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In this beginning Obama did stand by Wright.
WRB, didn't you insist that Susan Taylor owned and sold Essence (years after she'd left the magazine in fact) despite the fact that like 5 people corrected you (that she never owned it), but you still insisted on making your point?
Your point about gays was made some time ago yet you two keep insisting on inserting it into every thread and comment section related to gays. Why do you feel the need for so much attention?
You want to silence any who disagree with you which is why you continue to carp about this.
I have said all that needs to be said and people can look up our profiles to read all comments.
I will not be silenced and will continue to be actively engaged in matters that are most important to the black community and call it as I see it. The biggest problems Black people face are other Black racist/self-hating/dogmatically selectively religious people.
You are free to disagree but as as long as you continue your mantra of "I'm Just Quoting Scripture" without taking ANY RESPONSIBILITY you are not adding anything to efforts of empowerment or personal responsibility that Black people in the US are going to need if they are to survive.
Obama will not be 'saving' Black people if it means angering whites to secure his Administration. We are our own worst enemies.
http://snipurl.com/9362c
Now as far as
Heartsandflowers writes:
"You continue to engage in dissent under cloak of religious choices that are yours and yours alone. You can only speak for yourself - not for others"
Um, who in the world are you presuming anyone is speaking for other than themselves. Do you think you speak for a group or others..is that why you are laboring under false assumptions?
While it is true that every person who worships God is not a Christian...for you to say this:
"Every PERSON WHO CLAIMS TO BE CHRISTIAN DOES NOT WORSHIP GOD. "
Means you have no grasp of the Christian religion and perhaps that accounts for your utterally defensive responses which are not making any sense. You are engaging in attacking people perhaps becasue you simply do not understand Christianity as a religion. Cause your statements are not making sense. For the record all Christians do worship God.
HAF says:
"Your point was made some time ago yet you two keep insisting on inserting it into every thread and comment section related to gays."
Why do you make up stuff. The thread topic determines what is stated. You get to scroll past it, if you don't want to read it. If someone links to the topic on a thread, it is discussed. A very simply thing. The daily threads say, drop the links, debate etc. Are you under some other understanding?
"You want to silence any who disagree with you which is why you continue to carp about this. "
huh? where are you getting these out of left field statements. Geez.
I do not try to silence anyone. I welcome the debate and discussion. So again you are coming up with blatantly false commentary. No one is carping other than you. There are many many people on the site who agree with your views and in fact, mine voice is a minority on the site. Most everyone on the site supports gay marriage like you. So, you are in no way being silenced.
then you say:
"You are free to disagree but as as long as you continue your mantra of "I'm Just Quoting Scripture" without taking ANY RESPONSIBILITY you are not adding anything to efforts of empowerment or personal responsibility that Black people in the US are going to need if they are to survive."
Heartsandflowers, no one who posts has to have your objective of empowering anything or anyone nor do they need to take any responsibility for your need to do so. Those are your beliefs and you are entitled to them...just don't try to hijack a thread on that premise cause it is not the topic nor the goal of the discussion.
It seems you are your own worst enemy with your assumptions, conjecture and speculations on what others intent, motivations and objectives are. Try not to project those onto other posters and you may find that no one is aiming anything at you personally or carping as you have with other posters.
Merry Christmas!
It seems they agree on that issue.
So, let's move this discussion to another level. Beyond the gay hysteria and focus on what Obama is doing here and how it is a powerful political move.
Something else to know about why folks respect Rick Warren.
He's dedicated a lot of life and resources to helping the poor and the sick. He's donated 90% of his book royalties. He paid back his church for the last 25 years of his minister's salary. He's definately conservative and on the right, but he's hardly extreme.
Warren is a leader of the evangelical movement where the focus is on the poor, AIDS, global warming. Taking the focus away from abortions, gay marriage within the evangelical community. On these issues, the evangelical community is more in tune with the Democrats and Obama . This leadership is what I think Obama is trying to gain from Warren within his community and I think that he is advancing the poor and middle class agenda by doing so
.All those people demanding respect need to open up their hearts and be as tolerant of Warren as they want others to be of them.
Obama has a plan. His plan is to advance the cause of the poor and the middle class. He is a brilliant strategist and he realizes that the right and the capitalists made an unholy alliance with the evangelicals to gain political power. The evangelicals have more in common with Democrats adn Obama intends to create a solidarity of leadership on those issues and Democrats will be in power for decades to come.
This will empower the masses and bring great hope and advancement to our country.
Obama is going to effectively break the GOP grip on the evangelical right.
He is a master ...sit back and watch him work on our COMMON INTERESTS which will lift us all up.
At this point in the year...can't you appreciate the real beauty of this!!
With that said. I'm looking forward to Jan. 20th 2009 and NO ONE will steal my joy.
It was the National Press Club. Remember, the Moyers interview went fine. So did the speech in Detroit. It was the National Press Club that was it.
Tell it!
I know it's tradition. I'm just saying...maybe that could change someday soon. And as long as I'm wishing, I wish that g*d would be taken out of the pledge of allegiance. We don't have to pushback against heathen commies anymore.
