pass on to our children - and that is the gift of hope.
I'm not talking about an idle hope that's little more than blind optimism or willful ignorance of the problems we face. I'm talking about hope as that spirit inside us that insists, despite all evidence to the contrary, that something better is waiting for us if we're willing to work for it and fight for it. If we are willing to believe.
I was answering questions at a town hall meeting in Wisconsin the other day and a young man raised his hand, and I figured he'd ask about college tuition or energy or maybe the war in Iraq. But instead he looked at me very seriously and he asked, "What does life mean to you?"
Now, I have to admit that I wasn't quite prepared for that one. I think I stammered for a little bit, but then I stopped and gave it some thought, and I said this:
When I was a young man, I thought life was all about me - how do I make my way in the world, and how do I become successful and how do I get the things that I want.
But now, my life revolves around my two little girls. And what I think about is what kind of world I'm leaving them. Are they living in a county where there's a huge gap between a few who are wealthy and a whole bunch of people who are struggling every day? Are they living in a county that is still divided by race? A country where, because they're girls, they don't have as much opportunity as boys do? Are they living in a country where we are hated around the world because we don't cooperate effectively with other nations? Are they living a world that is in grave danger because of what we've done to its climate?
And what I've realized is that life doesn't count for much unless you're willing to do your small part to leave our children - all of our children - a better world. Even if it's difficult. Even if the work seems great. Even if we don't get very far in our lifetime.
That is our ultimate responsibility as fathers and parents. We try. We hope. We do what we can to build our house upon the sturdiest rock. And when the winds come, and the rains fall, and they beat upon that house, we keep faith that our Father will be there to guide us, and watch over us, and protect us, and lead His children through the darkest of storms into light of a better day. That is my prayer for all of us on this Father's Day, and that is my hope for this country in the years ahead. May God Bless you and your children. Thank you.
We have problems in the black community. Not talking about it is not helping. Everybody in that congregation was clapping cuz they knew he was telling the truth. It wasn't even like Obama was only talking about the bad black men do, but the tough of tough love is the only thing being remembered and not the love part of tough love.
BLACK MEN NEED TO STEP UP. And BLACK WOMEN NEED TO STEP UP, TOO. If black people don't want to hear it, black people will continue down the same jacked up path to nowhere.
Well, the Obamas is grown folks, even if black folks are used to being treated like children by white folks (read: Democrats) who don't give a fuck about us in the long run, except for our votes.
We need to grow up.
There is no other race I would choose to be. This means that I accept the good as well as the bad about Black people. I don't let the views of Whites or any others diminish my love of being Black. I do not need their acceptance, approval or validation.
Barack gave a speech which needed to be given. He was not pandering. The anger over this is completely unreasonable. As stated above, this is a crisis in our community and Barack is asking men to be MEN!
I believe girls and women also need
to be accountable. Everyone needs to GROW UP!
His comments were not only divisive and destructive, but I believe that they end up giving comfort to those who prey on hate...
That's what he said about Rev. Wright. Now it applies to him with no need to embellish.
Brother CPL -
I can tell that you are angry but we should really refrain from calling folks "pansies." Cal Thomas is a racist bigot but it probably has more to do with his overwhelming sense of white privilege and entitlement than whether he swishes when walks or his sexual preferences.
Let's not let these people drag us into their sewer. We have always been better than that.
::
I told myself that this debate was dead to me, but this hyperbole sounds like the bullshit that wingnuts spew on any number of issues.
Barack didn't kill anybody by giving a speech you didn't like.
And even as a metaphor, it simply doesn't work.
Divisive or destructive to whom? Because Barack grew up without his father present, this issue is close to his heart. How hard is this to understand? I guess I will have to agree to disagree on this.
Obama is running for the presidency of the United States and if he does not have either enough political courage or mother wit to talk about the problem in a more comprehensive and expansive way than simply referring to "personal responsibility" then he is either too weak or too stupid to be president. I intend to vote for him and I given real money to his campaign and served and continue to serve as a volunteer, but he does not walk on water. He puts his pants on leg at a time like most brothers.
It doesn't matter whether his speech killed anybody or not, Br. Craig. Some of us, not all of us, did not like it and most of us are expressing our objections in a principled way. I haven't changed my mind one iota about supporting him but I don't like what he said and guess what: I don't have to like what he said.
Junglecat
which could be discussed for hours.
Why did Obama need to frame the issue at all? He could have, for example, talked about all the fathers who have been killed, maimed or injured as a result of the illegal and unjustified invasion and occupation of Iraq. He could have talked about all the fathers who are still stationed there and how anxious they are to see their families again. He could have talked about all the fathers who are worried about providing medical care for their children because they no longer have health coverage.
There were a broad range of critical public issues that Obama could have addressed that is of great concern to fathers (and mothers) that are literally begging for a response from an enlightened president. Obama has no moral or legal authority to address the issue of "deadbeat parents." The issues that he could have addressed he ignored in order to deliver a message to non-black voters that he stands in opposition to so-called Democratic Party orthodoxy. Part of the problem, however, is that this view of Democrats is a myth pushed by the right wing. It is as false as Reagan's stories about "welfare queens."
Seriously folks, he will prob make another speech laced with some criticism of the AA community..this is planned and aimed at showing that he will America's prez...not a brother prez
Thank you for renewing my faith in political savvy of black folk.
as an outside observer, i thought it was balanced and he had much good to say about fathers and he called out some dads who need to get it together.
my only problem was that it didn't seem to be directed at all fathers, because there are lots and lots and lots of dads (and moms) who need to step up and take care of their kids hard core.
in general, parenting has suffered in the last 15-20 years. or how ever long. i just know it's a serious problem in this country and children are suffering for it and you can see the evidence of it in our schools. kids out of control from kindergarten on, no supervision, no attention, no efforts to enrich the lives of the kids.
that's that. and then there's this: "I know many men who want to be with their children, but they are dealing with an overbearing, hyper-dominant custodial parent" (read "woman") and that makes me think this guy's kind of a jackass.
I agree with each and every one of your positions. It was clear that this speech was an attempt to show that Obama is not "too black" in an attempt to head off the right wing propaganda campaign to paint him black through Michelle hence all the references to what kind of father Michelle had while he preceded to reprimand the unknown black fathers.
barry4obama
Your'e statements are emotion based and lacking in analysis and conclusion - that won't work here.
