Jack and Jill Politics - Latest Comments in With Friends Like These……

Re: With Friends Like These……

andy — Sun, 04 Jan 2009 12:43:10 -0000

Another example of Friendly fire sometimes known as blue on blue? Leaving people black and blue. It may have helped to mobilise the black and hispanic vote but I doubt if the new yorker was being that politically astute.

Re: With Friends Like These……

Evelin Log — Sun, 30 Nov 2008 12:42:53 -0000

This is really wonderful caricature.

Re: With Friends Like These……

Anderkoo — Tue, 15 Jul 2008 15:20:11 -0000

kenyaw, I did see this operating in the opposite direction while I was canvassing for Obama in North Philly: one man out of his apartment to show me a printout of an email that he had receiving that laid out some of the worst claims about the Clintons, including their responsibility for the death of Vince Foster. I wasn't going to argue with him, but I was appalled nonetheless.

What was particularly interesting to me about the primary in S.C. was how much of the literature was devoted to demonstrating that (a) Barack is black; (b) Michelle is darker-skinned; and (c) they are both Christian. I guess I am surprised that, despite all this grassroots outreach, that at least in the black community there's still suspicions, but then again it's probably more xenophobia (Obama's time spent out of the USA) than racism...

Re: With Friends Like These……

kenyaw — Tue, 15 Jul 2008 14:43:54 -0000

Anderkoo,
“Or it can be read as more evidence of the alliance between limousine liberals (New Yorker readers) and black America against "hard-working Americans, white Americans."

I cannot agree with that angle.
Do you not realize the number of black people especially here in more rural areas that believe those same rumors?
The average American is not so politically well informed and definitely not reading and writing on blogs. All they get is the break room version of the news, get home, and spread that to everyone they know. You would be shocked by all of the black people that really think that Obama is a Muslim. It shocked me that even more believe that was reason enough for them (the black people) not to vote for him over Hillary.

Re: With Friends Like These……

Anderkoo — Tue, 15 Jul 2008 10:57:07 -0000

... Or it can be read as more evidence of the alliance between limousine liberals (New Yorker readers) and black America against "hard-working Americans, white Americans."

There's no question in my mind that this cover makes fun of what it perceives to be stupid white Americans.

I also have little doubt that those Americans targeted by this cover are not so stupid as to not realize they're being caricatured and looked down upon by the cultural elite.

I don't see this primarily as a conflict between liberal white and black America (although because the artist wasn't looking in that direction, I think he f'ed up). It's an intramural battle between educated and lower-class white America, and it doesn't look too good from that angle either.

Re: With Friends Like These……

Anderkoo — Tue, 15 Jul 2008 10:52:11 -0000

The cartoon is attempting to satirize Americans who believe that Obama is a Muslim flag-burning terrorist-in-sheep's clothing. The satirical parentheses is outside the frame, as it were; thus it assumes a certain sophistication of the viewer to "get" it. I wonder if a big part of our debate here is whether average Americans -- of whatever race, Obama supporter or not -- do. It seems to me from these responses that the answer is "no."

Re: With Friends Like These……

Anderkoo — Tue, 15 Jul 2008 10:49:07 -0000

"Contempt" feels good, but it does nothing to move this country forward. Personally, I believe that trying to understand why a segment of the population supported Bush in 2004 is critical to moving forward in 2008. Not condemn; understand. It is, IMHO, the essence of what Obama himself stands for.

I think that most of the Americans who say that Obama is Muslim don't really believe he's Muslim, but they use that idea as shorthand for something else -- maybe for racism, maybe for xenophobia, maybe just plain fear of change. Getting to the root of that belief, rather than just making fun of it, seems much more productive to me.

Re: With Friends Like These……

CraigHickman — Tue, 15 Jul 2008 09:46:15 -0000

Indeed. I remain amazed that Bush at some point said he wasn't worried about catching bin Laden.

I used to think bin Laden was in East Boston with Dick Cheney. ;)

Re: With Friends Like These……

Sombody_took_my_username — Tue, 15 Jul 2008 09:36:58 -0000

Maybe....I think the last thing he put out was an audio, not a video as I said. Anyway, I'm suspicious o audio only.

I'm more suspicious of Bush being distracted from catching this supposed mastermind of 9/11. It's chilling how they've managed to conflate Iraq and 9/11, substituting Iraq for bin Laden without any national outcry. If god supposedly told Bush to invade, then surely Muslims are justified in thinking it a "Crusade".

America demonized, then invaded a nation, and Murdered the leaders two sons without any war crimes trial. It is extraordinarily chilling.

Re: With Friends Like These……

CraigHickman — Tue, 15 Jul 2008 09:23:28 -0000

After the campaign she ran, putting him on the ticket would have been a way to "ensure" the Black vote around the nation and try to win Tennessee.

Re: With Friends Like These……

CraigHickman — Tue, 15 Jul 2008 09:19:32 -0000

I don't expect that until October, just like in 2004.