As Obama so eloquently explained, we cannot make changes in the law based on religion. If you feel strongly about an issue it must have a rational secular basis to even be considered for governmental policy or legislation. Your argument for it can not be based on religious tenets rather it must have reasoning without religious beliefs.
There is no rational secular basis for denying marriage equality.
Warren is allowed as a citizen along with all his parishoners to mount any campaign they choose about an issue, just as the catholic church does on abortion. Tax exempt status does not say the members of a church cannot agree to become politically active on an issue. Tax exempt status is conferred because the government has no right to regulate religion. We are a religious free country and I am certain you know the history of that and why.
While you do not believe there is a secular basis for opposing same gender marriage, many others disagree.
Most disagree on the basis of family and that not being a model that society wants to encourage. The institution of marriage was granted benefits by the state and government as an incentive for them to relinquish the rights they had to the INDIVIDUAL pursuit of happiness and liberty. Marriage is viewed by the state as a constraint on sexual conduct and personal liberty.
Same gender sex marriage offers no benefit to the government in terms of a role model the vast majority of society want to perpetuate and same gender marriages are based on anything but the relinquishing of individual personal pursuit of happiness. Rather it is reveling in the individual sexual desire of the partnership as it is the sexual conduct of the individual that is claimed as their commonality that warrants them being a special interest group.
That is the secular basis that many oppose same gender sex.
There is no such thing as equality from a secular viewpoint as all individuals in the society are free to marry the opposite gender. Not to do so is their choice and marrying the same gender does not benefit the state.
Anyway, I wish you and yours a joyous Christmas.
I wish you a blessed Christmas as well Lavender...hope that you have wonderful memories to treasure for years to come and that your family is blessed with all the joy the season brings
Merry Christmas!!
Posts like this is why I've come to Love you!
"Christian ministers are called to preach the word of God without compromise. I haven't yet read teachings in the bible that are at all ambiguous about sexuality. So, Rick Warren or any other preacher is not supposed to avoid the issue simply because it's controversial. The stand he takes is actually a mainline Christian view. They are also supposed to be careful not to lead others into activity which will bring about judgment for them. So, be mindful that when a pastor takes a hardline view, especially one that doesn't win him favor, he might just be doing it because he's been convicted by God to take the position and further he might just be doing it because he cares more about peoples' salvation than whether they like him."
You make a valid point, but then this puts the argument back on the church and the bible and I don't think anybody wants to go there. If a pastor says that homosexuality is a sin b/c that's what's in the bible, he is deemed a bigot. Don't be mad at him, he's just the messenger. Be mad at the message. LOL. I think I should have left that alone.
Oh yeah, about Rick Warren and Jeremiah Wright. Strawberries and bananas (I'm sick of saying apples and oranges) and two VERY different sets of cicumstances. Unless Rick Warren holds a conference and starts saying stuff like, "Straight people clap like this, y'all..... And gay people clap like this y'all."
I think he'll be okay to give a prayer. Which is what an invocation is right? A prayer? I may need to go look that up again.
Yet, you're nailing it to the wall!
caught you..
.understanding the messenger ain't the message will get you in serious trouble around here!!!
lol lol....
And it's also funny how nobody seems to quote Jesus - who by the way said not one word about homosexuality - but that goes against this never-ending argument, huh?
You can follow a list of do's and don'ts which are bound to be broken and becomes the sole focus of being "religious" and has nothing to do with loving God but about following dogma. Or you can have a moral compass and "love your neighbor as yourself".
Notice not one word about everybody doing the same thing, acting the same way, but loving people who tend to be hateful and judgmental.
Black people had better remember all of this religious grandstanding and fake moralizing can be turned on a dime against us as it has been in the past, like when you couldn't argue with white people about why enslaving our ancestors was written in the Bible too.
The topic is christianity and homosexuality. That means that religion will be discussed. It does not mean that posters should be attacked under the guise of 'scrutiny' It does mean that you should be able to engage in the discourse by knowing what religion says about homosexuality.
No one has to meet your scrutiny or personal criteria. Rather, the topic is to be discussed. That does not require you challenging posters at all. If you choose to counter an assertion it should focus on religion or homosexuality not the poster.
As soulsista said this hits some PERSONAL nerve of yours which is not at ALL the topic. No one is telling YOU how to live your life.
What folks are doing is saying any individual homosexual or not who chooses not to follow the Christian tenet should not try and attack the church or the tenets of the religion as a means to demand any rights.
Warren is right as a Christian who beliefs in those tenets to respond as he has. In fact, under the tenets of the religion he is obligated to respond in that manner.
And all anyone here has done is point that out and correlate it with the hypocrisy of homosexuals who want to claim the faith but yet reject it's tenets, because they do not want to be accountable for their sinful ways as defined by Christianity.
Jesus is God! Whatever the Father said, Jesus said.
God The Father
God The Son
God The Holy Spirit
All are one. Neither contradicts the other.
Jesus stated in John 10:30....I and my Father are one!