Your'e fighting with Obama supporters who held it down for him when others attempted to use race to diminish his viability. Why would we then allow him to use race to increase his viability?
My entire family will go south on him if he does. Our feet are still hurting.
Your family won't be the only one.
I contacted the campaign to let them know I don't want to hear black folk speeches.
Barry4Obama
Did the folks at your church have any desire to hear about the economy, healthcare, the Iraq war or did you just wanna give a brother five for knocking some people who you see as less than you?
Applause from the amen corner is not proof of the correctness or truthfulness of one's statements. Demagoguery is still demagoguery no matter how long or often the audience claps.
Yes, you did and I agreed as well. What hyperbole are you referring to here?
It was an unsatisfying speech. It made me feel not full. Speak to black men with the same regard as you would to other ethnic groups. Those who deserve it, will receive it....those who fall a little short, may be inspired to try harder.
What did he think would happen if he was respectful? Did he want to make sure they didn't get a big head...too full of themselves? He
I don't know how much filters to Barack himself from his supporters. If someone e-mails to complain, would it be dismissed by a predominantly Caucasian staff who doesn't think the black vote is in jeopardy.
You have stated everything that needs to be stated.
craig-i am totally with you!!!!
For the duration of the campaign,there have been some important/interesting issues to debate over. However, this in not one of them. I hope that this is taken in the right way, but this argument may be one of the DUMBEST I have ever posted a comment about.
1. he was not only talking about black fathers.
2.These are critical times, and there are critical issues that need to be addressed.
Did any of you who had a problem with the speech, even take the time to read the speech?
If you did, there is no way you would still be protesting. Except that you don't want to be wrong.
I have no words for how difficult it is to please black people.
Sometimes I wish that Senator Obama never ran for office. Everyob=ne has lost their collective minds.
I want to curse so badly right now, but I will just sign off and go to bed.
Peace black peolpe.
Ya'll make my ass hurt acting like he said something new.
Why do so many of you who disagree with us believe that out disagreement with the speech is based on some "peculiar disposition of our eyes" or a congenital hearing problem? We heard what Senator Obama said and we disagree with him. Let's try to avoid forming a cult of personality around Barack.
Not only did we read it, we watched a video of it. Have you read the comments of the past fews days? If not, I suggest you review for understanding. There were several valid positions for what was wrong with it and if you read those, you will conclude that we read it, viewed it, analyzed it and concluded THAT WE DIDN'T LIKE IT.
We get it that you were okay with it - we get it.
BUT WE WERE NOT - PERIOD!!
Stop that homophobia right now. It is offensive and ignorant.
However, this Arab-American smelled the pandering as soon as I heard about the Father's Day speech. I am sorry to say it reminds me of what he's been saying to AIPAC and that splinter constituency about Islam, Palestine and the Middle East question.
Look, in 2006 when Israel was pounding the **** out of Lebanese civilians, killing over a thousand, destroying infrastructure and A MILK FACTORY THAT JUST WON A U.N. CONTRACT beating out an Israeli firm... while all that was going on, Obama was cheering it on. Go get 'em. Kill those ragheads. Anything to support Israel.
I realize he has to do what he has to do to get elected, but I am indeed taking note. Will I vote for him? Yes. Will I be all starry-eyed about him? No. He is a masterful politician and he's playing to the national stage, which includes a lot of awful, awful people with unevolved ideas.
He is still going to get pounded from the right for being somehow too radical, foreign, liberal or Islamic. So he will still have to send MIchelle out to talk about pantyhose and he will still make some choices that will strike me as sour. Like this Father's Day speech.
Never invest any politician with your hopes and dreams. One thing about Barack that resonates deeply - he says we (the people) are the change we are waiting for. As a corollary (I believe) he says he is flawed. He isn't just "aw shucks"-ing. He means it. He can't be the vessel for every one of my aspirations, or yours. We have to be that vessel ourselves.
I have to hold the vision - for justice and peace in the Middle East, for racial and economic justice in this country. I have to be the change I want to see. Barack is leading but he is also reminding us that in a way he has to follow us. We lead him.
So keep on giving the feedback even when it's not 100% positive. This is a democracy, and no leader is above us. He's a citizen like we are and we must let him know what we think.
What about all the BOYS that don't take careof their kids who NEEDED to hear this. I know this first hand b/c this happened to my children unexpectedly. Now their father is going around with his new wife and stepchildren acting like he is on top of the world but doesn't do a thing for his own biological kids. NO MONEY NO TIME! Why didn't he need to hear this? Again, why would the real men be offended? Why wouldn't they step aside for this message or better yet help spread it to the dead beat dads?????????????????
I understand what you are saying but what about the "father" who is sitting in church with his stepchildren thinking - wow I am amazing etc when he doesn't acknowledge his biological kids? I mean, I get what some are saying about "dirty laundry" and I agree that the good fathers should have been praised and I believe they were but I also believe (though it may not have been the right time or place- I am ambivalent on that issue right now) that the dead beats should never get a free pass! Obama had the platform and he used it and I for one hope the dead beat in my kid's lives was listening! You can't tell him he is not a Christian and I am sure he was sittin in church giving himself praise and glory and there is NO excluse for men like that- Black, White, or other. People have asked if he would speak to Catholics about child molestation etc..well he's not Catholic! I think he could speak to AA's b/c he considers himself one and b/c he has ACTUALLY experienced a dead beat dad and is a great example of how to defeat it (although I hope NO man uses this as an excuse). I have told my son to look at him as an example of a Black male that can make it w/o a father!
Doing that you force some confused Black people to confront the idea of what a politician is supposed to do when s/he speaks before a constituency: tell them what s/he's going to do for them policy-wise and how strongly s/he stands with them and STHU!!
Notice how Obama doesn't say anything about ANY OTHER GROUP taking "personal responsibility" or ANY OTHER GROUP being "complicit in [their] own condition." No wonder why so many Black people are okay with being disrespected. They don't think they deserve the same respect Obama gives EVERY OTHER GROUP.