Does anybody think he's probably dead?

Re: With Friends Like These……

grapesoda — Tue, 15 Jul 2008 09:07:24 -0000

Heres why I think this is a good thing:

They New Yorker brings all the worse parts of the Obama myths together and puts it out there on a National Forum, knowing full well people are gonna holla over it, but theres discussion there and generally things get resolved

This is the summertime and theres time to discuss all these things. The fact that Obama is in this position to begin can hopefully simmer some people down, but I cannot back any politician before I make sure my Constitution is intact, I dont care what color he is.

Im not gonna fight Obama's fights for him--this is the job, people, he asked for this.

These things arent true and by bringing them all up at once you can lump all of these arguments into "The Cartoon Argument" and move forward--the whole point of it being a cartoon means youll the people who are dumb enough to think its true and you can work on them.

Because I refuse to even discuss these topics in polite company and refute the facts when I see or hear them--theres no more power to this issue.

This is what we call a "head fake"/

Re: With Friends Like These……

pdid — Tue, 15 Jul 2008 07:41:40 -0000

Agree with Jelana, it would be one thing if the cover included Rush Limbaugh or Sean Hannity attempting to paint a picture of the Obamas as radicals. However, the victims are the only ones that are satirized. It would be sort of like poking fun at anti-semites by putting out a cartoon only full of all anti-semetic images. We all know this would not be acceptable "satire."

In response to grapesoda I don't think the issue is the Obama's can't be lampooned in cartoons. You are right, its the price of public service. However, political cartoons are aimed at making a funny point based on truth. Bill Clinton was lampooned as a philanderer because he was guilty of it. The Obamas in this case are being lampooned, however innocently as claimed by the New Yorker, in images that are not true.

Re: With Friends Like These……

grapesoda — Tue, 15 Jul 2008 07:07:20 -0000

Grow up. Bush has been made to look like a monkey for 8 years in practically every political cartoon. The Clintons took it on the chin as did every other leader on the history of this country.

Bill Clinton had a penis for a nose in numerous cartoons.

Just stop it--its the price of being number one. To act like its anything else is immature and ignorant.

Re: With Friends Like These……

KatEyez — Tue, 15 Jul 2008 05:04:01 -0000

You hit the nail on the head.

It is only from a place of white privilege that one can appreciate this "satire". One can be titillated by the controversy because the racism the cover is trying to lampoon is so far removed from what they have to deal with on a daily basis.

For those of us who actually have the deal with the consequences of the stereotyping that the cover flaunts, it ain't so funny.

Re: With Friends Like These……

KatEyez — Tue, 15 Jul 2008 04:54:27 -0000

"They can end up screwing you harder than the bigots, because they haven't examined how much they contribute to the vile situation as well. Their hands aren't clean."

Word!

Re: With Friends Like These……

pjamma — Tue, 15 Jul 2008 00:29:41 -0000

So, true. They missed the mark big time.

Re: With Friends Like These……

GreenLadyHere — Mon, 14 Jul 2008 23:28:35 -0000

B1: I second that motion!

Re: With Friends Like These……

Sombody_took_my_username — Mon, 14 Jul 2008 23:25:08 -0000

Indeed. :) It affirms prejudice...no matter what angle you look from.

Re: With Friends Like These……

jelana — Mon, 14 Jul 2008 23:18:13 -0000

It is not funny because you don't satirize the victims of the attacks. It would have been satire if they had actually created a cartoon attacking the perpetrators of the smears.
When Bush does or says something stupid, they satirize Bush, they don't satirize his victims. This is completely azz backwards.

Re: With Friends Like These……

99PercentSure — Mon, 14 Jul 2008 23:13:28 -0000

The article is very good,

Re: With Friends Like These……

B1bomber82 — Mon, 14 Jul 2008 23:01:53 -0000

Some of you all kill me. You run around trying to act like this was just satire but ask your selves, has the New Yorker ever ran satire like that about McCain and his wife?? Or how about when Lieberman was running, did they show him with a yarmulke and someone from Israel shooting at Palestinians?? NOPE. Or maybe show Giuliani in some mobster garb.. NOPE.. but of course show the Obamas like that.. it just satire!!!

Re: With Friends Like These……

Slave Revolt — Mon, 14 Jul 2008 22:34:56 -0000

msmartin, it means that the republican realizes that Obama is going to win--and that pointing up the racialized, delusional fears of the far rightwing makes much of the republican base of supporters look silly.

Re: With Friends Like These……

msmartin — Mon, 14 Jul 2008 22:22:18 -0000

James Carville is on 360 defending the cover as satire against a Republican who thinks it wasn't funny. What's that all about?

Re: With Friends Like These……

msmartin — Mon, 14 Jul 2008 22:22:18 -0000

James Carville is on 360 defending the cover as satire against a Republican who thinks it wasn't funny. What's that all about?