We're not under the Law. We have a new Covenant. Jesus was the way because there was no other way to redemption. Jesus was the sacrificial lamb of God.
God's Word is not dependent on whether one believes or not.
Yes, you're so right about God having compassion. He does. Not only that, but He is abundant in Mercy and Forgiveness. If we confess our sins & repent.... He forgives sin!
I am only quoting God's Word. I am not above anyone. I'm certainly not perfect.....and a long way from being perfect. Nor will I be until I meet my Heavenly Father. I sin. This is why I confess my sin before God and ask for forgiveness.
If I am breaking any rules, then I expect the Moderators will tell me.Until then, I have as much right to post on this board as you do.
I never said it or expected it. It's called a debate. Did not Rikyrah state in the open thread...."Drop those links. Engage in debate. Give us trivia and gossip too".
You state your opinions as facts.
They're not my opinions. My opinions don't matter. Opinions are like a nose...everyone has one.
I don't have my own purpose or an agenda on this board. I am here for debate & discussion. I've been here long before CPL became a Moderator and I haven't noticed where any Moderator said I was breaking the rule by debating an issue just because you don't like or agree to what I say.
I quote what the Scripture says about homosexuality...period!
It is God's Word...Not mine!
When the opportunity arises to discuss actions of anyone else, I still can only quote what the Scripture says.
replies
Justice!
I'm glad that Wright was thrown under the bus. During the Civil Rights era, Black female suffering had to take a backseat for racial equality to be realized. When pioneers like Diane Nash, Ella Baker, and Fannie Lou Hamer offered honest critiques of the sexual oppression within the movement, male leaders explicitly told them that the movement "wasn't about them."
Well, the tied has certainly turned and now it is the Black community that has told Jeremiah Wright, Jesse Jackson, Andrew Young, Tavis Smiley and anyone that dare to utter a single word in criticism of Barack and Michelle Obama that this election -- this moment -- "wasn't about them," and proceeded to publicly severed their ties to these, ahem, "leaders."
This is too funny. I just wrote a long post about this.
Obama said over and over during is campiagn that their was a fierce urgency of now and whats the other one, "not this time" however he has no problem with the fierce urgency of later and saying "not this time" to black people.
Also, putting those four men all lumped together, in the same sentence tells me that you know little to nothing outside of what the white mainstream media has told your docile behind.
It is clear that you can rant, but it seems that your reading comprehension could use a little work. If you re-read my post you'd clearly see that I denounce and reject sexual oppression in the Black community. Now the manner in which I organized my post may be a little above your associate's degree from whatever technical college or trade school that you attended, but I have a pesky habit of assuming that JJP readers are reasonably intelligent and would "get it." However, you helped me to realize that there are some that are less cerebral. So in the spirit of fairness, let me dilute my post and make it easier for you to read and digest:
See Wright. See Wright make a fool of himself at the National Press Club. See Obama say that Wright made him sad. See Black people say that Wright made them sad and put him on timeout. See Civil Rights leaders make Black women be quiet "for the sake of the movement." See Soulsistah02 very sad about Black women going to the timeout corner. See Soulsistah02 happy now because Black men are being put in the timeout corner so that Black people can help Mr. Barack and Ms. Michelle go to the White House.
If the above explanation is still too intellectually rigorous, I'll purchase the coloring book for you.
And that would have been wonderful. Because he could have shared a side of PEO that he uniquely was privvy too.
Instead, he discredited himself as a whacko, by that national press club performance.
But I got tell you, I felt Wrights angst and need to slaaap those folks back hard. It was real crafty how he told all the black folks to come at 3pm knowing they would come late and then tell the press to come at 4pm. Which meant that the white press was all sitting in the balcony! And the blacks were on the floor of the audience.
That had to be a real motivating vision for a man who grew up in the segregation era, where black folks could only sit in the balcony and I think it fueled his performance, just the irony of his having made those white folks sit in the balcony. Every time Wright looked out at that it fired him up more
So, I can't hate on Wright knowing what all he lived through coming home from war and being treated like shyt after putting his life on the line for America and furthermore the man is brilliant and what he could aspire to achieve was just ridiculous in terms of the limitations.
Wright wasn't right, but I am not mad at him in terms of American history. I was pissed at the political consequences he was capable of if he had derailed Obama's bid for the nomination. But Obama is President and I can forgive Wright is moment of insanity after they beat up on his good name with those looped tapes.
*sighs heavily*
Special education teacher is not my vocation, and I choose not to make it one tonight. If you want to stew in your own ignorance, then by all means do so. I'm done.
Warren represents many of the folks that did not vote for Obama--but these are US citizens as well, and I think Obama takes seriously the notion that he will be president of all the people in the US.
Also, this is excellent politics--and, aside from being inclined toward social justice, Obama is an adept politician. He plays the game well.
With the problems that this nation faces, it only makes sense that Obama try to establish good will so that he can maximize his political capital.
Now, if Obama invited David Duke, then I would be nervous. Warren seems pretty harmless. For sure, he is a bit of a ham and an opprotunist, but I think he genuinely wishes good will toward most everyone.