Black folks voted from Obama in large numbers and, instead of speaking strongly, in the strongest terms and emphasis about what he, the politician, will do for Black folks he talks about something that's not in his job description as a politician.
Now I know white folks and "white" folks on Faux Noise and in the hoe-down bar (well they weren't reading the news so not them) and up in the "conservative" "Think (haha!) tanks" will try to use this as ammo but they'd do that shit anyway and who gives a fuck about them?
Babies having babies is a problem. It's more of a problem for the oppressed. The problem is compounded when the family, even one tied together by a single act, is broken apart by the choice to ditch the mother and child. The real folks with the problems are that mama and baby. Fuck the deadbeat dads. Why the hell do they get defended? You're' old enough to fuck, you're old enough to at least try to take responsibility for your fuckin.
Anyways, some folks doth protest too much, methinks.
But I digress. I am amazed at the level of anger over this.
Did the lot of you who are criticising Senator Obama for his speech actually read or hear it in its entirety? Or did you just hear sound bites?
If you did, I really do not understand how you could say he threw black men under the bus or that he was "calling out all Black men as fathers" as CPL emotively and wrongly asserted. To quote another commenter ... demagoguery really is demagoguery no matter where.
In no way and in no place in that speech did he call out ALL black men as being bad fathers. That is a crass over-simplification worthy of Fox News itself - congrats CPL!
He did call out THOSE black men who ARE bad fathers - it is not the same - at all.
In fact, he praised those brothers who are holding it down as good fathers, raised the example of his father in law as an example.
I saw PTcruiser said that Obama should "have either enough political courage or mother wit to talk about the problem in a more comprehensive and expansive way than simply referring to "personal responsibility"... but he DID speak about in a more expansive way or did you miss that whole bit where he spoke about the need to support those fathers who are doing a good job?
Lemme recap it for you:
"And by the way - it's a responsibility that also extends to Washington. Because if fathers are doing their part; if they're taking our responsibilities seriously to be there for their children, and set high expectations for them, and instill in them a sense of excellence and empathy, then our government should meet them halfway.
We should be making it easier for fathers who make responsible choices and harder for those who avoid them. We should get rid of the financial penalties we impose on married couples right now, and start making sure that every dime of child support goes directly to helping children instead of some bureaucrat. We should reward fathers who pay that child support with job training and job opportunities and a larger Earned Income Tax Credit that can help them pay the bills.
We should help these new families care for their children by expanding maternity and paternity leave, and we should guarantee every worker more paid sick leave so they can stay home to take care of their child without losing their income."
I don't understand why people are seizing only on the parts of his speech where he made criticisms of black fathers and ignoring all the other parts that more than balanced that out.
It seems people think Obama should not DARE point out any flaws of the black community.
And that is something I have noticed about African-Americans - I guess it has to do with being a minority in the USA but there is this pervasive attitude that any black person who publicly criticises any element of black society or culture ... even if it is something that we all abhor ourselves... is a traitor for they have 'embarrassed' the race in front of white people.
Why the hell are we so concerned about white people think of us or worried about putting on a good impression for them even if it's fake? Who the HELL are they that we have to impress them so and care so much about their perception of us? To use some rank Bajan "dem don't stir my cou-cou nor wash my clothes".
Imagine CPL concerned about what the motley crew at Fox News is going to say about black people as a result of this - WHO CARES? Let's focus on what we think of ourselves and how we treat each other - how about that?
Y'all really need to get a grip. But I speak from a different social perspective - thank god I say at times like this.
Whew...anyhow, my other point is that Obama was right to talk about this - but I definitely take the point that Father's Day was definitely not an opportune time to do so. So for those who take issue with the timing - you have a point.
But most people seem to be saying that he should not have said this at all. Actually, some poppet said that Obama does not have the "moral or legal authority" to speak about this. Legal authority? What on earth did you mean when you typed that drivel?
Still, there is a major problem with black fatherhoodn ot just in black America but among black people all over the Western Hemisphere. In the Caribbean, the stats are just as woeful - in my island 60% of children are raised by their mothers alone.
You folks who claim you know far more good fathers than bad ones are either very fortunate or lying. The vast majority of my friends were born to indifferent fathers who paid only token if any attention to them - and I am firmly middle class, went to the best school in my region and have two degrees. But that is HOW IT IS - not talking about it will not solve the problem. Moreover it is insulting to all the children and women suffering because of it to not talk about it - as if our problem does not exist. As if it is ok and we are giving them a pass - because silence is often take to be consent.
Well it is NOT OK! We should not be silent and shut up about it and who better than Obama to speak about it? Out of all the public figures in the US he is best positioned to speak about it having grown up without his black father (which he did mention in his speech CPL- you petty, spiteful creature) having seen the impact of that particularly on his siblings and having taken a decision not to repeat his father's behaviour.
It would be awkward and patronising coming from a white public figure who cannot relate but Obama CAN relate because he has been there.
I am glad he spoke about it.
You brought up a good point- why is it that all the respectable dads are upset? Where are the dead beat dads????? I'll tell ya- still somewhere hiding uder a rock avoiding child support and spending time with their kids to complain!
And how is the truth "pandering"???
Did Barack lie? And who are these people who claim Barack was speaking to all Black men? Why do they get to say that when he did NOT?????? that is mighty confusing.
BTW, I am not part of the Obama "cult" who thinks he can do no wrong however I am confused about well telling the truth and being "right" about dead beat dads is wrong!
Someone in an earlier post said you can't please Black people and I'm starting to think they were right! If the truth hurts your feelings (when he wasn't even referring to you if you are good fathers and of course everyone father who posts here is! :-) As a matter of fact those who post here don't even know a dead beat dad! LOL)
Barack is in the position for people to hear him now- people are more attentive than ever in this historical election- He has the platform but my oh my is it a hard job! If he doesn't use it to reach Black's then he's acting White and Black folks will never respect him. I fear Barack is doomed no matter what he does or where he turns. Whites will always feel he's trying to give Blacks the "hook up" and Blacks will feel that he isn't doing enough!
Against Race Politics
Maybe I'll write about it.
Maybe you should. I mean. I just want to know why the good dads took offense to the part that obviously was not referring to them with NO mention of that part that praised good father's like Michelle's which obviously did refer to them!
Against Race Politics
Maybe it was "lazy" and "cheap" and an over all easy way out but it was the truth. As far as the rest of your post I honestly don't get what you are saying..... I don't get offended when comments don't affect me or are not spoken to me directly. For instance, if a man refers to certain women as "whores" I know he is not referring to me and I cannot speak for those he might be referring to. I mean we have women that do inappropiate things as well as men. In fact, if it had been Mother's Day (and I am a mother) and he had spoken about "dead beat" moms I could not have cared less b/c I do not fit in that category while many women do. My mom was not "dead beat" so I cannot relate personally. So if it doesn't relate to you how can you be offended b/c he wasn't referring to you or the people in your life? I am desperately trying to understand your argument but I just don't...
Oh, I am not trying to be argumentative and I can defintely agree to disagree but I wish to gain persepective. I can understand the "dirty laundry" argument b/c I do have issues with that but the I am offended even though I know you were referring to me argument I don't get.
Against Race Politics
He wasn't pandering to the Black community, he was pandering to the so-called white conservatives who heard him denounce and repudiate ALL Black men and they said - AMEN!
As one of the writers in the post said, he actually is outdoing white folks in demonizing black people to get elected.
If he keeps this up, these Black folks he is taking for granted will stay at home on election day, and let him depend on all these white folks he is sending coded messages. He better stop it, because Black folk know when they are being played.
As somebody mentioned, hopefully, somebody will take him aside and tell him he went too too far.
It was a cheap speech. Sure to receive a few amen's and appreciative head nods by elderly women in elaborate hats who've heard and repeated variations of the same empty cliches their whole lives:
"They're acting like boys". "Any boy can make a baby, but it takes a man to raise one"
...and, it was a familiar speech.
Obama has been taught well by his religious tradition. He said that Rev. Wright would say things from the pulpit regarding male-female relations that were blushworthy(paraphrasing). This was his response when pressed on exactly what offensive things he'd heard in church.
This is part of the AA religious tradition, part preaching, part pornography. Preachers who entertain, outrage, titillate and are the Richard Pryor's of the pulpit. We call it THE TRUTH, but it is only loosely BASED on the truth. Yes, I believe Richard's Aunt did have roaches. I do not believe however, that roaches were the almonds in her salad...if you take my meaning.
Yes, there are men who fail, but certainly not ALL men, and not even MOST men. In this one case, Barack should employ the 50 + 1 strategy. On Father's Day, all sins are forgotton, and we give thanks for the fathers and those who were like fathers...even if they had vaginas while doing so.
My objection is in how the speech made me feel. For the amateur psychologists here who suggest that those who are offended, feel that way because the speech hit home...let me offer another hypothesis:
Perhaps the speech is only offensive to those who have not had the deadbeat-black-man experience. From our perspective, "deadbeat" is an alien concept; therefore, we are repelled by it - it's not a "match".
Now, is that any more, or less offensive to your sensibilities? Or do you appreciate me "telling it" in the grand tradition?
I think that whether or not he was pandering is debatable however I will submit to maybe it was bad timing and maybe it was airing "dirty laundry". I guess I am not totally convinced of the pandering b/c it was the TRUTH. Somehow I can't get over that part. If it were not and I did not feel that some Blacks needed to hear that I would have a problem with it. I think I will forever have a problem with the people being offended by it to whom he was not referring b/c he did reference good fathers so that is that part they should relate to.
With that said, I can see how others might feel it was inappropiate with the EXCEPTION of those who said it offends them b/c they aren't like that and don't know anyone is is. It makes no sense to me. Does that mean if he were in the "proper setting" and speaking at the "proper time" the speech still would have been wrong b/c there are good Black men??? Don't get me wrong my fatehr was a great Black man and father so I am not doubting that. Heck I don't know any pedofiles (at least I don't think I do) but I am certainly offended by R Kelley!
Against Race Politics
Thanks for the reply. Sorry, I had to delete and repost. It is an annoying habit I am powerless to resist.
Maybe it was "lazy" and "cheap" and an over all easy way out but it was the truth.
When you say "truth" are you talking about objective or subjective truth? Barack could have avoided this question by observing Father's Day and simply given thanks to Fathers.
As far as the rest of your post I honestly don't get what you are saying..... I don't get offended when comments don't affect me or are not spoken to me directly. For instance, if a man refers to certain women as "whores" I know he is not referring to me and I cannot speak for those he might be referring to. I mean we have women that do inappropiate things as well as men. In fact, if it had been Mother's Day (and I am a mother) and he had spoken about "dead beat" moms I could not have cared less b/c I do not fit in that category while many women do. My mom was not "dead beat" so I cannot relate personally. So if it doesn't relate to you how can you be offended b/c he wasn't referring to you or the people in your life? I am desperately trying to understand your argument but I just don't...
I am not Japanese or a Jew..nor was I ever a slave. Yet, I am outraged by the Holocaust denier. I can be upset over the idea that Japanese Americans should be stripped of their citizenship rights in a time of war. I was never in chains, but know profoundly that it was wrong. I am offended by the concept that ANY woman could ever be a "whore". I don't make psychological room for the "whore" concept.
Oh, I am not trying to be argumentative and I can defintely agree to disagree but I wish to gain persepective. I can understand the "dirty laundry" argument b/c I do have issues with that but the I am offended even though I know you were referring to me argument I don't get.
On Mother's Day, we don't take the opportunity to confront our Mothers with all the times they've failed. We forget their sins, offer amnesty and acknowledge all the wonderful things she means to us. That is what Sasha and Malia did for their father that very morning. Barack could have taken the lesson in grace and offered the same to his audience.
"He wasn't pandering to the Black community, he was pandering to the so-called white conservatives who heard him denounce and repudiate ALL Black men and they said - AMEN!"
I say this - you are either a fool, a liar or a wanton shit-disturber.
Where in his speech did he denounce and repudiate ALL (your emphasis, not mine) black men?
His exact comment was "too many fathers". Too many is NOT the same as all - this is either stupidity or wilful demagoguery on your part and that of CPL and others and I must say it is REALLY getting to me now.
You are twisting the man's words the same way a Fox News ... creature (can't call them journalists) would. It is appalling to witness.
As for truthseeker, it is baffling to me that your feelings were hurt by this speech.