This is a safe move by Obama, and it will pay back huge dividends down the road.
And that's the problem, because he's NOT harmless.
I couldn't put my finger on it but the part about Rev. Wright being "a bit more self aggrandizing than he should" is just it. Some people fail to understand the powerful impact of Obama having someone like Rev. Wright by his side for this new adventure . I think Obama and many in Chicago believed that would be the case in 2007 – the case that Wright would be with him all the way. Knowing how bad the country is screwed up right now, who among us would not want our pastor’s blessing before heading into the White House? (oh, please get the oil and lay hands on me)
It saddens me that our first black president will not have his black pastor stand next to him at the inauguration. Whose fault is it? I don’t care. Neither Rev. Jackson nor Rev. Wright will have that honor and it’s just sad…
Especially Wright, as he has attended to more Presidents than any ministerin history. He was at LBJ's bedside when he had surgery, he was in the Rose Garden with Reagan when he & Jesse brought back RonGoodman from Syria and he was with Clinton when he had everyone at the WH to pray on his stupid oval office shenanigans. So, it would have been a real feather for Wright to swear in the first AA President.
It is such a sad thing that the man who Obama has shared the most spiritual fellowship with will not be there after marrying him and christening his girls. Really sad. I am sure Michelle misses Wright too.
Our people our people and the price of the struggle.
Hate the sin.
Love the sinner.
Now that he's scrubbing his web sites for obvious animus he's being neutralized by Obama as well. Another nice Ninja move on Obama's part to take the venom out of a snake!
He walks the talk.
In all fairness, whoever President ELECT Obama picked for the inaguation program was going to be a problem. Why? Because everyone in America can put input regarding their opinion into an insignificant issue such as a 2 minute prayer. The true star of the day will be the President Elect who happens to be the only president in American history who has openly acknowledged himself to be BLACK and the only president in America history who received such a historical number of ELECTORAL votes.
The country has REAL issues: the economy, education, the wars, home foreclosure. I personally do not care about the opinions of Rev. Warren or Rev. Wright. Americans place too much emphasize on pastors who are in the BUSINESS of ministry versus those who are in the MINISTRY of taking care of the people's business.
Yes, you can....LOL
Now if you run over to Graham's site, his views don't differ that much from Rick Warren's...actually search "A Federal Marriage Amendment" and it pretty much sums up their postions.
Were there any protest at the inaugurations of Clinton in 1993 or 1996?....I don't recall any myself.
And yet under Clinton's presidency, policies like DADT and the Defense of Marriage Act (1996) were enacted.
What I find ironic is that in the Gay Rights battleground state of California, HRC cruised to a primary victory over Obama. Now I know Hillary is not her husband, but let's be honest, she ran off of his legacy and platform. Was the LGBT community screaming to the top of their lungs earlier this year that another Clinton could not possibly preside ove this country again, especially after policies were enacted under Bill Clinton that harmed them......Because honestly I don't recall that outrage either.
I am not writing this as an excuse for the Warren decision...nor arguing for or against.
I am just wondering is a double standard being applied to Obama than it was for Obama or any other Democratic leader.
BTW, those who are solidly against Warren and are highly disgusted with Obama....I am interested in knowing did you support and vote for Bill Clinton during his two terms....and if so, does that make you a hypocrite?
The New Negro Rule/Double-Standard is still in FULL M_THAF_CKIN AFFECT...
It's should be called subliminal racism. Doesnt' mean you are a racist, but you can do racist things without knowing them. lol. You raise a very valid point.
The other things is your statement "And in case y’all forgot, I also said I would be the first to get in Obama’s ass when I see something like this." This is uncalled for. Obama has stated that there will be times when we disagree with him and for some this may be it, but we need to be patient and learn to pick our fights.
"I would be the first to get in Obama's ass." lol. Please . . . Who are you? lol )Not trying to be super offensive, but this is amazing...
Please "get in Obama's ass" about something that's worth the fight. I agree with Politicalmusic, the other black civil rights pastor is not for gay marriage either, no one is saying anything about him. If you want to rock the Obama is my president shirts, if you want to claim this year, we all know its going to be very difficult for our brother . . . don't be so quick and disloyal to jump ship over bull-ish . . . this is a calculated move on Obama's part. You all know that WE are scrutinized twice as hard and have to work 2 times harder - this is no different for the POTUS.
Just like black people couldn't get Obama elected without broad white support, we surely will need some anti-gay support to move the country forward with a more progressive agenda.
I MEAN JUST TWO YEAR AGO IT WOULD HAVE BEEN POLITICAL SUICIDE TO SAY GAY FOLKS DESERVE EQUAL RIGHTS, HOSPITAL TREATMENT, ETC. There HAS been progress.
And if you want to bar everyone who things homosexuality is a sin, then you have depleted about 99% despite what are progressive circles may believe.
I respect people's right to protest. As a matter of fact, those of you who will be on the Mall, why don't u just turn your backs toward the podium when Warren speaks and just be happy :-) Barney Frank and Rachel Maddow can take a bathroom break during the invocation.