You claim that the "deadbeat black man experience" is an alien concept to you - I would that I lived in this sanitised black community that you live in. Where is it? Is it somewhere on this side of the Atlantic?
Are you really telling me that even though your own father, grandfather, uncles, brothers were not deadbeats that you have no friends, cousins, schoolmates etc that have experienced such a thing? Considering that the facts are that a MAJORITY of young black people are raised in single-mother homes today, I find this hard to believe.
In fact, I find you insulting and damn rude, feisty and out of order, claiming this is an alien concept. So are you saying the experience of the many black children and women who have experienced this is 'alien'? We are experiencing some unique dysfunction?
So you have no empathy or interest in the experience of black people outside of your own personal circle? Our experience does not matter? The experience of the majority?
Looka, let me finish before I fling two bad words... I gone.
Your examples of the Holocaust etc are comparing apples and oranges as I beleive the TRUTH no matter how you frame it is that SOME Black men don't take of their children. I knew I would get into trouble about the "whore" reference (as the issue you brought up is not the part I was referring to I meant I don't take it personally b/c I am not one) but I think you are still missing my point and I still don't understand yours. I was simply trying to gain perspective but thanks for trying. Have a great afternoon!
Against Race Politics
And if there were only ONE dead beat dad, that is still "too many"!
I agree with you. I guess we are all aliens to some of these people. The nerve of us to know of dead beat dads and to actually think this is a problem. Oh I forgot the real problem is that of the good men, right? Not the alin dead beats out there!
I mean I really wanted someone to genuinely explain the offence here(TO THE NON DEAD BEATS- not the wrong day, dirty laundry crowd b/c I get that!) instead of all the other references but it seems as if no one can or is willing to do it.
Again, "dirty laundry" right place right time arguments aside.
Against Race Politics
His exact comment was "too many fathers".
How many is "too many" according to Barack? Is it 5 percent or 20 percent or .01 percent.... I can't thing or any quantity - except 100% - that would make it appropriate to bash fathers on Father's Day.
As for truthseeker, it is baffling to me that your feelings were hurt by this speech.
I said the speech made me feel something...I didn't say that that "something" I felt was hurt. It was disappointment, regret. I felt the pull of what could have been. I felt that Barack could have risen to grand heights and uplifted his audience, and brought a smile to our tired faces. He could have taken the yoke from our backs on that one day.
Ha, you are pretty funny...I'm not kidding :D. I am feisty and out-of-order...or at least, I try to be at least once per day. Right now, I'm over my quota.
The "alien concept" was a hypothesis equal to the alluded-to one that we're only offended 'cause we know he's talking about us.
Hey, there's no getting into trouble here. We're only wrestling with words and ideas...in a friendly way, I hope.
You have a great afternoon too.
Several weeks ago, for example, Senator Obama made a speech before the American Israeli Political Action Committee in which he, in effect, promised to employ America's blood and treasure to support the Israelis in their continuing efforts to oppress and deny Palestinians their human rights. He did not mention that the Palestinians are living under conditions that are far worse than what black South Africans endured during the reign of apartheid.
Obama talked about the need to prevent Iran from developing nuclear weapons but somehow failed to mention that Israel has 250 nuclear weapons and has refused again and again to sign any non-proliferation treaty or to allow inspectors to examine its nuclear facilities. He has joined the chorus of those who are trying to paint Iran as an aggressor nation when the reality is that Iran has not invaded another nation in more than 250 years! The truth is that Saddam Hussein was our ally and we supported him when he launched an unjustified and illegal invasion against Iran that resulted in the deaths of more than 750,000 Iranians.
Over and over again we are beginning to tell ourselves that Obama's selective truth telling is justified because it is what he needs to do to be elected president. This process of rationalization has now reached the point that many of us will give him a free pass for making a speech that we know in our hearts was a play to appease white conservative Democratic and Independent voters. Black folks were not the intended audience of that speech although we, yes, we, served as the backdrop for his speech.
We served collectively as the backdrop because of what Ralph Ellison called the "peculiar disposition of the eyes" of too many white Americans when they look at us. There were so many other issues that Obama could have addressed through the lens of fatherhood that would have resonated well with people all over this country. What he chose to do was to provide a selected narrow version of the truth about the behavior of some black men.
Obama's speech was a dishonest speech. It was dishonest because it did not spring from the sort of impulses and analysis that causes people to come together in a common cause. It was a dishonest speech because it was divisive and hypocritical, but it was revelatory in that it allowed many of us to get a closer look at Senator Obama. I am not happy with what I am seeing.
Yes, I will vote for him and I will continue to contribute to his campaign. My own interest has moved from wanting to see him elected to doing whatever I can to get George Bush and the Republicans out of office. I do not expect Obama to make too many course changes if he is at the helm of this ship.
He could have taken the yoke from our backs on that one day.
This I understand and also agree with. Still not mad that he didn't but I do understand. Speak it and believe it and it will come to fruition but this fits into the wrong day argument. Still at a loss as to why you would personally be offended. That has been my original question all along.
Things I understand (but still may not agree with)-
wrong day- check
dirty laundry- check
could have given a praise speech- double check
I felt offended even though I knew he was not referring to and he did not say he was referring to me but I will attribute this to him b/c I see fit to no matter the fact that he praised good men and I fit into this category- oh and because I don't know any dead beat dads so obviously they don't exist and if there is only a few it's practically the same as not existing- NO CHECK.
Against Race Politics
Always friendly. My motives were sincere in asking the question of how you were offended by the speech, pandering etc aside b/c no one knows that for sure. I mean I really wanted to know where you were coming from. I wanted to sympathize with you- not argue. I was coming from a place of knowing too many kids w/o fathers. Yes, my father was a great dad! That is precisely why it is heart breaking for me to think of one child who has to miss out on it! I do believe that if there is only ONE (although I know of far more than that) that it is too many! And if O was pandering then I don't think he is the man I thought he was. Even at that, I still think (even if it risked airing our dirty laundry and was pandering)or at least hope that the message is out (not that it hasn't been spread before) and that if it made just ONE man call his estranged child or children and say that he wants to repair his relationship that it was a speech that was well worth it. When I checked my emails the next day, people who had experienced the dead beat syndrome had emailed it to me and felt positive about it. It wasn't until I came here that I realized it was a problem. Having said ALL that, perhaps he should stick with policy etc if he cannot chastise all people (and certainly he cannot do that b/c he cannot relate to all).
Against Race Politics
CHECK!
I can understand if you feel that he is not telling it like it is to all! I do get that and I will say if that is the case (and I'm sure there is at least a small amount of that going on b/c after all it is POLITICS)then he is being quite the politician - the same old usual politician. I do still think he is stuck b/t a rock and a hard place with this issues (same as with the Muslim issue). I mean, there is only so much he can say to Whites(remember the whole clinging to guns and religion-gate)b/f they say he is trying to get even for Blacks or trying to be President of Black America. He can however send surrogates out with the other messages. After all, he is not White, no matter he calls himself biracial or what and there is no way he can speak to Whites about "White issues". No way. He hasn't experienced any and cannot relate. At this point, I don't think he crossed the line with me but I will keep watching. I hate to phrase it like that b/c it sounds like I'm looking to be offended and I'm not.
Against Race Politics
What speech were you folks watching.
Yes, he spoke directly to black men, but at several points in the speech he said "the South Side of Chicago and beyond", which clearly says this was a universal message. What did you want him to say "Yeah, WHITE DUDES need to man up too"?
He also DID talk about the good fathers (ie: Michelle's dad) handling theres, and his own shortcomings as a Dad.
For anyone assuming Fox News will use this as ammo to down black folks, please get a life. As if Fox News has some sterling opinion of Negroes already. This isn't ammo. They have enough.
I do somewhat agree with the point that using Father's Day to speak critically of Fathers seems a bit bassackwards, but it's not like this is the first time he's challenged men (and women) to grow up and raise their own kids. He's mentioned the whole "turn off the TV and video games" bit on nearly every stump speech.
I think anyone who has faults with this speech is either stuck on stupid or just didn't bother watching the whole thing, and instead depended on 20 second soundbites to forcefeed them their opinion.
And isn't that what we're upset with Fox News about in the first place?
My wife. who is black, and I have adopted three African American children, who were abandoned by their mothers and fathers, at a time in our lives when our friends and relatives are kicking back from child rearing and now we are "sorry Negro(s)" who need to step our games up because we don't like Obama's speech?
This is the kind of argument that signals not exhaustion with an issue but the entrance into the discussion (and it is still a discussion) of people who lack the capacity to think. You are not an average brother because an average brother does not insult people as a way to advance his views.
Still at a loss as to why you would personally be offended. That has been my original question all along.
Not "personally" offended any more than I am "personally" offended by slavery(which I did not personally experience, but I find offensive nonetheless) or Sexual assault, or Pedophilia.
ptcruiser,
Brilliant comment! I can feel myself drifting off into existential(?) oblivion...thanks from bringing things back to center.
The slavery example stll doesn't resonate with me b/c it is still different. I take slavery "personally" b/c it was my ancestors and people I can relate to; however a dead beat dad is NOT someone I can relate to or feel sorry for, or feel as if they shouldn't be spoken against b/c they are NOT innocent by-standers if you will as slaves were. I feel it is OK to "lump" yourself in with slaves but NOT a dead beat dad if you were not one- and although you were not personally a slave it is something that (if you are AA) your innocent ancestors experienced due to no fault of their own- just as the CHILDREN of dead beat dads. This is where you continue to lose me. It's still apples and oranges for me.
Against Race Politics
Stop the homophobia now. Sheesh. Which part of "Christian," "progressive," or "liberal" makes that kind of shit okay?
I save my name calling for Fox Noise, and other "pundits" who use whatever words we say to place them in context of where they can lie about African-Americans AS A WHOLE.
So, Carribean Lionness, there probably will never be a time when I write something you don't agree with and I'm okay with it. But, you have engaged in the very disrespect that you denounce elsewhere. But if you don't like what I have to say, you are always free not to respond.
And if you think you didn't engage in name-calling, recheck your first few posts. Unlike you, I fully support freedom of speech, even when I disagree with it, but I will always draw the line at slander, innuendo and flat out lies. All I pointed out was that Obama needs to quit handing the enemy ammunition to use against us. Let me recap:
DAP/Fist Bump - "Terrorist Handshake"
My Wife - "Baby Mama"
Michelle, his wife (an articulate, educated, beautiful, chocolate sista NOT playing MAMMY) - "Angry Black Woman".
We're going to see this from now until after the brotha gets sworn in, and it probably won't stop until his last day in office. While we'd like to believe we should be past racism, the fact remains that there are votes he's not going to get because he's a Brotha, and that's the real. Which is why we need to call out any media outlet engaging in this punditry, and that also includes not handing the enemy any more ammunition that they can use.
It's easy to say "If they weren't talking about you, then it doesn't matter". How many times have you heard something that you knew didn't apply to you, and yet, you felt insulted, whatever? The brothas who responded to Obama's remarks (and yes, not only did I watch the speech, its' been reposted here on this very thread) were interpreting his remarks as if he slung ALL BROTHAS, including the ones holding it down as fathers, under the bus, whether it applied to them or not.
I support Barack Obama, and yet, my training as a political scientist taught me to evaluate and analyze very carefully what's coming out of his mouth, so in the end, if he gets the White House, and he starts engaging in policies that starts giving people heartburn, I, for one, will not be caught off guard, because, if we analyze his speeches, and sift through rhetoric and code words, we will know exactly what the man is telling us he's going to do as POTUS.
No one is asking him to pay attention only to the concerns of African-Americans; yet, his reluctance to discuss issues pertaining to African-American communities, like the issue of Black Fathers (or their absence) is making me very nervous in the sense that once he's sworn in, and nothing changes in the African-American community like it was supposed to do in the movie "Rufus Jones for President" a good deal of his Black supporters are going to be highly disappointed, even though they say they won't be.
I need to remind you that once he's elected (and I believe he will beat the shyt out of McCain in the Fall), Obama will have very little room for error and very little time to make an impact (usually, POTUS don't get to do things to make significant impacts until their second term, if they see one) - so from Day One, he's already campaigning for the second term by making sure he lays a foundation for re-election. That means not pissing off the real benefactors that got him there.