I regret that there's so much negative energy (although rightfully) being generated as we lead up to one of the most historic events in this country's history. Want to blame it on Barack? Cool, do that--but can we please not let this detract from the main event?
Some folks go to church to hear the singing. Others go to church to hear the preaching. But we must never forget that there is only one "Star" of this show and the main attraction is Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ is the Superstar!
-Webb's Pastor
-I am looking forward to seeing Barack Hussein Obama being sworn in as the 44th President of the United States of America.
Fuck Rick Warren.
Rick Warren will not be stealing my joy come January 20th, 12 Noon!
Joy, Joy! G_d's Great Joy!
Joy, Joy, down in my soul!
Sweet, beautiful, soul saving joy,
Oh, joy, joy, in my soul!
I will be in the rapture zone and no one will STEAL my JOY
Either!!
I'll be damned if I let that fat s.o.b. ruin this inauguration for me! Oh no, I don't think so. NOTHING and NO ONE will ruin this for me. Those who ARE letting him ruin it for them..well that's their choice, and make no mistake people it is a choice! Your sexuality is not a choice....how you react to a preacher giving a two minute invocation...IS a choice.
This is over scrutinized. During the campaign, the left criticized him for not attacking, for being too moderate, for pandering to the right . . . he proved us all wrong by winning . . . let the man do his job. Let him appoint folks and build unity the best way that he can b/c the country is hurting.
Rick Warren is not over any policy, he is not in the administration - therefore I don't feel as if my lifestyle is in danger, he isn't proposing to federalize prop 8.
If we really want to advance gay rights, it does not bode well by attacking the church, black voter, or Obama - quite the contrary - you will contribute to divisiveness and lose precisely the progress of this year and divide the left.
Let's keep it real: Rick Warren is a pastor that holds THE SAME VIEWS as about 95% of other Christian pastors in the country if we want to be intellectually honest.
This is a non-issue and simply a symbolic gesture by Obama. Warren is taking heat from the right wingers too. We on the left need to understand that we don't have a monopoly on diversity, diversity is also ideology. . . which means it's not always left. It doesn't mean if someone is conservative that they just don't get it. It means that, yes, we have to have tolerance for what we deem intolerant. Now OF COURSE, IF HE APPOINTED WARREN OVER SOME SORT OF POLICY, THIS IS ENTIRELY DIFFERENT STORY.
Let's move forward and stop worrying about issues like who is praying at the inauguration. Our country is in great peril and we need unity now more than ever.
lol
There is good discussion going on here . . . I don't agree with the post, but there are a lot of great points discussed.
Obama knows this. If he wants to come to white America's party he has to dance to white America's tune.
So, I wouldn't expect Obama to throw Rick Warren under the bus. Obama's only going to throw Warren under the bus if enough white Americans get upset about it and right now the only people upset about it are gays and those who are gay friendly.
You are as invisible within the gay community as you are as a black person in the larger community.
So you get doubly ignored...just like women who are black don't count to the feminist. We get doubly ignored too.
White ENTITLED feminist don't want to deal with the complexity of our blackness and white ENTITLED gays don't want to deal with the complexity of your blackness when it comes to the gay political agenda EITHER. You are invisible to their political goals. The whiteentitlement they have from the larger society made them determine long ago that if they dared touch the blackness issue they would never achieve their goals so they blow you off and ignore you!! INTENTIONALLY, DELIBERATELY, WILLFULLY with FORETHOUGHT and inDEED malice.
In short, you don't count, not your beliefs, not your opinions and for damn sure not your BLACK struggle.
It is a fact of black life, that the larger society finds us invisible.
My point is that I believe as a black woman that gays who are black are faced with the same choice. We as women learned we were not valued by feminist and they did not truly care about how our lives had greater complexity. Which meant there was no since in touting their agenda as it was not worth the time or effort, when we were still going to be BLACK.
At the end of the day, race trumped gender. I think that black gays have not reached that point yet.
Which is to say when they talk about the feminist movement I disengage. Maybe, at some point black homosexuals will realize that as well. Because there is a lot of racism in the gay community just as their is in the society at large. Being black and gay is not important to the gay political agenda.
To me you are a black person and gay is something you do..but being black is who you are.
Blacks are never invisible to other blacks. No matter what their choices are. The black community embraces all. Always has.
Merry Christmas Lennyhate!!
I wish you a blessed and wonderful Christmas.
i call attention to the fact of gay blacks, because it seems as if their existence is invisible to many commenters on this site. i'm a black gay male, and obama's pick of rick warren was disturbing.
and a happy holidays to you, whiterosebuddy.
While the fight for feminists rights can impact my life. It does not impact my life as much as race which is ignored as part of the feminist movement. Ergo, I ignore the feminist movement. Knowing full well that whatever is granted to the white entitled female will be of benefit to me whether I invest my energy or not.
White entitlement makes me sit on the sidelines and not engage white feminists.
I focus my energy on causes that impact the black community as that has far greater impact on my life and brings far more significant change.