I like the political discussions here on this blog, but I have never engaged in calling any commenter on here names, even if I disagree with them. The fact that CL prefers to call me names as opposed to engaging in real discussion, well, who's really the whiney, immature one on this board?
Oh, and CL - long posts like yours suggests you should get your own blog because it appears you have a lot to say. Think about it.
Are you a Christian? Then who are you to judge me? Even if you are a Christian, the Bible is really clear "Judge not, lest ye be judged."
If I've offended you with my saltiness, and it gets you off track as a Christian, I do apologize, because that I take very seriously.
However, you are dealing with an individual who has been highly abused by leaders and whatnot in the Church, in Jesus' name and right now, I'm finding my way back to Jesus in a way that works for me. Comments like yours, judging me on whether or not I'm a Christian, sent me out of the church.
And "bigoted pansies"? Honestly, there's no one on this board more gay-friendly than me, because when the "Christians" were tearing down a sista, kicking her out of jobs, setting her up for failure, in Jesus' name, it was gays and lesbians who gave me a second chance. The pansies remark is referencing "cowards" although in hindsight, I guess it could be conveyed towards gay people, so I apologize if anyone took it as such.
Now, as Martin Lawrence would say, "RUNTELLDAT."
Well, I'm glad that you clarified your use of the word "pansies" but cowardly or some other synonym would probably work better in the future.
NOT TO BE ARGUMENTATIVE (and I certainly haven't taken place in name calling and never do)and I am a Christian...I understand all the points made by people who are against the speech EXCEPT the He threw all Black men under the bus comment. Oh before I get into that as far as Glen Ford comment..why is it offensive to call a dead beat a boy? Hmmm maybe it's not the most Christian thing to call him but it is certainly one of the tamer names that come to mind! They don't deserve respect for not fulfulling their responsibilities. Now back to my original question, even though Obama gave praise to good fathers and even mentioned non Southside dead beat dads on whose authority do you have to assign his comments to all Black men even though he didn't? And I do ask this respectfully b/c after all of the posting I still don't understand why all Black men should be offended. Again, I understand the other points- whether I agree with them or not or shoot let's just say he was wrong on all other counts I really would like to be able to understand this particular point even if I don't agree.
Against Race Politics
One more thing, CPL..you asked how many times others have been offended by something someone said when they were not speaking to them. That's different...Yes I am offended by crimes etc that affected other people b/c I could have been an innocent victim but a
DEAD BEAT DAD is not an innocent victim or someone that I can sypathize with. I said this earlier, it's different when to say you were hurt or offended by slavery when we were not a part of it ALL Americans should be but who should be hurt FOR a dead beat dad??? That particular point to me is still apples and oranges. Yes I can empathize with a Catholic that has been molested even though I am not Catholic and ahve never been molested, yes I am heartbroken about slavery and wish my ancestors had never been made to take part in it but no I can't feel sympathy for a dead beat dad. I just can't and I see no reason to group myself into this category as I can with other INNOCENT or victimized people. I mean I could get it if BO lied or maybe if someone could tell me why non deadbeats feel group with deadbeats.....
Anonymous -
I follow current events fairly closely and I don't recall any developing crisis or current controversy regarding black fathers failing to address their responsibilities. To go further, I certainly was not aware that it had become an issue in this presidential election cycle. I also did not see it raised during the Democratic or Republican primaries.
Obama and his advisors decided to raise this issue on Fathers' Day because he wanted to distinguish himself from the so-called liberal orthodoxy of the Democratic Party as defined by political conservatives and disaffected white Reagan Democrats (despite the fact that these folks began getting their hats in 1968). I know a large number of liberal Democrats, many of them black, and I have never met one who believes that it is okay for black fathers to shirk their parental responsibilities.
This is an issue that Obama and his advisors have publicized as a way to improve his chances of being elected by polishing his image as someone who will call black folks and liberals out on their b.s. I will continue to support his candidacy and contribute money but his stance is as phony as a three dollar bill.
Obama is not running for the presidency of Black America. The black electorate has no such position in its ranks and, given his position on the Palestinians and other issues, he does not, in my opinion, occupy high enough moral ground to publicly rebuke any group of black fathers about their problems and shortcomings. I remain firm in my conviction that he should have used Fathers Day at Apostolic to weave and reinforce black fathers into the fabric of American society. He did not do so.
Let me be clear about something else that bothers me about Obama speech: It was presumptuous because it assumes that because the black electorate has given him its political support we have also granted him the right to serve as our moral and ethical gatekeeper. Maybe some, if not many, of us have granted him this latitude but my family and I have not.
Politicians and comedians making speeches about irresponsible black men has not produced one iota of change in the behavior of these men. Arguing that these politicians and entertainers are speaking the "truth" implies that black folks are not already aware of these "truths" and, like sheep, need these individuals to lead them to gates of wisdom. If Obama wants to play the role of a truthteller, then he will have to play that role in every venue he enters. Authentic prophetic voices always refuse to be silenced, which is why they do not run for political office.
I did say that I understood your point! It was the BO was dismissing all Black men point that I didn't understand. And I NEVER said dead beat dads was a new problem so I don't know what gave you that impression. I simply said it was the truth and valid...I wasn't trying to debate anything with you..whether it was the proper time, place or if he was pandering is a matter of opinion and far be it from me to try to change someone else's especially when I am ambivalent on those particular points. Again, I stated that he told the truth and for that I don't get it when some say they are offended when they were not the intended "audience". The praise was for them. Again, as far as your other points my intention was only to say that I do UNDERSTAND what you are expressing not to be antagonistic.
Against Race Politics (not anonymous)
Go easy.
He goes in front of a black crowd and repudiates them for not having values.
Then he runs an ad talking about how his white grandparents and mother taught him the values that he knows and to rely on himself and not make "excuses". So he confirms this idea that whites have values which is why he has them and blacks do not? That he is who he is because of his white upbringing. Many whites think that and he is giving credence to it.
Please tell me if you think that I am looking too much into this but that is how it hit me and it made me crinch.
The wording and juxtapositioning in that add was odd and the wording...I could not help but think of this.
I could care less how many times he made a similar speech in the past, it was not needed now especially with the way that it would be perceived.
I guess Obama is doing the i'm not like them act.
Whatever...like I expected anything different.
"Let me be clear about something else that bothers me about Obama speech: It was presumptuous because it assumes that because the black electorate has given him its political support we have also granted him the right to serve as our moral and ethical gatekeeper."
That is exactly my issue.
While it did seem like he was ragging on absentee black fathers (because he was) he also made a point of uplifting his father in law. A black man who was there 100% for his family. He used him as an example of what fatherhood should be.
I suppose I was looking at this speech as someone who has seen what triflin' "baby daddies" have done young women and the kids. This is not to say I don't know some triflin' mothers because I do.
I also think that while the speech could be viewed as a little harsh, it was mostly positive. It wasn't just about black fathers but about we as America have lowered our standards.
Still, I had to laugh when he referenced the Chris Rock joke. While I show my father everyday including Father's Day, being a father to your kid is something that you are supposed to do. Same goes for women.
Take a valium and calm down. By your moniker alone you identify yourself as from the Caribbean in apparently and obviously your perception of the African-American experience in THIS country is probably seen in a different prism from mine.
Saying that I will say this. I thought about whether to respond to your vile, and dare say, overly-sensitive response to a valid criticism of Barack Obama. He is not God. He is man who has and will continue to make mental mistakes when addressing not only this issue which was influenced by his upbringing by white parents which I dare say skewed even if unconsciously his views regarding black men and what he heard growing up.
The attitudes of many in the Carribbean regarding African Americans in this country is another topic that should be explored, which i will not go into here, but suffice it to say, I in my humble attempts to remain relevant, offering MY opinion of this speech and any other actions taken by Barack Obama which my affect my ability to live in this country will not stop, even with the vitrolic, unnecessary name-calling. I am not a liar because I offer a difference of opinion. He did state Black men and did reference some as boys. Now where does that come from.
On a day when we should be cherishing the outstanding contributions of fathers to their families, this was not the place or time.
To compare my comments to Fox News now that is truly an insult as well as offensive. Check yourself before posting, you are embarassing yourself.
Now had you called them on their attempts to villify an entire group, you would then be labeled, angry, outspoken, radical, militant, pick one. I am sure that most posters to this blog at one time or another been called one of those names for standing up and being included in the maligned group.
So I would be very careful about being proud or special when some of these people say to you, "Oh I wasn't talking about you."
That was not a compliment.
"The attitudes of many in the Carribbean regarding African Americans in this country is another topic that should be explored, which i will not go into here"
My family is from the Caribbean and I hear you with that. I made a concious effort to break out of that narrow-minded and prejudice thinking. In my family to call someone a "black american" was to an insult. I never understood that and I was always bothered by it. I will discuss it from an inside perspective when I get the chance.
"Not You Average Womanist"-
"I actually liked the speech. When he said "boys", I wasn't thinking of black men but the "boys" that are now fathering children and not doing a damned thing for them. And when you know you got kids you don't take care of, I can't consider you a man"
Obama was refering to black men and everybody knows that. If he did not slap a race on it and continued his platform of being race-neutral then people would not have a problem with what he said. I grew up with a cross section of people. I knew of men of all races who dropped the ball when it came to fatherhood. In this country despite the disportionate amount of single parent households in the black community. There are nearly five times as many white single family households however it is a black issue. In divorce, children often slip through the cracks of their parents bitter break. This country as a big divorce rate. If Obama cares about families, he should have made this an american conversation. Not a black one.
"While it did seem like he was ragging on absentee black fathers (because he was) he also made a point of uplifting his father in law. A black man who was there 100% for his family. He used him as an example of what fatherhood should be."
You went ahead to contradict your inital assertion. He was speaking solely to black men. There are countless black men, millions who do this every day. They are constantly overshadowed and I am sick of that. His father-in-law is far from the only.
"I suppose I was looking at this speech as someone who has seen what triflin' "baby daddies" have done young women and the kids. This is not to say I don't know some triflin' mothers because I do. "
That is because the young women and trifflin "baby daddy" made the wrong decision at the wrong time to have a child. They are not in a committed relationship so what is the likely hood of them being committed to the child. This happens in all communities. You have to know the right time. My mother had me when she was 32 and my sister when she was 34. My parents were married and waited for the right time. When their finances were straight and they had well-paying jobs is when they decided to have kids. I also want to say that many then go onto get divorced which causes issues in this respect. I have a friend (she is white) who hasn't seen her father since her parents divorced. It has been 10 years now.
" also think that while the speech could be viewed as a little harsh, it was mostly positive. It wasn't just about black fathers but about we as America have lowered our standards."
I was about black fathers. You contradicted yourself again in that regard.This is why the black blogs are talking about it. When whites talk about Obama's speech, they talk about black fathers and black men exclusively because even if you are bling and dumb, you got who he was speaking about.
"Still, I had to laugh when he referenced the Chris Rock joke. While I show my father everyday including Father's Day, being a father to your kid is something that you are supposed to do. Same goes for women."
I happened to find that to be the most offensive part especially with the jail reference.
It is father's day people celebrate all that there father has done...hello...that is the point of the holiday.
Hypocrisy is blinding because when you spin so much...you get dizzy.
Also, people here still don't get why many black people did not care for the speech in the way it was presented and the time it was presented.
You guys are thinking in very small and limited terms...continue though.
I was shocked when I cam on this message board and saw people here who are so adament about their support actually upset! I was shocked. Each and everytime Obama makes a slight, more blacks and others like Leila and my uncle wake up.
Leila,
My uncle is from Jordan. He feels the same way you do especially after the speech at the AIPAC. He told me just an hour ago that he will still support Barack but the magic is gone.
I felt that way over the whole Dr. Wright thing. I was so crazy about Barack and his candidacy. After that whole thing, I look at some of what he says differently. I also cannot help but feel like the magic too is gone for me.
I think that this is for the better. You would not want to be so excited and then get let down so hard. He is a politican and this country is not easy. I am a bit more rational now. I have no problem giving him critique when it is deserved.
It is hard for me to believe in change.
As I say, I like him and I will support him, I also understand the tight rope that he is walking. I don't kick people when they are in that position but I have to make sure that he is not kicking us.