Warren is not disturbing to me because of all that he has done for the poor and AIDS. Warren and Obama have far more in common than not. More importantly what they have in common will uplift the poor and middle class. So, I will focus on that recognizing that Obama is coopting leadership from a very powerful group to use with his own Presidential power to create a better nation.
Obama opposes gay marriage just like Warren but Obama also supports a full repeal of DOMA and he supports civil unions and since he is the President.
I feel confident about his choices.
Rick Warren to be main speaker at Ebenezer on King Day
http://www.ajc.com/metro/content/metro/atlanta/...
BAM!!
Hallelujiah!!
The LGBT Community thought they could use the high turnout of black voters to get what they wanted and it didn't happen. They gambled and lost!
I support gay marriage, but my views and apparently yours are not in the mainstream, and it's certainly not going to gain any traction with these antics: targeting one preacher, the most popular preacher in the country, is by extension targeting the vast majority of Americans who concur and will now only view him more sympathetically. And do white Liberals and the LGBT community will want to take on the African American community? Is thar really a battle they want to lose--AGAIN?!
P.S.: Speaking of the Pope. I'm still waiting for white Liberals (and their negro spokespeople) to attack his comments from yesterday comparing homosexuality to global warming and delcaring it an assault on our humanity.
The same way gay activists are blaming black people for their lack of rights when it has always been straight white people putting these initiatives on the ballot?
LOL
Uh-uh, Town. You can't say that. It makes too much sense.
-So that he (Cohen) can "build" Obama up, only to tear him down later.
I'd be interested to know Cohen's position durirg the whole Wright episode myself.
Thank you.
I was also wondering when someone would connect the dots regarding Rev. Wright. (Drop the double standard banner here.) Seems as though one can be forgiven when bashing gays but when someone speaks the truth about racism and poverty in this country they immediately get labeled racist and out of touch.
Just like Bush & Cheney... Rick Warren gets the GASSS FACE!
I don't know how he intends to clean up all the other stuff that he said.
In any case, I understand that the Warren pick has made a lot of people upset with Obama and many of us hear you on this but I just feel that all the vocal frustration is not worth it (unless you heard that Warren intends to bash gays in the invocation…I haven’t heard that).
Could we put our energy to better use to educate people about issues instead of getting worked up and lashing out?
Donna Brazile told the Sunday morning round-table forum at ABC that after Aretha Franklin sings she would’ve forgotten all about Warren and …whatever he said in the invocation. I second that…I’m looking forward to hearing Aretha sing, too. Let's not forget that January 20 is all about America...God Bless America!!!
while you try to watch folks on the mall speaking in tongues
and JC himself appears!!!
ROTFLMAO!!!
lord you have me in tears...side aching
For the record, I think Warren is a fatuous gasbag who's been given far more importance than he deserves or warrants. But then, I think that about nearly EVERY preacher--especially if he has a megagoogogoloplexchurch. However, I see (or think I see) the strategy that Obama's employing here--keep your friends close, but keep the enemies closer. Of course, I could be wrong here. At any rate, Obama's not appointing the fool to a Cabinet level position, so Warren's invocation to the imaginary sky friend doesn't faze me one fucking way or the other. Hell, Paris Hilton could do it, and I wouldn't give a damn.
Wright is BLACK
CPL, you DO know it's this simple, don't you?
Cause a whole lot of them WHITE Holy Rollers said more #($* about America than Wright EVER DID....and unlike Wright...WEREN'T BEING TAKEN OUT OF CONTEXT.
People who never liked, or wanted Obama, and were probably afraid they would never get a chance to dog him again, are jumping up and down to tackle him. It's just the primary's all over again. They must be thrilled.
When DADT, and DOMA are gone, and when the Matthew Shepard act is passed, what are people on the left going to bitch about then?
What a load of crap.
Keep enrolling the young and minority peoples of this country and we can watch them in our rear view mirror.
You and your ilk are also taking it personally otherwise why would you keep telling everyone YOUR OPINIONS about your beliefs and whining about the moderators and not being able to disagree and MOVE on? Everyone does not share your interpretations. Are you now going to start telling people unless they believe what you interpret they are not following you God and that's the 'right' God? When poison is introduced you have to cut it off at th head. As I have pointed out numerous times and what you and yours REFUSE to address are the REAL issues destroying the Black community. You just want to be allowed to spread your dissent without being challenged. We all have the right to express ourselves so don't try to censor me either. I will continue to challenge the discourse and point out the animus and racism that comes from whites as well as blacks. Maybe if you weren't so busy throwing stones you'd be humble enough to learn something. I'm very critical of the gay rights industrial complex and white gays on my blog but I will not be silent when I come here and have to scroll through this nonsense. I will not be silent about the hyprocrisy of those who may look like me. If you really cared about others you'd be doing something abou THAT. But I don't expect any of you to actual do anything the bible says when you get so much joy tearing others down instead of building them up. That's a real ally. You are no ally. You are like the Pharasees who talked a lot about following God, judged people and picking salient things to focus but wouldn't listen to Jesus. But feel free to keep arguing and quoting. Because that's so much more important than living by example.
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My ilk? NO heartsandflowers I am not taking anything personally. I tell my opinions becasuse this is a discussion board. Why do you tell yours? I have not whined about any moderators are you mistaking me with another poster? I move on and agree to disagree when that is warranted.
Heartsandflowers, I certainly do not expect people to agree with THE interpretations posted and when they don't I expect them to address THE interpretations and not attack posters as you are doing. For whatever reason you are taking this personally and it is not directed at you. The topic is being discussed and debated. Your thoughts are as welcome as anyone elses' but what is unproductive is seemingly a need on your part to put folks in their place about their opinions you do not share. Why is that?
Why are you getting your shorts in a knot. Like you said no one has the same interpretaiton so why is it not good enough for you to simply state yours and accept that it TOO is not the only intrepretation. Why are you attacking people? If people all have the same interpretation there would be no debate...everyone would just simply agree.
I have not once said what anyone should do or believe. That is a personal choice between the individual and god. However, when religion is the topic and specifically Christianity the tenets of that religion are clear. You do not have to believe it, lots of folks don't. But when talking about the TOPIC of RELIGION you are taking it as if someone is telling YOU what to do when they are NOT!! Stating the precepts of a religion does not confer any moral superiority..that is all on you for thinking that. The bible though with regard to the christian faith is clear that homosexuality is a sin. That is what the bible says. You do not have to believe it. You do not have to adhere to it. But what you can't say is that someone is imposing their belief system on you by simply STATING what the christian faith says.
When a topic is debated it is not tearing down or building anyone up. It is simply stating the principles, concepts and philosophy of that religion or whatever the facts are on the topic at hand. It is not personal.
So, please don't take offense or beleive anyone is telling you how to live your life or thinking they are morally superior cause I do not and I suspect others don't either. As Justice noted...it is a DEBATE!!
I am not refusing to acknowledge any of the real issues confronting the black community. What I am doing is focusing on the issues and topics that CPL raised when she made her intial post. If you want to go on a different tangent and discuss an entirely different aspect, that's fine. Just don't accuse anyone of ignoring it because they chose to stay focused on the topic of the thread, which was Rick Warren, religion and homosexuality.
As far as the Pharissees remark. I will reiterate. I am not the topic of the thread. I am not judging anyone one. And I will not engage & bicker with you because I learned in middle school:
Small minds talk about people.
Average minds talk about events, and.
Great minds talk about ideas.
A debate is about ideas, not the messenger.
Merry Christmas Heartsandflowers...I hope that the seasons brings you many blessings and that your heart is filled with the joy and beauty of its reason.
Furthermore, you stated : "But I don't expect any of you to actual do anything the bible says when you get so much joy tearing others down instead of building them up."
You don't know me so don't act like you do! You don't know anything about my life, so just stop. This is not about Justice58's life! Stop making this thread about me!
I mentioned the Moderator CPL simply because she is author of the article!
But just so you know.~ I happen to like CPL. She can be a riot sometimes. I think she writes great articles. I may not agree with all of her point of view but she isn't disrespectful of other people's views & beliefs. You...Not so much!
I remember you from months ago at Field Negro Blog. You were disrespectful there so it does not surprise me that you'd be disrespectful here!
Toodles!
About Obama...
From someone who cam surround himself with detractors...
My supporting the President-Elect, despite his position on gay marriage, is the definition of disagreeing without being disagreeable. That said, President-Elect Obama is not above reproach.
My supporting Obama, despite his views on gay marriage, is the definition of disagreeing without being disagreeable. That said, the president-elect is not above reproach.
Do you not understand the definition of debate? What is so hard to understand...."Drop those links. Engage in debate. Give us trivia and gossip too".
Debate: a discussion, as of a public question in an assembly, involving opposing viewpoints! Duh!
You don't have to respond to my posts, you can ignore them and keep it moving. You've accused WRB & I of trying to silence you....nice try tho..but you're the one that is guilty of that. I'm on to you. I am debating & discussing whatever issue is presented on each particular thread. If you can't handle debate...then don't engage!
For the record...I wouldn't waste my energy crawling your profile! You really have some serious issues!
I was saying this from last week, last week....it is te reason why I am mad in the first place.
Somebody needs to tell me what Jeremiah Wright said at the NPC that was offensive!!!
Somebody do it because nobody has done it yet which makes those who say it worse than those who call him a racist and cannot back him up.
What got people upset was his defiant demeanor....thats it because he said nothing different than he did in the Moyers interview in regards to Obama being a politican.
Mabye he wanted to be thrown under the bus. I think Glen Ford said it best, he drew a line in the sand. Obama likes to have his cake and eat it too and Wright was saying not with me. He refused to play politics....I am happy because I am tired of everyone playing politics. I do not play politics either. I was removed from the Obama campaign office when the whole thing started in March because I dared stand up for the man. All the white people were saying that Obama was going to teach black people that race is no longer an issue. Again, my ass!
As for the "More Perfect Union Speech" any speech on race that makes white people comfy is not a real speech on race.
He basically framed Wright as backwards and stuck in the past. Please, my ass. That was offensive. That is the only reason why white people were okay with it. He also justified white resentment which is really white racism because resentment is reactionary.
Black people, be stupid and jump on the bandwagon but don't be mad when you get pushed off next!
I also am shocked that people failed to hear or even understand the actual speech he made at that event. It was a great speech about the black church, social gospel, change and transformation. I honestly think that it either went over people's heads or people were not home to see it and saw what the media wanted to show the massed because if people actually knew what he was talking about, they may have become to enlightened.
Whatever. We have a long history of throwing our leaders under the bus when whites denounce them. The same thing happened to MLK at te end of his life. People have selective memory but I do not give a damn,
You cannot tell me that as a HIllary supporter, Reynolds would agree with all that Wright said.
Wright was already tired after the round of interviews on Bill Moyers' show and elsewhere. But when he started talking really rad, and of having the Fruit of Islam squiring him around, that was it. The media had more than a few minutes of time to try to sink Obama. Plus, I heard he was paid for this appearance, although not by the NPC. You would think the old man would see how he was going to be used. It was like he didn't give a shyt anymore and was flipping the bird at Obama. It was a stupid move, but I can well understand the tit for tat going on. That's when Obama got permission, from this appearance, to cut him off completely.
This is not to say that Obama's hands are clean either, as evidenced by his muzzling the minister earlier.
Don't get me wrong. I liked some of what Wright had to say, not all. I saw the Moyers interview, and I thought that he had acquitted himself well. But when I saw the soundbites from the NPC speech, I was appalled. I knew Obama had been given permission to cut him off completely as a costly liability, something that I don't think he really wanted to do.
In some ways, this is another reason why Jesse Jackson could not be asked to be part of the Inaugural. Not for being the first black male Democrat to run for the White House. Not for saying stuff at the right time, but for saying stuff at the wrong time (and doing stuff at the wrong time), and most recently, for being overheard saying he wanted to cut Obama's nuts off.
In other words, I agree: Wright dug his own grave in not being invited. If he had kept counsel after Obama's speech, he would be there, not Warren. I believe that. Wright also ministered to black gays and lesbians in the UCC, a church that is gay-friendly. There wouldn't be half the upset right now if this integral relationship had endured.
With all due respect, your thinking and perceptions about Wright are far outside mainstream.
As for what Wright said at the NPC, it was not what he said , it was how he said it. Wright is stuck in another era when it comes to race relations. While I can empathize with that and understand how his times shaped him, we have to move forward and working from Wright's paradigm on race relations is not progressive.
Wright had a no interview policy for over a year.
When he was publicly demonized, he came out over a month later to introduce himself and his ideology to the public which was obviously not well accepted. The only mistake he made was even bothering to talk to an ignorant American media and public who is addicted to propaganda and oversimplification.
and i have yet to read a single word he has said that is a lie
in fact
he warned us gays that obama was merely a callous and ruthless politico
no more
no less
this horrid choice of warren is indefensible and proof of that hard fact!!!
this is proof that gaybashing trumps racism
what rev w. said offended whites
so he was silenced
but warren is a rabid vulgar gaybashing
and unlike taboo racism, gaybashing is patriotic sport
so even obama is only pumping up warren's homohating volume!!!!
shame!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
see more at
OUTLOOK
http://aliciabanks.blogspot.com
Don't fault Barack for Rick Warren speaking at Ebenezer on MLK Day. Bernice King (MLK's Daughter) probably invited him since she too is so offended by gay marriage.
As a matter of fact, Bernice King and Eddie Long(New Birth) were so "afraid" of gay marriage, that they led a march in downtown Atlanta about the subject and...dayum near proclaimed that they were voting for George W. Bush because of it...(imho, selling(sold) their souls to Satan himself).
That's partly why when I see people on JJP lolly-gagging about Caroline Kennedy, I only have to think about Bernice King and MLK III. If you follow the logic of political dynasties and "royal bloodlines," then half the people on JJP should be offended that MLKIII won't be taking the oath on Jan 20th.
Oh my bad. Thanks Shazza. I'm gonna have to check out Clay Cane. I just recently got hip to the Field Negro. So, i'm playing catch up.
As for Alicia, I'll leave you with these immortal words from that New Jack Singer Al B. Sure:
Better Get Off On Your Own (Girl)
You Better Get Off On Your Own
All Alone Girl, Alone Girl
Girl, girl, girl.
LMAO! WTF? Am I on Daily Kos?
Now tell me where Gay citizens (the White LGBT community especially) were dealt the same way.......oh, I didn't think so. Matter of factly most are bitching now that they wish they could take back that vote because of an invocation invite...and not an actual policy decision.
Now one is saying gaybashing trumps anything....but what I do know is that through the pain of the passage of Prop 8, racism and scapegoating of Black people, and blaming Obama for the passage itself DID occur..... and all the while, Ken Starr is still coming to take more rights away while the masses is distracted.
BTW, Rick Warren is busy scrubbing his website of anti-gay language....maybe there will be a bright side after all.